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"Mohammad Amir is the most skilful bowler I've faced" : Steve Smith

Rana

Rana

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So, I was strolling through Steven Smith’s Instagram Q&A story today. Someone asked him: “Which fast bowler do you find most difficult to face?”. To which he replied: “Mohammad Amir I think is the most skilful I faced”.

So 2 of the greatest batsmen of our age confirm that Amir is the best bowler they have faced in their career. You could argue that Kohli has a tendency of being nice and respectful to Pakistan fans, but Steve Smith really has no reason to be diplomatic in his random response on Instagram. There has to be some very serious reality to this, although this is a man who has faced some serious bowlers such as Boult, Bumrah, Archer, Rabada, Steyn, Anderson.

It has to be reiterated that the two greatest batsmen of our age, who will be remembered for decades to come have confirmed on seperate occasions that Mohammad Amir is the best bowler they have faced. So do we at times underestimate the importance, quality of Mohammad Amir the bowler as Pakistan fans?
 
The problem with Mohammad Amir is that his record strictly reminds us of one of India's talented left arm swing bowler during the 2000s, Irfan Pathan.

Tests stats:-

Irfan Pathan 29 test, 100 wickets, Avg 31.5
Mohammad Amir 36 test, 119 wickets, Avg 30.5

ODI stats:-

Irfan Pathan 120 ODIs, 172 wickets, Avg 29.5
Mohammad Amir 61 ODIs, 81 wickets, Avg 29.5


Adding to this, Pathan was a competent batsmen with an average of 31 in tests and 23 in ODIs. So, while Amir ended up with 19 more test wickets than Pathan at slightly better average, he is still not halfway the number of wickets that Irfan has taken in ODIs minus the batting.

It does tell us that how significantly Mohammad Amir is exploiting his skills for the worse.
 
With his current form and pace, he's not.

In 2009, under swing-friendly conditions, he definitely was the 2nd best (THE BEST was Asif).

He's lost a lot of pace, and movement too. Still a very good option for T20s and ODIs, specially in ICC tournaments. Accurate.
 
I2UYVrA.png
 
Surprised that Smith said that when he has played him well for the most part.

I don't think Amir is the most skilled bowler in the world.
 
Ab Fan said:
The problem with Mohammad Amir is that his record strictly reminds us of one of India's talented left arm swing bowler during the 2000s, Irfan Pathan.

Tests stats:-

Irfan Pathan 29 test, 100 wickets, Avg 31.5
Mohammad Amir 36 test, 119 wickets, Avg 30.5

Adding to this, Pathan was a competent batsmen with an average of 31 in tests and 23 in ODIs. So, while Amir ended up with 19 more test wickets than Pathan at slightly better average, he is still not halfway the number of wickets that Irfan has taken in ODIs minus the batting.

It does tell us that how significantly Mohammad Amir is exploiting his skills for the worse.
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stats can be very deceiving, as far as their test careers go, irfan padded against zim and bang, amir never played against them in tests. against top 8 amir has 114 wickets at 31 in tests, irfan has 60 wickets at 45.

amir also had 5 years out of the game, if anyone in thinks coming back after not playing any level of the sport for 5 years, its unprecedented.

im not amir fan after he turned his back on the test team, but he was a far superior bowlers to irfan in tests. odis amir has gone missing for long periods in his career so hes definitely under achieved.
 
Hasan123 said:
Surprised that Smith said that when he has played him well for the most part.

I don't think Amir is the most skilled bowler in the world.
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Who cares what we think? Watching him on TV and facing him in real life are two different things. And two of the greatest batsmen in history have confirmed that he is the best they have faced.
 
Rana said:
Who cares what we think? Watching him on TV and facing him in real life are two different things. And two of the greatest batsmen in history have confirmed that he is the best they have faced.
Click to expand...


Doesn't mean I need to agree with it.

If Smith said Bumrah was the most skilled bowler you would be saying he wants an IPL contract. :kp
 
Smith played against Amir in that golden summer of 2010 for Amir. Maybe that is in his mind a lot.
 
Hasan123 said:
Doesn't mean I need to agree with it.

If Smith said Bumrah was the most skilled bowler you would be saying he wants an IPL contract. :kp
Click to expand...
If an Australian praises an Indian just for the sake of it...I know where it’s coming from
 
Rana said:
If an Australian praises an Indian just for the sake of it...I know where it’s coming from
Click to expand...

See what I mean. So don't tell me my opinion doesn't matter when you think every opinion has an ulterior motive behind it.
 
Hasan123 said:
See what I mean. So don't tell me my opinion doesn't matter when you think every opinion has an ulterior motive behind it.
Click to expand...

Yeah but who are you though... we are talking about Steve Smith v You
 
Rana said:
Yeah but who are you though... we are talking about Steve Smith v You
Click to expand...

But if it was an Indian player it would be about money. So who are you?

He praised KL Rahul, someone who is mocked on this forum. So don't wanna see you every say anything critical of KL Rahul now. :yk2
 
Steven Smith has praised Ravindra Jadeja very recently as well and called him one of the toughest bowlers in subcontinent to face.
 
Ab Fan said:
Steven Smith has praised Ravindra Jadeja very recently as well and called him one of the toughest bowlers in subcontinent to face.
Click to expand...

He praised Herath as well,
He said"You’ve really got to earn your runs against Herath. He hardly ever gives you a loose ball so you have to be right on top of your game all the time. Plus, he admits that he often doesn’t know how much the ball is going to turn – so if he doesn’t know, the batsman doesn’t have much chance"
 
Ab Fan said:
Steven Smith has praised Ravindra Jadeja very recently as well and called him one of the toughest bowlers in subcontinent to face.
Click to expand...

That’s actually true. The guy turns it Square on rank turners!
 
I think a lot of people are missing the point here...they are bringing in Smith’s appraisals of other, possibly underrated cricketers. But the point I see in all of this is Kohli also saying the same thing about Amir. Amir isn’t a 150kmh seamer. He isn’t the tallest or strongest such as Starc, Rabada and Archer. But the man has now been officially verified by 2 ATG’s in this current era.

Surely Amir is ATG even if he ends up with a below par record?
 
I think Smith still has not forgotton the unplayable ball he received first up from Aamir at Headingley 2010.
 
Fellow players and coaches who've worked with Amir have said he's got a good bowling brain. However it's fair to say he steps up for the big occasions, but he has gone missing several times in humdrum bilateral series where it seems the motivation isn't there.
 
A fit and motivated Amir is a top bowler. He can swing the ball both ways (late) with virtually the same action. He also has the intelligence to set batsmen up.

Plus, the opinion of two all-time great batsmen like Kohli and Smith holds considerable weight.

It is indeed a tragedy for Pakistan that the 5 year ban has pretty much killed the fire in his belly and he is clearly not interested in playing international cricket and becoming a legendary cricketer.
 
Skilful, probably. But at the trundle pace he bowls nowadays, he is not a consistent threat . Grunts while bowling 132 kph :))
 
Bhuvi is definitely a much better bowler than amir , dunno why your mocking him Rana. Bhuvi is a disciplined and a hard working bowler who gives it all for the team.

What do you think [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] ?
 
HappyWarsFan said:
Bhuvi is definitely a much better bowler than amir , dunno why your mocking him Rana. Bhuvi is a disciplined and a hard working bowler who gives it all for the team.

What do you think [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] ?
Click to expand...

Indians produced one bowler in its 5000 year history who could bowl 6 deliveries in a row above 86mph, and they now want to give it large about trundling :)) :))
 
Mueez said:
Lol about Bhuvi being better than Amir :)))
Click to expand...

It's true he is. Amir is more skillful and talented, by a long shot. But that's not the only thing. You need to be disciplined and put the hard yards in. While amir was being sh*t in SA a year ago bhuvi won a test match for India with his useful bowling and batting. And he's consistent at the very least. Not spectacular but he delivers on a regular basis and that's matters, not tailunt. I'd much rather have him bowl for Pakistan than Amir.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
Bhuvi is definitely a much better bowler than amir , dunno why your mocking him Rana. Bhuvi is a disciplined and a hard working bowler who gives it all for the team.

What do you think [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] ?
Click to expand...

Amir is a much better bowler than him but Bhuvneshwar has benefited from a better support system and the fact that he plays for a vastly superior team.

Amir could have been something special under BCCI and Kohli’s captaincy. He would have been fit and motivated. Some players are hard to motivate and that cannot happen when they are surrounded with mediocrity.

Most Pakistani players tend to be unaware of where they stand as a team. If you ask someone like Babar, Sarfraz, Azhar, Shafiq etc. they would probably genuinely believe that we are a very talented team, but I think Amir is a very sharp person who deep down is fully aware of how terrible we actually are.

It is a major reason why he no longer has the motivation to play for Pakistan.
 
No one ever hypes bhuvi for anything. It for what it's worth Bhuvi averages 26 with the ball while the fixer/quitter averages 30. This , despite, the fact that Bhuvi is supposedly more of a trundler and less skilled :)
 
HappyWarsFan said:
It's true he is. Amir is more skillful and talented, by a long shot. But that's not the only thing. You need to be disciplined and put the hard yards in. While amir was being sh*t in SA a year ago bhuvi won a test match for India with his useful bowling and batting. And he's consistent at the very least. Not spectacular but he delivers on a regular basis and that's matters, not tailunt. I'd much rather have him bowl for Pakistan than Amir.
Click to expand...

You are right even Shaheen bowled much better than Aamir in SA.
 
Mohammad Amir is not going to be a Pakistani ATG bowler but he is still a PAPA of all Indian bowlers produced til date!

No matter how much it hurts Indians
 
Quality rankings

Wasim
Asif
Amir
Waqar
Akhtar
Imran

Daylight

Possibly an Indian bowler who plays long enough with decent stats

Umar Gul
Aqib Javed
 
Has Amir ever gotten smith out besides that one ODI in 2017? Most overrated bowler ever
 
Ab Fan said:
The problem with Mohammad Amir is that his record strictly reminds us of one of India's talented left arm swing bowler during the 2000s, Irfan Pathan.

Tests stats:-

Irfan Pathan 29 test, 100 wickets, Avg 31.5
Mohammad Amir 36 test, 119 wickets, Avg 30.5

ODI stats:-

Irfan Pathan 120 ODIs, 172 wickets, Avg 29.5
Mohammad Amir 61 ODIs, 81 wickets, Avg 29.5


Adding to this, Pathan was a competent batsmen with an average of 31 in tests and 23 in ODIs. So, while Amir ended up with 19 more test wickets than Pathan at slightly better average, he is still not halfway the number of wickets that Irfan has taken in ODIs minus the batting.

It does tell us that how significantly Mohammad Amir is exploiting his skills for the worse.
Click to expand...
Good post and a clever comparison.

I wonder what Amir’s stats would have been, had he not lost 5 years from his peak.
 
as we saw in the CT final and on a couple of other occasions, amir can be lethal when he gets in-swing. post comeback however, he has not been able to generate movement on a consistent basis which has obviously made him much less effective. dropped catches have not helped but poor fielding is a factor most pakistani bowlers have had to contend with. as to why he cant get swing, that's a big mystery to me. may be the ball that is being used is a factor. or may be he simply has not mastered skill set. watching him from afar, he seems to lack a bit of energy and as result he may not put in the hard yards. perhaps he has made enough money from t-20 circuit and is happy with what he has achieved. with the sudden appearance of a number of bowlers with a lot of potential, imv, pak should not be relying on him for the long-term and resources are better invested elsewhere.

i also think bowlers in general are getting less movement which results in cricket being dominated by batting which is boring. in this environment, even bowler like abbas becomes effective because batsmen are not used to the challenge. cant recall an established batsman like warner failing so spectacularly in a recent ashes series because conditions slightly favoured bowling. cant also see someone like abbas being a part of international scene ten years back. one thing we can be sure off is that icc will fail to do the right thing.
 
Mamoon said:
A fit and motivated Amir is a top bowler. He can swing the ball both ways (late) with virtually the same action. He also has the intelligence to set batsmen up.

Plus, the opinion of two all-time great batsmen like Kohli and Smith holds considerable weight.

It is indeed a tragedy for Pakistan that the 5 year ban has pretty much killed the fire in his belly and he is clearly not interested in playing international cricket and becoming a legendary cricketer.
Click to expand...

just goes with the theory that he switches off when the occasion is not big.

Averages 21 & 23 in WC and CTs & 35 in ODIs outside ICC events
 
He is definitely referring to pre-ban Amir, who was extraordinarily talented.

Post-ban Amir lost his ability to move the ball consistently and the outswinger, so not as skilful.
 
What a bowler. I am big fan of Amir :amir2

want to see one more Kohli vs Amir match
 
Barragan said:
He is definitely referring to pre-ban Amir, who was extraordinarily talented.

Post-ban Amir lost his ability to move the ball consistently and the outswinger, so not as skilful.
Click to expand...

Highly doubt that.

He played 0 ODI matches and 2 Test matches vs Amir pre-ban

Majority of his Smith's games vs Amir have come post-ban

Amir's numbers may not be great but there is no doubt he has still shown to be a skilful bowler if inconsistent.
 
Rana said:
Indians produced one bowler in its 5000 year history who could bowl 6 deliveries in a row above 86mph, and they now want to give it large about trundling :)) :))
Click to expand...

And an ATG team with so called shooperstars continues to lose all matches in WC against those trundlers, lol
 
Rana said:
Quality rankings

Wasim
Asif
Amir
Waqar
Akhtar
Imran

Daylight

Possibly an Indian bowler who plays long enough with decent stats

Umar Gul
Aqib Javed
Click to expand...

Still couldn’t do jack against Ind in WCs, whats the point?
 
Let’s put some more context into this,

-Steven Smith didn’t make this statement during a PSL launch event or during a Pak v Australia match interview to a Pakistani journalist. This wasn’t him being nice to Pakistani fans. He made it at the comfort of his living room coach, a casual statement during his own personal time.

-Steven Smith himself was handling the Instagram account rather his account being handled by a pr team manager.

So Smith genuinely believes in this. Maybe his honesty is going to cost him his life when he plays IPL in the year 2021
 
Hitman said:
He wasn’t praising Pakistani bowlers, he was putting down Indian bowlers.
Click to expand...

If you are talking about me, then read the comments above. It was one of your guys who started it with the trundler/phase/ fixer jibes. I was just showing him the mirror.
 
Rana said:
Let’s put some more context into this,

-Steven Smith didn’t make this statement during a PSL launch event or during a Pak v Australia match interview to a Pakistani journalist. This wasn’t him being nice to Pakistani fans. He made it at the comfort of his living room coach, a casual statement during his own personal time.

-Steven Smith himself was handling the Instagram account rather his account being handled by a pr team manager.

So Smith genuinely believes in this. Maybe his honesty is going to cost him his life when he plays IPL in the year 2021
Click to expand...

It doesnt matter what Smith's background is. He made a remark about Amir based on his experience. Thats it.
 
Rana said:
If you are talking about me, then read the comments above. It was one of your guys who started it with the trundler/phase/ fixer jibes. I was just showing him the mirror.
Click to expand...

Which mirror are you speaking of? Your guy is a convicted match fixer. There is no way you or anyone else who can show him the mirror in that regard because it doesn’t exist.
 
Hitman said:
Which mirror are you speaking of? Your guy is a convicted match fixer. There is no way you or anyone else who can show him the mirror in that regards because it doesn’t exist.
Click to expand...

Oh and your guys have embraced convicted cheats, plus paid them handsomely in rupees. David Warner is the captain of Hyderabad! Where is your moral high ground then??
 
Plenty of large hearted players have done carried an average team on their shoulders - Kapil Dev, Hadlee, Lara, Murali, Andy Flower all fought heroically and largely alone in batting or bowling for years.

But Amir has decided not to be that man. End of.
 
Corridor of Uncertainty said:
Plenty of large hearted players have done carried an average team on their shoulders - Kapil Dev, Hadlee, Lara, Murali, Andy Flower all fought heroically and largely alone in batting or bowling for years.

But Amir has decided not to be that man. End of.
Click to expand...

When has Amir walked away for Pakistan in ODI where we need him more than he needs us?
 
Rana said:
Oh and your guys have embraced convicted cheats, plus paid them handsomely in rupees. David Warner is the captain of Hyderabad! Where is your moral high ground then??
Click to expand...

Where have you seen an Indian cricketer convicted of fixing being welcomed back to the team with open arms?
 
An in form amir is the most deadly pacer in the world. Great to watch.
But he is highly inconsistent and so he is not even amongst the top 5 odi bowler, in tests he has achieved literally nothing

As for indian bowlers Bhuvi is definitely better in tests (record says so), shami is in a tier above him and bumrah is on a completely different level.
 
I guess amir r cronje r comparable as bowlers. Their generation's best batsmen respectively rated them as the most difficult bowler to face.
 
Skilful, clever, very good, match-winner at times.

However can a guy who only played 36 Tests be classed a great bowler?
 
Hitman said:
Where have you seen an Indian cricketer convicted of fixing being welcomed back to the team with open arms?
Click to expand...

Hahahahaha so was it not Kohli urging Indian fans to clap Smith during the wc game??
 
So Amir and Asif, both verified by the most skilled batsmen of their generations.

What a travesty.

And Butt would have been great in Tours to Australia.
 
Rohan said:
Still couldn’t do jack against Ind in WCs, whats the point?
Click to expand...

Recently we had Sohail Khan and Wahab Riaz step up and take 5fers. They are not even in the top 10 in the history of gun Pakistani fast bowlers. Wahab might push for a spot but Sohail khan no way. And Amir did plenty of damage in the CT 2017 wc to India, plus he didn’t bowl too badly in the World Cup game.
 
Don't know why certain posters are getting overly defensive . Aamir is currently a trundler and anyone objective can see that . :)
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Don't know why certain posters are getting overly defensive . Aamir is currently a trundler and anyone objective can see that . :)
Click to expand...

How is 140kph trundling? I’d imagine you wetting your pants if you have to face that pace
 
Still a class act is Amir, even just watching his delivery style - one of the few bowlers who can examine a batter’s technique fully, just not as often as once could have been.

It’s a shame, though is it what it is, that the five years out have seen him lose a few Ks rather than gain - often looks jaded.

A tip off to all our bowlers in last decade though, the UAE is not an easy place for quicks - the pitch, limited crowds. Pleased for Shaheen and Co that cricket has returned to Pakistan.
 
So skillful that he had 3 wickets in 14 ODI's before the world cup. The reality is the opposition just want Pakistan to pick such an ineffective past it over rated bowler.
 
Rana said:
Recently we had Sohail Khan and Wahab Riaz step up and take 5fers. They are not even in the top 10 in the history of gun Pakistani fast bowlers. Wahab might push for a spot but Sohail khan no way. And Amir did plenty of damage in the CT 2017 wc to India, plus he didn’t bowl too badly in the World Cup game.
Click to expand...

Whats the point of having shooperstar bowling attack if the end result (WC) is ahm ahm?
 
Amir has always been skillful and on his day he is a match winner. Its a shame what happened because he could have been a legend in all formats for Pakistan.
 
I was mocked last week for saying that Amir has all the skills of Wasim Akram, but suffers from being 4 inches shorter.

I have watched him trouble Australia more than anyone else for years.

Yes, he did it in England in 2010 with a Dukes ball. But in 2016-17 he was excellent at the Gabba (4-97 and 1-37) and only lost steam completely in the next 2 matches because the MCG Test was played on a dead wicket and he only had Sohail Khan and Wahab for support, while Yasir Shah bled runs at an alarming rate.

It was inept captaincy by Misbah which ruined Amir's performances by overbowling him in a 3 man attack which led to the current situation in which he is viewed as a rather mediocre bowler. But the reality is different.

Amir under Misbah
England: 12 wickets at 42.41
West Indies in the UAE: 6 wickets at 38.50
New Zealand: 7 wickets at 28.57
Australia: 5 wickets at 61.60
West Indies: 13 wickets at 17.46

Amir under Sarfraz
Sri Lanka in the UAE: 1 wicket at 164
Ireland: 5 wickets at 14.40
England: 7 wickets at 21.28
South Africa: 12 wickets at 23.58

If you remove the UAE Tests - I'm the first to say that he isn't suited to bowling there - there is clear evidence that Amir was a world class bowler outside Asia when his workload was managed by being part of a 4-man pace attack, but that playing him as part of a 3-man pace attack did not work, especially with Yasir Shah tending to leak so many runs in those matches.
 
Saj said:
Skillful, clever, very good, match-winner at times.

However can a guy who only played 36 Tests be classed a great bowler?
Click to expand...

Yup, ultimately all the great bowlers we reminisce of old have great Test match figures to back up the white ball stuff.
No one is remembered as a great without the 5 day toil.
 
As Junaids has said, he needs proper management, but he also needs to have some motivation himself. His lack of motivation in bilateral series and whatnot has been the main cause of his disappointing performance.
 
I think Mohammad Amir is just a Horses For Courses bowler. He is a world class weapon with the white ball and in Tests in SENA, especially with a Dukes Ball or Pink Ball.

But he is a liability on grassless slow tracks in Asia.

Why is this a problem? Ashwin and Jadeja are completely useless outside Asia, but that doesn't mean that you don't pick them at home.

Similarly, Josh Hazlewood averages 35.37 after 8 Tests in Asia, with only 16 wickets, but that doesn't mean that you wouldn't pick him in Australia or England.

Mohammad Amir is just a bowler whose workload needs to be carefully managed. He is a lethal weapon outside Asia in a 4 man pace attack, but he should probably be rested from home Tests.

Whether he resumes Test cricket entirely depends upon whether Misbah continues as Chief Selector and Head Coach. It was Misbah who bowled him into the ground as a Test bowler even in Australia, England and New Zealand, and Amir is not going to risk his career for more of the same.
 
I still think Amir is missed as much for his batting as his bowling.

Imagine having him at Number 9 in England......
 
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