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Mohammad Amir no longer an automatic pick in ODIs?

Saj

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With the performances of Usman Shinwari, Hasan Ali, Rumman Raees and to a certain extent Junaid Khan in the ODI series against Sri Lanka, are we seeing a shift in the pecking order of the Pakistani pacers in ODIs?

Is this series the wake-up call Mohammad Amir needed?

Is Amir no longer an automatic pick in the ODI team or does he remain the first-choice pacer?
 
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Got rohit, kohli and dhawan out cheaply in the last odi he played. Enough said......
 
Just because a guy takes 5 wickets against a deflated minnow srilankan side doesn't make him better than Amir.
 
Nope, this will bring more healthy competition, and provide Amir more opportunity to attack. He is still one of the best new ball bowler, not just in Country but in entire world...Somebody needs to off load him in test, we cannot expect him to bowl 800 overs a year and be effective, we have to play with 5 bowlers in test, otherwise no fast bowler would want to play test cricket...

Skill wise Raees and Usman are not at the level of Amir, even I would say Hasan is not as skillful as Amir ATM, Hasan has bigger heart and is a more fitter...But when in full swing Amir beats Strac(who is GOAT ODI bowler)...
 
Amir is the second name on the team sheet after Sarfaraz.
 
The equation is simple, Amir needs to pick up wickets consistently. He does bowl good spells but they are not wicket taking spells. This is what I find most frustrating about him.

It might be that the opposition batsmen play him over-cautiously hence less chances present themselves. Still a world class bowler has to outsmart the opposition.

Hasan Ali and all the other new bowlers have come to the party and have gotten wickets instantly.

I wish Amir a good recovery while hoping he comes back stronger otherwise we do have alternatives.
 
Healthy competition for the starting XI. Amir easily makes the cut. Good to have bench strength.
 
Amir is the second name on the team sheet after Sarfaraz.

after Babar. Fixed.

Sarfraz's leadership qualities alone should not make him the first name on the team sheet. Sarfraz has to perform with the bat. Right now he is 4th name on the team sheet behind Babar, Amir and Hasan.
 
In full rhythm Mohammad Amir is the best bowler in world cricket.

Along with Hasan both of their spots are fixed in the XI.

You just don’t keep a bowler like that on the bench.
 
Even without Usman, Amir wasnt taking much wickets except in odd one or two games. Dont know how can he be an auto choice in 2017.
 
Just because a guy takes 5 wickets against a deflated minnow srilankan side doesn't make him better than Amir.

exactly. Shenwari getting a good performance against a low at the time team Sri Lanka

Amir is still the best left arm fast bowler in Pakistan
 
Junaid Khan is a mediocre bowler, he has been bowling with great bowlers so it isn't as apparent right now
 
Usman's rise means more pressure on Junaid than Amir. Our three pacers can be Amir, Usman and Hasan.
 
Not on merit, but he does have the potential to be amazing, just needs to get his attitude right.
 
He is, but he's clearly the second best bowler in the team now when before he was the best. And if Shadab keeps performing, he'll be downgraded to third.
 
I don't think it would be so easy to knock Amir off the top perch. He already thought he was best in the business but Hassan Ali changed all that and he's almost on level with Amir in the wickets column, the aftershocks are still being felt as no one thinks Amir is what he seemed to be pre ban.

The bench won't come until Amir costs us some really high profile games, until then if he performs once in a blue moon he will retain his place and Junaid will have to suffer for it.

His immediate concern will be his place in the Test side more, an atrocious 1.5 years in the side with no performance to show for it.
 
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Nope, this will bring more healthy competition, and provide Amir more opportunity to attack. He is still one of the best new ball bowler, not just in Country but in entire world...Somebody needs to off load him in test, we cannot expect him to bowl 800 overs a year and be effective, we have to play with 5 bowlers in test, otherwise no fast bowler would want to play test cricket...

Skill wise Raees and Usman are not at the level of Amir, even I would say Hasan is not as skillful as Amir ATM, Hasan has bigger heart and is a more fitter...But when in full swing Amir beats Strac(who is GOAT ODI bowler)...

Apparently the most skillful is the now synonymous with not picking up wickets..
 
Look. Amir and hasan are lock. But amir will need to maintain a good level for it to stay that way. Hasan will have a longer rope as it stands as he is the number 1.

Lets just enjoy the fact we wont be seeing wahab riaz anytime soon in coloured clothes
 
The equation is simple, Amir needs to pick up wickets consistently. He does bowl good spells but they are not wicket taking spells. This is what I find most frustrating about him.

It might be that the opposition batsmen play him over-cautiously hence less chances present themselves. Still a world class bowler has to outsmart the opposition.

Hasan Ali and all the other new bowlers have come to the party and have gotten wickets instantly.

I wish Amir a good recovery while hoping he comes back stronger otherwise we do have alternatives.

Batsmen do tend to play him out. Which is why Amir goes for fewer runs even if he doesn't pick up wickets. Amir bowls more defensive lines a lot of time, at times bowling away from the batsman to minimise scoring.

However Hasan bowls more aggressive lines, more in line with/hitting wicket and gets more wickets. Very hard to try and play Hasan out. Which is why he used to be get hit for runs despite getting wickets in the past. Now he's getting wickets so frequently and is so lethal, it's at the point where it's difficult to score runs. It's a bit like what Starc does, Starc doesn't exactly try to bowl defensively it's just batsmen are terrified of losing their wickets to him that he goes for hardly any runs.
 
You have 3 pacers to select.
#1 is Hassan no question
#2 is Amir. I can't see anyone in their right mind selecting someone else here
#3 is between Junaid / Ruman / Usman - in that order
 
You have 3 pacers to select.
#1 is Hassan no question
#2 is Amir. I can't see anyone in their right mind selecting someone else here
#3 is between Junaid / Ruman / Usman - in that order

That is pretty much how it is, however, considering Usman's fifer the situation has been altered a bit. Starting next series the bowling attack will be Amir, Hasan and Shinwari. If Usman fails to perform then Junaid or Raees will come in.
 
That is pretty much how it is, however, considering Usman's fifer the situation has been altered a bit. Starting next series the bowling attack will be Amir, Hasan and Shinwari. If Usman fails to perform then Junaid or Raees will come in.
Is Shinwari still a spray gun? :afridi1
 
Yes he should still be.

But he has to perform like everyone else. Good to have a strong squad, players can be rotated if need be.
 
The last performance he had was against IND in the CT final.

He's an automatic pick.
 
No one has the right to automatic selection, they have to keep earning it. But to cast him down the pecking order so soon after a trophy winning performance and solid contribution to a humming attack in that tournament overall AND just for a new player who has cleaned up a low confident team. I think that would be detrimental for the team as people start playing scared if you chop & change even big performers too quickly (Oz is suffering from this at present).

I'd say he's in for the next series at least but if he doesn't perform there, he'll be under pressure again.
 
I think Amir is a definite pick in the ODI X1. His test spot might be in question but Amir is a good ODI bowler and will be the first choice in the X1 along with Hassan Ali.
 
That is pretty much how it is, however, considering Usman's fifer the situation has been altered a bit. Starting next series the bowling attack will be Amir, Hasan and Shinwari. If Usman fails to perform then Junaid or Raees will come in.

that's what you would think. But this is Pakistan cricket and seniority culture is still thriving

Junaid is a senior, and I think he still starts along with Amir and Hassan. The same reason why Hafeez and Imad are still lock's in the playing 11
 
Not taking anything away from the youngster but both Jasprit Bumrah and Bhuvneshwar Kumar picked up 5 wicket hauls against this Sri Lankan team. Bhuvi struggles to pick wickets against other teams.
 
With the performances of Usman Shinwari, Hasan Ali, Rumman Raees and to a certain extent Junaid Khan in the ODI series against Sri Lanka, are we seeing a shift in the pecking order of the Pakistani pacers in ODIs?

Is this series the wake-up call Mohammad Amir needed?

Is Amir no longer an automatic pick in the ODI team or does he remain the first-choice pacer?

TBH , Amir never was or never will be the Spearhead of Pakistan bowling ( v2.0). He is playing based on his previous reputation (v1.0)

Interesting times ahead , the problem is that he is so overhyped that couple of bad overs from current team can land them out on the other hand Amir will continue to be picked based on what he did 6 years ago.
His spells apart from CT final were OK but nothing special
 
Amir I think is still an automatic pick in ODIs. He has performed in ODIs. It's tests where he is no longer an automatic selection.

Our ODI pace attack is very good and we have a lot of options but our test pace attack lacks the bite needed. Hassan Ali has potential but he has not been properly tested. The rest are decent at best.
 
Hassan and Rumman are currently best. Amir and Shinwari fighting for third slot. Till date, Amir has edge but he needs to take wickets consistently.
 
Kohli rates Aamir, all former players rate him, his team-mate’s famlies want them to be as good as him, Muztafizur Rahman says Amir was his rolemodel, but here at PP we know best.

Allthough he hasn’t picked as many wickets as we would have liked, he has bowled economically and also been unlucky on occasions. He will get better and better and now when he sees the performance of other bowlers in the team he just has to lift his game a bit and will be an asset in Upcoming serieses.
 
This competition among bowlers will only help Amir to give his best in every game. I have a feeling that he will be our best bowler in NZ series.
 
Must be a decent attack to even be having this discussion . . let's just rejoice on that :) Azhar Mahmood and Mickey Arthur need to continue raising the bars though! Don't settle . .

For the record, I think Amir should continue to be in the first XI but I am very glad that he has serious competition from very able bowlers . . well, all bowlers at this point have serious competition . . I think Hasan is the leader of the attack, and Amir is still ahead of Junaid . . so with the advent of Rumaan and Shinwari, I would say Junaids position is under more threat than Amir . .

With Harris waiting in the wings for a middle order spot . . puts pressure on Hafeez and Malik as well . .

Good times! Hope they keep on learning, keep on growing!
 
The good thing is that our next ODI series is in New Zealand so playing 4 pace options will not be out of the ordinary. Hasan and Amir make the team without a question and Usman, on the back of one of the best 5fers in ODI history is also an easy choice. Pakistan can now either choose to drop a batsman and play a pacer or just go in with 3 fast bowlers.

1) Imam Ul Haq
2) FZ
3) Babar Azam
4) Shoaib Malik
5) Sarfraz Ahmed
6) Fahim Ashraf
7) Shadab Khan
8) Hasan Ali
9) Mohammad Amir
10) Rumman Raees
11) Usman Khan Shinwari

I guess Imad needs to sit out for Fahim which gives us 5 pace options and Harris can't break into the squad. Maybe an injury or a loss of form to Malik could get him into the side, looks very hard otherwise to be honest.
 
Amir is the first choice along with Hassan Ali the others will rotate around them until and unless Amir convert his test form into his ODI form where he is looking for wickets but they were behind the batsman.
 
The good thing is that our next ODI series is in New Zealand so playing 4 pace options will not be out of the ordinary. Hasan and Amir make the team without a question and Usman, on the back of one of the best 5fers in ODI history is also an easy choice. Pakistan can now either choose to drop a batsman and play a pacer or just go in with 3 fast bowlers.

1) Imam Ul Haq
2) FZ
3) Babar Azam
4) Shoaib Malik
5) Sarfraz Ahmed
6) Fahim Ashraf
7) Shadab Khan
8) Hasan Ali
9) Mohammad Amir
10) Rumman Raees
11) Usman Khan Shinwari

I guess Imad needs to sit out for Fahim which gives us 5 pace options and Harris can't break into the squad. Maybe an injury or a loss of form to Malik could get him into the side, looks very hard otherwise to be honest.

Needs to add more batsman in NZ rather 6 regular bowler along with a part timer. 3 quick wickets and you are goner. Even more shoaib doesn't like to bat at 4.
 
Got rohit, kohli and dhawan out cheaply in the last odi he played. Enough said......

Chasing 350+ even Zimbabwe bowlers can take out 3 batsmen. Ishant has done it multiple times for context
 
Not taking anything away from the youngster but both Jasprit Bumrah and Bhuvneshwar Kumar picked up 5 wicket hauls against this Sri Lankan team. Bhuvi struggles to pick wickets against other teams.

The same Bhuvi who took figures like 3 for 9 vs Aussies(with a coupel of dropped catches) , Ran through English and WI sides?
 
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The same Bhuvi who took figures like 3 for 9 vs Aussies(with a coupel of dropped catches) , Ran through English and WI sides?

Bhuvi averages 64 in ODIs against Australia and 49 against England so the point stands. :)

Shinwari will need to perform in other series before he can overtake Amir; at this point, it is Junaid's spot which will be in danger when Amir is fit and available.
 
The good thing is that our next ODI series is in New Zealand so playing 4 pace options will not be out of the ordinary. Hasan and Amir make the team without a question and Usman, on the back of one of the best 5fers in ODI history is also an easy choice. Pakistan can now either choose to drop a batsman and play a pacer or just go in with 3 fast bowlers.

1) Imam Ul Haq
2) FZ
3) Babar Azam
4) Shoaib Malik
5) Sarfraz Ahmed
6) Fahim Ashraf
7) Shadab Khan
8) Hasan Ali
9) Mohammad Amir
10) Rumman Raees
11) Usman Khan Shinwari

I guess Imad needs to sit out for Fahim which gives us 5 pace options and Harris can't break into the squad. Maybe an injury or a loss of form to Malik could get him into the side, looks very hard otherwise to be honest.
Faheem shoild start off at number 7 because he's still new and inexperienced to be batting at 6. I would rotate between roman reigns and shinwari but both cannot be in the same xi. Should play haris sohail if proven fit as he is a perfect replacement for imad wasim with the ball and with the bat he's 10x better.
 
The same Bhuvi who took figures like 3 for 9 vs Aussies(with a coupel of dropped catches) , Ran through English and WI sides?

Bhuvi averages 36 in ODIs.

I was shocked to say the least considering the hype he has been getting lately from some Indian fans so clearly he's not getting enough wickets.
 
Amir or no other bowler right now should be an auto-pick in ODIS, the competition for places means all bowlers have to perform to keep their place in the side and also means players wont take performances for granted. good headache to have for current ODI team.
 
Amir easily makes the side ahead of Junaid, no question. There is no doubt though, he needs to bring some more consistency into his game.
 
Competition is good, and Amir should get a wake up call

However he performs on the biggest stage and I expect that to continue
 
I would bench him for the next ODI series even if he is good enough to make it to the XI. It’ll give him the kick he needs to perform more consistently.
 
certainly didn't miss amir in this series. Don't see why he has to be slotted immediately back into the playing 11. No bowler performed poorly in the series hence why should they get the axe?
 
The same Bhuvi who took figures like 3 for 9 vs Aussies(with a coupel of dropped catches) , Ran through English and WI sides?

Sorry we are talking about ODI here. When did Bhuvi run through England in ODI's? He has been pretty poor over the last couple of years and has hardly taken any wickets. The fact that he can bowl well in the final overs is the only reason he is in the team. Just pull his records for the last couple of years and you will know what I am talking about. I am very well aware of Bhuvi's credentials in test cricket but this comment was solely based on his ODI form which wasn't that good and the 5 wicket haul gave him a longer rope in ODI's.
 
I think PPers are reading too much into performance against this SL side. While competition will be good for Amir, I am not sure if competition exist. Next few series will tell us more.
 
With the performances of Usman Shinwari, Hasan Ali, Rumman Raees and to a certain extent Junaid Khan in the ODI series against Sri Lanka, are we seeing a shift in the pecking order of the Pakistani pacers in ODIs?

Is this series the wake-up call Mohammad Amir needed?

Is Amir no longer an automatic pick in the ODI team or does he remain the first-choice pacer?

Which ODIs are you talking about Saj??
Bilateral Odi series with no meaning and context or Big ODI tournaments with more content?
I would definetly rest amir in games against SL , WI and bangladesh anyways. For the team of world cup or world T20 Amir still makes the first on the list.
 
Totally crazy to say that. TOTALLY CRAZY AND IDIOTIC! if we have 3 quality pacers, well play them all.. Shinwari, Amir, and Hasan. Bring it on.
 
Chasing 350+ even Zimbabwe bowlers can take out 3 batsmen. Ishant has done it multiple times for context

:))) That's the thing it wasn't just 3 regular batsman it was three of the most inform batsman in the world at the time, along with the BEST batsman of this era. The whole Zimbabwe team would not get three wickets against that top 3, if they were playing Zimbabwe they would've won by 9/10 wickets even chasing 350.

Mind you it wasn't 350+ it was only 340 and if it was that easy to get Kohli out when Chasing 300+ why haven't teams like England NZ or any other top team been able to do it with 350+ scores?
 
The same Bhuvi who took figures like 3 for 9 vs Aussies(with a coupel of dropped catches) , Ran through English and WI sides?

You seem to forget he averages 37 in ODI's and if we want to pick and choose performances why forget the 1/106 against South Africa?
 
You seem to forget he averages 37 in ODI's and if we want to pick and choose performances why forget the 1/106 against South Africa?

Don’t forget he has only 1 fiver and only 2 four-for..

5/42 against SL
4/33 against ZIM
4/8 against SL

11 of 13 Wickets listed above are through loft shot catches.
 
Don’t forget he has only 1 fiver and only 2 four-for..

5/42 against SL
4/33 against ZIM
4/8 against SL

11 of 13 Wickets listed above are through loft shot catches.

Yes that is also a good point but the more important thing is his average is so bad yet people try to argue how good he is. Numbers speak for themselves so I really don't feel the need to say anything more.
 
After Sarfraz and Babar - Amir is the next name on the team sheet.

Usman's performance will give him a leg up over Junaid. Raees and Wahab.
 
Not taking anything away from the youngster but both Jasprit Bumrah and Bhuvneshwar Kumar picked up 5 wicket hauls against this Sri Lankan team. Bhuvi struggles to pick wickets against other teams.

But none of them took the top order out inside his 1st 4 overs with the new ball. So there is difference between fifers. I dont remeber last time fast bowler taking 5 wickets with the new ball.
 
I dont have issues with Amir playing ODIs however some stiff competition there but his test performances against SRL were pretty disappointing to say the least.

Not just bcz he didnt take enough wickets but he wasnt willing to give it his all. When you are playing an international match you need to be giving your 100% rather than picking and choosing occasions and trying to manage workload during international matches.
 
I think PPers are reading too much into performance against this SL side. While competition will be good for Amir, I am not sure if competition exist. Next few series will tell us more.

SRL is playing poorly agreed but, if Usman would have taken fifer even against Zim in first 4 overs and against the top order players even that is something to take seriously.

Last time when did u see opening bowler taking all the five wickets at the top and in around 20 odd deliveries? Even against minnows?
 
Performance vs India > anything else. This is how things work in Pakistan.

When fit, Amir is an automatic pick. Junaid/Rumman/Shinwari have to fight for the remaining spot(s).
 
Unfortunately, Amir's still reaping the rewards of his reputation before his ban and it's still carrying him through. He's the least effective of our pacers and we're much better off without him in the team. That's there for everyone to see. His only good performances since his return have come against India (Asia Cup T20 and CT '17 final). This has Wahab Riaz written all over it. One or two good spells and you're in the team for the next 2 years.
 
After Sarfraz and Babar - Amir is the next name on the team sheet.

Usman's performance will give him a leg up over Junaid. Raees and Wahab.

Amir is one of the first names on the team sheet based on what? His reputation alone? Because his performances so far certainly place him on the bench. Every other pace bowler has actually performed. If one good spell against India means a free ride in the team for the next couple of years, then by all means, keep playing Wahab as well for that spell against Australia at the WC'15.
 
I think what they need to do is select all Amir, Hasan, Junaid, Shinwari, and Rumman as part of the 15-16 man squad for whatever tour or tournament that comes up. What they should do is alternate, and rest two of the bowlers every match. This way no one bowler has to carry all the load and get burned out or injured.
 
Healthy competition.

I think best way is to rotate the fast bowlers and keep them fresh. Also work on there batting skills a bit , specially power hitting , so as to make them capable of playing small quick cameos.
 
The good thing is that our next ODI series is in New Zealand so playing 4 pace options will not be out of the ordinary. Hasan and Amir make the team without a question and Usman, on the back of one of the best 5fers in ODI history is also an easy choice. Pakistan can now either choose to drop a batsman and play a pacer or just go in with 3 fast bowlers.

1) Imam Ul Haq
2) FZ
3) Babar Azam
4) Shoaib Malik
5) Sarfraz Ahmed
6) Fahim Ashraf
7) Shadab Khan
8) Hasan Ali
9) Mohammad Amir
10) Rumman Raees
11) Usman Khan Shinwari

I guess Imad needs to sit out for Fahim which gives us 5 pace options and Harris can't break into the squad. Maybe an injury or a loss of form to Malik could get him into the side, looks very hard otherwise to be honest.

Batting is waaaayyyyyy too thin for my liking.

Slot in Haris at 4 and play one of Fahim or Rumman since we already have 4 pacers.

Team could be something like this:

Fakhar Zaman
Imam
Babar Azam
Haris Sohail/Hafeez
Sarfraz Ahmed
Shoaib Malik
Shadab Khan
Rumman/Fahim
Hasan Ali
Amir
Usman Khan

This should be the team if we wanna go with 4 pacers. Hafeez could play on dry wickets instead of Haris if Hafeez is not banned otherwise Haris should be at #4. If we get a very flat pitch then playing Fahim instead of Rumman would be better.
 
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Amir is one of the first names on the team sheet based on what? His reputation alone? Because his performances so far certainly place him on the bench. Every other pace bowler has actually performed. If one good spell against India means a free ride in the team for the next couple of years, then by all means, keep playing Wahab as well for that spell against Australia at the WC'15.

Dude, he hasn't played a single ODI since that match against IND.

Don't doubt his ODI spot due to his test performance against SL.
 
Bhuvi averages 36 in ODIs.

I was shocked to say the least considering the hype he has been getting lately from some Indian fans so clearly he's not getting enough wickets.
He keeps it tight and makes it easy for their other world-beaters like Bumrah and Pandya to pick up wickets. Interesting how Amir is lambasted by these same souls for 'keeping it tight' while Kumar is praised for doing the same. Double standards toh inka dusra naam hai.
 
Dude, he hasn't played a single ODI since that match against IND.

Don't doubt his ODI spot due to his test performance against SL.

Lol he's played plenty of ODIs since his comeback. I didn't mention anywhere his test performance against Lanka or that I'm counting only that specific performance. I'm talking about his performances in LOI since his comeback.
 
:))) That's the thing it wasn't just 3 regular batsman it was three of the most inform batsman in the world at the time, along with the BEST batsman of this era. The whole Zimbabwe team would not get three wickets against that top 3, if they were playing Zimbabwe they would've won by 9/10 wickets even chasing 350.

Mind you it wasn't 350+ it was only 340 and if it was that easy to get Kohli out when Chasing 300+ why haven't teams like England NZ or any other top team been able to do it with 350+ scores?

And Sl chased 325 on the same pitch with ease a few days b4
 
I think its better for Amir sake that there is some competition in bowling department , might give him extra fire and motivation which he desperately needs actually . Wish him good times as he is too good to miss out , easily our best and most valuable asset in fast bowling( No disrespect to Hassan , amir is a level or two higher than him ).
 
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