Mohammad Rizwan v Travis Head: who is the best all format batter of the world?

[Rana]

Are you sure? 126 SR in current era! He should be dropped from T20. Most runs will be meanigless if you score at 126 SR in current era.

You’ve got it completely wrong here.

It’s not just about a sr of 126, it’s the value of that 126 to Pakistan cricket that is important.

Rizwan makes sure he leaves just about enough balls for batters 3-11 can hit and Miss to push the score to 160-180….because that’s all they are capable of. This is the case for Rizwan in every team he plays btw. He leaves 30-40 balls for guys like Miller, Pollard, Tim David as well, because all they need is 10-15 sixes off those remaining deliveries to push the score to 220

He has it all figured out. Please watch and understand the context of sr 126….it’s value is as good as a sr of 252!

 

[mominsaigol]

You’ve got it completely wrong here.

It’s not just about a sr of 126, it’s the value of that 126 to Pakistan cricket that is important.

Rizwan makes sure he leaves just about enough balls for batters 3-11 can hit and Miss to push the score to 160-180….because that’s all they are capable of. This is the case for Rizwan in every team he plays btw. He leaves 30-40 balls for guys like Miller, Pollard, Tim David as well, because all they need is 10-15 sixes off those remaining deliveries to push the score to 220

He has it all figured out. Please watch and understand the context of sr 126….it’s value is as good as a sr of 252!

Why does rizzu even open in PSL? The excuse for 2020 was that he opened because fakhar wasn't consistent and according to Misbah t20 cricket requires stability at the top of the order which Babar and rizzu can provide.

But why is he opening in psl where you already have international players that can provide both stability and aggression and give you good starts. Makes no sense.

 

[Rana]

Why does rizzu even open in PSL? The excuse for 2020 was that he opened because fakhar wasn't consistent and according to Misbah t20 cricket requires stability at the top of the order which Babar and rizzu can provide.

But why is he opening in psl where you already have international players that can provide both stability and aggression and give you good starts. Makes no sense.

You have to understand, Rizwan is the greatest cricket brain in Pakistan since Javed Miandad. He can do what he wants unquestionably, we must follow.

Look at what Multan Sultans have achieved since Rizwan has opened? 3 finals…1 trophy. Yeah who cares if LQ have won 2 titles in between with Fakhar as their opener?? Who honestly cares?

 

[Mamoon]

With all due respect, Rizwan would never find a place in the Australian dugout, mainly because their not looking at things like you are.

Carrey and Inglis are impact players, inglis especially, his 100 againat Ireland is > What rizwan can feasibly play and while inglis isn't a proper batter in that sense, theirs a reason he bats at no 7 for Australia and complements them well at that no.

No 1,2 3, 4 and 5 is reserved for Marsh/Smith/Jake Fraser/travis/Maxwell/labu.

In no universe would rizzu be allowed any of these numbers beyond no 7 as he doesn't replace any of these guys and unfortunately his style of play is not suitable for that no 7 slot, to top it off he averages 11 at no 7.

Meanwhile Travis replaces any opener in pakistan no question.

Seriously with a future 11 of

1) Travis Head
2) Jake Fraser
3) Marsh
4 ) Steve smith
5) Labu
6) Maxwell

^^ Where do you think rizwan fits in this?

An inexperienced hack like JFM offers nothing to Australia at the moment. He might come good in the future but he is not ready right now.

Rizwan can easily replace him as opener and be the perfect foil to the attack minded Head.

 

[mominsaigol]

An inexperienced hack like JFM offers nothing to Australia at the moment. He might come good in the future but he is not ready right now.

Rizwan can easily replace him as opener and be the perfect foil to the attack minded Head.

You cant actually be serious? Australia doesn't function like you do. Rizwan does not make it under any circumstance.

If push comes to Shove and Jake isn't working, Marsh just opens and they find someone else. They have a fortitude of players and rizwan would never under any circumstance suit their modern style of cricket.

Even steve smith goes at 100+ sr.

 

[Mamoon]

You cant actually be serious? Australia doesn't function like you do. Rizwan does not make it under any circumstance.

If push comes to Shove and Jake isn't working, Marsh just opens and they find someone else. They have a fortitude of players and rizwan would never under any circumstance suit their modern style of cricket.

Even steve smith goes at 100+ sr.

Yes that’s cool but none of that changes the fact that Rizwan is a better WK batsman than anyone in Australia right now. Australia’s failure to produce a quality WK batsman is quite funny.

 

[mominsaigol]

Yes that’s cool but none of that changes the fact that Rizwan is a better WK batsman than anyone in Australia right now. Australia’s failure to produce a quality WK batsman is quite funny.

No he is not, it's hilarious that you think so. It's just Australia does not require openers or wk middle orders atm.

90% of Inglis's odi and t20 career as well as Carrey is batting at no 7. Their averages matter less and sr matters more of which inglis is at 105 sr and 160 sr in the very few odi and t20 games he's played, deapite this he already has 2 t20 centuries, one of which he got promoted up the order and achieved in Ireland den whereas rizzu couldnt do anything on that very same pitch againat Ireland, the difference in how inglis treats Irish bowlers and how rizwan fumbles againat Ireland on the very same ground is night amd day.

Rizwan batting at no 7 averages 11 and that was the position he use to bat in. He also has extremly poor numbers in t20 batting lower then no 3.

Inglis mops the floor with rizwan and has capitalised on every opportunity when he's given a chance to bat up the order, However Australia has superior players so inglis must bat at no 7 90% of the time.

Rizwan isn't withint bootlicking distance of Carey or inglis for that matter. In fine with people hyping up rizwan for pakistan but I draw the line when stupid comparisons on him being a God given grace for Australia and that they'd be lucky to have him apply. He'd be a massive liability towards aussie playing style when the requirements are for everyone to outbat the opposition and while batting 2nd the mantra of taking the game deep does not apply.

 

[Mamoon]

No he is not, it's hilarious that you think so. It's just Australia does not require openers or wk middle orders atm.

90% of Inglis's odi and t20 career as well as Carrey is batting at no 7. Their averages matter less and sr matters more of which inglis is at 105 sr and 160 sr in the very few odi and t20 games he's played, deapite this he already has 2 t20 centuries, one of which he got promoted up the order and achieved in Ireland den whereas rizzu couldnt do anything on that very same pitch againat Ireland, the difference in how inglis treats Irish bowlers and how rizwan fumbles againat Ireland on the very same ground is night amd day.

Rizwan batting at no 7 averages 11 and that was the position he use to bat in. He also has extremly poor numbers in t20 batting lower then no 3.

Inglis mops the floor with rizwan and has capitalised on every opportunity when he's given a chance to bat up the order, However Australia has superior players so inglis must bat at no 7 90% of the time.

Rizwan isn't withint bootlicking distance of Carey or inglis for that matter. In fine with people hyping up rizwan for pakistan but I draw the line when stupid comparisons on him being a God given grace for Australia and that they'd be lucky to have him apply. He'd be a massive liability towards aussie playing style when the requirements are for everyone to outbat the opposition and while batting 2nd the mantra of taking the game deep does not apply.

I disagree. Inglis and Carey are not better than Rizwan. No choice.

Rizwan is superior on both sides of the stumps. I wouldn’t have either of them in my team ahead of those two.

 

[mominsaigol]

I disagree. Inglis and Carey are not better than Rizwan. No choice.

Rizwan is superior on both sides of the stumps. I wouldn’t have either of them in my team ahead of those two.

That's fair we cam agree to disagree, however inglis innings vs Ireland on the same pitch,same opposite same top order is enough for me to justify him being superior in t20 atleast.

For odi we'll see

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I disagree. Inglis and Carey are not better than Rizwan. No choice.

Rizwan is superior on both sides of the stumps. I wouldn’t have either of them in my team ahead of those two.

The fact that you would have Rizwan and Babar in the team despite being on the losing run since 2017 sums up your entire attitude towards modern day cricket.

Perhaps you should pick another sport?

Football?

Though if things are to be believed, I hear you didn't have the best of mental skills in football either.

 

[Mamoon]

The fact that you would have Rizwan and Babar in the team despite being on the losing run since 2017 sums up your entire attitude towards modern day cricket.

Perhaps you should pick another sport?

Football?

Though if things are to be believed, I hear you didn't have the best of mental skills in football either.

Pakistan is not a losing streak because of Babar and Rizwan. If you don’t understand that, there is no point in having a discussion with you.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Pakistan is not a losing streak because of Babar and Rizwan. If you don’t understand that, there is no point in having a discussion with you.

Pakistan is on a losing streak because entire team is built to accommodate these 2 stat padders and there is nothing else to discuss beyond that.

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan is on a losing streak because entire team is built to accommodate these 2 stat padders and there is nothing else to discuss beyond that.

Pakistan is on a losing streak because it doesn’t have enough quality players like Babar and Rizwan.

People like you claimed that Pakistan should bring back “winners” like Amir and Imad. We saw what those two winners did vs USA and India in the World Cup.

Pakistan is a cricket nation that always find a way to degrade its best players and somehow find a way to blame them for the lack of success when they are the only few players who kept Pakistan relevant.

Whatever little that Pakistan has achieved in the last few years is because of Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen and Fakhar. That is it, and apart from Fakhar, all three are players who cop the most criticism which sums up the mentality of Pakistan cricket fans.

Then again, what can we expect from a bunch of fans who glorify match fixers and perennial failures.

 

[mominsaigol]

Pakistan is on a losing streak because it doesn’t have enough quality players like Babar and Rizwan.

People like you claimed that Pakistan should bring back “winners” like Amir and Imad. We saw what those two winners did vs USA and India in the World Cup.

Pakistan is a cricket nation that always find a way to degrade its best players and somehow find a way to blame them for the lack of success when they are the only few players who kept Pakistan relevant.

Whatever little that Pakistan has achieved in the last few years is because of Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen and Fakhar. That is it, and apart from Fakhar, all three are players who cop the most criticism which sums up the mentality of Pakistan cricket fans.

Then again, what can we expect from a bunch of fans who glorify match fixers and perennial failures.

Fakhar doesn't get hate because he's the only true match winner and is the only player who can play a modern brand of cricket. He's also the one who's gotten pakistan over the line or at the very least close to it (193 against sa)

T20 no 1 rank wouldn't have been possible if fakhar didn't score 91 of 46 against australia in a tri series final, His biggest crime is that he's inconsistent, so was gurbaz and Travis head but unlike australia and Afghanistan who focused on improving confidence and making sure their inconsistent players become more consistent, pakistan finished fakhar's career, Didn't give him more test matches, Didn't trust him to continue opening for the team, Dropped him for many matches during wc 2023 etc etc.

Babar has lapsed in form badly and so has shaheen they deserve to be critised. As for rizwan his refusal to play modern era cricket frustrates people and understandably so.

You cannot claim that a team being built around them is false when Misbah virtually claimed it 4 years ago by admission, Chacha, Rizwan amd Babar were developed to become a brand and to top it off the overall culture Misbah promoted set us back decades as usual.

Babar, Rizwan, and shaheen are not the worst of the worst but the difference between 2017 and 2019 pakistan aka why a mid card team was able to win ct and cause upsets against England was due to motivation and a different team spirit at the time.

Misbah's culture has always caused demotivation and a denial to play modern era cricket and Babar himself is the same and a total softie crying tears against SA under pressure.

Changing the culture is the only way for pakistan to succeed, and it doesn't involve building a brand around Babar and rizwan

 

[Rana]

Rizwan should be able to make light work of this total by Nurpur Lions

 

[gazza619]

My solution is that If you wish to be a competitive team, one that can actually compete on the big stages and not be a joke 24/7, then you need to revamp the entire culture.

The reason pakistan succeeded in 2017 is because for once Misbah left and no pcb chairman intervened. The whole squad was revamped and the culture of winning was promoted.

Fakhar replaced shehzad
Azhar Ali adopted a more aggressive approach at opening
Hafeez slotted from opening to no 4 and adopted a more aggressive approach
Babar was the new kid on the block at no 3
Malik and haris sohail picked up no 5 and adopted a more aggressive modern day approach
Imad wasim was the new allrounder in the block
Amir returned and hasan Ali was the better bowler on the block

^^ Not only was the squad completly new from what pakistan was use to under Misbah or Azhar but the culture of being aggressive was promoted and both sarfi, Mickey amd even azhar, Hafeez and Malik did a good job promoting aggressive cricket and being good role models for youngsters to play aggressive cricket.

However when you brought Misbah back and had him make changes you went back to the dark era because Misbah is incapable of having a modern approach to whiteball cricket, he went out of his way to collapse the team as long as his buddies + Babar could work.

This champions cup is a waste of time because your mentors like misbah and waqar are outdated and theirs no intent, Besides kamran ghulam and Abdul samad their isnt a single batter willing to attack and butcher the bowling. Australia vs England yesterday, not a single batter who scored > 30 batted at an sr lower then 100 for both sides meanwhile in pakistan it's common to see scores of 32 of 50 etc etc.

You want a solid solution?

Get rid of everything, Get rid of Naqvi's, these shan masood daddies, these inzimam's, these misbah's or waqar's, and get rid of the entire current crop of players besides Fakhar whos the only one willing to play modern cricket. Get an entire new team from under 19 and promote a culture of aggressive cricket, one which encourages aggression under the mentorship of Gary or any worldclass coach and forbid these guys from ever interacting with Misbah or this lot.

If a domestic tournament is hosted, make it clear that no one will be selected until and unless their Strike rates for odi are over a 100 and for t20 are over 140.

This lot will take a thrashing but Afghanistan played the long game and it worked after a decade of bashing, they got use to the bowling of big sides.

You need a massive refresh like in 2017, where you virtually got rid of everyone and Ahmed shehzad was the last remnant of the dark days that you finally disposed on the semi's.

To fix a team you need an entire team culture, one which tells you to play attacking cricket. Right now the culture is to emulate Babar and rizwan who both came from the tutelage of misbah and were coached on captaincy and modern era whoteball by him and obviously misbah has no clue about whiteball cricket and has collapsed the t20 and odi side on 2 occasions now one as captain and the other as coach.

I appreciate the long post. Certain things I agree on but we must have a practical approach. If you are going to pick under 19 team then what is the point of having domestic cricket. The issue is not as much the system but the people running it.

To start with all your under 19 kids are age fudging 25 year olds. Corruption is on our blood.

We have to use the resources we have. Otherwise our cricket will be destroyed and we wont even qualify for World Cups.

We can take baby steps though, and your first step I agree with. Lets get rid of this Naqvi.

 

[mominsaigol]

I appreciate the long post. Certain things I agree on but we must have a practical approach. If you are going to pick under 19 team then what is the point of having domestic cricket. The issue is not as much the system but the people running it.

To start with all your under 19 kids are age fudging 25 year olds. Corruption is on our blood.

We have to use the resources we have. Otherwise our cricket will be destroyed and we wont even qualify for World Cups.

We can take baby steps though, and your first step I agree with. Lets get rid of this Naqvi.

And what resources do you have? We aren't qualifying for World cups anyway?

For CT we're just lucky that we're the host nation and at this rate we'll be playing qualifiers for 2027

 

[Ab Fan]

@Ab Fan brought the idea up. He mentioned somewhere Rizwan is one of the best all format batters in the world. I have thought long and hard about this. He may have a point

I didn't mentioned he is the best all formats batter in the world, I said he is a quality player across all formats.

As for comparison vs Travis Head, Travis Head wins it in white ball cricket while in Tests, it's debatable. Actually the only keeper batsman I would pick today ahead of Rizwan in Tests is Rishabh Pant.

 

[anikrc1]

The GOAT all format batter thing itself is silly
. Odis and t-20's have very little credence while rating the very best. If you want you can make different lists for different formats, no need to mix them.
So in tests
KP ABDV WARNER GAYLE
ODIS
ABDV WARNER KP GAYLE
T20S
GAYLE ABDV WARNER KP.

 

[Local.Dada]

One difference is Travis Head was mediocre for a long period of time, his management backed him for years before he realized his potential.

With Rizwan it’s like he bats with a gun to his head every game: one failure and people want him replaced with a kid no one has ever heard of or some over the hill veteran. He has to keep churning out numbers to stay alive.

 

[Rana]

He has to keep churning out numbers to stay alive

Settler mentality bro

 

[RyanRyan10]

One difference is Travis Head was mediocre for a long period of time, his management backed him for years before he realized his potential.

With Rizwan it’s like he bats with a gun to his head every game: one failure and people want him replaced with a kid no one has ever heard of or some over the hill veteran. He has to keep churning out numbers to stay alive.

Like 54 (49) in Asia Cup final?

 

[Local.Dada]

Like 54 (49) in Asia Cup final?

Yuvraj has had one terrible match like that too and that too in worldcup final. That shouldn’t be a reflection of how good a player is. Having said that in that knock Yuvi had other players performing like Virat. With Rizwan his innings might have sucked but by default was still the best knock in the team in that context. I think we went over this.

 

[RyanRyan10]

Yuvraj has had one terrible match like that too and that too in worldcup final. That shouldn’t be a reflection of how good a player is. Having said that in that knock Yuvi had other players performing like Virat. With Rizwan his innings might have sucked but by default was still the best knock in the team in that context. I think we went over this.

Yuvraj had played knocks Like 70 (30) too. Did Rizwan produce such innings?

 

[Asif321]

Head won the final of WC23 single handily with huge pressure . That is already superior than whole career of Rizwan .

 

[mominsaigol]

Yuvraj has had one terrible match like that too and that too in worldcup final. That shouldn’t be a reflection of how good a player is. Having said that in that knock Yuvi had other players performing like Virat. With Rizwan his innings might have sucked but by default was still the best knock in the team in that context. I think we went over this.

No one would blame rizwan if he had such innings on occasion.

Fakhar In the 5th odi against NZ in 2023 fakhar made 33 of 64 costing pakistan the game against NZ.

Their not God's, their human and it happens. But ask yourself why these 2 don't get critised and why rizwan does?

It's because yes these guys will fumble and have horrible innings, sarfi has had multiple, Fakhar has had multiple etc etc but it doesn't always happen and these guys do not do it deliberately.

They have their team in their mind. Their professional cricketers who don't care about their 100's. This was the issue with Misbah ul Haq. RR bhar mei jai, every game he'd play exactly the same way, which was scoring at a 20 to 30 SR and by the time the gake was done and dusted, hit a few big shots and get out and them his delusional fans would praise him calling him a fighter.

Rizwan does this 24/7. Rizwan, Chacha and Misbah, the God father trio.

Australia has had the luxury of having Gilchrist the 1st, Warner the 2nd and Travis the 3rd while Pakistan has had the luxury of having Misbah the 1st, Rizwan the 2nd and chacha the 3rd.

One thing I will say however is that the critism on Babar is a little unfair as he warranted his no 3 spot and didn't stomp over anyone. His own head and ego and fitness and media hyped him to oblivion but he atleast plays to his strengths which is Accumulation and bat through and doesn't masacarde around as an opener or Middle order batter when in reality rizwan is neither.

He's a keeper who can bat just like Alex Carey, not a batsmen who can keep like quinton or gilchrist. But unlike Carey, Rizwam is pretending to be, And to top it off he's pretending to be an opener and Mo batter over the expense of actual mo or Openers.

 

[Mamoon]

One difference is Travis Head was mediocre for a long period of time, his management backed him for years before he realized his potential.

With Rizwan it’s like he bats with a gun to his head every game: one failure and people want him replaced with a kid no one has ever heard of or some over the hill veteran. He has to keep churning out numbers to stay alive.

Rizwan is miles better than any wicket-keeper batsman in Pakistan right now. That is all that matters. He faces no threat to his position and his selection is on merit when his competition is Sarfraz, Haris and Azam etc.

Even if you replace Rizwan with Head in the Pakistan team, you would still need a competent wicket keeper to fill the void.

 

[Buffet]

Yuvraj has had one terrible match like that too and that too in worldcup final. That shouldn’t be a reflection of how good a player is. Having said that in that knock Yuvi had other players performing like Virat. With Rizwan his innings might have sucked but by default was still the best knock in the team in that context. I think we went over this.

I think you are missing the point here. Issue is over all trend and not one knock. You can't make RR of 6-7 to 10-12 by batting slow too many times because it makes the job of coming batsment 10 times harder.

"Difficult to play an anchor role in T20s & sometimes it looks very embarrassing": Mohammad Rizwan

Who in the world plays anchor role in T20? Longer you bat with SR of 100 in T20, harder its to win the most games. Yes, I am aware of few times when Anchor role won the game for Pakistan but majority of times anchor role is just plain stats padding and nothing else.

His game is suited for Test cricket where he can contribute with anchor role mindset. I don't think anyone should play an anchor role in T20 consistently. Some times it may be needed but you can't have that mindset for all games.

 

[mominsaigol]

One difference is Travis Head was mediocre for a long period of time, his management backed him for years before he realized his potential.

With Rizwan it’s like he bats with a gun to his head every game: one failure and people want him replaced with a kid no one has ever heard of or some over the hill veteran. He has to keep churning out numbers to stay alive.

The management didn't recognise anything. He got dropped, then reselected because he top scored in domestics, Then he got dropped after failing in international and reselected after top scoring in domestics.

The pattern repeated itself until he finally made his mark on international.

He didn't exactly consistently open and fail for years with people pointing guns to his head and then miraculously perform.

He was dropped in 2017 because even though he bashed Pakistan, Australia did not think it was enough, Then he got dropped in 2019 because losing to pakistan 2x in 2018 despite the fact that pak was ranked no 1 was seen as unforgivable as aus has high standards and refuses to take pak seriously no matter the rank.

Then he was dropped in 2021 as well.

He made his mark because no matter how many times he was dropped, He kept top scoring an an insane avg and sr in domestics, so No choice but to keep recalling him.

He had to work hard and go through multiple rounds of dropping. Stark difference from rizzu, Shan, Chacha, Shadab etc etc who got free passenger rides

 

[Local.Dada]

I think you are missing the point here. Issue is over all trend and not one knock. You can't make RR of 6-7 to 10-12 by batting slow too many times because it makes the job of coming batsment 10 times harder.

"Difficult to play an anchor role in T20s & sometimes it looks very embarrassing": Mohammad Rizwan

Who in the world plays anchor role in T20? Longer you bat with SR of 100 in T20, harder its to win the most games. Yes, I am aware of few times when Anchor role won the game for Pakistan but majority of times anchor role is just plain stats padding and nothing else.

His game is suited for Test cricket where he can contribute with anchor role mindset. I don't think anyone should play an anchor role in T20 consistently. Some times it may be needed but you can't have that mindset for all games.

The management didn't recognise anything. He got dropped, then reselected because he top scored in domestics, Then he got dropped after failing in international and reselected after top scoring in domestics.

The pattern repeated itself until he finally made his mark on international.

He didn't exactly consistently open and fail for years with people pointing guns to his head and then miraculously perform.

He was dropped in 2017 because even though he bashed Pakistan, Australia did not think it was enough, Then he got dropped in 2019 because losing to pakistan 2x in 2018 despite the fact that pak was ranked no 1 was seen as unforgivable as aus has high standards and refuses to take pak seriously no matter the rank.

Then he was dropped in 2021 as well.

He made his mark because no matter how many times he was dropped, He kept top scoring an an insane avg and sr in domestics, so No choice but to keep recalling him.

He had to work hard and go through multiple rounds of dropping. Stark difference from rizzu, Shan, Chacha, Shadab etc etc who got free passenger rides

That still counts as management backing. Even in India some players marked as special talents get a longer rope even if they are out of form.

This is my observation but I have seen plenty of Pak players who showed a lot of promise being picked, dropped and never get a 2nd chance. The ones who keep getting chances bar 1-2 don’t seem good enough.

So the pressure to consistently put up numbers is lot more for Pak players. Rizwan has been doing that and from what I notice the games Pak wins usually there is major contribution from him or Babar who has lost his form. However apples to apples Rizwan seems more clutch and has better temparament.