Mohammed Rizwan vs Kamran Akmal - Who gets into a Pakistani ATG T20I?

[Ab Fan]

Abdul Razzaq over Asif any day any era.

Ajmal was a better bowler than Shadab as well but the chucking casts a shadow over whether he would make the team or not.

Razzaq was on last leg when T20 internationals and World Cup came into existence. So, I won't include him because he didn't do much there or maybe I can't recall much. Asif Ali chased down 20 runs in final over vs Afghanistan in T20 World Cup.

Between Ajmal and Shadab, I have no doubts as to whom should I pick. It will be Shadab everytime. He has a 4-fer in semis vs Australia and overall great numbers.

 

[dravidthewall]

Kamran akmal strike ratein T20 better thn Rizwan. I would say in T20 kamran akmal and in test rizwan

 

[GudduBadmash]

Kamran akmal strike ratein T20 better thn Rizwan. I would say in T20 kamran akmal and in test rizwan

Kamran Akmal has a strike rate of 119 in T20 internationals LOOL

 

[GudduBadmash]

Word cup winners medal

Kamran=1

Rizwan= Anda

IPL winners medal

Kamran= 1

Rizwan= khwaab

Kamrans contribution to that IPl win was very minimal

It was the Smith, Watson, Pathan and Asnodkar show with the bat. All 4 crossed 300 runs. With 3 of them crossing 400. Out of the 3 Pakistanis in RR. Sohail Tanvir played the biggest role

 

[Rana]

Kamran Akmal has a strike rate of 119 in T20 internationals LOOL

Dilshan has a sr of 121 around the same time

He was the pioneer of attacking opening batting in the modern game

 

[Rana]

Kamrans contribution to that IPl win was very minimal

It was the Smith, Watson, Pathan and Asnodkar show with the bat. All 4 crossed 300 runs. With 3 of them crossing 400. Out of the 3 Pakistanis in RR. Sohail Tanvir played the biggest role

Even with a 80% contribution from Rizwan

Pakistan ain’t winning any silverware at the grand stage

He’s just not that guy pal.

 

[shaz619]

As much as I despise Kamran Akmal the guy and hated his wicketkeeping, he has been instrumental in playing some of the best knocks for Pakistan in t20is. His peak was 2008-2010. A very short one but during that time, he was good enough to be one of the main guys for Pak's wt20 09 win. Kamran was probably the third most important guy in the team for that tournament after Afridi and Gul. He consistently provided fast starts in that tournament. In the semi final, he got Pak off to a flyer (relatively speaking considering the pitch) with his 23 of 12 on a pitch everyone else found it extremely hard to score. Afridi did exceptionally well to get a 50 but Pak wouldn't have been able to get to 140 odd if it weren't due to his cameo. In the final again, Shahzaib Hasan was struggling to put the bat on the ball and Kamran took away all the pressure off him but consistently taking on the bowlers scoring 37 or something and giving Pak a good enough start from Afridi to capitalize on and take the team home.

He was again very good in wt20 10 as well. Pak was something like 40/4 in 10 overs against SA before Kamran and Umar counterattacked and took Pak to around 140. In the semi final again, he played a great knock alongside Umar but Hussey played a mercurial knock to trump it.

He also played a little gem against Australia in Australia in 2010 scoring 60 something at a SR of around 200 chasing 120 something where no one else was able to score more than a SR of 100.

Kamran was an awful keeper and when he was hitting his peak in 2010 as a batter, the spot fixing saga and his 6 month long axing from the squad put a total end to his career. After that, he was simply a passenger. Kamran was only useful when he played as an opener in t20is. As a middle order batter or finisher, he was awful.

Kamran was never consistent and his numbers prove that but on his good days, he was probably our best opener in t20is and a wt20 victory is a feather on his cap.

Coming on to Rizwan, he isn't the most talented batter in Pak and has punched above his weight and is seemingly has just started to get better after a stellar year as an opener. Rizwan has some visible chunks in his armory but he has been gritty enough to somehow make up for them. On pure numbers, Rizwan is the best batter in the t20i team as of now, and him not being aggressive enough up front or taking a bit long to get going has some merit in it, but the thing is there isn't anyone better to do that job over and over again considering the joke of a middle order we have. Although Rizwan has played more t20is than Kamran, he still has more games left in his career and is a great opportunity for him to take Pakistan to a world title.

Based on who should get into the team depends on what the team lineup is. If you have a middle order of peak [Afridi, Malik, Razzaq, Umar Misbah, Hafeez, Younis(Misbah and Younis were very good in the early period of t20i format when it was still taking its shape)], you can take a punt on Kamran and hope for him having a good day to take us off to a flyer.

But when you have a middle order of Shan, Iftikhar, Khushdil and Asif, playing Kamran would be a suicide as he will fail on more occasions than not and Pak will bundle out for around 130 on most days.

Rizwan is crucial for the current team and Kamran was crucial for the 2008-10 team as the respective openers.

Regarding adaptability, Kamran never showed the adaptability when the middle order of the team got weaker from 2012-14, and we remained an ordinary t20i team during that time.

Rizwan has time up his sleeve to show versatility in his game and if he can help Pak win a title, he would be an undisputed pick in the team.

But honestly speaking, the middle order that we currently have is not going to win us any tournament.

POTW

I rate Riswan highly and lean towards him in this battle as he also has further opportunities to cement his status, but Kamran is a victim of some recency bias because his peak was great and he played a key role for Pakistan in T20’s, in both 09/10 WC’s I think he was also in the top two for Pakistan’s highest run getters.

Yes, I was there at Trent Bridge and my memory might fail me but he took on Steyn and it was beautiful to watch. It put the pressure on SA before a hot crowd in a crunch game, a very courageous cameo.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Word cup winners medal

Kamran=1

Rizwan= Anda

IPL winners medal

Kamran= 1

Rizwan= khwaab

By this logic in your books Munaf Patel is a supreme bowler compared to Waqar Younis. Amazing debate.

 

[shaz619]

Even with a 80% contribution from Rizwan

Pakistan ain’t winning any silverware at the grand stage

He’s just not that guy pal.

InshaAllah he will

 

[Rana]

By this logic in your books Munaf Patel is a supreme bowler compared to Waqar Younis. Amazing debate.

Is this thread about Waqar v Munaf?

Or Rameez v Ganguly?

Let’s go Extra cover. Been a long time I drilled some through that region!

 

[Rana]

InshaAllah he will

Qudrat ka Nizaam mantra

 

[shaz619]

By this logic in your books Munaf Patel is a supreme bowler compared to Waqar Younis. Amazing debate.

Mohammad Amir had a bigger set on him then Waqar when it came to crunch ICC tournaments. Waqar was a big choker.

Munaf Patel if he won silverware and delivered in a tournament then perhaps he has achieved more as well.

 

[shaz619]

Qudrat ka Nizaam mantra

Indeed, the ones of strong faith know this.

 

[chinaman00]

My observation is that Pakistanis are prisoners of nostalgia and superstitions and are always looking backwards, never forward. This is reflected in their politics, national character and sports. With Pakistanis, there’s always this strong tendency to prefer random acts over hard work, consistency and grit.

Kamran Akmal was one of the worst batsmen to ever play for Pakistan. Not to mention the way he and his brother have introduced toxic politics into the team and derailed the team on many occasions.

No one in their right mind will pick a player who has one subjective ‘good innings’ every 50 games over a batsman that consistently performs like Rizwan. It’s an insult to compare Rizwan and Kamran. But then the people making these absurd comparisons are the same people that want Shoaib Malik, fat cheater Sharjeel Khan, Umar Akmal and other certified failures to play again.

 

[Extra_Cover]

Is this thread about Waqar v Munaf?

Or Rameez v Ganguly?

Let’s go Extra cover. Been a long time I drilled some through that region!

Extracover is my go to shot too! On Kamran vs Rizwan comparison in T20I I have given my 2 cents. All I have done is pasted their stats which speaks for themselves. I don't have personal affiliation with either of the two and if you ask same question to any non Pakistani or neutral they would say the exact same thing.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Neither, tbh.

Peak Umar Akmal is a shoo-in as a keeper batter in the ATG Pak team. I'd go with this team

Sharjeel, Imran Nazir
Babar, Umar Akmal (wk)
Afridi, Hafeez, Razzaq, Shadab
Shaheen, Gul, Akhtar/Rauf

If Ajmal wasn't a chucker I'd put him in place of Shadab but because of his action, he doesn't make it. The middle-order is full of all-round cricketing ability and has the potential to hit big when needed. There's no one in Pakistan who hit pace as effectively as Razzaq and Afridi and Shadab can hit spin. Hafeez makes it solely because he was a tremendous bowler and managed to retain his effectiveness even after modified bowling action. His batting is a bonus and giving him a license to play freely is essential instead of letting him play as an anchor in the top 4.

Gul is the best T20 fast bowler and now he is backed up by two good ones in this team which makes for a very good balance.

The opening is dynamic and also consists of a left-right hand combination which in itself is a big bonus. If you need an anchor, there's Babar as well who can dig in if needed.

In my opinion, the only thing missing from this team is an attacking left-handed batter in the middle order but I can't seem to think of any good one who has played for Pakistan.

 

[Rana]

My observation is that Pakistanis are prisoners of nostalgia and superstitions and are always looking backwards, never forward. This is reflected in their politics, national character and sports. With Pakistanis, there’s always this strong tendency to prefer random acts over hard work, consistency and grit.

Kamran Akmal was one of the worst batsmen to ever play for Pakistan. Not to mention the way he and his brother have introduced toxic politics into the team and derailed the team on many occasions.

No one in their right mind will pick a player who has one subjective ‘good innings’ every 50 games over a batsman that consistently performs like Rizwan. It’s an insult to compare Rizwan and Kamran. But then the people making these absurd comparisons are the same people that want Shoaib Malik, fat cheater Sharjeel Khan, Umar Akmal and other certified failures to play again.

Why are you becoming so deep and personal?

Cricket and winning matches doesn’t care about philosophy and melodrama

What matters is what it takes to win the game in hand.

Kamran has got the job done once from his country. Rizwan has not, when he does, I’m sure Rizwan will have a better claim at being a superior keeper/bat to Kamran

 

[shaz619]

Neither, tbh.

Peak Umar Akmal is a shoo-in as a keeper batter in the ATG Pak team. I'd go with this team

Sharjeel, Imran Nazir
Babar, Umar Akmal (wk)
Afridi, Hafeez, Razzaq, Shadab
Shaheen, Gul, Akhtar/Rauf

If Ajmal wasn't a chucker I'd put him in place of Shadab but because of his action, he doesn't make it. The middle-order is full of all-round cricketing ability and has the potential to hit big when needed. There's no one in Pakistan who hit pace as effectively as Razzaq and Afridi and Shadab can hit spin. Hafeez makes it solely because he was a tremendous bowler and managed to retain his effectiveness even after modified bowling action. His batting is a bonus and giving him a license to play freely is essential instead of letting him play as an anchor in the top 4.

Gul is the best T20 fast bowler and now he is backed up by two good ones in this team which makes for a very good balance.

The opening is dynamic and also consists of a left-right hand combination which in itself is a big bonus. If you need an anchor, there's Babar as well who can dig in if needed.

In my opinion, the only thing missing from this team is an attacking left-handed batter in the middle order but I can't seem to think of any good one who has played for Pakistan.

Ajmal’s action was reported in 2009 but cleared, it would get worse later but between 09-2012 it was fine. In terms of Sharjeel being picked, are you picking him based on what he has achieved for Pakistan in T20’s or what you’d hope he would/should achieve ?

 

[shaz619]

Why are you becoming so deep and personal?

Cricket and winning matches doesn’t care about philosophy and melodrama

What matters is what it takes to win the game in hand.

Kamran has got the job done once from his country. Rizwan has not, when he does, I’m sure Rizwan will have a better claim at being a superior keeper/bat to Kamran

Many of these people need therapy like Jey Uso

 

[topspin]

[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION]

It’s perfectly reasonable to express a lack of satisfaction about the manner Rizwan has batted for Pakistan as an opener during his T20I career.

But to claim Kamran Akmal is superior or as the preferred option over Rizwan is so disrespectful.

If we had Rizwan back then during a lower scoring era and with lesser bowling attacks (when everyone was trying to work out the best approach to T20s), he would have done better than what we see from him today.

 

[shaz619]

Rizwan by a country mile.

Kami is legit one of the most pathetic players to ever play for Pakistan in my eyes. An atrocious wicket-keeper...possibly even the worst wicket-keeper to play 10+ tests for Pakistan. A thoroughly mediocre batter who almost always went missing in big matches. And a man who can be directly blamed for numerous losses where his atrocious wicket-keeping was the biggest reason we lost.

Also, those under the misconception that he was a good T20I player, his SR as opener in T20Is was 114. I wonder what [MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION] would have to say about Rizwan if he boasted such a pathetic SR as opener.

He undoubtedly showed promise in his early years and if there's anything he can hang his hat on, its the innings he played in the 2006 Karachi test. But from 2007 it was a steep, steep decline.

I am leaning towards Riswan and also feel he will achieve great wonders in time, there is no statistic comparison frankly speaking.

But I also think Kamran’s peak was very good and his numbers don’t do his best output justice between 08/09-2010, he was a key part of the world championship winning team and was important at the top a year later in the west indies against some very quality attacks in foreign conditions. [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] has articulated his output quiet well in his post.

On the whole he was inconsistent, but we have to look at the good with the bad. As a person, I think he should get deported to China but as a player there were some great moments/performances in his career, even though I’d like to think a prime version of him would be even more effective now his achilles heel has been his personality.

 

[Rana]

[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION]

It’s perfectly reasonable to express a lack of satisfaction about the manner Rizwan has batted for Pakistan as an opener during his T20I career.

But to claim Kamran Akmal is superior or as the preferred option over Rizwan is so disrespectful.

If we had Rizwan back then during a lower scoring era and with lesser bowling attacks (when everyone was trying to work out the best approach to T20s), he would have done better than what we see from him today.

But Rizwan was there though. He debuted around 2008/2009 and was on the radar from 2011-12 onwards. Rizwan wasn’t good enough to play for Pakistan until all of these cricketers were eventually gone or phased out due to age or poor form.

Now Rizwan looks great because Kamran’s time is up and has been poor in the latter part of his career whilst Rizwan finally found himself.

Then again, the testimony of greatness in comparisons as such is silverware.

Kamran has achieved big in this regard. Rizwan potentially can, all the best to him.

 

[Rana]

A platform will be provided to Rizwan next month to get equal with Kamran Akmal at the grand stage.

Best of luck to him and Pakistan

 

[Forum363]

Kamran Akmal has a strike rate of 119 in T20 internationals LOOL

Don't let facts get in the way of delusions Akmal fans.

'but kami looked better playing his flat footed hoicks'
'It was a different era, 119 then was like 175 now'
'Rizwan plays against weaker teams'

 

[Rana]

Don't let facts get in the way of delusions Akmal fans.

'but kami looked better playing his flat footed hoicks'
'It was a different era, 119 then was like 175 now'
'Rizwan plays against weaker teams'

You hit the nail on the head

 

[Cric1234]

Don't let facts get in the way of delusions Akmal fans.

'but kami looked better playing his flat footed hoicks'
'It was a different era, 119 then was like 175 now'
'Rizwan plays against weaker teams'

Rizwan best strike rates are in series against West Indies and South Africa the bowling attacks and the pitches there will tell us why other than that his impact in tournaments and the recent series against England when he played better bowling has been minimal.

One of the main reasons for recent losses in tournaments is Rizwan and Babar playing slow innings in high scoring matches their lack of impact in these tournaments show their lack of quality and ability to score when it matters but against weak bowling and flat wickets they are the masters take their averages and rankings with a pinch of salt celebrate when they can do it in tournaments.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Ajmal’s action was reported in 2009 but cleared, it would get worse later but between 09-2012 it was fine. In terms of Sharjeel being picked, are you picking him based on what he has achieved for Pakistan in T20’s or what you’d hope he would/should achieve ?

More on promise than anything but I did pick my openers based on the ability to play horizontal bat shorts. For a brief period, I did feel that Sharjeel became the most enterprising batter in the world but then the downfall came faster than expected. I would have loved to see Saeed Anwar play T20 cricket though, that would be an ideal opener for me in this form of the game.

It's my view that a cricketing team should aim for the moon and if they fail to reach it, so be it. The fear factor and playing middling cricket is something that does not inspire kids to pick cricket up as a sport. A player like Klusener was someone who made me want to emulate him every time I batted. Gilchrist had the same wow factor about him that made one hate and respect him at the same time. It's also a T20 team which is a format where you can assert your dominance within six balls so people playing it should always have that extra gear that they can slide into when needed.

My gripe with the current team is that they have people who don't have the mental capacity to dominate their opponents. People may come at me saying they aren't skilled enough but I've seen a lot of cricket now and I can tell that the skill gap isn't as massive as it's made out to be. There's no way that a medium pacer with average height bowling at 130-135 kph should be able to get away with short balls but they do when they are bowling against Pakistan because the first instinct of our batters now is defense and fear and hence their natural ability is suppressed. There's no bigger handicap in sport than a mental handicap and we are always playing with it now because our players are just too scared to fail and fail inadvertently because of that.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Rizwan, in the position he was brought in for and the player he was brought in to replace had a pathetic average and strike rate

FAILED MIDDLE ORDER BATSMAN

The truth! And he was elevated by a toxic Misbah ul Haq who was adamant to make his blunder look correct when he removed a winning leader in Sarfaraz under the premise of his non performance as a player! Misbah ruined the side by opening with Rizwan who is doing good for himself only. Our team has gone to the dogs! Our captain has become a coward and is also playing for his own stats!

We are fast on the decline! SA, NZ and Aus are below us in the rankings but we all know they are far, faaar superior teams than ours!

This is all thanks to Misbah ul Haq and his blunder of removing a winning captain and strategy in order to promote a FAILED MIDDLE ORDER BATSMAN

And that’s the bottom line….

No more discussion on this with you!

Despite having a thoroughly mediocre career as an ODI batter thus far, Rizwan boasts a better batting average and SR than Kamran Akmal. But I wasn't even talking about that. I was talking about Rizwan's superlative T20I numbers and his SR (132) which happens to be one of the highest ever by a Pakistan T20I opener. For context, Imran Nazir has the highest at 136. Kami boasts a T20I SR of 114.

Your post reads like most of your other posts about Rizwan. A bunch of bad takes without any real concrete facts to back them up. If I was in your position I too would get as flustered as you got here. Because the facts are not on your side and you are driven by a childish dislike towards a player who has improved leaps and bounds in the past two years.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I am leaning towards Riswan and also feel he will achieve great wonders in time, there is no statistic comparison frankly speaking.

But I also think Kamran’s peak was very good and his numbers don’t do his best output justice between 08/09-2010, he was a key part of the world championship winning team and was important at the top a year later in the west indies against some very quality attacks in foreign conditions. [MENTION=141227]BunnyRabbit[/MENTION] has articulated his output quiet well in his post.

On the whole he was inconsistent, but we have to look at the good with the bad. As a person, I think he should get deported to China but as a player there were some great moments/performances in his career, even though I’d like to think a prime version of him would be even more effective now his achilles heel has been his personality.

Bro come on, you can't be serious. This is the guy who cost us the only real opportunity to win a test in Australia in this millennium by repeatedly giving Michael Hussey chance after chance in the 2009 Sydney test. He is the guy who gave Ross Taylor multiple birthday gifts in the 2011 World Cup match until he put Shoaib Akhtar to the sword and closed the book on his career. The amount of frustration this man has given me just because of his atrocious wicket-keeping is something I will never forget. And as far as I am concerned he is the standard bearer for being the worst wicket-keeper batter you can have in your side.

His peak is very short and not nearly enough to take him seriously as a keeper or a batter.

Rizwan for me had eclipsed him two years ago just based on his keeping ability, which is excellent. Now Rizwan is in an entirely different stratosphere as compared as compared to Butterfingers.

 

[Rana]

Bro come on, you can't be serious. This is the guy who cost us the only real opportunity to win a test in Australia in this millennium by repeatedly giving Michael Hussey chance after chance in the 2009 Sydney test. He is the guy who gave Ross Taylor multiple birthday gifts in the 2011 World Cup match until he put Shoaib Akhtar to the sword and closed the book on his career. The amount of frustration this man has given me just because of his atrocious wicket-keeping is something I will never forget. And as far as I am concerned he is the standard bearer for being the worst wicket-keeper batter you can have in your side.

His peak is very short and not nearly enough to take him seriously as a keeper or a batter.

Rizwan for me had eclipsed him two years ago just based on his keeping ability, which is excellent. Now Rizwan is in an entirely different stratosphere as compared as compared to Butterfingers.

Oh Kerra Stratosphere yaaar!

The one his fans have placed him in? Which doesn’t have a T20 World Cup trophy or even. Runner’s up medal?

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Razzaq was on last leg when T20 internationals and World Cup came into existence. So, I won't include him because he didn't do much there or maybe I can't recall much. Asif Ali chased down 20 runs in final over vs Afghanistan in T20 World Cup.

Between Ajmal and Shadab, I have no doubts as to whom should I pick. It will be Shadab everytime. He has a 4-fer in semis vs Australia and overall great numbers.

Asif chased 20 runs in the penultimate over, there was still an over left.

Regarding Razzaq, his introduction in the 2009 wt20 team proved pivotal in changing the balance of the side. Afridi was pushed up to no.3 once Razzaq came into the side and Razzaq was given the finisher job at no.7. In addition to that, he gave an additional bowling option, although his bowling was well past his prime by then but he took 3 early wickets in the final to set the tone. He remained a vital cog in the t20i team for the rest of the year till 2011. We had a streak of 07 or 08 consecutive victories against full strength sides during that period.
He won a few games with the bat alone in that time period, against England in 2010, against NZ in 2010.
His row with Hafeez ended up with him getting cast out of the side by 2012 when he was unceremoniously dropped from the semi final against SL in favor of Tanvir.

Regarding Ajmal, there is a good argument that he failed in 2010 and 2012 semis but he was an unsung hero of 2009 campaign and had great numbers throughout his career. Some blame has to go on the management for using him in the death overs instead of pacers. Ajmal had an bowling avg of around 16 with ER of 6.3 which was amongst the best during that time.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Oh Kerra Stratosphere yaaar!

The one his fans have placed him in? Which doesn’t have a T20 World Cup trophy or even. Runner’s up medal?

Trophies are won by teams. This thread is about his ability as a T20 player. Something you don't seem to fully understand considering you were referencing his ODI stats not too long ago.

Also you saying 'his fans' implies that the people who like him are somehow in the minority. Whereas, its the opposite. It's his haters and detractors that are in the minority.

Also, it doesn't take a genius to deduce the fact that a guy with a Bradmanesque T20I average of 21, a SR of 114 as opener cannot even be compared to a guy with a T20I batting average of 52, a SR of 132 as opener and 21 50+ scores to his name (in just two years).


Kamran Akmal scored 5 fifties in his entire T20I career. Whereas Rizwan scored 4 fifty plus scores in just the last series lmao. That's how far apart these two are as T20 batters. Don't even get me started on wicket-keeping.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

T20I Stats:

[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Matches[/td]
[td]Runs[/td]
[td]Average[/td]
[td]Strike Rate[/td]
[td]6s[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Kamran Akmal[/td]
[td]58[/td]
[td]987[/td]
[td]21[/td]
[td]119[/td]
[td]31[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Mohammad Rizwan[/td]
[td]68[/td]
[td]2,257[/td]
[td]52.53[/td]
[td]128[/td]
[td]64[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

With all due respect to Kamran Akmal he is not even half good when compared to Rizwan in any metric. If we look at other aspects such as work ethic, athleticism, fitness, tactical nous and other non stat areas then Kamran is even less than half the player Rizwan is.

There is a poster who hates Rizwan to the core so I added another stat to the table above which is total number of 6s being hit by each batsmen. As we can see on here Rizwan has comfortably hit 1 six per game whilst Kamran has struggled to even match that stat. There is not even one metric that shows Kamran is even half as good as Rizwan.

His strike-rate as opener is even more pathetic. It's 114. Whereas Rizwan's SR as opener is 132.

I don't get how some posters live under the misconception that Kamran Akmal was somehow an attacking player.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There’s no “Vs”.

Rizwan probably looks up to Kami as a personal hero. The first true keeper-batsman of Pakistan. Before Kami we only went for keepers who could hold a bat, nothing more. He changed the game.

Proud of Rizwan too. Hopefully he inspires a legion of young Pakistani keeper-batsmen as well. Both are class. It’s like 2003 BMW M3 and a 2018 M3, both solid choices in their respective time.

That's some serious whitewashing of history on your part.

First off, there is nothing special about being a mediocre keeper batsman. If anything, Akmal is a blot on the legacy left by great Pakistani keepers like Wasim Bari, Rashid Latif and Moin Khan. Because he was an atrocious keeper who was incompetent at his primary job: keeping wickets. He cost us the Sydney test, he cost us that World Cup match against New Zealand and many more matches over a career that should have ended a decade earlier if the rest of the crop of wicket-keepers in Pakistan wasn't as mediocre.

Also, you're acting as if Akmal was somehow the first keeper to know how to hold a bat. And that someone like Rizwan couldn't just have looked at Gilchrist or Dhoni as an inspiration.

I also highly doubt Rizwan looks up to a guy like Akmal. Infact if he did, he wouldn't be as good as he is behind the stumps. Because all Akmal is, is a case-study in what not to do as a wicket-keeper.

 

[hafizexpress]

Trophies are won by teams. This thread is about his ability as a T20 player. Something you don't seem to fully understand considering you were referencing his ODI stats not too long ago.

Also you saying 'his fans' implies that the people who like him are somehow in the minority. Whereas, its the opposite. It's his haters and detractors that are in the minority.

Also, it doesn't take a genius to deduce the fact that a guy with a Bradmanesque T20I average of 21, a SR of 114 as opener cannot even be compared to a guy with a T20I batting average of 52, a SR of 132 as opener and 21 50+ scores to his name (in just two years).


Kamran Akmal scored 5 fifties in his entire T20I career. Whereas Rizwan scored 4 fifty plus scores in just the last series lmao. That's how far apart these two are as T20 batters. Don't even get me started on wicket-keeping.

Bang on

 

[shamaan]

Kamraan played HUNDREDS of international games uninterrupted and yet averages barely in the 20s. Yet people claim it’s all about the era. Absolute joke.

Forget Malik and Hafeez, the likes of Farhat and Faisal Iqbal were more deserving than Kami.

I agree it's an insult to compare rizwan with Akmal.

 

[Rana]

Trophies are won by teams. This thread is about his ability as a T20 player. Something you don't seem to fully understand considering you were referencing his ODI stats not too long ago.

Also you saying 'his fans' implies that the people who like him are somehow in the minority. Whereas, its the opposite. It's his haters and detractors that are in the minority.

Also, it doesn't take a genius to deduce the fact that a guy with a Bradmanesque T20I average of 21, a SR of 114 as opener cannot even be compared to a guy with a T20I batting average of 52, a SR of 132 as opener and 21 50+ scores to his name (in just two years).


Kamran Akmal scored 5 fifties in his entire T20I career. Whereas Rizwan scored 4 fifty plus scores in just the last series lmao. That's how far apart these two are as T20 batters. Don't even get me started on wicket-keeping.

The teams Kamran Akmal has represented have been able to win a World Cup, played a final and a semi final of the T20 World Cup

Rizwan has the same platform and opportunity as Kamran. We will see if he can do the same with his team.

For now, he has not. So let’s end the discussion here. Your crying will not make Rizwan the world champion like Kamran was, Rizwan’s team and cricket will.

Let cricket do the talking, not your emotions

 

[Rana]

I agree it's an insult to compare rizwan with Akmal.

Indeed it is an insult

Kamran is a former world champion

Rizwan is nobody. Just another Pakistan cricketer as of yet.

 

[shamaan]

Indeed it is an insult

Kamran is a former world champion

Rizwan is nobody. Just another Pakistan cricketer as of yet.

He can be 3 times world champion but he's still a poor man's Rizwan.

 

[Rana]

He can be 3 times world champion but he's still a poor man's Rizwan.

You can never be 3 time world champion unless you fully deserve your spot in the side

Rizwan has one more crack at it this month

Who knows he will be preferred to have a crack at it by the next World Cup?

 

[shamaan]

You can never be 3 time world champion unless you fully deserve your spot in the side

Rizwan has one more crack at it this month

Who knows he will be preferred to have a crack at it by the next World

shahzaib Hassan is also a world champion

 

[shamaan]

You can never be 3 time world champion unless you fully deserve your spot in the side

Rizwan has one more crack at it this month

Who knows he will be preferred to have a crack at it by the next World Cup?

Shahzaib Hassan is also a world champion

 

[Rana]

Shahzaib Hassan is also a world champion

Yes he was carried in one World Cup and he picked up a medal

But did Shahzaib also have a runners up medal and a semi final to his name?

The maidaan is open for Rizwan. Achieve more for his country and be remembered for his services to Pakistan cricket

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

The teams Kamran Akmal has represented have been able to win a World Cup, played a final and a semi final of the T20 World Cup

Rizwan has the same platform and opportunity as Kamran. We will see if he can do the same with his team.

For now, he has not. So let’s end the discussion here. Your crying will not make Rizwan the world champion like Kamran was, Rizwan’s team and cricket will.

Let cricket do the talking, not your emotions

Wasim Haider
Zahid Faisal
Iqbal Sikander
Ravindra Pushpukamara
Sreesanth


Above are the names of some "world champions". Remind me again, where do they stand in the pantheon of cricketing greats?

Cricket has done the talking. All I have quoted here are actual, cold hard numbers. Facts like Rizwan scoring almost as many 50+ scores in the last series as Kami has in his entire career. That said, I don't blame you for giving these emotional responses. I mean its not like you have anything to base your argument on.

 

[shamaan]

Yes he was carried in one World Cup and he picked up a medal

But did Shahzaib also have a runners up medal and a semi final to his name?

The maidaan is open for Rizwan. Achieve more for his country and be remembered for his services to Pakistan cricket

Not sure maybe you can tell me that as I proberly still at school

 

[Rana]

Wasim Haider
Zahid Faisal
Iqbal Sikander
Ravindra Pushpukamara
Sreesanth


Above are the names of some "world champions". Remind me again, where do they stand in the pantheon of cricketing greats?

Cricket has done the talking. All I have quoted here are actual, cold hard numbers. Facts like Rizwan scoring almost as many 50+ scores in the last series as Kami has in his entire career. That said, I don't blame you for giving these emotional responses. I mean its not like you have anything to base your argument on.

Mere paas World Cup hai (Zanjeer “mere paas Maa hai”)

Win a World Cup and let’s talk about humiliating Kamran Akmal in order to glorify Rizwan

Simple.

 

[Suleiman]

That's some serious whitewashing of history on your part.

First off, there is nothing special about being a mediocre keeper batsman. If anything, Akmal is a blot on the legacy left by great Pakistani keepers like Wasim Bari, Rashid Latif and Moin Khan. Because he was an atrocious keeper who was incompetent at his primary job: keeping wickets. He cost us the Sydney test, he cost us that World Cup match against New Zealand and many more matches over a career that should have ended a decade earlier if the rest of the crop of wicket-keepers in Pakistan wasn't as mediocre.

Also, you're acting as if Akmal was somehow the first keeper to know how to hold a bat. And that someone like Rizwan couldn't just have looked at Gilchrist or Dhoni as an inspiration.

I also highly doubt Rizwan looks up to a guy like Akmal. Infact if he did, he wouldn't be as good as he is behind the stumps. Because all Akmal is, is a case-study in what not to do as a wicket-keeper.

A lot of ingratitude in this post. Yes Kami isn’t perfect, he is human after all. Humans fumble the ball at times, which he did.

But he was the first keeper batsman from Pakistan who was batting at another level compared to his predecessors.

Since this is a thread about LOIs and with the next t20 WC in Australia, let us remember his trailblazing innings at the MCG where he decimated all the top Aussie pacers of the time, back in 2010.

A lot of players would feel sorry about themselves for costing their country a test series, but he took it in stride and laughed it off before smashing a brilliant half century in the following t20 game when no one else on his side scored more than 21. A lone warrior.

Rizwan is now carrying on the good work, and has most likely surpassed his hero.

Sick of these so called fans disrespecting our cricketing legends.

 

[Rana]

A lot of ingratitude in this post. Yes Kami isn’t perfect, he is human after all. Humans fumble the ball at times, which he did.

But he was the first keeper batsman from Pakistan who was batting at another level compared to his predecessors.

Since this is a thread about LOIs and with the next t20 WC in Australia, let us remember his trailblazing innings at the MCG where he decimated all the top Aussie pacers of the time, back in 2010.

A lot of players would feel sorry about themselves for costing their country a test series, but he took it in stride and laughed it off before smashing a brilliant half century in the following t20 game when no one else on his side scored more than 21. A lone warrior.

Rizwan is now carrying on the good work, and has most likely surpassed his hero.

Sick of these so called fans disrespecting our cricketing legends.

Good post

You may have come across me writing “Rizwan fans are not Pakistan fans” on this forum

I am being proven right again. Redwood has listed names of individuals who have been blessed in this life with a World Cup’s winner’s medal for their country. This is in order to mock them, belittle their importance in the overall contribution to the championship.

It is a shame. Rizwan fans really need to calm down. Their hero has not achieved any important silverware for his nation, he has the opportunity to make that right this World Cup, and it would be the greatest World Cup win because this is probably the weakest ever Pakistan squad to represent the country in an ICC tournament. If he can win it from here, he will also be remembered in history as a world champion and one of the best ever.

For now, he isn’t there. Kamran Akmal is.

 

[Rana]

Some more harsh facts for Rizwan fans to digest.

In 2008 when Rizwan was practicing his Kenchi/one trick pony shots to fine and Square leg for Peshawar…Kamran Akmal was playing shots all around the park. He was the best Puller and Cut shot player of Pace bowling in all of Pakistan at this point. A year later, he kept his nerve against Muralitharan and Malinga (two of the greatest bowlers in history) and made sure Pakistan tastes World Cup success 17 years after the 1992 World Cup win.

Kamran Akmal in his time has achieved BIG for his country, and he could have been a 3 time world champion instead of one but luck was not gracious to him and Pakistan.

People may forget his contribution because they don’t like him, I will not.

 

[Suleiman]

Good post

You may have come across me writing “Rizwan fans are not Pakistan fans” on this forum

I am being proven right again. Redwood has listed names of individuals who have been blessed in this life with a World Cup’s winner’s medal for their country. This is in order to mock them, belittle their importance in the overall contribution to the championship.

It is a shame. Rizwan fans really need to calm down. Their hero has not achieved any important silverware for his nation, he has the opportunity to make that right this World Cup, and it would be the greatest World Cup win because this is probably the weakest ever Pakistan squad to represent the country in an ICC tournament. If he can win it from here, he will also be remembered in history as a world champion and one of the best ever.

For now, he isn’t there. Kamran Akmal is.

What people don’t understand is that even his dropped catches- actually work in his favor rather than against him.

A couple dropped catches for any other keeper batsman would’ve meant end of a career, it’s hard to recover from mentally.

But Kamran grew from those experiences and became a better leader and player. They were a blessing in disguise for him.

 

[daytrader]

Kamran isn't even the best wicket keeper in his family and posters are comparing him to Rizwan

 

[Energy]

Rizwan is miles ahead of Kamran both as a batter and a keeper. It's not even a close call. The stature that Rizwan currently holds globally as an elite T20I keeper-batter is second only to the beauty of Kamran's teeth.

The noise on this thread is reeking of insecurity and shouldn't distract anyone from the actual facts.

 

[Rana]

Rizwan is miles ahead of Kamran both as a batter and a keeper. It's not even a close call. The stature that Rizwan currently holds globally as an elite T20I keeper-batter is second only to the beauty of Kamran's teeth.

The noise on this thread is reeking of insecurity and shouldn't distract anyone from the actual facts.

Actual facts

Kamran= 1 time world champion

Rizwan= 0

 

[Energy]

Actual facts

Kamran= 1 time world champion

Rizwan= 0

The thread is not about who was part of a world cup winning squad once upon a time.

It's about who is a better T20I player and Rizwan is comfortably ahead of Kamran, Umar and Adnan combined.

 

[Rana]

The thread is not about who was part of a world cup winning squad once upon a time.

It's about who is a better T20I player and Rizwan is comfortably ahead of Kamran, Umar and Adnan combined.

And Kamran was considerably better/good enough to get the job done for his country when it mattered

Rizwan hasn’t done that yet. When he does, we will talk.

 

[Rana]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] you created this Royal rumble match and I have been there from the start as participant no.1

Plenty of these Rizwan jobbers entering and getting eliminated

 

[daytrader]

Actual facts

Kamran= 1 time world champion

Rizwan= 0

By that logic, Misbah, YK and Fawad Alam are all T20i ATGs

 

[Rana]

By that logic, Misbah, YK and Fawad Alam are all T20i ATGs

Misbah and YK deserve a lot of respect for their contributions in the first two world cups

Fawad was a bit of a passenger like Shahzaib Hassan

 

[Energy]

And Kamran was considerably better/good enough to get the job done for his country when it mattered

Rizwan hasn’t done that yet. When he does, we will talk.

Rizwan has already achieved more. He is better than Kamran in every facet. And he is admired by the country and the cricket fraternity more than Kamran ever will be.

The 'being part of a world Cup winning squad' is a desperate attempt by you to make Kamran sound relevant.

 

[Ashmal]

Actual facts

Kamran= 1 time world champion

Rizwan= 0

AbD=0

Kami=1

Kami > AbD

 

[Rana]

Rizwan has already achieved more. He is better than Kamran in every facet. And he is admired by the country and the cricket fraternity more than Kamran ever will be.

The 'being part of a world Cup winning squad' is a desperate attempt by you to make Kamran sound relevant.

Oh yes he’s already achieved more than him without achieving anything.

Not sure how that works but it does in that Stratosphere Redwood was referring to

 

[Rana]

AbD=0

Kami=1

Kami > AbD

Rizwan fans reaching now

 

[Energy]

Oh yes he’s already achieved more than him without achieving anything.

Not sure how that works but it does in that Stratosphere Redwood was referring to

It works in a very simple way. Rizwan has a much superior record than Kamran on all fronts which suggests he is a better cricketer.

Kamran can only dream of Rizwan's current stature in world cricket.

 

[Rana]

It works in a very simple way. Rizwan has a much superior record than Kamran on all fronts which suggests he is a better cricketer.

Kamran can only dream of Rizwan's current stature in world cricket.

But but but that’s not a cricket response is it? Rizwan has a superior record to many greats of the game, and many of those greats have a world T20 trophy before their name whilst Rizwan has not.

Not once have I said Rizwan cannot achieve this feat. He can, he should and you can all put this debate to rest.

In terms of actual cricket, batting…Rizwan isn’t good enough to tie Kamran’s laces. Kamran was a great batsman in his time and he did the job for us by getting us a T20 World Cup.

Rizwan can do it with his ‘greatness’ this month and stamp his superiority once and for all.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Kamran 'unlucky' not to win 3 world cups

Kamrans dropped catches 'work in his favour'

I have seen some crazy statements in my life but nothing like this lol

 

[Rana]

Wicket keeper batsmen who are better than Rizwan right now…

1. Jos Butler
2. Quinton DeQock
3. Mathew Wade
4. Dinesh Kartik
5. Rehmanullah Gurbaz
6. Nicholas Pooran

Forget the rankings, anyone who watches cricket religiously like I do cannot deny this. Gurbaz maybe a stretch but the other 5 are not!

 

[IMMY69]

So what people are saying here is that if Rizwan played in Kamran's era, given his average and strike rate, he would be head and shoulders above Kamran...

 

[Zaz]

Kamran couldnt catch a cold tbh forget being the best t20 wicket keeper batsman pakistan has produced lol

If im not wrong Rizwan has more 50 plus scores in his last 2 series than Akmal senior made in his whole t20 intnl career

If youre gonna make a comparison lets make one of two equally impressive players pls

 

[Rana]

Kamran couldnt catch a cold tbh forget being the best t20 wicket keeper batsman pakistan has produced lol

If im not wrong Rizwan has more 50 plus scores in his last 2 series than Akmal senior made in his whole t20 intnl career

If youre gonna make a comparison lets make one of two equally impressive players pls

Kamaran has one international achievement which Rizwan doesn’t yet.

So let’s be realistic with our over glorification of Rizwan.

So far the fans of Rizwan: “baatain croro ki…dukaan pakoro ki”

 

[Rana]

Kamran v Rizwan silverware comparison

Kamran: Crore

Rizwan: Pakoro ki dukaan

 

[Zaz]

Legend? Lets be honest Kamran is no legend

All that potential and talent but not only he failed with the bat the majority of the time but he also became a suspicious character and a meme, a joke

Legend No way

 

[Pakpak]

Astonishing such comparisons are even made and worse threads are made. Absurd to compare the two. Rizwan is lightyears ahead

 

[Waleed93]

Rizwan averages 50+ in T20Is while Kamran barely manages 20.

Rana : "Kamran has a WC medal to his name."

Rizwan strikes at 132, Kamran doesn't even touch 120.

Rana : "Kamran has a WC medal to his name."

Rizwan has 20+ fifties and a hundred in T20Is.

Rana : "Kamran has a WC medal to his name."

Rizwan has just played one WT20I in his career where he was one of the highest run scorers.

Rana : "Kamran has a WC medal to his name."

Younis Khan had a higher strike rate than Kamran during the WT20I 2009.

Rana : "Kamran has a WC medal to his name."

Kamran is one of the worst keepers to ever play for Pakistan.

Rana : "Kamran has a WC medal to his name."

So, Ramiz Raja > AB de Villiers, because yhe former is WC winner.

Rana : "No, but Kamran has a WC medal to his name."

The story of this thread.

 

[topspin]

But Rizwan was there though. He debuted around 2008/2009 and was on the radar from 2011-12 onwards. Rizwan wasn’t good enough to play for Pakistan until all of these cricketers were eventually gone or phased out due to age or poor form.

Now Rizwan looks great because Kamran’s time is up and has been poor in the latter part of his career whilst Rizwan finally found himself.

Then again, the testimony of greatness in comparisons as such is silverware.

Kamran has achieved big in this regard. Rizwan potentially can, all the best to him.

Kamran certainly had more raw ability than Rizwan as he was more talented but unfortunately he didn't even have the work rate, fitness and right attitudes + behaviour to fulfil even half of his talent.

 

[Rana]

Kamran certainly had more raw ability than Rizwan as he was more talented but unfortunately he didn't even have the work rate, fitness and right attitudes + behaviour to fulfil even half of his talent.

Fair enough. Rizwan has done well. Would be nice to top it up with a World Cup winners medal and end this debate.

Kamran did well in the semi final and final of the T20 2009 World Cup. I personally recon the same Akmal of 2009 today would be a 140+ sr player. He was high quality

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

A lot of ingratitude in this post. Yes Kami isn’t perfect, he is human after all. Humans fumble the ball at times, which he did.

But he was the first keeper batsman from Pakistan who was batting at another level compared to his predecessors.

Since this is a thread about LOIs and with the next t20 WC in Australia, let us remember his trailblazing innings at the MCG where he decimated all the top Aussie pacers of the time, back in 2010.

A lot of players would feel sorry about themselves for costing their country a test series, but he took it in stride and laughed it off before smashing a brilliant half century in the following t20 game when no one else on his side scored more than 21. A lone warrior.

Rizwan is now carrying on the good work, and has most likely surpassed his hero.

Sick of these so called fans disrespecting our cricketing legends.

Look, you can hold a vigil for his mediocre career but don't expect others who suffered through it to join you.

The amount of frustration that Akmal has caused most Pakistani fans who had to witness him throw away match after match because of his atrocious wicket-keeping is simply too high. Whatever mediocre batting ability he had with the bat was completely cancelled out by his utter incompetence behind the stumps.

Yeah, he was the first Pakistani batter to "bat on an another level" but that too is a serious obfuscation of the truth on your part considering his predecessors averaged in the low 20s with the bat.

Oh you mean the T20 game that we also lost? On a tour where we went winless?

Kamran Akmal is not a legend. He never will be. And you are probably the only one on this site that would even use the words "Kamran Akmal" and "legend" in the same sentence in a non-ironic and non-sarcastic way.

Also, unless Rizwan actually says that Kamran Akmal is his hero, you have no right to associate that useless waste of space behind the stumps to a truly world-class cricketer like Rizwan.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Mere paas World Cup hai (Zanjeer “mere paas Maa hai”)

Win a World Cup and let’s talk about humiliating Kamran Akmal in order to glorify Rizwan

Simple.

Why don't you answer the question I asked in the above post? Where do the World Champions I named above stand in the pantheon of cricketing greats?

Also, I don't need to humiliate Akmal. His entire career is a humiliation for Pakistani fans and a damning indictment of where our cricketing system was for decades.

 

[Rana]

Why don't you answer the question I asked in the above post? Where do the World Champions I named above stand in the pantheon of cricketing greats?

Also, I don't need to humiliate Akmal. His entire career is a humiliation for Pakistani fans and a damning indictment of where our cricketing system was for decades.

Mohammad Rizwan’s achievements in the eyes of his fans: Baatain croro ki

Mohammad Rizwan’s achievements as of now in the standings of world champions of pasr and present: Dukaan Pakoro Ki

 

[Ab Fan]

Is Rizwan a better T20 player than Babar?

Perception wise, he definitely isn't.

Stats wise , he is but sample is lesser and he is older too.

What about legacy?

 

[Rana]

Is Rizwan a better T20 player than Babar?

Perception wise, he definitely isn't.

Stats wise , he is but sample is lesser and he is older too.

What about legacy?

Nice post AB. That IPL expertise coming to use

Stats wise Rizwan is better than many legit greats of the game. It’s embarrassing to say he is actually better than those players

Is Rizwan better than Dilshan?