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Most overrated cricketers ever?

Gullycricket

Gullycricket

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I will start this thread with three cricketers

a)Marlon Samuels-Don't understand how this guy played so many matches and features so regularly for WI when his performances are meh.Even in T20 he bats like ODI.
b)Flintoff-Except Ashes 2005 never seen this guy perform but believed to be next coming of Imran Khan
c)Shaun Marsh-Useless player who is there due to Marsh quota .Never seen him perform when needed.

Feel free to add more guys :sarf2
 
Afridi, Akmal, Aamir
Just getting through a’s quite a few to go
 
Overrated cricketers are among those who doesn't mate it to the greats. When a player is acclaimed by his peers and contemporaries as a great, he can't be called overrated.

Keeping that in mind, Mohammad Hafeez is someone whom I'll call overrated.
 
suresh raina - Ind - shone after 5-6 of thrusted experimentation. Played few good knocks but if anyone else had been given that many years they would still be there.
On top of that, the guy applied for pension from UP govt for a paltry (for his level) 50000 INR per month.


mathews - sl - he plays once is 7-8 innings as far as I have seen him.On top of him, just like sangakkara he is a liar. Tried to deprive pak of a test win citing darkness and delaying as far as I remember.

moh.amir- excpet for CT final and a good spell in asia cup I have not seen him live up to the name people credit him for.
 
Perhaps not ever but Eoin Morgan...Unless as a skipper his tactics are on the money, I may not be smart enough on cricket to judge that.

As a player, think he's alright, can do a run-a-ball in the middle overs, as so many can these days - As captain, I remember the Cardiff and T20 defeat a while back by Pakistan and felt he just looked for excuses as to why England "could not" be at their best.
 
Kaka4pope said:
Perhaps not ever but Eoin Morgan...Unless as a skipper his tactics are on the money, I may not be smart enough on cricket to judge that.

As a player, think he's alright, can do a run-a-ball in the middle overs, as so many can these days - As captain, I remember the Cardiff and T20 defeat a while back by Pakistan and felt he just looked for excuses as to why England "could not" be at their best.
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Well he's the leading run-scorer for England in ODIs and a very good skipper someone who English players have directly credited for their success in ODI cricket so I'd say you're wrong.

6500+ runs at an average of 38 and a SR of 89 is pretty good for today's standards.
 
Hafeez
Shoaib Malik
Asad Shafiq

The above 3 are not highly rated on PP and rightly so however among the cricket fraternity they speak very highly of these players particularly with the last name on the list.
 
topspin said:
Hafeez
Shoaib Malik
Asad Shafiq

The above 3 are not highly rated on PP and rightly so however among the cricket fraternity they speak very highly of these players particularly with the last name on the list.
Click to expand...

They are not overated.

Hafeez was quite a valuable cricketer for Pakistan and this is something most ppers have often overlooked.

In a 5 men bowling attack, teams play 4 bowlers and shift the bowling responsibilities between 2 batsmen or part timers. And those were the times when they were attacked

Hafeez use to bowl so well that his economy used to stay below 4. Hafeez would sometimes even be bought in during PP overs.
The guy was a fantastic addition in a team when he was allowed to bowl.

Pakistan won alot of lot target matches because of him.

His bowling was the main factor in reducing the deficit between the chasing runs and the number of balls left.

Shoaib Malik bats very maturely. He doesn't go for the rash shot, and plays very calculatingly. I dont like SHoaib Malik at all as a batsmen. Hate him.

But i have to admit, he is a mature cricketer who knows how to play during a run chase. He guides the team well when batting. He is a good senior player to have.

Asad Shafiq is a talented batsmen. The guy performed in Australia. Problem is, he is quite limited. He doesn't have the capability to go for 200 scores. He is a good player, but someone who scores between 50-100 runs.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Hardik Pandya
KL Rahul
Ahmed Shehzad
Asad Shafiq
Ajinkya Rahane
Angelo Matthews
Click to expand...

Mathews has better stats as a medium pace allrounder than any player in the last decade. in-fact even just as a batsman he is extremely good.. his problem has been his fitness. not sure why he is over rated..
 
Major said:
They are not overated.

Hafeez was quite a valuable cricketer for Pakistan and this is something most ppers have often overlooked.

In a 5 men bowling attack, teams play 4 bowlers and shift the bowling responsibilities between 2 batsmen or part timers. And those were the times when they were attacked

Hafeez use to bowl so well that his economy used to stay below 4. Hafeez would sometimes even be bought in during PP overs.
The guy was a fantastic addition in a team when he was allowed to bowl.

Pakistan won alot of lot target matches because of him.

His bowling was the main factor in reducing the deficit between the chasing runs and the number of balls left.

Shoaib Malik bats very maturely. He doesn't go for the rash shot, and plays very calculatingly. I dont like SHoaib Malik at all as a batsmen. Hate him.

But i have to admit, he is a mature cricketer who knows how to play during a run chase. He guides the team well when batting. He is a good senior player to have.

Asad Shafiq is a talented batsmen. The guy performed in Australia. Problem is, he is quite limited. He doesn't have the capability to go for 200 scores. He is a good player, but someone who scores between 50-100 runs.
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The only thing I rated about Hafeez is his batting on flat Asian decks and his bowling (especially in LOIs) - albeit with a questionable bowling action. But as a batsman he was poor outside Asia in all formats. In tests I believe he has the second worst average for an Asian batsman (in the top 6) in SENA + WI. This comes to no surprise because he averages under 30 in each of these countries (barring Australia where's he never played a test). His test batting of 37.64 has been hugely inflated with runs on dead UAE wickets. However despite his shortcomings he's always insisted that he should bat in the top 3 when really he was a no.6 batsman at best. At least he was valuable 5th bowling option who was particularly a threat to the left handers and capable of picking up the odd wicket as well stemming the flow of runs. Overall a very medicore cricketer.

Shoaib Malik has indeed shown maturity with experience however he is a tail ender against quick bowling and on fast wickets in general. In such situations the only shot he has is that the dab to third man. After scoring a big hundred on extremely dead wickets in Abu Dhabi 4 years ago, he was exposed so badly on a slightly faster wicket in the following test (in Dubai) he was in a hurry to announce his retirement. In Asia he's been an asset but overall a sub-standard batsman who will struggle immensely in the WC this summer.

Asad Shafiq is probably the biggest golden boy Pakistan cricket has ever discovered. Waqar Younis loved him, Mickey Arthur backed him drawing comparisons with Tendulkar, Misbah approved of him, ex-players like Shoaib Akhtar and Mohammad Yousuf were always singing his praises, Sarfraz continues to back him, Channel 9 raved about that one Adelaide knock (in a losing cause) and the Sky Comm. box were in awe of what they saw of him in the nets. But out in the middle he's a lost fish in a different pond! I've never seen any talented player look so timid as he is. At first it may have appeared Pakistan were not able to get the best out of him because of he was batting down at six however hiding down suited him best because he has nearly always looked hopeless under the slightest amount of pressure - which is why moving him up the order never worked. But I will give credit for his ton in the 2016 Oval test where he was an unsung hero for scoring runs while the pitch still had some green tinge to it. Other than that his match defining/winning knocks are as scarce as grass on UAE wickets! Misbah and Waqar are to blame for giving him the nod over the likes of Fawad, Umar, Haris and etc as a long term investment. Averaging under 40 when you are playing half of your games on the deadest wickets in the world is simply inexcusable and substandard at international cricket after 60 test matche which pretty much sums up the golden boy tag perfectly.
 
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Mamoon said:
Amla and Steyn.
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Steyn? I really, really value your posts and you have been probably my favorite poster since the last 3 years or so, but you must have some reason why you think he is overrated?
 
Overrated is IMO very wrong adjective to use.
Seeing the thread so far, ppl seem to be mentioning players who had short/medium duration peaks and then tailed off significantly ala Hafeez, Gambhir, Samuels, Mathews, Gatting etc.
IMO such players careers must be seen in context. For a 3.5 yr period Gambhir was posting legit great numbers. Same for Mathews from 2010-14, Samuels for a brief year or so etc.
The fact that they were crap/avg after that does not mean that they were rated wrongly at the time.

Today there is so much cricket played that eventually career numbers will rate you exactly where you are. Players play till they're no longer good enough. In countries with talent droughts like WI/Pak, downhill players get longer ropes. While past cricketers of 20's-50's would have had stillborn careers due to wars/injury/apartheid and as such their numbers may flatter to deceive from their real potential.

The only player from recent times to have test stats that massively flatter his ability is Afridi, and that was when player himself pulled the plug.
 
Vinod Kambli. Remember he was considered better talent than Sachin Tendulkar.
 
Mamoon said:
Amla and Steyn.
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Agreed with Amla particularly in ODIs.

However in an era of batting friendly wickets, Steyn has shone through as the distinct and undisputed top pace bowler in the world during the 2010s. Yes the wickets in SA are tailor made for his bowling but he has done it everywhere.

All the other bowlers who have played at least 50 tests from 2010 onwards have averaged no less than the mid 20s equating to a large difference 10-15%. You can't seriously still think he's overrated?
 
srh said:
Vinod Kambli. Remember he was considered better talent than Sachin Tendulkar.
Click to expand...

It was just a small minority. Sachin proved his talent with Test centuries in his very first tour of Australia (2 centuries including one in the lightning fast Perth pitch), England and South Africa even before he turned 20. Kambli was said by some to be a talent as good as Sachin when he came to the scene.
 
Hitman said:
Steyn? I really, really value your posts and you have been probably my favorite poster since the last 3 years or so, but you must have some reason why you think he is overrated?
Click to expand...

For the bulk of his career, he played alongside the best batting lineup in the world. The other three teams (during this period) with the best batting lineups were India, England and Australia, and his record against two of these three teams is nothing special.

In ODIs, he did nothing of note outside bashing a poor Pakistan lineup in 2013, and got owned by Elliott in a World Cup Semifinal, arguably the biggest ODI game of his career.

He is a fantastic bowler, but I don’t think he in the top 5 bowlers of all time as he is commonly considered on PP. He has also failed to capture the imagination of the casual fans the way the likes of McGrath, Wasim, Warne, Donald, Lillee, Marshall etc. did.

For these reasons, I think he is overrated. I wouldn’t have called him one of people were satisfied in placing him among the top 20 bowlers of all time, but if you are calling him one of the top five pacers ever, let alone the best of all time, then you are definitely overrating him.

For me, he is nothing more than a great Test bowler.
 
topspin said:
Agreed with Amla particularly in ODIs.

However in an era of batting friendly wickets, Steyn has shone through as the distinct and undisputed top pace bowler in the world during the 2010s. Yes the wickets in SA are tailor made for his bowling but he has done it everywhere.

All the other bowlers who have played at least 50 tests from 2010 onwards have averaged no less than the mid 20s equating to a large difference 10-15%. You can't seriously still think he's overrated?
Click to expand...

Please refer to my previous post. I have explained why I think he is overrated.
 
Mamoon said:
For the bulk of his career, he played alongside the best batting lineup in the world. The other three teams (during this period) with the best batting lineups were India, England and Australia, and his record against two of these three teams is nothing special.

In ODIs, he did nothing of note outside bashing a poor Pakistan lineup in 2013, and got owned by Elliott in a World Cup Semifinal, arguably the biggest ODI game of his career.

He is a fantastic bowler, but I don’t think he in the top 5 bowlers of all time as he is commonly considered on PP. He has also failed to capture the imagination of the casual fans the way the likes of McGrath, Wasim, Warne, Donald, Lillee, Marshall etc. did.

For these reasons, I think he is overrated. I wouldn’t have called him one of people were satisfied in placing him among the top 20 bowlers of all time, but if you are calling him one of the top five pacers ever, let alone the best of all time, then you are definitely overrating him.

For me, he is nothing more than a great Test bowler.
Click to expand...

Alright, you don't consider him among the top 5 Test bowlers ever. But what about the top 10? One name that comes into my mind here is Waqar Younis, and that's because both him and Steyn have both had magnificent strike rates. Do you personally rate him among the top 10 Test bowlers ever, and how do you measure him up with Waqar?
 
Mohammad Amir has to be right up there.

Has any other 30-averaging bowler who avoids the UAE ever been given so much airtime?
 
Gullycricket said:
I will start this thread with three cricketers

a)Marlon Samuels-Don't understand how this guy played so many matches and features so regularly for WI when his performances are meh.Even in T20 he bats like ODI.
b)Flintoff-Except Ashes 2005 never seen this guy perform but believed to be next coming of Imran Khan
c)Shaun Marsh-Useless player who is there due to Marsh quota .Never seen him perform when needed.

Feel free to add more guys :sarf2
Click to expand...

Flintoff has performed many times other than Ashes 2005. Played a role in drawing ODI series in India for example.
Samuels is a bit on and off kind of player.
 
Varun said:
Mohammad Amir has to be right up there.

Has any other 30-averaging bowler who avoids the UAE ever been given so much airtime?
Click to expand...

He didn't avoid UAE anytime he only missed few matches, Amir was given rest for the first time in his career which was mentioned by our Chief Selector.
 
Arsalan Pro said:
It's not our fault that Virat Kohli rates him so highly.
Click to expand...

Kohli rates every Pakistani highly. Don't read too much into it - it's part of a diplomacy push to be friendly on the field towards the 2 neighbours (Sri Lanka and Pakistan). Don't ask me how I know.

Ultimately, Amir's numbers speak for himself and in spite of playing as many as 35 tests including that green mamba series in England in 2010, the supposed next Wasim Akram averages a dismal 30.73.

And this thread is outside the numbers - it asks who is the most overrated player. Amir is king, since there has been endless hype since before, during and after his ban and the performances on the field barely match up to it.
 
Mamoon said:
For the bulk of his career, he played alongside the best batting lineup in the world. The other three teams (during this period) with the best batting lineups were India, England and Australia, and his record against two of these three teams is nothing special.

In ODIs, he did nothing of note outside bashing a poor Pakistan lineup in 2013, and got owned by Elliott in a World Cup Semifinal, arguably the biggest ODI game of his career.

He is a fantastic bowler, but I don’t think he in the top 5 bowlers of all time as he is commonly considered on PP. He has also failed to capture the imagination of the casual fans the way the likes of McGrath, Wasim, Warne, Donald, Lillee, Marshall etc. did.

For these reasons, I think he is overrated. I wouldn’t have called him one of people were satisfied in placing him among the top 20 bowlers of all time, but if you are calling him one of the top five pacers ever, let alone the best of all time, then you are definitely overrating him.

For me, he is nothing more than a great Test bowler.
Click to expand...

I agree with you in ODIs he wasn't special but still world class, falling short of great and legendary levels of calibre in respect of limited overs cricket..

I acknowledge your arguments in regards to test cricket but my point still stands, he was head and shoulders above any bowler during the 2010s. So it doesn't make much sense to say he's overrated when he's the best in his generation. If it wasn't for injuries in the last few years no doubt he would have exceeded 500 wickets and probably eyeing up 600.

I do think there is a double standard with how you view Steyn and Anderson. If I recall correctly you have been adamant that Anderson is an ATG however I believe the contrary to this. For me he is massively overrated and has spent more than half of his career averaging 30+. The gulf in class is evident from the difference in test bowling averages; Anderson currently averages 19% higher than Steyn. Not to forget he has been playing at home with the Duke ball and overcast conditions. The South African has done it with a less receptive Kookaburra ball but has managed to overcome this along with his sub six foot height on bouncy wickets with great pace and bowling skills.

Away from home Anderson is about half the potent bowler and a real mismatch to the Protea as far as I'm concerned when it comes to bowling in overseas conditions - hence the "Clouderson" tag. Moreover you're critical of Steyn's ODI career but if we talk about Anderson in this respect the brutal truth is he's a limited overs failure averaging almost 30, yet you seem to think they're somehow in the same league...
 
Varun said:
Mohammad Amir has to be right up there.

Has any other 30-averaging bowler who avoids the UAE ever been given so much airtime?
Click to expand...

I agree Amir isn't that good but we have to play him because we don't have a legendary bowling attack in the making.

But I don't think you can say he's overrated because not many thought he would be back after a 5 year ban. To come back into the game after such a long absence is no small matter. Saqlain Mushtaq after his knee injury not only was he finished for Pakistan but was also redundant at domestic level for Surrey a few years later.

Despite Amir's six year absence in international cricket we've seen some glimpses of brilliance from him such as the 2016 Asia Cup, 2017 CT final and a decent 2018 in tests.

Overall he's a limited test bowler because he struggles bowling with the kookaburra in less swing/seam friendly bowling conditions like in Asia and Australia. He's a duke and grass track specialist in tests.

In ODIs he bowls economically consistently and has a good track record in ICC events. As for succession planning is concerned I think Pakistan shouldn't play him after the 2020 WT20 next year. I don't think he has much more cricket left in him but as cricket and Pakistan fans we need to cherish what has been a short lived career.
 
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Gullycricket said:
b)Flintoff-Except Ashes 2005 never seen this guy perform but believed to be next coming of Imran Khan
c
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Flintoff was very good in tests for around three years. Prior to that Nasser used him as a FM stock bowler and his returns were poor. He got a lot better when he bowled quicker and pitched it up more. After Ashes 2005 he picked up heel injuries and his batting suffered, though he was still fast and nasty. Langer said Flintoff was his least favourite bowler to face because it just hurt - the heavy balls jarring the hands, the rapped knuckles, the bruises.

Flintoff was also one of England's better ODI players.

I can't think of anyone "overrated" really, I think it's a disrespectful term.
 
If Steyn and Anderson is overrated then so is Kholi.

His record in big game knockout matches is terrible: getting owned by even Rubel Hossain in QF WC 15, then by Johnson in Semis, then getting owned by Amir in Final of CT to gone missing in Asia Cup.
 
topspin said:
Away from home Anderson is about half the potent bowler and a real mismatch to the Protea as far as I'm concerned when it comes to bowling in overseas conditions - hence the "Clouderson" tag.
Click to expand...

Not that simple as he has done well in UAE and West Indies, and not so well in NZ where you would expect big returns in the conditions similar to England. He is lethal with the Duke ball, not so good with the Kookaburra.
 
Robert said:
Not that simple as he has done well in UAE and West Indies, and not so well in NZ where you would expect big returns in the conditions similar to England. He is lethal with the Duke ball, not so good with the Kookaburra.
Click to expand...

Since most test sides have adopted the Kookaburra this pretty much backs up the quote taken from post 44.
 
Azhar Ali, Kevin Pietersen and Muhammad Amir come to mind immediately. Pak tops the list in this one.
 
BDfanforever said:
If Steyn and Anderson is overrated then so is Kholi.

His record in big game knockout matches is terrible: getting owned by even Rubel Hossain in QF WC 15, then by Johnson in Semis, then getting owned by Amir in Final of CT to gone missing in Asia Cup.
Click to expand...

Rohit Sharmaji should be a GOAT according to you because he scored a hundred against BD in a QF. Sorry to say but nobody has ever been rated or overrated or underrated for their performances against BD.

On topic, anybody and everybody that's been compared to Wasim Akram is overrated. That's Zaheer, Irfan Pathan, Amir, Junaid, Fizz.
 
Faf Du plesis
Shoaib Malik
Mark Wood
Quite a few of the current Australian players
 
BDfanforever said:
If Steyn and Anderson is overrated then so is Kholi.

His record in big game knockout matches is terrible: getting owned by even Rubel Hossain in QF WC 15, then by Johnson in Semis, then getting owned by Amir in Final of CT to gone missing in Asia Cup.
Click to expand...

Conveniently missed the T20 WC exploits. Or KO matches in those don't count? Check out the 30 odd in WC 2011 final what he did under what circumstances. Since you are a Ban fan, you might not know about those. Yes, it is a travesty he got dismissed by Rubel, i can give you that.

Asia cup final in 2016 against the mighty Ban, check that out
 
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BDfanforever said:
If Steyn and Anderson is overrated then so is Kholi.

His record in big game knockout matches is terrible: getting owned by even Rubel Hossain in QF WC 15, then by Johnson in Semis, then getting owned by Amir in Final of CT to gone missing in Asia Cup.
Click to expand...

Since you brought CT, he averages 101 in CT knockouts unless of course you think only CT 2017 final counts.
 
Rana said:
KP has played some of the best knocks I have seen ever!
Click to expand...

Of course he has. Amir has taken wickets as well and Azhar scored runs too but are not as good as people think.
 
Pakistan cricket from 1994 to 2003.
Everything thereafter was mediocre or too short lived to count.
 
Hafeez, malik, asad, azhar, misbah the test player

Someone mentioned flintoss, what an idiot, Flintoff was one of the finest allrounders ever, stats arents everything he was a big impact player
 
If Steyn is overrated, then every fast bowler of this era is overrated.

If we remember well, the pitches he was served in England tours have mostly been dry and flat ones, particularly, to nullify the threat of Steyn. There is a reason Amla averages some 70-80 there. In the same matches in England, we have James Anderson averaging almost 40, while Steyn still averaged 31.

Steyn has a great record on the toughest place for fast bowler where they also have to stood up against some of the greatest batsmen to have come from last 25 years- India.

He has an away record of 25 in this era of home track bullies, which clearly puts him in the league of top 10 fast bowlers of all-time, if not top 5. Personally, I can't think of many other names except Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Wasim(due to his ODI exploits), Imran, Donald and Ambrose who can have a case to be considered better than Steyn as a fast bowler.

I will rate him in the same league as Donald, although latter bowled with more fire, aggression and had more fear factor and higher than the likes of Waqar Younis, Shaun Pollock and Courtney Walsh.
 
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KL Rahul is massively overrated. Never rated him personally, and some Indian fans were putting him above Kohli lol.

Useless hacks like Rahul aside, I find Anderson overrated. Has poor away records and a big home bully in tests. Nothing impressive in ODIs as well.
 
Gullycricket said:
I will start this thread with three cricketers

a)Marlon Samuels-Don't understand how this guy played so many matches and features so regularly for WI when his performances are meh.Even in T20 he bats like ODI.
b)Flintoff-Except Ashes 2005 never seen this guy perform but believed to be next coming of Imran Khan
c)Shaun Marsh-Useless player who is there due to Marsh quota .Never seen him perform when needed.

Feel free to add more guys :sarf2
Click to expand...

Samuel single handedly won WI ODI series against India in India in 2005... was well supported by Sarwan
 
This one has to be Afridi. I can't think of anyone more deserving for this than him.

Man not only lost crucial matches with his pathetic batting but messed up batting for an entire generation of Pakistani kids who think that consistently scoring 21 (15) with 1 six is the mark of a great batsman.
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is a top notch poster but he got it wrong here.. No one rates Steyn the ODI bowler as anything special so he's not overrated in ODI's.

For tests he is top 10 bowlers of all time, if you are in top 10 of all time then there will always be arguments in your favour for people rating you as the best.. Every 10 bowlers in top 10 have their pros to be ranked as the best ever.. That doesn't mean they are overrated just means that when you are at that position your fans will have material to make a case for you being the best.

For me Amir had been hyped so much that after 3 years post ban he seems to have been overrated.

KL Rahul was overrated by most Indians.
 
Mirpur express said:
Shahid Afridi by far
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I don't think anyone not a fan boy ever rated afridi as anything exceptional.. He was a hit or a miss kind of a player and most of the times it was a miss .. Everyone knew that it's just that his entertainment value made him a lot of fans.
 
Also every bowler has one team or even 3 against whom he does less well than others. He has still.won saf a series in australia in 2008 where the scores in general were quite high. He was a force of nature in and against india mind. Mamoon says he 'did not capture imagination' like some bowlers among whom he mentioned Steyn and Ambrose. :P really? 2 boring like and length merchant who often got batsmen out by just bowling a nagging line n length as against someone who has bowled spells of destructive reverse swing on many an occasion. I wonder what that makes Jimmy anderson then who is a much inferior bowler.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Anderson
Zaheer khan
Hassan ali
Yasir shah
Click to expand...

Zaheer Khan isn't really overrated. He is fondly rememeberer but nobody calls him a top bowler in any format. He served India well when India didn't have a singe good pacer for over half a decade

Too early to call Hasan Ali overrated, he was out of form in ODIs last year.

Agree with Anderson and Yasir Shah
 
Amir would be on top of the list.

Sarfraz - Mediocre performer who was hyped by GEO 24/7.
 
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