Muslim cricket star Usman Khawaja's fiancée, 22, reveals why she converted to Islam

[cricketworm]

Sure.

But am I the only one who is bothered that she is 9 years younger than him? Love is blind but still 9 years apart kuchh zyada ho gaya

But needless to say they look very cute couple.

 

[Madplayer]

Sure.

But am I the only one who is bothered that she is 9 years younger than him? Love is blind but still 9 years apart kuchh zyada ho gaya

But needless to say they look very cute couple.

Eh?
Only a kid would say something like this.

Shikhar Dhawan's wife is 10 years older than him. Yes , Wife. Not shikhar.

 

[cricketworm]

I prefer multi religion celebrators over atheist. She converts to Islam doesn't mean UZ and her won't go and celebrate Christmas or her family won't go to UZ's house for Eid. Respect for both religion will increase ten - fold both sides. Win win situation to be honest for both religion, thanks to Rachel's clear sacrifice.

Rachel wins the first battle of many in near future.

 

[cricketworm]

Eh?
Only a kid would say something like this.

Shikhar Dhawan's wife is 10 years older than him. Yes , Wife. Not shikhar.

I have a kid now, I wish I can call myself kid now.

It's my personal preference. My personal maximum limit is younger than 5. Imagine when she was born UZ was very close to puberty. How does that sound? Whole decade of difference.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Sure.

But am I the only one who is bothered that she is 9 years younger than him? Love is blind but still 9 years apart kuchh zyada ho gaya

But needless to say they look very cute couple.

Wow, 9 years difference? Maybe he trussed her up in a room and forced her to sign a contract to wear a burka in social media pics. I am sure Mamoon and saadibaba will be along shortly to agree with your misgivings about the age difference.

 

[Mamoon]

1)Why is it a disease? It is prescribed by your religion to invite people to Islam. Are you saying your religion has given you a disease?

2) so are you saying she was pressurised and it wasn't out of her love for Usman?

We have an obsession with converting non-Muslims and take great pride in the fact that every year XYZ number of people embrace Islam. Yes Islam encourages daawah, but at the same time, it also says that there is no compulsion in religion. Unfortunately, majority of Muslims (who marry non-Muslims) end up blurring the lines between the two.

If you tell your wife/girlfriend that it is your choice and I am not putting you under pressure, but I would prefer if you become a Muslim and it is something important to me, you are already contradicting yourself - you are clearly being persuasive.

We do not know Usman or his family, so we really do not know the conversations that took place between him and his fiancee, so we can only go by her statements. Based on her statements, it is pretty clear that Usman put indirect pressure on her.

Telling her that it (her conversion) matters to him and is important cannot be interpreted in a different way, so I do not see the purpose of sugarcoating it and making it look like she converted purely out of love without any influence.

Obviously, he did not force her to convert. Forced conversion would be you do what I say or it is over. That clearly did not happen.

Now my problem with the narrative that it was done purely out of love is because it is usually one-way traffic only. If a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman, nine out of ten times the woman ends up embracing Islam. Maybe one in a hundred Muslim man would end up converting to his wife's religion, but it rarely, rarely happens.

So if it is out of love only, why doesn't the man convert? Is it a co-incidence? Clearly not. This train of thought would have had legs if a good percentage of Muslim men would end up converting "out of love".

Furthermore, my personal opinion on all this daawah and conversion business is that we have to move on with times. I believe that advertising Islam and encouraging others to embrace the faith was a necessity at that time.

However, with over 1.8 billion Muslims in the world today with a lot of them breeding like rabbits, I really do think people need to mind their own business and try to make themselves better Muslims, rather than obsessing with that non-Muslims do.

 

[Mamoon]

She live in a free country, she is a capable adult who can make her own decision. If she didn't want to she could have find other suitable partner and from the looks of it she could have easily.

If this scenario was being played out in a third world country then your comment would probably made any sense in an attempt to come off of as different than you were born into.

It does not matter where it happens. Muslims all over the world have an obsession with converting non-Muslims to Islam, and it generally becomes a problem when a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman, because it usually one way traffic only in the name of love of course.

Secondly, it appears that she was not a staunch Catholic in the first place. Obviously a religious nutter would not convert for the sake of love, but she did not see it as a big deal to change her religion for the man of her dreams.

Moreover, the Islamic ideology that you are either a Muslim or destined for Hell is a massive deterrent. That is why most Muslims do not want to leave Islam even if they want to, and some of them end up as closet atheists. The Non-Muslim wife/girlfriend are aware - or are made aware - of this, which is why they are the ones who end up compromising.

A marriage between a staunch Muslim man and a staunch Christian or Hindu woman is not going to work unless they both decide to follow their own respective religions, which is generally not the case because it becomes a problem when they have kids. A staunch Muslim man cannot tolerate his children to be influenced by another religion and vice versa.

Hence, the general trend in such marriages is the guy is usually not a very practicing Muslim (a very practicing Muslim would be averse to marrying a non-Muslim), while the girl is not particularly religious either (a religious non-Muslim would be averse to marrying a Muslim).

Obviously not all women who marry Muslim men ends up converting, but if they do, it is because the opportunity cost of not converting are quite high. If you are not a religious person, you will not risk destroying your relationship - or putting stumbling blocks in the way - for a religion that you never really cared for to begin with, and you will eventually end up becoming a Muslim to please your partner.

This is not a compromise in my view. If it was a compromise, why don't we see Muslim men converting? Why does the non-Muslim women have to compromise all the time?

 

[ManFan]

It does not matter where it happens. Muslims all over the world have an obsession with converting non-Muslims to Islam, and it generally becomes a problem when a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman, because it usually one way traffic only in the name of love of course.

Secondly, it appears that she was not a staunch Catholic in the first place. Obviously a religious nutter would not convert for the sake of love, but she did not see it as a big deal to change her religion for the man of her dreams.

Moreover, the Islamic ideology that you are either a Muslim or destined for Hell is a massive deterrent. That is why most Muslims do not want to leave Islam even if they want to, and some of them end up as closet atheists. The Non-Muslim wife/girlfriend are aware - or are made aware - of this, which is why they are the ones who end up compromising.

A marriage between a staunch Muslim man and a staunch Christian or Hindu woman is not going to work unless they both decide to follow their own respective religions, which is generally not the case because it becomes a problem when they have kids. A staunch Muslim man cannot tolerate his children to be influenced by another religion and vice versa.

Hence, the general trend in such marriages is the guy is usually not a very practicing Muslim (a very practicing Muslim would be averse to marrying a non-Muslim), while the girl is not particularly religious either (a religious non-Muslim would be averse to marrying a Muslim).

Obviously not all women who marry Muslim men ends up converting, but if they do, it is because the opportunity cost of not converting are quite high. If you are not a religious person, you will not risk destroying your relationship - or putting stumbling blocks in the way - for a religion that you never really cared for to begin with, and you will eventually end up becoming a Muslim to please your partner.

This is not a compromise in my view. If it was a compromise, why don't we see Muslim men converting? Why does the non-Muslim women have to compromise all the time?

Why would a non-religious Catholic woman convert to Islam for the incorrect belief that all Non-Muslims will go to hell in Islam?

 

[ManFan]

It does not matter where it happens. Muslims all over the world have an obsession with converting non-Muslims to Islam, and it generally becomes a problem when a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman, because it usually one way traffic only in the name of love of course.

Secondly, it appears that she was not a staunch Catholic in the first place. Obviously a religious nutter would not convert for the sake of love, but she did not see it as a big deal to change her religion for the man of her dreams.

Moreover, the Islamic ideology that you are either a Muslim or destined for Hell is a massive deterrent. That is why most Muslims do not want to leave Islam even if they want to, and some of them end up as closet atheists. The Non-Muslim wife/girlfriend are aware - or are made aware - of this, which is why they are the ones who end up compromising.

A marriage between a staunch Muslim man and a staunch Christian or Hindu woman is not going to work unless they both decide to follow their own respective religions, which is generally not the case because it becomes a problem when they have kids. A staunch Muslim man cannot tolerate his children to be influenced by another religion and vice versa.

Hence, the general trend in such marriages is the guy is usually not a very practicing Muslim (a very practicing Muslim would be averse to marrying a non-Muslim), while the girl is not particularly religious either (a religious non-Muslim would be averse to marrying a Muslim).

Obviously not all women who marry Muslim men ends up converting, but if they do, it is because the opportunity cost of not converting are quite high. If you are not a religious person, you will not risk destroying your relationship - or putting stumbling blocks in the way - for a religion that you never really cared for to begin with, and you will eventually end up becoming a Muslim to please your partner.

This is not a compromise in my view. If it was a compromise, why don't we see Muslim men converting? Why does the non-Muslim women have to compromise all the time?

The Non-Muslim women has to convert because if the man is a staunch Muslim than their children will be neither of the two. Therefore, if the man leaves Islam, the children will not become Muslim. However, if the woman embraces Islam (whole-heartingly) than she will teach her children about Islam rather than making them unaware of any monotheistic belief set.

 

[cricketworm]

Wow, 9 years difference? Maybe he trussed her up in a room and forced her to sign a contract to wear a burka in social media pics. I am sure Mamoon and saadibaba will be along shortly to agree with your misgivings about the age difference.

And our brigadiers from UK who would waive the flag with snarky comments to poster's opinions and we will wait for next thread to get disagree on. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Mamoon]

Why would a non-religious Catholic woman convert to Islam for the incorrect belief that all Non-Muslims will go to hell in Islam?

For the betterment of their relationship, since she knows that her man will not leave his faith and he also wants you to join him. If you do not care about your religion, and neither does your religion lay emphasis on why it is the only true way to salvation, why not convert?

 

[saadibaba]

I cant believe some of the posts here.

You tell your wife that you would like if she learns how to cook a particular dish for you. Its a simple statement but politicians and psychologists of PP would know the hidden meaning behind your innocent statement and tell you that, " we know what you mean by that. We know it better than you. You are basically giving your wife an ultimatum to learn that dish. Thats what you mean ".

In marriage, compromises have to be made. In this case one compromise happens to be and non-forced conversion. The ones who dont bend in a relationship break. Probably the cause of high divorce rates in individualist western societies.

In this case the lady made a compromise in an open western society where she could not have been forced especially in a high profile affair such as her's. We dont know what compromises Khwaja has made in all of this. Obviously that would never come to the fore.

You can call it a compromise, my point was this conversion should not be read by Muslims as some victory or proof of how their religion is superior or something so glorious to congratulate each other over. Just wish the couple good luck and move on. Conversions like these happen all the time, its no big deal.

 

[Mamoon]

The Non-Muslim women has to convert because if the man is a staunch Muslim than their children will be neither of the two. Therefore, if the man leaves Islam, the children will not become Muslim. However, if the woman embraces Islam (whole-heartingly) than she will teach her children about Islam rather than making them unaware of any monotheistic belief set.

If a non-Muslim is not staunch in her faith, she will not care if her children become Muslims. If it bothers her, it means she (a) has a problem with Islam or (b) she wants her children to follow her faith. If she subscribes to either of the two school of thoughts, it is highly unlikely that she would end up marrying a Muslim in the first place.

 

[ManFan]

For the betterment of their relationship, since she knows that her man will not leave his faith and he also wants you to join him. If you do not care about your religion, and neither does your religion lay emphasis on why it is the only true way to salvation, why not convert?

My question was on the specific point you raised about Non-Muslim girlfriends/women who are aware of the belief (incorrect) that Non-Muslims will go to hell. Did you mean THEY convert out of fear of this belief or convert because their significant others will not leave Islam because of it?

 

[R3verse Swing]

It is clear the Islamophobes are hurting in this thread. They say congratulate the couple and move on, like they congratulated the couple yet made snide comments towards Islam.

The couple are a fantastic advert for Islam, especially in Australia.

Awareness.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Khwaza is a great catch. desi family values coupled with western education is a great combo. Such people make ideal husbands and fathers.

 

[saadibaba]

It is clear the Islamophobes are hurting in this thread. They say congratulate the couple and move on, like they congratulated the couple yet made snide comments towards Islam.

The couple are a fantastic advert for Islam, especially in Australia.

Awareness.

This is the attitude which I was talking about. Two people decide to make it through in this world full of social and religious hierarchies and supposed norms by compromising for one another and Islamophiles can't help turning them into an advert for their own religious and political agendas.

 

[LegCutter]

I am not one to say this often and i
I often don't find Caucasian women that attractive but she is beautiful. I had to Google her to find more pictures of her, and I find her very, very attractive.

Good job Usman. Converting to Islam is showing a strong sense of loyalty and sacrifice from her end as well, going all in into this relationship. I hope Usman doesn't let her down, some celebrities have a reputation for looking for greener grass after they get bored.

 

[Madplayer]

We have an obsession with converting non-Muslims and take great pride in the fact that every year XYZ number of people embrace Islam. Yes Islam encourages daawah, but at the same time, it also says that there is no compulsion in religion. Unfortunately, majority of Muslims (who marry non-Muslims) end up blurring the lines between the two.

If you tell your wife/girlfriend that it is your choice and I am not putting you under pressure, but I would prefer if you become a Muslim and it is something important to me, you are already contradicting yourself - you are clearly being persuasive.

We do not know Usman or his family, so we really do not know the conversations that took place between him and his fiancee, so we can only go by her statements. Based on her statements, it is pretty clear that Usman put indirect pressure on her.

Telling her that it (her conversion) matters to him and is important cannot be interpreted in a different way, so I do not see the purpose of sugarcoating it and making it look like she converted purely out of love without any influence.

Obviously, he did not force her to convert. Forced conversion would be you do what I say or it is over. That clearly did not happen.

Now my problem with the narrative that it was done purely out of love is because it is usually one-way traffic only. If a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman, nine out of ten times the woman ends up embracing Islam. Maybe one in a hundred Muslim man would end up converting to his wife's religion, but it rarely, rarely happens.

So if it is out of love only, why doesn't the man convert? Is it a co-incidence? Clearly not. This train of thought would have had legs if a good percentage of Muslim men would end up converting "out of love".

Furthermore, my personal opinion on all this daawah and conversion business is that we have to move on with times. I believe that advertising Islam and encouraging others to embrace the faith was a necessity at that time.

However, with over 1.8 billion Muslims in the world today with a lot of them breeding like rabbits, I really do think people need to mind their own business and try to make themselves better Muslims, rather than obsessing with that non-Muslims do.

That sounds absurd. Usman being honest with her about his preferences means he is pressuring her? Perhaps he should have lied to her then?

Secondly the FACT is these two people came together, fell in love and wanted to marry. The woman was most probably indifferent towards her own religion so she accepted her husband's religion just to make things smoother between them. Her Choice. An understanding was reached. Case closed.

Why a muslim man doesnt convert? Again His choice. A muslim man and non muslim woman come together. Both of them are NOT indifferent towards their respective religions. They talk about it and they feel they cant continue to be together while practicing different religions. They separate. Case closed. Their choice. If the muslim man is indifferent towards his religion, he might convert to make things smoother between him and his wife. Again, his choice.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It does not matter where it happens. Muslims all over the world have an obsession with converting non-Muslims to Islam, and it generally becomes a problem when a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman, because it usually one way traffic only in the name of love of course.

Secondly, it appears that she was not a staunch Catholic in the first place. Obviously a religious nutter would not convert for the sake of love, but she did not see it as a big deal to change her religion for the man of her dreams.

Moreover, the Islamic ideology that you are either a Muslim or destined for Hell is a massive deterrent. That is why most Muslims do not want to leave Islam even if they want to, and some of them end up as closet atheists. The Non-Muslim wife/girlfriend are aware - or are made aware - of this, which is why they are the ones who end up compromising.

A marriage between a staunch Muslim man and a staunch Christian or Hindu woman is not going to work unless they both decide to follow their own respective religions, which is generally not the case because it becomes a problem when they have kids. A staunch Muslim man cannot tolerate his children to be influenced by another religion and vice versa.

Hence, the general trend in such marriages is the guy is usually not a very practicing Muslim (a very practicing Muslim would be averse to marrying a non-Muslim), while the girl is not particularly religious either (a religious non-Muslim would be averse to marrying a Muslim).

Obviously not all women who marry Muslim men ends up converting, but if they do, it is because the opportunity cost of not converting are quite high. If you are not a religious person, you will not risk destroying your relationship - or putting stumbling blocks in the way - for a religion that you never really cared for to begin with, and you will eventually end up becoming a Muslim to please your partner.

This is not a compromise in my view. If it was a compromise, why don't we see Muslim men converting? Why does the non-Muslim women have to compromise all the time?

Well Mamoon, I am going to take issue with your first comment that Muslims all over the world are obsessed with converting non-Muslims, because frankly, that is not even close to the truth. Perhaps you are talking about Islamic countries, but that means all Muslims would be running about doing dawah, but is that what you do?

Secondly, we are talking about a player who lives in Australia, do you really think he got married in order to convert a non-Muslim?

Finally, I am concerned that your post ranks of sexism and possibly racism. You seem to be implying that this Aussie girl has no mind of her own, and has somehow been coerced into taking on the religion against her will. Poor her! How feeble she must be, she's only a poor woman with a delicate mentality and being a woman she couldn't resist Usman's fiendish foreign charms!

 

[R3verse Swing]

This is the attitude which I was talking about. Two people decide to make it through in this world full of social and religious hierarchies and supposed norms by compromising for one another and Islamophiles can't help turning them into an advert for their own religious and political agendas.

I do not know which part of the world you live in, but these days anything to do with Islam makes the front page of news in the West. The OP is no different. However my point was that people like you relish the opportunity to diss Islam, even it means congratulating a couple, where a women who chooses to embrace Islam.

The Western media puts Islam on the frontpage, not Islamophiles.

 

[Sirris]

It could if he wanted to, he's living in Australia. But in any case, from the reports, it seems she wanted to convert to Islam herself so your entire narrative is hopelessly out of place.

He could if he wanted to, yes. But my question was more pointing towards the fact how the Muslim "community" would have reacted towards him if he or anyone else for that matter did convert to another religion.

I can already predict the general sentiment: "Astagfirullah, sold his Deen for the Dunya and a women"
That's how predictable the Muslim "community" is.

I don't indulge in mind reading or like gossiping so I am not interested in second guessing her reasons for converting. I am not presenting a narrative. From my own personal experience and observations I am pointing out the fact that the social pressure Muslims exert at each other can be unbearable at times and difficult to deal with. Now I can only imagine how bigger the pressure must be for a public figure and the emergence of social media.

Khawaja himself said in the OP that he was victim of bullying for being in a relationship with a non-Muslim. It does validates the presence of some kind of social pressure which is what I pointed out.

 

[Sirris]

Jay-Z is Zay-Jee in The Humsaaya Mulk.

You are a genuinely funny guy. Congrats!

 

[Nostalgic]

You are a genuinely funny guy. Congrats!

Thanks, its the first time someone has actually congratulated me for it.

 

[Mamoon]

That sounds absurd. Usman being honest with her about his preferences means he is pressuring her? Perhaps he should have lied to her then?

Secondly the FACT is these two people came together, fell in love and wanted to marry. The woman was most probably indifferent towards her own religion so she accepted her husband's religion just to make things smoother between them. Her Choice. An understanding was reached. Case closed.

Why a muslim man doesnt convert? Again His choice. A muslim man and non muslim woman come together. Both of them are NOT indifferent towards their respective religions. They talk about it and they feel they cant continue to be together while practicing different religions. They separate. Case closed. Their choice. If the muslim man is indifferent towards his religion, he might convert to make things smoother between him and his wife. Again, his choice.

See the problem is that even if I accept the way you are looking at it, I have my reservations because the opposite simply does not happen, i.e. a Muslim man converting to his wife's faith because of "love" and "compromise".

It is not just about the choice of the man. When a Muslim man and a non-Muslim women come together and if a conversion needs to happen, it is always the women who converts.

This tells me that there is no choice to begin with here, and it is quite understandable when you consider the self-righteous nature of Islam.

You are either a Muslim or you are going to get barbecued with seasoning after death. As a result, a Muslim man is extremely averse to conversion even if he does not care about the religion much, so the onus almost always falls on the women to make the sacrifice.

As a result, it is one way traffic only. Usman telling his wife that he prefers her to be a Muslim and this is what he wants etc. certainly sounds persuasive to me.

Ultimately, in interfaith marriages, 99% of the time the non-Muslim is the one who has to change his faith, while the Muslim partner has the luxury of not leaving his religion.

 

[Mamoon]

Well Mamoon, I am going to take issue with your first comment that Muslims all over the world are obsessed with converting non-Muslims, because frankly, that is not even close to the truth. Perhaps you are talking about Islamic countries, but that means all Muslims would be running about doing dawah, but is that what you do?

Secondly, we are talking about a player who lives in Australia, do you really think he got married in order to convert a non-Muslim?

Finally, I am concerned that your post ranks of sexism and possibly racism. You seem to be implying that this Aussie girl has no mind of her own, and has somehow been coerced into taking on the religion against her will. Poor her! How feeble she must be, she's only a poor woman with a delicate mentality and being a woman she couldn't resist Usman's fiendish foreign charms!

I am not talking about the general people here. Normal people, who are not religious nutters and haven't married women from other faiths usually do not care about converting non-Muslims to Islam.

However, if a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim women, he will be prone to convincing and persuading her to convert to Islam. It does not matter if it is in Asia or Europe or North America, this trend can be seen everywhere.

In interfaith marriages, 60% of the times the woman becomes a Muslim, while both of them continue practicing their faith around 40% of the time. The reverse of the former scenario, i.e. a Muslim man converting to his wife's faith is almost 0%.

I do not see the sexism and racism in my take on this matter. It has little do with the fact that she is Australian, since this trend is there in all countries. Clearly, and I am going by her own words, Usman has tried to influence her decision.

'I told her I would prefer her to convert but she has to do it on her own. Unless it comes from you, comes from the heart, then there is no point doing it.'

Walking away from her Catholic roots, Rachel made the controversial decision on her own to convert to Islam last year.

'[I felt] no pressure from him, not any pressure from his family. I just knew it was so important to him,' she said.

I do not see how this can be interpreted in a different way. He has not directly pressurized or forced her, but he has clearly made attempts to influence and persuade her.

 

[Mamoon]

My question was on the specific point you raised about Non-Muslim girlfriends/women who are aware of the belief (incorrect) that Non-Muslims will go to hell. Did you mean THEY convert out of fear of this belief or convert because their significant others will not leave Islam because of it?

I personally do not think that they do it out of fear. I believe that they do it for the second reason that you mentioned. Since Islam is so self-righteous, they are aware that their partner will not leave Islam. In an ideal scenario, you will have both partners practicing their own faith.

However, if a conversion becomes important for the prosperity of the relationship, the burden of conversion always falls on the non-Muslim woman's head.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

He could if he wanted to, yes. But my question was more pointing towards the fact how the Muslim "community" would have reacted towards him if he or anyone else for that matter did convert to another religion.

I can already predict the general sentiment: "Astagfirullah, sold his Deen for the Dunya and a women"
That's how predictable the Muslim "community" is.

I don't indulge in mind reading or like gossiping so I am not interested in second guessing her reasons for converting. I am not presenting a narrative. From my own personal experience and observations I am pointing out the fact that the social pressure Muslims exert at each other can be unbearable at times and difficult to deal with. Now I can only imagine how bigger the pressure must be for a public figure and the emergence of social media.

Khawaja himself said in the OP that he was victim of bullying for being in a relationship with a non-Muslim. It does validates the presence of some kind of social pressure which is what I pointed out.

He's living in Australia, he's not bound to any "predictable Muslim community", by which of course you mean Pakistani/family community. If he feels obligated to bend his own desires to his 'community' then it's by his own choice, no one living in a non-Muslim country is forced to bend to family. Same goes for his girlfriend.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am not talking about the general people here. Normal people, who are not religious nutters and haven't married women from other faiths usually do not care about converting non-Muslims to Islam.

However, if a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim women, he will be prone to convincing and persuading her to convert to Islam. It does not matter if it is in Asia or Europe or North America, this trend can be seen everywhere.

In interfaith marriages, 60% of the times the woman becomes a Muslim, while both of them continue practicing their faith around 40% of the time. The reverse of the former scenario, i.e. a Muslim man converting to his wife's faith is almost 0%.

I do not see the sexism and racism in my take on this matter. It has little do with the fact that she is Australian, since this trend is there in all countries. Clearly, and I am going by her own words, Usman has tried to influence her decision.



I do not see how this can be interpreted in a different way. He has not directly pressurized or forced her, but he has clearly made attempts to influence and persuade her.

The sexism is in assuming she is feeble and has no mind of her own. He's made clear attempts to influence and persuade her you say...you seem to think because she's a woman, she's suddenly thrown her own reasoning capability out of the window because she's willing to bend to this influence. You yourself say this doesn't happen the other way around with the man converting, so the sexism is implied. Women always acquiesce easier because they are weaker minded.

 

[James]

112 replies is ridiculous for a thread like this.

It’s their personal business, just leave them to it.

The digital age has truly destroyed the idea of a separate private sphere.

 

[CricketCartoons]

112 replies is ridiculous for a thread like this.

It’s their personal business, just leave them to it.

The digital age has truly destroyed the idea of a separate private sphere.

You should also tell that to the couple to keep their concerns private then.

If they go public, then others have every right to offer their opinion.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

It seems to me that Muslims are expected by their religion to encourage, if not pursue conversion, and when it happens it seems to be an 'accomplishment', Of course such people exists in all religions, but this sentiment seems to be very pervasive in Muslims.

Also, they want to convert women to Islam, but what puts me off, is that let a Muslim women try and convert, well that's a dead no no.

This last is what makes me feel that this aspect of Islam is hypocritical and demeaning to other people.

 

[www787]

I live in a country where i have seen and have friends from both sexes converting to Islam because they met a significant other.

Anyone here trying to put down Muslim either by a Pakistani origin and those with inherited bias toward Islam is just trying to seiz an opportunity.

At Mamoon. Again, she is a capable woman in a free country with a choice, she made her choice. Most of us understand your desire to come off of as different than your fellow countrymen and culture, but this is just getting pathetic.

 

[dhonixi]

All those above supporting her now will change their mind instantly if she changed from Muslim to some other religion to marry Christian guy. All secular/ own mind/own choice is only when non Muslim changed into Muslims. Hypocrisy has no limits.

 

[www787]

All those above supporting her now will change their mind instantly if she changed from Muslim to some other religion to marry Christian guy. All secular/ own mind/own choice is only when non Muslim changed into Muslims. Hypocrisy has no limits.

All?

You do not know any of us here.

Lets not be ignorant and lump everyone in one group.

 

[troodon]

We have an obsession with converting non-Muslims and take great pride in the fact that every year XYZ number of people embrace Islam. Yes Islam encourages daawah, but at the same time, it also says that there is no compulsion in religion. Unfortunately, majority of Muslims (who marry non-Muslims) end up blurring the lines between the two.

If you tell your wife/girlfriend that it is your choice and I am not putting you under pressure, but I would prefer if you become a Muslim and it is something important to me, you are already contradicting yourself - you are clearly being persuasive.

We do not know Usman or his family, so we really do not know the conversations that took place between him and his fiancee, so we can only go by her statements. Based on her statements, it is pretty clear that Usman put indirect pressure on her.

Telling her that it (her conversion) matters to him and is important cannot be interpreted in a different way, so I do not see the purpose of sugarcoating it and making it look like she converted purely out of love without any influence.

Obviously, he did not force her to convert. Forced conversion would be you do what I say or it is over. That clearly did not happen.

Now my problem with the narrative that it was done purely out of love is because it is usually one-way traffic only. If a Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman, nine out of ten times the woman ends up embracing Islam. Maybe one in a hundred Muslim man would end up converting to his wife's religion, but it rarely, rarely happens.

So if it is out of love only, why doesn't the man convert? Is it a co-incidence? Clearly not. This train of thought would have had legs if a good percentage of Muslim men would end up converting "out of love".

Furthermore, my personal opinion on all this daawah and conversion business is that we have to move on with times. I believe that advertising Islam and encouraging others to embrace the faith was a necessity at that time.

However, with over 1.8 billion Muslims in the world today with a lot of them breeding like rabbits, I really do think people need to mind their own business and try to make themselves better Muslims, rather than obsessing with that non-Muslims do.

This is exactly what I have been saying.

Why does a woman has to convert to Islam and not the other way around?

 

[www787]

This is exactly what I have been saying.

Why does a woman has to convert to Islam and not the other way around?

How do you know it is true? How do you know that men haven't converted? Just because a Pakistani who is trying to portray himself as different then his fellow countrymen says it, it doesn't make it true.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It seems to me that Muslims are expected by their religion to encourage, if not pursue conversion, and when it happens it seems to be an 'accomplishment', Of course such people exists in all religions, but this sentiment seems to be very pervasive in Muslims.

Also, they want to convert women to Islam, but what puts me off, is that let a Muslim women try and convert, well that's a dead no no.

This last is what makes me feel that this aspect of Islam is hypocritical and demeaning to other people.

You are making a lot of assumptions, then basing your opinion on those. Did you ever consider you might be basing assumptions according to what you want to believe? I believe this is referred to as confirmation bias.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Why does a woman has to convert to Islam and not the other way around?

Why does the woman move into the man's house after marriage, and not the other way round?

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

You are making a lot of assumptions, then basing your opinion on those. Did you ever consider you might be basing assumptions according to what you want to believe? I believe this is referred to as confirmation bias.

I accept that that may indeed be the case. I would be happy to listen to an alternate point of view.

My opinion is however based on what i read and watch and observe

 

[troodon]

Why does the woman move into the man's house after marriage, and not the other way round?

Moving to man's house is same as converting to a different religion?

By the way, a woman moving to a man's house is slowly going away. Both woman and man will take a new place and live separately from in-laws these days.

If you do not see the hypocrisy of spouse always converting to Islam, then I don't know what to say.

As a Non-Muslim, I do not care what Islam says about conversion and marriage. If the man is sincere enough, the woman should not have to convert. If she is asked to convert, then the man always had ulterior motives.

I want inter-religious marriages to happen more and more. Provided nobody has to convert.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Moving to man's house is same as converting to a different religion?

.

You missed the point, why does the woman have to make the sacrifice?

Let me know when you have a credible answer.

 

[CricketCartoons]

You missed the point, why does the woman have to make the sacrifice?

Let me know when you have a credible answer.

Patriarchy. But this isn't a case of patriarchy. It is a person of weaker faith moving to a stronger faith.

 

[ManFan]

Moving to man's house is same as converting to a different religion?

By the way, a woman moving to a man's house is slowly going away. Both woman and man will take a new place and live separately from in-laws these days.

If you do not see the hypocrisy of spouse always converting to Islam, then I don't know what to say.

As a Non-Muslim, I do not care what Islam says about conversion and marriage. If the man is sincere enough, the woman should not have to convert. If she is asked to convert, then the man always had ulterior motives.

I want inter-religious marriages to happen more and more. Provided nobody has to convert.

It’s so their children grow up to be Muslims. Despite all the glory, it is the women who are the most powerful in the house once children are born.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I accept that that may indeed be the case. I would be happy to listen to an alternate point of view.

My opinion is however based on what i read and watch and observe

Alternative point of view to what? There were a lot of general assumptions in your post regarding what you think about Islam but they would probably need a separate thread for different aspects. If you are talking about Khawaja and his wife/gf, then most of those have probably already been answered in this thread. Is there anything specific you want addressed?

 

[Mamoon]

The sexism is in assuming she is feeble and has no mind of her own. He's made clear attempts to influence and persuade her you say...you seem to think because she's a woman, she's suddenly thrown her own reasoning capability out of the window because she's willing to bend to this influence. You yourself say this doesn't happen the other way around with the man converting, so the sexism is implied. Women always acquiesce easier because they are weaker minded.

It has nothing to do with sexism because the percentage of Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men is very negligible compared to the percentage of Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women.

Regardless of what the gender of the Muslim spouse is, he/she is rarely - if ever - the one to make the sacrifice for "love" and "compromise".

[MENTION=137870]www787[/MENTION]

There is no point in sugarcoating the issue. Yes she has made a choice, but like many others in her position, she has been influenced to make that choice. I do not understand why is it so hard to for us to admit.

I think there was a thread on PP few months back where Hindus in India were objecting the idea of marrying their daughters to Muslims since in Muslim-Hindu interfaith marriage, it is always the Hindu girl who has to embrace her husband's faith. The opposite never happens at all.

I empathize with their concerns and support their objection. If Muslims cannot overcome their tendency to influence their partners, they would be better off marrying their own kind.

I am skeptical as far as this freedom of choice narrative is concerned because we rarely see this freedom of choice working the other way around. I would not have any issues with interfaith marriages if a good percentage of Muslim men would also convert out of love and compromise.

However, what actually happens when not-so religious Muslim man marries a not-so religious non-Muslim women is that the women continues practicing her faith or she ends up converting to Islam. If they feel like they both need to be on the same page for a fruitful relationship, it is almost always the women who converts because the husband will not budge due to the self-righteous nature of Islam.

This does not sound fair to me.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It has nothing to do with sexism because the percentage of Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men is very negligible compared to the percentage of Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women.

I was talking about this Australian girl, and so were you initially when you contended that she had been put under pressure and influenced to change religion. I found it sexist that you considered her so feeble minded and weak willed that she acquiesced to give up her own relgion despite living in Australia. You must have felt the truth of my observation, that is why you then diverted to a general observation about why women convert to Islam, but men don't convert out.

If you want to discuss love jihad (as described by Islamophobes) then there is definitely a discussion to be had there, but this thread is about Khawaja and his wife, so please leave your love jihad nonsense out of it, unless you feel he is a staunch fundo and she is indeed a feeble minded simpleton.

 

[R3verse Swing]

You got to hand it to the bright sparks.

From saying she was forced, to she was influenced.

Given every decision in our lives is influenced one way or another, the intelligence on display is remarkable.

It's like predicting water will be wet.

 

[Poutine]

Moving to man's house is same as converting to a different religion?

By the way, a woman moving to a man's house is slowly going away. Both woman and man will take a new place and live separately from in-laws these days.

If you do not see the hypocrisy of spouse always converting to Islam, then I don't know what to say.

As a Non-Muslim, I do not care what Islam says about conversion and marriage. If the man is sincere enough, the woman should not have to convert. If she is asked to convert, then the man always had ulterior motives.

I want inter-religious marriages to happen more and more. Provided nobody has to convert.

By the same token, I am sure most Muslims and people converting to Islam dont care what you have to say nor do they need your approval for their marriage.

You may think that Khawaja has ulterior motive but the only person that matters in this scenario is Rachel McLellan and she clearly doesn't think so. That should be the end of it.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Lol be honest and say that you converted for him...

Anyways best of luck to both

Usman himself seems secular type so don't think huge change in lifestyle will be required

He is like a lot of second Pakistanis' here

not secular enough to be secular and not religious enough to be religious, ie confused

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

[MENTION=2071]saadibaba[/MENTION] hit the nail on its head.

Let's not kid ourselves with the "it is out of love and she did without any pressure" nonsense.

I dont want to speak to her because I dont know her enough, but in general most australian women/men who marry Australia Pakistani's dont care about religion and so its not much of an issue for them to "revert/convert".

Generally in such cases the Pakistani spouse doesnt care either, its like a rubber stamp. It's done just so parents can 'save face' in front of the community.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

Oh men this thread is getting longer and longer

 

[90MPH]

She looks pretty. Wish them both well.

As for the religious conversion point no problem as long as she wanted it. Usman doesn’t seem the hard religious type who would impose his will like some are alluding for obvious reasons.

 

[Pakistanian]

It's funny how Indians have a bigger problem with this than white people do

 

[Mamoon]

You got to hand it to the bright sparks.

From saying she was forced, to she was influenced.

Given every decision in our lives is influenced one way or another, the intelligence on display is remarkable.

It's like predicting water will be wet.

And your ability to comprehend English in its basic form remains exceptionally weak. Please show me a post where I have said that she was "forced" to convert.

 

[Mamoon]

I dont want to speak to her because I dont know her enough, but in general most australian women/men who marry Australia Pakistani's dont care about religion and so its not much of an issue for them to "revert/convert".

Generally in such cases the Pakistani spouse doesnt care either, its like a rubber stamp. It's done just so parents can 'save face' in front of the community.

Yes, it is obvious that people who end up in interfaith marriages are usually not religious. However, the luxury of saving face is almost always reserved for the Muslim family.

 

[Mamoon]

I was talking about this Australian girl, and so were you initially when you contended that she had been put under pressure and influenced to change religion. I found it sexist that you considered her so feeble minded and weak willed that she acquiesced to give up her own relgion despite living in Australia. You must have felt the truth of my observation, that is why you then diverted to a general observation about why women convert to Islam, but men don't convert out.

If you want to discuss love jihad (as described by Islamophobes) then there is definitely a discussion to be had there, but this thread is about Khawaja and his wife, so please leave your love jihad nonsense out of it, unless you feel he is a staunch fundo and she is indeed a feeble minded simpleton.

The conversation was generalized long before you decided to play the discrimination card. There is absolutely nothing racist or sexist in the assessment that she was influenced.

 

[Poutine]

The conversation was generalized long before you decided to play the discrimination card. There is absolutely nothing racist or sexist in the assessment that she was influenced.

She said she wasn't influenced. By saying that she has been influenced , you doubt her word and claim to know more about her decision than she does. How is that not sexist? Isn't this the textbook definition of mansplaining and patronization?

 

[www787]

It has nothing to do with sexism because the percentage of Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men is very negligible compared to the percentage of Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women.

Regardless of what the gender of the Muslim spouse is, he/she is rarely - if ever - the one to make the sacrifice for "love" and "compromise".

[MENTION=137870]www787[/MENTION]

There is no point in sugarcoating the issue. Yes she has made a choice, but like many others in her position, she has been influenced to make that choice. I do not understand why is it so hard to for us to admit.

I think there was a thread on PP few months back where Hindus in India were objecting the idea of marrying their daughters to Muslims since in Muslim-Hindu interfaith marriage, it is always the Hindu girl who has to embrace her husband's faith. The opposite never happens at all.

I empathize with their concerns and support their objection. If Muslims cannot overcome their tendency to influence their partners, they would be better off marrying their own kind.

I am skeptical as far as this freedom of choice narrative is concerned because we rarely see this freedom of choice working the other way around. I would not have any issues with interfaith marriages if a good percentage of Muslim men would also convert out of love and compromise.

However, what actually happens when not-so religious Muslim man marries a not-so religious non-Muslim women is that the women continues practicing her faith or she ends up converting to Islam. If they feel like they both need to be on the same page for a fruitful relationship, it is almost always the women who converts because the husband will not budge due to the self-righteous nature of Islam.

This does not sound fair to me.

Again, I live in a country where I have friends of both gender who are Muslims and married to someone who were not Muslim prior to their wedding. What am I sugar coating? And how hard is that to understand.
Since you are in US, I suggest you to go out and do little research on your own.
You are generalizing and you’ll find that quite common occurrence.
It may be quite common in sub-continent and I have never witness it when I was living there but it isn’t in the West.

 

[Mamoon]

Again, I live in a country where I have friends of both gender who are Muslims and married to someone who were not Muslim prior to their wedding. What am I sugar coating? And how hard is that to understand.
Since you are in US, I suggest you to go out and do little research on your own.
You are generalizing and you’ll find that quite common occurrence.
It may be quite common in sub-continent and I have never witness it when I was living there but it isn’t in the West.

So they are married to someone who were not Muslims prior to their wedding. In other words, you are stating that the non-Muslim partners converted to Islam after marriage. Yes that is my point too.

The proportion of Muslims converting to his/her partner's faith is very small compared to the proportion of non-Muslims converting to the faith of his/her Muslim partner.

The monopoly of Muslims when it comes to who converts in the relationship and who does not is unfair in my opinion, and for the sake of social justice, I support the stand of the Indian Hindus who do not want their daughters to marry Muslim men.

 

[Mamoon]

She said she wasn't influenced. By saying that she has been influenced , you doubt her word and claim to know more about her decision than she does. How is that not sexist? Isn't this the textbook definition of mansplaining and patronization?

Her quotes clearly suggest that Usman did try to influence and persuade her.

"It is obviously your choice, but I would be happy if you convert to Islam"

"It means a lot to me"

etc. etc.

These are not my quotes. This is what Usman told her as per his wife. I am obviously rephrasing, but the original quotes can be found in the OP.

This is clearly persuasive. I do not see how it can be interpreted in a different way. Now as far as the sexism is concerned, as I stated earlier, this rule of the Muslim partner not converting holds true regardless of whether the Muslim partner is a female or a male. Hence, it is not a racist assessment to begin with.

The fact is that in interfaith marriages, either no one converts or the burden of conversion falls on the head of the non-Muslim partner. If it is not due to influence, I wonder what the reason is. It is quite odd that only the non-Muslim partners end up being influenced.

 

[Mamoon]

Her quotes clearly suggest that Usman did try to influence and persuade her.

"It is obviously your choice, but I would be happy if you convert to Islam"

"It means a lot to me"

etc. etc.

These are not my quotes. This is what Usman told her as per his wife. I am obviously rephrasing, but the original quotes can be found in the OP.

This is clearly persuasive. I do not see how it can be interpreted in a different way. Now as far as the sexism is concerned, as I stated earlier, this rule of the Muslim partner not converting holds true regardless of whether the Muslim partner is a female or a male. Hence, it is not a racist assessment to begin with.

The fact is that in interfaith marriages, either no one converts or the burden of conversion falls on the head of the non-Muslim partner. If it is not due to influence, I wonder what the reason is. It is quite odd that only the non-Muslim partners end up being influenced.

ends up being inspired or attracted to the religion of their partner*

 

[www787]

So they are married to someone who were not Muslims prior to their wedding. In other words, you are stating that the non-Muslim partners converted to Islam after marriage. Yes that is my point too.

The proportion of Muslims converting to his/her partner's faith is very small compared to the proportion of non-Muslims converting to the faith of his/her Muslim partner.

The monopoly of Muslims when it comes to who converts in the relationship and who does not is unfair in my opinion, and for the sake of social justice, I support the stand of the Indian Hindus who do not want their daughters to marry Muslim men.

So from female converting to now it’s not proportional?

And why are you even trying to turn this into a discussion when this isn’t even a discussion?

But for the sake of discussion. Monopoly? Aren’t you trying hard now ? That is a personal preference. Just like some in US prefers dark skinned partner, some prefers Latino, some prefers same race, some care about religion and some don’t, some Jews marry only Jews and some don’t. How is this even relevant ? And guess what, you sing the tune of western world whenever you are trying desperately to put down your fellow countrymen, the sane western world openly accept that preference as a personal choice. I suggest less time on PP and more time mingling with locals so you can comprehend this social concept.

 

[Pakistanian]

Her quotes clearly suggest that Usman did try to influence and persuade her.

"It is obviously your choice, but I would be happy if you convert to Islam"

"It means a lot to me"

etc. etc.

These are not my quotes. This is what Usman told her as per his wife. I am obviously rephrasing, but the original quotes can be found in the OP.

This is clearly persuasive. I do not see how it can be interpreted in a different way. Now as far as the sexism is concerned, as I stated earlier, this rule of the Muslim partner not converting holds true regardless of whether the Muslim partner is a female or a male. Hence, it is not a racist assessment to begin with.

The fact is that in interfaith marriages, either no one converts or the burden of conversion falls on the head of the non-Muslim partner. If it is not due to influence, I wonder what the reason is. It is quite odd that only the non-Muslim partners end up being influenced.

Duuude watch this and stop writing your essays lol. She clearly says that she's doing this to please God and for the hereafter.

She says it's between her and God nor Uzzy or anybody.

 

[captain.hansolo]

https://honey.nine.com.au/2018/03/18/08/51/60-minutes-usman-khawaja-rachel-mclellan

it is a bit pathetic that you could be living in a bastion of democracy, be exposed to new ideas, get a top notch education, and yet, you cannot get over that your beloved speaks to a different fictitious person in the sky than you do.

so you make them pretend that their fictitious person is not the real deal, but your fictitious person is...

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Yes, it is obvious that people who end up in interfaith marriages are usually not religious. However, the luxury of saving face is almost always reserved for the Muslim family.

Haha

You haven’t heard of west coast Jewish Marriages then, to name but one

 

[captain.hansolo]

ends up being inspired or attracted to the religion of their partner*

or that their partner is the more inflexible of the two...

 

[CricketCartoons]

it is a bit pathetic that you could be living in a bastion of democracy, be exposed to new ideas, get a top notch education, and yet, you cannot get over that your beloved speaks to a different fictitious person in the sky than you do.

so you make them pretend that their fictitious person is not the real deal, but your fictitious person is...

probably they made the decision because they live in a democracy and are under no threat from the society.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The conversation was generalized long before you decided to play the discrimination card. There is absolutely nothing racist or sexist in the assessment that she was influenced.

So your defence of your diversion was that it was already happening? Understood, which is why I asked you to stick to the topic. You were claiming that this Aussie girl living in the free world was pressured and influenced by Khawaja, and that is the only reason she converted. You also made a big deal about why is it women who convert to Islam and not men in interfaith marriages ( not true by the way), and it is quite clear from this that you think women are somehow incapable of knowing their own minds. Classic definition of sexism. Your racism has already been exposed in another thread where you made an offensive generalisation about Pakistanis which was removed by the mods.

To be fair, I don't think you mean to be purposefully racist or sexist, you are just easily influenced by current Islamophobic trends and feel the need to fit in which is perfectly understandable.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's funny how Indians have a bigger problem with this than white people do

That's because white people are quite used to inter-faith marriages, and they would just see this as another one. Indians and their Pakistani cheerleader have built up the love jihad narrative and they probably see every such relationship through this lens.

 

[James]

That's because white people are quite used to inter-faith marriages, and they would just see this as another one. Indians and their Pakistani cheerleader have built up the love jihad narrative and they probably see every such relationship through this lens.

Spot on. This is a non-story.

 

[Rinnegan Sasuke]

People care too much about the lives of others. Just congratulate the couple and move on.

 

[CricketCartoons]

People care too much about the lives of others. Just congratulate the couple and move on.

When the couple are advertising their life decisions and a private matter through an interview, can't blame others for commenting on them.

 

[R3verse Swing]

And your ability to comprehend English in its basic form remains exceptionally weak. Please show me a post where I have said that she was "forced" to convert.

Simmer down. Who said I was referring to you?

 

[Romali_rotti]

This thread:

Pakistanis: Oh Oh Look a White girl converted to Islam, Ohhhh this is amazing, this is the greatest thing since slice bread, (Major inferiority complex)

Indians: Oh Oh but but she was forced to convert, thinking in their hearts deep down Islam is all about forceful conversion and she is being forced into it..



lol )

 

[Mamoon]

So your defence of your diversion was that it was already happening? Understood, which is why I asked you to stick to the topic. You were claiming that this Aussie girl living in the free world was pressured and influenced by Khawaja, and that is the only reason she converted. Your racism has already been exposed in another thread where you made an offensive generalisation about Pakistanis which was removed by the mods.

To be fair, I don't think you mean to be purposefully racist or sexist, you are just easily influenced by current Islamophobic trends and feel the need to fit in which is perfectly understandable.

It appears that your fixation with my "racist" undertone is because you along with others in this thread are simply not willing to answer some straightforward questions that I have been put forward since my first post in this thread, and I find it comically ironic to see the accusations of "diversion" coming my way, when it has been the other way round since the beginning of this thread.

The thread moved on from Usman's wife and became a general discussion of interfaith marriages long before you started engaging with me.

Let me rephrase my questions one last time:

In interfaith marriages, if a conversion does happen, why is it almost always the non-Muslim partner that converts to Islam? If it is about compromise, love etc. etc., why is it one-way traffic only?

Why don't we see the Muslim partners converting out of love and compromise? Why does the burden of conversion pretty much always falls on the non-Muslim?

Notice that I used the word non-Muslim partner for your pleasure and not non-Muslim women, so that you cannot conveniently evade answering my questions by playing the racism card.

Consider the fact that the Muslim partner converts very, very rarely, it is pretty clear to me that influence and persuasion plays a big role, and it is not surprising either, consider how obsessed Muslims are when it converting people to Islam.

You also made a big deal about why is it women who convert to Islam and not men in interfaith marriages ( not true by the way), and it is quite clear from this that you think women are somehow incapable of knowing their own minds. Classic definition of sexism.

Except that it was not my point at all. The proportion of Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men is much, much lower compared to the proportion of Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women. The former is very negligible.

I thought it fairly obvious and does not need any explanation, but it did present you with an opportunity to avoid the topic at hand and play the racist card.

It has nothing to do with gender. It has everything to do with the fact that the Muslim partner is usually persuasive and influences his/her partner to convert, which they often do for a smoother relationship. Her quotes in the OP clearly imply that.

Your racism has already been exposed in another thread where you made an offensive generalisation about Pakistanis which was removed by the mods.

Can you be racist to your own kind? I do not know, but what I do know is that there is no doubt that we are champions of playing the victim card and exploiting our image and reputation to have our way. It is clear that Usman is playing the "I am brown thats why" card to blame his problems and shortcomings on others.

He cannot buy a run in Asia and gets dropped, he accuses the selectors for scapegoating him.

He is a slouch in the field and does not seem to work hard on his fitness, gets called for it and what does he do? blames the detractors for stereotyping Pakistani origin players. He is very clearly using racism and discrimination as a shield.

 

[Mamoon]

So from female converting to now it’s not proportional?

And why are you even trying to turn this into a discussion when this isn’t even a discussion?

But for the sake of discussion. Monopoly? Aren’t you trying hard now ? That is a personal preference. Just like some in US prefers dark skinned partner, some prefers Latino, some prefers same race, some care about religion and some don’t, some Jews marry only Jews and some don’t. How is this even relevant ? And guess what, you sing the tune of western world whenever you are trying desperately to put down your fellow countrymen, the sane western world openly accept that preference as a personal choice. I suggest less time on PP and more time mingling with locals so you can comprehend this social concept.

Firstly, you can look at my previous in this thread and you will see the word "mostly" in almost every post of mine. Of course, there are exceptions, but this is how it usually goes in interfaith marriages:

Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men is quite rare, but Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women happens frequently.

The non-Muslim women either converts or does not. However, the opposite (the Muslim man converting) happens very rarely.

Considering the disproportionality, it is clear that it is not just a matter of personal preference or freedom of choice. Considering the self-righteousness of Islam and how averse Muslims generally are to embracing another faith, it is obvious that the burden of conversion mostly falls on the non-Muslim partner, who is usually a female, since it is rare for a Muslim women to marry a non-Muslim man.

It is quite disingenuous to deny the persuasion and the influence that takes place, which again, is not the same as being coerced into it. No one is accusing Usman or other Muslim wen for forcing their wife into conversion.

 

[Mamoon]

Duuude watch this and stop writing your essays lol. She clearly says that she's doing this to please God and for the hereafter.

She says it's between her and God nor Uzzy or anybody.

So in interfaith marriages, why is it almost always the non-Muslim partner who decides to please God and converts to Islam? Why doesn't the Muslim partner convert in order to please God?

There are two possibilities: either Islam has amazing powers of attraction and if you live with a Muslim person on a daily basis, you are likely to be attracted to Islam.

Or, the Muslim partner is usually more persuasive and attempts to talk you into conversion. Her quotes clearly suggests that Usman was successful in persuading her to embrace Islam. No one is accusing him for forcing or pressurizing her.

For this reason, I empathize with the sentiment of Hindus in India who have a problem with interfaith marriages because the burden of conversion almost always falls on them.

 

[Mamoon]

Haha

You haven’t heard of west coast Jewish Marriages then, to name but one

I assume you are referring to the fact that in interfaith marriages involving Jews, the non-Jewish partner usually converts to Judaism. It is not surprising to hear, considering Judaism is even more self-righteous than Islam, since you have to be among the chosen ones to be a Jew, and the process of conversion is complicated.

On the other hand, Islam is less discriminatory and is open to everyone.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It appears that your fixation with my "racist" undertone is because you along with others in this thread are simply not willing to answer some straightforward questions that I have been put forward since my first post in this thread, and I find it comically ironic to see the accusations of "diversion" coming my way, when it has been the other way round since the beginning of this thread.

The thread moved on from Usman's wife and became a general discussion of interfaith marriages long before you started engaging with me.

Let me rephrase my questions one last time:

In interfaith marriages, if a conversion does happen, why is it almost always the non-Muslim partner that converts to Islam? If it is about compromise, love etc. etc., why is it one-way traffic only?

Why don't we see the Muslim partners converting out of love and compromise? Why does the burden of conversion pretty much always falls on the non-Muslim?

Notice that I used the word non-Muslim partner for your pleasure and not non-Muslim women, so that you cannot conveniently evade answering my questions by playing the racism card.

Consider the fact that the Muslim partner converts very, very rarely, it is pretty clear to me that influence and persuasion plays a big role, and it is not surprising either, consider how obsessed Muslims are when it converting people to Islam.



Except that it was not my point at all. The proportion of Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men is much, much lower compared to the proportion of Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women. The former is very negligible.

I thought it fairly obvious and does not need any explanation, but it did present you with an opportunity to avoid the topic at hand and play the racist card.

It has nothing to do with gender. It has everything to do with the fact that the Muslim partner is usually persuasive and influences his/her partner to convert, which they often do for a smoother relationship. Her quotes in the OP clearly imply that.



Can you be racist to your own kind? I do not know, but what I do know is that there is no doubt that we are champions of playing the victim card and exploiting our image and reputation to have our way. It is clear that Usman is playing the "I am brown thats why" card to blame his problems and shortcomings on others.

He cannot buy a run in Asia and gets dropped, he accuses the selectors for scapegoating him.

He is a slouch in the field and does not seem to work hard on his fitness, gets called for it and what does he do? blames the detractors for stereotyping Pakistani origin players. He is very clearly using racism and discrimination as a shield.

Let me answer your questions directly, even though you never addressed them to me personally:

In interfaith marriages, if a conversion does happen, why is it almost always the non-Muslim partner that converts to Islam? If it is about compromise, love etc. etc., why is it one-way traffic only?

Clearly Islam is seen as an attractive faith for the non-Muslim partner more often than the other way round. I don't know why this is, but in tv interviews with converts, it has often been the family values which are seen as important which Muslims tend to value highly, even yourself and the most vocal atheist on the forum has respected this in his own life.

Why don't we see the Muslim partners converting out of love and compromise? Why does the burden of conversion pretty much always falls on the non-Muslim?

See above. If a Muslim wants an unconventional marriage, they would simply live as they are. Sajid Javed the Conservative MP is not a religious man, although his wife is a committed Christian so he follows her lead. Same would be the case for Lord Alli who is gay and has a gay partner.

Can you be racist to your own kind?

Yes you can when you present demeaning stereotypes as generalisations, and that is why your post was removed by the mods. It wasn't my decision, I would quite happily meet you on that ground, but then you probably run a mile from any thread where I did that to someone other than 'your own kind'.