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Muttiah Muralitharan vs Shane Warne, who was the better bowler?

Who was the better spinner?

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Saqs

Saqs

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Warne vs Murali

Not too sure if this has been done on PP before.

I've always wondered whether some sort of cultural bias makes Pakistani fans dismiss Warney as a genius of the art, or the 15-degree bias makes us fans dismiss Murali as someone who has the right to be crowned King of Spin.

Who do you think was the better spinner?

(I realise we are talking Leg Spin vs Off-Spin, but let's give it a shot anyway)

For me - I've always enjoyed watching Warney play over Murali - so I'd have to say Warney even though a lot of Pakistani fans I know used to hate his guts when he used to play (for his arrogance, constant appealing etc.)

But he was one of those bowlers that when he had the ball in his hand, a buzz went around the ground and you just knew something was going down (which was usually a wicket or two, if he was playing v Pakistan). He was a constant tormentor of our batting lineup, and for that, there is grudging admiration and respect.

Warne for me.
 
Warne..... Sri Lanka is a paradise for Spin Bowling but Australia a graveyard for Spinners, its easy to live in paradise then in a graveyard
 
I've never thought of Australia as a graveyard for spin bowling. Possibly Perth/Brisbane pitches, but the MCG, SCG and Adelaide pitches usually offer something for the spinners.
 
Warne by a country mile

Off spinners can never compare to leg spinners.
 
If someone says Murali has the help of spinning pitches in SL, then their are some advantages for Wanrny as well.

1. Throughout Wanrny's career he was supported buy a consistently good seam attack and they always get couple of early wickets which immensely helped Wanrny’s course.

Some people argue that SL didn't have too may wicket taking bowlers and that helped Murali to get lord of wickets. That is absolutely stupid idea. A good example is when Mendis gets 26 wickets against India Murali wasn’t far away.

2. Throughout Wanrny's career he was supported buy a consistently good batting line up and most of the time he had plenty of runs to play with.

3. Yes, Aus pitches not turning like in SL but Aus forth fifth day pitch offer lot more bounce and rip than the pitches in Sri Lanka. How many time we saw batsman survive in SL in their last innings because the lack of bounce and the slowness of the pitch.

When you talking about who you like to watch bowling is a personal taste and I have no argument with that.
 
Warne to me was the better bowler
I rated them equally until the 2005 ashes after that I felt Warne went up to a whole another level.
 
Warne and Wasim are the two magicians, oops bowlers i would pick over any bowler in the world.
 
Warne. Genuine superstar.

To all those suggesting an off-spinner cannot be compared with a leg-spinner, in this case, both bowlers are "wrist spinners" and so the comparison becomes valid.

Now, Saqlain (at his peak) vs. Warne? Thats a tough call.
 
Shane Warne for me:19:!
 
I think murali lost his ability at the end of the career where as warne left when he can play for couple of more years.
Murali is just playing for records now.
As a bowler warne was street smart and was great at mind games.
Even though murali was big turner of the ball but warne edged him in mind games.So for me warne.
 
Shane Warne for me. He was a better cricketer and a really intelligent bowler. He executed his art more intelligently as he grew older and his last couple of years were awesome.

Both murali and warne have taken wickets in all the different conditions at numerous occasions. SL is murali's home country, so you can not blame murali for playing a lot in SL. The same is true for warne, he has more wickets and experience out side sub-continent how often does Aus comes to sub-continent?
 
Murali. They are both pretty close, but the difference between them is how they fared against the best players of spin, India. Warne was pretty much slaughtered every time he faced, and never even came close to a match-winning performance. Murali not only won matches against them but gained far more respect.

For players not really adept at spin, like those from SA and England, Warne would seem a much more difficult bowler because he adds mind games to his cricket and leaves the batsmen even more clueless. But if you find a batsman who is a fine player of spin, he would find Murali a harder prospect. Warne's action, while beautiful to watch, doesn't conceal his wrist and he is consequently easier to pick as a result. For a batsman who can use his feet and plays from the wrist, playing Warne is actually very manageable.

With Murali, he is much harder to pick from the wrist, and has the added weapon of the doosra which goes the other way. Which is why the vast majority of great players of spin from this era, including Salim Malik, Sidhu, Pietersen, Mark Waugh, and Sehwag, rate Murali as more difficult to play.
 
Warne was a genius. The way he out thought the batsmen, and set them up was just magical to watch. There is no way murli comes even close to warne. the only spinner who could match shane warne was saqlain, at his peak
 
There is no competition here at all, it has to be shane warne by a huge country mile. Murali comes nowhere near at all.
 
Yup!! (783 and 511) and counting vs (703 and 293).
1294 > 996.

Murali is the best.
 
Murali for me, But I will say here that if Saqlain had not finished his career due to injury, He would have been far far better than both of them.
 
Legend vs Chucker/Cheat

Warne wins by an absolute mile. He did not get the type of pitches Murali enjoys at home which are ridiculously conducive to spin yet was largely more successful.

Also, if you take out Bangladesh and Zimbabwe Warne's tally only drops to 685 while Murali's drops to a shocking 607 from his original 783 with a bowling average rise of about 2 runs as well.

Final Verdict, Murali may be allowed to tie Shane Warne's laces on days the legend doesn't feel like doing it himself but that is about it :D
 
The_Cricket_Devil said:
Legend vs Chucker/Cheat

Warne wins by an absolute mile. He did not get the type of pitches Murali enjoys at home which are ridiculously conducive to spin yet was largely more successful.

Also, if you take out Bangladesh and Zimbabwe Warne's tally only drops to 685 while Murali's drops to a shocking 607 from his original 783 with a bowling average rise of about 2 runs as well.

Final Verdict, Murali may be allowed to tie Shane Warne's laces on days the legend doesn't feel like doing it himself but that is about it :D
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Chucker/cheat hmm!!!! Now who used masking agent? Oh!! Mommy gave me those pills.

Just because fat boy can't play against Bangladesh doesn't mean you can take out Bd stats.

Here is your legend:
SK Warne 20 overs 1 maiden 112 runs 0 wickets 5.60 Econ. What a beating by the minnows in a whole test innings. That even in a spinning wicket at Dhaka. He should dig a hole and go under and live there permanently. Wait actually that is what he did in that match. Left the field crying.
http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/238171.html
 
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Not that Murali isn't great but its just that Warnies just too bloody good.

Shane Warna knew exactly how much the ball would turn before he released it. The way he set up a batsmen is a gift that Murali hasn't had.
The big turning leg spinner followed by a ball that just goes straight on without any change at all in the action.
Shane Warne also had way more variety than Murali. Also much better at subtle changes. Using the angles, the crease, the flight etc.

Shane Warne accomplished so much, all without a very impressive googly.

If cricketer were artists, Shane Warne is the Leonardo De Vinci
 
Warne is

He didnt have a dodgy action, he bowled big leggies with big turn and got as many people out with his personality and presence

He was consistently great throughout his career and relied on subtelties rather than huge variety

Brilliant

He is the spin master
 
If 15-degree +/- 5 not an issue...then hands down murali...Warne's record against best players of spin is a huge chink in his armor...most of his victims have been from countries that are traditionally weak players of spin...benefitted from change in umpiring norms/practices as well sugar daddies like keortzen plus intimidation...

Also Murali's average is lower....
 
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I suggest we discuss ONLY the cricketing abilities of these two legends, and leave other matters to other threads. :imran
 
Well I'm surprised how many people on this forum have chosen Shane. How refreshing to see objectivity - I was a regular poster on SLcricket.com for years and unfortunately there were only blinkered oneyed boneheaded opinons whenever this question came up there. Being an Aussie it's hard not to be subjective but given the Bangla/Zimbabwe factor (puhleeeze don't try to make statements about Warne's 1 test figures), the fact that Murali has a poor record against what was the Nº 1 team during practicaly all his test career plus that Warne was a much more multi-dimentional cricketer than Murali then the choice is obvious.

Surprised there's been no claim for Abdul Qadir ;-)

cricinfo profile:
"It is impossible to believe that wrist-spin has ever been bowled better than Qadir did in his home city of Lahore in 1987-88, when he took 9 for 56 against England. Graham Gooch, who faced him that day, said Qadir was even finer than Shane Warne, to whom he passed on the candle."
 
I hate SL because of obvious reasons.:malik
Shane Warne is a legend and a good commentator!
 
Some of you guys seems to have better knowledge about Warny’s bowling than the Ausies.... the way he flights the ball… his variations and things like that… :)) so I just browsed some Wanrny’s performances and came up with an absolute beauty... a Wanry’s masterpiece... here we go,

Australia v Pakistan Test Series 2002/03

His overall average against Pak = 20.17, Zim = 22.83, Ban = 27.27, Ind = 47.18

Every time you called him the legend and the best bowler you are doing only goods for the Pakistani cricket team.

Any cricket fan most of the time watches their own team’s playing. So looking at Warny's performances against Pakistan I’m not surprise at all to see that most Pakistani fan’s are so thrilled about his bowling (most surprising is Indians reaction with huge 47.18 avg against them)… also everyone can have their own opinion about certain players, but what I can't accept is very unfair and one sided analysis of those player’s carriers. Here again I point out my last post (no one talked about these factors yet in this thread),
aravinda1234 said:
If someone says Murali has the help of spinning pitches in SL, then their are some advantages for Wanrny as well.

1. Throughout Warny's career he was supported buy a consistently good seam attack and they always get couple of early wickets which immensely helped Wanrny’s course.

Some people argue that SL didn't have too may wicket taking bowlers and that helped Murali to get lord of wickets. That is absolutely stupid idea. A good example is when Mendis gets 26 wickets against India Murali wasn’t far away.

2. Throughout Wanrny's career he was supported buy a consistently good batting line up and most of the time he had plenty of runs to play with.

3. Yes, Aus pitches not turning like in SL but Aus forth fifth day pitch offer lot more bounce and rip than the pitches in Sri Lanka. How many time we saw batsman survive in SL in their last innings because the lack of bounce and the slowness of the pitch.

When you talking about who you like to watch bowling is a personal taste and I have no argument with that.
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Look at their records against India and you will know who is better.
 
boycott_IPL said:
...(puhleeeze don't try to make statements about Warne's 1 test figures), ...
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(I think this is directed to me) He only played 138 tests before that all through out the world. Getting your rear whipped by a minnow team or (the way you guys say) not worthy of a test team since you want to exclude stats of those team ... what you make out of a legend?
 
aravinda1234 said:
...Here again I point out my last post (no one talked about these factors yet in this thread),
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Because there is no answer to those.

Test cricket is always been hunting with the pack. Be it WI quicks, Lillie-Thomo, or W's. However for Murali unfortunately he had no one tag team with.
 
You cannot, in one post, suggest that Murali is greater due to his greater number of wickets and then in another, say he is greater because he took wickets without support. That becomes circular.
 
Ghoshtbuster said:
You cannot, in one post, suggest that Murali is greater due to his greater number of wickets and then in another, say he is greater because he took wickets without support. That becomes circular.
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Having the highest number of wickets without help from the other end is even greater achievement.
 
Ok, just to make it clearer:

If you are the only bowler in a team, you will take all the wickets. Thus you end your career with a high number of wickets. If there are two bowlers in the team, the wickets will be shared, thus the number will be [relatively] lower.

With this [simplified] situation, you cannot say the following two points as individual attributes:

He took most wickets
He did it by himself

Since one follows the other.
 
Being the only good bowler in the team does not equate to having difficulty in taking wickets. A good bowler will take wickets regardless. Kapil did it, Hadlee did it, plus they too were the highest wicket takers during their respective times but that doesn't mean that they were the best fast bowlers of all times or even of their era.
 
Has to be Murali, although i would prefer to have Warne in my team. Murali will consintantly get you wickets while Warne can win you the match in a over. Not saying murali can just that warne could do it more often.
 
Ok then simple... you must consider his average... how many runs he has given to the opposition for those wickets.
 
at this level of extreme expertise , i always prefer not to rate the contenders . some might say warne some might say murali . its either same to me becuase both of these legends have proven themselves as best the game ever got .

however , warne , was more pleasureable to watch , may be because his variety of flippers , top spinners , googlie , reverse drift cutters and many more . while murali is more consitent with conventional off spinners .
 
Ok…can you guys give us a bowler’s name amongst world’s top reputed bowlers, who had a terrible 47 odd average against a particular country.
 
aravinda1234 said:
Ok…can you guys give us a bowler’s name amongst world’s top reputed bowlers, who had a terrible 47 odd average against a particular country.
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Could you guess the supposed great bowler whose average against the best team in the world, away from his happy little doctored pitches, is 75.41?

Just throwing that out there.
 
Ghoshtbuster said:
Ok, just to make it clearer:

If you are the only bowler in a team, you will take all the wickets. Thus you end your career with a high number of wickets. If there are two bowlers in the team, the wickets will be shared, thus the number will be [relatively] lower.

With this [simplified] situation, you cannot say the following two points as individual attributes:

He took most wickets
He did it by himself

Since one follows the other.
Click to expand...

This is a good point but then we must consider another factor... the average, how many runs he had given to the opposition when he got those wickets.

So I just added another step to your argument,

1. He took most wickets
2. He did it by himself (well, this is not entirely true… we can say he did it with least support)
3. He gave only 22 runs for a wicket

Combine all three attributes then you have the answer.
 
Random Aussie said:
Could you guess the supposed great bowler whose average against the best team in the world, away from his happy little doctored pitches, is 75.41?

Just throwing that out there.
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Too ordinary, you are not answering to my question. Sorry... please read it again.
 
aravinda1234 said:
Too ordinary, you are not answering to my question. Sorry... please read it again.
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:D Your question referred to Shane Warne, now who does my question refer to?
 
Random Aussie said:
:D Your question referred to Shane Warne, now who does my question refer to?
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Who knows? :D

In your previous question, if you refer as ‘against once best team in the world’ or at least one of the best teams in the world (although I'm not sure) I could have a go.

But unfortunately I can’t help you there because as I said earlier... It’s just too ordinary. :D
 
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So Warney's mind-games seems to have taken the cake over Murali's mind-boggling scrambled seam.

I don't think people in the thread are giving Murali the credit he deserves.

He was named Wisden's Greatest bowler of all time for a reason (although I disagree with it). The man has it all, big spin (both ways), brilliant disguises, a 'killers hunger' for wickets (check out his eyes), and a scrambled seam to boot. Must be close to impossible to pick him out of the hands.
 
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saqibsalman said:
The man has it all, big spin (both ways),
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Wrong, Warne could not bowl the googly convincingly nor consistently, he relied mostly on his flippers as the change up from the conventional legspin....
 
Cheguvera said:
Wrong, Warne could not bowl the googly convincingly nor consistently, he relied mostly on his flippers as the change up from the conventional legspin....
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Wrong also to be technical.

At the beginning of his career, Warne had a decent turning googly. But it was too easy to pick.

In the mid part and most destructive section of his career, he used the flipper as a deadly weapon. This ended in 1998 when a sucession of injuries effectively ended his use of the flipper - he kept talking about it as part of the mind games but he could never land it properly again. Those injuries played a large part in his poor average against India incidentally. No need to make excuses for Warne and the Indians played him very well but they never faced him at his best. The reasonable Indian fans would acknowledge that.

For the final and most successful in terms of wickets part of his career, Warne used the slider and top spinner as his contrast ball to the leg break.

And for all of Murali's career he used his ability to throw the ball to get wickets. Thank you very much.
 
abc_to_xyz said:
Warne - His wicket taking ability was more then of Murali.
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Is that why warne has taken lesser amount of wickets than murali?
Having played more games than murali... how come he ended up behind in the wickets coloumn. :)))
 
Shoaib Akhtar's Fan said:
One is a legend. The other a chucker. End of discussion.
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You r a fan of shoib akthar, and he had the most cleanest action ever :))) End of discussion :14:
 
This article pretty much captures the entire nature of this debate. The experts who vote for Warne include someone who rates him better because of Murali's bowling action, and one who was absolutely clueless against spin and is a victim of Warne's 'aura'. The ones in favor of Murali include two top notch players of spin from India and an all-time great leg-spinner. Murali is better.

http://www.cricinfo.com/wac/content/story/225763.html?wrappertype=print
 
Warne was the better spinner for me.

I always thought that good leg-spin was more attractive to watch than off-spin.
 
BD-fan said:
(I think this is directed to me) He only played 138 tests before that all through out the world. Getting your rear whipped by a minnow team or (the way you guys say) not worthy of a test team since you want to exclude stats of those team ... what you make out of a legend?
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No you're missing the point. I never said anything about BD being minnows or not worthy ... but making judgements about a bowlers performance against a particular country cannot be made on 1 test match innings alone. (He played 2 tests against you didn't he? 11 wickets at 27 isn't bad)

ask said:
Is that why warne has taken lesser amount of wickets than murali?
Having played more games than murali... how come he ended up behind in the wickets coloumn. :)))
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When Courtney Walsh became the greatest ever wicket taker in tests I don't remember him being hailed as the greatest bowler ever. Nor was Ian Botham I imagine or Richard Hadlee. Stats aren't everything. Who do you rate more, Ponting or Lara? Well Pontings average is higher so he m ust be better.
 
Here we go with your stats.

Shane Warne was Genius
Murali was Very Good.

Shane Warne when he first came, the things he could do were considered alien, not in Murali's case.

Shane Warne, he was more clever, he has beaten the batsmen millions of time, Murali, just was a good bowler

If saqlain could of gone on longer he would have 600+ wickets by now..
 
TheRazzler said:
...
If ...... could of gone on longer he would have 600+ wickets by now..
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This "if" is a very weak statement. For the sake of argument:

If Hirwani could play a little longer I know for sure he would reach 1000 test wickets. (even though we all know he couldn't and didn't; it is a mute point).
+++
If you go by stats then you have to consider what is out there. Not what it may have happened. 1200+ intl wicket is no joke. Only one person has managed it and that is a fact.

If you can accept the fact that Tendu is the greatest run accumulator in the history of intl cricket then Murali is the greatest wicket taker in the history of intl cricket. Very simple.
 
Murali From wiki:

* The most Test wickets (777 wickets as of 22 August 2009).
* The most One-Day International wickets (505 wickets as of 6 May 2009).
* The highest number of international wickets in Tests and ODIs combined (1275 wickets as of 6 May 2009).
* The most 5-wicket hauls in an innings at Test level (66).
* The most 10-wicket hauls in a match at Test level (22). He is the only player to take 10 wickets/match against every Test playing nation.
* Fastest to 350, 400, 450, 500, 550, 600, 650 and 700[85] Test wickets, in terms of matches played.
* Only player to take 10 wickets in a Test in four consecutive matches. He has achieved this feat twice.
* Only player to take 50 or more wickets against every Test playing nation.
* Muralitharan and Jim Laker (England), are the only bowlers to have taken 9 wickets in a Test innings twice.
* 7 wickets in an innings against the most countries (5).
* Most Test wickets taken bowled (157),stumped (41) and caught & bowled (31).[91] Bowled by Muralitharan (b Muralitharan) is the most common dismissal in Test cricket (excluding run out).[92]
* Most successful bowler/fielder (non-wicket keeper) combination - c. Mahela Jayawardene b. Muttiah Muralitharan (67)
* Most Man of the Series awards in Test cricket (11).
* One of only six bowlers who have dismissed all the eleven batsmen in a Test match. Jim Laker, Srinivasaraghavan Venkataraghavan, Geoff Dymock, Abdul Qadir and Waqar Younis are the others.
* Most test wickets in a single ground. Muralitharan is the only bowler to capture 100-plus Test wickets at three venues, the Sinhalese Sports Club Ground in Colombo, the Asgiriya Stadium in Kandy and the Galle International Stadium in Galle.
* The only bowler to take 75 or more wickets in a calendar year on three occasions, achieving it in 2000, 2001 and 2006.

Murli has better Average against: Bangladesh, England, India, New Zealand, South Africa, West Indies and Zimbabwe.

Warne has better Average against: Pakistan

Murli has better strike-rate against: Windies, South Africa, New Zealand, India and Bangladesh.

Warne has better Strike-rate against: England, Pakistan, Zimbabwe,

Murli has the better Economy Rate.

Considering Warne also had some superb Bowling support and an excellent all-round team, that gave Warne somewhat better advantage that Murli.


Their both superb Spinners, but, IMO, stats speak for themeselves.

Murli is just better... Much better
 
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BD-fan said:
This "if" is a very weak statement. For the sake of argument:

If Hirwani could play a little longer I know for sure he would reach 1000 test wickets. (even though we all know he couldn't and didn't; it is a mute point).
+++
If you go by stats then you have to consider what is out there. Not what it may have happened. 1200+ intl wicket is no joke. Only one person has managed it and that is a fact.

If you can accept the fact that Tendu is the greatest run accumulator in the history of intl cricket then Murali is the greatest wicket taker in the history of intl cricket. Very simple.
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He is!!!

And it is dissapointing to see people taking so much credit away from him by calling him a cheat/chucker/thrower.

I myself enjoyed watching Warne ball more than Murali. The guile, the flight, the drift, the huge turn away from the bat. Then came all those many varities. Flipper, Zooter, Top spinner etc etc. Shane Warne never had a good googly and I hardly remember seeing him taking a wicket on a googly. But those subtle changes in turn (he knew exactly what amount of turn he was emparting on the ball) and the using of angles etc was a joy to watch. Murali in comparision was a little too methodical for me which from the point of view of a spectator can get "not too interesting" to watch.

However, how a person bowls and who is better can be at times 2 very different issues.
I enjoyed watching Wasim Akram and Mohammad Asif bowl more than any other bowler but it does not mean they are the best bowlers ever.

Warne was a better bowler (my opinion) but Murali was much more successful
 
boycott_IPL said:
No you're missing the point. I never said anything about BD being minnows or not worthy ... but making judgements about a bowlers performance against a particular country cannot be made on 1 test match innings alone. (He played 2 tests against you didn't he? 11 wickets at 27 isn't bad)
...
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You don't have to say it. That implies. Otherwise why would you want to take out the tally against BD and Zim?
boycott_IPL said:
Also, if you take out Bangladesh and Zimbabwe ....
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+++
Heck, Warne never faced one of the world's best batting line up during his entire career. I am sure his bowling average would take a hit.
+++
Bottom line is if you switch the two players, in my opinion, Murali would still come out on top in number of wickets, much less average and strike rate since he would not had to face the aussie greats at all. That is his greatness in getting wickets.
 
*sallu* said:
He is!!!

And it is dissapointing to see people taking so much credit away from him by calling him a cheat/chucker/thrower.

I myself enjoyed watching Warne ball more than Murali. The guile, the flight, the drift, the huge turn away from the bat. Then came all those many varities. Flipper, Zooter, Top spinner etc etc. Shane Warne never had a good googly and I hardly remember seeing him taking a wicket on a googly. But those subtle changes in turn (he knew exactly what amount of turn he was emparting on the ball) and the using of angles etc was a joy to watch. Murali in comparision was a little too methodical for me which from the point of view of a spectator can get "not too interesting" to watch.

However, how a person bowls and who is better can be at times 2 very different issues.
I enjoyed watching Wasim Akram and Mohammad Asif bowl more than any other bowler but it does not mean they are the best bowlers ever.

Warne was a better bowler (my opinion) but Murali was much more successful
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Thank you Sallu. We all have our likings. I am cool with that. But when our liking compells to degrade other great performers that is just sad.
 
If one says Warne had other bowlers then the other bowlers are taking wickets. Even with more tests Warne bowled less than Murali. SL just depended on Murali and he kept bowling.
Bottom line is if you switch the two players, in my opinion, Murali would still come out on top in number of wickets, much less average and strike rate since he would not had to face the aussie greats at all. That is his greatness in getting wickets.
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You can't really do that as the players develop differently.

For me it just comes to I liked watching Australia play and Warne bowling. For many here arguing will just be who did you like to watch more
 
Also, why shouldn't the stats of minnows be taken out? It is quite obvious that is a sad attempt to justify Murali racking up the wickets against them and thus lowering his average to what is an amazing 22 but in actuality close to 24.5 (still amazing by the way but not as great as 22)

Minnows are ruining test cricket with their appearances in it and padding a good number of people's statistics. They should definitely be removed or at least heavily discounted (exceptions can be made for "matchwinning performances" a la Inzi in his 138* against BD though I wouldn't mind removing that as well) in any sort of intellectual debate on cricket where statistics are coming into play.

Anyways, my opinions may never be validated by cricketing commissions unwilling to take real action but the point is that Warne is the superior spinner to me. He could have used every type of delivery yet was amazing even with just his stock delivery. He showed that you don't need to necessarily bowl mystery deliveries like Murali to get wickets but instead just fool batsmen in the flight, trajectory, and changes of pace to get wickets. A truly brilliant bowler.

What seals it for me though is the percentage of away wickets for the respective bowlers.

Murali:

298 of Murali's 783 wickets are away from home. His average rises from inhuman 22 to a good but not great 26.65 away from home (this is including BD and ZIM just to "make it fair" for the posters who have complained about it. His average, in fact, rises to an even more ordinary 27.41 excluding BD and ZIM away from home)

Warne:

362 of 708 wickets are away from home. His average stays basically the same as his career average with 25.50. This is, of course, including his aberration that is India which makes it all the more amazing. In fact, it only gets better if you remove his visits to Bangladesh and Zimbabwe which makes his average go to an amazing 24.56 away from home!

Conclusion:

Murali clearly enjoys the tailor made wickets for spin at home which afford him his incredible home record. When only 38% (in about half your career matches being away as well) of your wickets are taken abroad you definitely are not something special. Murali chucks and has an unfair advantage (without a doubt in my opinion) yet is still nothing compared to warne away from home
 
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Both Warne and Murali are legends of the game. Warne was smarter and Murali more cordial in the field. If I have to take only one spinner, I will prefer in my time to play against most of the teams. To play again Indian team, I will prefer Murali.
 
BD-fan said:
You don't have to say it. That implies. Otherwise why would you want to take out the tally against BD and Zim?
Click to expand...

Well I yes I am implying then that wickets against BD / Zim are worth less than higher ranked nations, but that makes sense doesn't it? This is no offense to your team just facts.

BD-fan said:
+++
Heck, Warne never faced one of the world's best batting line up during his entire career. I am sure his bowling average would take a hit.
Click to expand...
I've had this argument so many times .. does that mean that the achievements of the LA Lakers last season have to be seen as less remarkable because there was no other team with Bryant, Gasol etc...? Or that Leo Messi shouldn't be seen as the best footballer in the world because Barcelona don't have to play themselves?
Sorry but this seems a bit silly and not really reflective of the real world.

BTW I think there seem to be moer Shane Warne fans on this site that any Aussie cricket forum!
 
12thMan said:
If one says Warne had other bowlers then the other bowlers are taking wickets. Even with more tests Warne bowled less than Murali. SL just depended on Murali and he kept bowling.
You can't really do that as the players develop differently.
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1st Warne had other bowlers who took out the openers and the best batsmen of the team more often. Leaving Warne to feast on the rest. Plus when there is quality bowling from both sides it is easy to get wickets because batsmen would lose concentration. Bowling in tandem, or like wolves hunting in packs. That is test cricket. Murali did not enjoy either.
Here is a stat that you can easily get from statguru cricinfo.
In Test:
Position ---Murali ---Warne
---------224 inns---273 inns
1st--------56--------42
2nd-------71--------62
3rd--------72--------59
4th--------77--------62
...
8th--------70--------73
9th--------74--------75
10th------69---------72
11th------39---------43

I don't think you should have any more questions on who got easy wickets because of playing along side great bowlers.

As for having to able to bowl more balls and getting wickets here is the statistics.

Murali's SR is 54.6.
Warne's SR is 57.4.

Plus, how effective one can be after bowling 240+ deliveries in an innings? Afterall, Murali is not a machine. I think the less you bowl than that 240 mark more effective you can be, no?
 
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I'd like to see them face off in a streetfighter-2-esque brawl. Warne would be similar to Blanka , but would have a specially flipper bird kick and Murali would be Dhalsim with moves like the 15 degree bend.
 
boycott_IPL said:
No you're missing the point. I never said anything about BD being minnows or not worthy ... but making judgements about a bowlers performance against a particular country cannot be made on 1 test match innings alone. (He played 2 tests against you didn't he? 11 wickets at 27 isn't bad)


When Courtney Walsh became the greatest ever wicket taker in tests I don't remember him being hailed as the greatest bowler ever. Nor was Ian Botham I imagine or Richard Hadlee. Stats aren't everything. Who do you rate more, Ponting or Lara? Well Pontings average is higher so he m ust be better.
Click to expand...

Well if u look at my post closely, u'll find out that i was replying to a previous post saying "Warne had more wicket taking ability compared to murali". And my point was, if warne had that ability how come he become secound to murali with both wickets and average. One with more wicket taking ability gets more wickets. it's simple as that! By the way I didn't say murali was the greatest bowler ever, did i?
 
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Both of them have played 10 matches against each other.

Murli 52 wickets @ 30.51 ( SR 59.8 )
Warne 51 wickets @ 20.35 ( SR ( 44.4 )

This pretty much settles it, in similar conditions Warne outbowled Murli by miles. Now porbably someone will claim Australia are better players of spin.
 
Extreme Pace said:
Both of them have played 10 matches against each other.

Murli 52 wickets @ 30.51 ( SR 59.8 )
Warne 51 wickets @ 20.35 ( SR ( 44.4 )

This pretty much settles it, in similar conditions Warne outbowled Murli by miles. Now porbably someone will claim Australia are better players of spin.
Click to expand...

Not a good yard stick. Sri Lankan batting has never been great. Also I assume Wanre picked more tail ender wickets after MCGrath, etc blwoed away the top order

You have to chose a sample where BOTH bowl to the same batting order. Like India, South Africa
 
The_Cricket_Devil said:
Also, why shouldn't the stats of minnows be taken out?
Click to expand...
We all can sugar coat our analysis to make a point.

Warne overall got less quality wickets. Padded his stats with tailenders.

(Certainly you don't count top order wicket and tailender wicket equal).

Conclusion: Warne enjoyed garbage wickets while Murali got the lions. How do I sound now?
 
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