My gay daughter and her partner

[Champ_Pal]

You do realize there was no Urdu or Hindi (which is a derivative of Urdu) before the conquerors from the west invaded India? With them they brought a mix of languages. Look up the origins of Urdu. It’s a Turkish word which means “lashkari zuban”. Basically the armies of these conquerors had people across the arab/Persian/turkic areas and their intermingling resulted in Urdu. Hindi is just a name for Urdu with more addition of Sanskrit words.

Your hatred of Muslims and Pakistanis seem to be seeping through in your statement but I hope you are following where I am getting at. The language even you speak or your countrymen speak has its basis in multiculturalism. Based on our leaning we added more Persian/Arabic words and you guys added Sanskrit.

But even if we put that aspect of our origins aside. What is so bad about following a particular language? The truth is if you understand the language of the original text of an old book, you will better understand the message. Muslims always lay emphasis on learning Arabic because our faith demands we pray in Arabic. I have heard European adherents of Hinduism chant “hari om” so what’s really bad about it?

The point you made about Catholicism, is exactly the point of Muslims. The message of Christ has been diluted, mutated, subverted due to so many impurities. Bible was not in English originally, I hope you know that. It was not even in Latin. It was in Aramaic. The message got lost through translation. We have managed to preserve it by sticking to the Arabic language.

I can go on and on and tear your post apart there is much to dissect there, I could have a field day.. unfortunately it’s nearly Iftar time.

Looks like I touched a wrong nerve there.

You can give any excuse about why you do what you do. For outsiders it is clear as day light to see what is happening in Muslim countries.

Message of Christ being diluted is wrong. Just because Romans depicted Jesus as a white man does not mean Bible is changed. It is only a Muslim belief or misbelief if you are a Christian.

Jesus spoke Aramaic. They were translated to different languages. The message is same in every language. You do not need to learn Aramaic to understand the message of Jesus.

Regarding Urdu, it was the original Khadi Boli from the areas around Delhi and UP that was taken and modified it into Urdu. Hindi is only a version of Urdu made by purging Arabic.

Persian and Sanskrit are sister languages. There is so much similarity in words, they are practically identical.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

But when you are born, you are a Muslim. That is Islamic point of view.

I think you have a very superficial understanding of Islam and Islamic points of view...

 

[Suleiman]

May Allah swt protect me and my children from such a scenario.

Aameen. Most sane post in this entire thread.

 

[Suleiman]

Absolute degeneracy. Not sure what you intended posting this in a forum where the wide majority are Muslim.

A foul, disgusting article, showing how societies are reaching a new low every few years.

 

[The_KING]

How would you react as a religious person if your child came to you and said he/she is gay?

I would feel that I failed as a parent and didn't raise them properly.

Would you disown them or accept them and their same-sex partner as part of family?

I don't know about disowning them. Engaging in a homosexual relationship is a major sin in Islam, but it doesn't take them out of the fold of Islam. But there is no way, I would accept their relationship and their same-sex partner. Astaghfirullah.

 

[SalimBhai]

You are confusing yourself.

Pakistanis are part of the land area but have their own culture, they are not Hindu culture.

Kaaba was first made by the first human on Earth and later constructed by Abaraham (pbuh). There is no culture in Islam, its a way of life which actually negates most cultural practices.

The closest culture Pakistani culture is similar to is Indian Hindi culture. We eat the same food, language, music, customs more or less are the same. You can deny what your genetic make up is. Religions changes over time. You genetic make ups can't change.

 

[SalimBhai]

I don’t blame them because Islam does consider homosexuality haram. Does that mean Islam is anti gay? I mean it doesn’t say lynch and burn gays. But it acknowledges they engage in sinful activities.

Personally speaking, I believe sexual orientation is not a choice for all. It may be governed by certain biological factors but it’s usually out of the control of individuals. Those claiming here it’s all a matter of choice are wrong. It’s not.

Some Companions said that the punishment for homosexuality is to burn the homosexuals with fire, and some of them viewed that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. Some of them thought that they should be stoned to death.

 

[SalimBhai]

Why don't the same people expend the same energy attacking other major sins like drinking alcohol, receiving or giving interest, backbiting, missing prayers and committing zina/fornication. If they were not hypocritical (picking and choosing) or homophobic they would be treat these as equally as sinful. But they don't.

Great point.

 

[Stewie]

Looks like I touched a wrong nerve there.

You can give any excuse about why you do what you do. For outsiders it is clear as day light to see what is happening in Muslim countries.

Message of Christ being diluted is wrong. Just because Romans depicted Jesus as a white man does not mean Bible is changed. It is only a Muslim belief or misbelief if you are a Christian.

Jesus spoke Aramaic. They were translated to different languages. The message is same in every language. You do not need to learn Aramaic to understand the message of Jesus.

Regarding Urdu, it was the original Khadi Boli from the areas around Delhi and UP that was taken and modified it into Urdu. Hindi is only a version of Urdu made by purging Arabic.

Persian and Sanskrit are sister languages. There is so much similarity in words, they are practically identical.

Well of course I will get riled up because you bring offensive anti Muslim and anti Pakistan agenda to the table. I have tried to be respectful and hoped to have a mature discussion but doesn’t look like I am getting anywhere. Your comments were demeaning. Why was our adoption of Arab values, language and culture painted in a negative light?
Am I supposed to be apologetic for rejecting Hindu traditions and cultures of native Indians where you guys used to burn your widows and female infants?

What about the part where you guys equally aped your English masters and use English as your official language? Is that somehow more noble than Muslims of SC adopting something from Arabs?

I see almost all hindu Indians celebrating Christmas here in the USA. I bet you do as well. Take family pictures in pajamas like white Americans do with the Christmas tree in the back. What should I call all that nonsense. Losing Hindu identity and embracing Christianity?

 

[Major]

Culture and religion are clearly separate subjects, even though the Qur'an set to rectify the culture at the time. Most people fail to realise, for example, the practice of female babies being killed at birth/buried alive, BEFORE the revelation of the Qur'an. This is a clear distinction between what was culture, and what the Qur'an represents and set out to rectify.

However as we have seen, read, and heard, Hinduism is mainly a fusion of both culture and religion, so I can understand the frustration and lack of understanding from our Hindu friends, even though practices like Sati are ingrained within Hinduism.

they are not separate. The poster has a point.

Religion and culture are interlinked. For example, in Pakistan people make faces and judge you if you come to a janaza wearing western cloths and not wearing a shalwar kameez. Why? Because shalwar kameez has been associated as a muslim dress in Pakistan.

The reason why polygamy was retained in Islam was due to arab culture. Same practice is frowned upon in Pakistan.

Every religion and culture is interlinked.
[MENTION=156243]Champ_Pal[/MENTION] has a very valid argument, but he is just being shot upon only cause he is not muslim and the muslim posters are feeling insecure and saying he cant know more about Islam than them, while also commenting on hinduism at the same time

 

[Major]

That might be true of Hinduism but it does not apply to Abrahamic faiths. Christianity originated in the middle east, Jesus was originally a Jew, does that mean all the Western World is aping middle eastern culture? Most WESTERN Countries practice christianity. How about Christians in the far east?

You seem to be extremely ill informed and poorly educated on these matters, no offense.

bro in sociology classes, this topic is discussed and sociology professors often say that culture and religion are mostly interlinked.

Hence, you cant say the person is poorly educated, when this topic is of discussion in sociology classes

 

[Major]

You are confusing yourself.

Pakistanis are part of the land area but have their own culture, they are not Hindu culture.

Kaaba was first made by the first human on Earth and later constructed by Abaraham (pbuh). There is no culture in Islam, its a way of life which actually negates most cultural practices.

Pakistan does not have its own identity, our identity is still Indian identity.

Identity takes time to develop, and so does culture, there are events that your country goes to and finally establish an identity aswell as culture.

We love to bash BJP for removing Muslim names of theri cities and roads, when this is exactly Pakistan has done for many years.

We have made sure to erase our Indian identity and by creating a muslim identity. Our history that is taught starts from Muhammad Bin Qasim, only cause he was a muslim. The guy never even imagined that after 1000 years he would be considered as the founding father of a country which he never even intend to make.

Our missiles are named on Muslim warriors and mughals pre 1947. Why? Because we are still developing our history and identity. We dont have current heros to name our missiles or things.

Pakistan has its own culture? We are in 2023 and we still copy our marriage traditions. Infact, the marriage events have not reduced but increased. There is now sangeet and pre mhendi event added in our marriages. Something we still copy from Indian/hindu culture.

There is no culture of Islam? The pakistani govt conducts examinations for job and one of the topics of Islamiat is about Islamic Culture.

We are circumsized due to culture. We have Islamic calligraphy that we at every islamic place. Our Mosques have domes and have certain architect.

We live in the 21st century, yet muslims eat iftari on the floor because of culture, even though man made tables and chair so that one could eat comfortably. THis was infact part of arabic culture but was made into islamic culture

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The closest culture Pakistani culture is similar to is Indian Hindi culture. We eat the same food, language, music, customs more or less are the same. You can deny what your genetic make up is. Religions changes over time. You genetic make ups can't change.

The most basic culture we all share is not skin colour, music or food, it is humanity in it's broadest term. We all eat, we all have music, we all have spiritual questions etc. I don't know why you constantly obsess about Indian culture as an alleged Pakistani. This is surface level stuff.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

they are not separate. The poster has a point.

Religion and culture are interlinked. For example, in Pakistan people make faces and judge you if you come to a janaza wearing western cloths and not wearing a shalwar kameez. Why? Because shalwar kameez has been associated as a muslim dress in Pakistan.

The reason why polygamy was retained in Islam was due to arab culture. Same practice is frowned upon in Pakistan.

Every religion and culture is interlinked.

[MENTION=156243]Champ_Pal[/MENTION] has a very valid argument, but he is just being shot upon only cause he is not muslim and the muslim posters are feeling insecure and saying he cant know more about Islam than them, while also commenting on hinduism at the same time

I would say far from Muslims being insecure, most of them seem to be very secure in giving their views on this topic. I would argue it is the non-Muslims who seem to be insecure in that they seem to be directing this topic again and again onto Islamic POV when the OP is neither a Muslim, nor did he specify he wanted only Muslim views on this.

As I said previously, I would guess the reason why non-Muslims keep bringing this back to the Islamic verdict on this topic is because they are insecure about their own standing on this sensitive topic. Otherwise why would they be so concerned about others rather than answer the topic from their own point of view?

 

[Stewie]

Some Companions said that the punishment for homosexuality is to burn the homosexuals with fire, and some of them viewed that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. Some of them thought that they should be stoned to death.

That’s if you get caught in the act. Homosexual acts were subject to severe punishments even in the modern world and western countries unroll quite recently. It was considered a crime. This whole debate started in the 80s and 90s when in the US the tides changed and people started thinking what they do in their privacy of their own home is their business.

 

[Stewie]

bro in sociology classes, this topic is discussed and sociology professors often say that culture and religion are mostly interlinked.

Hence, you cant say the person is poorly educated, when this topic is of discussion in sociology classes

I don’t think you fully understand the context of the conversation. They are linked but

 

[Stewie]

bro in sociology classes, this topic is discussed and sociology professors often say that culture and religion are mostly interlinked.

Hence, you cant say the person is poorly educated, when this topic is of discussion in sociology classes

You don’t realize the context of the conversation. Go back and read some of his posts. You are actually already arguing against him when you say our culture is more close to the Indian culture. He was claiming that “Muslims ape Arabic culture everywhere” and then this other poster used the dynamics of effeminate men in pre Islam Arabic culture and somehow tied it to Islam and insinuated whether Islam “recognizes” third gender or not. These are all disconnected things. If you had a culture of labelling effeminate men with some term and associating certain social professions with then, Islam the religion has nothing to do with it.

Suggest you go back and look at the overall context of how this thread has been shaped. There are a lot of practices in the Arab world that non Arabs have not adopted. We don’t even speak their language.

 

[Abel Reames]

Of course religion and culture is linked. Islam the religion is like theory but when practiced by humans they infuse their culture. For example if Islam had no culture then Moroccan names would be exactly the same as Pakistani names, Bengali names, Indonesian names and Chechan names for examples. But they are different.

 

[Stewie]

Pakistan does not have its own identity, our identity is still Indian identity.

Identity takes time to develop, and so does culture, there are events that your country goes to and finally establish an identity aswell as culture.

We love to bash BJP for removing Muslim names of theri cities and roads, when this is exactly Pakistan has done for many years.

We have made sure to erase our Indian identity and by creating a muslim identity. Our history that is taught starts from Muhammad Bin Qasim, only cause he was a muslim. The guy never even imagined that after 1000 years he would be considered as the founding father of a country which he never even intend to make.

Our missiles are named on Muslim warriors and mughals pre 1947. Why? Because we are still developing our history and identity. We dont have current heros to name our missiles or things.

Pakistan has its own culture? We are in 2023 and we still copy our marriage traditions. Infact, the marriage events have not reduced but increased. There is now sangeet and pre mhendi event added in our marriages. Something we still copy from Indian/hindu culture.

There is no culture of Islam? The pakistani govt conducts examinations for job and one of the topics of Islamiat is about Islamic Culture.

We are circumsized due to culture. We have Islamic calligraphy that we at every islamic place. Our Mosques have domes and have certain architect.

We live in the 21st century, yet muslims eat iftari on the floor because of culture, even though man made tables and chair so that one could eat comfortably. THis was infact part of arabic culture but was made into islamic culture

You do not realize you actually argue for the other side while you are ranting like this. On one hand you say we don’t have our own identity then you say we do such and such like Arabs. Once again it’s all about context. Cultures and genetics take shape over time. It’s has been only 75 years since partition. Our cultures have continuously drifted apart. We were probably a lot closer to each other then but due to isolation and clear demarcation and other societal factors we are now quite different. Customs and habits also change over time due to certain factors. We are still pretty close though but once again this goes exactly opposite to what the guy you seem to be advocating here was claiming. He claimed we ape Arabs but the fact is we are still far closer to the Indian culture than we are the Arabic one.

But that’s where our identity is honestly. We will end up forging our very own distinct cultural identity somewhere in the middle in due time. We already have a lot of differences with our neighbors. National and cultural identities take a long time to take shape and 75 years in the overall context is a blink of an eye.

 

[Abel Reames]

and then this other poster used the dynamics of effeminate men in pre Islam Arabic culture and somehow tied it to Islam and insinuated whether Islam “recognizes” third gender or not. These are all disconnected things. If you had a culture of labelling effeminate men with some term and associating certain social professions with then, Islam the religion has nothing to do with it.

The terms khunsa (intersex) and mukhannath (effeminate men) are used in Islamic literature. Furthermore khunsa is subdivided again depending on which intersexed organ is used for urination.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Lol, look at the Islamophobes frothing furiously to bring their agenda every time. I would suggest you should learn something from the writer of the article in the OP who learned how to reconcile his own experience as a Hindu father of a gay daughter. This topic touches all societies, but if you are looking for answers from Islam, I think you will find Islam stands firmly against gay unions. It's not that deep.

 

[MenInG]

Lol, look at the Islamophobes frothing furiously to bring their agenda every time. I would suggest you should learn something from the writer of the article in the OP who learned how to reconcile his own experience as a Hindu father of a gay daughter. This topic touches all societies, but if you are looking for answers from Islam, I think you will find Islam stands firmly against gay unions. It's not that deep.

A bit sickening to see the hate for Islam for some.

Somehow they need to justify why they don't follow the religion they were born into etc.

The topic of this thread is about reconciliation/love for family etc

Stick to that.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

A bit sickening to see the hate for Islam for some.

Somehow they need to justify why they don't follow the religion they were born into etc.

The topic of this thread is about reconciliation/love for family etc

Stick to that.

Indeed. Maybe take a cue from the writer of the piece in the OP who described how he reconciled his own beliefs as a Hindu to come to terms with accepting a gay daughter. Posters should consider reflecting on how they would deal with a similar situation rather than launching into the usual dirge of Islamic texts and statutes. That is not what this thread is about in my view. Let's have some real insights which many genuine Muslim posters have provided on this thread.

 

[SalimBhai]

I think people have described what they would do if their child was gay. It’s some people who have described that they would not accept due to their religion which happens to be Islam

 

[Champ_Pal]

Indeed. Maybe take a cue from the writer of the piece in the OP who described how he reconciled his own beliefs as a Hindu to come to terms with accepting a gay daughter. Posters should consider reflecting on how they would deal with a similar situation rather than launching into the usual dirge of Islamic texts and statutes. That is not what this thread is about in my view. Let's have some real insights which many genuine Muslim posters have provided on this thread.

The creator of this thread is an Indian Christian I believe.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think people have described what they would do if their child was gay. It’s some people who have described that they would not accept due to their religion which happens to be Islam

That is the point, they are giving their own input due to their viewpoint. Non-Muslims can also do the same, we don't need to see the usual suspects hijacking yet another thread to indulge their anti-Islam agenda. For example, if you are a Hindu like the person in the article from the OP, you could explain how from your Hindu perspective you were able to accept a gay relationship entering into your household. This would be much more instructive than a Hindu, Sikh or Christian discussing Islamic views when it is not relevant to them personally.

 

[SalimBhai]

That is the point, they are giving their own input due to their viewpoint. Non-Muslims can also do the same, we don't need to see the usual suspects hijacking yet another thread to indulge their anti-Islam agenda. For example, if you are a Hindu like the person in the article from the OP, you could explain how from your Hindu perspective you were able to accept a gay relationship entering into your household. This would be much more instructive than a Hindu, Sikh or Christian discussing Islamic views when it is not relevant to them personally.

I think many Muslim and Christian parents have and will accept that their child is gay. Even it goes against their religious belief. It’s very hard to disown your child.

 

[Stewie]

That is the point, they are giving their own input due to their viewpoint. Non-Muslims can also do the same, we don't need to see the usual suspects hijacking yet another thread to indulge their anti-Islam agenda. For example, if you are a Hindu like the person in the article from the OP, you could explain how from your Hindu perspective you were able to accept a gay relationship entering into your household. This would be much more instructive than a Hindu, Sikh or Christian discussing Islamic views when it is not relevant to them personally.

But why not take an opportunity open for the taking, afterall thats why some of these hindu posters are here. There are a handful of them who actually genuinely bring something to the table but then there are some you know have an agenda. It is quite easy to identify the usual suspects.

 

[KingKhanWC]

So sexuality is fluid? You can picture yourself with a man?

I do not agree with any of that.

Aye? Im a Muslim.

You are assuming all desires are good. For me any man who has the desire to be with another man or same for women has a sinful, disgusting desire. I dont even like gay men using the same public toilets as me, they should have their own in a society where they are openly accepted.

Choclate cake isnt the most healthy food but its a good desire as its nourishment and enjoyment, as long as you dont have too much.

 

[RexRex]

Nurture is the reason why anyone is gay and thus the father in the OP only has himself to blame.
.

Nurture ? What did the father not do properly that his daughter had no choice but to turn gay ?

 

[Stewie]

Nurture ? What did the father not do properly that his daughter had no choice but to turn gay ?

You won’t win this battle here. It’s almost impossible for most Pakistanis to wrap their head around the concept of sexual orientation being not a choice. To them it’s “desire” which can be controlled. It’s the case of the “evil” and “forbidden” desire.

I know… it’s a head scratcher for me too. I never desired men so hard for me to understand that particular point. That being said, I know plenty of normal nurturing families that end up with a gay child.

I personally think, homosexual orientation is naturally occurring phenomenon and it happens in other species too (not just humans). It might be nature’s way of population control, perhaps. Not sure, but I am pretty confident it rarely a “choice”.

 

[SalimBhai]

You won’t win this battle here. It’s almost impossible for most Pakistanis to wrap their head around the concept of sexual orientation being not a choice. To them it’s “desire” which can be controlled. It’s the case of the “evil” and “forbidden” desire.

I know… it’s a head scratcher for me too. I never desired men so hard for me to understand that particular point. That being said, I know plenty of normal nurturing families that end up with a gay child.

I personally think, homosexual orientation is naturally occurring phenomenon and it happens in other species too (not just humans). It might be nature’s way of population control, perhaps. Not sure, but I am pretty confident it rarely a “choice”.

You are correct. I just never understand how being gay affects others lives. Live and let live. I have a gay cousin and he is a gem of a human being.

 

[Stewie]

You are correct. I just never understand how being gay affects others lives. Live and let live. I have a gay cousin and he is a gem of a human being.

Because if our tendency to drag extremism into everything. That’s who we are. Cannot see anything from a non religious angle. Everything has to be viewed from behind the shades of religiosity. And it may not be exactly a bad thing, but then again we don’t even have the proper understanding of our religion. Most people tend to freeze up while facing religious questions, don’t use their own heads and defer to the hate mongering mulla who have distorted everything. Our nation is conditioned to defer everything to them and that’s their business and power. Everyone and everything is an enemy to them.

 

[daytrader]

You won’t win this battle here. It’s almost impossible for most Pakistanis to wrap their head around the concept of sexual orientation being not a choice. To them it’s “desire” which can be controlled. It’s the case of the “evil” and “forbidden” desire.

I know… it’s a head scratcher for me too. I never desired men so hard for me to understand that particular point. That being said, I know plenty of normal nurturing families that end up with a gay child.

I personally think, homosexual orientation is naturally occurring phenomenon and it happens in other species too (not just humans). It might be nature’s way of population control, perhaps. Not sure, but I am pretty confident it rarely a “choice”.

It's not just Pakistanis. Many in the west don't believe it being a natural occurring phenomenon. They're just too afraid to speak up and being labelled homophobic

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You are correct. I just never understand how being gay affects others lives. Live and let live. I have a gay cousin and he is a gem of a human being.

It doesn't affect lives when it is a private affair, you will find that even in Muslim countries no one bothers that much what people do behind closed doors. But when it becomes a public issue, i.e. gay relations being taught in school sylabus, gay sex scenes on screens, gay rights to become religious authorities and such, then it starts affecting lives.

That's not a criticism, just a fact. It has to be dealt with by all societies at some point.

 

[Stewie]

It doesn't affect lives when it is a private affair, you will find that even in Muslim countries no one bothers that much what people do behind closed doors. But when it becomes a public issue, i.e. gay relations being taught in school sylabus, gay sex scenes on screens, gay rights to become religious authorities and such, then it starts affecting lives.

That's not a criticism, just a fact. It has to be dealt with , all societies at some point.

If you believe it’s not a choice, then why does any of it matter? If your kid is not gay, he/she won’t turn gay watching any of it. Gay relations is a funny word to use. It’s just education so kids don’t grow up homophobic and accept people for who they are. But I do admit some of these initiatives are overdoing it. It’s like shoving this stuff down your throat. And media and showbiz will always be their domain whether US, Pak or anywhere else. If you don’t like it don’t watch it.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

If you believe it’s not a choice, then why does any of it matter? If your kid is not gay, he/she won’t turn gay watching any of it. Gay relations is a funny word to use. It’s just education so kids don’t grow up homophobic and accept people for who they are. But I do admit some of these initiatives are overdoing it. It’s like shoving this stuff down your throat. And media and showbiz will always be their domain whether US, Pak or anywhere else. If you don’t like it don’t watch it.

This is just anecdotal but I have seen bisexuality and claims of transgenderism increase since it has been pushed into mainstream.

For example mainstream music videos/songs are filled with lesbian imagery and lyrics.

I personally think that this encourages people to think about alternative lifestyles.

 

[Stewie]

This is just anecdotal but I have seen bisexuality and claims of transgenderism increase since it has been pushed into mainstream.

For example mainstream music videos/songs are filled with lesbian imagery and lyrics.

I personally think that this encourages people to think about alternative lifestyles.

I will maintain this is not a choice. Do you feel turning gay with this increase in gay exposure? I don’t. I admit there are certain opportunists in media who pull such shenanigans for publicity “today I am gender neutral” or “I am sexually fluid” etc, but we know who these people are. Raise your kids right and you won’t have this problem.

Another way I look at it is that you are seeing more and more of these come out now because of more acceptance these days than in the past where they may have remained in the closet. But homosexuality is age old. It was generally accepted in ancient Greece and Rome. There are some theories that Aristotle and Socrates were gay lovers.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I will maintain this is not a choice. Do you feel turning gay with this increase in gay exposure? I don’t. I admit there are certain opportunists in media who pull such shenanigans for publicity “today I am gender neutral” or “I am sexually fluid” etc, but we know who these people are. Raise your kids right and you won’t have this problem.

Another way I look at it is that you are seeing more and more of these come out now because of more acceptance these days than in the past where they may have remained in the closet. But homosexuality is age old. It was generally accepted in ancient Greece and Rome. There are some theories that Aristotle and Socrates were gay lovers.

I think for many it is a choice, not for all gays.

 

[RexRex]

I think for many it is a choice, not for all gays.

Do you think male-female attraction has a genetic component to it or is it something that is learned ?

 

[Stewie]

I think for many it is a choice, not for all gays.

How can you quantify it though?

Would you say it’s 50/50 or 60/40 or 40/60?

I honestly do not believe that. I am so repulsed by the thought of it, it does not matter how much of this stuff is shoved down my throat, I won’t turn gay. As they say “I love the ladies too much” lol.

I agree though that there are some confused souls out there but eventually they figure it out. They are very small in number though to the real deal. Used to have a gay dude in my team and I worked with him for years. He was highly educated, very smart and a good friend. He was repulsed by the thought of being with a woman. It’s the same with them as well. My views on homosexuality changed after knowing him. I gradually learnt over time that they are really born this way. It’s not a choice.

 

[RexRex]

You won’t win this battle here. It’s almost impossible for most Pakistanis to wrap their head around the concept of sexual orientation being not a choice. To them it’s “desire” which can be controlled. It’s the case of the “evil” and “forbidden” desire.

Hope [MENTION=149166]Technics 1210[/MENTION] is atleast honest and admit that the only reason he thinks it's nurture rather than nature is because his holy book tells him so and that his blind conclusion isn't because of any logical reasoning.

 

[RexRex]

My views on homosexuality changed after knowing him. I gradually learnt over time that they are really born this way. It’s not a choice.

That is not surprising. This is what happened to the author of the article above. The only way somebody can truly understand the situation is by having the personal experience of having a gay friend or relative.

Infact, this is one of the chief criticisms of Conservatism as opposed to Liberalism. Conservatives can only empathise with another person's plight or misery if they themselves have experienced it. Or a personal revelation from a loved one is necessary. Liberals are more open-minded that not everything is black and white.

One example is US Senator Rob Portman who is a Republican. He had hardline evangelical views on gay mariage until his very own son came out as 20 year old gay man. His poltical views on the subject did a 180 deg turn.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Do you think male-female attraction has a genetic component to it or is it something that is learned ?

Combination of both imo.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

How can you quantify it though?

Would you say it’s 50/50 or 60/40 or 40/60?

I honestly do not believe that. I am so repulsed by the thought of it, it does not matter how much of this stuff is shoved down my throat, I won’t turn gay. As they say “I love the ladies too much” lol.

I agree though that there are some confused souls out there but eventually they figure it out. They are very small in number though to the real deal. Used to have a gay dude in my team and I worked with him for years. He was highly educated, very smart and a good friend. He was repulsed by the thought of being with a woman. It’s the same with them as well. My views on homosexuality changed after knowing him. I gradually learnt over time that they are really born this way. It’s not a choice.

Im not sure about the quantity.

Btw I do think there are people born homosexual. I sympathise with their plight.

But I do also think that the pushing of the LGBT narrative as a cool alternative progressive lifestyle can convince people.

 

[Technics 1210]

Sexual Arousal Patterns of Identical Twins with Discordant Sexual Orientations

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-33188-2

Genetically identical twins can differ in their self-reported sexual orientations. However, whether the twins’ subjective reports reflect valid differences in their sexual orientations is unknown. Measures of sexual orientation, which are free of the limitations of self-report, include genital arousal and pupil dilation while viewing sexual stimuli depicting men or women. We examined these responses in 6 male twin pairs and 9 female twin pairs who reported discordant sexual orientations. Across measures, heterosexual male twins responded more strongly to women than to men. Their homosexual co-twins showed an opposite pattern. Heterosexual female twins responded equally to both sexes, whereas their homosexual co-twins responded somewhat more to women than men. These differences within pairs were similar to differences between unrelated heterosexual and homosexual males and females. Our study provides physiological evidence confirming twins’ discordant sexual orientations, thereby supporting the importance of the non-shared environment for the development of sexual orientation and sexual arousal.

Two identical twins, with identical DNA sequences, yet both have difference sexual orientations based on their surroundings.

Homosexuality has nothing to do with DNA/Genetics, but everything to do with nurture.

People who claim Homosexuality is genetic, cite the evidence, otherwise move on because its about time society fess up to their responsibilities and the choices they have made, instead of blaming something else for their vices/vile behaviour.

 

[Stewie]

Sexual Arousal Patterns of Identical Twins with Discordant Sexual Orientations

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-33188-2



Two identical twins, with identical DNA sequences, yet both have difference sexual orientations based on their surroundings.

Homosexuality has nothing to do with DNA/Genetics, but everything to do with nurture.

People who claim Homosexuality is genetic, cite the evidence, otherwise move on because its about time society fess up to their responsibilities and the choices they have made, instead of blaming something else for their vices/vile behaviour.

From your source:

"Factors other than genetics must account for differences in identical twins’ sexual orientation and arousal. In theory, a combination of epigenetic and prenatal hormonal influences could affect the formation of human sexual orientation20,21,22,23,24. In addition, there is increasing evidence that mothers can have immunological reactions that lead to their sons’ homosexuality25,26,27. Any of these influences could lead to the twins’ discordances, but as of today, there is no clear evidence that these factors affect identical twins’ sexual orientations differently."


It is still not nurture. Nurture means someone intentionally turned brought them up a certain way to be gay. i.e man-made changes to turn someone a certain way. The study you used to prove your point does not prove that.

Physiological conditions/hormonal changes, etc are not intentional. This is still a case for "not being a matter of choice". Thank you for sharing, though, and helping me make my point.

 

[Stewie]

Im not sure about the quantity.

Btw I do think there are people born homosexual. I sympathise with their plight.

But I do also think that the pushing of the LGBT narrative as a cool alternative progressive lifestyle can convince people.

Can you share any examples where you think they tried to show it as a "cool alternative" to the more traditional hetero style of living? What you label as "cool" is usually an attempt to make it seem "normal".

60-70 years ago, it was probably frowned upon if a young guy and gal were shown on TV chasing after each other on TV in Pakistan. Now it is generally more accepted. These sensibilities change over time. Just because it was frowned upon, it did not change the nature of young people and if given the opportunity they would have still chased after each other.

Here is an interesting sidebar/thought though while we are at it. Most homosexual pornopgraphy on the internet is consumed from Pakistan. Why is that? May not be related to this topic, but I think its very interesting to note that there is a market for this stuff in a country where media NEVER EVER shows this "cool" alternative lifestyle. How do we explain this then? My take is that "over-restriction" or extreme limitation of such sexual preferences, making them taboo and a stigma has the resverse affect of making people more curious about it and thereby attracting them more towards it. So in a way you are driving them towards this stuff.

Not sure how many here would agree with this assessment of mine, but I feel normalizing it in a way may actually nullify the novelty factor of the whole thing.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Can you share any examples where you think they tried to show it as a "cool alternative" to the more traditional hetero style of living? What you label as "cool" is usually an attempt to make it seem "normal".

60-70 years ago, it was probably frowned upon if a young guy and gal were shown on TV chasing after each other on TV in Pakistan. Now it is generally more accepted. These sensibilities change over time. Just because it was frowned upon, it did not change the nature of young people and if given the opportunity they would have still chased after each other.

Here is an interesting sidebar/thought though while we are at it. Most homosexual pornopgraphy on the internet is consumed from Pakistan. Why is that? May not be related to this topic, but I think its very interesting to note that there is a market for this stuff in a country where media NEVER EVER shows this "cool" alternative lifestyle. How do we explain this then? My take is that "over-restriction" or extreme limitation of such sexual preferences, making them taboo and a stigma has the resverse affect of making people more curious about it and thereby attracting them more towards it. So in a way you are driving them towards this stuff.

Not sure how many here would agree with this assessment of mine, but I feel normalizing it in a way may actually nullify the novelty factor of the whole thing.

I'd be wary of any stats of that type to be perfectly honest, along the lines of the grooming stats in the UK, probably produced with an end in mind by vested interests.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Can you share any examples where you think they tried to show it as a "cool alternative" to the more traditional hetero style of living? What you label as "cool" is usually an attempt to make it seem "normal".

60-70 years ago, it was probably frowned upon if a young guy and gal were shown on TV chasing after each other on TV in Pakistan. Now it is generally more accepted. These sensibilities change over time. Just because it was frowned upon, it did not change the nature of young people and if given the opportunity they would have still chased after each other.

Katy Perry - I kissed a girl and I liked it.

The whole show Orange is the new black

Here is an interesting sidebar/thought though while we are at it. Most homosexual pornopgraphy on the internet is consumed from Pakistan. Why is that? May not be related to this topic, but I think its very interesting to note that there is a market for this stuff in a country where media NEVER EVER shows this "cool" alternative lifestyle. How do we explain this then? My take is that "over-restriction" or extreme limitation of such sexual preferences, making them taboo and a stigma has the resverse affect of making people more curious about it and thereby attracting them more towards it. So in a way you are driving them towards this stuff.

Not sure how many here would agree with this assessment of mine, but I feel normalizing it in a way may actually nullify the novelty factor of the whole thing.

I dont buy the statistics of Pakistans porn consumption tbh so cant really comment on it.

 

[Stewie]

Katy Perry - I kissed a girl and I liked it.

The whole show Orange is the new black




I dont buy the statistics of Pakistans porn consumption tbh so cant really comment on it.

They are both from the POV of women who have suppressed their homosexuality. I dont see how any of that is "cool", well I guess it actually kind of is for men though. LOL.

SO your contention is stuff like that can turn girls lesbians?

 

[SalimBhai]

Katy Perry - I kissed a girl and I liked it.

The whole show Orange is the new black




I dont buy the statistics of Pakistans porn consumption tbh so cant really comment on it.

Why not .if u look at the list it’s mostly countries that suppress sex, segregation of the sexes
Pakistan
Egypt
Vietnam
Iran
Morocco
India
Saudi Arabia
Turkey
Philippines
Poland

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

They are both from the POV of women who have suppressed their homosexuality. I dont see how any of that is "cool", well I guess it actually kind of is for men though. LOL.

SO your contention is stuff like that can turn girls lesbians?

Katy Perry isn't homosexual as far as I know. And if her song wasn't cool I doubt she would have released it with such success. I'd love to see her release a song "I made out with a 12 year old boy and I liked it", and see if that was as successful.

 

[Stewie]

Katy Perry isn't homosexual as far as I know. And if her song wasn't cool I doubt she would have released it with such success. I'd love to see her release a song "I made out with a 12 year old boy and I liked it", and see if that was as successful.

I am pretty sure she appealed more to straight men with that song than anything else.

So you are now equating consenting gay sex to underage sex? How are these two similar?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I am pretty sure she appealed more to straight men with that song than anything else.

So you are now equating consenting gay sex to underage sex? How are these two similar?

So it was cool then. Glad we agree.

I am not equating, If anything I am doing the opposite. Showing that homosexuality has become accepted, and demonstrating that by showing something which hasn't.

 

[Stewie]

So it was cool then. Glad we agree.

I am not equating, If anything I am doing the opposite. Showing that homosexuality has become accepted, and demonstrating that by showing something which hasn't.

Dude, you have really really warped logic here. This song appealed to hetero men. Not to hetero women or somehow turned them into lesbians. You ask a straight female about that song and you will get negative reviews.

Homosexuality has to be accepted because it exists. If someone was trying to force you to accept that bigfoot exists, and you resisted, i would be all for it but if you are claiming homosexuality should not be accepted, because it is a choice, i am afraid you have it all wrong.

Anyhow thats the last I will say on the subject because I already stated myself earlier that there is no convincing some people. Cheers to you guys.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Dude, you have really really warped logic here. This song appealed to hetero men. Not to hetero women or somehow turned them into lesbians. You ask a straight female about that song and you will get negative reviews.

Homosexuality has to be accepted because it exists. If someone was trying to force you to accept that bigfoot exists, and you resisted, i would be all for it but if you are claiming homosexuality should not be accepted, because it is a choice, i am afraid you have it all wrong.

Anyhow thats the last I will say on the subject because I already stated myself earlier that there is no convincing some people. Cheers to you guys.

Incest and beastality exists, do you accept this too and so should we all?

 

[Local.Dada]

Incest and beastality exists, do you accept this too and so should we all?

Are you seriously that thick?

You are equating abuse of innocent kids, defenseless animals to 2 consenting adults of normal clinical IQ deciding to do whatever they want in the privacy of their own bedroom?

I don’t get how someone can be sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. However it’s not of my concern to give sermons on things I don’t understand as long as it doesn’t effect me directly or not a violation of law.

 

[RexRex]

From your source:

"Factors other than genetics must account for differences in identical twins’ sexual orientation and arousal. In theory, a combination of epigenetic and prenatal hormonal influences could affect the formation of human sexual orientation20,21,22,23,24. In addition, there is increasing evidence that mothers can have immunological reactions that lead to their sons’ homosexuality25,26,27. Any of these influences could lead to the twins’ discordances, but as of today, there is no clear evidence that these factors affect identical twins’ sexual orientations differently."


It is still not nurture. Nurture means someone intentionally turned brought them up a certain way to be gay. i.e man-made changes to turn someone a certain way. The study you used to prove your point does not prove that.

Physiological conditions/hormonal changes, etc are not intentional. This is still a case for "not being a matter of choice". Thank you for sharing, though, and helping me make my point.

So Technic shot himself in the foot by posting this article. Too funny

His holy book commands him to have this 'nurture' opinion on homosexuality, not science.

 

[RexRex]

Absolute degeneracy. Not sure what you intended posting this in a forum where the wide majority are Muslim.

A foul, disgusting article, showing how societies are reaching a new low every few years.

I posted this so that you could open your eyes and realise that are plenty of homosexuals in Pakistan as well including many muslims. This isn't just a western phenomenon or something that is incubated by a permissive liberal culture.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

They are both from the POV of women who have suppressed their homosexuality. I dont see how any of that is "cool", well I guess it actually kind of is for men though. LOL.

SO your contention is stuff like that can turn girls lesbians?

Yes I think it can.

In fact I have seen it with my own eyes.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Why not .if u look at the list it’s mostly countries that suppress sex, segregation of the sexes
Pakistan
Egypt
Vietnam
Iran
Morocco
India
Saudi Arabia
Turkey
Philippines
Poland

Its interesting that no major western country is on the list.

These countries film porn, the actors/actresses are form the western countries, the 'dialogues' are in English and major porn conventions are held in the western countries.

In the UK we get at least 2 newspapers articles of teachers or students etc quitting their education/jobs to make onlyfans.

Yet western countries aren't on the lists

 

[Stewie]

Yes I think it can.

In fact I have seen it with my own eyes.

Interesting! I guess I have to believe it because you said so. lol

 

[Local.Dada]

Its interesting that no major western country is on the list.

These countries film porn, the actors/actresses are form the western countries, the 'dialogues' are in English and major porn conventions are held in the western countries.

In the UK we get at least 2 newspapers articles of teachers or students etc quitting their education/jobs to make onlyfans.

Yet western countries aren't on the lists

Western countries do make porn or have studious that produce adult content but guess where most of it is consumed. Before you make this a Ind vs Pak thing, the larger point is it is mostly in those countries that are listed.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Are you seriously that thick?

You are equating abuse of innocent kids, defenseless animals to 2 consenting adults of normal clinical IQ deciding to do whatever they want in the privacy of their own bedroom?

I don’t get how someone can be sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. However it’s not of my concern to give sermons on things I don’t understand as long as it doesn’t effect me directly or not a violation of law.

Im afraid its you who is thick .

Incest not intimate relations with kids. At least learn the definition before you make a fool of yourself. If two adults indulge in incest why is frowned upon while gay relations is fine?

Its not my concern either but we are allowed to have our opinions.

 

[Local.Dada]

Im afraid its you who is thick .

Incest not intimate relations with kids. At least learn the definition before you make a fool of yourself. If two adults indulge in incest why is frowned upon while gay relations is fine?

Its not my concern either but we are allowed to have our opinions.

Cousin marriages are also considered incest in some cultures and normal in others.

Now coming to why is incest not allowed and gays not frowned upon, I would assume you know the difference that the emotional bonding and connect with your immediate family is not the same as you would have with a third party . I am not even sure why that is a question?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Cousin marriages are also considered incest in some cultures and normal in others.

Now coming to why is incest not allowed and gays not frowned upon, I would assume you know the difference that the emotional bonding and connect with your immediate family is not the same as you would have with a third party . I am not even sure why that is a question?

You really are clueless. Incest is immediate family. I told you to check a dictionary, not a Hindutva one.

How the heck do you know if incest isnt as emotional bond as gay relations? Its upto the people to decide this not you.

 

[Technics 1210]

His holy book commands him to have this 'nurture' opinion on homosexuality, not science.

My holy book?

The link I posted is science, you have no response to it, identical DNA, but different sexual orientation, but if you want to speak about holy books, your holy book says homosexuality is an abomination.

Shame you have not presented any evidence supporting your claim that homosexuality is natural but perhaps its because we have just come out of Easter, but only reply to me once you argue with evidence, and not emotive rhetoric.

 

[Technics 1210]

Homosexuality accounts for about 4% of the world’s population, meaning 1 in 25 choose their sexual orientation.

The problem with the father in the OP is he was too busy earning his dough while his child felt neglected, and as a result his child rebelled and decided to make choices that not only sought retribution towards her father, but acceptance in the current woke climate.

It is a similar story with teenagers who resort to crime; they are not born criminals, but society and neglect influences them into making a choice to commit crime - the same principle with homosexuality; you’re not born gay, but your surroundings will 100% influence your sexual orientation.

 

[Stewie]

My holy book?

The link I posted is science, you have no response to it, identical DNA, but different sexual orientation, but if you want to speak about holy books, your holy book says homosexuality is an abomination.

Shame you have not presented any evidence supporting your claim that homosexuality is natural but perhaps its because we have just come out of Easter, but only reply to me once you argue with evidence, and not emotive rhetoric.

Did you even read the whole thing? Or are you conveniently choosing to ignore the part I had quoted in post#127?

 

[Stewie]

You really are clueless. Incest is immediate family. I told you to check a dictionary, not a Hindutva one.

How the heck do you know if incest isnt as emotional bond as gay relations? Its upto the people to decide this not you.

Incest is declared unlawful. Homosexuality is not unlawful. (Speaking of western societies) which makes it a dilemma for Muslims whether to be tolerant of gays or not because while Islam deems homosexuality haram, it also states to respect and follow the laws of the land where you live.

Like I said I dont like it either but I am tolerant of it. I realize its not a matter of choice, the part which most people here disagree with me on but i firmly believe it is not a matter of choice.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Incest is declared unlawful. Homosexuality is not unlawful. (Speaking of western societies) which makes it a dilemma for Muslims whether to be tolerant of gays or not because while Islam deems homosexuality haram, it also states to respect and follow the laws of the land where you live.

Like I said I dont like it either but I am tolerant of it. I realize its not a matter of choice, the part which most people here disagree with me on but i firmly believe it is not a matter of choice.

Of course we Muslims have to live by the law of the land. I stated earlier, I work with gay people, interact with them in society and mean them no harm but it doesnt mean I have to accept their way of life is correct. Its disgusting and if they ask I will tell them I believe this.

 

[Stewie]

Of course we Muslims have to live by the law of the land. I stated earlier, I work with gay people, interact with them in society and mean them no harm but it doesnt mean I have to accept their way of life is correct. Its disgusting and if they ask I will tell them I believe this.

I think we may have misconstrued the discussion or gotten our wires crossed.

Acceptance: means you accept something as ok, or normal.
Tolerance: you may not like it but you decide to tolerate it.

I dont think anybody has the right to tell anyone to accept anything if a person chooses to not do so. But tolerance is a requirement due to one's civic duties.

So I tolerate it. This issue is tricky. This is the best i can explain it. I know it sounds a bit like word gymnastics but the fact is if I say I accept it, means i am ok with doing it myself which i am not. But its none of my business if someone else does it. End of story

 

[KingKhanWC]

I think we may have misconstrued the discussion or gotten our wires crossed.

Acceptance: means you accept something as ok, or normal.
Tolerance: you may not like it but you decide to tolerate it.

I dont think anybody has the right to tell anyone to accept anything if a person chooses to not do so. But tolerance is a requirement due to one's civic duties.

So I tolerate it. This issue is tricky. This is the best i can explain it. I know it sounds a bit like word gymnastics but the fact is if I say I accept it, means i am ok with doing it myself which i am not. But its none of my business if someone else does it. End of story

Nothing here I can disagree with.

The problem is in western society liberalism often forces you to accept things which you may disagree with.

I.e If a gay person or even if your child claims to be gay, asks you how you feel about their lifestyle. If you were recorded to say 'I find it wrong' even though you clarify you mean no harm or hate, you will be seen as a conservative extremist. If you go further explaining your reasons, you maybe arrested for inciting hate.

100 years ago this would be unthinkable.

 

[Energy]

Getting along with gay people at work etc is easy and tolerable. Because they don't affect you directly.

The underlying issue is if the influence of positive homosexuality education is enough to corrupt the mind of your child. As a parent that's not an easy one to tolerate and I'll do everything I possibly can to not let this happen to my family, God forbid.

Advocating for pushing gender education as a core subject is sickening. Wish similar emphasis was given on promoting history or arts or other meaningful stuff in schools rather than dishing out stupidity in your faces.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Dude, you have really really warped logic here. This song appealed to hetero men. Not to hetero women or somehow turned them into lesbians. You ask a straight female about that song and you will get negative reviews.

Homosexuality has to be accepted because it exists. If someone was trying to force you to accept that bigfoot exists, and you resisted, i would be all for it but if you are claiming homosexuality should not be accepted, because it is a choice, i am afraid you have it all wrong.

Anyhow thats the last I will say on the subject because I already stated myself earlier that there is no convincing some people. Cheers to you guys.

You are the one who insisted Katy Perry's song about kissing a girl wasn't cool, I was just contesting that view by showing that if it wasn't she wouldn't have even contemplated releasing it. Neither would it have shot to to the top of the charts. If you think only men liked it then you really have more warped logic than most. I didn't claim anything about homosexuality should not be accepted either, you are jumping the gun there.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Western countries do make porn or have studious that produce adult content but guess where most of it is consumed. Before you make this a Ind vs Pak thing, the larger point is it is mostly in those countries that are listed.

I'm guessing India. It's got one of the largest populations in the world, it obviously will be a huge consumer, especially since so many Indians are always quoting stats about it. They must follow it pretty obsessively.

 

[Stewie]

Nothing here I can disagree with.

The problem is in western society liberalism often forces you to accept things which you may disagree with.

I.e If a gay person or even if your child claims to be gay, asks you how you feel about their lifestyle. If you were recorded to say 'I find it wrong' even though you clarify you mean no harm or hate, you will be seen as a conservative extremist. If you go further explaining your reasons, you maybe arrested for inciting hate.

100 years ago this would be unthinkable.

I think the extremes in either case are bad. Both liberals and conservatives are extremists. Both sides try to impose their views on you.
There was a case in Texas a few years back when they declared gays could get marriage licenses. A couple walks in at the marriage registrar's office to get a marriage license and the registrar who happened to be a conservative white female refused it. Her contention was its against her religion to do it.

So, you see both sides tend to strong arm you into doing their bidding because it is a system of control which can help them assert their authority. Which is why I tend ro run away from people who tend to deal in absolutes. THe right will try to convince you its fully a matter of choice. I disagree. Left will try to shout in your years to go join a rainbow parade, I say is it not enough I accept them for who they are? Why do i have to "support" them?

The overall media exposure and school curriculum may have the right idea. You want kids to learn this thing exists so they can be tolerant towards them rather than get to a more mature age where the mind is not receptive to such concepts and takes them for abominations. But I think people tend to over do it. You dont have to start teaching little elementary age kids or make it sound oh so wonderful. Human beings mostly fail to maintain that balance due to .. once again.. the innate desire to assert control through dealing in absolutes.

In the case of the woman i mentioned, i dont know if she was fired or what became of her lawsuit, I thought she was wrong to suggest her religion wont allow her to do her job. You are being asked to do your job and do a lawful thing, you are not personally asked to bless the union of two homosexuals, or engage in any homosexual acts.

So there are varying degrees of opinion and acceptance here. Striking a moderate balance is the key.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Homosexuality accounts for about 4% of the world’s population, meaning 1 in 25 choose their sexual orientation.

The problem with the father in the OP is he was too busy earning his dough while his child felt neglected, and as a result his child rebelled and decided to make choices that not only sought retribution towards her father, but acceptance in the current woke climate.

It is a similar story with teenagers who resort to crime; they are not born criminals, but society and neglect influences them into making a choice to commit crime - the same principle with homosexuality; you’re not born gay, but your surroundings will 100% influence your sexual orientation.

Very good point. The liberals are by nature rebellion against what has been the norm for thousands of years. If homosexuality was around for 500 years, the liberals would be wanting something else to root for. They often instigate with ideologies to rebel against society.

 

[Local.Dada]

I'm guessing India. It's got one of the largest populations in the world, it obviously will be a huge consumer, especially since so many Indians are always quoting stats about it. They must follow it pretty obsessively.

Absolutely. I knew you would jump all over it but it’s true. Also the fact that there are a lot more people in general but also a lot more with access to cell phone and network. India has banned a lot of sites too but then the education and accessibility to technology probably lets people get around it.

Having said that you may not like the numbers or the popular genres that are popular in Pakistan too. Maybe lack of awareness or vpn or such things make it more transparent and embarrassing.

It wasn’t about Ind-Pakistan; it’s about oppressive societies consume porn more. That’s the larger point that you missed. If you want to believe Pakistan is a oppressive society or not I will leave it to you.

The fact that post stood out to you among every thing else I said says a lot doesn’t it?