Narendra Modi Makes First Visit to Israel by Indian PM, Ignores Palestine

[Varun]

Surely you won't deny somebody free healthcare simply because they disagree with their country's foreign policy?

If I was a Pakistani / Muslim and for whatever reason combusted every time the Arab - Jew issue is brought up I will never set foot in the land of Israel's core allies - the US and UK, leave alone have my entire family immigrate and latch onto subsidized healthcare and education when I get there.

 

[Asim_khan]

If I was a Pakistani / Muslim and for whatever reason combusted every time the Arab - Jew issue is brought up I will never set foot in the land of Israel's core allies - the US and UK, leave alone have my entire family immigrate and latch onto subsidized healthcare and education when I get there.

Well it's not really an Arab- Jew issue, and a shame on anyone who characterizes as that, there are plenty of Arabs who are pro Israel, as are Jewish people are are anti-Israel.

And what if this gentleman is British born? Is he not allowed to form an opinion which opposes that of his government?

 

[Varun]

Well it's not really an Arab- Jew issue, and a shame on anyone who characterizes as that, there are plenty of Arabs who are pro Israel, as are Jewish people are are anti-Israel.

It is very much an Arab - Jew issue. If it isn't, pray tell us what is it? Highlighting the .01% exceptions to the rule on both sides doesn't go far enough to dispel the fact that it's a conflict that began between the Jewish population in that area and the surrounding Arab people back in 1948.

And what if this gentleman is British born? Is he not allowed to form an opinion which opposes that of his government?

If he is British born he doesn't realize that by making a living in that country he is assisting - at least in part - the British and Western support to Israel.

My argument nevertheless doesn't disappear even if he is British born. You can channel it to his prior generation who immigrated to the UK from Pakistan.

 

[Asim_khan]

It is very much an Arab - Jew issue. If it isn't, pray tell us what is it? Highlighting the .01% exceptions to the rule on both sides doesn't go far enough to dispel the fact that it's a conflict that began between the Jewish population in that area and the surrounding Arab people back in 1948.



If he is British born he doesn't realize that by making a living in that country he is assisting - at least in part - the British and Western support to Israel.

My argument nevertheless doesn't disappear even if he is British born. You can channel it to his prior generation who immigrated to the UK from Pakistan.

It's an Israeli - Palestinian issue. You take away agency from Palestinians when you characterize it as an arab issue. That was Palestinian land the immigrants snatched, that's why they'd rather stay in refugee camps than assimilate into other arab lands, cos they have their own distinctive identity which is lost when they're characterized simply as arabs, cos it wrongly assumes that all Arabs are thus in a position to speak for Palestinians, when they're clearly not. The conflict began when Palestnians were forced off their land by European settlers.

As for the second point, those are sins of the prior generation, not his. And he's well within his right to protest against his countries foreign policy, and attempt to change it. That's how it works in most democracies. It's how foreign policy in the past was changed.

 

[Varun]

It's an Israeli - Palestinian issue. You take away agency from Palestinians when you characterize it as an arab issue. That was Palestinian land the immigrants snatched, that's why they'd rather stay in refugee camps than assimilate into other arab lands...

This is a result of accident, not design. Scores of Palestinians have been expelled from Arab lands over the years - might I remind you of the 0.4 Million who were hurled out of Kuwait in 1991 alone after the PLO flew the flag for Saddam in the Gulf War?

Further, not a single Arab nation has accepted a single Syrian refugee during the ongoing crisis, and they are in a similar boat to Palestinians for the moment. The Arabs are dish-dasha donning despots with pan-Gulf bonds first, pan-Arab bonds second and pan-Islamic bonds last. For that matter even Qatar seems to have been demoted in recent times.

 

[Asim_khan]

This is a result of accident, not design. Scores of Palestinians have been expelled from Arab lands over the years - might I remind you of the 0.4 Million who were hurled out of Kuwait in 1991 alone after the PLO flew the flag for Saddam in the Gulf War?

Further, not a single Arab nation has accepted a single Syrian refugee during the ongoing crisis, and they are in a similar boat to Palestinians for the moment. The Arabs are dish-dasha donning despots with pan-Gulf bonds first, pan-Arab bonds second and pan-Islamic bonds last. For that matter even Qatar seems to have been demoted in recent times.

So you agree they've been expelled by other Arab countries because they're different and unique, so we should agree that we stop saying it's an arab issue, because your example clearly shows that it's not, It's a Palestinian issue, and its affects Palestinians and not other Arab countries, nor KingKhanWC.

And as for claiming not a single arab country has taken in a Syrian refugee, this UNHCR website disagrees http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php#_ga=1.128868044.1778685149.1487685008

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It is very much an Arab - Jew issue. If it isn't, pray tell us what is it? Highlighting the .01% exceptions to the rule on both sides doesn't go far enough to dispel the fact that it's a conflict that began between the Jewish population in that area and the surrounding Arab people back in 1948.



If he is British born he doesn't realize that by making a living in that country he is assisting - at least in part - the British and Western support to Israel.

My argument nevertheless doesn't disappear even if he is British born. You can channel it to his prior generation who immigrated to the UK from Pakistan.

So if it's an Arab-Israeli issue, why are you and your Indian friends posting on this topic so energetically yet moaning about a British Pakistani giving his views on the same subject? Seems like you are more interested in discussing the poster than the topic itself.

 

[enkidu_]

Israel's demographics are changing radically, the Ashkenazim (intellectual class) is not having enough children, while the haredim (ultra Orthodox) pop up 6 per lady, and they're known to not only not take part in military service but also to rebuke all "secular knowledge" - many say that they'll be the majority of Israel's Jews in 2050, and considering they're economically inactive, it will be quite dramatic.

 

[Specialisttailender]

The problem with some muslims on this thread is that they live in their own little world, they talk about liberating Palestine, defeating nuclear armed forces and blah blah blah.. In reality baring a bankrupt Pakistan who is under the influence of the US & Chinese no other Islamic country has a military might to even start a push and shove match vs countries like Israel. Plain reality is that Islamic world is not politically or even financially strong enough to defeat Israel, so all that will come out of this is some chest thumping but reality will always be what it is now Israel will rule their land, Palestinians will keep crying and life goes on........


P.S. Waiting for KingKhan's ONE DAY things will change lol

Only Pakistani muslims care, I doubt Iraqis or Syrians care about Kashmir or even aware of such independent movement.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Only Pakistani muslims care, I doubt Iraqis or Syrians care about Kashmir or even aware of such independent movement.

What about Indian Muslims, do they care? or are they more bothered about having the right to eat beef or have Shariah compliant divorce laws?

 

[Varun]

Only Pakistani muslims care, I doubt Iraqis or Syrians care about Kashmir or even aware of such independent movement.

That's because the Arabs aren't in the business of trying to impress Pakistan, but the opposite is true: British Pakistanis (mainly) raise a big hue and cry on the Israel - Palestine issue to show solitude and fit in with the Arabs. The only problem is the majority of Arabia couldn't give two hoots about this problem themselves.

When it comes to Yemen being bombed as we speak, or Muslims being made to feel unwelcome in parts of China, or the Rohingyas who still haven't found a home you won't find too many sympathizers for one reason or another, with the overall theme being that since either the Arabs are complicit in the operation, or since they aren't watching it isn't worth the effort of trying to showcase said (British) Pakistani solitude.

 

[sshakir411]

Did Modi bring in Indian made prescription pills on his plane that have flooded the West Bank and Gaza in the last 5 years?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

If I was a Pakistani / Muslim and for whatever reason combusted every time the Arab - Jew issue is brought up I will never set foot in the land of Israel's core allies - the US and UK, leave alone have my entire family immigrate and latch onto subsidized healthcare and education when I get there.

If I was an Indian constantly moaning about Islam and Arabs I doubt I would step foot in an Arab country never mind accept their money and associated benefits to work in an Islamic Arab country. But then some don't seem to have a problem with that. Why don't you tell us all about it?

 

[Mamoon]

Once again proves his greatness. Easily one of the best leaders in Indian history.

 

[syed abbas]

Once again proves his greatness. Easily one of the best leaders in Indian history.

How visiting Israel makes a leader great?
And by equating him with the best leaders,you are being unjust to Akbar,M.Gandhi,Abul Kalam Azad,Nehru and I.Gandhi.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Would Palestinians agree to this including Hezbollah.

Sure as Hezbollah are from Lebanon and will continue to live there.

 

[Mamoon]

How visiting Israel makes a leader great?
And by equating him with the best leaders,you are being unjust to Akbar,M.Gandhi,Abul Kalam Azad,Nehru and I.Gandhi.

A great leader only concerns himself/herself with what's best for his/her country. It is beneficial for India to have good ties with Israel, there is nothing to gain from siding with Palestine.

 

[Mamoon]

How visiting Israel makes a leader great?
And by equating him with the best leaders,you are being unjust to Akbar,M.Gandhi,Abul Kalam Azad,Nehru and I.Gandhi.

And one of the best Indian leaders because he knows what's good for his country unlike his predecessors. For example, Vajpayee was a weak leader who almost handed the keys of Kashmir to Musharraf on a platter. Whilst Modi is bad news for Pakistan and Muslims in general, he is the best thing to have happened to India in a long, long time.

 

[KingKhanWC]

A great leader only concerns himself/herself with what's best for his/her country. It is beneficial for India to have good ties with Israel, there is nothing to gain from siding with Palestine.

India has had good ties to Israel for decades now. Where have you been living?

 

[Mamoon]

India has had good ties to Israel for decades now. Where have you been living?

Yes but that's not relevant to the point I'm making. Modi is being criticized for being inhuman towards Palestine, but I'm simply explaining the fact that showing compassion towards Palestine does India no good.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yes but that's not relevant to the point I'm making. Modi is being criticized for being inhuman towards Palestine, but I'm simply explaining the fact that showing compassion towards Palestine does India no good.

There has been zero indication this man has a single compassionate bone in his body. He isn't known as the butcher of Gujrat for cutting beef steaks. His continued aggression against Kashmiri's has also shown he has no compassion side. Both leaders are the same and there is nothing great about oppressing those who are weaker than you. In history they will be known as nothing more than war criminals by any neutral party.

 

[hussain123]

I am not sure if it is a diplomatic suicide of sorts?it is a leap from a transactional relationship to a more strategic one which won't go well with many iran and several arab countries.iran by now has twice in a week referred to oppressed kashmiri people and put its judiciary in support of kashmir cause.this is also an opportunity for pakistan to put back its relations with Iran on track.one thing that is unique to both israel and india is their society's rabid hate concealed unconcealed for the muslim world.more of enemy's enemy is my friend.after pissing off russia which culminated with it forming strategic relations with pakistan,it may turn out to be another off goof up.

 

[90MPH]

And one of the best Indian leaders because he knows what's good for his country unlike his predecessors. For example, Vajpayee was a weak leader who almost handed the keys of Kashmir to Musharraf on a platter. Whilst Modi is bad news for Pakistan and Muslims in general, he is the best thing to have happened to India in a long, long time.

Stop talking utter tripe - it was Mushraff that made the offer to make Kashmir an open acesss region so peace could be achieved once and for all. Vajpayee craped himself because he knew many in his own party would never accept such a deal.

And no it's utterly ridiculous to say Modi is a great leader - based on what exactly ??

History will judge him in a few years - and he's already stained himself before he became PM with the Gujarat massacre.

 

[syed abbas]

And one of the best Indian leaders because he knows what's good for his country unlike his predecessors. For example, Vajpayee was a weak leader who almost handed the keys of Kashmir to Musharraf on a platter. Whilst Modi is bad news for Pakistan and Muslims in general, he is the best thing to have happened to India in a long, long time.

He is not doing any good to India by helping India to achieve high GDP rate only.The rising extremism in India is due to his policies and his patronage of Hindu extremist groups.He,unlike his predecessors,is trying his best to make India a country based on Hindu nationalist ideas.India,otherwise a secular democracy,is becoming what Germany was under Hitler.
And Modi is not bad for Pakistan.Modi's policy of isolating Pakistan has not worked.Infact,India has allied itself with America,which is against India's neutralist principle in foreign affairs.This has brought Russia,China and Iran more closer to Pakistan.

 

[syed abbas]

If Saudi Arabia can have good relations with India(considered as oppressor of Muslims of Kashmir),then why can't Pakistan have normal,if not good,relations with Israel?

 

[Pakpak]

If Saudi Arabia can have good relations with India(considered as oppressor of Muslims of Kashmir),then why can't Pakistan have normal,if not good,relations with Israel?

We should offer them full recognition. We have recognised India, even though they have been raping Kashmiris for decades now. So if we can recognise a nation who has been doing that and who has also fought three brutal wars with us then illogical to not recognise Israel.

There is nothing to be gained from having an enemy and they are a country which won't go away, despite some Call of Duties fantasies from certain posters.

 

[KingKhanWC]

We should offer them full recognition. We have recognised India, even though they have been raping Kashmiris for decades now. So if we can recognise a nation who has been doing that and who has also fought three brutal wars with us then illogical to not recognise Israel.

There is nothing to be gained from having an enemy and they are a country which won't go away, despite some Call of Duties fantasies from certain posters.

Whose we? You dont speak for the majority of Pakistani's? Pakistan has never recognised Israel, which data do you possess which suggests the majority of Pakistani's now want this to change? And you call others having fantasies lol.

 

[syed abbas]

We should offer them full recognition. We have recognised India, even though they have been raping Kashmiris for decades now. So if we can recognise a nation who has been doing that and who has also fought three brutal wars with us then illogical to not recognise Israel.

There is nothing to be gained from having an enemy and they are a country which won't go away, despite some Call of Duties fantasies from certain posters.

Recognizing Israel serves the national interest of Pakistan.But,sadly,this is not going to happen.The Mullah brigade will not let this happen.

 

[Pakpak]

Whose we? You dont speak for the majority of Pakistani's? Pakistan has never recognised Israel, which data do you possess which suggests the majority of Pakistani's now want this to change? And you call others having fantasies lol.

We as in my opinion.

We are all giving our opinions. Obviously I don't speak for all Pakistanis, and neither do you, a Brit who doesn't even live in Pakistan.

 

[Pakpak]

He is not doing any good to India by helping India to achieve high GDP rate only.The rising extremism in India is due to his policies and his patronage of Hindu extremist groups.He,unlike his predecessors,is trying his best to make India a country based on Hindu nationalist ideas.India,otherwise a secular democracy,is becoming what Germany was under Hitler.
And Modi is not bad for Pakistan.Modi's policy of isolating Pakistan has not worked.Infact,India has allied itself with America,which is against India's neutralist principle in foreign affairs.This has brought Russia,China and Iran more closer to Pakistan.

Pretty much.

I'd say in terms of Pakistan's standing, its never been as good since he has been incharge.

 

[Pakistanian]

I've noticed an increasing number of Indian Muslims getting less patriotic cause of the Modi regime.

 

[syed abbas]

Pretty much.

I'd say in terms of Pakistan's standing, its never been as good since he has been incharge.

His policies are good for Pakistan just like Musharraf's policies were(consciously or unconsciously) good for India.

 

[cricketjoshila]

There has been zero indication this man has a single compassionate bone in his body. He isn't known as the butcher of Gujrat for cutting beef steaks. His continued aggression against Kashmiri's has also shown he has no compassion side. Both leaders are the same and there is nothing great about oppressing those who are weaker than you. In history they will be known as nothing more than war criminals by any neutral party.

Who calls him butcher of gujarat?He has been exonerated by courts.Thats it.Modi or any other PM no one will allow terrorists and separatists to play havoc in Kashmir.


You dont write history.As many posters have pointed out your fantasies dont make the world.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I am not sure if it is a diplomatic suicide of sorts?it is a leap from a transactional relationship to a more strategic one which won't go well with many iran and several arab countries.iran by now has twice in a week referred to oppressed kashmiri people and put its judiciary in support of kashmir cause.this is also an opportunity for pakistan to put back its relations with Iran on track.one thing that is unique to both israel and india is their society's rabid hate concealed unconcealed for the muslim world.more of enemy's enemy is my friend.after pissing off russia which culminated with it forming strategic relations with pakistan,it may turn out to be another off goof up.

Do listen to Putin on what he has to say about India and Pakistan.There is no strategic Russia-Pak relation except that your ISPR wants to feed it.4 choppers and Russia is a Pak startegic ally.

Many Arab nations are themselves with Israel.

 

[English August]

He is not doing any good to India by helping India to achieve high GDP rate only.The rising extremism in India is due to his policies and his patronage of Hindu extremist groups.He,unlike his predecessors,is trying his best to make India a country based on Hindu nationalist ideas.India,otherwise a secular democracy,is becoming what Germany was under Hitler.
And Modi is not bad for Pakistan.Modi's policy of isolating Pakistan has not worked.Infact,India has allied itself with America,which is against India's neutralist principle in foreign affairs.This has brought Russia,China and Iran more closer to Pakistan.

Another ignorant Pakistani comparing Modi with Hitler! Yep, that too on the same day he's been wholeheartedly welcomed by Israel as part of the landmark visit. It makes a lot of sense, Jews welcoming a Hitler in their sacred homeland.

 

[English August]

I've noticed an increasing number of Indian Muslims getting less patriotic cause of the Modi regime.

Really? How many Indian Muslims do you know personally? There are 200M+ of them.

 

[Third_Umpire]

Good for Modi and India. Waiting for the day when Pakistan's leadership matures and starts talking to Israel. May be waiting for a while...

 

[Pakistanian]

Really? How many Indian Muslims do you know personally? There are 200M+ of them.

Well I know a lot of the ones that go to my school but they're the ones that were raised here so that could be a factor and a lot of them are kinda frustrated with the current Islamophobic regime in India.

 

[cricketjoshila]

He is not doing any good to India by helping India to achieve high GDP rate only.The rising extremism in India is due to his policies and his patronage of Hindu extremist groups.He,unlike his predecessors,is trying his best to make India a country based on Hindu nationalist ideas.India,otherwise a secular democracy,is becoming what Germany was under Hitler.
And Modi is not bad for Pakistan.Modi's policy of isolating Pakistan has not worked.Infact,India has allied itself with America,which is against India's neutralist principle in foreign affairs.This has brought Russia,China and Iran more closer to Pakistan.

1.What India is becoming is a decision of Indians.Thank you

2.Do you understand what is isolation?Its not no one not having relations with Pakistan.Its people choosing the Indian narrative over Pakistani one.As you may see hardly any country has come in support of Pakistan on their narrative on India and Kashmir.While several countries have named even sanctioned Pakistani organisations or citizens.

3.Except ISPR does anyone believe in the Russia-Pakistan alliance?Russia as we speak is in the process of supplying S 400 ABM systems and a nuclear sub to India.They just helped us increase the range of Brahmos to 450ks and will help increase it to 600ks.Nuclear reactors deal has bern signed.Many more in the pipeline.These are not ordinary weapon systems or run of mill fighter jets or ships.So 4 MI helicopters dont make Pak a ally of Russia.


4.India throughout cold war kept relations with NATO countries like UK France including buying weapons.USSR had no objections.Russia knows India will only go so much towards US.

 

[KingKhanWC]

We as in my opinion.

We are all giving our opinions. Obviously I don't speak for all Pakistanis, and neither do you, a Brit who doesn't even live in Pakistan.

I dont need to live there, I have dual nationality and investments, so have the same right as you.

Of course it was your opinion but what indications have you see which could make your opinion come to reaslisation?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Who calls him butcher of gujarat?He has been exonerated by courts.Thats it.Modi or any other PM no one will allow terrorists and separatists to play havoc in Kashmir.


You dont write history.As many posters have pointed out your fantasies dont make the world.

Tens of Millions of Muslims around the world label him as such. They don't care what a court in India claims in one of the most corrupt nations around.

Under Modi Hindu extremism has flourished.

 

[Pakpak]

I dont need to live there, I have dual nationality and investments, so have the same right as you.

Of course it was your opinion but what indications have you see which could make your opinion come to reaslisation?

If Pakistan can recognise India, a nation who has been responsible for thousands of our troops dying in 4 wars or thousands of civilians dying in proxy war or a nation who was responsible for breaking our country and a nation even now raping and killing Kashmiris, then absolutely no problem recognising Israel.

None at all. Their ''crimes'' pale in comparison to India in terms of direct damage to our nation.

My opinion won't come to realisation in my lifetime atleast. Hence why its called my opinion. Unless there is a seismic change geopolitics in the middle east.

 

[syed abbas]

Another ignorant Pakistani comparing Modi with Hitler! Yep, that too on the same day he's been wholeheartedly welcomed by Israel as part of the landmark visit. It makes a lot of sense, Jews welcoming a Hitler in their sacred homeland.

Is this author also an ignorant Pakistani?
https://www.dawn.com/news/1342813/we-are-the-mob-now

 

[Varun]

Interesting panel discussion showcasing the Israeli viewpoint:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ujh1q2zIt6w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Pakpak]

Is this author also an ignorant Pakistani?
https://www.dawn.com/news/1342813/we-are-the-mob-now

Or this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-40402021

 

[KingKhanWC]

If Pakistan can recognise India, a nation who has been responsible for thousands of our troops dying in 4 wars or thousands of civilians dying in proxy war or a nation who was responsible for breaking our country and a nation even now raping and killing Kashmiris, then absolutely no problem recognising Israel.

None at all. Their ''crimes'' pale in comparison to India in terms of direct damage to our nation.

My opinion won't come to realisation in my lifetime atleast. Hence why its called my opinion. Unless there is a seismic change geopolitics in the middle east.

India and Pakistan were created pretty much together, they are neighbours. It's strange to even think they wouldn't recognise each other. India's creation made sense and was not unethical as a whole.

Israel had no right to exist, it practices apartheid and has no links to Pakistan as India does. Daft comparison tbh.

I'm glad you agree your opinion is way off the mark.

 

[syed abbas]

1.What India is becoming is a decision of Indians.Thank you

2.Do you understand what is isolation?Its not no one not having relations with Pakistan.Its people choosing the Indian narrative over Pakistani one.As you may see hardly any country has come in support of Pakistan on their narrative on India and Kashmir.While several countries have named even sanctioned Pakistani organisations or citizens.

3.Except ISPR does anyone believe in the Russia-Pakistan alliance?Russia as we speak is in the process of supplying S 400 ABM systems and a nuclear sub to India.They just helped us increase the range of Brahmos to 450ks and will help increase it to 600ks.Nuclear reactors deal has bern signed.Many more in the pipeline.These are not ordinary weapon systems or run of mill fighter jets or ships.So 4 MI helicopters dont make Pak a ally of Russia.


4.India throughout cold war kept relations with NATO countries like UK France including buying weapons.USSR had no objections.Russia knows India will only go so much towards US.

1)India is becoming what ultra-right Hindus want.(Whether you agree or not does not matter.)
2)Isolation is not simply preferring one narrative over another narrative.USA does not support Pak's narrative on Kashmir but has accorded Pakistan major non-Nato ally status.And no country will isolate Pakistan for its Kashmir policy.
3)Pak's relation with Russia has greatly improved thanks to Modi's policy.Pak-Russia relation is not at its best but is is much better than it has been previously.
4)It is crystal clear that India no longer follows the neutralist principle.

 

[Pakpak]

India and Pakistan were created pretty much together, they are neighbours. It's strange to even think they wouldn't recognise each other. India's creation made sense and was not unethical as a whole.

Israel had no right to exist, it practices apartheid and has no links to Pakistan as India does. Daft comparison tbh.

I'm glad you agree your opinion is way off the mark.

Not a daft comparison really. Just because we were one nation doesn't excuse their killings, lot of nations were one nations but now live peacefully.

Your entire ranting on Israel is because of their atrocious human rights and hence your reasoning on why they shouldn't be recognised. Why should I single them out for isolation and instead not single out a nation for the same treatment who unlike the Israelis has killed tens of thousands of Pakistanis? And even are raping Kashmiris as we speak? Unlike you I have a consistent stance.

I didn't say my opinion was ''off-mark'', I said my opinion won't be realised soon because our nation is full of duplicitous hypocrites like you.

Either support one stance for everyone or don't.

 

[Yossarian]

Only a naive and a completely deluded person would think a nuclear power is simply going to vanish. They are a brutal and an occupying power but they aren't going anywhere. That's a fact, the quicker you accept it the better. All this ''history books, one day'' looks good and dramatic but it only does so on an internet forum but is far detached from reality. Nukes change everything. Hence the reason why India will never capture Pakistan nor will any country dare attack us like they did Iraq.

Whining about Israel is useless as nothing will happen to them. For them to be seriously affected the Arab states and the Americans would together to have boycott them. Even if everyone does, as long the US supports them nothing will happen. All these ban McDonalds or KFC nonsense is only a social media circus. Till the day they are backed by Uncle Sam nothing will happen to them. And their nukes ensure they will never be beaten militarily.

You forget about something called population growth. Israeli Arab population, percentage wise, is expanding at a faster rate than Israeli Jews - and that's including Jewish immigrants to Israel.

If Palestinians end up having an independent state alongside Israel it will only be a matter of time before it becomes fully independent (ie not under military control of Israel and forbidden from having it's own armed forces) and with a greater population that Israel itself- maybe it will take 50 years, or a 100 years, or 150 years ... but it will happen.

Alternatively, if there is no independent Palestinian state, then the status quo can not continue forever. The West Bank will eventually become part of Israel, meaning eventually the Arabs will outnumber the Jews in the expanded Israel. And the Israeli Jews could not forever give themselves greater rights than (eventually) the larger non-Jewish population. Meaning Israel as a Jewish state will be eventually transformed into one that is simply a state like any other.

Think long term, long long term. Think population growth. Think in terms of each and every sect and ethnicity demanding equal rights (may take 100+ years to achieve, but can't be ruled out).

Israel has existed for 70 years. It may exist for another 100 years, for 200 years more. But that's still a mere blink of the eye in the history of the Middle East. Greater empires have risen, lasted far longer, and then fallen, to be replaced by others even greater that lasted even longer, which also eventually fell.

It's like plate tectonics. Continents move. They move slowly. But they do move. Nothing remains the same.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Not a daft comparison really. Just because we were one nation doesn't excuse their killings, lot of nations were one nations but now live peacefully.

Your entire ranting on Israel is because of their atrocious human rights and hence your reasoning on why they shouldn't be recognised. Why should I single them out for isolation and instead not single out a nation for the same treatment who unlike the Israelis has killed tens of thousands of Pakistanis? And even are raping Kashmiris as we speak? Unlike you I have a consistent stance.

I didn't say my opinion was ''off-mark'', I said my opinion won't be realised soon because our nation is full of duplicitous hypocrites like you.

Either support one stance for everyone or don't.

lol. I've just given you the reasons why Israel is different but you choose to ignore them as you cant counter and instead say my entire reasoning is based on them killing.

Let's make it simple.

Israel was created for people(Jews) from all over the world to come and inhabit. India was created for the people already resident there. Do you get this basic difference?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I've noticed an increasing number of Indian Muslims getting less patriotic cause of the Modi regime.

Keep dreaming that.Ayub Khan tol dreamed the same.

 

[English August]

Or this:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-40402021

Oh, you can find dozens of articles written by left wing nutcases. You could have just googled Arundhati Roy's latest article and that could have done the trick as well. Yawn.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Tens of Millions of Muslims around the world label him as such. They don't care what a court in India claims in one of the most corrupt nations around.

Under Modi Hindu extremism has flourished.

In India we dont care what foreigners have to say.They can whine as much.Means nothing to us.

The likes of Saudi kings and UAE Kings honour him.They matter not some imaginary fantasies of yours.

 

[Pakpak]

lol. I've just given you the reasons why Israel is different but you choose to ignore them as you cant counter and instead say my entire reasoning is based on them killing.

Let's make it simple.

Israel was created for people(Jews) from all over the world to come and inhabit. India was created for the people already resident there. Do you get this basic difference?

Why are you making this about creation? Who cares really? What matters is now. Lot of nations were created via killings and via people taking someone else's land, Australia, NZ were made for the White Man and they had to wipe out their locals to be made for the White man yet they are nations today who by and large are non-bigoted. Are you going to hold them to the same standard you hold Israel just because their creation was bloody and brutal and racist?

Your entire view on Israel is because of the ridiculous and bigoted way they treat Palestinians. You say that enough. I mean the UK has killed millions of Muslims but you happily live there because its a tolerant society, so you'd been absolutely fine with Israel too had it been a free state which respected Muslims like the UK. Or are you saying if Israel was free today, with no oppression and a Muslim PM and free speech and guaranteed rights of Muslims you'd still complained about them?

No, right? Hence logic and common sense dictates the problem with them is because they kill innocent people. But the problem for hypocrites like you that the Israelis do kill people but they haven't killed a single Pakistani. Unlike our neighbours who not have killed thousands of Pakistanis but are continuing to via sneaky proxy wars and killing Kashmiris. Thus having a negative effect on my nation, hence directly affecting us living there. Yet you are okay with reconginsing them but not okay with recongising a nation who hasn't killed any Pakistanis.


Get the difference now?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Recognizing Israel serves the national interest of Pakistan.But,sadly,this is not going to happen.The Mullah brigade will not let this happen.

In what way would it serve Pakistan's purpose? What would Pakistan gain from it?

 

[Pakpak]

Oh, you can find dozens of articles written by left wing nutcases. You could have just googled Arundhati Roy's latest article and that could have done the trick as well. Yawn.

You said people with such views were ignorant Pakistanis. I was merely wondering if an ignorant Pakistani wrote that article too.

 

[KingKhanWC]

In India we dont care what foreigners have to say.They can whine as much.Means nothing to us.

The likes of Saudi kings and UAE Kings honour him.They matter not some imaginary fantasies of yours.

In India you don't seem to care about many things inc how women are treated so this is not surprising.

You do know this term has been used against Modi by many Indians too? Why are they using it?

 

[Mamoon]

Stop talking utter tripe - it was Mushraff that made the offer to make Kashmir an open acesss region so peace could be achieved once and for all. Vajpayee craped himself because he knew many in his own party would never accept such a deal.

And no it's utterly ridiculous to say Modi is a great leader - based on what exactly ??

History will judge him in a few years - and he's already stained himself before he became PM with the Gujarat massacre.

If you read my post without getting angry, you'd realize that what I'm trying to convey is not much different to what you are implying. Vajpayee - the weak leader that he was - was ready to settle for Mush's offer but he could not sanction it because of his cabinet.

Now imagine Nawaz calling Modi with a similar offer. What do you think his response will be?

History can judge him for the rising nationalism in India and the Muslim blood on his hands, but he is the leader Indian Hindus, i.e. roughly 80% of the population have been waiting for.

 

[English August]

4)It is crystal clear that India no longer follows the neutralist principle.

I think the world you're looking for is "non-aligned." It's true that India was the de facto leader of the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) in the 70s and 80s when our idiotic leaders like Indira Gandhi hobnobbed with despot, dictators and terrorists like Fidel Castro, Arafat, et. al. Thankfully that era is over. But India continues to be as neutral as anyone can be, and enjoys good relations with countries in opposing factions, as in:
- Western democracies vs. Russia
- Iran vs. SA
- Israel vs. Islamic countries
- England vs. Argentina

It's an admirable dance of diplomacy.

 

[syed abbas]

In what way would it serve Pakistan's purpose? What would Pakistan gain from it?

It can help Pak in many ways.It will counter India's isolating Pakistan policy.Israel can help us militarily.Israel may become neutral in Pak-India disputes.

 

[cricketjoshila]

1)India is becoming what ultra-right Hindus want.(Whether you agree or not does not matter.)
2)Isolation is not simply preferring one narrative over another narrative.USA does not support Pak's narrative on Kashmir but has accorded Pakistan major non-Nato ally status.And no country will isolate Pakistan for its Kashmir policy.
3)Pak's relation with Russia has greatly improved thanks to Modi's policy.Pak-Russia relation is not at its best but is is much better than it has been previously.
4)It is crystal clear that India no longer follows the neutralist principle.

1.Thats your opinion.Will not matter much on what Indians want or Indians do.Every country will become what its citizens want if vast majority are happy then thats it.Foreigners have no say in what another country should be like.

2.Pakistan is a major non nato.ally yet US refused you 7 F16s last year.Stopped 300mn of military assistance while they offer to shift entire F16 line to India.Pakistan wont find any support againist India from most countries thats isolation.

3.How its better?Because you got 4 MI 17s?Or because you did a military exercise?You know what will a S 400 or another Akula Sub do to the balance of power in Asia?

4.India follows the principal of national interest and right now every country wants to be friends with the fastest growing economy with a market of 1.25bn people.We will deal with everyone.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Why are you making this about creation? Who cares really? What matters is now. Lot of nations were created via killings and via people taking someone else's land, Australia, NZ were made for the White Man and they had to wipe out their locals to be made for the White man yet they are nations today who by and large are non-bigoted. Are you going to hold them to the same standard you hold Israel just because their creation was bloody and brutal and racist?

Creation matters as it's principle is still continuing to this day. ANY JEW FROM ANYWHERE can go and live in Palestine. Can any Hindu go and live in India if he/she has no ties to India?

Your entire view on Israel is because of the ridiculous and bigoted way they treat Palestinians. You say that enough. I mean the UK has killed millions of Muslims but you happily live there because its a tolerant society, so you'd been absolutely fine with Israel too had it been a free state which respected Muslims like the UK. Or are you saying if Israel was free today, with no oppression and a Muslim PM and free speech and guaranteed rights of Muslims you'd still complained about them?

Again another daft comparision. The UK isnt an active aparthied and occupational state to people who are living within its borders. Its not a state which allows any Christian to enter and live from anywhere in the world.

No, right? Hence logic and common sense dictates the problem with them is because they kill innocent people. But the problem for hypocrites like you that the Israelis do kill people but they haven't killed a single Pakistani. Unlike our neighbours who not have killed thousands of Pakistanis but are continuing to via sneaky proxy wars and killing Kashmiris. Thus having a negative effect on my nation, hence directly affecting us living there. Yet you are okay with reconginsing them but not okay with recongising a nation who hasn't killed any Pakistanis.


Get the difference now?

No you are very confused and lack basic knowledge. You are the one arguing from a patriotic Pakistani point of view , I am not. I am treating Palestine on its own merit. What India has done to Pakistan has no relevance to how Israel is treating Pakistanis.

My advice is stick to the points raised and try to answer them even though it may be difficult for you.

 

[Mamoon]

He is not doing any good to India by helping India to achieve high GDP rate only.The rising extremism in India is due to his policies and his patronage of Hindu extremist groups.He,unlike his predecessors,is trying his best to make India a country based on Hindu nationalist ideas.India,otherwise a secular democracy,is becoming what Germany was under Hitler.
And Modi is not bad for Pakistan.Modi's policy of isolating Pakistan has not worked.Infact,India has allied itself with America,which is against India's neutralist principle in foreign affairs.This has brought Russia,China and Iran more closer to Pakistan.

The rising extremism in India is an unfortunate side-effect of electing a terrorist, but you have to take the good with the bad. Generally speaking, a democratically elected, non-corrupt nationalist does more good than harm for the nation. While India's attempts to isolate Pakistan may not be successful, the success and progress of India does not entirely depend on the isolation of Pakistan. The popularity of Modi among Indian Hindus is no surprise at all when you put things into context.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It can help Pak in many ways.It will counter India's isolating Pakistan policy.Israel can help us militarily.Israel may become neutral in Pak-India disputes.

lol. Israel see all Muslim nations as a potential enemy esp A Muslim nation which has nuclear power.

 

[Mamoon]

There has been zero indication this man has a single compassionate bone in his body. He isn't known as the butcher of Gujrat for cutting beef steaks. His continued aggression against Kashmiri's has also shown he has no compassion side. Both leaders are the same and there is nothing great about oppressing those who are weaker than you. In history they will be known as nothing more than war criminals by any neutral party.

It is more important to be remembered favorably by your own people rather than what some Western writer with a chip on his shoulder thinks about you in 50 years time.

 

[English August]

In India you don't seem to care about many things inc how women are treated so this is not surprising.

You do know this term has been used against Modi by many Indians too? Why are they using it?

Yeah, some people, notably Sonia Gandhi, called him maut ka saudagar. Others have called him worse. But it is precisely these kind of statements (and several others that the other poster has been posting links to) that disprove your point. In a true democracy, you can get away with calling the PM maut kaa saudagar and other things. You can keep writing tripe, falsehoods, etc. If India was indeed moving towards undemocratic majoritarianism as some of you have been claiming, wouldn't all these people be in jail by now?

So why do I see Barkha Dutts, Sagarika Ghose, Nidhi Razdan, Rajdeep Sardesais and Arundhati Rais of the world spread their falsehoods everyday and never get arrested?

 

[Pakistanian]

Keep dreaming that.Ayub Khan tol dreamed the same.

lol why do you always sound so triggered, chill out.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It can help Pak in many ways.It will counter India's isolating Pakistan policy.Israel can help us militarily.Israel may become neutral in Pak-India disputes.

None of those are likely to happen.

 

[Varun]

It can help Pak in many ways.It will counter India's isolating Pakistan policy.Israel can help us militarily.Israel may become neutral in Pak-India disputes.

Not to mention that Israel has pretty bustling relations with China. When you add a future - friendly Pakistan into the mix, it might just tip the scales away from India.

Stranger things have happened in world geo-politics.

 

[Pakpak]

Creation matters as it's principle is still continuing to this day. ANY JEW FROM ANYWHERE can go and live in Palestine. Can any Hindu go and live in India if he/she has no ties to India?



Again another daft comparision. The UK isnt an active aparthied and occupational state to people who are living within its borders. Its not a state which allows any Christian to enter and live from anywhere in the world.



No you are very confused and lack basic knowledge. You are the one arguing from a patriotic Pakistani point of view , I am not. I am treating Palestine on its own merit. What India has done to Pakistan has no relevance to how Israel is treating Pakistanis.

My advice is stick to the points raised and try to answer them even though it may be difficult for you.

You're just making my points for me.

You're saying what I am saying, that the reason for all your agrro with Israel is because of its behavior TODAY ie it allowing still migration for Jews TODAY and it killing Palestinians till TODAY. Had its behavior been different TODAY then you'd had no problem with them, just like you don't have no problem with countries who's creation was even more brutal than Israel (ie Australia) but their behavior TODAY is excellent. Hence if Israel's behavior TODAY makes them ineligible for recognition by Pakistan, even though they have no killed any of us, then India's behavior TODAY makes them ten times more ineligible for any sort of diplomatic contact because of their continuing activities against Pakistan and their brutalising of Kashmiris.

I advocate the same treatment for all brutal countries oppressing their people. Either recognise them all or recognise neither. I am sticking to the points, you're simply trying to weasel your way out of the massive hypocrisy you continue to shamelessly display by mentioning ''merit''.

 

[syed abbas]

The rising extremism in India is an unfortunate side-effect of electing a terrorist, but you have to take the good with the bad. Generally speaking, a democratically elected, non-corrupt nationalist does more good than harm for the nation. While India's attempts to isolate Pakistan may not be successful, the success and progress of India does not entirely depend on the isolation of Pakistan. The popularity of Modi among Indian Hindus is no surprise at all when you put things into context.

If Modi is a terrorist,then how can he be a great leader?
And being popular alone does not make a leader great.If it were so,Imran Khan would have been a great leader of Pak.(which he is not).
And Modi is popular in India,not for his successful policies,but for his anti-Pakistan views and his support for Hindu right wing parties in establishing a model Hindu state.

 

[syed abbas]

lol. Israel see all Muslim nations as a potential enemy esp A Muslim nation which has nuclear power.

Typical siege-mentality.

 

[syed abbas]

Not to mention that Israel has pretty bustling relations with China. When you add a future - friendly Pakistan into the mix, it might just tip the scales away from India.

Stranger things have happened in world geo-politics.

These trends have become new-normal.

 

[English August]

It is more important to be remembered favorably by your own people rather than what some Western writer with a chip on his shoulder thinks about you in 50 years time.

I'd actually go a step further and say that improving the lives 1.25 billion people is more noble than what what anyone thinks of you. If he was able to move even 10-15% of these people from poverty to middle-class status, that would be a huge achievement. Who care what people call you (especially when they're wrong) -- maut kaa saudagar or butcher of Gujarat or whatever?

He's been focussed on bringing about transformational change and basically ignoring what people say. He won the election fair and square, and that gives him 5 years to push his agenda. If anything, I'd blame him for not moving fast enough.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I'd actually go a step further and say that improving the lives 1.25 billion people is more noble than what what anyone thinks of you. If he was able to move even 10-15% of these people from poverty to middle-class status, that would be a huge achievement. Who care what people call you (especially when they're wrong) -- maut kaa saudagar or butcher of Gujarat or whatever?

He's been focussed on bringing about transformational change and basically ignoring what people say. He won the election fair and square, and that gives him 5 years to push his agenda. If anything, I'd blame him for not moving fast enough.

It would be pretty hard for him to move the country forward 10-15% when his political background is mired in Hindutva ideology in my opinion, but you may view differently.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You're just making my points for me.

You're saying what I am saying, that the reason for all your agrro with Israel is because of its behavior TODAY ie it allowing still migration for Jews TODAY and it killing Palestinians till TODAY. Had its behavior been different TODAY then you'd had no problem with them, just like you don't have no problem with countries who's creation was even more brutal than Israel (ie Australia) but their behavior TODAY is excellent. Hence if Israel's behavior TODAY makes them ineligible for recognition by Pakistan, even though they have no killed any of us, then India's behavior TODAY makes them ten times more ineligible for any sort of diplomatic contact because of their continuing activities against Pakistan and their brutalising of Kashmiris.

I advocate the same treatment for all brutal countries oppressing their people. Either recognise them all or recognise neither. I am sticking to the points, you're simply trying to weasel your way out of the massive hypocrisy you continue to shamelessly display by mentioning ''merit''.

What you're failing to understand is the behavior TODAY is not the same as India's behavior TODAY. You didn't refute the main point, Israel allows Jews from all over the world to enter and steal land. You also fail to respond to the point, Pakistan's relation to India has little to do with Israel's relation to Pakistan. I wont repeat the points again, it's for you to work out.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yeah, some people, notably Sonia Gandhi, called him maut ka saudagar. Others have called him worse. But it is precisely these kind of statements (and several others that the other poster has been posting links to) that disprove your point. In a true democracy, you can get away with calling the PM maut kaa saudagar and other things. You can keep writing tripe, falsehoods, etc. If India was indeed moving towards undemocratic majoritarianism as some of you have been claiming, wouldn't all these people be in jail by now?

So why do I see Barkha Dutts, Sagarika Ghose, Nidhi Razdan, Rajdeep Sardesais and Arundhati Rais of the world spread their falsehoods everyday and never get arrested?

My point was simply he is known by such terms all around the world including in India, so thanks for agreeing.

Whether it's because India's a democracy or isn't , has no relevance to my point.

His image is maligned everywhere, only a BJP apologist and defender as we have on here will try to say otherwise.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Typical siege-mentality.

Care to expand? Tell me where Israel wants to be friends with Pakistan and how this friendship will make it neutral against India. Show some evidence to support this.

 

[syed abbas]

1.Thats your opinion.Will not matter much on what Indians want or Indians do.Every country will become what its citizens want if vast majority are happy then thats it.Foreigners have no say in what another country should be like.

2.Pakistan is a major non nato.ally yet US refused you 7 F16s last year.Stopped 300mn of military assistance while they offer to shift entire F16 line to India.Pakistan wont find any support againist India from most countries thats isolation.

3.How its better?Because you got 4 MI 17s?Or because you did a military exercise?You know what will a S 400 or another Akula Sub do to the balance of power in Asia?

4.India follows the principal of national interest and right now every country wants to be friends with the fastest growing economy with a market of 1.25bn people.We will deal with everyone.

2)USA refused but that refusal was not due to Pak's Kashmir policy or India's efforts.USA refused due to Pak's Afghan policy.

 

[English August]

It would be pretty hard for him to move the country forward 10-15% when his political background is mired in Hindutva ideology in my opinion, but you may view differently.

This is where his critics have it completely backwards. He's been the PM for three years now, which is long enough to judge an elected leader. During this time, he's basically not pushed a single Hindutva agenda. There is no talk of building a glorious Ram Mandir in Ayodhya. There is no talk of waging a war against Pakistan (basically there is no talk of Pakistan as all, after the initial unsuccessful flirtations with Sharif, he's basically put the entire Pak agenda on the backburner). So what has been he focussing on: running a more efficient administration at all levels, pushing the industrialization and investment agenda, rural electrification, tax reforms and creating the world's single largest unified market, etc. As I said, people are losing patience even with this (e.g., not enough new jobs are being created).

So all these people who accuse him of pushing the Hindutva ideology -- I have no idea what they're talking about. All this controversy about beef etc. is just a distraction.