Narendra Modi Makes First Visit to Israel by Indian PM, Ignores Palestine

[KingKhanWC]

It is more important to be remembered favorably by your own people rather than what some Western writer with a chip on his shoulder thinks about you in 50 years time.

Are you one of his people? If not then why proudly call him a great leader as by your own admission your view is not important.

Of course the Hindu extremists love him but do you have any data to suggest the Muslims in India see him favorably too.

You are quick to call out extremists but here are claiming Modi is great. Do you believe Modi and Nethanyahu are religious extremists?

 

[syed abbas]

Care to expand? Tell me where Israel wants to be friends with Pakistan and how this friendship will make it neutral against India. Show some evidence to support this.

We,Pakistanis,love to think that Israel is scared of Pakistan for it is the only Muslim nuclear power and hence they want to destroy us by collaborating with the Indians.However,this is not reality.
It is obvious that Israel will not be working against Pakistan if our government recognizes Israel.Egypt recognized Israel and they have helped Egypt in many ways.

 

[Pakpak]

What you're failing to understand is the behavior TODAY is not the same as India's behavior TODAY. You didn't refute the main point, Israel allows Jews from all over the world to enter and steal land. You also fail to respond to the point, Pakistan's relation to India has little to do with Israel's relation to Pakistan. I wont repeat the points again, it's for you to work out.

Since the chain of conversation is about Pakistan recognising Israel.

Israel's behavior today is not hurting Pakistan.
India's behavior today is not only hurting Pakistan but it has helped murder Pakistanis on a regular basis and it actively works to isolate Pakistan and damage Pakistan as bad as it can.

Hence it makes no sense for Pakistan to keep diplomatic relations with India but say no to recognising a nation who has not and is not killing/isolating/trying to bully/murder Kashmiris who want to join us.

Its a simple thing, but either you're being deliberately stubborn or being dense. You're not a dumb person so I dout you're being dense, you;re a fairly clever guy and whom I respect for never wavering from his views, so I am surprised you're not getting my point.

 

[Mamoon]

Are you one of his people? If not then why proudly call him a great leader as by your own admission your view is not important.

Of course the Hindu extremists love him but do you have any data to suggest the Muslims in India see him favorably too.

You are quick to call out extremists but here are claiming Modi is great. Do you believe Modi and Nethanyahu are religious extremists?

I believe that leaders should be judged by the perspective of the people who are being led, and he is a Hindu Nationalist who is leading a country of 80% Hindu population. I, you are anyone else may think of him as a terrorist who should have been hanged for his crimes, but our views do not matter. All that matters is that the majority in his own country look up to him and that is why I find it appropriate to consider him a great leader.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

I believe that leaders should be judged by the perspective of the people who are being led, and he is a Hindu Nationalist who is leading a country of 80% Hindu population. I, you are anyone else may think of him as a terrorist who should have been hanged for his crimes, but our views do not matter. All that matters is that the majority in his own country look up to him and that is why I find it appropriate to consider him a great leader.

Surely by this standard Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi should be considered? He's led his 'people' from nothing and gave them international recognition. Our views don't matter. Also why not Kim Jong Un? Ask any North Korean about him and I dare you to find them declare a bad word about him publicly.

 

[Mamoon]

Surely by this standard Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi should be considered? He's led his 'people' from nothing and gave them international recognition. Our views don't matter. Also why not Kim Jong Un? Ask any North Korean about him and I dare you to find them declare a bad word about him publicly.

Kim Jong is a tyrant, he wasn't democratically elected like Modi.

And yes, from ISIS' perspective, Abu Bakr is certainly a great leader. However, that's a very extreme example. Let's not compare a terrorist organization to the biggest democracy in the world, and Modi has blood on his hands but at the end of the day, he is a PM not a leader of a terrorist group.

 

[cricketjoshila]

lol why do you always sound so triggered, chill out.

I have a problem anyone calling Indian muslims unpatriotic without any reason.I have grown up with muslim classmates whose fathers have been martyred for this country.

 

[KingKhanWC]

We,Pakistanis,love to think that Israel is scared of Pakistan for it is the only Muslim nuclear power and hence they want to destroy us by collaborating with the Indians.However,this is not reality.
It is obvious that Israel will not be working against Pakistan if our government recognizes Israel.Egypt recognized Israel and they have helped Egypt in many ways.

So according to you if Pakistan was to recognise Israel they would then severe close ties with India and be neutral. This is your opinion based on zero evidence.

 

[Varun]

We,Pakistanis,love to think that Israel is scared of Pakistan for it is the only Muslim nuclear power and hence they want to destroy us by collaborating with the Indians.However,this is not reality.
It is obvious that Israel will not be working against Pakistan if our government recognizes Israel.Egypt recognized Israel and they have helped Egypt in many ways.

That, and what has Palestine ever given Pakistan? Any troops to fight the Taliban? Any blankets or goods during an earthquake or a flood? A natural resource supply to satiate Pakistan's import list?

Thought so. If anything, Pakistan are in a prime position to play both sides of many regional conflicts: Israel vs Palestine, Saudi vs Israel, Saudi vs Iran, Saudi/UAE vs Yemen, Saudi/UAE vs Qatar, USA vs Russia, etc. Yet they play dumb and choose to go to bed exclusively with Saudi Arabia. Crafting an alliance with an open sewer line would have been more beneficial than the muck KSA has propagated into Pakistan over the decades gone by.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If Modi is a terrorist,then how can he be a great leader?
And being popular alone does not make a leader great.If it were so,Imran Khan would have been a great leader of Pak.(which he is not).
And Modi is popular in India,not for his successful policies,but for his anti-Pakistan views and his support for Hindu right wing parties in establishing a model Hindu state.

Its funny how a Pakistani thinks he knows what an Indian PM has done in his country.Let Indians make that judgement.You have no idea.

 

[cricketjoshila]

In India you don't seem to care about many things inc how women are treated so this is not surprising.

You do know this term has been used against Modi by many Indians too? Why are they using it?

1.Again you opinion on India is of little consequence.


2.Free nation freedom of speech.The futility of those accusation was proved in the court.

 

[Pakpak]

Its funny how a Pakistani thinks he knows what an Indian PM has done in his country.Let Indians make that judgement.You have no idea.

Kind of like how Indians wind us everyday here praising Nawaz.

 

[cricketjoshila]

2)USA refused but that refusal was not due to Pak's Kashmir policy or India's efforts.USA refused due to Pak's Afghan policy.

Your own news reports will tell you the role of the Indian lobby at capitol

 

[KingKhanWC]

Since the chain of conversation is about Pakistan recognising Israel.

Israel's behavior today is not hurting Pakistan.

The whole thread and the meeting with Modi is proof Israel is intent in hurting Pakistan. The War on Terror was for the protection of Israel and drone strikes and destablistion of Pakistan is in Israels interest too.

ndia's behavior today is not only hurting Pakistan but it has helped murder Pakistanis on a regular basis and it actively works to isolate Pakistan and damage Pakistan as bad as it can.

Hence it makes no sense for Pakistan to keep diplomatic relations with India but say no to recognising a nation who has not and is not killing/isolating/trying to bully/murder Kashmiris who want to join us.

Its a simple thing, but either you're being deliberately stubborn or being dense. You're not a dumb person so I dout you're being dense, you;re a fairly clever guy and whom I respect for never wavering from his views, so I am surprised you're not getting my point.

I understand your point but I just don't agree with it. Both are different situations and both have different stargetic benefits and negatives for Pakistan. It's not only about killing but principles of creation and most importantly the geographic. Pakistan had to recognise India, they have joint borders. Israel is another kettle of fish. Besides many nations dont recognise Israel, how many don't recoginse India?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I believe that leaders should be judged by the perspective of the people who are being led, and he is a Hindu Nationalist who is leading a country of 80% Hindu population. I, you are anyone else may think of him as a terrorist who should have been hanged for his crimes, but our views do not matter. All that matters is that the majority in his own country look up to him and that is why I find it appropriate to consider him a great leader.

So if an extremist Muslim took power of Pakistan and the majority agreed with him, you'd call him a great leader too? So you're only consideration for being a great leader is one whose population likes him. Well Hitler was a great leader too? It doesn't matter what he done to the Jews or how his fascism caused wars killing millions? Well what I can say about your version of great if this is it.

 

[KingKhanWC]

1.Again you opinion on India is of little consequence.


2.Free nation freedom of speech.The futility of those accusation was proved in the court.

You ignored my point and instead are repeating yourself.

I ask again, simplifying it.

Why are so many Indians also labeling him as such then? Does their opinion not matter either? lol

 

[Pakpak]

The whole thread and the meeting with Modi is proof Israel is intent in hurting Pakistan. The War on Terror was for the protection of Israel and drone strikes and destablistion of Pakistan is in Israels interest too.



I understand your point but I just don't agree with it. Both are different situations and both have different stargetic benefits and negatives for Pakistan. It's not only about killing but principles of creation and most importantly the geographic. Pakistan had to recognise India, they have joint borders. Israel is another kettle of fish. Besides many nations dont recognise Israel, how many don't recoginse India?

Countries play geo-political games, who doesn't? Pakistan had been sending pilots to fight Israelis long before they turned their eye on us. Playing games is different to the active killing of Pakistanis.

I don't care which other country doesn't or does recognise Israel or India. I only care about mine. I don't believe we should have any contact with India diplomatically, I mean short of not recognising us they pretty much follow that nowadays. But since we have then in my eyes we should extend that to Israel too.

We won't agree so agree to disagree.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Are you one of his people? If not then why proudly call him a great leader as by your own admission your view is not important.

Of course the Hindu extremists love him but do you have any data to suggest the Muslims in India see him favorably too.

You are quick to call out extremists but here are claiming Modi is great. Do you believe Modi and Nethanyahu are religious extremists?

Last elections proved that Shias Ahmadiyyas are firmly behind Modi.He also has significant support among muslim woman.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I believe that leaders should be judged by the perspective of the people who are being led, and he is a Hindu Nationalist who is leading a country of 80% Hindu population. I, you are anyone else may think of him as a terrorist who should have been hanged for his crimes, but our views do not matter. All that matters is that the majority in his own country look up to him and that is why I find it appropriate to consider him a great leader.

A leader is a leader of his own people not the leader of his rivals.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Kind of like how Indians wind us everyday here praising Nawaz.

They are stupid then.Whether Nawaz is good or bad for Pakistan is a decision to be made by Pakistanis only.

 

[cricketjoshila]

You ignored my point and instead are repeating yourself.

I ask again, simplifying it.

Why are so many Indians also labeling him as such then? Does their opinion not matter either? lol

Most of those accusations came before the court verdict.Rest few during election campaigns.The futility of it was proven both in the courts and ballot boxes.Hardly anyone makes such comments now.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Most of those accusations came before the court verdict.Rest few during election campaigns.The futility of it was proven both in the courts and ballot boxes.Hardly anyone makes such comments now.

There are still people in India making such comments.

It may have died down as to anyone who speaks against him will be punished. Wasnt there a young man who was arrested for anti modi comments he made online?

 

[Pakpak]

Most of those accusations came before the court verdict.Rest few during election campaigns.The futility of it was proven both in the courts and ballot boxes.Hardly anyone makes such comments now.

I don't subscribe to the theory ''Modi supporters hate Muslims'' as I had a very good Indian friend, a die-hard Modi fan but hated Islamophobia. But surely you must agree the right-wing rhetoric under his PMship has ballooned.

 

[English August]

Kim Jong is a tyrant, he wasn't democratically elected like Modi.

And yes, from ISIS' perspective, Abu Bakr is certainly a great leader. However, that's a very extreme example. Let's not compare a terrorist organization to the biggest democracy in the world, and Modi has blood on his hands but at the end of the day, he is a PM not a leader of a terrorist group.

There are 900M registered voters in India. Of which 60% voted in the election in 2014, so that's 540M. BJP received roughly 35% votes (and Modi was the pre-declared leader of the party and the candidate for PM), which means 180M people directly voted for him.

Let that sync in for a moment.

That makes him *** the most voted person in the world today *** -- well ahead of these Johnies-come-lately like Obama, Trump, Trudeau, Macron, May etc. (he's ahead of them all combined!). Perhaps only Rajiv Gandhi in 1984 election polled more votes than him.

This is the power of democracy.

And this other guy wants to compare him with the North Korean tinpot dictator and the head of a terrorist organization! How much hatred one must have in one's heart to reach that conclusion?!

 

[English August]

There are still people in India making such comments.

It may have died down as to anyone who speaks against him will be punished. Wasnt there a young man who was arrested for anti modi comments he made online?

LOL. "Wasn't there a young man ..." What a statement! Surely even the Mahatma Gandhi must have hurt someone in his life, so that makes him a devil himself?! Do you guys have any sense of proportion?

I made this point elsewhere. If there is so much fear of his critics getting punished, why isn't Arundhati Roy behind bars? She basically rants against Modi pretty much every day. There are 100s of journalists, news reporters, left wing nutcases whose whole purpose in life is to oppose Modi. How come they are roaming about freely?

Do you guys have any idea what goes on in India?

 

[akki]

LOL. "Wasn't there a young man ..." What a statement! Surely even the Mahatma Gandhi must have hurt someone in his life, so that makes him a devil himself?! Do you guys have any sense of proportion?

I made this point elsewhere. If there is so much fear of his critics getting punished, why isn't Arundhati Roy behind bars? She basically rants against Modi pretty much every day. There are 100s of journalists, news reporters, left wing nutcases whose whole purpose in life is to oppose Modi. How come they are roaming about freely?

Do you guys have any idea what goes on in India?

They live in that islamic nation where even minority gets right to breathe after allthe humilation and forced conversions then its big deal for them and here they teach india which have almost 3 largest religions in the world with almost largest population such as hinduism , sikhism, islam. They dnt lnow about india
. Even today a small news of muslim man and hindu women were denied a room in banglore and its making news all over the media. So india never put these things under the carpet. And no one is afraid of modi in india. Infact poverty, clean india , jobs should get alot more coverage which they dnt get in media.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Kim Jong is a tyrant, he wasn't democratically elected like Modi.

And yes, from ISIS' perspective, Abu Bakr is certainly a great leader. However, that's a very extreme example. Let's not compare a terrorist organization to the biggest democracy in the world, and Modi has blood on his hands but at the end of the day, he is a PM not a leader of a terrorist group.

"All that matters is that the majority in his own country look up to him and that is why I find it appropriate to consider him a great leader." I didn't see any reference to democracy there and for terrorism allegations you mentioned "..., you are(sic) anyone else may think of him as a terrorist who should have been hanged for his crimes, but our views do not matter." More U-turns than the Maybot herself.

 

[KingKhanWC]

LOL. "Wasn't there a young man ..." What a statement! Surely even the Mahatma Gandhi must have hurt someone in his life, so that makes him a devil himself?! Do you guys have any sense of proportion?

I made this point elsewhere. If there is so much fear of his critics getting punished, why isn't Arundhati Roy behind bars? She basically rants against Modi pretty much every day. There are 100s of journalists, news reporters, left wing nutcases whose whole purpose in life is to oppose Modi. How come they are roaming about freely?

Do you guys have any idea what goes on in India?

You seem like a frustrated Hindutva supporter. I was reffering to an actual news story where a young man was arrested for speaking out against Modi. Maybe it's because he was a Muslim and gained a lot of attention? Who knows the minds of such right wing extremists, they do defy logic most of the times. You can google the story.

Well Joshila bhai who is on the same wavelength as you believes nobody hardly speaks against Modi in such defamatory terms. You should explain to him not me.

Whats your view? Does Modi and his Hindutva BJP party believe they are somehow going to bring back the golden age of Hindu empire by oppressing Kashmiri's, ranting about Pakistan and banning beef?

 

[KingKhanWC]

They live in that islamic nation where even minority gets right to breathe after allthe humilation and forced conversions then its big deal for them and here they teach india which have almost 3 largest religions in the world with almost largest population such as hinduism , sikhism, islam. They dnt lnow about india
. Even today a small news of muslim man and hindu women were denied a room in banglore and its making news all over the media. So india never put these things under the carpet. And no one is afraid of modi in india. Infact poverty, clean india , jobs should get alot more coverage which they dnt get in media.

I live in England.

 

[Third_Umpire]

The whole thread and the meeting with Modi is proof Israel is intent in hurting Pakistan. The War on Terror was for the protection of Israel and drone strikes and destablistion of Pakistan is in Israels interest too.



I understand your point but I just don't agree with it. Both are different situations and both have different stargetic benefits and negatives for Pakistan. It's not only about killing but principles of creation and most importantly the geographic. Pakistan had to recognise India, they have joint borders. Israel is another kettle of fish. Besides many nations dont recognise Israel, how many don't recoginse India?

I seriously doubt Israel is spending even a minute thinking about Pakistan! Why would they? We post no threat to them, nor do they to us. India of course thinks about Pakistan, but it's nonsensical to think that is the reason why Israel is meeting with India. There are probably many business and military deals to be made between the two countries.

How are the drone strikes in Pakistan of interest to Israel??

Instead of cooking up theories, why not just come out and say the only reason you are opposed to Israel is due to your perspective of their injustices against Muslims? That alone may be a point worth standing on for some, but to drag Pakistan into the argument and make it about Pakistan's interest is not fooling anyone.

It is in Pakistan's interest to recognize Israel and work with them.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Can someone explain which weapons Modi bought and how much they cost him? It can be argued that these are useless unless they protect India from a nuclear strike and another war with China. Waste of money when you have more people dying from hunger in India than in any other part of the world.

 

[English August]

You seem like a frustrated Hindutva supporter. I was reffering to an actual news story where a young man was arrested for speaking out against Modi. Maybe it's because he was a Muslim and gained a lot of attention? Who knows the minds of such right wing extremists, they do defy logic most of the times. You can google the story.

Well Joshila bhai who is on the same wavelength as you believes nobody hardly speaks against Modi in such defamatory terms. You should explain to him not me.

Whats your view? Does Modi and his Hindutva BJP party believe they are somehow going to bring back the golden age of Hindu empire by oppressing Kashmiri's, ranting about Pakistan and banning beef?

You missed the point of my post completely, and have now resorted to name-calling. But that's okay, it happens.

My views are pretty clear. Modi is only interested in improving the lives of all Indians (repeat ALL Indians, not just Hindus). There is no oppression going on in Kashmir. What's going on is terrorism and killing of innocent people (both security personnel and civilians) by the terrorists. To the best of my knowledge, there is no ranting against Pakistan. As I said elsewhere, Modi has completely dropped the subject after his initial flirtation with Sharif when he realized that Sharif can't even buy a pyjama for himself without permission from the Pakistani deep state leave alone decide on Pak's India policy. And the beef controversy is a pure distraction.

Anything else I can help you with?

 

[KingKhanWC]

I seriously doubt Israel is spending even a minute thinking about Pakistan! Why would they? We post no threat to them, nor do they to us. India of course thinks about Pakistan, but it's nonsensical to think that is the reason why Israel is meeting with India. There are probably many business and military deals to be made between the two countries.

How are the drone strikes in Pakistan of interest to Israel??

Instead of cooking up theories, why not just come out and say the only reason you are opposed to Israel is due to your perspective of their injustices against Muslims? That alone may be a point worth standing on for some, but to drag Pakistan into the argument and make it about Pakistan's interest is not fooling anyone.

It is in Pakistan's interest to recognize Israel and work with them.

I suggest if you try to read world news , your doubts would be non existant.

Mark Sofer, Deputy Director General of the Israeli Foreign Ministry’s Asia-Pacific department made a statement basically saying Israel and India have a common fight against terrorism and supports India policy against Pakistan. It is one of the reasons why they are meeting as Israel will provide even more sophisticated weapons to India to use against Pakistan.

Drone strikes are part of the war on terror which was part of securing Israel. It's not hard to understand why Israel wouldn't want an Muslim nation to have nukes, which in the past it has tried to stop from coming into existance and disturbing.

These are facts, perhaps you need to upgrade your level of knowledge instead of calling information theories just because you have no clue.

 

[akki]

Can someone explain which weapons Modi bought and how much they cost him? It can be argued that these are useless unless they protect India from a nuclear strike and another war with China. Waste of money when you have more people dying from hunger in India than in any other part of the world.

Its not useless when history suggests invasion of india and killing of millions of people and forced conversions of many hindus willingly or unwillingly ,which later on created another country. So india has to defend if not by learning from her history.China threat is also always on india.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Its not useless when history suggests invasion of india and killing of millions of people and forced conversions of many hindus willingly or unwillingly ,which later on created another country. So india has to defend if not by learning from her history.China threat is also always on india.

Which is why I asked which weapons will prevent invasion from China or nuclear strike, because India is already at a stalemate with Pakistan with regards to invading each others' countries. China didn't invade India beyond Aksai Chin, it could easily have done so and gained control of more territory. Which border disputes beyond Aksai Chin does India have?

 

[KingKhanWC]

You missed the point of my post completely, and have now resorted to name-calling. But that's okay, it happens.

My views are pretty clear. Modi is only interested in improving the lives of all Indians (repeat ALL Indians, not just Hindus). There is no oppression going on in Kashmir. What's going on is terrorism and killing of innocent people (both security personnel and civilians) by the terrorists. To the best of my knowledge, there is no ranting against Pakistan. As I said elsewhere, Modi has completely dropped the subject after his initial flirtation with Sharif when he realized that Sharif can't even buy a pyjama for himself without permission from the Pakistani deep state leave alone decide on Pak's India policy. And the beef controversy is a pure distraction.

Anything else I can help you with?

No thanks, it's clear you have no clue what you are talking about.

But let's see if you can back up what you have written here.

1. If Modi is for all people and India is secular why has beef bans appeared under his watch?

2. Why are organistions such as HRW and Amnesty calling on India to investigate killings, torture and other human rights abuses in Kashmir if there is NO oppression?

Why are basic liberties being taken away such as internet usage?

3. Did Modi not make rants against Pakistan when he was in America recently?

 

[English August]

No thanks, it's clear you have no clue what you are talking about.

But let's see if you can back up what you have written here.

1. If Modi is for all people and India is secular why has beef bans appeared under his watch?

2. Why are organistions such as HRW and Amnesty calling on India to investigate killings, torture and other human rights abuses in Kashmir if there is NO oppression?

Why are basic liberties being taken away such as internet usage?

3. Did Modi not make rants against Pakistan when he was in America recently?

1. Beef ban didn't start under his watch. Started long ago, well before Modi even entered public life (leave alone becoming PM). It's a state subject, not a federal one. Guess which state started in first: Muslim-majority J&K! Successive Congress-ruled states have implemented this ban in different states.

2. HRW and AI have zero credibility when it comes to human rights. These bodies are funded by bodies with specific political agenda. The world's largest democracy needs no certificate from these random organizations. What exactly is their locus standi? And why should India care? India has full right to implement its anti-terror law to protect its citizen against violent actions.

3. See above. If (some) people indulge unlawful activities, the State has every right to do what needs to do to protect the citizens. Internet connectivity is disrupted only in one state and not elsewhere. Why? Because there is active terrorism going on in that state. If people of that state start behaving themselves, they can have as much internet as they want!

What else?

 

[akki]

No thanks, it's clear you have no clue what you are talking about.

But let's see if you can back up what you have written here.

1. If Modi is for all people and India is secular why has beef bans appeared under his watch?

2. Why are organistions such as HRW and Amnesty calling on India to investigate killings, torture and other human rights abuses in Kashmir if there is NO oppression?

Why are basic liberties being taken away such as internet usage?

3. Did Modi not make rants against Pakistan when he was in America recently?

We should make a thread of beef killing and attacks figure in india in past 5 years. Have heard it alot about this in india itself. In 125 crore population i would love to see the figure. Media and politicians are doing like as there are only this thing happening in the country .
Problem is not beef,problem is implementation of laws, Which in many cases are not upto the mark.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

You missed the point of my post completely, and have now resorted to name-calling. But that's okay, it happens.

My views are pretty clear. Modi is only interested in improving the lives of all Indians (repeat ALL Indians, not just Hindus). There is no oppression going on in Kashmir. What's going on is terrorism and killing of innocent people (both security personnel and civilians) by the terrorists. To the best of my knowledge, there is no ranting against Pakistan. As I said elsewhere, Modi has completely dropped the subject after his initial flirtation with Sharif when he realized that Sharif can't even buy a pyjama for himself without permission from the Pakistani deep state leave alone decide on Pak's India policy. And the beef controversy is a pure distraction.

Anything else I can help you with?

Had to laugh at this. You live in the US, know that there's no anti-Pakistan 'ranting', that Kashmiris are terrorists and Pakistan has a deep state?

I'd try to explain these issues to you, but the Indian economy is great and nothing else should matter.

 

[KingKhanWC]

1. Beef ban didn't start under his watch. Started long ago, well before Modi even entered public life (leave alone becoming PM). It's a state subject, not a federal one. Guess which state started in first: Muslim-majority J&K! Successive Congress-ruled states have implemented this ban in different states.

Under Modi the ban has taken a new lease of life. Just recently a new law was passed which included even Camels cant be slaughtered unless you are a farmer. Dont pretend this is the same as before his term in office.

2. HRW and AI have zero credibility when it comes to human rights. These bodies are funded by bodies with specific political agenda. The world's largest democracy needs no certificate from these random organizations. What exactly is their locus standi? And why should India care? India has full right to implement its anti-terror law to protect its citizen against violent actions.

It's not just human rights organstions but also independent world media who highlight this oppression. I suggest you do more research. I would recommend watching a Chanel 4 docu called Kashmirs torture trail. You seem to be serious denial.

3. See above. If (some) people indulge unlawful activities, the State has every right to do what needs to do to protect the citizens. Internet connectivity is disrupted only in one state and not elsewhere. Why? Because there is active terrorism going on in that state. If people of that state start behaving themselves, they can have as much internet as they want!

So everyone in this area are involved in terorrism? Besides my point was on Modi;s remarks against Pakistan which you have completely ignored.

What else?

Nothing as you can't even counter basic knowledge.

 

[English August]

Had to laugh at this. You live in the US, know that there's no anti-Pakistan 'ranting', that Kashmiris are terrorists and Pakistan has a deep state?

I'd try to explain these issues to you, but the Indian economy is great and nothing else should matter.

For someone who likes to talk a lot about obtuseness, comprehension skills, et. al. it appears rather obtuse on your part to keep trying to conflate everything I said with the (accurate) points I made on economy. And yet you're the one who keeps bringing up India's poverty levels at every juncture (even on a topic involving arms sales -- when clearly there is no co-relation or causation!). When presented with facts, you run and change the subject.

Nice try though.

 

[GBK_Fan]

Surely by this standard Abu Bakr Al Baghdadi should be considered? He's led his 'people' from nothing and gave them international recognition. Our views don't matter. Also why not Kim Jong Un? Ask any North Korean about him and I dare you to find them declare a bad word about him publicly.

What are your views on Jinnah?

 

[ShadabFakhar]

For someone who likes to talk a lot about obtuseness, comprehension skills, et. al. it appears rather obtuse on your part to keep trying to conflate everything I said with the (accurate) points I made on economy.

It's funny because you made a great case then went on to say Kashmir had no impact on it. in a Kashmir thread!

And yet you're the one who keeps bringing up India's poverty levels at every juncture (even on a topic involving arms sales -- when clearly there is no co-relation or causation!). When presented with facts, you run and change the subject.

Bring forward the quotes on poverty and state the facts from which I ran.
Nice try though.

Hyperbole doesn't work with me.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

What are your views on Jinnah?

Man of conviction and integrity. His political leanings were founded by people like Syed Ahmed Khan who was played/conspired with the British. Ultimately he found a different solution to a common problem at the time. I would have preferred for him to work harder with Congress to achieve something that would eliminate British influence absolutely from the region . However, his decision has been vindicated by the likes of Shiv Sena, Modi, etc.

 

[English August]

Nothing as you can't even counter basic knowledge.

Your point on beef fan fell flat. It was a straight yes/no question, now you're trying to make it murky. Did Modi introduce beef ban in India for the first time after assuming power? Answer is no. Deal with it.

You started talking about HRW/AI. Now it's international media. Fine. My point still remains: the world's largest democracy doesn't need certificate of good behavior from foreign-funded NGOs, media [ or any other new category you may choose to introduce now. ] It can look after its citizens.

I never said all Kashmiris are terrorists. But if you live in terrorism-infested area sometimes you have to put up with inconveniences like internet / phone not working, curfew being imposed etc. What else do you expect security personnel to do? Give free reign to terrorists? Is that your solution?

I forget to address the ranting point, so let's do it now. What's the big deal about ranting? Modi says 100 things every day. Of those 100 things if there is a passing reference to Pakistan (which happens to be ongoing permanent irritant for India BTW), how does that become constant ranting?

Back to my question: do you have any sense of proportion? Do you have idea what goes on in India?

 

[GBK_Fan]

Man of conviction and integrity. His political leanings were founded by people like Syed Ahmed Khan who was played/conspired with the British. Ultimately he found a different solution to a common problem at the time. I would have preferred for him to work harder with Congress to achieve something that would eliminate British influence absolutely from the region . However, his decision has been vindicated by the likes of Shiv Sena, Modi, etc.

So you agree with his call for Direct Action Day and the violence that ensued? See nothing ironic with your statements

 

[English August]

Hyperbole doesn't work with me.

Which part of the post would you characterize as hyperbole? Or should we instead say "facts don't work well with you"?

You started hating the point on economy the moment I presented the actual GDP numbers to you. Now you're twisting your arguments to talk about poverty! When I presented the size of the Kashmir problem vis-a-vis what India at large stands for (5 million vs. 1.25 billion -- facts), you started talking about morality. In response, when I brought up Gandhi / Vivekanand, your response is to call me obtuse and question my ability to comprehend. In between you started blaming Modi for the state of affairs and taking India towards Nazism. With zero proof of course. Because let's face it, you can't deal with facts.

All you have done so far is throw mud. But that's okay, this is internet after all.

 

[Third_Umpire]

I suggest if you try to read world news , your doubts would be non existant.

Mark Sofer, Deputy Director General of the Israeli Foreign Ministry’s Asia-Pacific department made a statement basically saying Israel and India have a common fight against terrorism and supports India policy against Pakistan. It is one of the reasons why they are meeting as Israel will provide even more sophisticated weapons to India to use against Pakistan.

Drone strikes are part of the war on terror which was part of securing Israel. It's not hard to understand why Israel wouldn't want an Muslim nation to have nukes, which in the past it has tried to stop from coming into existance and disturbing.

These are facts, perhaps you need to upgrade your level of knowledge instead of calling information theories just because you have no clue.

Nice attempt to twist, didn't work though.

Regardless of sound bytes, Israel is selling equipment to India because India is paying for it. This is not a charitable donation. If Pakistan was paying for weapons, you can bet Israel would sell. Happens all the time. America, UK, France, Russia sell to many Muslim nations, including Pakistan. Israel is different to you because of your personal Islamic angle. Btw: ever spoken to anyone from Israel? You'll be surprised and what kind of people they are. Almost all of them have served in the military, so the general opinion is not different from the state's.

Drone strikes and securing Israel, that whole sentence was confused mumbo jumbo.

Try again. Or better yet, don't.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

So you agree with his call for Direct Action Day and the violence that ensued? See nothing ironic with your statements

Easy to say in retrospect. There's no irony at all. Opening sentence should have explained it, Jinnah was a man of firm conviction and integrity. He knew Congress better than you or me because he was part of it. If you want the truth, I think there was always going to be bloodshed because of British involvement. Leading politicians of both parties had been educated in Britain. If I had it my way I'd have liked people like Maudoodi instead of SAK because the former had been vocal against colonialism and the latter was indifferent to it. Bear in mind, I don't follow Maudoodi's religious leanings.

There would have been a two-state solution eventually, but I would have liked it to be in the region's interests and not Britain's. Again, retrospect is a great at disappointing people.

 

[Mamoon]

"All that matters is that the majority in his own country look up to him and that is why I find it appropriate to consider him a great leader." I didn't see any reference to democracy there and for terrorism allegations you mentioned "..., you are(sic) anyone else may think of him as a terrorist who should have been hanged for his crimes, but our views do not matter." More U-turns than the Maybot herself.

Yes, if you decide to look at posts individually without making an honest attempt to understand the context of the discussion and try to support your narrative with comical straw-man analogies, then of course you will see U-turns.

Another thing though. You are missing out an important detail - people in North Korea, or in tyrannical states in general - don't really "look up to the leader". They obey because they have no choice. You follow the supreme ruler or you die. Similarly, that is how ISIS operates as well. It is centralized unlike Al-Qaeda.

Hence, it cannot be compared to Modi's regime who was democratically elected and can be democratically rejected if the people of India wish. The people were under no obligation or duty to put their faith in him, but rather, they chose to do so because they believed in him.

Yes he is a demagogue, but you could not have brought two worse examples (ISIS and North Korea) to prove why Modi cannot be considered a great leader from the perspective of India, and especially the 80% Hindus that reside there and chose to vote for him out of their free will.

 

[www787]

Its not useless when history suggests invasion of india and killing of millions of people and forced conversions of many hindus willingly or unwillingly ,which later on created another country. So india has to defend if not by learning from her history.China threat is also always on india.

Let's be honest, no one wants to invade India anymore. But I'm sure feel good to feel important.

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

Israel to extend all possible support to India against Pakistan

JERUSALEM (Daily Dunya) – Israel while announcing complete and unconditional support for India has said that there is no difference between the Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Hamas.

"We feel that India has a right to defend itself against terrorists in the same way as Israel has a right to defend itself from terrorists. We are both suffering from the same scourge. I really don’t see any difference between the Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Hamas; I never did and I don’t today. A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist," Deputy Director General of Israel’s foreign ministry, Mark Sofer said while talking to media.

Sofer asserted that India and Isreal both are facing the menace of terrorism. He said that Israel will assist India in tackling terrorism emanating from within the country and Pakistan.

"Israel has never hidden the fact that it supports India hook, line and sinker on the subject of terrorism. We are not asking for a quid pro quo. You have suffered from terrorism from inside India, and not just emanating from Pakistan, which has been seen in recent history," he said.

"Killing people for some sort of spurious or inexplicable ideological aim is terrorism, however you look at it. And that is what is happening from outside into India and coming from outside into Israel as well. We both clearly share the same struggle against the forces of evil," notified Sofer, who has also served as ambassador to India.

Modi begins first ever Israel visit by an Indian PM

Prime Minister Narendra Modi arrived in Israel on Tuesday for what he called a "groundbreaking" first ever visit by an Indian premier, with growing ties between the two countries including billion of dollars in defence deals.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other officials gave Modi a red carpet welcome at Ben Gurion airport near Tel Aviv as he began his three-day visit.

The two leaders embraced heartily and gave brief speeches, pledging to work together on issues including security, agriculture and energy.

"It is my singular honour to be the first ever prime minister of India to undertake this groundbreaking visit to Israel," Modi said.

Netanyahu said "we ve been waiting for you a long time. We ve been waiting almost 70 years in fact, because yours is truly a historic visit".

The two leaders are to hold talks on Wednesday. India is the world’s biggest importer of defence equipment, and Israel has become one of its major suppliers.

Israeli media have reported that the two countries sign defence deals averaging more than $1 billion (880 million euros) a year.

In April, state-owned Israel Aerospace Industries said India would buy nearly $2 billion worth of weapons technology, making it the military exporting giant’s largest ever defence contract.

The deal will see IAI provide India with an advanced defence system of medium-range surface-to-air missiles, launchers and communications technology.

--- with inputs from AFP.

http://dunyanews.tv/index.php/en/World/395570-Israel-to-extend-all-possible-support-to-India-aga

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Yes, if you decide to look at posts individually without making an honest attempt to understand the context of the discussion and try to support your narrative with comical straw-man analogies, then of course you will see U-turns.

Another thing though. You are missing out an important detail - people in North Korea, or in tyrannical states in general - don't really "look up to the leader". They obey because they have no choice. You follow the supreme ruler or you die. Similarly, that is how ISIS operates as well. It is centralized unlike Al-Qaeda.

Hence, it cannot be compared to Modi's regime who was democratically elected and can be democratically rejected if the people of India wish. The people were under no obligation or duty to put their faith in him, but rather, they chose to do so because they believed in him.

Yes he is a demagogue, but you could not have brought two worse examples (ISIS and North Korea) to prove why Modi cannot be considered a great leader from the perspective of India, and especially the 80% Hindus that reside there and chose to vote for him out of their free will.

You gave a criteria of a good leader and I fulfilled it with NK and ISIS. You said nothing about democracy and about terrorism you rightly considered it a political viewpoint.

There was a genuine attempt based on your own words. You write sentences declaring why you came to a conclusion, expect criticism of those sentences.

I mentioned two of the worst examples to demonstrate to you how easy it is to label a 'great leader' based on such a narrow criteria. You hadn't mentioned democracy or democratic leaders, if you had done I would have said Khaled Mashal. Declared a terrorist but "our views don't matter."

 

[ExpressPacer]

India is doing everything that is ideal for it's own existence and future. The priorities of the nation trump and and every other thing. I remember India having supported the Palestinian cause consistently in the past but to do so on the cost of it's own benefit would be stupid and Indian leaders certainly aren't stupid.

 

[akki]

Let's be honest, no one wants to invade India anymore. But I'm sure feel good to feel important.

china already did in 1962 took aksai chin by invading. pakistan wud alsi want to invade. india has all right to spend this much on armed race

 

[Vayuu]

You're only fooling yourself. Your so called criticism is then backed with with statements suggesting Israel is here so nobody should criticise it too much. Being a Non-Muslim,(dont know why you have the Pak flag btw), you think you can be neutral but you're only showing yourself as an apologist for Zionism.

Jews have never been great combatants and their soldiers are very cowardly. Hizbollah killed over 100 of them , Israel was defeated so badly it dropped mines on the way out which it knew would killed innocent people. Hezbollah alone has enough misslies now, with full lauch capablities it can target Tel Aviv with ease and almost every other Israeli town. It's not the Goliath you seem to think it is.

I guess than u haven't read about the Arab wars and how they handpicked and killed every bloody terrorist involved in Munich massacre, underestimate ur enemy at ur own peril.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don't subscribe to the theory ''Modi supporters hate Muslims'' as I had a very good Indian friend, a die-hard Modi fan but hated Islamophobia. But surely you must agree the right-wing rhetoric under his PMship has ballooned.

Modi is supported because he is a better administrator and he has proved it in various cases.The GST being the latest.

I agree with you that certain right wing rhetoric has increased in India and that needs to be muzzled.I hate these cow protection idiots like anything.

Problem is that some of the progressive things that Modi is doing like going againist triple talaq and polygamy in muslims which has received widespread support among muslim woman,is being used by opposition as anti muslim,the counter affect is that the right wing believe ohh we need to support Modi.A vicious cycle.

I believe that the second term of Modi if he wins will see far less right wing hooliganism as things will settle down.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Had to laugh at this. You live in the US, know that there's no anti-Pakistan 'ranting', that Kashmiris are terrorists and Pakistan has a deep state?

I'd try to explain these issues to you, but the Indian economy is great and nothing else should matter.

And a Pakistani knows everything about India.LOL.

Pakistani Army is the one that decides foreign policy in Pakistan?Is it not?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Israel to extend all possible support to India against Pakistan

JERUSALEM (Daily Dunya) – Israel while announcing complete and unconditional support for India has said that there is no difference between the Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Hamas.

"We feel that India has a right to defend itself against terrorists in the same way as Israel has a right to defend itself from terrorists. We are both suffering from the same scourge. I really don’t see any difference between the Lashkar-e-Taiba and the Hamas; I never did and I don’t today. A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist," Deputy Director General of Israel’s foreign ministry, Mark Sofer said while talking to media.

Sofer asserted that India and Isreal both are facing the menace of terrorism. He said that Israel will assist India in tackling terrorism emanating from within the country and Pakistan.

"Israel has never hidden the fact that it supports India hook, line and sinker on the subject of terrorism. We are not asking for a quid pro quo. You have suffered from terrorism from inside India, and not just emanating from Pakistan, which has been seen in recent history," he said.

"Killing people for some sort of spurious or inexplicable ideological aim is terrorism, however you look at it. And that is what is happening from outside into India and coming from outside into Israel as well. We both clearly share the same struggle against the forces of evil," notified Sofer, who has also served as ambassador to India.

Modi begins first ever Israel visit by an Indian PM

Prime Minister Narendra Modi arrived in Israel on Tuesday for what he called a "groundbreaking" first ever visit by an Indian premier, with growing ties between the two countries including billion of dollars in defence deals.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other officials gave Modi a red carpet welcome at Ben Gurion airport near Tel Aviv as he began his three-day visit.

The two leaders embraced heartily and gave brief speeches, pledging to work together on issues including security, agriculture and energy.

"It is my singular honour to be the first ever prime minister of India to undertake this groundbreaking visit to Israel," Modi said.

Netanyahu said "we ve been waiting for you a long time. We ve been waiting almost 70 years in fact, because yours is truly a historic visit".

The two leaders are to hold talks on Wednesday. India is the world’s biggest importer of defence equipment, and Israel has become one of its major suppliers.

Israeli media have reported that the two countries sign defence deals averaging more than $1 billion (880 million euros) a year.

In April, state-owned Israel Aerospace Industries said India would buy nearly $2 billion worth of weapons technology, making it the military exporting giant’s largest ever defence contract.

The deal will see IAI provide India with an advanced defence system of medium-range surface-to-air missiles, launchers and communications technology.

--- with inputs from AFP.

http://dunyanews.tv/index.php/en/World/395570-Israel-to-extend-all-possible-support-to-India-aga

So Lashkar e Toiba is equal to Pakistan?or is LeT not a terror organisation?

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Do you realize that Modi has been cleared of all those accusations by numerous inquiries (while the Congress was still in charge ) ?

"Human Rights Watch notes that regardless of whether Mr. Modi's direct complicity can be established or not, he should be held accountable at the least for failing to stop or control the riots, according to John Sifton, the Asia advocacy director of the organization.... "

"...The Gujarat High Court began a hearing on a petition filed related to the massacre at the Gulbarg Society in 2002 of 69 people including Ehsan Jafri, a former member of India’s Parliament. Zakia Jafri, the widow of Mr. Jafri, is trying to overturn on appeal a 2012 ruling by an investigative panel of the Supreme Court that there was not enough evidence to charge Mr. Modi in connection with the massacre. The proceedings could leave him facing criminal charges.

Ahead of the proceedings, entities controlled by Mr. Modi or his allies began a campaign of leaks and attacks against Teesta Setalvad, a human rights activist, who spent months assembling evidence for the case. The Central Bureau of Investigation raided her home, a prosecutor branded her a threat to the country’s national security and the state of Gujarat joined the rush to jail her."

NYTimes


This is Modi, simple Supreme Court clearance means lack of evidence not lack of complicity.

 

[Romali_rotti]

BEST prime minister India ever had and one of the smartest and shrewd leaders in the world currently.. This man is straight out balling.............. Proud of you Modichayan

 

[ShadabFakhar]

And a Pakistani knows everything about India.LOL.

Pakistani Army is the one that decides foreign policy in Pakistan?Is it not?

Hyperbole yet again from yet another pro-Modi Indian. English August has been shown up for what he is in the Kashmir thread. I'd put him on an ignore list if it's possible.

Every intelligence agency and military provide an input into foreign policy. Do you not remember the Iraq war or do you not consider that foreign policy? That wasn't even a country who directly threatened the US-UK. With Pakistan-India it's a whole new ball game. No defender of Pakistani armed forces or Nawaz Sharif but NS is as incompetent as they come and Pakistan, a showcase of democracy gone wrong.

 

[hussain123]

Do listen to Putin on what he has to say about India and Pakistan.There is no strategic Russia-Pak relation except that your ISPR wants to feed it.4 choppers and Russia is a Pak startegic ally.

Many Arab nations are themselves with Israel.

Indo russ relations are holding inspite of modi's infatuation and eagerness to serve as us's counterweight to china.decades old closeness doesnt get rolled back in few years but you would be ignoring geopolitical,security alignment of russia and Pakistan at your own peril.few weeks ago putin called pakistan as an important partner in the region and joint military drills despite indian opposition and russia's pro pakistan tilt in afghanistan.are you really denying such developments as business as usual??btw indo russ relations may survive these jitters but surely they no longer are allowing india to dictate its policy vis a vis pakistan as used to be the case earlier.

 

[Pakpak]

Modi is supported because he is a better administrator and he has proved it in various cases.The GST being the latest.

I agree with you that certain right wing rhetoric has increased in India and that needs to be muzzled.I hate these cow protection idiots like anything.

Problem is that some of the progressive things that Modi is doing like going againist triple talaq and polygamy in muslims which has received widespread support among muslim woman,is being used by opposition as anti muslim,the counter affect is that the right wing believe ohh we need to support Modi.A vicious cycle.

I believe that the second term of Modi if he wins will see far less right wing hooliganism as things will settle down.

Fair enough.

Now Russia, it is still a big partner to India and will remain so for the foreseeable future but there is no denying their policy towards Pakistan has and is changing. After the Uri attacks, I think it was, despite Indian protests and Indians saying they won't do it; the Russians landed in Pakistan for our first ever drill in our history making a bit of a mockery about all the rhetoric of ''isolate Pakistan''.

Russia would never just abandon its relationship with India, but its a fact India is much closer to the US than it ever was and Pakistan present relationship with Russia is unthinkable in terms of improvement as compared to say 20 years go despite India's attempt to isolate Pakistan.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

Fair enough.

Now Russia, it is still a big partner to India and will remain so for the foreseeable future but there is no denying their policy towards Pakistan has and is changing. After the Uri attacks, I think it was, despite Indian protests and Indians saying they won't do it; the Russians landed in Pakistan for our first ever drill in our history making a bit of a mockery about all the rhetoric of ''isolate Pakistan''.

Russia would never just abandon its relationship with India, but its a fact India is much closer to the US than it ever was and Pakistan present relationship with Russia is unthinkable in terms of improvement as compared to say 20 years go despite India's attempt to isolate Pakistan.

It's always going to be the case that some country will exploit the tensions between the two countries to benefit themselves. It was like that from the very beginning and going by the posters on here alone that policy will continue for some time to come.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Fair enough.

Now Russia, it is still a big partner to India and will remain so for the foreseeable future but there is no denying their policy towards Pakistan has and is changing. After the Uri attacks, I think it was, despite Indian protests and Indians saying they won't do it; the Russians landed in Pakistan for our first ever drill in our history making a bit of a mockery about all the rhetoric of ''isolate Pakistan''.

Russia would never just abandon its relationship with India, but its a fact India is much closer to the US than it ever was and Pakistan present relationship with Russia is unthinkable in terms of improvement as compared to say 20 years go despite India's attempt to isolate Pakistan.

Its only natural, Indians are getting quite close with the Americans, naturally the Russians would counter act that by associating with Pakistan..... Keeps everything nicely balanced...

 

[Tusker]

"Human Rights Watch notes that regardless of whether Mr. Modi's direct complicity can be established or not, he should be held accountable at the least for failing to stop or control the riots, according to John Sifton, the Asia advocacy director of the organization.... "

"...The Gujarat High Court began a hearing on a petition filed related to the massacre at the Gulbarg Society in 2002 of 69 people including Ehsan Jafri, a former member of India’s Parliament. Zakia Jafri, the widow of Mr. Jafri, is trying to overturn on appeal a 2012 ruling by an investigative panel of the Supreme Court that there was not enough evidence to charge Mr. Modi in connection with the massacre. The proceedings could leave him facing criminal charges.

Ahead of the proceedings, entities controlled by Mr. Modi or his allies began a campaign of leaks and attacks against Teesta Setalvad, a human rights activist, who spent months assembling evidence for the case. The Central Bureau of Investigation raided her home, a prosecutor branded her a threat to the country’s national security and the state of Gujarat joined the rush to jail her."

NYTimes


This is Modi, simple Supreme Court clearance means lack of evidence not lack of complicity.

It takes 1000s of people and numerous phone calls to manage the logistics needed to run the riots for days if it was planned ... therefore lack of evidence in this case means that he had nothing to do with it. All parties you mention had their day in the court (multiple times) ... they even moved the court proceedings to a different state ( where Congress was in Power) so that the investigations would not be supposedly influenced by anyone in Gujarat.

But victim mentality being what it is amongst Muslims in India and Pakistan they expected Modi to be hung just because they feel he was responsible. World doesnt operate like that.

BTW ever wonder why these so called bleeding heart liberal loonies activists never undertake such missions against say the people who were responsible for burning the Train at Godhra ? I suppose Muslims are shining examples of peace and non-violence that it is a non-starter to question those who were responsible for such horrific crimes ... right ?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Hyperbole yet again from yet another pro-Modi Indian. English August has been shown up for what he is in the Kashmir thread. I'd put him on an ignore list if it's possible.

Every intelligence agency and military provide an input into foreign policy. Do you not remember the Iraq war or do you not consider that foreign policy? That wasn't even a country who directly threatened the US-UK. With Pakistan-India it's a whole new ball game. No defender of Pakistani armed forces or Nawaz Sharif but NS is as incompetent as they come and Pakistan, a showcase of democracy gone wrong.

Inputs and being incharge are two different things.Pak Army directly ruled Pakistan for most of its history and is incharge of its foreign policy.Is that the truth or not?

Stop pretending that you know much about India or what Modi has done for India.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Indo russ relations are holding inspite of modi's infatuation and eagerness to serve as us's counterweight to china.decades old closeness doesnt get rolled back in few years but you would be ignoring geopolitical,security alignment of russia and Pakistan at your own peril.few weeks ago putin called pakistan as an important partner in the region and joint military drills despite indian opposition and russia's pro pakistan tilt in afghanistan.are you really denying such developments as business as usual??btw indo russ relations may survive these jitters but surely they no longer are allowing india to dictate its policy vis a vis pakistan as used to be the case earlier.

Putin said last month that Russia doesnt have any close military cooperation with Pakistan and that Russia will support Indias fight againist terrorism no matter where the threat comes from.Thats from the mouth of the person who makes all decisions in Moscow.

Russia has nothing to gain from Pakistan.Leave the strategic aspect,Russia has billions to gain from India via trade.

ISPR can keep dreaming about Pak Russia axis.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Fair enough.

Now Russia, it is still a big partner to India and will remain so for the foreseeable future but there is no denying their policy towards Pakistan has and is changing. After the Uri attacks, I think it was, despite Indian protests and Indians saying they won't do it; the Russians landed in Pakistan for our first ever drill in our history making a bit of a mockery about all the rhetoric of ''isolate Pakistan''.

Russia would never just abandon its relationship with India, but its a fact India is much closer to the US than it ever was and Pakistan present relationship with Russia is unthinkable in terms of improvement as compared to say 20 years go despite India's attempt to isolate Pakistan.

If i am not wrong Pak Army proposed to have the military exercises in PoK,which was rejected by Russians.That settled the primary objection of India.

In last few months pakistan has released various statements vis a vis Russia.One last month was about Russia mediating on Kashmir.Russians rejected it.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This is where his critics have it completely backwards. He's been the PM for three years now, which is long enough to judge an elected leader. During this time, he's basically not pushed a single Hindutva agenda. There is no talk of building a glorious Ram Mandir in Ayodhya. There is no talk of waging a war against Pakistan (basically there is no talk of Pakistan as all, after the initial unsuccessful flirtations with Sharif, he's basically put the entire Pak agenda on the backburner). So what has been he focussing on: running a more efficient administration at all levels, pushing the industrialization and investment agenda, rural electrification, tax reforms and creating the world's single largest unified market, etc. As I said, people are losing patience even with this (e.g., not enough new jobs are being created).

So all these people who accuse him of pushing the Hindutva ideology -- I have no idea what they're talking about. All this controversy about beef etc. is just a distraction.

Why would he need to openly address or admit his Hindutva agenda when he can put his minions and lackeys in positions to do that work for him? here he is with staunch Hindutva hardliner Yogi Adityanath, appointed Chief Minister for UP by the craftyModi to do his dirty work for on his behalf.

 

[Pakpak]

If i am not wrong Pak Army proposed to have the military exercises in PoK,which was rejected by Russians.That settled the primary objection of India.

In last few months pakistan has released various statements vis a vis Russia.One last month was about Russia mediating on Kashmir.Russians rejected it.

Pakistan proposed to have exercises anywhere, while India protested at Russians holding ANY drill especially after India was accusing Pakistan of being involved in a terror attack. So from a massive Indian ally to ignore that and to hold the drills a day after Uri was a big thing.

What I am saying is what Romali has said above me. While India and Russia still have very deep ties but India getting closer to US has allowed Russia to do the same for us. And, as someone who is sick of Pakistan bowing and scraping to US, I am glad our policy is getting some diversification. As it should.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Pakistan proposed to have exercises anywhere, while India protested at Russians holding ANY drill especially after India was accusing Pakistan of being involved in a terror attack. So from a massive Indian ally to ignore that and to hold the drills a day after Uri was a big thing.

What I am saying is what Romali has said above me. While India and Russia still have very deep ties but India getting closer to US has allowed Russia to do the same for us. And, as someone who is sick of Pakistan bowing and scraping to US, I am glad our policy is getting some diversification. As it should.

Pakistan had proposed the drill in some mountain warfare school on PoK.Indians objection was to that.

Russia will only get so close to Pakistan.Cordial and strategic relations are two different things.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why would he need to openly address or admit his Hindutva agenda when he can put his minions and lackeys in positions to do that work for him? here he is with staunch Hindutva hardliner Yogi Adityanath, appointed Chief Minister for UP by the craftyModi to do his dirty work for on his behalf.

View attachment 75405

Yogi Adityanath won an election.Thats why he is the CM.

Can you tell me which hardline decision he has taken?

 

[Pakpak]

Pakistan had proposed the drill in some mountain warfare school on PoK.Indians objection was to that.

Russia will only get so close to Pakistan.Cordial and strategic relations are two different things.

Russia getting close to Pakistan at all is a massive success on our part, especially at a time when the Indians are working to isolate us was my point.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Yogi Adityanath won an election.Thats why he is the CM.

Can you tell me which hardline decision he has taken?

I can tell you some of his more controversial quotes which will pave the way for future decisions:

About Mother Teresa: She was part of the conspiracy to Christianize India. Hindus were converted in the name of doing service and then converted

On Yoga: Lord Shankar was the biggest Yogi who started Yoga. Mahadev lives in every particle of this country. So those who want to avoid Yoga and Lord Shankar, can leave Hindustan.


About Shah Rukh Khan: Shah Rukh Khan should remember that if people would boycott his films, he would also have to wander in the streets like a normal Muslim… These people are speaking in the language of terrorists. I think there is no difference between the language of Shah Rukh Khan and Hafiz Saeed.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

It takes 1000s of people and numerous phone calls to manage the logistics needed to run the riots for days if it was planned ... therefore lack of evidence in this case means that he had nothing to do with it. All parties you mention had their day in the court (multiple times) ... they even moved the court proceedings to a different state ( where Congress was in Power) so that the investigations would not be supposedly influenced by anyone in Gujarat.

Yes, it was massive which is why there were so many different cases concerning the riots. Many were convicted.

But victim mentality being what it is amongst Muslims in India and Pakistan they expected Modi to be hung just because they feel he was responsible. World doesnt operate like that.

Again blatant disregard for Indian Muslims showing through. Don't know about Indian Muslims as a whole, just take the word of the two sources I gave you from the New York Times. Both are non-Muslims.


BTW ever wonder why these so called bleeding heart liberal loonies activists never undertake such missions against say the people who were responsible for burning the Train at Godhra ? I suppose Muslims are shining examples of peace and non-violence that it is a non-starter to question those who were responsible for such horrific crimes ... right ?

Go ask the rights activists if you want to know. I don't remain silent or condone leaders that are blasé about violence or let it go on due to their own warped beliefs.

 

[Pakpak]

I can tell you some of his more controversial quotes which will pave the way for future decisions:

About Mother Teresa: She was part of the conspiracy to Christianize India. Hindus were converted in the name of doing service and then converted

On Yoga: Lord Shankar was the biggest Yogi who started Yoga. Mahadev lives in every particle of this country. So those who want to avoid Yoga and Lord Shankar, can leave Hindustan.


About Shah Rukh Khan: Shah Rukh Khan should remember that if people would boycott his films, he would also have to wander in the streets like a normal Muslim… These people are speaking in the language of terrorists. I think there is no difference between the language of Shah Rukh Khan and Hafiz Saeed.

Some additions:

In an undated video that surfaced on YouTube during August 2014, Adityanath, reportedly during a public speech at Azamgarh, referring to the religious conversions due to inter-religious marriages, has said, "if they take one Hindu girl, we will take 100 Muslims girls." In the same video, he continues to say, "if they kill one Hindu, there will be 100 that we" and pauses, as the gathered crowd shouts: "kill"

In February 2015, while speaking at the Vishwa Hindu Parishad’s ‘Virat Hindu Sammelan’, Adityanath commented: "If given a chance, we will install statues of Goddess Gauri, Ganesh and Nandi " — Hindu deities — "in every mosque."

 

[hussain123]

Putin said last month that Russia doesnt have any close military cooperation with Pakistan and that Russia will support Indias fight againist terrorism no matter where the threat comes from.Thats from the mouth of the person who makes all decisions in Moscow.

Russia has nothing to gain from Pakistan.Leave the strategic aspect,Russia has billions to gain from India via trade.

ISPR can keep dreaming about Pak Russia axis.

Well gentleman,sorry but you are living in denial.

 

[ShadabFakhar]

I can tell you some of his more controversial quotes which will pave the way for future decisions:

About Mother Teresa: She was part of the conspiracy to Christianize India. Hindus were converted in the name of doing service and then converted

On Yoga: Lord Shankar was the biggest Yogi who started Yoga. Mahadev lives in every particle of this country. So those who want to avoid Yoga and Lord Shankar, can leave Hindustan.


About Shah Rukh Khan: Shah Rukh Khan should remember that if people would boycott his films, he would also have to wander in the streets like a normal Muslim… These people are speaking in the language of terrorists. I think there is no difference between the language of Shah Rukh Khan and Hafiz Saeed.

What! Get out of here. Don't you know only Muslims are extremists? God. Almighty. Get with the times lad.