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New Zealand [233/2] beat Bangladesh [232] by eight wickets in first ODI, lead series 1-0

rhony said:
Hes a golden boy for someone higher up. I wouldnt be surprised if he continues playing in T20Is. He's done in ODIs for a while though
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Shivam Dube might have more utility than him. Bowls part timer and can hit them big.
 
Shafi said:
NZ batting is struggling very badly!!!!! Its unlikely this team can reach semi playing like this
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This is NZ's highest opening partnership in 20 games. 49 for no loss in 13 overs in a chase of 233 is called winning position.
 
MMHS said:
This is the biggest challenge - very little penetrative skills. We try to restrict teams to a manageable total regardless of batting first or 2nd, which worked for SRL in 90s era (their batting & fielding was better as well), but in these era restrictive bowling doesn't work - you have to strike the top order. Kiwis are always in command unless the target is like 333. Also, these days they start D/N game at least an hour earlier, which actually goes against defending side, because a 2:30 start makes start of 2nd innings a bit tricky in twilight zone.
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Lanka of 96 was very good side. People generally look at there opening combo of Jayasuriya - kalu , but there real strength was there middle order : Gurusingha , Aravinda , Ranatunga , Mahanama, Tilakratne. Specialist batsman at number 7 . They were capable of supporting the team whenever the openers failed.
 
WengerOut said:
Shivam Dube might have more utility than him. Bowls part timer and can hit them big.
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I think India has AR positions covered. Need a good pacer. Got see how these newbies do in IPL. Mavi is another to check out. He's not a left though
 
Justcrazy said:
Lanka of 96 was very good side. People generally look at there opening combo of Jayasuriya - kalu , but there real strength was there middle order : Gurusingha , Aravinda , Ranatunga , Mahanama, Tilakratne. Specialist batsman at number 7 . They were capable of supporting the team whenever the openers failed.
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Don't forget the killer combo of Vaas and Murali. That team can dominate any Asian team even now. They had a dynamic batting lineup, with wicket taking and strangling bowlers.
 
Justcrazy said:
Lanka of 96 was very good side. People generally look at there opening combo of Jayasuriya - kalu , but there real strength was there middle order : Gurusingha , Aravinda , Ranatunga , Mahanama, Tilakratne. Specialist batsman at number 7 . They were capable of supporting the team whenever the openers failed.
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They were brilliant side, not very good. On Asian condition undoubtedly the best team between 1994 to 1998 and they would have won 1996 WSC as well without blunt and shameless cheating from Aussie umpires. Arjuna knew the formula of exactly what his team could chase or defend and they always played like defending at total - batting 1st or 2nd doesn't matter. Many times, I have seen teams finishing 50 overs 20-30 under per with 4-5 wickets in hand - some how Arjuna convinced them that there is time left to slog until 50 overs are gone!!!!
 
rhony said:
Don't forget the killer combo of Vaas and Murali. That team can dominate any Asian team even now. They had a dynamic batting lineup, with wicket taking and strangling bowlers.
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Jayasurya, the bowler was a more sane version of Kedar Jadhav them. Low, slings action and difficult to get away. Dismissed Sachin in the 96 SF.
 
WengerOut said:
Jayasurya, the bowler was a more sane version of Kedar Jadhav them. Low, slings action and difficult to get away. Dismissed Sachin in the 96 SF.
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There was this game in Sharjah where Lara scored 160+ and SL hunted the 300+ target with 4 or 5 early wickets. That's when everybody knew SL was a dark horse for the 1996 WC. Jayasuriya was more than a decent bowler. Jadav is just a mascot, a lucky mascot though. The look on batsmen's faces when they get out to Jadav's dollies:))
 
MMHS said:
They were brilliant side, not very good. On Asian condition undoubtedly the best team between 1994 to 1998 and they would have won 1996 WSC as well without blunt and shameless cheating from Aussie umpires. Arjuna knew the formula of exactly what his team could chase or defend and they always played like defending at total - batting 1st or 2nd doesn't matter. Many times, I have seen teams finishing 50 overs 20-30 under per with 4-5 wickets in hand - some how Arjuna convinced them that there is time left to slog until 50 overs are gone!!!!
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I see similar traits in Dhoni captaincy , specially the way he used part time spinners .
 
MMHS said:
They were brilliant side, not very good. On Asian condition undoubtedly the best team between 1994 to 1998 and they would have won 1996 WSC as well without blunt and shameless cheating from Aussie umpires. Arjuna knew the formula of exactly what his team could chase or defend and they always played like defending at total - batting 1st or 2nd doesn't matter. Many times, I have seen teams finishing 50 overs 20-30 under per with 4-5 wickets in hand - some how Arjuna convinced them that there is time left to slog until 50 overs are gone!!!!
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How do you fancy your side's progress/pipeline when the big guns retires? I do follow BD cricket from time to time, seems like some decent tallent, however most of the time it seems like the usual 3-4 seniors that is carrying the team around.
 
light said:
How do you fancy your side's progress/pipeline when the big guns retires? I do follow BD cricket from time to time, seems like some decent tallent, however most of the time it seems like the usual 3-4 seniors that is carrying the team around.
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They are all 28 to 30, that's prime age for batsmen. That's Tamim, Shakib, Mushy and Mahmudullah. They will all play the 2023 WC as well. BD's challenge is No.2 and No.3 batsmen. Litton is sparkly but is very inconsistent. Sowmya doesn't evoke any confidence. BD needs to plug there gaps as their bowling can't win them many games.
 
Justcrazy said:
I see similar traits in Dhoni captaincy , specially the way he used part time spinners .
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Miandad, Ranatunga, Dhoni are all cut from the same cloth. They know how to eke out every ounce of their own talent and also very street smart, savvy.
 
rhony said:
They are all 28 to 30, that's prime age for batsmen. That's Tamim, Shakib, Mushy and Mahmudullah. They will all play the 2023 WC as well. BD's challenge is No.2 and No.3 batsmen. Litton is sparkly but is very inconsistent. Sowmya doesn't evoke any confidence. BD needs to plug there gaps as their bowling can't win them many games.
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Biggest challenge is to find couple of new ball pacers - batting isn't the biggest issue. We did compete with IND without Shakib & Tamim and Mushi, Mahmudullah not firing; and there are few good batsmen as well in pipe line. Spin resources are even brighter and the U19 Captain Akbar has the potential to be among best WK-batsman in world - couple of 140K+ pacer with adequate skills, the plot will change completely. They are trying to find fast bowlers through academy, but it won't happen - we'll have to develop the culture. These genetics or diet are bull sh!t, false bravado - we need genuine faster tracks at FC level and few good coaches at U19 level to groom the kids from fundamentals; Walshi can give tips, but he can't change a 25 years old guy, it has to be from U16-U19 level.
 
MMHS said:
Biggest challenge is to find couple of new ball pacers - batting isn't the biggest issue. We did compete with IND without Shakib & Tamim and Mushi, Mahmudullah not firing; and there are few good batsmen as well in pipe line. Spin resources are even brighter and the U19 Captain Akbar has the potential to be among best WK-batsman in world - couple of 140K+ pacer with adequate skills, the plot will change completely. They are trying to find fast bowlers through academy, but it won't happen - we'll have to develop the culture. These genetics or diet are bull sh!t, false bravado - we need genuine faster tracks at FC level and few good coaches at U19 level to groom the kids from fundamentals; Walshi can give tips, but he can't change a 25 years old guy, it has to be from U16-U19 level.
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Saw couple of BPL matches highlight, pitches were horrible. Something BCB needs to work on if pacers are to be nurtured. I agree with your comment about the Coach. You don't come to international cricket for proper coaching. You develop before stepping into national team. I see countless of people blaming Walsh but in reality his job is to design a game plan, tweak a bit here and there. Not develop a bowler from A to Z in international cricket.
 
MMHS said:
Biggest challenge is to find couple of new ball pacers - batting isn't the biggest issue. We did compete with IND without Shakib & Tamim and Mushi, Mahmudullah not firing; and there are few good batsmen as well in pipe line. Spin resources are even brighter and the U19 Captain Akbar has the potential to be among best WK-batsman in world - couple of 140K+ pacer with adequate skills, the plot will change completely. They are trying to find fast bowlers through academy, but it won't happen - we'll have to develop the culture. These genetics or diet are bull sh!t, false bravado - we need genuine faster tracks at FC level and few good coaches at U19 level to groom the kids from fundamentals; Walshi can give tips, but he can't change a 25 years old guy, it has to be from U16-U19 level.
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Fast bowlers are the toughest breed to develop. Take India's example. Take Bumrah out of the picture for a sec as he was a freak occurence. The other bowlers Ishant, Shami, BK, Umesh have been around for so many years even under Dhoni and were relative duds. Look at them now and I believe that's because of the change in tactics, strategy and good coaching. They bowl with a sense of purpose at decent pace. Name any other new pacer in Indian setup? So far none. There are a few U19 names floating around but nothing has materialized yet.
Similarly, it's probably easier to mould Taskin, Rubel who can.already bowl at 140 than to dig around U19s. Just need a good coach that can flip that switch like Indian coaching staff did.
 
light said:
Saw couple of BPL matches highlight, pitches were horrible. Something BCB needs to work on if pacers are to be nurtured. I agree with your comment about the Coach. You don't come to international cricket for proper coaching. You develop before stepping into national team. I see countless of people blaming Walsh but in reality his job is to design a game plan, tweak a bit here and there. Not develop a bowler from A to Z in international cricket.
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This year BPL was a bit different issue - Govt. & BCB Chairman was busy to rig the election just a week before BPL, therefore they didn't have the time to focus on wickets, but in general BD wickets are improving. Most of the tracks are relaid and it will take a bit time to settle. Also, we have one of the longest monsoon in world, which makes it impossible to make good wickets before FEB, but out cricket window is mostly between AUG-JAN. The League & FC cricket produces better wicket in last 3 months of the season.
 
At least get one wicket!!!!! Kiwis are walking for a 10 wicket win :(
 
New Zealand openers are having a net practice in the middle. It looks like a walk in the park for them.
 
Looks like NZ still have massive weakness against spin. How can you struggle against part timer Sabbir
 
I just realized Shakib isn't in the BD team. Where is he at? [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]
 
Nichols must be ripping his hair - missed a chance to boast average. This English Coach will take us to the door of Jahannam if he is allowed a free run - picked 2 bowlers & Mash/Saif for an ODI!!!!!
 
MMHS said:
Nichols must be ripping his hair - missed a chance to boast average. This English Coach will take us to the door of Jahannam if he is allowed a free run - picked 2 bowlers & Mash/Saif for an ODI!!!!!
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Looks like Shabbir+Riyad=10 overs is the strategy. That will strengthen the batting.
 
rhony said:
Looks like Shabbir+Riyad=10 overs is the strategy. That will strengthen the batting.
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I think, when Shakib returns, they'll drop Sabbir and pick Rubel or Taskin - that makes 6 bowler option.
 
MMHS said:
I think, when Shakib returns, they'll drop Sabbir and pick Rubel or Taskin - that makes 6 bowler option.
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Shakib should replace Soumya tbh. Sabbir provides decent batting depth. Mushy should bat at 3. Then you have Fizz, Mashrafe, Shakib as Frontline bowlers. One of Mehedi/Saif will play the AR role depending on the conditions. That's leaves a place for either Taskin or Rubel. That's a decent attack.
 
rhony said:
Shakib should replace Soumya tbh. Sabbir provides decent batting depth. Mushy should bat at 3. Then you have Fizz, Mashrafe, Shakib as Frontline bowlers. One of Mehedi/Saif will play the AR role depending on the conditions. That's leaves a place for either Taskin or Rubel. That's a decent attack.
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One of SS or Sabbir. Sabbir actually is a decent cover at 7 but Soyma has the sparkling range of shots against pacers and both are good fielders. Soumya might edge it because he can be used at 7 as well and he bowls medium pace which will be more effective in UK than Sabbir's part-time leggi.
 
rhony said:
Shakib should replace Soumya tbh. Sabbir provides decent batting depth. Mushy should bat at 3. Then you have Fizz, Mashrafe, Shakib as Frontline bowlers. One of Mehedi/Saif will play the AR role depending on the conditions. That's leaves a place for either Taskin or Rubel. That's a decent attack.
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Soumya is like Fakhar. On his good day, he can win you matches. I would say he is a better batsman than FZ.
 
Mash is trying his best to bring Saif's confidence, but small spells won't do that. He should be given at least 4 overs here, otherwise his opening spell will hunt him through out the series.
 
Space Cat said:
Kane has been disapointing in ODIs this summer. Lots of soft dismissals.
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Chopping on to his stumps and getting lbw when trying to sweep are not soft dismissals. He has been out in both of these ways for a few times now. This means he is unable to judge the bounce. It could also mean he is unable to judge the line and length. Trying to cut when the ball is too close to the body and trying to sweep when the ball is fuller than he thought. These are anything but soft.
 
WengerOut said:
Soumya is like Fakhar. On his good day, he can win you matches. I would say he is a better batsman than FZ.
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They already have Litton as a hail Mary. But I see MMHS's point of Soumya being able to play at 3 and 7 and bowl medium pacers.
 
Kane has been poor since his match winning ton against Pakistan.
 
rhony said:
Chopping on to his stumps and getting lbw when trying to sweep are not soft dismissals. He has been out in both of these ways for a few times now. This means he is unable to judge the bounce. It could also mean he is unable to judge the line and length. Trying to cut when the ball is too close to the body and trying to sweep when the ball is fuller than he thought. These are anything but soft.
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Hes also guided a ball to slip and been caught at cow several times needlessly. Today hes forced a sweep shot when had no need too. I consider that soft sorry.

Chopping it on is a misjudgement definately but i made no mention of that.
 
Everyone hypes up the big 4, but in reality Kane and Root are not in the same league as the other two.

Those two are bigger match winners and score far more heavily.

It feels like they'll never get out with Kane and Root you know you'll be given a few chances.
 
Space Cat said:
Hes also guided a ball to slip and been caught at cow several times needlessly. Today hes forced a sweep shot when had no need too. I consider that soft sorry.

Chopping it on is a misjudgement definately but i made no mention of that.
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Yes you didn't mention it but we were discussing it during India series. We can all agree he is technically one of the best batsmen with great temperment. But if a batsman of his caliber gets outs in same.ways time and again, it means he is woefully out of form and is unable to do the basics of reading line and length. The other dismissals of guiding to slip are because.of the same reason. He is not in control. They seem to be soft dismissals but there is a fundamental problem here.
 
If Guptil returns to form, this'll be a game changer for Kiwis. They are trying to seal that one opening slot (I am sure Munro will open in WC), and an inform Martin makes it a gun top 5

Guptil, Munro, Will, Ross, Latham
3 all-rounders
3 pacers

They can win it if key players are inform and others don't pull the team down.
 
Also remember these are his bread and butter strokes. He guides the ball to the third man and sweeps spinners to rotate the strike. He is getting out playing those regulation strokes. They might seem risky or unnecessary but the same shots fetched him a lot of runs over the years.
 
Aman said:
Everyone hypes up the big 4, but in reality Kane and Root are not in the same league as the other two.

Those two are bigger match winners and score far more heavily.
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I am sorry, these "match winning" intangible is conveniently used by everyone to bash players. You score runs efficiently, more chance of your team winning. Kane and Root have both being doing that. You can like a particular based on their style but can't bash them by intangibles when their records are superb on every situations.
 
Aman said:
Everyone hypes up the big 4, but in reality Kane and Root are not in the same league as the other two.

Those two are bigger match winners and score far more heavily.

It feels like they'll never get out with Kane and Root you know you'll be given a few chances.
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Kohli is well ahead of the pack .
 
Justcrazy said:
Kohli is well ahead of the pack .
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In ODIs, Root isn't far behind Kohli. Same is the case with Kohli and Kane in tests. Smith was the king of all in tests. Overall, all formats considered, Kohli is ahead but all 4 are greats of this gen
 
MMHS said:
If Guptil returns to form, this'll be a game changer for Kiwis. They are trying to seal that one opening slot (I am sure Munro will open in WC), and an inform Martin makes it a gun top 5

Guptil, Munro, Will, Ross, Latham
3 all-rounders
3 pacers

They can win it if key players are inform and others don't pull the team down.
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The main batsmen Kiwis are playing are not that consistent , that is there main weakness. In crunch games they need to fire. All rounders will not have that impact if the top order fails. Bowling is reasonable , not world class.
 
WengerOut said:
I am sorry, these "match winning" intangible is conveniently used by everyone to bash players. You score runs efficiently, more chance of your team winning. Kane and Root have both being doing that. You can like a particular based on their style but can't bash them by intangibles when their records are superb on every situations.
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I watch Kane more than you do, he's more Amla than anything. Except he doesn't score as much.

As for match winning, you've already seen Kohli win a million matches for you. Smith has won countless Tests for Aus and scored when it mattered most in the WC. So of course they're better match winners.

I don't know why you consider it intangibles to bash players when it's clear both are a different gravy.
 
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Aman said:
I watch Kane more than you do, he's more Amla than anything. Except he doesn't score as much.

As for match winning, you've already seen Kohli win a million matches for you. Smith has won countless Tests for Aus and scored when it mattered most in the WC. So of course they're better match winners.

I don't know why you consider it intangibles to bash players when it's clear both are a different gravy.
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So, what are all these runs scored by them at a fantastic avg? Dint help their respective teams?
 
WengerOut said:
So, what are all these runs scored by them at a fantastic avg? Dint help their respective teams?
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They were valuable runs, but he rarely finishes games. The others are left to do the hitting once the RR is 8-10 an over.

The others are more dynamic than him, he's in the Amla mould and can put up 40-90 runs @ a SR of 80-90. When he tries to accelerate he usually gets out.
 
Aman said:
They were valuable runs, but he rarely finishes games. The others are left to do the hitting once the RR is 8-10 an over.

The others are more dynamic than him, he's in the Amla mould and can put up 40-90 runs @ a SR of 80-90. When he tries to accelerate he usually gets out.
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I think Kane has improved his hitting. Saw that in last IPL. He is just out of form. I don't think Root had that issue ever. Both are better than Smith who himself is very good. WC is not the start and end. If that is the case, Paolo Rossi is the greatest footballer ever. No one can match his exploits in KO.
 
WengerOut said:
I think Kane has improved his hitting. Saw that in last IPL. He is just out of form. I don't think Root had that issue ever. Both are better than Smith who himself is very good. WC is not the start and end. If that is the case, Paolo Rossi is the greatest footballer ever. No one can match his exploits in KO.
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It's more debatable with Smith, but he blows both away in Tests and has those WC performances to put him ahead of the other two.

Kohli beats Kane and Root both across formats.
 
Hopefully Guptill finds some form going into the world cup.

Can't afford to have both Guptill and Kane out of touch.
 
Martin is MoM - whatever little chance we had, he killed it inside 10-12 overs :( Hope boys make a better fight next time. It's Day game and I wish Ken won't put us in to test his new ball bowlers :)
 
Bangladesh would be much better for the rest of the series.

This is a much better balanced side.
 
8 wickets and 33 balls - it's called proper one sided game. Kiwis were probably safe till 332, so we were 100 short :(

Have to bat well next time and hopefully English Coach will pick another pacer instead of lengthening batting depth.
 
This WC is a great chance for England, NZ, and SA. They should try to grab with both hands. Next one in Asia would be tough for non Asian teams
 
Horrible performance by the Bangladesh players.

These guys are more experienced than the current Pakistani team and they fail like this.
 
this is such a boring kiwis side

so much better when it was under mccullum and jessie ryder was still playing
 
Haha! This hack Guptill couldn't last a couple of overs against the Indian attack and all these NZ commies are hyping him over the moon stating he's looking in great touch after a break! Let him face Shami, Bhuvi and Bumrah again and see how gets bowled in a matter of 10 balls!
 
Tyler Durden said:
Haha! This hack Guptill couldn't last a couple of overs against the Indian attack and all these NZ commies are hyping him over the moon stating he's looking in great touch after a break! Let him face Shami, Bhuvi and Bumrah again and see how gets bowled in a matter of 10 balls!
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He was out of form all summer and he just scored a ton finally of course they are going hype him.
 
Guys chill. BD should really be happy just to get invited to NZ for 3 Tests matches in preparation for WC. BD is not expected to BOSS NZ in NZ conditions, we are far from doing that yet. Nonetheless, I expect test to be more competitive as we have a far stronger test bowling lineup now.

Nz managed to blow away Ind top order 2 out of 3 times, and last year they crushed Pak 5-0, with one of the game Pak was 30/8 at one stage IIRC.
 
Space Cat said:
He was out of form all summer and he just scored a ton finally of course they are going hype him.
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He has problem against incoming deliveries that hones in on the stumps. But he is trying to redefine himself with a conservative approach. Nothing wrong with that. When in touch he is an absolute monster.
 
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