New Zealand's cancelled tour of Pakistan has the West's fingerprints all over it

[RedwoodOriginal]

In the wake of New Zealand abandoning the tour of Pakistan alot of people are confused as to what the reasons may be. While nothing is nor likely will be made clear, it has become patently obvious to me that this has the West's fingerprints all over it. And by West I mean the USA and its partners.

Firstly, let's make two things clear. One: this is not about security. South Africa, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, West Indies have all been here and have nothing but great things to say about the security. And once you provide someone with state-level security a terrorist attack becomes close to impossible to attempt. Because then you have law enforcement, intelligence, even certain arms of the military working in-tandem to provide security.

And two: New Zealand Cricket is absolutely blameless in this. They were simply doing what their government told them to do. And should not be the target of everyone's anger.

Blaming India is also something that many here would consider the obvious thing to do. But I don't personally believe India had any role in orchestrating this. And the biggest reason I believe this is, is because a country like New Zealand would likely take their intelligence with a grain of salt knowing their history with Pakistan.

But given the fact that the US is essentially big brother for Australia, New Zealand and England, their intelligence does count for something. New Zealand has close security co-operation with the US, Australia, Canada in the form of the Five Eyes. And geopolitically, many things have been in motion recently such as the establishment of Aukus, as well as the beefing up of the QUAD. Not to mention, the Taliban taking over in Afghanistan.

The US has been left with a bitter pill to swallow in Afghanistan and has trouble accepting that it was beaten and humiliated 10 years ago. And rather than taking ownership for its own failures, they like to put all the blame on Pakistan. Add to that, Pakistan's increasing closeness with China as the US ramps up its efforts to quell China's rise by forming and strengthening anti-China pacts.

In a situation like this its not hard to see the US orchestrating something like this. I wouldn't even call it orchestrating. All it likely took was a phone call from a low-level CIA operative to the NZ Intelligence Chief. And would have been enough to call off the tour.

What's troubling is that this will likely lead to England and Australia not coming here either. As both countries are even closer to the US geopolitically. And it wouldn't really matter what the ECB or CA have to say about it.

A slight silver lining might be that Windies, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Bangladesh might still tour in the future.

 

[faisaltep]

First time feeling happy on the way kiwis lost the wc final to England....it is a high time to re watch that match and enjoy the agony of kiwis with revived emotions

 

[Pakpak]

Whatever the case we should not play any series on a neutral ground. Enough of that. Either teams come or they don't.

What PPP did in 2009 with sh1t security must never be forgiven. Absolute morons who set back cricket for decades.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Whatever the case we should not play any series on a neutral ground. Enough of that. Either teams come or they don't.

What PPP did in 2009 with sh1t security must never be forgiven. Absolute morons who set back cricket for decades.

Agreed. If we can't play in Pakistan, I'd rather we don't play home series at all. Might seem like an emotional response to some but Pakistan has worked incredibly hard to fight terrorism and improve the security situation within the country. Going back to UAE would be like accepting that Pakistan is infact not safe for touring teams.

I think teams who have already toured Pakistan will continue coming here. And honestly I'm perfectly happy playing Australia, New Zealand and England in just the World Cups if it has to come to that.

There are some thing you need take a stand on. And this is one of them. The chances of a terrorist attack happening are likely higher in countries like England, New Zealand or Australia considering they don't provide visiting cricketers with this kind of security.

Asian teams always provide serious security because they fear the cricket-crazy fans getting too close. And Pakistan probably has the most comprehensive arrangements as compared to any country because of past events.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think that was obvious to me as soon as I heard the news. The cover stories are just for more gullible types who are easily duped. If you read the news re Pakistan since the Taliban won, the seething resentment has been pretty palpable.

That's not to say its unjustified, let's be clear about that. Perhaps the west is right to use cricket as a brickbat and a punishment for how they perceive Pakistan's role in the war in Afghanistan. Personally I don't think Pakistan had much choice but to work with whichever faction wasn't hostile to them on the border. Sadly that wasn't the previous Afghan govt.

I am now more worried that with sports and entertainment being curtailed in Pakistan, and more disengagement being encouraged by western powers, it will only widen the gulf. The West should pursue more inclusion, not distance. Show some belief in ourselves rather than back down.

 

[UzmanBeast]

In the wake of New Zealand abandoning the tour of Pakistan alot of people are confused as to what the reasons may be. While nothing is nor likely will be made clear, it has become patently obvious to me that this has the West's fingerprints all over it. And by West I mean the USA and its partners.

Firstly, let's make two things clear. One: this is not about security. South Africa, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, West Indies have all been here and have nothing but great things to say about the security. And once you provide someone with state-level security a terrorist attack becomes close to impossible to attempt. Because then you have law enforcement, intelligence, even certain arms of the military working in-tandem to provide security.

And two: New Zealand Cricket is absolutely blameless in this. They were simply doing what their government told them to do. And should not be the target of everyone's anger.

Blaming India is also something that many here would consider the obvious thing to do. But I don't personally believe India had any role in orchestrating this. And the biggest reason I believe this is, is because a country like New Zealand would likely take their intelligence with a grain of salt knowing their history with Pakistan.

But given the fact that the US is essentially big brother for Australia, New Zealand and England, their intelligence does count for something. New Zealand has close security co-operation with the US, Australia, Canada in the form of the Five Eyes. And geopolitically, many things have been in motion recently such as the establishment of Aukus, as well as the beefing up of the QUAD. Not to mention, the Taliban taking over in Afghanistan.

The US has been left with a bitter pill to swallow in Afghanistan and has trouble accepting that it was beaten and humiliated 10 years ago. And rather than taking ownership for its own failures, they like to put all the blame on Pakistan. Add to that, Pakistan's increasing closeness with China as the US ramps up its efforts to quell China's rise by forming and strengthening anti-China pacts.

In a situation like this its not hard to see the US orchestrating something like this. I wouldn't even call it orchestrating. All it likely took was a phone call from a low-level CIA operative to the NZ Intelligence Chief. And would have been enough to call off the tour.

What's troubling is that this will likely lead to England and Australia not coming here either. As both countries are even closer to the US geopolitically. And it wouldn't really matter what the ECB or CA have to say about it.

A slight silver lining might be that Windies, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Bangladesh might still tour in the future.

I disagree with something you've mentioned.

If a security threat was there, it was selfish and idiotic of New Zealand to not share this information with the PCB.

Let's assume the threat was true; New Zealand kept information that they knew could jeopardize the lives of Pakistani Cricketers, commentators, and staff at the stadium. Why?

Where is this evidence now? It has been hours, it only took minutes for this evidence to reach New Zealand but suddenly it takes hours for them to dispense it to PCB, the government, ISI, and all other security forces?

This has some seriously dirty stuff hidden inside, and it will come to the limelight soon.

So no, I don't agree with not blaming NZC. They are equally incompetent with not sharing this information and should be ashamed of themselves.

Their decision could have been made in accordance with the PCB; do they really think we're not gonna let them leave if they feel unsafe?

A joint statement would have been much better, ie: "Both parties have agreed that the circumstances for the tour are not ideal, and will be actively searching for a window to conduct this prestigious series again. We thank the supporters for their everlasting patience, and apologize for the discomfort."

You can keep the information to yourselves and release a full statement when you have enough evidence.

For all we know, New Zealand may have tarnished Pakistan's reputation based on a "what if" scenario.

So I'll say it again, NZC is equally as braindead to not give us any information.

 

[Local.Dada]

I think that was obvious to me as soon as I heard the news. The cover stories are just for more gullible types who are easily duped. If you read the news re Pakistan since the Taliban won, the seething resentment has been pretty palpable.

That's not to say its unjustified, let's be clear about that. Perhaps the west is right to use cricket as a brickbat and a punishment for how they perceive Pakistan's role in the war in Afghanistan. Personally I don't think Pakistan had much choice but to work with whichever faction wasn't hostile to them on the border. Sadly that wasn't the previous Afghan govt.

I am now more worried that with sports and entertainment being curtailed in Pakistan, and more disengagement being encouraged by western powers, it will only widen the gulf. The West should pursue more inclusion, not distance. Show some belief in ourselves rather than back down.

No one sabotages anyone. The West couldn’t do much against China’s advances and there have been multiple times India has ****** of the western powers too. In fact India and China have mutual trade that would make people think they are the best of friends. It all comes down to how much value you offer that is good value or nuisance value.

Right now right or wrong the West sees Pakistan govt role in propping up the Taliban.

The Taliban stands for everything that is opposite of the West. I see no right or wrong here because to me personally living under a Taliban regime would be like hell on earth and I would even shudder even at that thought and I am sure I am not in the minority there.

So there is that. Instead of victim mentality some self introspection is also required.

 

[Pakpak]

Agreed. If we can't play in Pakistan, I'd rather we don't play home series at all. Might seem like an emotional response to some but Pakistan has worked incredibly hard to fight terrorism and improve the security situation within the country. Going back to UAE would be like accepting that Pakistan is infact not safe for touring teams.

I think teams who have already toured Pakistan will continue coming here. And honestly I'm perfectly happy playing Australia, New Zealand and England in just the World Cups if it has to come to that.

There are some thing you need take a stand on. And this is one of them. The chances of a terrorist attack happening are likely higher in countries like England, New Zealand or Australia considering they don't provide visiting cricketers with this kind of security.

Asian teams always provide serious security because they fear the cricket-crazy fans getting too close. And Pakistan probably has the most comprehensive arrangements as compared to any country because of past events.

Same here, we barely play Australia, NZ much at all anyway. I can stomach not playing England either. Our board also needs to toughen up, going to England when they were there with their begging bowl in the summer after COVID should not have been done. We aren't getting anything in return either way so why bother?

 

[Saj]

No intelligence, no source of the intelligence, no evidence & no defining of the type of alleged threat was shared with Pakistan's security agencies or with the Pakistan Cricket Board by NZC or New Zealand's Government before they abandoned the tour of Pakistan.

This is puzzling as one would expect that some information would be shared by the NZC Board or their Government before they decided to pack their bags and leave.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think that was obvious to me as soon as I heard the news. The cover stories are just for more gullible types who are easily duped. If you read the news re Pakistan since the Taliban won, the seething resentment has been pretty palpable.

That's not to say its unjustified, let's be clear about that. Perhaps the west is right to use cricket as a brickbat and a punishment for how they perceive Pakistan's role in the war in Afghanistan. Personally I don't think Pakistan had much choice but to work with whichever faction wasn't hostile to them on the border. Sadly that wasn't the previous Afghan govt.

I am now more worried that with sports and entertainment being curtailed in Pakistan, and more disengagement being encouraged by western powers, it will only widen the gulf. The West should pursue more inclusion, not distance. Show some belief in ourselves rather than back down.

They've been doing this for 13 years. Now its just that they have had a full stop put on their entire decades long misadventure. And they just can't seem to swallow that bitter pill no matter how hard they try. And then Pakistan becomes the most easy and obvious scapegoat. But how can you hurt Pakistan now that you aren't even giving it aid?

Well, things like this work just fine it seems. And the troubling thing is that this is likely just the start.

At any rate, I agree wholeheartedly. Pakistan should be confident in all that they have done to improve the security situation of the country. If a team doesn't want to tour Pakistan than its too bad. But any home series should not be held outside Pakistan. I personally believe that teams who have already toured will still come. So if it comes down to playing New Zealand, Australia and England in just the World Cups, so be it.

 

[ahsan17]

No one sabotages anyone. The West couldn’t do much against China’s advances and there have been multiple times India has ****** of the western powers too. In fact India and China have mutual trade that would make people think they are the best of friends. It all comes down to how much value you offer that is good value or nuisance value.

Right now right or wrong the West sees Pakistan govt role in propping up the Taliban.

The Taliban stands for everything that is opposite of the West. I see no right or wrong here because to me personally living under a Taliban regime would be like hell on earth and I would even shudder even at that thought and I am sure I am not in the minority there.

So there is that. Instead of victim mentality some self introspection is also required.

Not sure if it's worth arguing with an Indian nationalist on thread like these, but here it goes. According to you lot, only Pakistan should self introspect. Pakistan treats someone like ****, Pakistan should self introspect. Someone treats Pakistan like ****, Pakistan should self introspect. Please take this concern trolling elsewhere.

 

[Pakpak]

I think that was obvious to me as soon as I heard the news. The cover stories are just for more gullible types who are easily duped. If you read the news re Pakistan since the Taliban won, the seething resentment has been pretty palpable.

That's not to say its unjustified, let's be clear about that. Perhaps the west is right to use cricket as a brickbat and a punishment for how they perceive Pakistan's role in the war in Afghanistan. Personally I don't think Pakistan had much choice but to work with whichever faction wasn't hostile to them on the border. Sadly that wasn't the previous Afghan govt.

I am now more worried that with sports and entertainment being curtailed in Pakistan, and more disengagement being encouraged by western powers, it will only widen the gulf. The West should pursue more inclusion, not distance. Show some belief in ourselves rather than back down.

All this makes me more satisfied we aren't reliant on the US compared to before. If this was 2001 we'd be begging the West again and selling ourselves out. Being reliant to a nation is always poor stuff but right now rather China than the US.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I disagree with something you've mentioned.

If a security threat was there, it was selfish and idiotic of New Zealand to not share this information with the PCB.

Let's assume the threat was true; New Zealand kept information that they knew could jeopardize the lives of Pakistani Cricketers, commentators, and staff at the stadium. Why?

Where is this evidence now? It has been hours, it only took minutes for this evidence to reach New Zealand but suddenly it takes hours for them to dispense it to PCB, the government, ISI, and all other security forces?

This has some seriously dirty stuff hidden inside, and it will come to the limelight soon.

So no, I don't agree with not blaming NZC. They are equally incompetent with not sharing this information and should be ashamed of themselves.

Their decision could have been made in accordance with the PCB; do they really think we're not gonna let them leave if they feel unsafe?

A joint statement would have been much better, ie: "Both parties have agreed that the circumstances for the tour are not ideal, and will be actively searching for a window to conduct this prestigious series again. We thank the supporters for their everlasting patience, and apologize for the discomfort."

You can keep the information to yourselves and release a full statement when you have enough evidence.

For all we know, New Zealand may have tarnished Pakistan's reputation based on a "what if" scenario.

So I'll say it again, NZC is equally as braindead to not give us any information.

I disagree. NZC is powerless in this. How can they go against their government or ask them to reveal something that NZ's government would consider classified information? It's out of their hands. And again, I don't see them as incompetent either because they likely got this order at the last second too.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

No intelligence, no source of the intelligence, no evidence & no defining of the type of alleged threat was shared with Pakistan's security agencies or with the Pakistan Cricket Board by NZC or New Zealand's Government before they abandoned the tour of Pakistan.

This is puzzling as one would expect that some information would be shared by the NZC Board or their Government before they decided to pack their bags and leave.

I only wonder what would have happened if Pakistan had done the same. Not only would the government be crucified by its own people, but also by the entire international cricket community.

And while certainly they don't have a hand in this or anything their silence is telling. As are the comments of certain self-proclaimed pundits like Vaughan who point towards Pakistan "improving internal security" rather than asking New Zealand to substantiate its claims.

 

[iniqbal223]

Some of these NZ players might have gotten IPL contracts at the last minute
The easiest for them to abandon was to tell them its COVID, but that would sabotage their IPL participation

 

[wajid]

No intelligence, no source of the intelligence, no evidence & no defining of the type of alleged threat was shared with Pakistan's security agencies or with the Pakistan Cricket Board by NZC or New Zealand's Government before they abandoned the tour of Pakistan.

This is puzzling as one would expect that some information would be shared by the NZC Board or their Government before they decided to pack their bags and leave.

What are the ICC rules on this? Can we force them to share their intelligence info?

 

[Afzal_K]

Blaming BCCI and India is total bacho wali baat, lot of PPer's gone bonkers today with the blame game.
A crazy man shot Muslims inside a Mosque in NZ, they probably got some last minute tip of revenge - even though there is a world class security. I agree to a certain extent that being with the West could be an angle but it's an open secret that ISI and Taliban are on friendly terms

Security etc are still humans, you can brainwash anyone. Indira Gandhi was shotby her own bodyguard's - anything is possible

NZ should invite Pakistan to play instead to make peace

 

[Shafi]

As expected it was staged to defame us by doing last minute drama. NZ is ally of West. Poor acting.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Same here, we barely play Australia, NZ much at all anyway. I can stomach not playing England either. Our board also needs to toughen up, going to England when they were there with their begging bowl in the summer after COVID should not have been done. We aren't getting anything in return either way so why bother?

I think Pakistan can hold a tough line on England if it comes to that. Because Pakistan is a team that always draws crowds and viewers in England. If England does the same it will be a very tough situation for their board to deal with as relations between the ECB and the PCB have been very good since last year. The ECB has thanked PCB on numerous occasions and just a few days ago were talking about sending a full-strength squad to Pakistan.

Let's see what happens. But I really hope the PCB stands tough on this issue. It simply has to.

 

[Titan24]

No intelligence, no source of the intelligence, no evidence & no defining of the type of alleged threat was shared with Pakistan's security agencies or with the Pakistan Cricket Board by NZC or New Zealand's Government before they abandoned the tour of Pakistan.

This is puzzling as one would expect that some information would be shared by the NZC Board or their Government before they decided to pack their bags and leave.

One of the weirdest I have seen with regards to cricket. Definitely puzzling stuff.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Blaming BCCI and India is total bacho wali baat, lot of PPer's gone bonkers today with the blame game.
A crazy man shot Muslims inside a Mosque in NZ, they probably got some last minute tip of revenge - even though there is a world class security. I agree to a certain extent that being with the West could be an angle but it's an open secret that ISI and Taliban are on friendly terms

Security etc are still humans, you can brainwash anyone. Indira Gandhi was shotby her own bodyguard's - anything is possible

NZ should invite Pakistan to play instead to make peace

ISI and Taliban have been on friendly terms since the 1990s. This is nothing new.

And personally, I'd be much more happy if we just didn't tour New Zealand at all until they come to Pakistan.

 

[street cricketer]

Akhtar sort of hinted the same in his video. That a lot of countries aren't happy with Pakistan with what happened in Afghanistan and that Pakistan should get ready to face tough times ahead but not get cowed down.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but NZ keeping mum about the sudden security threat leaves a lot to imagination. This decision by NZ to cancel the tour is a result of direct orders from their own government and security agency. Personally I don't think India is influential enough to bully NZ's government as a country, sure BCCI can bully their cricket board but India as a country doesn't have the same clout of China or US to bully other wealthier nations.

 

[PakHammer]

Good Riddance. Either you bring you first team or don't come at all. Pointless exercise as this New Zealand C team was not the first international team playing in Pakistan since we had more countries touring in the last couple of years.

Just a shame the other Western countries like Australia and England will have found their golden excuse not to tour Pakistan.

 

[Local.Dada]

Akhtar sort of hinted the same in his video. That a lot of countries aren't happy with Pakistan with what happened in Afghanistan and that Pakistan should get ready to face tough times ahead but not get cowed down.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but NZ keeping mum about the sudden security threat leaves a lot to imagination. This decision by NZ to cancel the tour is a result of direct orders from their own government and security agency. Personally I don't think India is influential enough to bully NZ's government as a country, sure BCCI can bully their cricket board but India as a country doesn't have the same clout of China or US to bully other wealthier nations.

Good post but you can try to articulate in a 100 different ways but I think people have made up their mind to have a go at India for this. So no point.

I mean Jacinda Ardern and Modi there can’t be 2 polar opposite world leaders at this moment in terms of semantics but it’s easier to go after the low hanging fruit which is India/Indian govt and BCCI in this case because I don’t think fans don’t know how to express their frustration with this incident.

 

[wajid]

I love it when Indians take the moral high ground and try to be rational, calm, cool dudes.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Akhtar sort of hinted the same in his video. That a lot of countries aren't happy with Pakistan with what happened in Afghanistan and that Pakistan should get ready to face tough times ahead but not get cowed down.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but NZ keeping mum about the sudden security threat leaves a lot to imagination. This decision by NZ to cancel the tour is a result of direct orders from their own government and security agency. Personally I don't think India is influential enough to bully NZ's government as a country, sure BCCI can bully their cricket board but India as a country doesn't have the same clout of China or US to bully other wealthier nations.

Yeah I felt the same way. Blaming India is a fairly obvious thing for many people to do here, but one that does not exactly make alot of sense.

The US though is the prime superpower on the planet. And I'm not even saying that people in their government knew or cared about this. This seems like something that someone in the CIA would have thought about and executed rather casually, because even a casual phone call from the US is enough to get a country like New Zealand to do something like this. No evidence is needed.

 

[Abu_Hamza]

U welcome Taliban regime in Afghanistan and expect western countries to tour Pakistan at the same time. Forget it. Australia took a stance against Taliban by cancelling the test match and now NZ by snubbing Pak who are friends with Taliban. Dont forget what Antony Blinken said that they are reviewing their relationship with Pak as US has got the impression that on one side Pak acted to be an ally of US but at the same time it was helping Taliban regularly with everything to conquer Afghanistan. The influence of US on other westeren countries is huge and China also cant do anything regarding this.

 

[UzmanBeast]

I disagree. NZC is powerless in this. How can they go against their government or ask them to reveal something that NZ's government would consider classified information? It's out of their hands. And again, I don't see them as incompetent either because they likely got this order at the last second too.

Both the NZ government and NZC had an obligation to tell PCB and the Pakistan government what information they received.

If the lives of players were at risks, both parties deserved to be treated as equals. Both teams have players, the lives of one set are not valued at a greater price than the lives of another set.

It was within their hands. What right does the NZ government have to hide information from Pakistan, the country hosting them?

There was a dearth of communication which cannot be ignored; both NZ government and their cricket board were incompetent with regards to communicating with Pakistan.

If there was a security threat, they needed to inform ISI and the army to take steps for their safe departure.

The fact that they still refuse to share the information points to a limited set of outcomes:
1.) They are unsure if the evidence was even reliable, and it could have been an over-reaction.

2.) The evidence is a hoax and was a political decision (especially since the New Zealand prime minister was so conveniently vocal about this issue when she didn't care to talk about cricket when the Pakistan team was enduring struggles in New Zealand).

3.) The security threat was legitimate and New Zealand took the precautions but still failed to do their part in disclosing the information.

If you'll notice, all options point to the fact that New Zealand did not trust Pakistan enough to inform us.

Keeping us in the dark cannot be forgiven.

 

[Afzal_K]

Was a DRS not being there a security threat

 

[Lonewarrior]

India has nothing to do with it .
its all about US/UK false intel. NZ just followed thre intel without any proof.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Both the NZ government and NZC had an obligation to tell PCB and the Pakistan government what information they received.

If the lives of players were at risks, both parties deserved to be treated as equals. Both teams have players, the lives of one set are not valued at a greater price than the lives of another set.

It was within their hands. What right does the NZ government have to hide information from Pakistan, the country hosting them?

There was a dearth of communication which cannot be ignored; both NZ government and their cricket board were incompetent with regards to communicating with Pakistan.

If there was a security threat, they needed to inform ISI and the army to take steps for their safe departure.

The fact that they still refuse to share the information points to a limited set of outcomes:
1.) They are unsure if the evidence was even reliable, and it could have been an over-reaction.

2.) The evidence is a hoax and was a political decision (especially since the New Zealand prime minister was so conveniently vocal about this issue when she didn't care to talk about cricket when the Pakistan team was enduring struggles in New Zealand).

3.) The security threat was legitimate and New Zealand took the precautions but still failed to do their part in disclosing the information.

If you'll notice, all options point to the fact that New Zealand did not trust Pakistan enough to inform us.

Keeping us in the dark cannot be forgiven.

I fully blame their government. And agree with most of what you said. But at the end of the day I just don't see what their board could have done if the order came in at the last minute. The board and the players are simply following the directives that came from above.

 

[Major]

) )

Oh bhai, USA doesnt do such dumb things. For gods sake

 

[Lonewarrior]

) )

Oh bhai, USA doesnt do such dumb things. For gods sake

ever heard about 5 eyes ? do some research ...... its to be believe that false Intel comes from them .....

 

[wajid]

U welcome Taliban regime in Afghanistan and expect western countries to tour Pakistan at the same time. Forget it. Australia took a stance against Taliban by cancelling the test match and now NZ by snubbing Pak who are friends with Taliban. Dont forget what Antony Blinken said that they are reviewing their relationship with Pak as US has got the impression that on one side Pak acted to be an ally of US but at the same time it was helping Taliban regularly with everything to conquer Afghanistan. The influence of US on other westeren countries is huge and China also cant do anything regarding this.

Big deal. News flash. Thanks you finally reached there. US, however, knew this for more than 2 decades.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

) )

Oh bhai, USA doesnt do such dumb things. For gods sake

You mean dumb things like deposing democratically elected governments in small and unimportant Latin American countries? If you read history you will learn they have done far dumber things all over the world.

And you need to read the post more clearly. I didn't say this is something that was planned, discussed or even in the knowledge of high levels of their government. This is the kind of thing that a branch or division of the CIA would likely do. And rather easily.

 

[wajid]

) )

Oh bhai, USA doesnt do such dumb things. For gods sake

Yeah. Iraq’s chemical weapons intel was also solid. Just the fact that nothing was ever found and intel guys themselves say that it was politically motivated, nothing else.

:)

On a side note, Trump also trolled CIA for this.

 

[Major]

ever heard about 5 eyes ? do some research ...... its to be believe that false Intel comes from them .....

If USA has an issue with Pakistan, it can dealt with those issues directly by placing economic sanctions and what not regarding the Taliban fiasco.

USA does not make false calls regarding cancelling a cricket tour.

Also if there was a call from CIA, than it would be a credible one, and if CIA made a call, than Pakistanis are in more trouble and it proves we are state that is not secure.

USA doesnt get involve in such things or create hoax. If you guys say India probably gave a hoax intel than that I could believe because that is the India level of things. Not USA...

 

[Major]

Yeah. Iraq’s chemical weapons intel was also solid. Just the fact that nothing was ever found and intel guys themselves say that it was politically motivated, nothing else.

New Zealand canceling the tour is equivalent to Saddams Nuclear weapons? )

 

[Abu_Hamza]

Big deal. News flash. Thanks you finally reached there. US, however, knew this for more than 2 decades.

But US has already started to built pressure on PAK by not taking calls from Imran Khan. They have given them two options that either Pak is with them or with Taliban. Joed Biden is being called out from all corners due to this. He knows what blunder has US done. And Imran khan openly supporting Taliban has infuriated US.

 

[Major]

You mean dumb things like deposing democratically elected governments in small and unimportant Latin American countries? If you read history you will learn they have done far dumber things all over the world.

And you need to read the post more clearly. I didn't say this is something that was planned, discussed or even in the knowledge of high levels of their government. This is the kind of thing that a branch or division of the CIA would likely do. And rather easily.

You guys probably watching to many tv shows where there is govt conspiracy going on.

USA or CIA doesnt get involve in such things.

Joe Biden to William Burns of CIA.

" Those Pakistanis have backed the Taliban... I know, they are playing some cricket with a country called New Zealand. Lets make a hoax phone call and get cricket banned in Pakistan"

Yeh, doesn't work that way.

If there was CIA intelligence, than that report has more credibility than our Punjab police intelligence. At that point I would be concerned. But they dont make hoax calls internationally for gods sake.

 

[Mp812]

What are the ICC rules on this? Can we force them to share their intelligence info?

Security assesment is fluid siituation scenario. It depends on information analysis and probably some last moment human intel changes the level from green to red.
As for sharing, no security agency or for that matter cops of any country dont give out information that can endanger their informers.
What do you expect them to say " We got our info from our informer who is undercover in xyz terror outfit and he was told about the plot by xyz group chief just 2 hours ago that today at hh:mm we do this"

For some others blaming USA/Western powers...I say guys think logically... if for them a cancelled cricket tour holds much value politically?
If they really wanted to hurt ... FATF backlisting is enough to hurt economy as well as many other things for Pakistan...and probably easier to implement?

 

[Abu_Hamza]

First it should be cleared that who was behind this USA or India or both so that NZC could be taken to ICC for compensation.

 

[wajid]

New Zealand canceling the tour is equivalent to Saddams Nuclear weapons? )

Not nuclear, chemical weapons. And yes, CIA has no idea about misinformation, fake news and propaganda. Just that their ex chiefs and employees have written books on the subject and teach grad courses on it.

Also, Pakistan is weak so need to misinform. But you k or Cuba, Haiti and Venezuela are very powerful. For them there needs to be entire intelligence sections for misinformation

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

No DRS and it not being part of WCSL was the red flag which PCB and Pakistani fans missed

 

[Obeid]

) )

Oh bhai, USA doesnt do such dumb things. For gods sake

LOL bruh. I'm an American. A proud one. But the US has done "dumb" things internationally for decades. Not saying they have any hand in this but "dumber" things have turned out true in the past.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

If USA has an issue with Pakistan, it can dealt with those issues directly by placing economic sanctions and what not regarding the Taliban fiasco.

USA does not make false calls regarding cancelling a cricket tour.

Also if there was a call from CIA, than it would be a credible one, and if CIA made a call, than Pakistanis are in more trouble and it proves we are state that is not secure.

USA doesnt get involve in such things or create hoax. If you guys say India probably gave a hoax intel than that I could believe because that is the India level of things. Not USA...

Bro, you really need a history lesson. The US has been terrorizing the entire planet with clandestine activities since the Cold War. And not even countries that even really matter to them, or can harm them. But countries like Guatemala, Indonesia, Cuba. The CIA has deposed democratically elected govts all over the planet and either created or propped up terrorists all over the world, just for their narrow short-term gains. Why wouldn't they do something like this?

Maybe read-up on what Noam Chomsky has been writing and saying in the last 50 years if you are so in the dark about the world policeman role the US has played since it became a superpower in the Post World War II world.

 

[Lonewarrior]

But US has already started to built pressure on PAK by not taking calls from Imran Khan. They have given them two options that either Pak is with them or with Taliban. Joed Biden is being called out from all corners due to this. He knows what blunder has US done. And Imran khan openly supporting Taliban has infuriated US.

we have been under pressure since 9/11 .... its nothing new, old US tactics .... i can bet here that US is in no position to sanction Pakistan , its wishful thinking of our neighbours and it maybe in the minds of some of thre congressmen but the ground realities are not allowing them to do this kind of action .....

 

[Lonewarrior]

First it should be cleared that who was behind this USA or India or both so that NZC could be taken to ICC for compensation.

dont try to troll over here, and dont flatter yourself, India has nothing to do with it. its US/UK intel nexus of false intel ......

 

[Major]

Bro, you really need a history lesson. The US has been terrorizing the entire planet with clandestine activities since the Cold War. And not even countries that even really matter to them, or can harm them. But countries like Guatemala, Indonesia, Cuba. The CIA has deposed democratically elected govts all over the planet and either created or propped up terrorists all over the world, just for their narrow short-term gains. Why wouldn't they do something like this?

Maybe read-up on what Noam Chomsky has been writing and saying in the last 50 years if you are so in the dark about the world policeman role the US has played since it became a superpower in the Post World War II world.

Like i said before, saying that CIA made a Hoax call to call of a cricket series makes no sense.

Yes, if they did make a call, than it wont be hoax but would mean that there was a relevent threat.

But to say that oh Pakistan is with Taliban lets make a hoax call to cancel their tour, thats just naive thinking.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

You guys probably watching to many tv shows where there is govt conspiracy going on.

USA or CIA doesnt get involve in such things.

Joe Biden to William Burns of CIA.

" Those Pakistanis have backed the Taliban... I know, they are playing some cricket with a country called New Zealand. Lets make a hoax phone call and get cricket banned in Pakistan"

Yeh, doesn't work that way.

If there was CIA intelligence, than that report has more credibility than our Punjab police intelligence. At that point I would be concerned. But they dont make hoax calls internationally for gods sake.

Again, you seem completely oblivious to both history and my argument. a) The US has done far worse, it has committed atrocities in numerous countries and not even taken credit for them because they were orchestrated clandestinely. b) Why are you bringing Biden and Burns into this when I specifically said this is something that likely occured on the lower levels of the CIA, an organization that operates globally from little-known Latin American and African countries to countries like Pakistan and Hong Kong.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Like i said before, saying that CIA made a Hoax call to call of a cricket series makes no sense.

Yes, if they did make a call, than it wont be hoax but would mean that there was a relevent threat.

But to say that oh Pakistan is with Taliban lets make a hoax call to cancel their tour, thats just naive thinking.

No you are naiive to think that the CIA wouldn't do this when their entire track record is based on meddling in the affairs of other countries, propping up terrorists and acting covertly against anyone or anything that is a threat to US interests.

 

[Major]

No you are naiive to think that the CIA wouldn't do this when their entire track record is based on meddling in the affairs of other countries, propping up terrorists and acting covertly against anyone or anything that is a threat to US interests.

Yes i am naïve that i dont believe in a conspiracy where CIA decided to get any involve and cancel a cricket tour.

How would hoaxing a cricket series even serve them
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] you should read this thread

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Security assesment is fluid siituation scenario. It depends on information analysis and probably some last moment human intel changes the level from green to red.
As for sharing, no security agency or for that matter cops of any country dont give out information that can endanger their informers.
What do you expect them to say " We got our info from our informer who is undercover in xyz terror outfit and he was told about the plot by xyz group chief just 2 hours ago that today at hh:mm we do this"

For some others blaming USA/Western powers...I say guys think logically... if for them a cancelled cricket tour holds much value politically?
If they really wanted to hurt ... FATF backlisting is enough to hurt economy as well as many other things for Pakistan...and probably easier to implement?

On what grounds will they blacklist us when we have taken concrete actions against banned groups? Even the West has to follow some rules to make the people believe that this international system that they have created is not a sham that largely works to benefit them.

The only countries on the blacklist are North Korea and Iran. Putting Pakistan on the blacklist would be putting it on par with them which can't happen because the West still needs Pakistan.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes i am naïve that i dont believe in a conspiracy where CIA decided to get any involve and cancel a cricket tour.

How would hoaxing a cricket series even serve them
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] you should read this thread

No you're naive because you are completely oblivious to history. And what's sad is that rather than accepting that you are not fully aware of everything the CIA has done in the last 70 years, you're just saying why would the CIA do it?

Why did the CIA say there were WMDs in Iraq when there obviously weren't? That was a high level example but what's to say the CIA hasn't done countless covert things on lower levels that never even made the news?

 

[Last Monetarist]

There's a lot of naivete about Pakistan's dealing with western countries while being in China's pocket, especially in the aftermath of the virus. Isolation should be the least of the country's worries, choose the clowns one gets in bed with carefully. Needlessly aggressive posturing and doing the CCP's bidding should have a price.

While I sympathize fully with the PCB and the country's cricketers for what has transpired, I can't in good conscience blame the west given Pakistan's Chinese appeasement policy.

 

[Major]

No you're naive because you are completely oblivious to history. And what's sad is that rather than accepting that you are not fully aware of everything the CIA has done in the last 70 years, you're just saying why would the CIA do it?

Why did the CIA say there were WMDs in Iraq when there obviously weren't? That was a high level example but what's to say the CIA hasn't done countless covert things on lower levels that never even made the news?

Yes i am naïve because i dont believe in dumb conspiracy theorys.

Like i said, it makes no sense at all no matter how hard you try that CIA is making hoax calls all around the world.

it serves no purpose.

Someone should make a thread about Illuminati conspiracy against Pakistan.

 

[Abu_Hamza]

dont try to troll over here, and dont flatter yourself, India has nothing to do with it. its US/UK intel nexus of false intel ......

Well Christian Turner has denied on twitter that UK high commission has any involvement in this.

 

[ahsan17]

Yes i am naïve because i dont believe in dumb conspiracy theorys.

Like i said, it makes no sense at all no matter how hard you try that CIA is making hoax calls all around the world.

it serves no purpose.

Someone should make a thread about Illuminati conspiracy against Pakistan.

It's literally not a conspiracy theory if there's a ton of precedence around it.

 

[SangasCoverDrive]

There's a lot of naivete about Pakistan's dealing with western countries while being in China's pocket, especially in the aftermath of the virus. Isolation should be the least of the country's worries, choose the clowns one gets in bed with carefully. Needlessly aggressive posturing and doing the CCP's bidding should have a price.

While I sympathize fully with the PCB and the country's cricketers for what has transpired, I can't in good conscience blame the west given Pakistan's Chinese appeasement policy.

Ever since the formation of Pakistan, every problem of the country has been blamed to West

 

[Major]

Ever since the formation of Pakistan, every problem of the country has been blamed to West

yup. Its always a conspiracy against Pakistan.

we apply such theories that we end up losing credibility. Like seriously, we have people thinking that CIA had planned to make hoax calls.

 

[OneManShow]

) )

Oh bhai, USA doesnt do such dumb things. For gods sake

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58604655

Sure never does

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Yes i am naïve because i dont believe in dumb conspiracy theorys.

Like i said, it makes no sense at all no matter how hard you try that CIA is making hoax calls all around the world.

it serves no purpose.

Someone should make a thread about Illuminati conspiracy against Pakistan.

You can keep living in a fantasy world all you want. But common sense points towards something else. I've given reasons why that might be the case. Not my fault if you lack knowledge about history and present circumstances.

 

[Bewal Express]

Yes i am naïve because i dont believe in dumb conspiracy theorys.

Like i said, it makes no sense at all no matter how hard you try that CIA is making hoax calls all around the world.

it serves no purpose.

Someone should make a thread about Illuminati conspiracy against Pakistan.

And you believe out of no where a threat is made. Btw weren't you the guy jumping up and down about the Afg Ambassador daughter, until you got humiliated when the truth came out. Did you apologise

 

[OneManShow]

The reported drone strike was meant to have killed 10 terrorists. The US made a massive hoohaa about it. They only admitted fault after journalists delved deeper into the strike and called the US **. But then Major ain't about the truth, it's just anything to disparage Pakistan. Really do question the naivete of people at times.

 

[Bewal Express]

There's a lot of naivete about Pakistan's dealing with western countries while being in China's pocket, especially in the aftermath of the virus. Isolation should be the least of the country's worries, choose the clowns one gets in bed with carefully. Needlessly aggressive posturing and doing the CCP's bidding should have a price.

While I sympathize fully with the PCB and the country's cricketers for what has transpired, I can't in good conscience blame the west given Pakistan's Chinese appeasement policy.

But the West has abandoned PK before and the Chinese friendship is desperately needed. And i am a guy that hates the Chinese as much as all the others.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

There's a lot of naivete about Pakistan's dealing with western countries while being in China's pocket, especially in the aftermath of the virus. Isolation should be the least of the country's worries, choose the clowns one gets in bed with carefully. Needlessly aggressive posturing and doing the CCP's bidding should have a price.

While I sympathize fully with the PCB and the country's cricketers for what has transpired, I can't in good conscience blame the west given Pakistan's Chinese appeasement policy.

You could make that argument and not even be wrong. But what makes you think that being closely aligned with China isn't in Pakistan's long-term strategic interests, while aligning with the West is?

Pakistan may not be entirely blameless in the events that have transpired in the region since 1979 but it has largely been a victim of the machinations of the US and its western allies, instead of a scapegoat.

Meanwhile the West has essentially lit up the entire Middle East and Afghanistan in flames and somehow we are supposed to be sympathetic to their problems? And that's just in the Post Cold War world order. China hasn't done one-tenth of what the US and the West has done all over the world since the end of the second World War.

 

[Bewal Express]

You guys probably watching to many tv shows where there is govt conspiracy going on.

USA or CIA doesnt get involve in such things.

Joe Biden to William Burns of CIA.

" Those Pakistanis have backed the Taliban... I know, they are playing some cricket with a country called New Zealand. Lets make a hoax phone call and get cricket banned in Pakistan"

Yeh, doesn't work that way.

If there was CIA intelligence, than that report has more credibility than our Punjab police intelligence. At that point I would be concerned. But they dont make hoax calls internationally for gods sake.

You seem too simple for your own good.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What's most surprising to me is that nobody has even bothered to question New Zealand's claims. How could they be wrong after they cancelled the tour on hearsay and did not even give proper details to the PCB on why they did it?

Just goes to show how deeply the Western media has brainwashed people. That when a news like this comes out so many people automatically believe it, rather than questioning it. Why? Because that's the perception of Pakistan and New Zealand that exists in the global media.

Oh, and before some of you accuse me of spreading conspiracies about the Western media, take the time to read Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media. Great book that will illuminate you all, just as it has illuminated me.

 

[Major]

You seem too simple for your own good.

coming from a poster who thinks CIA was involved in a cricket conspiracy from all the things in the world

 

[Lonewarrior]

Well Christian Turner has denied on twitter that UK high commission has any involvement in this.

they can deny all they want, we have our own intel to confirm it ......

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

they can deny all they want, we have our own intel to confirm it ......

He probably doesn't even know about it. This is not the kind of things that government officials, diplomats or politicians are informed about.

 

[Major]

He probably doesn't even know about it. This is not the kind of things that government officials, diplomats or politicians are informed about.

now you are claiming that the British High Comissioner would have no idea if there was such conspraicy in place.

 

[UzmanBeast]

I fully blame their government. And agree with most of what you said. But at the end of the day I just don't see what their board could have done if the order came in at the last minute. The board and the players are simply following the directives that came from above.

I hope that the PCB makes a statement to address the situation with the ground reality and the abrupt nature of New Zealand'z departure.

A statement needs to clarify what has happened.

 

[Bewal Express]

coming from a poster who thinks CIA was involved in a cricket conspiracy from all the things in the world

Nothing to do with cricket and everything about taking revenge after their Afg humiliation. Maybe you can enlighten me as to where NZ got their information from because NZ has no intelligence capacity in PK or in Asia. As I said you are too simple for your own good.

 

[Bewal Express]

now you are claiming that the British High Comissioner would have no idea if there was such conspraicy in place.

You do know that not every thing is shared with everyone. Remember books will be written and books have to be sold.

 

[wajid]

Yes i am naïve because i dont believe in dumb conspiracy theorys.

Like i said, it makes no sense at all no matter how hard you try that CIA is making hoax calls all around the world.

it serves no purpose.

Someone should make a thread about Illuminati conspiracy against Pakistan.

Agree. Not likely. But not impossible either. Just need to see how events unfold and whether we get any concrete info on threat.

 

[Third Man]

If USA has an issue with Pakistan, it can dealt with those issues directly by placing economic sanctions and what not regarding the Taliban fiasco.

USA does not make false calls regarding cancelling a cricket tour.

Also if there was a call from CIA, than it would be a credible one, and if CIA made a call, than Pakistanis are in more trouble and it proves we are state that is not secure.

USA doesnt get involve in such things or create hoax. If you guys say India probably gave a hoax intel than that I could believe because that is the India level of things. Not USA...

Wow! You don't know much about the US or the CIA, do you. The CIA has been disseminating "credible intelligence" for decades. In fact, they tried hard to creat "intelligence" to link Trump to russia but failed miserably.

And you forget the mother of all "credible intelligences"; the Iraq WMD's. The CIA is one of the shadiest organisations in the world. Read up a bit, mate.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

now you are claiming that the British High Comissioner would have no idea if there was such conspraicy in place.

Bro, if you don't believe it just ignore the comment.

What are you trying to achieve by making sarcastic replies? Do you think you will be able to change my opinion by making facepalm emojis?

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I hope that the PCB makes a statement to address the situation with the ground reality and the abrupt nature of New Zealand'z departure.

A statement needs to clarify what has happened.

Yeah I feel too feel like they need to make another statement in the coming days. A more detailed clarification is needed.

 

[Third Man]

If USA has an issue with Pakistan, it can dealt with those issues directly by placing economic sanctions and what not regarding the Taliban fiasco.

USA does not make false calls regarding cancelling a cricket tour.

Also if there was a call from CIA, than it would be a credible one, and if CIA made a call, than Pakistanis are in more trouble and it proves we are state that is not secure.

USA doesnt get involve in such things or create hoax. If you guys say India probably gave a hoax intel than that I could believe because that is the India level of things. Not USA...

And denying countries international sports doesn't count as sanctions?