"No one knows the art of exploiting the new ball better than me" : Mohammad Asif

[www787]

There are a few differences between Warne and Asif, Warne has never been to jail for criminal offences or been banned by the ICC. Warne has never tested positive to performance enhancing drugs or even been caught smuggling drugs into another country. Warne has never been linked to match fixers like Asif has so all in all your feeble attempt to make Asif look similar to Warne is just as desperate as your attempt to portray Asif as the greatest bowler to walk the earth.

He is and was better than most during his playing and current Australian bowlers.

 

[www787]

As a famous Mr Psychiatrist would tend to agree with me.

"The longer you keep feeding people delusions, the stronger they get. There becomes a point those delusions become mass hysteria, feeding the need for satiating one's desires. It is essential that those delusions are stopped at their source, because mass hysteria is often the cause of deep disappointment. Droves of people believing in something that is simply not true, but following the principle of folie a deux. We see that typically in new found religion and there is need to believe in something greater than it is, because of continual frustration and lack of hope. Religion, however can be a motivator, so there is some respite. But what happens when the similar droves of people start backing nobodies at the level of government, at the level of leadership, at the level of national security? Utter destruction.

I repeat the only solution to such is to stop such delusions at the source.

Let me try.

Asif is a good bowler WHO IS UNFIT/FIT (unknown) who played most of his matches in extremely green wickets of Pakistan and last played international cricket 6 years ago. If that bowler is equivalent to McGrath , better than Hazelwood, and combined better than Wasim , Waqar and Donald, then you people get to decide reading above. Is he?

Are you all falling for the same trap as the guy who paraded his trumpet?

Make up your own mind instead of following a parrot.

Thanks and Amen.

Why does you every post come across as condescending? Give an impression of know it all and holier than thou, which is "yuck"

Let me try it, most are talking about Asif after his performance in QEA tournaments.

 

[Gilly]

He is and was better than most during his playing and current Australian bowlers.

Yes of course he was, the greatest bowler to ever walk the earth Asif is. I just don't understand why the ICC rankings don't have him at number 1.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Why does you every post come across as condescending? Give an impression of know it all and holier than thou, which is "yuck"

Let me try it, most are talking about Asif after his performance in QEA tournaments.

It comes off as condescending because you choose it too.

On topic, how can a bowler who performed in QEA be considered better than everyone in the world?

 

[www787]

Yes of course he was, the greatest bowler to ever walk the earth Asif is. I just don't understand why the ICC rankings don't have him at number 1.

Seem like I've hit the nerve by calling him "better" than current Australian bowlers. But since English is your first language you shouldn't have any difficulty in differentiating between "better" and "greatest".

I'm sure there is thread already exist regarding who was the greatest bowler ever.

 

[Gilly]

Seem like I've hit the nerve by calling him "better" than current Australian bowlers. But since English is your first language you shouldn't have any difficulty in differentiating between "better" and "greatest".

I'm sure there is thread already exist regarding who was the greatest bowler ever.

Ok then show me what evidence you have to show that Asif is better than any current Australian bowler.

 

[yasir]

Was your faith in him also justified when he dragged your country's name through mud four different times? Let me guess, you also talk a lot against corruption in the country and support Imran because he stands against corruption?

I don't get this moral politics, which people keep bringing up...First off, What is so special about Country?? - Country has respect in Cricket not because of its size or land or whatever other metadata is associated with Country, but because of these players... If there was no Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Sohaib, why would anybody remember or respected Pakistani fast bowling brand of Cricket?? - If there was no LLyod, VIV, Marshal, Holding, why would people talk about WI dream era of 70s/80s??? - These players make Country proud not the other way around... Who knows Pakistan name in Track and field, Country still is same size(200M), but nobody mention Pakistan when it comes to Track and Field events, Are our Track and field athletics less patriots or more corrupt??

I am not saying Asif is saint, but he has to be treated fairly as well... If PCB does not want to select him because of his past behavior, well why not spell it out clearly. I have not seen statements from PCB or ICC that Asif cannot be selected since he did X, Y and Z despite 5 years punishment...Just tell the fans in clear words, that he will never be selected no matter how good he is, because of past...Why bring his past when on merit he is head and shoulder above others, that shows corruption of officials more so than Asif...Why he is playing in FC final, if he is not illegible, he might end up been MOM

 

[www787]

It comes off as condescending because you choose it too.

On topic, how can a bowler who performed in QEA be considered better than everyone in the world?

If I knew you any better I'd say you are over compensating for something.

most are making his case to get select after his performance in QEA, Pakistan only has that to measure a player performance to eligible for selection. What else criteria do you prefer?

 

[www787]

Ok then show me what evidence you have to show that Asif is better than any current Australian bowler.

Haha as if all of your opinion had been evidence based and had no patriotic bias in it.

 

[Cryin Out Loud]

I'm not Pakistani.

And as a resident of Australia, I can tell you that Mohammad Asif's rap sheet is basically identical to Shane Warne's..................

ROTFLMAO. Now I've heard it all.

I'd like to suggest that it's more effective when you cite Asif's recent performance to make his case.

 

[Gilly]

Haha as if all of your opinion had been evidence based and had no patriotic bias in it.

I guess that means you have nothing to offer.

 

[Zak_Fan]

He should use this art to outbowl domestic Pakistani bowlers first.

 

[www787]

I guess that means you have nothing to offer.

I did, as I previously stated in my opinion, Asif is "better" than current Australian bowlers. Not the "greatest", better.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

If I knew you any better I'd say you are over compensating for something.

most are making his case to get select after his performance in QEA, Pakistan only has that to measure a player performance to eligible for selection. What else criteria do you prefer?

There have been other bowlers performing in QEA over the last 06 years and even now with higher SR than Asif in current QEA (Hasan Ali being an example)

Their case hasn't been shouted at the top of vocal cords.

Any particular reason?

 

[www787]

There have been other bowlers performing in QEA over the last 06 years and even now with higher SR than Asif in current QEA (Hasan Ali being an example)

Their case hasn't been shouted at the top of vocal cords.

Any particular reason?

Many reasons. What do you think reason is?

 

[Arham_PakFan]

I would like to see Asif selected,just to see if he's still as good as he was and how certain posters make him out to be.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Many reasons. What do you think reason is?

One reason.

Hype train of the past exploits.

Sort of like Amir, who has been okay, but not doing much either.

If bowlers like Sohail can outperform Amir in England, then you know most of the times crowd is hyping up someone.

What do you think is the reason?

That he is still going to run through sides at 35 and be fit enough to bowl 15 overs day in day out in tests ? Or do you think he will actually teach Hazelwood and Starc a lesson or two in fast bowling?

 

[JaDed]

On performance basis he should be picked no other way around it,irrespective of the hype but considering his domestic performance and experience in Intl cricket he needed to be picked ,inzi has missed a trick here.

 

[Boxer]

A lot of chest beating from senior cricketers that they are the best in the business and not getting chances to play.

 

[Slog]

I'm not Pakistani.

And as a resident of Australia, I can tell you that Mohammad Asif's rap sheet is basically identical to Shane Warne's.

Performance-enhancing drugs? Yes.

Contact with fixers? Yes - except Asif wasn't paid and Warne was.

High profile sex scandals? Well, Asif is a choirboy compared with Warne on this one.

The only difference was that eventually the PCB stopped protecting Asif, but the Australian Cricket Board continued to rush Warne back the moment they could - including after 1 year for his drugs ban.

Spending time in jail?

One has been behind bars twice.

 

[Junaids]

There are a few differences between Warne and Asif, Warne has never been to jail for criminal offences or been banned by the ICC. Warne has never tested positive to performance enhancing drugs or even been caught smuggling drugs into another country. Warne has never been linked to match fixers like Asif has so all in all your feeble attempt to make Asif look similar to Warne is just as desperate as your attempt to portray Asif as the greatest bowler to walk the earth.

Right. I do not want to get moderated, so I am sticking strictly to facts that are not in dispute.

The purpose of this response is to highlight the similarities between the offences of Mohammad Asif and Shane Warne.

1. Shane Warne's cash from a fixer
The Australian journalist Phil Wilkins in early 1995 reported that on Australia's tour of Pakistan in September 1994 a Pakistan player - later revealed to be captain Salim Malik - had approached Tim May and Shane Warne to fix the First Test at Karachi.

In fact, Australia lost that First Test against massive odds, when Pakistan, having been 258-9 chasing 314 to win, miraculously reached the target.

It was only months later that Mark Ray of the Sunday Age received an anonymous letter that both Warne and Waugh were being paid by John the Bookie and he informed the Australian Cricket Board and the enquiry began, in secret.

An investigation by team manager Ian McDonald revealed that Mark Waugh and Shane Warne had accepted $4000 and $5000 respectively from a bookmaker known as "John".

The Australian Cricket Board did not disclose its discovery that Warne and Waugh had taken money from the bookie. They accepted their claims that the money was for giving him weather forecasts in a casino in Colombo, when they told him what the weather the next day was going to be in the town in which they were all standing. They accepted their denials that the money was fixing the Karachi Test.

The ACB issued secret fines of $10,000 and $8,000 and covered the affair up. When the press found out all hell broke loose and the ACB had to commission an independent enquiry by Rob O'Regan QC.

The findings of the O'Regan Enquiry were that Shane Warne and Mark Waugh should both have received bans from cricket.

Source: http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/79308.html

2. Shane Warne and the Failed Drugs Test

On December 15 2003, 7 weeks before the start of the World Cup, Shane Warne tore the muscles in his right (bowling) shoulder, an injury that was predicted to have a 10-12 week recovery period.

He made a miraculously fast recovery and was somehow fit enough to be selected for the World Cup.

Then, on the eve of the World Cup, he failed a drugs test for 2 thiazide diuretic drugs, which are banned because they are commonly used in sports as masking agents to conceal the use of anaobolic steroids, which are used for rapid muscle growth or recovery.

Yet again, Shane Warne's trial was conducted by his own employers, now renamed Cricket Australia. And he came up with the extraordinary defence that he took his mother's medication to try to make himself look thinner.

The offence now carries a minimum 2 year ban, and Warne's defence would not be accepted by the World Anti Drug Agency (WADA). But Cricket Australia banned him for only 1 year, and immediately selected him again as soon as the ban ended.

World Anti Drug Agency supremo Dick Pound variously described the defence as "laughable" and called Warne "a cheater". He makes it clear in the following article that he considers that Warne took the drug as a steroid masking agent....

Source: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...e/news-story/b7ecf9850931026d1594b26c7e60a947

So those are the offences involving fixers and drugs for which Shane Warne was convicted and punished.

It's up to you whether you think they resemble or differ from the Mohammad Asif ones.

 

[Gilly]

Right. I do not want to get moderated, so I am sticking strictly to facts that are not in dispute.

The purpose of this response is to highlight the similarities between the offences of Mohammad Asif and Shane Warne.

1. Shane Warne's cash from a fixer
The Australian journalist Phil Wilkins in early 1995 reported that on Australia's tour of Pakistan in September 1994 a Pakistan player - later revealed to be captain Salim Malik - had approached Tim May and Shane Warne to fix the First Test at Karachi.

In fact, Australia lost that First Test against massive odds, when Pakistan, having been 258-9 chasing 314 to win, miraculously reached the target.

It was only months later that Mark Ray of the Sunday Age received an anonymous letter that both Warne and Waugh were being paid by John the Bookie and he informed the Australian Cricket Board and the enquiry began, in secret.

An investigation by team manager Ian McDonald revealed that Mark Waugh and Shane Warne had accepted $4000 and $5000 respectively from a bookmaker known as "John".

The Australian Cricket Board did not disclose its discovery that Warne and Waugh had taken money from the bookie. They accepted their claims that the money was for giving him weather forecasts in a casino in Colombo, when they told him what the weather the next day was going to be in the town in which they were all standing. They accepted their denials that the money was fixing the Karachi Test.

The ACB issued secret fines of $10,000 and $8,000 and covered the affair up. When the press found out all hell broke loose and the ACB had to commission an independent enquiry by Rob O'Regan QC.

The findings of the O'Regan Enquiry were that Shane Warne and Mark Waugh should both have received bans from cricket.

Source: http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/content/story/79308.html

2. Shane Warne and the Failed Drugs Test

On December 15 2003, 7 weeks before the start of the World Cup, Shane Warne tore the muscles in his right (bowling) shoulder, an injury that was predicted to have a 10-12 week recovery period.

He made a miraculously fast recovery and was somehow fit enough to be selected for the World Cup.

Then, on the eve of the World Cup, he failed a drugs test for 2 thiazide diuretic drugs, which are banned because they are commonly used in sports as masking agents to conceal the use of anaobolic steroids, which are used for rapid muscle growth or recovery.

Yet again, Shane Warne's trial was conducted by his own employers, now renamed Cricket Australia. And he came up with the extraordinary defence that he took his mother's medication to try to make himself look thinner.

The offence now carries a minimum 2 year ban, and Warne's defence would not be accepted by the World Anti Drug Agency (WADA). But Cricket Australia banned him for only 1 year, and immediately selected him again as soon as the ban ended.

World Anti Drug Agency supremo Dick Pound variously described the defence as "laughable" and called Warne "a cheater". He makes it clear in the following article that he considers that Warne took the drug as a steroid masking agent....

Source: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...e/news-story/b7ecf9850931026d1594b26c7e60a947

So those are the offences involving fixers and drugs for which Shane Warne was convicted and punished.

It's up to you whether you think they resemble or differ from the Mohammad Asif ones.

Yeah Asif is a convicted criminal who has been sentenced to jail, he has been caught smuggling drugs into a foreign country, he has tested positive to performance enhancing drugs.

Warne has never tested positive to performance enhancing drugs, been jailed or been involved with match fixers. He did give team information to a bookie to help him set his odds which you have worked very hard to distort to make it look like it was the same as Asif.

So there is a huge difference between Asif and Warne, One has tested positive to performance enhancing drugs, convicted of criminal activity and sent to jail, chucked in jail for importing drugs and the other hasn't.

 

[Junaids]

Yeah Asif is a convicted criminal who has been sentenced to jail, he has been caught smuggling drugs into a foreign country, he has tested positive to performance enhancing drugs.

Warne has never tested positive to performance enhancing drugs, been jailed or been involved with match fixers. He did give team information to a bookie to help him set his odds which you have worked very hard to distort to make it look like it was the same as Asif.

So there is a huge difference between Asif and Warne, One has tested positive to performance enhancing drugs, convicted of criminal activity and sent to jail, chucked in jail for importing drugs and the other hasn't.

1. Both hydrochlorothiazide and amiloride are on the list of banned Performance-Enhancing drugs, so that's one error of yours out of the way.

Shane Warne was banned for testing positive for 2 drugs which are both on the list of banned performance enhancing drugs. They are listed in Section S5 on page 6 of the following list.

Source: https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/wada-2015-prohibited-list-en.pdf

2. So this is about jail and convictions? Well Mohammad Asif never even had his charges taken to court, let alone a conviction, for the drugs incident in Dubai.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cr...ped-Asif-Pakistan-paceman-deported-Dubai.html

So we have each player - Asif and Warne - with one conviction for use of performance-enhancing drugs.

And each player with one conviction for interaction with fixers. Asif was banned, while Warne was fined but according to the Queen's Counsel who independently reviewed the case, he should have been banned too.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/1999/feb/24/cricket5

That leaves the last remaining difference that Asif went to jail after a criminal conviction in his fixing case while Warne never had a criminal trial. But Asif's conviction is currently under review by the English legal system, and seems certain to be overturned.

Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...sa-court-cases-reviewed-dropped-a7347396.html

 

[Gilly]

1. Both hydrochlorothiazide and amiloride are on the list of banned Performance-Enhancing drugs, so that's one error of yours out of the way.

Shane Warne was banned for testing positive for 2 drugs which are both on the list of banned performance enhancing drugs. They are listed in Section S5 on page 6 of the following list.

Source: https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/wada-2015-prohibited-list-en.pdf

No Warne was banned for taking diuretics not performance enhancing drugs, you cant change history, sorry.
Warne had been called the day before by the Australian Sports Drugs Agency and told he had tested positive for a diuretic known as Moduretic, a prescription drug widely used in the treatment of hypertension, high blood pressure and fluid retention.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/830541.html

2. So this is about jail and convictions? Well Mohammad Asif never even had his charges taken to court, let alone a conviction, for the drugs incident in Dubai.

Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cr...ped-Asif-Pakistan-paceman-deported-Dubai.html

So we have each player - Asif and Warne - with one conviction for use of performance-enhancing drugs.

Nope sorry you are wrong again, Warne has never tested positive or been charged with testing positive to performance enhancing drugs, or even smuggling drugs or recreational drugs like others have been.

And each player with one conviction for interaction with fixers. Asif was banned, while Warne was fined but according to the Queen's Counsel who independently reviewed the case, he should have been banned too.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/1999/feb/24/cricket5

Nope sorry again Warne has never been convicted of interactions with a fixer, John was a bookie but not a fixer, Warne only gave information and that what he was charged for, Asif performed on the field for his fixer, we could make up lots of stuff about Asif like you do about Warne. I will stick to the facts about Asif.

That leaves the last remaining difference that Asif went to jail after a criminal conviction in his fixing case while Warne never had a criminal trial. But Asif's conviction is currently under review by the English legal system, and seems certain to be overturned.

Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...sa-court-cases-reviewed-dropped-a7347396.html

That would be because Warne never committed a criminal act, Asif did commit a criminal act and broke the law and was charged, proven guilty and jailed as a result, Warne never broke the law.

 

[godzilla]

the overt and shameless exaggeration of asif's performance in the qea in this thread and the multitude clones of it is disgusting and dishonest.

he has been mediocre at best, and has in no way whatsoever done enough to force the selectors to recall him. a performance over 18 overs in one innings does not excuse sub par perfromance and fitness throughout the rest of the tournament. where in the world and where in any form of intelligent conversation is a player picked because of his performance on one morning of a final four day match, whilst ignoring the rest of his games in the very same tournament?

and comparing his 'average' - which over six games is utterly meaningless as anyone with even the slightest knowledge of the very basics of statistics would be able to understand - to his average six years ago - what on earth does that signify? its beyond ridiculous. why on earth would he not be compared to peers in the same competition to judge whether he has performed or not, after all they are all playing on the same surfaces against the same teams, and unlike asif from 6 years ago, are available for selection today.

just look at the numbers, its takes a few seconds.

lets make it very simple to show just how blatant the lying and exaggeration on this part of the argument has been:

from: http://www.espncricinfo.com/quaid-e-azam-2016-17/engine/series/1047819.html?view=records which is a link to stats for this year's qea.

wickets:

asif is on 19 wickets. the number of bowlers in the tournament who have taken more: 39!! with the leader in the tournament, who unlike asif in his 5* games was fit enough to play 10, took 71 wickets - mohammed abbas, who incidentally is 8 years younger than asif and has career averages, economy and sr of 22, 2.85 and 46.4 versus asif at 24, 3.18 and 46. the other leading wicket takers took 62 (tabish), 50 (jabbar), 48 (mir). in what world is asif's peformance league leading?

he is unfit enough to last a domestic tournament, very understandable after a five year lay off, and he just hasnt performed as well as nearly 40 other bowlers in the tournament.

if wickets isnt a comfortable measure, lets look at averages, since that corrects for his missed games due to a lack of fitness. asif averages 18.63. the number of bowlers in the tournament who average better is 21!! but lets not play the shameless stats manipulation game, and take out the players who have taken less than say 10 wickets. the number of players who average better than asif are then 13. the lowest is 16 wickets @ 9.43, but even mainstream pak first team rejects have done massively better than asif: abbass again @ 12.74, sameen gul who has played 6 games has taken 34 wickets at 13.50, tabish averages 13.54, mir 14.45, even sohail tanvir averages 15.26, and gul is at 15.83.

so how on earth is this a league beating qea performance that has proven to the selectors that he has to be selected?

ok so lets move on again, if averages is not your thing. strike rate surely is a good measure of the value of a strike bowler. asif has a sr of 48.3 in the tournament. thats not even good enough to be listed on the the page of bowlers by strike rate on cricinfo. again ignoring players with fewer than 10 wickets, there are at least 32 bolwers with a superior strike rate - probably more but the list stops at 44.5.

sameen is at 28.9, abbas at 30, tabish at 30.5, mir at 34.5, azizullah 35.3, hasan 36.8, bhatti 40.9 and the list goes on.

if one were to look at the stats with any degree of integrity and honesty, asif has done nowhere near well enough to justify a recall on performance. had he been fit enough to play all the games he may have, but his lack of fitness is all the more reason not to select him. could he regain his old form and start outperforming his peers? of course he could, but so far there is no evidence for it.

not only has he not outshone his peers, theres more than a handful of bowlers that not only have beaten him this tournament, they have absolutely crushed him with their performances. if people here are so comfortable in screaming for selection after one innings of one game, why are they so inconsistent in applying that same logic to
bowlers that have done far far better over a single tournament?

the kneejerk children will of course begin screaming that stats dont mean anything and you have to have seen him perform yesterday. theres no question he bowled suprbly. when selecting a player, the point is to select players who are likely to bowl the best, most often of the choices available to you. if he is so good, why have so many players outperformed him? its a very simple question. if he is back to his best, why has been able to show that on one morning only? how does anyone have the confidence that it wasnt just a good day/conditions, rather than him being back to his best? is he improving day by day? quite possibly, but you cant expect any selector to pick him until that has been proven. its unfair to the other players who have done just that.

some of the claims on this thread which are being repeated throughout the board ad nauseam are an absolute disgrace.

 

[Junaids]

No, [MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION].

WADA considers diuretics to be performance enhancing drugs because of their ability to mask the use of steroids - which is the only reason why an athlete would take one. So diuretics are classified and treated exactly the same as anaobolic steroids unless you obtain a Therapeutic Exemption to take one.

And your distinction between "John" being a bookie or a fixer is absurd. The whole point about matchfixing is that the fixers are bookies looking to make a killing.

And in the case of "John the bookie", we know exactly who he is. And lo and behold, he is not just a bookie, but a fixer too.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...5/Rags-to-riches-story-for-Indian-bookie.html

 

[Gilly]

No, [MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION].

WADA considers diuretics to be performance enhancing drugs because of their ability to mask the use of steroids - which is the only reason why an athlete would take one. So diuretics are classified and treated exactly the same as anaobolic steroids unless you obtain a Therapeutic Exemption to take one.

And your distinction between "John" being a bookie or a fixer is absurd. The whole point about matchfixing is that the fixers are bookies looking to make a killing.

And in the case of "John the bookie", we know exactly who he is. And lo and behold, he is not just a bookie, but a fixer too.

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...5/Rags-to-riches-story-for-Indian-bookie.html

WADA do not consider diuretics to be performance enhancing drugs or they would have banned Yasir for two years for the exact same reason.

You seem so desperate to defend a convicted criminal who also tested positive to drugs, I don't understand why you are so desperate to defend a criminal.

 

[Hitman]

So? Let him be the greatest bowling genius in history. So what? From being caught taking illegal substance TWICE .... then smuggling illegal substance to another country, and then fixing matches. Does anyone in their right mind would want this disgraceful character to be back in the team?

 

[Junaids]

WADA do not consider diuretics to be performance enhancing drugs or they would have banned Yasir for two years for the exact same reason.

You seem so desperate to defend a convicted criminal who also tested positive to drugs, I don't understand why you are so desperate to defend a criminal.

I supported Shane Warne's return when his punishment was complete, and I support Asif's after his punishment is complete.

My point is that I would be a hypocrite if I adopted a double standard.

I have shown the similarity between their actions. Why should Pakistan handicap themselves by not picking their best bowler once his sentence is served, when other teams do?

 

[shah_1]

So? Let him be the greatest bowling genius in history. So what? From being caught taking illegal substance TWICE .... then smuggling illegal substance to another country, and then fixing matches. Does anyone in their right mind would want this disgraceful character to be back in the team?

Absolutely

He shows no humility. He is the best according to him and calling Rahat, Imran and Wahab mediocre,yes they might be but these honest cricketers have toiled hard for years to get into Pakistan team unlike this criminal.

Amir was quite behaved well after the ban was over.

 

[Junaids]

Absolutely

He shows no humility. He is the best according to him and calling Rahat, Imran and Wahab mediocre,yes they might be but these honest cricketers have toiled hard for years to get into Pakistan team unlike this criminal.

Amir was quite behaved well after the ban was over.

Are you serious?

Do you understand that the prosecution QC in the spotfixing trial also made repeated comments about Wahab Riaz?

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...investigation-after-claims-made-in-trial.html

One of the major problems here is people who don't really know what happened in 2010.

 

[Statsman]

Are you serious?

Do you understand that the prosecution QC in the spotfixing trial also made repeated comments about Wahab Riaz?

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...investigation-after-claims-made-in-trial.html

One of the major problems here is people who don't really know what happened in 2010.

Bolded is actually very true. Were Akmal and Riaz proved innocent?

 

[shah_1]

Are you serious?

Do you understand that the prosecution QC in the spotfixing trial also made repeated comments about Wahab Riaz?

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...investigation-after-claims-made-in-trial.html

One of the major problems here is people who don't really know what happened in 2010.

Wahab was never investigated, so the comments mean nothing.

 

[shah_1]

Bolded is actually very true. Were Akmal and Riaz proved innocent?

There was NO PROOF against these two.

 

[Junaids]

There was NO PROOF against these two.

There was no proof against anyone apart from the now-discredited News of the World video, made by the Fake Sheikh who is now in jail for faking a different sting video.

That's the whole point. Even the Amir, Asif, Butt, Majeed convictions are going to be thrown out.

 

[Moiza]

the overt and shameless exaggeration of asif's performance in the qea in this thread and the multitude clones of it is disgusting and dishonest.

he has been mediocre at best, and has in no way whatsoever done enough to force the selectors to recall him. a performance over 18 overs in one innings does not excuse sub par perfromance and fitness throughout the rest of the tournament. where in the world and where in any form of intelligent conversation is a player picked because of his performance on one morning of a final four day match, whilst ignoring the rest of his games in the very same tournament?

and comparing his 'average' - which over six games is utterly meaningless as anyone with even the slightest knowledge of the very basics of statistics would be able to understand - to his average six years ago - what on earth does that signify? its beyond ridiculous. why on earth would he not be compared to peers in the same competition to judge whether he has performed or not, after all they are all playing on the same surfaces against the same teams, and unlike asif from 6 years ago, are available for selection today.

just look at the numbers, its takes a few seconds.

lets make it very simple to show just how blatant the lying and exaggeration on this part of the argument has been:

from: http://www.espncricinfo.com/quaid-e-azam-2016-17/engine/series/1047819.html?view=records which is a link to stats for this year's qea.

wickets:

asif is on 19 wickets. the number of bowlers in the tournament who have taken more: 39!! with the leader in the tournament, who unlike asif in his 5* games was fit enough to play 10, took 71 wickets - mohammed abbas, who incidentally is 8 years younger than asif and has career averages, economy and sr of 22, 2.85 and 46.4 versus asif at 24, 3.18 and 46. the other leading wicket takers took 62 (tabish), 50 (jabbar), 48 (mir). in what world is asif's peformance league leading?

he is unfit enough to last a domestic tournament, very understandable after a five year lay off, and he just hasnt performed as well as nearly 40 other bowlers in the tournament.

if wickets isnt a comfortable measure, lets look at averages, since that corrects for his missed games due to a lack of fitness. asif averages 18.63. the number of bowlers in the tournament who average better is 21!! but lets not play the shameless stats manipulation game, and take out the players who have taken less than say 10 wickets. the number of players who average better than asif are then 13. the lowest is 16 wickets @ 9.43, but even mainstream pak first team rejects have done massively better than asif: abbass again @ 12.74, sameen gul who has played 6 games has taken 34 wickets at 13.50, tabish averages 13.54, mir 14.45, even sohail tanvir averages 15.26, and gul is at 15.83.

so how on earth is this a league beating qea performance that has proven to the selectors that he has to be selected?

ok so lets move on again, if averages is not your thing. strike rate surely is a good measure of the value of a strike bowler. asif has a sr of 48.3 in the tournament. thats not even good enough to be listed on the the page of bowlers by strike rate on cricinfo. again ignoring players with fewer than 10 wickets, there are at least 32 bolwers with a superior strike rate - probably more but the list stops at 44.5.

sameen is at 28.9, abbas at 30, tabish at 30.5, mir at 34.5, azizullah 35.3, hasan 36.8, bhatti 40.9 and the list goes on.

if one were to look at the stats with any degree of integrity and honesty, asif has done nowhere near well enough to justify a recall on performance. had he been fit enough to play all the games he may have, but his lack of fitness is all the more reason not to select him. could he regain his old form and start outperforming his peers? of course he could, but so far there is no evidence for it.

not only has he not outshone his peers, theres more than a handful of bowlers that not only have beaten him this tournament, they have absolutely crushed him with their performances. if people here are so comfortable in screaming for selection after one innings of one game, why are they so inconsistent in applying that same logic to
bowlers that have done far far better over a single tournament?

the kneejerk children will of course begin screaming that stats dont mean anything and you have to have seen him perform yesterday. theres no question he bowled suprbly. when selecting a player, the point is to select players who are likely to bowl the best, most often of the choices available to you. if he is so good, why have so many players outperformed him? its a very simple question. if he is back to his best, why has been able to show that on one morning only? how does anyone have the confidence that it wasnt just a good day/conditions, rather than him being back to his best? is he improving day by day? quite possibly, but you cant expect any selector to pick him until that has been proven. its unfair to the other players who have done just that.

some of the claims on this thread which are being repeated throughout the board ad nauseam are an absolute disgrace.

Why are all the Asif hype train drivers conveniently ignoring this post?

I would love to see how they are going to justify Asif's imaginary selection based on the above mentioned stats.

 

[godzilla]

Why are all the Asif hype train drivers conveniently ignoring this post?

I would love to see how they are going to justify Asif's imaginary selection based on the above mentioned stats.

ive posted similar on at least a couple of other parallel threads - no responses there either.

 

[Slog]

There was no proof against anyone apart from the now-discredited News of the World video, made by the Fake Sheikh who is now in jail for faking a different sting video.

That's the whole point. Even the Amir, Asif, Butt, Majeed convictions are going to be thrown out.

The video is not discredited

You know that. Dunno why you prefer to put your head in the sand

 

[Junaids]

There was NO PROOF against these two.

The video is not discredited

You know that. Dunno why you prefer to put your head in the sand

You are missing the point.

I know that Amir, Asif and Butt were guilty. But all the Fake Sheikh's scoops are now legally unsound and all the convictions will be thrown out.

So it's silly to say "X was convicted but there is no proof against Y" because soon they will all share the same legal status.

I'm glad the spotfixers were banned. But I know that they were entrapped by a newspaper into fake crimes. Yet Mazhar Majeed was clear that he also did real fixing for real criminals using other members of the team.

And it seems to suit everyone to ignore that part of the taped evidence.

It's easier to blame Amir, Asif and Butt who in the same video he said were not part of the existing fixing ring.

 

[Junaids]

Why are all the Asif hype train drivers conveniently ignoring this post?

I would love to see how they are going to justify Asif's imaginary selection based on the above mentioned stats.

Because it's complete nonsense.

It fails to recognise that the Final is between the best teams with the best batsmen on a better five day pitch.

And it seeks to use twisted statistics to mislead us into ignoring what we saw with our own eyes.

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Why are all the Asif hype train drivers conveniently ignoring this post?

I would love to see how they are going to justify Asif's imaginary selection based on the above mentioned stats.

Let's go back.


2004-2005 Quaid e Azam Trophy


Why did Bob Woolmer, Inzamam ul Haq and Selectors ignored Top 20 bowlers and selected Mohammad Asif for Pakistan Team ?

Were Shahid Nazir, Waqar Ahmed, Abdur Rauf, Rajesh Ramesh, Yasir Arafat better bowlers than Mohammad Asif ?


If the Selectors, Captain and mainly Bob Woolmer wrong than why does Asif average 24 in 23 Test Matches with a better Test record in first 23 tests of Career compared to Glen McGrath despite playing mainly on flat surfaces unlike McGrath ?



Ellipsism please do not ignore Shahid Nazir's average & strike rate. (12 years ago FC wickets were same)

 

[Slog]

You are missing the point.

I know that Amir, Asif and Butt were guilty. But all the Fake Sheikh's scoops are now legally unsound and all the convictions will be thrown out.

So it's silly to say "X was convicted but there is no proof against Y" because soon they will all share the same legal status.

I'm glad the spotfixers were banned. But I know that they were entrapped by a newspaper into fake crimes. Yet Mazhar Majeed was clear that he also did real fixing for real criminals using other members of the team.

And it seems to suit everyone to ignore that part of the taped evidence.

It's easier to blame Amir, Asif and Butt who in the same video he said were not part of the existing fixing ring.

Stop making things up.

You say you are a doctor which shows your lack of understanding of legal matters

 

[Slog]

Let's go back.


2004-2005 Quaid e Azam Trophy


Why did Bob Woolmer, Inzamam ul Haq and Selectors ignored Top 20 bowlers and selected Mohammad Asif for Pakistan Team ?

Were Shahid Nazir, Waqar Ahmed, Abdur Rauf, Rajesh Ramesh, Yasir Arafat better bowlers than Mohammad Asif ?


If the Selectors, Captain and mainly Bob Woolmer wrong than why does Asif average 24 in 23 Test Matches with a better Test record in first 23 tests of Career compared to Glen McGrath despite playing mainly on flat surfaces unlike McGrath ?



Ellipsism please do not ignore Shahid Nazir's average & strike rate. (12 years ago FC wickets were same)

Well Asif did do very poorly

The next season he performed well and crucially destroyed a touring England side in an A game so he got a recall

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

Well Asif did do very poorly

The next season he performed well and crucially destroyed a touring England side in an A game so he got a recall

No.


When Asif played against England the next Fc Season did not even begin. Why did selectors, captain and coach gave a bowler who was at number 21 in Top wicket takers last season a match against England ahead of Top 20 ?

 

[Junaids]

Stop making things up.

You say you are a doctor which shows your lack of understanding of legal matters

Try this.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...victims-line-up-with-800m-of-claims-1-8193603

 

[TalentSpotterPk]

No.


When Asif played against England the next Fc Season did not even begin. Why did selectors, captain and coach gave a bowler who was at number 21 in Top wicket takers last season a match against England ahead of Top 20 ?

Apologies the Fc season had begun and Asif did play 3 Fc matches.

Point is Asif was from a very humble background. He neither had Safarish (reference) nor he had the money to bribe management or selectors. Yet Woolmer insisted on picking a bowler for tour of Australia who was at number 21 amongst top wicket takers and at that time Sami Ullah Niazi, Riaz Afridi, Fazl e Akbar and Shahid Nazir had much much superior Fc bowling average and strike rate.


Woolmer also wanted to select Ali Imran Pasha who had just played Under 19 World Cup 1 year ago because He saw something special in him but Inzamam did not agree as he thought Ali was too young and inexperienced at that time.

 

[TalhaSyed]

He has displayed remorse, his guilt was also the least out of amir and butt. And while it is arguable he shouldn't be making the comments he has, I personally don't find anything offensive about them; it's just the truth. I understand people will take is as a great sign of disrespect but I really don't and nor do I think Asif intended disrespect. Asif is a confident man with an incredible god given gift with the ball; what he says makes him. I actually would see a huge improvement in either Rahat, Amir, Imran, Sohail or Wahab if Asif was around. Obviously this is just my opinion and I could be wrong but listen to [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] who is Psychiatric Doctor and has a better insight into what Asif says then me.

It never got to a stage where Asif was in a position where he could apologise to anyone as his return was not fastracked but he has displayed remorse mind you his guilt was also the least but given an awful lawyer he's been made out to be on the level of butt and amir which is not the case. I think what's shameless is going to Australia with bowlers like Rahat Ali, Imran Khan and Sohail Khan who will partner Amir.

Nothing insulting or shameless about Asif's comments, they were just facts. Our pace attack is pretty average and that was pretty much what he said.

For 3 years after the incident he was still saying he was innocent and appealing against teh punishment that was handed to him, when it was blatantly obvious that he was guilty. He finally apologised in 2013, where it got to the stage that the PCB said that if he wants to have any chance of returning he must show remorse and apologise. Even Butt went ahead an apologised before he did.

Anyway - that is in the past and there is no point arguing about who was most guilty or who apologised first.

Let move onto the latest instalment of Asif's drama - these comments.

Yes i also think he is stating the truth. However, if he wants to make it into the team then he should stop slagging off the players he is hoping to play aside. If he continues to boast in the press about him being better than any bowler in the Test side, of course selectors will want to keep an arrogant, self centred player like him away from the team.

Ideally, he should just shut up and let his performance do the talking. However, if he really can't keep his mouth shut and has to say something in the press, then he can simply point out his accomplishments and state his ambitions of returning to the international team. There is no scenario in which he should be bashing the players he is hoping to play along side and publicly boast about how he feels he is better than them.

He has the talent - and that has never been questioned. However, following acts like failed drugs tests, spot fixing, fighting in the changing room & now bashing players in the team - he does not seem to have the maturity or intelligence to be trusted with an international re-call in my opinion.

 

[TalhaSyed]

Apologies the Fc season had begun and Asif did play 3 Fc matches.

Point is Asif was from a very humble background. He neither had Safarish (reference) nor he had the money to bribe management or selectors. Yet Woolmer insisted on picking a bowler for tour of Australia who was at number 21 amongst top wicket takers and at that time Sami Ullah Niazi, Riaz Afridi, Fazl e Akbar and Shahid Nazir had much much superior Fc bowling average and strike rate.


Woolmer also wanted to select Ali Imran Pasha who had just played Under 19 World Cup 1 year ago because He saw something special in him but Inzamam did not agree as he thought Ali was too young and inexperienced at that time.

Problem is - all that humbleness seems to be a distant memory now.

For someone who is a convicted spot-fixer and admits selling his country for money - he sure does like running his mouth and boasting about himself as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Speaking of Asif not being the best bowler in the FC circuit - the likes of Mohammad Abbas, Tabish Khan, Mir Hamza and Sameen Gul (to name a few) have all got more wickets, at a better average and a better strike rate than Asif. I think all (correct me if I'm wrong) are also younger than Asif - heck Sameen is only 17.

Looking at his stats for the QEA trophy his BBF are 4/49, so it doesn't look like he has particularly run through any batting line up or has been unplayable even for our domestic batsmen. I've seen a couple of hi-lights where I've seen him swing the ball a bit - however, I also saw such hi-lights of Amir before his return (and even after his return in the game against Somerset in the summer and against CA XI last week).

I've only seen the stats and not actually seen these guys bowl, so can you please tell me what has Asif actually done since his return which warrants him a fast track back into the team ahead of these guys?

We saw Amir get fast tracked into the team & he has left much to be desired. A lot of posters were hoping/expecting to see Amir of 2010, which hasn't happened. What has Asif done (if anything) to suggest that he would be any different?

 

[shaz619]

For 3 years after the incident he was still saying he was innocent and appealing against teh punishment that was handed to him, when it was blatantly obvious that he was guilty. He finally apologised in 2013, where it got to the stage that the PCB said that if he wants to have any chance of returning he must show remorse and apologise. Even Butt went ahead an apologised before he did.

Anyway - that is in the past and there is no point arguing about who was most guilty or who apologised first.

Let move onto the latest instalment of Asif's drama - these comments.

Yes i also think he is stating the truth. However, if he wants to make it into the team then he should stop slagging off the players he is hoping to play aside. If he continues to boast in the press about him being better than any bowler in the Test side, of course selectors will want to keep an arrogant, self centred player like him away from the team.

Ideally, he should just shut up and let his performance do the talking. However, if he really can't keep his mouth shut and has to say something in the press, then he can simply point out his accomplishments and state his ambitions of returning to the international team. There is no scenario in which he should be bashing the players he is hoping to play along side and publicly boast about how he feels he is better than them.

He has the talent - and that has never been questioned. However, following acts like failed drugs tests, spot fixing, fighting in the changing room & now bashing players in the team - he does not seem to have the maturity or intelligence to be trusted with an international re-call in my opinion.

Well he did that because he believed he was and in fact that conviction has a big chance of being overturned if he appeals now, his guilt being the least is important because that past is alwayd being bought up and he gets vilified on the level of amir and butt. Asif did apologise either way.

He isn't arrogant or self centrered, that would be the likes of afridi and ahmed shehzad. Asif is confident and incredibly skilful. I agree that those comments should not have been said because they're not PC and in this day and age people are sensitive but he is left with no choice but to lobby in this fashion when it has been made clear to him that he can't play for pak and the pcb have sabotaged his return, the likes of afridi and others have made comments which were a lot more ignorant and his award winning interviews have helped him get his way for years, Asif is doing the same now but with a bit more dignitiy.

There is no evidence of Asif being convicted for the crimes you speak off other than fixing which also was a travesty of justice. You also just said he sold his country for money, he did not; he received no sums for bowling those no balls unlike butt and amir who had suspicioud activity on his phone long before spot fixing. Just because Amir and Butt are being PC with their goody two shoes persona doesn't make their guilt any less in comparison to Asif who was the least guilty. With them comments he merely spoke the truth even though i agree he should not have but he is lobbying and i cant crucify him for that because he had no chance of being selected anyway

 

[ExpressPacer]

Asif, on merit, is one probably still one of the best bowlers playing the game and should be on the first plane to Australia. Instead, he should've been there all along. Like Junaids has said many times before, all professional teams play their best players regardless of their past or bans, etc.

However, this is where the problem lies for me. Players like Asif may be vital to the team but they ruin other players, mostly younger ones. I don't think Asif would be someone we want anyone from our newer players to look up to. Asif already took Moh. Amir down with him earlier. This is what players with bad off the ground attitudes/lives do.

No matter how much we deny it, Umar Akmal and Ahmed Shehzad were most definitely talented players. The main reason why they are not in the team right now because they looked up to "superstars" like Shahid Afridi for inspiration and he was the one who ruined their approach towards the game and ruined their hunger. In the end, it wasn't about the team, it was just about being IN the team and personal records.

So, despite Moh. Asif is the first person who deserves to be in Australia, he is not greater than the cost of destroying other, maybe inferior but talented players.

 

[shaz619]

Problem is - all that humbleness seems to be a distant memory now.

For someone who is a convicted spot-fixer and admits selling his country for money - he sure does like running his mouth and boasting about himself as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Speaking of Asif not being the best bowler in the FC circuit - the likes of Mohammad Abbas, Tabish Khan, Mir Hamza and Sameen Gul (to name a few) have all got more wickets, at a better average and a better strike rate than Asif. I think all (correct me if I'm wrong) are also younger than Asif - heck Sameen is only 17.

Looking at his stats for the QEA trophy his BBF are 4/49, so it doesn't look like he has particularly run through any batting line up or has been unplayable even for our domestic batsmen. I've seen a couple of hi-lights where I've seen him swing the ball a bit - however, I also saw such hi-lights of Amir before his return (and even after his return in the game against Somerset in the summer and against CA XI last week).

I've only seen the stats and not actually seen these guys bowl, so can you please tell me what has Asif actually done since his return which warrants him a fast track back into the team ahead of these guys?

We saw Amir get fast tracked into the team & he has left much to be desired. A lot of posters were hoping/expecting to see Amir of 2010, which hasn't happened. What has Asif done (if anything) to suggest that he would be any different?

Thankfully we dont go by stats alone or imran farhat would be opening for pakistan. Amir and Asif international pedigree must be accounted for, Asif has been leathal with the new ball more then others and has really kept it tight when the ball went soft, that with his international prowess is enough. Amir was selected for the same reason and we hope/expect him to get back to his best. Asif was also a genius on the level of Mcgrath, had the PCB invested in him the probability of a bigger return would have been very very high

 

[yasir]

There have been other bowlers performing in QEA over the last 06 years and even now with higher SR than Asif in current QEA (Hasan Ali being an example)

Their case hasn't been shouted at the top of vocal cords.

Any particular reason?

Doc you got understand Asif was an established brand in Pakistan. He has got wickets of all top players(I don't need to go through the list again) in 5 different countries before 2010. Comparing him with newbies is Apples and Oranges... If Styen gets injured and comeback from playing FC, his performance will not start as blank slate, you will not start put him back of the FC line and start comparing him with kids who have never play test cricket

What you will look for is his fitness to bowl in test and relative speeds... From what we see, Asif rhythm as bowler is still very good and he has not lost much of what he had. If you question his fitness, well that is something we can talk about, saying he is not good enough can come up with spread sheet of Aisf's avg is 20.2 and another newbie guy has 19.3 or whatever is pointless discussion. We have our eyes to see who is at what level, we don't need stats guru for that

Also, no matter how much you hate Amir, in 2016 he is still Pakistan best fast bowler, and he still has the most potential. All others are tier below him. Now pairing Asif and Amir take our bowling to level of AUS/SA/ENG opening attack, quite literally. As a fan why I would not want my team to have best possible combination?? None of the other bowlers have that kind of skill or control. This is also long term investment too, these kind of bowlers will inspire others youngster in next 2/3 years. It raises the standard and expectation at national level. As fan we want to see the best we got, not the non sense moral politics, you have 50 other avenues to sell your moral BS, let us enjoy cricket and build a strong team

 

[TalhaSyed]

Well he did that because he believed he was and in fact that conviction has a big chance of being overturned if he appeals now, his guilt being the least is important because that past is alwayd being bought up and he gets vilified on the level of amir and butt. Asif did apologise either way.

He isn't arrogant or self centrered, that would be the likes of afridi and ahmed shehzad. Asif is confident and incredibly skilful. I agree that those comments should not have been said because they're not PC and in this day and age people are sensitive but he is left with no choice but to lobby in this fashion when it has been made clear to him that he can't play for pak and the pcb have sabotaged his return, the likes of afridi and others have made comments which were a lot more ignorant and his award winning interviews have helped him get his way for years, Asif is doing the same now but with a bit more dignitiy.

There is no evidence of Asif being convicted for the crimes you speak off other than fixing which also was a travesty of justice. You also just said he sold his country for money, he did not; he received no sums for bowling those no balls unlike butt and amir who had suspicioud activity on his phone long before spot fixing. Just because Amir and Butt are being PC with their goody two shoes persona doesn't make their guilt any less in comparison to Asif who was the least guilty. With them comments he merely spoke the truth even though i agree he should not have but he is lobbying and i cant crucify him for that because he had no chance of being selected anyway

He believed he was innocent? Really man? Theres a chance that conviction gets overturned due to the nature in which Asif was caught- Doesn't change the fact that he was still guilty of the crime and he was caught. If you give a guy a gun and he shoots someone - he isn't innocent simply because he didn't go and get the gun himself. Similarly the fake sheikh set Amir, Asif & Butt up with an opportunity to spot fix and they went ahead and took it. They aren't innocent by any means.

On what basis exactly can it be said that Afridi and Shehzad are arrogant and self centred - whilst Asif is just confident? All 3 of them like to run their mouth about how good they think they are, all 3 of them only care about their spot in the team, all 3 of them have their own agenda and all 3 of them try and use the media & public stunts to get into the team.

It's not about PC - it's about CS - common sense. If you want to join someone - you don't go out and bash them. The guy most likely has the talent to be in the Pakistani team but he doesn't have the common sense to be trusted with the responsibility of representing his country IMO.

And now you are trying to defend him of his other crimes too? Was the dope test he failed in Nov 2006 a fabricated story? Was the spot fixing crime he publicly acknowledged and apologised for all a lie? Was his injury after being involved in a fight with Akhtar in 2007 a myth? Are these statements he is now saying in the media an Asif look a-like spewing garbage?

Thankfully we dont go by stats alone or imran farhat would be opening for pakistan. Amir and Asif international pedigree must be accounted for, Asif has been leathal with the new ball more then others and has really kept it tight when the ball went soft, that with his international prowess is enough. Amir was selected for the same reason and we hope/expect him to get back to his best. Asif was also a genius on the level of Mcgrath, had the PCB invested in him the probability of a bigger return would have been very very high

Yea but last week you were saying how disappointed you were with Amir's return - what suggests that Asif would be any different? All the points that you mentioned were the same reason Amir was fast tracked (as well as the fact that he agreed guilt early on & apologised - unlike Asif and Butt) - yet he disappointed you. So why do you think Asif would be any different?

As far as I can see he certainly hasn't demonstrated anything since his return so far which suggests that he would be anything like he was in 2010.

The part in bold is so ironic. A genius with the ball - yet an idiot in every other way imaginable. The guy really is his own worst enemy and has completely wasted the talent he has been gifted with.

 

[New Yorker]

He is and was better than most during his playing and current Australian bowlers.

Asif has not been linked to match fixers. He was coerced by two spot-fixers, his manager, and Salman Butt, his captain.

He refused to take any money for what they asked him to do.

Warne was tested positive for a banned substance which acts a masking agent for performance enhancing
drugs, and claims he took it by accident.

In other words, he was guilty of more or less the same offence for which Yasir was banned.

The ACB committee labelled 'Warne's evidence, and that of his mother, as "vague, unsatisfactory and inconsistent"'

For jurisdictional reasons, Warne was banned by the ACB, not the ICC, but he was banned.

 

[New Yorker]

Problem is - all that humbleness seems to be a distant memory now.

For someone who is a convicted spot-fixer and admits selling his country for money - he sure does like running his mouth and boasting about himself as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Speaking of Asif not being the best bowler in the FC circuit - the likes of Mohammad Abbas, Tabish Khan, Mir Hamza and Sameen Gul (to name a few) have all got more wickets, at a better average and a better strike rate than Asif. I think all (correct me if I'm wrong) are also younger than Asif - heck Sameen is only 17.

Looking at his stats for the QEA trophy his BBF are 4/49, so it doesn't look like he has particularly run through any batting line up or has been unplayable even for our domestic batsmen. I've seen a couple of hi-lights where I've seen him swing the ball a bit - however, I also saw such hi-lights of Amir before his return (and even after his return in the game against Somerset in the summer and against CA XI last week).

I've only seen the stats and not actually seen these guys bowl, so can you please tell me what has Asif actually done since his return which warrants him a fast track back into the team ahead of these guys?

We saw Amir get fast tracked into the team & he has left much to be desired. A lot of posters were hoping/expecting to see Amir of 2010, which hasn't happened. What has Asif done (if anything) to suggest that he would be any different?

Asif never sold his country for money, Amir did.

Get your facts straight

 

[New Yorker]

Try this.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...victims-line-up-with-800m-of-claims-1-8193603

Thank you for your Sisyphean work in setting the record straight on Asif. Over and over and over again.

 

[TalhaSyed]

Asif never sold his country for money, Amir did.

Get your facts straight

So why did he bowl the no-ball?

Just for the fun of it? Because he thought it would be a good laugh?

Do you think Asif sold his country because Captain Butt asked him nicely? Or do you think he sold his country for a laugh?

Sure - no money was found on Asif - however you would be delusional to think he didn't do it for the money.

Here's what the court had to say to Asif:

30. Whilst no marked NOTW money was found in your possession, the jury have found that you conspired to accept money in the same way as your captain. You bowled a no ball in order to obtain payment and in order to assist others to cheat at gambling. If it was £10,000 for a no ball, you would have got a share of that sum, allowing for a cut for Salman Butt and Majeed. The sums of money of which others could have been defrauded, for the reasons I have already given cannot be accurately calculated.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...ammad-Amir-jailed-judges-verdict-in-full.html

 

[shaz619]

He believed he was innocent? Really man? Theres a chance that conviction gets overturned due to the nature in which Asif was caught- Doesn't change the fact that he was still guilty of the crime and he was caught. If you give a guy a gun and he shoots someone - he isn't innocent simply because he didn't go and get the gun himself. Similarly the fake sheikh set Amir, Asif & Butt up with an opportunity to spot fix and they went ahead and took it. They aren't innocent by any means.

On what basis exactly can it be said that Afridi and Shehzad are arrogant and self centred - whilst Asif is just confident? All 3 of them like to run their mouth about how good they think they are, all 3 of them only care about their spot in the team, all 3 of them have their own agenda and all 3 of them try and use the media & public stunts to get into the team.

It's not about PC - it's about CS - common sense. If you want to join someone - you don't go out and bash them. The guy most likely has the talent to be in the Pakistani team but he doesn't have the common sense to be trusted with the responsibility of representing his country IMO.

And now you are trying to defend him of his other crimes too? Was the dope test he failed in Nov 2006 a fabricated story? Was the spot fixing crime he publicly acknowledged and apologised for all a lie? Was his injury after being involved in a fight with Akhtar in 2007 a myth? Are these statements he is now saying in the media an Asif look a-like spewing garbage?



Yea but last week you were saying how disappointed you were with Amir's return - what suggests that Asif would be any different? All the points that you mentioned were the same reason Amir was fast tracked (as well as the fact that he agreed guilt early on & apologised - unlike Asif and Butt) - yet he disappointed you. So why do you think Asif would be any different?

As far as I can see he certainly hasn't demonstrated anything since his return so far which suggests that he would be anything like he was in 2010.

The part in bold is so ironic. A genius with the ball - yet an idiot in every other way imaginable. The guy really is his own worst enemy and has completely wasted the talent he has been gifted with.

So much emphasis is given to his conviction which we're looking at on paper then surely we shouldn't see otherwise if that conviction is over-turned because he would no longer be guilty and as Junaids pointed out earlier he could sue. Here's the thing though Asif did take that gun but he didn't do anything with it, Butt and Amir received payment. Not everything is black and white or else there wouldn't be so much sympathy for Amir.

Asif has not displayed bigotry in the media like shehzad and afridi, he simply made a comment which was fact but you're clasifying it as bashing team mates which is not eight, bashing would be if he said those comments and they were not fact, e.g criticisms towards Misbah over the years. And Afridi, Shehzad are arrogant, self centered and mentally deformed; their cricket also vindicates this. I mean does asifs factual comment really compare to the stuff which they've said in the past? He is trying to lobby now with a bit of chit chat in the media given that its a last resort for selection.

Akhtar hit Asif with a bat because he simply said that he doesn't agree that he's better then imran khan, what was the fault of asif there. Yes he was convicted for spot fixing it was a travesty of justice, the other crimes as [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] have pointed out hold little weight given that he wasn't convicted for them but yeah he has been a little trouble at times.

I am dissapointed with Amir that's not to say the PCB should not have invested in him but we can both agree he has not been at his best, but with Asif being extra special the results are not in doubt. Amir was selected based on the same FC sample set which Asif has currently but Asif also has the added bonus of displaying his genius in the QEA trophy final, there are threads and videos which emphasise his prowess.

 

[shaz619]

So why did he bowl the no-ball?

Just for the fun of it? Because he thought it would be a good laugh?

Do you think Asif sold his country because Captain Butt asked him nicely? Or do you think he sold his country for a laugh?

Sure - no money was found on Asif - however you would be delusional to think he didn't do it for the money.

Here's what the court had to say to Asif:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...ammad-Amir-jailed-judges-verdict-in-full.html

But there was no money found. Amir on the other hand was apparently fixing for months etc. He only got sympathy because of his age, when really people in pakistan mature pretty early

 

[TalhaSyed]

But there was no money found. Amir on the other hand was apparently fixing for months etc. He only got sympathy because of his age, when really people in pakistan mature pretty early

So much emphasis is given to his conviction which we're looking at on paper then surely we shouldn't see otherwise if that conviction is over-turned because he would no longer be guilty and as Junaids pointed out earlier he could sue. Here's the thing though Asif did take that gun but he didn't do anything with it, Butt and Amir received payment. Not everything is black and white or else there wouldn't be so much sympathy for Amir.

Asif has not displayed bigotry in the media like shehzad and afridi, he simply made a comment which was fact but you're clasifying it as bashing team mates which is not eight, bashing would be if he said those comments and they were not fact, e.g criticisms towards Misbah over the years. And Afridi, Shehzad are arrogant, self centered and mentally deformed; their cricket also vindicates this. I mean does asifs factual comment really compare to the stuff which they've said in the past? He is trying to lobby now with a bit of chit chat in the media given that its a last resort for selection.

Akhtar hit Asif with a bat because he simply said that he doesn't agree that he's better then imran khan, what was the fault of asif there. Yes he was convicted for spot fixing it was a travesty of justice, the other crimes as [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] have pointed out hold little weight given that he wasn't convicted for them but yeah he has been a little trouble at times.

I am dissapointed with Amir that's not to say the PCB should not have invested in him but we can both agree he has not been at his best, but with Asif being extra special the results are not in doubt. Amir was selected based on the same FC sample set which Asif has currently but Asif also has the added bonus of displaying his genius in the QEA trophy final, there are threads and videos which emphasise his prowess.

I dont think it's about the emphasis on the conviction. Its the emphasis on the evidence against him and the fact that he accepted that he was guilty.

The reasons for sympathy for Amir are age, accepting guilt early, apologising early, not dragging the issue through court, not appealing against the punishment and not running his mouth about how he thinks he's the greatest thing ever.

Afridi & Shehzad talk in the media - they are bigots with mental deformities. A spot fixing druggy talks in the media - he is just trying to "lobby with some chit chat"

I personally find it comical (and slightly embarrassing) that some Asif fans on here are actually trying to cover up for the guy and make it sound like he did not commit those crimes.

Can I ask you some simple yes or no questions man:

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif was involved in Spot Fixing?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif spot fixed to make some extra money on the side?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif took drugs in 2006?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif got in a physical alteration with team mates in 2007?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif got stopped at Dubai airport with 'something suspicious in his wallet' in 2008 which led to him being banned from entering the UAE (a ban which was later lifted in 2011)?

Yes or no - do you think that following the above he was banned by the IPL for 1 year for testing positive for steroids during the 2008 edition of the IPL?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif came out and said that he wants to play in/with the Pakistani cricket team because he is better then all the other fast bowlers currently in the team?

Now don't give me any of this "it's not as clear as yes & no" BS man because it really is. Those are simple Yes & No questions - based on what YOU think happened.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Absolutely

He shows no humility. He is the best according to him and calling Rahat, Imran and Wahab mediocre,yes they might be but these honest cricketers have toiled hard for years to get into Pakistan team unlike this criminal.

Amir was quite behaved well after the ban was over.

Rahat, Imran and Wahab are mediocre. Don't care about how hard they have toiled in domestic cricket for years. If you're ****, you don't deserve to don the greens.

The amount of fans that have sprung up of these mediocre, pathetic players thanks to Amir and Asif is amazing. People championing for someone like Rahat Ali, who bowls rubbish 85% of the time and takes a few wickets the few times that he manages to surprise a batsman with a decent delivery. You have a huge post above outlining the 'stats' of some of our young superstars who we have all seen on television and who are good enough to make Zimbabwe proud with their 'talent and skills'. As I said, just amazing.

Not a huge fan of Asif's return, but what he did say should be said more often about our current pace attack. Too many bowlers in their comfort zones, without any drive to work hard or willingness to improve and become half-decent (forget decent).

 

[shah_1]

Rahat, Imran and Wahab are mediocre. Don't care about how hard they have toiled in domestic cricket for years. If you're ****, you don't deserve to don the greens.

The amount of fans that have sprung up of these mediocre, pathetic players thanks to Amir and Asif is amazing. People championing for someone like Rahat Ali, who bowls rubbish 85% of the time and takes a few wickets the few times that he manages to surprise a batsman with a decent delivery. You have a huge post above outlining the 'stats' of some of our young superstars who we have all seen on television and who are good enough to make Zimbabwe proud with their 'talent and skills'. As I said, just amazing.

Not a huge fan of Asif's return, but what he did say should be said more often about our current pace attack. Too many bowlers in their comfort zones, without any drive to work hard or willingness to improve and become half-decent (forget decent).

If Asif wants to part of this team then he shouldn't criticise his own team members openly. It's perfectly fine if a former cricketer or a fan make such comments.

 

[Speedster777]

Are you serious?

Do you understand that the prosecution QC in the spotfixing trial also made repeated comments about Wahab Riaz?

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...investigation-after-claims-made-in-trial.html

One of the major problems here is people who don't really know what happened in 2010.

Thanks for pointing that out. Wahab Riaz and Akmal were under the scanner as well but somehow people tend to have a short memory. I don't think it would be appropriate to put the detail here but Akmal brothers and their father are extremely notorious.

 

[shaz619]

I dont think it's about the emphasis on the conviction. Its the emphasis on the evidence against him and the fact that he accepted that he was guilty.

The reasons for sympathy for Amir are age, accepting guilt early, apologising early, not dragging the issue through court, not appealing against the punishment and not running his mouth about how he thinks he's the greatest thing ever.

Afridi & Shehzad talk in the media - they are bigots with mental deformities. A spot fixing druggy talks in the media - he is just trying to "lobby with some chit chat"

I personally find it comical (and slightly embarrassing) that some Asif fans on here are actually trying to cover up for the guy and make it sound like he did not commit those crimes.

Can I ask you some simple yes or no questions man:

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif was involved in Spot Fixing?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif spot fixed to make some extra money on the side?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif took drugs in 2006?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif got in a physical alteration with team mates in 2007?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif got stopped at Dubai airport with 'something suspicious in his wallet' in 2008 which led to him being banned from entering the UAE (a ban which was later lifted in 2011)?

Yes or no - do you think that following the above he was banned by the IPL for 1 year for testing positive for steroids during the 2008 edition of the IPL?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif came out and said that he wants to play in/with the Pakistani cricket team because he is better then all the other fast bowlers currently in the team?

Now don't give me any of this "it's not as clear as yes & no" BS man because it really is. Those are simple Yes & No questions - based on what YOU think happened.

It is incredibly embarrassing that anti asif fans have resorted to ISIS strategy with yes and no nonsense by taking everything out of context to suit their narrow minded and bigotted agenda, quiet frankly that is BS.

The evidence against Asif is nothing in comparison to that of Amir and Butt, their sins were far greater and his guilt was the least. Asid did not receive payment so I will not put him on a level playing field as Amir and Butt.

With the 2007 altercation, i see great use of ISIS strategy because Asif was the victim but is labelled the sinner. The other Q's where is the evidence of his convictions besides the travesty of justice that was spot fixing!!! And where has he specifically outlawed Pakistani bowlers he simply claimed superiority amongst everyone and stated a FACT which people are classyfing as bashing with the pak attack being average

 

[shaz619]

I dont think it's about the emphasis on the conviction. Its the emphasis on the evidence against him and the fact that he accepted that he was guilty.

The reasons for sympathy for Amir are age, accepting guilt early, apologising early, not dragging the issue through court, not appealing against the punishment and not running his mouth about how he thinks he's the greatest thing ever.

Afridi & Shehzad talk in the media - they are bigots with mental deformities. A spot fixing druggy talks in the media - he is just trying to "lobby with some chit chat"

I personally find it comical (and slightly embarrassing) that some Asif fans on here are actually trying to cover up for the guy and make it sound like he did not commit those crimes.

Can I ask you some simple yes or no questions man:

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif was involved in Spot Fixing?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif spot fixed to make some extra money on the side?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif took drugs in 2006?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif got in a physical alteration with team mates in 2007?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif got stopped at Dubai airport with 'something suspicious in his wallet' in 2008 which led to him being banned from entering the UAE (a ban which was later lifted in 2011)?

Yes or no - do you think that following the above he was banned by the IPL for 1 year for testing positive for steroids during the 2008 edition of the IPL?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif came out and said that he wants to play in/with the Pakistani cricket team because he is better then all the other fast bowlers currently in the team?

Now don't give me any of this "it's not as clear as yes & no" BS man because it really is. Those are simple Yes & No questions - based on what YOU think happened.

Wow so Amir is an angel now regardless of his crime being greater then Asif, I don't buy his lawyers strategy to advocate this remorseless naive baby who didn't know what he was doing to get sympathy/liniency.

And Shehzad/Afridi are beyond alleged spot fixing druggies, their garbage performances on and off the pitch vindicate their vile deformities which have plagued Pakistan.

 

[Suleiman]

Asif is a kind, generous man. Goes to cricket academies to help teach the youth about bowling, PCB should use him wisely. Use him as a bowler for 1-2 years and then as a coach or bowling consultant. He'll fix these Rahats and Wabs with their pathetic bowling pies.

He'll also be a fun consultant will reward his apprentices with goodies.

 

[TalhaSyed]

It is incredibly embarrassing that anti asif fans have resorted to ISIS strategy with yes and no nonsense by taking everything out of context to suit their narrow minded and bigotted agenda, quiet frankly that is BS.

The evidence against Asif is nothing in comparison to that of Amir and Butt, their sins were far greater and his guilt was the least. Asid did not receive payment so I will not put him on a level playing field as Amir and Butt.

With the 2007 altercation, i see great use of ISIS strategy because Asif was the victim but is labelled the sinner. The other Q's where is the evidence of his convictions besides the travesty of justice that was spot fixing!!! And where has he specifically outlawed Pakistani bowlers he simply claimed superiority amongst everyone and stated a FACT which people are classyfing as bashing with the pak attack being average

Wow so Amir is an angel now regardless of his crime being greater then Asif, I don't buy his lawyers strategy to advocate this remorseless naive baby who didn't know what he was doing to get sympathy/liniency.

And Shehzad/Afridi are beyond alleged spot fixing druggies, their garbage performances on and off the pitch vindicate their vile deformities which have plagued Pakistan.

So far here is a list of hysterical desperate statements you have come out with since you dont actually have a logical argument to go with:

"Afridi & Shehzad are bigots with brain deformities, meanwhile, Asif is looking to lobby with some chit chat"

"Asif is extra special"

"Anti Asif fans have restored to ISIS strategy"

"Amir & Butts sins are much greater than Asif's"

"Shehzad/Afridi are beyond alleged spot fixing druggies"



What a joke man. Someones getting desperate I see.

Following on from all that nonsense here is a list of questions which you have still failed to answer (along with some very simple Yes/No questions above):

Where/when did I say Amir was innocent or an angel?

Would you please care to expand on how Amir & Butts sins are grater then Asif's? Is it because Asif was better at hiding the money then the other two?

OK - lets say Asif was an angel and was an innocent bystander who happened to get hit by a bat flying past him. For all the other sins, because he wasn't suitably punished for the crimes he committed - he's innocent? Sound logic right there buddy Well he's getting punished now and being banished from the national team - hope that helps put any doubts you had regarding his guilt to rest.

Also - please explain how it was a "travesty of justice" that Asif got punished for spot fixing?

When did I say he 'outlawed Pakistani bowlers'? Do you even know what that means?

And there you have it. You said it yourself:

he simply claimed superiority amongst everyone

This claiming of superiority & this superiority complex which he has - despite having embarrassed the nation on numerous occasions - is exactly the reason he doesn't deserve a re-call

 

[Speedster777]

Inzamam was on Geo Super. He also agreed that Asif was the best new ball bowler in Pak.

 

[shaz619]

So far here is a list of hysterical desperate statements you have come out with since you dont actually have a logical argument to go with:

"Afridi & Shehzad are bigots with brain deformities, meanwhile, Asif is looking to lobby with some chit chat"

"Asif is extra special"

"Anti Asif fans have restored to ISIS strategy"

"Amir & Butts sins are much greater than Asif's"

"Shehzad/Afridi are beyond alleged spot fixing druggies"



What a joke man. Someones getting desperate I see.

Following on from all that nonsense here is a list of questions which you have still failed to answer (along with some very simple Yes/No questions above):

Where/when did I say Amir was innocent or an angel?

Would you please care to expand on how Amir & Butts sins are grater then Asif's? Is it because Asif was better at hiding the money then the other two?

OK - lets say Asif was an angel and was an innocent bystander who happened to get hit by a bat flying past him. For all the other sins, because he wasn't suitably punished for the crimes he committed - he's innocent? Sound logic right there buddy Well he's getting punished now and being banished from the national team - hope that helps put any doubts you had regarding his guilt to rest.

Also - please explain how it was a "travesty of justice" that Asif got punished for spot fixing?

When did I say he 'outlawed Pakistani bowlers'? Do you even know what that means?

And there you have it. You said it yourself:



This claiming of superiority & this superiority complex which he has - despite having embarrassed the nation on numerous occasions - is exactly the reason he doesn't deserve a re-call

I mean with the ISIS strategy your arguments make little sense which displays your desperation you want to take everything literally so there's not much to write about that, you've sugar coated Amir as this angel actually whilst emphasising what Asif did when his guilt was the least, you've also been unable to prove what Asif said classifies as bashing or evidence for his convictions besides the spot fixing one which shall be overturned very very soon iA

 

[shaz619]

So far here is a list of hysterical desperate statements you have come out with since you dont actually have a logical argument to go with:

"Afridi & Shehzad are bigots with brain deformities, meanwhile, Asif is looking to lobby with some chit chat"

"Asif is extra special"

"Anti Asif fans have restored to ISIS strategy"

"Amir & Butts sins are much greater than Asif's"

"Shehzad/Afridi are beyond alleged spot fixing druggies"



What a joke man. Someones getting desperate I see.

Following on from all that nonsense here is a list of questions which you have still failed to answer (along with some very simple Yes/No questions above):

Where/when did I say Amir was innocent or an angel?

Would you please care to expand on how Amir & Butts sins are grater then Asif's? Is it because Asif was better at hiding the money then the other two?

OK - lets say Asif was an angel and was an innocent bystander who happened to get hit by a bat flying past him. For all the other sins, because he wasn't suitably punished for the crimes he committed - he's innocent? Sound logic right there buddy Well he's getting punished now and being banished from the national team - hope that helps put any doubts you had regarding his guilt to rest.

Also - please explain how it was a "travesty of justice" that Asif got punished for spot fixing?

When did I say he 'outlawed Pakistani bowlers'? Do you even know what that means?

And there you have it. You said it yourself:



This claiming of superiority & this superiority complex which he has - despite having embarrassed the nation on numerous occasions - is exactly the reason he doesn't deserve a re-call

That's confidence in his skill what has embarrassing the nation levels below amir and butt have got to do with his confidence in his skill? there is no correlation between the two

I also don't understand how you've come down very hard on Asif yet if you're taking the moral high ground at least come down hard equally on Amir but he's the golden boy whom you've a soft spot for.

And there is no denying that Asif is trying to lobby, he is an Honourable and courageous Pakistani who is trying his level best to return to the Pakistan mashaAllah after the PCB have been holding him down! Asif can do more in one game then what Afridi, Shehzad or any of the other clowns you lust for can do over an entire career

 

[TalhaSyed]

That's confidence in his skill what has embarrassing the nation levels below amir and butt have got to do with his confidence in his skill? there is no correlation between the two

I also don't understand how you've come down very hard on Asif yet if you're taking the moral high ground at least come down hard equally on Amir but he's the golden boy whom you've a soft spot for.

And there is no denying that Asif is trying to lobby, he is an Honourable and courageous Pakistani who is trying his level best to return to the Pakistan mashaAllah after the PCB have been holding him down! Asif can do more in one game then what Afridi, Shehzad or any of the other clowns you lust for can do over an entire career

Can you please rephrase the first question please because in its current form it makes no sense Are you basically (again!) trying to say that Butt & Amir are more guilty then Asif but just in a round about way - yet (again!) still with no explanation or evidence?

I don't want Butt back in the team either since in my mind he also didn't show remorse and didn't apologies until he was told "if you don't apologies - you can't play cricket in Pakistan". However, at least he didn't go running his mouth, trash talking the current Pakistani openers.

Yes - due to the fact that Amir accepted his mistake early on, apologised early on, didn't drag the issue through court and took his punishment like a man rather than appeal against his punishment and try to plead innocent - I do have a soft spot for Amir. Compared to the other two, Amir showed a lot more remorse and dealt with matter much more maturely.

I know, I know "I don't buy into this lawyer BS...showing Amir as a kid BS... blah blah blah..." it doesn't matter if you buy into it or not - the facts are the facts.

PCB is finally showing some guts and giving Asif the treatment he deserves.

more desperation with pointless immature phrases, since you don't actually have a leg to stand on in defence of Asif. Please care to share any posts in which I have said that Shehzad should be in the team or praised his so-called 'talent'?

I guess not.

Just another desperate attempt by you to divert the subject to other players when the fact is that all your arguments regarding Asif are covered with flaws & bias since Asif is a talented bowler.

 

[New Yorker]

I dont think it's about the emphasis on the conviction. Its the emphasis on the evidence against him and the fact that he accepted that he was guilty.

The reasons for sympathy for Amir are age, accepting guilt early, apologising early, not dragging the issue through court, not appealing against the punishment and not running his mouth about how he thinks he's the greatest thing ever.

Afridi & Shehzad talk in the media - they are bigots with mental deformities. A spot fixing druggy talks in the media - he is just trying to "lobby with some chit chat"

I personally find it comical (and slightly embarrassing) that some Asif fans on here are actually trying to cover up for the guy and make it sound like he did not commit those crimes.

Can I ask you some simple yes or no questions man:

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif was involved in Spot Fixing?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif spot fixed to make some extra money on the side?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif took drugs in 2006?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif got in a physical alteration with team mates in 2007?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif got stopped at Dubai airport with 'something suspicious in his wallet' in 2008 which led to him being banned from entering the UAE (a ban which was later lifted in 2011)?

Yes or no - do you think that following the above he was banned by the IPL for 1 year for testing positive for steroids during the 2008 edition of the IPL?

Yes or no - do you think Mohammad Asif came out and said that he wants to play in/with the Pakistani cricket team because he is better then all the other fast bowlers currently in the team?

Now don't give me any of this "it's not as clear as yes & no" BS man because it really is. Those are simple Yes & No questions - based on what YOU think happened.

In other words, what you think is actually of more relevance than what is true?
Got it.

The case against Asif, ie the facts, are there in black and white. He at first refused to be a party to what happened. He then conceded under pressure from his captain. But he did not take money. He may well be guilty of many other things, including taking steroids and using recreational drugs, which latter charge as far as I am concern is his own business. But in that regard he is no worse than say Shoaib Akthar. And the ICC investigation suggests that there are many players around him who were guilty of worse.

 

[New Yorker]

Can you please rephrase the first question please because in its current form it makes no sense Are you basically (again!) trying to say that Butt & Amir are more guilty then Asif but just in a round about way - yet (again!) still with no explanation or evidence?

I don't want Butt back in the team either since in my mind he also didn't show remorse and didn't apologies until he was told "if you don't apologies - you can't play cricket in Pakistan". However, at least he didn't go running his mouth, trash talking the current Pakistani openers.

Yes - due to the fact that Amir accepted his mistake early on, apologised early on, didn't drag the issue through court and took his punishment like a man rather than appeal against his punishment and try to plead innocent - I do have a soft spot for Amir. Compared to the other two, Amir showed a lot more remorse and dealt with matter much more maturely.

I know, I know "I don't buy into this lawyer BS...showing Amir as a kid BS... blah blah blah..." it doesn't matter if you buy into it or not - the facts are the facts.

PCB is finally showing some guts and giving Asif the treatment he deserves.

more desperation with pointless immature phrases, since you don't actually have a leg to stand on in defence of Asif. Please care to share any posts in which I have said that Shehzad should be in the team or praised his so-called 'talent'?

I guess not.

Just another desperate attempt by you to divert the subject to other players when the fact is that all your arguments regarding Asif are covered with flaws & bias since Asif is a talented bowler.

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] has been reposting the evidence ad absurdum on this board. Which shows that yes Asif was much less guilty, and there is no basis for you to argue otherwise. You may make an argument about the redemptive value of contrition, after guilt had been established, but that is another matter. Just give it a rest.

 

[TalhaSyed]

I mean with the ISIS strategy your arguments make little sense which displays your desperation you want to take everything literally so there's not much to write about that, you've sugar coated Amir as this angel actually whilst emphasising what Asif did when his guilt was the least, you've also been unable to prove what Asif said classifies as bashing or evidence for his convictions besides the spot fixing one which shall be overturned very very soon iA

Again - you're stuck like a broken record

- You continue spewing BS about ISIS strategy. I point out your obvious desperation so you come back with "no - you're desperate" good come back mate

- I am taking things as you and Asif are presenting them. If you want what you are saying to be perceived differently then you should say it differently

- Again - how was Asif less guilty then Amir and Butt?

- Oh ok - so now not only is Asif not guilty of any of the sins he has committed, he is also not guilty of bashing potential team mates by claiming he's superior then all of them. Your posts just keep getting smarter and smarter

- Oh and I see you're sticking with the argument of "he was guilty, he was proven to be guilty, a lot of the time he even accepted being guilty - but he wasn't punished so he's not guilty....." Well his banishment from the team is his punishment and it's about time he got what he had coming.

 

[TalhaSyed]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] has been reposting the evidence ad absurdum on this board. Which shows that yes Asif was much less guilty, and there is no basis for you to argue otherwise. You may make an argument about the redemptive value of contrition, after guilt had been established, but that is another matter. Just give it a rest.

In other words, what you think is actually of more relevance than what is true?
Got it.

The case against Asif, ie the facts, are there in black and white. He at first refused to be a party to what happened. He then conceded under pressure from his captain. But he did not take money. He may well be guilty of many other things, including taking steroids and using recreational drugs, which latter charge as far as I am concern is his own business. But in that regard he is no worse than say Shoaib Akthar. And the ICC investigation suggests that there are many players around him who were guilty of worse.

Ok so are those statements untrue?



So no we are going with the attack that he bowled the no ball due to pressure put on him by Salman Butt and not for any sort of financial gain? Did he also admit guilt due to pressure from Salman Butt? Maybe if Butt asked him nicely he would have also agreed to serve Butt's quota of the prison sentence?

Junaid has posted no such evidence to suggest that Asif was less guilty then Amir & Butt. All Junaid has said is that the Fake Sheik's may be over turned & sure - they may be.

However, that does not change the fact that Mazhar Majeed asked Butt, Asif & Amir to spot fix and they did it. All 3 of them then went on to admit doing it.

Sure - the legal conviction may get overturned due to entrapment, however, the bottom line is the 3 players were given a chance to spot fox for money and they took it - including Asif as hilighted in #137 of this thread.

Now if the Asif fans can please give this whole "he was innocent because he hid his money well" thing a rest that would be great

 

[New Yorker]

Again - you're stuck like a broken record

- You continue spewing BS about ISIS strategy. I point out your obvious desperation so you come back with "no - you're desperate" good come back mate

- I am taking things as you and Asif are presenting them. If you want what you are saying to be perceived differently then you should say it differently

- Again - how was Asif less guilty then Amir and Butt?

- Oh ok - so now not only is Asif not guilty of any of the sins he has committed, he is also not guilty of bashing potential team mates by claiming he's superior then all of them. Your posts just keep getting smarter and smarter

- Oh and I see you're sticking with the argument of "he was guilty, he was proven to be guilty, a lot of the time he even accepted being guilty - but he wasn't punished so he's not guilty....." Well his banishment from the team is his punishment and it's about time he got what he had coming.

Eh, this is quite surreal. The court verdict explicitly states that Asif was less guilty than Butt, Majeed, and Amir, who bowled two no balls to Asif's one. Asif was also sentenced to the lowest fine among them.

 

[New Yorker]

Ok so are those statements untrue?



So no we are going with the attack that he bowled the no ball due to pressure put on him by Salman Butt and not for any sort of financial gain? Did he also admit guilt due to pressure from Salman Butt? Maybe if Butt asked him nicely he would have also agreed to serve Butt's quota of the prison sentence?

Junaid has posted no such evidence to suggest that Asif was less guilty then Amir & Butt. All Junaid has said is that the Fake Sheik's may be over turned & sure - they may be.

However, that does not change the fact that Mazhar Majeed asked Butt, Asif & Amir to spot fix and they did it. All 3 of them then went on to admit doing it.

Sure - the legal conviction may get overturned due to entrapment, however, the bottom line is the 3 players were given a chance to spot fox for money and they took it - including Asif as hilighted in #137 of this thread.

Now if the Asif fans can please give this whole "he was innocent because he hid his money well" thing a rest that would be great

No. Check again. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION]?

 

[New Yorker]

Eh, this is quite surreal. The court verdict explicitly states that Asif was less guilty than Butt, Majeed, and Amir, who bowled two no balls to Asif's one. Asif was also sentenced to the lowest fine among them.

Specifically:

29. You have been convicted of the same 2 offences as your captain Salman Butt. You do not have the benefit of a plea but your culpability is less than his, both because of his key role as captain and orchestrator along with Majeed and because your participation in this conspiracy was limited to the bowling of one no ball.

 

[New Yorker]

Ok so are those statements untrue?



So no we are going with the attack that he bowled the no ball due to pressure put on him by Salman Butt and not for any sort of financial gain? Did he also admit guilt due to pressure from Salman Butt? Maybe if Butt asked him nicely he would have also agreed to serve Butt's quota of the prison sentence?

Junaid has posted no such evidence to suggest that Asif was less guilty then Amir & Butt. All Junaid has said is that the Fake Sheik's may be over turned & sure - they may be.

However, that does not change the fact that Mazhar Majeed asked Butt, Asif & Amir to spot fix and they did it. All 3 of them then went on to admit doing it.

Sure - the legal conviction may get overturned due to entrapment, however, the bottom line is the 3 players were given a chance to spot fox for money and they took it - including Asif as hilighted in #137 of this thread.

Now if the Asif fans can please give this whole "he was innocent because he hid his money well" thing a rest that would be great

Do you think this guy : is an argument?

 

[New Yorker]

Ok so are those statements untrue?



So no we are going with the attack that he bowled the no ball due to pressure put on him by Salman Butt and not for any sort of financial gain? Did he also admit guilt due to pressure from Salman Butt? Maybe if Butt asked him nicely he would have also agreed to serve Butt's quota of the prison sentence?

Junaid has posted no such evidence to suggest that Asif was less guilty then Amir & Butt. All Junaid has said is that the Fake Sheik's may be over turned & sure - they may be.

However, that does not change the fact that Mazhar Majeed asked Butt, Asif & Amir to spot fix and they did it. All 3 of them then went on to admit doing it.

Sure - the legal conviction may get overturned due to entrapment, however, the bottom line is the 3 players were given a chance to spot fox for money and they took it - including Asif as hilighted in #137 of this thread.

Now if the Asif fans can please give this whole "he was innocent because he hid his money well" thing a rest that would be great

To say whether they are true or not requires evidence, and for some there is such evidence, for others not.

What you *think* is not evidence.