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No question of removing Tipu Sultan’s portrait from Delhi Assembly: Speaker

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Days after a BJP MLA said the portrait of Tipu Sultan would not be allowed at the Delhi Assembly, Speaker Ram Niwas Goel on Wednesday said there is no question of removing it and alleged that it was the BJP’s habit of creating controversy over every issue.

Goel said if someone removes the portrait of Tipu Sultan from the Martyrs Memorial Gallery of the Assembly, he would take strict action.

Chief Minister Arvind Kejriwal had on Republic Day unveiled portraits of 70 eminent personalities, including that of Tipu Sultan, at the Delhi Assembly.

On Sunday, BJP MLA Manjinder Singh Sirsa had said the portrait of Tipu Sultan would not be allowed to put on display at the Delhi Assembly, alleging the Mysuru ruler was a “tyrant” who “forced” four lakh Hindus and Christians to embrace Islam.

http://indianexpress.com/article/ci...portrait-from-delhi-assembly-speaker-5046654/

I always thought Tipu Sultan was a great hero of 'India'? Or are the extremists of the BJP correct in saying he was a 'tyrant' and forced many to convert?

tipu-sultan.jpg
 
whats next? going to stop every muslim from entering Delhi assembly?
 
For goods sake Delhi is getting a bad name for pollution, population, traffic, rapes can these idiots focus on those issues rather than these? Once you have fixed issues which affect us everyday then feel free to fight for such issues and we will support you.. Morons
 
For goods sake Delhi is getting a bad name for pollution, population, traffic, rapes can these idiots focus on those issues rather than these? Once you have fixed issues which affect us everyday then feel free to fight for such issues and we will support you.. Morons

same happens here.
 
For goods sake Delhi is getting a bad name for pollution, population, traffic, rapes can these idiots focus on those issues rather than these? Once you have fixed issues which affect us everyday then feel free to fight for such issues and we will support you.. Morons

Sure but in your opinoin, how do most Indians see Tipu Sultan? Is what the BJP say about him correct?
[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] [MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]
 
Bring back the Delhi Sultanate. We didn’t have BJP problem when Delhi Sultanate was there.
 
Sure but in your opinoin, how do most Indians see Tipu Sultan? Is what the BJP say about him correct?

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] [MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]

Fairly ambivalent. He is appreciated for standing up to the British. Mysore and his palace are nice places to visit.
 
Fairly ambivalent. He is appreciated for standing up to the British. Mysore and his palace are nice places to visit.

This is what I thought. I remember as a small child my family used to watch an 'Urdu or Hindi' drama about his life and it was fascinating.

Why does the BJP feel different? Is it just due to their extremist nature against Muslims?
 
Sure but in your opinoin, how do most Indians see Tipu Sultan? Is what the BJP say about him correct?

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] [MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]

How am i supposed to know what Indians think of Tippu ??!
 
This is what I thought. I remember as a small child my family used to watch an 'Urdu or Hindi' drama about his life and it was fascinating.

Why does the BJP feel different? Is it just due to their extremist nature against Muslims?

Don't read too much into it. Being anti-Muslim is the flavour of the month these days, from India to Australia, from the USA to Myanmar. It's a larger issue than anything to do with Tipu Sultan.
 
Don't read too much into it. Being anti-Muslim is the flavour of the month these days, from India to Australia, from the USA to Myanmar. It's a larger issue than anything to do with Tipu Sultan.

Fair enough.

How was Tipu's relations with people from other faiths? In general of course.
 
Fair enough.

How was Tipu's relations with people from other faiths? In general of course.

The usual - there were forced conversions of Hindus and Christians. He also massacred some temples in Kerala.
 
It's a well known Fact that Tipu kicked some serious Nimboothari ***** in the erstwhile Travencore region , slaughtering them en masse.
But if we ignore that then he was a great administrator who took some serious strides to make his kingdom powerful.
A member of Jacobin club , he was a close associate of Napoleon and hated the British. Was a pioneer of rocket technology in the world and if I'm not wrong his rockets are still kept in the British museum.
 
Well Tipu was a tyrant who slaughtered and forcefully converted Hindus and Christians in the malabar, Coorg and Mangalore regions but this is a non issue to be honest. Delhi has much more issues to he concerned about than a damn portrait.
 
Sure but in your opinoin, how do most Indians see Tipu Sultan? Is what the BJP say about him correct?

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] [MENTION=146517]Traveller55[/MENTION]


People who have grown up in my time were brought up watching sanjay khan’s Tipu Sultan and stories of him and Jhansi ki rani fighting bravely against British..

Today BJP is creating a different image for Tipu Sultan so maybe in future he is remembered as a tyrant who forced mass conversions and slowly gets eradicated from Indian history who knows.. However his kila in Mysore is a popular tourist spot..
 
There is no doubt that Tipu killed 1000s of Hindus and christians in Travancore Coorg and Mangalore areas. The coorgis hate him with passion. He isnt a black character though, but his treatment of the non muslims was poor.
 
People who have grown up in my time were brought up watching sanjay khan’s Tipu Sultan and stories of him and Jhansi ki rani fighting bravely against British..

Today BJP is creating a different image for Tipu Sultan so maybe in future he is remembered as a tyrant who forced mass conversions and slowly gets eradicated from Indian history who knows.. However his kila in Mysore is a popular tourist spot..

Fighting the british does not make anyone a freedom fighter or worthy of respect. Respect should be based on how the natives were treated by that person, whether he was british or local, hindu or muslim.
 
Tipu wasn't a freedom fighter. No Indian before 1857 was. They were all looking after their own interests and had locally suited goals. Not surprising though considering nationalism as a concept in India was still in infancy and a pan national identity was lacking among the masses.
Can't really go by how TV shows portray historical figures . I remember about a decade ago there used to be this programme on Doordarshan chronicling the life of Siraj ud Daulla. Those idiots went on to the extent of presenting him as a selfless freedom fighter on a mission to expel the British from India :)))
 
Fighting the british does not make anyone a freedom fighter or worthy of respect. Respect should be based on how the natives were treated by that person, whether he was british or local, hindu or muslim.

Is the propaganda true that Tipu killed Brahmins because of their mistreatment of dalits of Malabar?
Sounds like a load of bull to me.
 
Tipu wasn't a freedom fighter. No Indian before 1857 was. They were all looking after their own interests and had locally suited goals. Not surprising though considering nationalism as a concept in India was still in infancy and a pan national identity was lacking among the masses.
Can't really go by how TV shows portray historical figures . I remember about a decade ago there used to be this programme on Doordarshan chronicling the life of Siraj ud Daulla. Those idiots went on to the extent of presenting him as a selfless freedom fighter on a mission to expel the British from India :)))

Well lets be honest here. Tipu did try to unite different parts of India and he was one of the 1st rulers who understood that Britishers could only be defeated through unity. This is fairly undisputed.

However, the Marathas and some other chaps (i guess the Nizam????) betrayed him when Britishers talked to them. This played a pivotal role in his downfall which might have been delayed if he wasnt betrayed.

Ofcourse nationalism wasnt a strong feeling that time but the realization that everyone needs to come together and raise above petty issues itself is commendable.
 
Well lets be honest here. Tipu did try to unite different parts of India and he was one of the 1st rulers who understood that Britishers could only be defeated through unity. This is fairly undisputed.

However, the Marathas and some other chaps (i guess the Nizam????) betrayed him when Britishers talked to them. This played a pivotal role in his downfall which might have been delayed if he wasnt betrayed.

Ofcourse nationalism wasnt a strong feeling that time but the realization that everyone needs to come together and raise above petty issues itself is commendable.
Tipu was a close ally of the French (the guy had friggin liberty tree installed in his capital) and thus hated British to the core (English and French fought many wars in the 18th century across three continents and thus were quite hostile to each other around that time). I agree with you that he realized the true treacherous nature of the East India Company and thus banished them from Mysore effectively ending their trade business there. To top that he even established his own trading company thus competing with EIC on equal basis. But calling him a freedom fighter is going a bit too far. The reasons being -
1. Lack of a coherent ideology
2. Absence of nationalism
3. His gross mistreatment of Hindus and Christians.
Yes He initially sought alliance with the Marathas and Nizam but that didn't work out in the end.
 
Tipu wasn't a freedom fighter. No Indian before 1857 was. They were all looking after their own interests and had locally suited goals. Not surprising though considering nationalism as a concept in India was still in infancy and a pan national identity was lacking among the masses.
Can't really go by how TV shows portray historical figures . I remember about a decade ago there used to be this programme on Doordarshan chronicling the life of Siraj ud Daulla. Those idiots went on to the extent of presenting him as a selfless freedom fighter on a mission to expel the British from India :)))

He was a freedom fighter but not for India as India didn't really exist as one country. India is more like Europe with multiple languages and nations. First the Mughals brought large parts under 1 rule and later the british expanded it. So anyone fighting to keep their area out of british control was a freedom fighter just not an indian freedom fighter and if you look at it many of the people that fought the mughals were probably freedom fighter for their own nations but now that they have all been subsumed under India many have been forgotten.
 
He was a freedom fighter but not for India as India didn't really exist as one country. India is more like Europe with multiple languages and nations. First the Mughals brought large parts under 1 rule and later the british expanded it. So anyone fighting to keep their area out of british control was a freedom fighter just not an indian freedom fighter and if you look at it many of the people that fought the mughals were probably freedom fighter for their own nations but now that they have all been subsumed under India many have been forgotten.

Sure if that suits you.
But the term freedom fighter in the modern Indian history has usually been associated with great men such as Bhagat Singh , Azad , Subhash Bose etc.
Putting Tipu in the category of these fine gentlemen is an insult to their legacy.
They didn't go around forcibly converting the local population who were mercilessly killed if they refused.
There's lot more to a freedom fighter than just fighting for freeing his land.
 
Is the propaganda true that Tipu killed Brahmins because of their mistreatment of dalits of Malabar?
Sounds like a load of bull to me.

The 100% literacy state has the habit of worshipping its oppressors. They even have the moplah riots listed as freedom fight, when the moplahs had no history of fighting the british either before or after the so called moplah rebellion.
 
also didnt Tipu Sultan once fight the marathas because they had ransacked a temple?

there are examples of him standing up for non-muslim places of worship
 
even if he was a third class bigot, it is important that good things are said about him. so that indian muslims see it as an example of patriotism from a muslim ruler, and hindus see it as an example of a benign muslim ruler. a lie which creates peace and harmony is more valuable than truth which creates animosity and hatred.
 
Rani Jhansi was definitely not.
Although a case could be made for the rebellious soldiers under General Bakht Khan.
 
The 100% literacy state has the habit of worshipping its oppressors. They even have the moplah riots listed as freedom fight, when the moplahs had no history of fighting the british either before or after the so called moplah rebellion.

Poor, oppressed Moplas gave a new meaning to Non Corporation lmao.
 
also didnt Tipu Sultan once fight the marathas because they had ransacked a temple?

there are examples of him standing up for non-muslim places of worship

He also donated a lot of money to various hindu temples. However on the other hand he also said stuff like this:

Don't you know I have achieved a great victory recently in Malabar and over four lakh Hindus were converted to Islam? I am determined to march against that cursed Raman Nair very soon. Since I am overjoyed at the prospect of converting him and his subjects to Islam, I have happily abandoned the idea of going back to Srirangapatanam now."

And had this engraved onto his sword:

My victorious sabre is lightning for the destruction of the unbelievers. Ali, the Emir of the Faithful, is victorious for my advantage, and moreover, he destroyed the wicked race who were unbelievers. Praise be to him (God), who is the Lord of the Worlds! Thou art our Lord, support us against the people who are unbelievers. He to whom the Lord giveth victory prevails over all (mankind). Oh Lord, make him victorious, who promoteth the faith of Muhammad. Confound him, who refuseth the faith of Muhammad; and withhold us from those who are so inclined from the true faith. The Lord is predominant over his own works. Victory and conquest are from the Almighty. Bring happy tidings, Oh Muhammad, to the faithful; for God is the kind protector and is the most merciful of the merciful. If God assists thee, thou will prosper. May the Lord God assist thee, Oh Muhammad, with a mighty great victory."

He was clearly a contradictory figure (then again aren’t we all) however there are far more important things for Indian lawmakers to be worrying about than this. Also if these people are so bothered about tyrant kings and rulers then why don’t they show the same displeasure when it comes to non Muslim kings and historical leaders?
 
also didnt Tipu Sultan once fight the marathas because they had ransacked a temple?

there are examples of him standing up for non-muslim places of worship

Tipu did it for politics only. But from inside he was a Muslim and wanted to convert Hindus to Islam, same as any Hindu Raja would have wanted to convert Muslims to Hinduism.

Whatever religion it is, it always result in the same mentality of "Converting others to blossom one's own religion".

Only Secular People are free of this disease and they keep religion secondary thing and give PREFERENCE to HUMANITY over religion.
 
Coronavirus: Karnataka government scraps lessons on Tipu Sultan, Constitution from school syllabus

The Karnataka Department of Public Instruction on Monday deleted chapters on 18th century Mysore ruler Tipu Sultan and some sections on the Indian Constitution from the social science curriculum of Classes 1 to 10 for the academic year 2020-’21, The Hindu reported. The revisions were made as part of the government’s decision to reduce syllabus by 30% in view of the coronavirus pandemic.

The new schedule, uploaded on the Karnataka Textbook Society website, assumes that schools in the state will open on September 1. The syllabus has been reduced to fit into 120 working days.

A chapter in the Class 7 social science book that covers rulers Tipu Sultan and Haider Ali, historical sites in Mysuru, and the administration of commissioners was dropped. The textbook committee said the chapters were limited as the units do not require separate classes and that they “can be introduced through assignments” and presentations. While Deccan Herald reported that chapters covering Tipu Sultan were retained in the Class 6, Class 7, and Class 10 books, according to The Hindu, it was removed from the Class 10 syllabus too.

Units covering Sultan, Ali, the rebellion of Halagali Bedas and the rebellion of Kittur Chenamma-Rayanna for Class 10 students have been truncated and will now be taught “through project and chart preparation”.

Besides this, “entire lessons” on Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad were removed from the Class 7 curriculum. The state government said this was done as “pupils will study the same in Class 9”. Chapters on the Drafting Committee of the Constitution and salient features of the Constitution have also been dropped from the Class 7 curriculum for the same reason.

Bharatiya Janata Party leaders in Karnataka have repeatedly demanded that sections on Tipu Sultan be removed from school textbooks. However, in December 2019, a state government-appointed committee suggested retaining these sections. “It is impossible to teach the history of Mysore without the introduction to Tipu,” the panel said, according to The Wire.

After forming the government last year, the ** Yediyurappa-led government had announced that it would discontinue Tipu Jayanti celebrations in the state, which had been taking place under the rule of the Congress government and later the Congress-Janata Dal (Secular) dispensation.

Managing Director of Karnataka Textbook Society Made Gowda told The Hindu that the decision to remove the lessons was made after discussions with members of the textbook committee, subject experts, teachers and Department of State Educational Research and Training officials.

“The revised syllabus has been sent to the Department of Public Instruction and the education minister has received the proposals,” Gowda told The Times of India.

Meanwhile, unidentified officials from the textbook committee told The Deccan Herald that the decision was made “to condense the chapters” and get rid of repetitions. “Trimming does not mean we have removed half of the syllabus from textbooks,” an official said. “It is only keeping in mind the repetition we have condensed the chapters. In case students study about a particular dynasty in higher grades, then the same had been removed from lower grades.”

Earlier this month, the Central Board of Secondary Education had deleted chapters on federalism, citizenship, nationalism, and secularism from the political science curriculum of Class 11 for the academic year 2020-’21. The board also cited the need to rationalise the syllabus amid the coronavirus pandemic. The political science curriculum for Class 10 students was also restructured to remove chapters on democracy and diversity; gender, religion and caste; popular struggles and movement, among other sections.

https://scroll.in/latest/968803/cor...tipu-sultan-constitution-from-school-syllabus
 
whether he is evil or good; he is most certainly part of history and probably one of the most well known figures from that region. So how can u take him out of history books?
 
BJP showing its aukaat as expected.

You do realize that this is only a temporary thing done for this session only because of the pandemic.

Tipu Sultan was a bigot who killed hindus. Why the need to teach about him and glorify him?

What is the need to glorify hindu hating bigots in Indian text books?

Whether anyone likes it or not, India is 80 per cent hindu and hindu hating personalities cannot be glorified here. Enough of that has happened under leftist and muslim HRD ministers.
 
You do realize that this is only a temporary thing done for this session only because of the pandemic.

Tipu Sultan was a bigot who killed hindus. Why the need to teach about him and glorify him?

What is the need to glorify hindu hating bigots in Indian text books?

Whether anyone likes it or not, India is 80 per cent hindu and hindu hating personalities cannot be glorified here. Enough of that has happened under leftist and muslim HRD ministers.

I thought india was secular so religion shouldn’t matter

In any case whether he is a bigot or a hero; the point is he is one the most historically significant personalities from that region of the indian subcontinent so at the very least he deserves a discussion in a ‘history’ syllabus
 
If a hindu reverts to Islam with his muslim friend helping him in the process,does it mean he is forced to become muslim?

You can't change forcibly anybody's beliefs. only way through which it can be achieved is through education. Thus I don't believe these forced conversions are a reality.

But we have examples of so many communities reverting to Islam happily,so also proves that these forced conversion stories are more or less just myth.
 
You do realize that this is only a temporary thing done for this session only because of the pandemic.

Tipu Sultan was a bigot who killed hindus. Why the need to teach about him and glorify him?

What is the need to glorify hindu hating bigots in Indian text books?

Whether anyone likes it or not, India is 80 per cent hindu and hindu hating personalities cannot be glorified here. Enough of that has happened under leftist and muslim HRD ministers.

Same reason Marathas are glorified or Ashoka is, It's history Tipu Sultan was Indian its not like Qasim or Ghazni is glorified.

Also how is reading in history books glorifying.
 
Same reason Marathas are glorified or Ashoka is, It's history Tipu Sultan was Indian its not like Qasim or Ghazni is glorified.

Also how is reading in history books glorifying.


Ashoka was a bigot? Really?

Do you know what ancestry Haider Ali claimed?

You need to read the books to realize how Tipu sultan was glorified.
 
If a hindu reverts to Islam with his muslim friend helping him in the process,does it mean he is forced to become muslim?

You can't change forcibly anybody's beliefs. only way through which it can be achieved is through education. Thus I don't believe these forced conversions are a reality.

But we have examples of so many communities reverting to Islam happily,so also proves that these forced conversion stories are more or less just myth.
I see even Hindus now trying to help muslims revert back to Hinduism (ghar vaapsi) and most of the times it’s the same sentiments that you have professed. However, they would be executed if they tried doing this in Islamic countries and even within their country they are ridiculed for this, hence the angst and the calls to wipe out Tipu Sultan and other such figures from history books. Latter is a easier way to channel your anger and frustration.
 
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Sanghis have nothing to do despite country facing so many problems, so they are doing what comes naturally to them, which is to spread their bigotry and their clueless bhakts lap that up with both hands.
 
Sanghis have nothing to do despite country facing so many problems, so they are doing what comes naturally to them, which is to spread their bigotry and their clueless bhakts lap that up with both hands.

This is a welcome step to lessen the burden on students. History books need some vetting so that students don't waste time on useless topics.
 
Same reason Marathas are glorified or Ashoka is, It's history Tipu Sultan was Indian its not like Qasim or Ghazni is glorified.

Also how is reading in history books glorifying.

marathas are glorified because bollywood is based in mumbai and they dare not show an alternate view of the marathas. they were no heroes. Just that every religion or ethnicity props up bigots and despots from their community as it gives them a sense of machismo.
 
You do realize that this is only a temporary thing done for this session only because of the pandemic.

Tipu Sultan was a bigot who killed hindus. Why the need to teach about him and glorify him?

What is the need to glorify hindu hating bigots in Indian text books?

If you hold all past rulers by the same definition then esch and everyone was a killer

Maybe because india is a secular nation no? he was native born, a sultan, he had a huge impact on the region and its history Good or bad his story must be told

You cant wipe history away

Anyway he was lauded until most recently as a great nationalist who fought the foreign invaders and his life was dramatised, whats changed all of a sudden?
 
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Anyway he was lauded until most recently as a great nationalist who fought the foreign invaders and his life was dramatised, whats changed all of a sudden?

Inspired by the BLM movement. Time to cull bigots from history books.
 
BJP can do whatever they like. More should be taught about this valiant man in our text books.

It was nice to see IK mentioning him as a hero after shooting down Indian jets last year.
 
Inspired by the BLM movement. Time to cull bigots from history books.

Not gonna happen You cant cull people from history books Hitler hasnt been culled, neither has genghis khan or asoka

Yes not idolise them but they need to be there as a reference to learn from

And anyway tipu isnt such a clear case Can i ask why until recently he was lauded in india if ur saying he was such a tyrant?

You avoided the qs last time
 
Ashoka was a bigot? Really?

Maybe not a bigot, but he killed countless people, which was the norm in his time. And then when he conquered all the land he wanted, he pretended to turn pacifist. Like Akbar did with his Sulh-i-kul.


Do you know what ancestry Haider Ali claimed?

Do you realize how many ancestors a person will have? If he claimed Syed or Afghan descent from one of his ancestors, that does not mean he did not have most of his ancestors from the subcontinent.

You need to read the books to realize how Tipu sultan was glorified.

As someone who beat the British. Invented the Mysore Rockets. Made Mysore have one of the highest living standards in the world.
 
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BJP can do whatever they like. More should be taught about this valiant man in our text books.

It was nice to see IK mentioning him as a hero after shooting down Indian jets last year.

There is a street named after him in Karachi. Khayaban e Tipu sultan
 
Not gonna happen You cant cull people from history books Hitler hasnt been culled, neither has genghis khan or asoka

Yes not idolise them but they need to be there as a reference to learn from

And anyway tipu isnt such a clear case Can i ask why until recently he was lauded in india if ur saying he was such a tyrant?

You avoided the qs last time

You can always cull people from text books. History is taught as stories of rulers who killed their kin and the opponents alike to stay in power. Nothing wrong with that. Victory belongs to the powerful. But there is no other lesson to learn. Current generation should be taught why their history was the way it was and how it can a repeat be prevented. History shouldn't be just about stories and glorifying emperors, but should help students understand why the world is the way it is now.

indian history as taught in text books is highly sanitized and its aim is to hide uncomfortable truths. but the truth gets owned by right wing and people get to know about it anyway. Better the text books taught everything by highlighting what went wrong. tipu was lauded due to appeasement. tyrants like aurangzeb are also shown as great rulers. indian hindus are a beghairat qaum. years of emasculation has made their slave mentality dominant and they feel good only when they worship their oppressors.
 
Maybe not a bigot, but he killed countless people, which was the norm in his time. And then when he conquered all the land he wanted, he pretended to turn pacifist. Like Akbar did with his Sulh-i-kul.




Do you realize how many ancestors a person will have? If he claimed Syed or Afghan descent from one of his ancestors, that does not mean he did not have most of his ancestors from the subcontinent.



As someone who beat the British. Invented the Mysore Rockets. Made Mysore have one of the highest living standards in the world.

Modi has also done a lot of good things, but what will remain in the collective memory of indian muslims regarding modi after generations? Modi is our Tipu and Auragzeb (after adjusting for the difference in eras).
 
Indians lack heroes and they celebrate mediocrity and their slave mentality. The sepoy mutiny is celebrated as the first war of independence, when beghairat hindu soldiers rebelled against the british rulers who brought civilization, and marched towards delhi to declare the coward bahadur shah as their ruler. The feaudal lords who had their power taken away by the british sahibs joined the mutiny to reclaim their turf but are now celebrated as freedom fighters.
 
Indians lack heroes and they celebrate mediocrity and their slave mentality. The sepoy mutiny is celebrated as the first war of independence, when beghairat hindu soldiers rebelled against the british rulers who brought civilization, and marched towards delhi to declare the coward bahadur shah as their ruler. The feaudal lords who had their power taken away by the british sahibs joined the mutiny to reclaim their turf but are now celebrated as freedom fighters.

Would be nice to see Indian govts not only remove all reference to Tipu Sultan as an Indian hero, but then go on to glorify the British who usurped him and brought civilisation and order to the Indian subcontinent.

I feel this should be Modi's next step, once the cleansing of Mughal worship has been done. This is already reflected by grateful Hindu communities in Britain who are model citizens and continue their tradition of loyal service to the Queen.
 
Would be nice to see Indian govts not only remove all reference to Tipu Sultan as an Indian hero, but then go on to glorify the British who usurped him and brought civilisation and order to the Indian subcontinent.

I feel this should be Modi's next step, once the cleansing of Mughal worship has been done. This is already reflected by grateful Hindu communities in Britain who are model citizens and continue their tradition of loyal service to the Queen.

The other day I tagged you as wanted to share a stanza from one of my favourite poems Gunga Din.

You Lazarushian-leather Gunga Din!
Though I’ve belted you and flayed you,
By the livin’ Gawd that made you,
You’re a better man than I am, Gunga Din!

When I read it, I feel I am Gunga Din, being flayed by a true Brit (not you) and earning the sahibs admiration for my dogged loyalty.
 
Anyway he was lauded until most recently as a great nationalist who fought the foreign invaders and his life was dramatised, whats changed all of a sudden?
Because he was a muslim and hence doesn't suit into their warped narrative?
 
I don't even know from where does all this hate for him came from? By all accounts, he was a specular guy and very bravely fought British.
 
Maybe not a bigot, but he killed countless people, which was the norm in his time. And then when he conquered all the land he wanted, he pretended to turn pacifist. Like Akbar did with his Sulh-i-kul.




Do you realize how many ancestors a person will have? If he claimed Syed or Afghan descent from one of his ancestors, that does not mean he did not have most of his ancestors from the subcontinent.



As someone who beat the British. Invented the Mysore Rockets. Made Mysore have one of the highest living standards in the world.
None of these matters as Tipu Sultan was a muslim.
 
I don't even know from where does all this hate for him came from? By all accounts, he was a specular guy and very bravely fought British.

I am sure you will not have an answer as usual, but do try. Dalits sided with British against the marathas (elgar parishad) and that is celebrated. Why is that when they had sided with the british?

Siding with or fighting against british doesn't make anyone a freedom fighter or a traitor. People were fighting for various reasons. It is the post independence darbari historians who turned them into freedom fighters.

also which book have you read on tipu. Are you aware of his kerala expeditions and what is written on his sword?
 
Talk about everything bar the coronavirus. Or China.

Gotta love the BJP.
 
whether he is evil or good; he is most certainly part of history and probably one of the most well known figures from that region. So how can u take him out of history books?

Tipu will certainly be remembered as a bigot who butchered Christians and Hindus but yeah he was an able administrator and you simply cant wrote him off history . The Anglo-Mysore wars played a crucial role in development of Bangalore city too.
 
The other day I tagged you as wanted to share a stanza from one of my favourite poems Gunga Din.



When I read it, I feel I am Gunga Din, being flayed by a true Brit (not you) and earning the sahibs admiration for my dogged loyalty.

Thanks for sharing, never heard it before actually, although I do recall referring fondly to a fellow poster as Gunga Din.
 
Maybe not a bigot, but he killed countless people, which was the norm in his time. And then when he conquered all the land he wanted, he pretended to turn pacifist. Like Akbar did with his Sulh-i-kul.




Do you realize how many ancestors a person will have? If he claimed Syed or Afghan descent from one of his ancestors, that does not mean he did not have most of his ancestors from the subcontinent.



As someone who beat the British. Invented the Mysore Rockets. Made Mysore have one of the highest living standards in the world.

Last part is laughable . He spent pretty much all of his treasury on wars with the British . People were starving in mysore as a result.
 
Tipu will certainly be remembered as a bigot who butchered Christians and Hindus but yeah he was an able administrator and you simply cant wrote him off history . The Anglo-Mysore wars played a crucial role in development of Bangalore city too.

Instead of removing this creature (picked up this word recently from someone) from text books, his tyranny should be taught to the current generation. this is why i never vote for bjp. they are not right wing enough.
 
Asoka did one of the biggest ‘hands’ in history. Killed hundreds of thousands of people and then one day had ‘awakening’ lol after he has already conquered lands he wanted and this is supposed to wash away all his sins.
 
Last part is laughable . He spent pretty much all of his treasury on wars with the British . People were starving in mysore as a result.

It is a historical fact that during his rule Mysore had one of the highest level of real wages and standards of living anywhere in the world
 
Also simple fact is that in the Ango Mysore wars, the Marathas (who indians have had new found love for in recent years and try to laughably equate it to the Mughals in significance) supported the real foreign invaders ie British whilst Tipu Sultan valiantly fought them
 
Also simple fact is that in the Ango Mysore wars, the Marathas (who indians have had new found love for in recent years and try to laughably equate it to the Mughals in significance) supported the real foreign invaders ie British whilst Tipu Sultan valiantly fought them

Tipu also supported the real foreign invaders ie, the french. Not a question of foreign or native, but who was the most bigot. There is a reason the british are not seen unfavourably compared to aurangzeb despite the british rule being the most recent memory.
 
Also simple fact is that in the Ango Mysore wars, the Marathas (who indians have had new found love for in recent years and try to laughably equate it to the Mughals in significance) supported the real foreign invaders ie British whilst Tipu Sultan valiantly fought them

Honestly I feel that this new found love for Marathas is simply unfounded insecurity. Indians evolved from primitive warfare thousands of years ago, Hindus brought the world meditation and vegetarian concepts while we British were still living in caves and scarfing boiled mutton with cabbage mulch.

Instead of taking pride in their evolved and genteel teachings, now Indians try to attach themselves to some reimagined idyllic times of warfare with swords and elephants. I feel this is British soft power eroding Indians self identity with big budget tv series like Game of Thrones.
 
Honestly I feel that this new found love for Marathas is simply unfounded insecurity. Indians evolved from primitive warfare thousands of years ago, Hindus brought the world meditation and vegetarian concepts while we British were still living in caves and scarfing boiled mutton with cabbage mulch.

Instead of taking pride in their evolved and genteel teachings, now Indians try to attach themselves to some reimagined idyllic times of warfare with swords and elephants. I feel this is British soft power eroding Indians self identity with big budget tv series like Game of Thrones.

The new found love for Marathas obviously has to do with insecurities esp since the recent anti Mughal turn and classifying them as ‘foreigners’ means there aren’t any major modern (post 1500 AD) great ‘Indian’ empires to big up. So they are left with bigging up the Marathas who on a relative scale to Mughals are an insignificant regional players I I was watching some trailer on a move where some hindu kingdom (maybe Maratha only) attacks the Mughals and the trailer says “surgical strike against the Mughals” :))). And then there’s some new movie on panipat where the Marathas got their behinds whooped but the trailer made it seem like they were victors in some way.
 
The new found love for Marathas obviously has to do with insecurities esp since the recent anti Mughal turn and classifying them as ‘foreigners’ means there aren’t any major modern (post 1500 AD) great ‘Indian’ empires to big up. So they are left with bigging up the Marathas who on a relative scale to Mughals are an insignificant regional players I I was watching some trailer on a move where some hindu kingdom (maybe Maratha only) attacks the Mughals and the trailer says “surgical strike against the Mughals” :))). And then there’s some new movie on panipat where the Marathas got their behinds whooped but the trailer made it seem like they were victors in some way.

Not victors but martyrs.

Insecurity and false sense of superiority complex go hand in hand, I see Insecurity helping many Indians work harder and I see superiority complex doing the opposite.

The only positive aspect of Superiority complex is ability to question and take risks but overall it's detrimental in my opinion.

I don't think insecurity is necessarily a bad thing if it helps improving the general population to work harder, baseless brainwashing and rewriting history though are foolish which is what is happening here.
 
"It is far better to live like a lion for a day than to live like a jackal for a hundred years. "

The great hero of Indian sub-continent said that when facing the British troops just before he was martyred. There is so much we can learn from just this phrase. Not only it talks about unity and faith, it talks about bravery, and principles. It talks about treason and forgiveness too.

India, Pakistan, Bangladesh can learn from this iconic hero. Just because he was a Muslim doesn't mean that his teachings and stories should be omitted, along with his portraits.
 
You can always cull people from text books. History is taught as stories of rulers who killed their kin and the opponents alike to stay in power. Nothing wrong with that. Victory belongs to the powerful. But there is no other lesson to learn. Current generation should be taught why their history was the way it was and how it can a repeat be prevented. History shouldn't be just about stories and glorifying emperors, but should help students understand why the world is the way it is now.

indian history as taught in text books is highly sanitized and its aim is to hide uncomfortable truths. but the truth gets owned by right wing and people get to know about it anyway. Better the text books taught everything by highlighting what went wrong. tipu was lauded due to appeasement. tyrants like aurangzeb are also shown as great rulers. indian hindus are a beghairat qaum. years of emasculation has made their slave mentality dominant and they feel good only when they worship their oppressors.

Interesting. There is a new found zeal visible in Hindus of Modi's India. Do you think they have what it takes to remove this daagh of beghairaty and stand as an honourable nation ?
 
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"It is far better to live like a lion for a day than to live like a jackal for a hundred years. "

The great hero of Indian sub-continent said that when facing the British troops just before he was martyred. There is so much we can learn from just this phrase. Not only it talks about unity and faith, it talks about bravery, and principles. It talks about treason and forgiveness too.

India, Pakistan, Bangladesh can learn from this iconic hero. Just because he was a Muslim doesn't mean that his teachings and stories should be omitted, along with his portraits.

Such a beautiful quote and almost every kid is taught this or atleast used to be.

It contains in it the idea of a mard-e-momin's approach towards life.

I guess it might be a bit difficult to understand for adherents of certain religions or cultures.
 
Such a beautiful quote and almost every kid is taught this or atleast used to be.

It contains in it the idea of a mard-e-momin's approach towards life.

I guess it might be a bit difficult to understand for adherents of certain religions or cultures.

Our spirit animal is the cockroach and we value survival over honour.
 
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