No Trust Motion against PM Imran Khan dismissed, President dismisses the National Assembly

[Hermoine Green]

So a ruling party can keep ruling as the speaker can keep rejecting a NCM and that ruling can't be challenged?

No, its not like it. Its not easy for speaker to reject the NCM, if there was no involvement of foreign powers there would have been NO chance of rejecting the NCM.

What was the basis of NCM? Corruption? NO. Any other sin of gov? NO.

Basis was only one and i.e Absolutely Not which Ex PM IK Said to the foreign powers. PDM in their every press conference mentioned that we want to remove PM IK because he has made our western friends angry.

So Under Article 5, Speaker had the power to reject the motion and he used the said power.

Otherwise, there was no chance to reject the motion.

 

[Hermoine Green]

Who decides the legality of a NCM?

Speaker, but under the given constitution. If speaker has to reject the motion he needs to do it under law.

 

[MenInG]

ISLAMABAD: PTI Chairman Imran Khan has been de-notified as the prime minister of Pakistan, a statement from the Cabinet Division said Sunday after the dissolution of the National Assembly.

However, under Article 224 of the Constitution of Pakistan — once a notification is issued — Imran Khan can continue as the prime minister for 15 days till the appointment of a caretaker prime minister.

There is still, however, no clarity over how a caretaker prime minister will be appointed as the National Assembly has been dissolved — and the people who appoint the person, the Opposition leader in the National Assembly and the premier, are no longer in office.

Read more: President Arif Alvi approves dissolution of National Assembly on PM Imran Khan's advice

If Imran Khan continues to be the prime minister for selected days, he will not be empowered to make decisions that an elected head of the government can make.

“Consequent upon dissolution of the National Assembly by the president of Pakistan, in terms of Article 58(1) read with Article 48(1) of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, vide Ministry of Parliamentary Affairs’ SRO No. 487(1)/2022, dated 3rd April, 2022, Mr Imran Ahmad Khan Niazi ceased to hold the Office of the Prime Minister of Pakistan, with immediate effect,” said the notification from the Cabinet Division.

The de-notification of Imran Khan comes hours after ex-deputy speaker of the NA Qasim Suri abruptly dismissed the no-confidence motion against the PTI chairman and termed it "unconstitutional", saying that it was backed by "foreign powers".

Following the dismissal of the no-confidence motion, President Arif Alvi dissolved the National Assembly under Article 58(1) read with Article 48(1) upon the advice of the ex-premier.

Imran Khan — addressing the nation shortly after the session's adjournment — sought fresh elections and asked Pakistanis to gear up for the polls as the Opposition lashed out at the government's act of dismissing the motion as "unconstitutional".

Not wasting time after the setback in the National Assembly, the Opposition moved to the Supreme Court of Pakistan, with the court itself taking notice of the political crisis.

Chief Justice of Pakistan Umar Ata Bandial — during the hearing earlier today — said that "any order passed by the Prime Minister and the President shall be subject to the order of this court".

Legal experts Muneeb Farooq, Salman Akram Raja, Salaar Khan, Reema Omar, and Saroop Ijaz termed the government's move to use Article 5 for dismissing the no-confidence motion unconstitutional.

“When a [no trust] motion has been tabled and when the attorney general has told the court that voting will go through, then this [move] seems to be a disregard of constitutional provisions,” Ijaz told Geo.tv.

Advocate Khan said to address the rather "flaccid argument", if votes were bought or sold, the remedy is in the Constitution — disqualification of the defecting member.

"Despite what overnight constitutional experts may say, it doesn’t give you license to chuck the Constitution out the window," the legal expert added.

 

[Hermoine Green]

Nothing, which is why the court should overrule the speaker and let the vote happen. However who knows how long that will take. So IK will remain PM till then. Unless the opposition excepts early elections.

[MENTION=90888]Itachi[/MENTION]

No its not like it. PM IK will continue for 15 days, with in 15 days Head of state, Opposition had to sit together in order to finalize the members of interim Govt.

But yes, if the Opposition rejects to sit with gov, then President will have to select members for Interim govt and then elections in next 90 days.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

It may not be as straightforward. If opposition is truly having that mafia mentality, they can bring the street power and it can be a bloody election which can swing either direction.

The opposition will go to court, as they will eventually win their. However who knows how long the court takes, so their is a chance they might accept early elections. And its IK who has been using the street power card and not the opposition. In street power they are no match for him.

If ISPR and Bajwa to remain truly neutral, the next logical step for Imran is to get into electoral alliance with TLP.

IK's base is middle class and upper middle class people from across the country. These people will not support TLP. TLP is more far right than the traditional Mullah parties. However he can appeal to TLP supporters by promising no reversal of the Khatm e Nabuwat (finality of the prophet) law.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

[MENTION=90888]Itachi[/MENTION]

No its not like it. PM IK will continue for 15 days, with in 15 days Head of state, Opposition had to sit together in order to finalize the members of interim Govt.

But yes, if the Opposition rejects to sit with gov, then President will have to select members for Interim govt and then elections in next 90 days.

If the opposition does not agree to the caretake govt, then elections will not be credible. The President is a member of PTI. I just don't see any way in the courts allowing elections to happen like this.

 

[Hermoine Green]

If the opposition does not agree to the caretake govt, then elections will not be credible. The President is a member of PTI. I just don't see any way in the courts allowing elections to happen like this.

Thats what the LAW says. Assemblies have been broken, there will be new elections.

 

[Waleed93]

PTI supporters need to turn on the TV and have a look at those manhoos faces of shameless journalists from GEO News.

They are literally shell shocked to such an extent, Saleem Safi in his program Jirga said "umeed hai k SC ki taraf se acha faisla aayega".

The level of these paid journalists is pathetic.

 

[MenInG]

PTI supporters need to turn on the TV and have a look at those manhoos faces of shameless journalists from GEO News.

They are literally shell shocked to such an extent, Saleem Safi in his program Jirga said "umeed hai k SC ki taraf se acha faisla aayega".

The level of these paid journalists is pathetic.

Think we can have pity on them - Its a tough pill to swallow.

 

[SportsWarrior]

What is the opinion of the Supreme Court and other constitutional experts?

https://www.dawn.com/news/1683231/v...ysts-weigh-in-on-dismissal-of-no-trust-motion

 

[Bewal Express]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1683231/v...ysts-weigh-in-on-dismissal-of-no-trust-motion

Those guys they quoted are mostly supporters of the mafia.

 

[Bewal Express]

PTI supporters need to turn on the TV and have a look at those manhoos faces of shameless journalists from GEO News.

They are literally shell shocked to such an extent, Saleem Safi in his program Jirga said "umeed hai k SC ki taraf se acha faisla aayega".

The level of these paid journalists is pathetic.

The Americans don't just but politicians, they buy the media.

 

[daytrader]

https://www.dawn.com/news/1683231/v...ysts-weigh-in-on-dismissal-of-no-trust-motion

Biased dawn

 

[Technics 1210]

it certainly can. SC gives the interpretation of the constitution. It will need to decide whether speakers action tranlsates to the action of house or not. If it does not, then article 69 & article 5 won't be applicable here.

Who made you an expert in Pakistan SC and Constitution when you have no idea of what Secularism means in the Indian constitution?

At thread - what a move by IK! 3 wickets in one reverse swing yorker! Wickets uprooted!

 

[Major]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] a reminder, a deputy speaker does not have unlimited powers. Pti fans will harp about article 69, but they forget the reason why the judiciary exists.

Judiciary exist to interpret the laws and thats is what the CJP will do. If they deem the actions of deputy speak unconstitutional, pti fans will be crying about article 69 and than would be bashing judiciary...

Right now its foreign powers, 15 days later it would be evil judiciary

 

[IMMY69]

It seems supporters of corrupt looters are really scared.

If democracy if the best revenge then they should be over the moon that an election is being called...

 

[MenInG]

 

[Waleed93]

They have been crying for ages for elections.

Imran Khan is now giving them the opportunity they dreamt about to prove themselves in the upcoming elections, and they are still moaning.

They know they have lost the public support, and they don't have Imran's ability to attract crowds to their circuses, thus the reason behind all this drama.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

According to Articel 69, its clearly stated that SC can not overrule NA decision.

Even, 2 days back SC gave the same verdict in another issue. Read it for yourself (last point)

You are assuming the Supreme Court has integrity and that they would be consistent. They did not want to deal with that case and used the Article 69 clause. I don't think they will use that for not letting the no confidence vote happen.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

They have been crying for ages for elections.

Imran Khan is now giving them the opportunity they dreamt about to prove themselves in the upcoming elections, and they are still moaning.

They know they have lost the public support, and they don't have Imran's ability to attract crowds to their circuses, thus the reason behind all this drama.

Plus if they lose they cant use the "selected" insult at IK now.

 

[cricketjoshila]

No, its not like it. Its not easy for speaker to reject the NCM, if there was no involvement of foreign powers there would have been NO chance of rejecting the NCM.

What was the basis of NCM? Corruption? NO. Any other sin of gov? NO.

Basis was only one and i.e Absolutely Not which Ex PM IK Said to the foreign powers. PDM in their every press conference mentioned that we want to remove PM IK because he has made our western friends angry.

So Under Article 5, Speaker had the power to reject the motion and he used the said power.

Otherwise, there was no chance to reject the motion.

The basis of all NCMs in every parliament is that the leader of the house has lost the majority.

Tbf PTI never had majority. They were ruling with the help of other parties and those parties withdrew support.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don't know what the Pakistan SC will decide.

But in India, if the speakers decisions in a NCM is challenged in the supreme court, the judgement usually asks the leader to prove his majority on the floor of the house.

 

[FollowThru]

You are assuming the Supreme Court has integrity and that they would be consistent. They did not want to deal with that case and used the Article 69 clause. I don't think they will use that for not letting the no confidence vote happen.

Its done and dusted.

Since the ruling by Deputy Speaker to dismiss NCM, there have been further events that have gone too far now.

No one will like to get involved in inquiry of letter gate. PDM parties themselves will try to avoid it. Specially when some parties were in favour of Early Elections and others were in favour of NCM.

 

[realitygaf]

1. Under Article 58 of the Pakistan Constitution, the President of Pakistan is allowed to dissolve the National Assembly on the Prime Minister's advice.

HOWEVER

A Prime Minister against whom a vote of no confidence has NOT been voted on, the Prime Minister is not allowed to ask the President to dissolve the House

2. To get around this, the Deputy Speaker first dismissed the no confidence motion from the opposition parties, He did this on the basis of Article 5 which states the the opposition is not loyal to Pakistan thus indicating that only Imran Khan is loyal to constitution while every other member is not. (This is in fact not democracy)

So the argument is that the letter being used by Imran Khan which did not in fact prove Foreign interference in any legal or relative manner is being used to push a dictatorial push to deny the opposition right to move on with no confidence vote


One may not like the opposition and consider them corrupt but what Imran Khan and Deputy Speaker have done is no different than what Army has done for decades in Pakistan with martial law powers. If Imran Khan supporters accept this as an acceptable alternative they should accept that if Army intervenes and takes over, they will be hypocrites by calling the Army argument illegal.

Article 5 mentioned and screenshot above is about being loyal to the constitution , Imran Khan and Deputy Speaker have proven not loyal to the constitution by dismissing the opposition's constitutional right to no confidence vote.

The Deputy Speaker is only allowed to declare the results of the vote, not dismiss it before it happens.

By pushing the dismissal using Article 5, the Deputy Speaker and Imran Khan have disobeyed Article 6 of the Pakistan constitution which states:

Shame on Imran Khan for taking the law in his own hands

Shame on Deputy Speaker for helping Imran Khan taking law in his own hands

Shame on Imran Khan's supporters for being blind sheep and hypocrites

 

[FollowThru]

I don't know what the Pakistan SC will decide.

But in India, if the speakers decisions in a NCM is challenged in the supreme court, the judgement usually asks the leader to prove his majority on the floor of the house.

Good point.
And what's the rule in India wrt horse trading and floor crossing?

 

[MenInG]

I am guessing Imran's lawyers have also discovered the same legal bits as above?

 

[Bewal Express]

1. Under Article 58 of the Pakistan Constitution, the President of Pakistan is allowed to dissolve the National Assembly on the Prime Minister's advice.

HOWEVER

A Prime Minister against whom a vote of no confidence has NOT been voted on, the Prime Minister is not allowed to ask the President to dissolve the House

2. To get around this, the Deputy Speaker first dismissed the no confidence motion from the opposition parties, He did this on the basis of Article 5 which states the the opposition is not loyal to Pakistan thus indicating that only Imran Khan is loyal to constitution while every other member is not. (This is in fact not democracy)

So the argument is that the letter being used by Imran Khan which did not in fact prove Foreign interference in any legal or relative manner is being used to push a dictatorial push to deny the opposition right to move on with no confidence vote


One may not like the opposition and consider them corrupt but what Imran Khan and Deputy Speaker have done is no different than what Army has done for decades in Pakistan with martial law powers. If Imran Khan supporters accept this as an acceptable alternative they should accept that if Army intervenes and takes over, they will be hypocrites by calling the Army argument illegal.

Article 5 mentioned and screenshot above is about being loyal to the constitution , Imran Khan and Deputy Speaker have proven not loyal to the constitution by dismissing the opposition's constitutional right to no confidence vote.

The Deputy Speaker is only allowed to declare the results of the vote, not dismiss it before it happens.

By pushing the dismissal using Article 5, the Deputy Speaker and Imran Khan have disobeyed Article 6 of the Pakistan constitution which states:

Shame on Imran Khan for taking the law in his own hands

Shame on Deputy Speaker for helping Imran Khan taking law in his own hands

Shame on Imran Khan's supporters for being blind sheep and hypocrites

And who the hell are you. Where was your ilk when the horse trading was going on?

 

[JimmyGetsBuckets]

And who the hell are you. Where was your ilk when the horse trading was going on?

They only remember the parliament and constitution when it suits them. Where were these guys when nawaz sharif and zardari were doing worse things?

 

[FollowThru]

1. Under Article 58 of the Pakistan Constitution, the President of Pakistan is allowed to dissolve the National Assembly on the Prime Minister's advice.

HOWEVER

A Prime Minister against whom a vote of no confidence has NOT been voted on, the Prime Minister is not allowed to ask the President to dissolve the House

2. To get around this, the Deputy Speaker first dismissed the no confidence motion from the opposition parties, He did this on the basis of Article 5 which states the the opposition is not loyal to Pakistan thus indicating that only Imran Khan is loyal to constitution while every other member is not. (This is in fact not democracy)

So the argument is that the letter being used by Imran Khan which did not in fact prove Foreign interference in any legal or relative manner is being used to push a dictatorial push to deny the opposition right to move on with no confidence vote


One may not like the opposition and consider them corrupt but what Imran Khan and Deputy Speaker have done is no different than what Army has done for decades in Pakistan with martial law powers. If Imran Khan supporters accept this as an acceptable alternative they should accept that if Army intervenes and takes over, they will be hypocrites by calling the Army argument illegal.

Article 5 mentioned and screenshot above is about being loyal to the constitution , Imran Khan and Deputy Speaker have proven not loyal to the constitution by dismissing the opposition's constitutional right to no confidence vote.

The Deputy Speaker is only allowed to declare the results of the vote, not dismiss it before it happens.

By pushing the dismissal using Article 5, the Deputy Speaker and Imran Khan have disobeyed Article 6 of the Pakistan constitution which states:

Shame on Imran Khan for taking the law in his own hands

Shame on Deputy Speaker for helping Imran Khan taking law in his own hands

Shame on Imran Khan's supporters for being blind sheep and hypocrites

Looks like its a never ending loop.

The conspiracy letter was validated by NSC. Speaker/Deputy can always quote NSC.
PDM can always claim letter was fake.

Ultimately it will come down to the decision by people of Pakistan, the supreme power in a democracy. People will get 2-3 months to observe, analyse and decide what they want.

 

[IMMY69]

1. Under Article 58 of the Pakistan Constitution, the President of Pakistan is allowed to dissolve the National Assembly on the Prime Minister's advice.

HOWEVER

A Prime Minister against whom a vote of no confidence has NOT been voted on, the Prime Minister is not allowed to ask the President to dissolve the House

2. To get around this, the Deputy Speaker first dismissed the no confidence motion from the opposition parties, He did this on the basis of Article 5 which states the the opposition is not loyal to Pakistan thus indicating that only Imran Khan is loyal to constitution while every other member is not. (This is in fact not democracy)

So the argument is that the letter being used by Imran Khan which did not in fact prove Foreign interference in any legal or relative manner is being used to push a dictatorial push to deny the opposition right to move on with no confidence vote


One may not like the opposition and consider them corrupt but what Imran Khan and Deputy Speaker have done is no different than what Army has done for decades in Pakistan with martial law powers. If Imran Khan supporters accept this as an acceptable alternative they should accept that if Army intervenes and takes over, they will be hypocrites by calling the Army argument illegal.

Article 5 mentioned and screenshot above is about being loyal to the constitution , Imran Khan and Deputy Speaker have proven not loyal to the constitution by dismissing the opposition's constitutional right to no confidence vote.

The Deputy Speaker is only allowed to declare the results of the vote, not dismiss it before it happens.

By pushing the dismissal using Article 5, the Deputy Speaker and Imran Khan have disobeyed Article 6 of the Pakistan constitution which states:

Shame on Imran Khan for taking the law in his own hands

Shame on Deputy Speaker for helping Imran Khan taking law in his own hands

Shame on Imran Khan's supporters for being blind sheep and hypocrites

I always laugh at these type of posts because ultimately the post writer is going to look like a fool.

 

[Bewal Express]

[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION]

Is this true?

No Azhar Siddique said it isn't. He is a SC advocate. Why are these guys scared of an election. Surely they would want an election.

 

[Bewal Express]

[MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] a reminder, a deputy speaker does not have unlimited powers. Pti fans will harp about article 69, but they forget the reason why the judiciary exists.

Judiciary exist to interpret the laws and thats is what the CJP will do. If they deem the actions of deputy speak unconstitutional, pti fans will be crying about article 69 and than would be bashing judiciary...

Right now its foreign powers, 15 days later it would be evil judiciary

Why are the opposition scared of the elections. I have said and I repeat the Judiciary from top to bottom is corrupt. The Presidential reference was sent and they bottled it. PK needs cleansing of the mafia and their enablers.

 

[Stewie]

The opposition has no street power and after this coup attempt, no popularity either. They have egg on their faces. They wanted to come into power for year and a half to get all the cases against them dismissed. They knew they can’t win the election against PTI, plus they are all fighting each other as well.

This won’t end well for Noooras, jiyalas or mullas.

 

[Major]

1. Under Article 58 of the Pakistan Constitution, the President of Pakistan is allowed to dissolve the National Assembly on the Prime Minister's advice.

HOWEVER

A Prime Minister against whom a vote of no confidence has NOT been voted on, the Prime Minister is not allowed to ask the President to dissolve the House

2. To get around this, the Deputy Speaker first dismissed the no confidence motion from the opposition parties, He did this on the basis of Article 5 which states the the opposition is not loyal to Pakistan thus indicating that only Imran Khan is loyal to constitution while every other member is not. (This is in fact not democracy)

So the argument is that the letter being used by Imran Khan which did not in fact prove Foreign interference in any legal or relative manner is being used to push a dictatorial push to deny the opposition right to move on with no confidence vote


One may not like the opposition and consider them corrupt but what Imran Khan and Deputy Speaker have done is no different than what Army has done for decades in Pakistan with martial law powers. If Imran Khan supporters accept this as an acceptable alternative they should accept that if Army intervenes and takes over, they will be hypocrites by calling the Army argument illegal.

Article 5 mentioned and screenshot above is about being loyal to the constitution , Imran Khan and Deputy Speaker have proven not loyal to the constitution by dismissing the opposition's constitutional right to no confidence vote.

The Deputy Speaker is only allowed to declare the results of the vote, not dismiss it before it happens.

By pushing the dismissal using Article 5, the Deputy Speaker and Imran Khan have disobeyed Article 6 of the Pakistan constitution which states:

Shame on Imran Khan for taking the law in his own hands

Shame on Deputy Speaker for helping Imran Khan taking law in his own hands

Shame on Imran Khan's supporters for being blind sheep and hypocrites

Potw, appreciate your efforts and the understanding you wrote for all of us posters..

 

[JimmyGetsBuckets]

Why are the opposition scared of the elections. I have said and I repeat the Judiciary from top to bottom is corrupt. The Presidential reference was sent and they bottled it. PK needs cleansing of the mafia and their enablers.

How can Imran khan succeed if the whole system is corrupt. I’m really happy he is exposing these thugs but at the same time it seems pointless because it seems everyone is corrupt.

 

[Bewal Express]

How can Imran khan succeed if the whole system is corrupt. I’m really happy he is exposing these thugs but at the same time it seems pointless because it seems everyone is corrupt.

It's difficult but what's the alternative? Do we let these thugs rule over us like we are rubbish, are we destined for ghulami at the hands of these crooks. PK Zindabad, Kaptaan Zindabad

 

[JimmyGetsBuckets]

Potw, appreciate your efforts and the understanding you wrote for all of us posters..

I like to observe and don’t really interact here much but I noticed everytime someone asks you a valid question or fact checks you, you just pretend like it never happened.

 

[Bewal Express]

Potw, appreciate your efforts and the understanding you wrote for all of us posters..

Yes but where was you when AZ proudly brought votes.

 

[Bewal Express]

 

[Bewal Express]

I like to observe and don’t really interact here much but I noticed everytime someone asks you a valid question or fact checks you, you just pretend like it never happened.

Ask him if buying votes is OK? Then You see the badniyaati of the poster. The poor guy is having kittens. He looks more shocked than SS

 

[DRsohail]

[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] kesa Diya, Maza Aaya.

 

[JimmyGetsBuckets]

What’s likely gonna be the SC verdict here?

 

[DRsohail]

1. Under Article 58 of the Pakistan Constitution, the President of Pakistan is allowed to dissolve the National Assembly on the Prime Minister's advice.

HOWEVER

A Prime Minister against whom a vote of no confidence has NOT been voted on, the Prime Minister is not allowed to ask the President to dissolve the House

2. To get around this, the Deputy Speaker first dismissed the no confidence motion from the opposition parties, He did this on the basis of Article 5 which states the the opposition is not loyal to Pakistan thus indicating that only Imran Khan is loyal to constitution while every other member is not. (This is in fact not democracy)

So the argument is that the letter being used by Imran Khan which did not in fact prove Foreign interference in any legal or relative manner is being used to push a dictatorial push to deny the opposition right to move on with no confidence vote


One may not like the opposition and consider them corrupt but what Imran Khan and Deputy Speaker have done is no different than what Army has done for decades in Pakistan with martial law powers. If Imran Khan supporters accept this as an acceptable alternative they should accept that if Army intervenes and takes over, they will be hypocrites by calling the Army argument illegal.

Article 5 mentioned and screenshot above is about being loyal to the constitution , Imran Khan and Deputy Speaker have proven not loyal to the constitution by dismissing the opposition's constitutional right to no confidence vote.

The Deputy Speaker is only allowed to declare the results of the vote, not dismiss it before it happens.

By pushing the dismissal using Article 5, the Deputy Speaker and Imran Khan have disobeyed Article 6 of the Pakistan constitution which states:

Shame on Imran Khan for taking the law in his own hands

Shame on Deputy Speaker for helping Imran Khan taking law in his own hands

Shame on Imran Khan's supporters for being blind sheep and hypocrites

Who are you to say this? Where were you when horse trading was happening, you can cry now.Khan has done to them and punched them out at place which will hurt the most.I can not even sympathize with you.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Good point.
And what's the rule in India wrt horse trading and floor crossing?

If a member defies party whip to vote against the party, he can be disqualified from voting by the speaker, but the NCM vote still goes. But this goes only for a member of a particular party, coalition member of another party or another coalition party is free to change their side.

 

[Lonewarrior]

The thing is PM IK create the Constitutional crisis, he finds the loope hole within the Constitution and playing with it accordingly, SC will find it difficult to interperate and make no mistake, its a pandora box, which can dissolve the constitution if its not handle carefuly, and SC dont wana indulge in this kind of stuff at the moment, becoz it will create vacuum for the Third Party to interfere, so SC will most likely to choose the only option , IK left only one option for SC , the new elections ......

 

[Bewal Express]

The thing is PM IK create the Constitutional crisis, he finds the loope hole within the Constitution and playing with it accordingly, SC will find it difficult to interperate and make no mistake, its a pandora box, which can dissolve the constitution if its not handle carefuly, and SC dont wana indulge in this kind of stuff at the moment, becoz it will create vacuum for the Third Party to interfere, so SC will most likely to choose the only option , IK left only one option for SC , the new elections ......

The crooks wanted new elections and are now running. Uturn thugs

 

[realitygaf]

I am only pointing out from an outside observer who doesn’t support any party that Imran khan and his Ilk are also corrupt and they will and have taken law in their own hands to do their politics, that no politician or party cares about minorities or true freedom
And that they all think rules don’t apply to them

You can put lipstick on a pig , it’s still a pig

I am only getting pushback here as most here think he is some political messiah, he is not. That much he has shown

 

[Bewal Express]

[MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] kesa Diya, Maza Aaya.

I was so depressed that I woke up late morning after sehri earlier. Today I have a spring in my step after seeing these thugs crying. But I don't trust the SC, they cowardly avoided the Presidential ref verdict so I don't know where this is going. But I am enjoying it today

 

[Bewal Express]

I am only pointing out from an outside observer who doesn’t support any party that Imran khan and his Ilk are also corrupt and they will and have taken law in their own hands to do their politics, that no politician or party cares about minorities or true freedom
And that they all think rules don’t apply to them

You can put lipstick on a pig , it’s still a pig

I am only getting pushback here as most here think he is some political messiah, he is not. That much he has shown

Where was you when horse trading was going on. So go away with your Rona dona. We hear enough of that rubbish with idiotic Nooras, I hope you ain't some guy using a multi.

 

[Major]

I like to observe and don’t really interact here much but I noticed everytime someone asks you a valid question or fact checks you, you just pretend like it never happened.

Because its a waste of time going back and fourth on the same stuff.

Many of the things asked are not related with the thread discussion or even the context of it.

For example [MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] bhai likes to post whataboutism all the time, even if you discuss anything.

As for fact checks, its always someone googling out an article and sharing it and trying to defend that.

Benazir was never found corrupt yet you will find posters who will google out an article and try to fight on it, but those posters like [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] would have little knowledge or context to how those cases made were politically motivated by mawaz and co.

Also if someone proves something wrong, i am happy to accept and move on...

 

[Major]

I am only pointing out from an outside observer who doesn’t support any party that Imran khan and his Ilk are also corrupt and they will and have taken law in their own hands to do their politics, that no politician or party cares about minorities or true freedom
And that they all think rules don’t apply to them

You can put lipstick on a pig , it’s still a pig

I am only getting pushback here as most here think he is some political messiah, he is not. That much he has shown

Respect your views.

This is the problem with ik fans, they have turned him into some kind of messiah that saying anything against his party is wrong....

The guy to save his own selfish butt has got the deputy speaker to take this action which will cause dollar rise and more inflation

 

[Itachi]

Who made you an expert in Pakistan SC and Constitution when you have no idea of what Secularism means in the Indian constitution?

At thread - what a move by IK! 3 wickets in one reverse swing yorker! Wickets uprooted!

What India has got to do with this thread lol....

You are ignored by various posters for a reason.

 

[Lonewarrior]

The crooks wanted new elections and are now running. Uturn thugs

those who are saying the SC will turnover the ruling, can tell us, what will they do after that ? i mean, how much time it will take to undo all of things, the vote date has expired, the President dissolve the assembly on the instruction of PM, The IK is no longer an active PM, the President invoke sec 94, etc etc

 

[Bewal Express]

Because its a waste of time going back and fourth on the same stuff.

Many of the things asked are not related with the thread discussion or even the context of it.

For example [MENTION=1269]Bewal Express[/MENTION] bhai likes to post whataboutism all the time, even if you discuss anything.

As for fact checks, its always someone googling out an article and sharing it and trying to defend that.

Benazir was never found corrupt yet you will find posters who will google out an article and try to fight on it, but those posters like [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] would have little knowledge or context to how those cases made were politically motivated by mawaz and co.

Also if someone proves something wrong, i am happy to accept and move on...

I asked you a simple question, why do you go on about the constitution when the mafia clearly did things that were unconstitutional. Was horse trading constitutional? And where was your condemnation. Kashif Abbasi( not known to be a PTI sympathiser) took your hypocrisy apart. And why are you scared of an election.

 

[Technics 1210]

What India has got to do with this thread lol....

You are ignored by various posters for a reason.

So you're not an expert on Pakistan SC/constitution. Thanks for confirming and I couldn't care less if I am ignored, but atleast you're paying attention to my posts.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

By pushing the dismissal using Article 5, the Deputy Speaker and Imran Khan have disobeyed Article 6 of the Pakistan constitution which states:

Shame on Imran Khan for taking the law in his own hands

Shame on Deputy Speaker for helping Imran Khan taking law in his own hands

Shame on Imran Khan's supporters for being blind sheep and hypocrites

How has Article 6 been violated? IK has not abrogated or subverted or suspended or held the constitution in abeyance. Once the no confidence motion was rejected IK had the right to dissolve the assembly.

If the opposition is willing, their can be a caretaker govt installed in a few days and then Pakistan will go to elections. This is what the opposition said they wanted all along, new elections. They can have it now if they want.

The thing debatable is whether Article 5 was valid or not. In the speaker's opinion it was, and now the SC will decide whether they agree or not. And whether per Article 69 the SC has a right to interfere in parliamentary matters. Just a couple of days ago they said they did not in another case.

 

[PetroDollars]

As far as im aware, if NCM went ahead, opp would have pulled in elections anyway, its what everyone wants, the game now is about who is going to select the interim setup.

 

[Stewie]

As far as im aware, if NCM went ahead, opp would have pulled in elections anyway, its what everyone wants, the game now is about who is going to select the interim setup.

No you don’t understand what was really going on. All these opposition parties who are United as PDM, are sworn enemies of each other and are the biggest culprits. They have all tons of corruptions cases against them. They will never have stayed United for a general election. Their purpose was to get interim government for year and a half so they can all issues general pardon to each other for all the NAB cases against them. They know for a fact they have no hope in a proper election. Which is why there was such significant effort out in right now to get some power or if IK had completed full five years tenure, they will be dust.

See that’s the key advantage IK has and he wants them to contest the elections right now because this has only helped increased his popularity. NS was hoping he could be pardoned so he can come back. He is outliving his usefulness for the UK govt. he knows he won’t be welcome there anymore unless he starts paying taxes for all the money they know he has illegally accumulated.

IK has spent a lot of time exposing all these crooks and their popularity is on the vane. They all know it. If PTI has a few more terms, all these problems will sort them out.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

How has Article 6 been violated? IK has not abrogated or subverted or suspended or held the constitution in abeyance. Once the no confidence motion was rejected IK had the right to dissolve the assembly.

If the opposition is willing, their can be a caretaker govt installed in a few days and then Pakistan will go to elections. This is what the opposition said they wanted all along, new elections. They can have it now if they want.

The thing debatable is whether Article 5 was valid or not. In the speaker's opinion it was, and now the SC will decide whether they agree or not. And whether per Article 69 the SC has a right to interfere in parliamentary matters. Just a couple of days ago they said they did not in another case.

The problem is, some elements in the SC are also a sell out prostitute.

I hope PTI sweeps the next election and IK enforces presidential rule - screw it all!

 

[moghul]

The problem is, some elements in the SC are also a sell out prostitute.

I hope PTI sweeps the next election and IK enforces presidential rule - screw it all!

Looks like a dream but------------who knows, never say never.

 

[JimmyGetsBuckets]

The problem is, some elements in the SC are also a sell out prostitute.

I hope PTI sweeps the next election and IK enforces presidential rule - screw it all!

Can he do that if he gets majority next time around?

 

[moghul]

I asked you a simple question, why do you go on about the constitution when the mafia clearly did things that were unconstitutional. Was horse trading constitutional? And where was your condemnation. Kashif Abbasi( not known to be a PTI sympathiser) took your hypocrisy apart. And why are you scared of an election.

Thanks to the 35 years of corruption ladened government of PPP and PML in Pakistan , corruption has become a norm for may people, especially for their supporters and they don't consider anything wrong when lotas are on sale, although on higher prices this time , but constitution does not allow horse trading and its a major violation and deserve a life time disqualification .

How is it OK , if I voted a person for MNA/MPA to support Imran Khan and he/she turned against IK, after taking Rs 16 crores from the opposition to take down IK.

 

[Itachi]

How has Article 6 been violated? IK has not abrogated or subverted or suspended or held the constitution in abeyance. Once the no confidence motion was rejected IK had the right to dissolve the assembly.

If the opposition is willing, their can be a caretaker govt installed in a few days and then Pakistan will go to elections. This is what the opposition said they wanted all along, new elections. They can have it now if they want.

The thing debatable is whether Article 5 was valid or not. In the speaker's opinion it was, and now the SC will decide whether they agree or not. And whether per Article 69 the SC has a right to interfere in parliamentary matters. Just a couple of days ago they said they did not in another case.

if SC decides that article 5 was not forceable by the speaker, then opposition might appeal under article 6 for treason.

But let's face it, that will be a very weak ground and i don't think any court will entertain it.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

:: snip :::


Shame on Imran Khan for taking the law in his own hands

Shame on Deputy Speaker for helping Imran Khan taking law in his own hands

Shame on Imran Khan's supporters for being blind sheep and hypocrites

Yeah,,,

Every other Tom Dick and Harry is acting like some graduate of Harvard Law School.

I say, shame on those who send shame on IK

 

[Itachi]

Yeah,,,

Every other Tom Dick and Harry is acting like some graduate of Harvard Law School.

I say, shame on those who send shame on IK

In my opinion, PMO has disrespected the constitution by abusing the power that was given to him.

I understand in politics, dirty tricks like this does happen but having preached so much about morality, it is unfortunate to see IK going same route as other politicians which PTI fans criticise.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

In my opinion, PMO has disrespected the constitution by abusing the power that was given to him.

I understand in politics, dirty tricks like this does happen but having preached so much about morality, it is unfortunate to see IK going same route as other politicians which PTI fans criticise.

Absolutely!!
These people deserved EXACTLY this kind of slap in their faces.

If PPP and PML can return even 50% of the international loans they took during their tenures - I would be more than happy to jump on the bandwagon and blame IK as much as you want.

Fact of the matter is, IK has been way, way WAYYY too nice with them

If I was in power, I would’ve assigned secret service to put them imbeciles in jail for life in fake cases, with no access to any attorney or friends n family or anyone else.

 

[the Great Khan]

Wah..everyone is an expert in constitutional law suddenly. Subhanallah.

The SC has clearly said they cannot interfere in the proceedings of Parliament. Even if they declare what IK has done as illegal they will have to go for early elections. It has happened before in 1988.

Also a new NCM will have to be brought but the assemblies stand dissolved thusbyou would need new elections first. Also the NCM has to have valid reasons. Simply putting " we don't like Khan cos of mehngaiy" is not good enough.

Finally please stop calling it a damned letter. We are not living in the 18th century where they viceroy wouldnsend a hand written letter with the seal of the Queen on it. These were recorded minuted of an official meeting. If any of you bachay loag have sat in official meetings that are minuted you known what I'm talking about. These will be out to the SC who will have to see them now and they will conclude the same as the speaker. One final point the Americans have not denied this. Hindustan times interviewed the under secretary mentioned by Imran, Donald Lu and he accepted that this meeting didntake place. Just look it up.

In conclusion either way we have early elections and its IK vs everyone else. All the muk mukka has come down to this moment. Choars vs IK. That is the choice for the country. And he has his narrative. What do they have? Wait for the sedition cases. Also alot of talk about section 6. This does not apply in this case. At worst the SC will say " look we think you misinterpreted this but just hold elections as we can't interfere in parliamentary actions"..either way you guys clutching at biloos trousers need to find something else. Inevitability is coming for you Inshallah.

 

[cric_man]

In my opinion, PMO has disrespected the constitution by abusing the power that was given to him.

I understand in politics, dirty tricks like this does happen but having preached so much about morality, it is unfortunate to see IK going same route as other politicians which PTI fans criticise.

Are you a Pakistani constitutional scholar?
If so, please tell us explicitly where the constitution has been violated?

 

[Shariq7]

if SC decides that article 5 was not forceable by the speaker, then opposition might appeal under article 6 for treason.

But let's face it, that will be a very weak ground and i don't think any court will entertain it.

69 Courts not to inquire into proceedings of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament).

This language is as black and white as it gets. Parliamentary proceedings are not within the jurisdiction of the Court. The Court will have to go against the constitution to even review the proceedings, let alone overturn it.

 

[Itachi]

Are you a Pakistani constitutional scholar?
If so, please tell us explicitly where the constitution has been violated?

I didn't say it was violated. I said it was abused.

Those two are very different aspects.

Some thing can be both legal and abused at the same time.

 

[Itachi]

69 Courts not to inquire into proceedings of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament).

This language is as black and white as it gets. Parliamentary proceedings are not within the jurisdiction of the Court. The Court will have to go against the constitution to even review the proceedings, let alone overturn it.

Does the action of speaker translates to actions of parliament or not?

Is the judgement of speaker is same as judgement of the house?

Since there are more votes (in surface) for the motion, so who decides the actions of parliament?

The speaker or majority of the house?

This is one aspect which SC needs to decide.

People here are parroting about 69 without even considering what is proceedings of a house actually implies.

 

[daytrader]

Absolutely!!
These people deserved EXACTLY this kind of slap in their faces.

If PPP and PML can return even 50% of the international loans they took during their tenures - I would be more than happy to jump on the bandwagon and blame IK as much as you want.

Fact of the matter is, IK has been way, way WAYYY too nice with them .

If I was in power, I would’ve assigned secret service to put them imbeciles in jail for life in fake cases, with no access to any attorney or friends n family or anyone else.

No mercy for them this time around. Khan is fighting fire with fire

 

[wasim-fan]

Does the action of speaker translates to actions of parliament or not?

Is the judgement of speaker is same as judgement of the house?

Since there are more votes (in surface) for the motion, so who decides the actions of parliament?

The speaker or majority of the house?

This is one aspect which SC needs to decide.

People here are parroting about 69 without even considering what is proceedings of a house actually implies.

Exactly. Article 69 cannot be looked in isolation. It looks like clear violation of Article 6. The role of speaker is also questionable if he has exceeded his authority. Overall, a horrible day for aspiring democracy.

 

[Itachi]

Exactly. Article 69 cannot be looked in isolation. It looks like clear violation of Article 6. The role of speaker is also questionable if he has exceeded his authority. Overall, a horrible day for aspiring democracy.

If actions of a speaker of the parliament can not be questioned even by chief justice of supreme court.... That's a dangerous trend.

In my opinion, even actions of the house should be able to question by SC since it keeps a check.

 

[Shariq7]

Does the action of speaker translates to actions of parliament or not?

Is the judgement of speaker is same as judgement of the house?

Since there are more votes (in surface) for the motion, so who decides the actions of parliament?

The speaker or majority of the house?

This is one aspect which SC needs to decide.

People here are parroting about 69 without even considering what is proceedings of a house actually implies.

1. Check out Article 69 section 2.

No officer or member of 169[Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament)] 169 in whom powers are vested by or under the Constitution for regulating procedure or the conduct of business, or for maintaining order in 170[Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament)] 170, shall be subject to the jurisdiction of any court in respect of the exercise by him of those powers. No officer or member of 169[Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament)] 169 in whom powers are vested by or under the Constitution for regulating procedure or the conduct of business, or for maintaining order in 170[Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament)] 170, shall be subject to the jurisdiction of any court in respect of the exercise by him of those powers.

You can safely say that the speaker of the house (in this case, the deputy speaker) is someone in whom the powers are vested for regulating procedures or conducting business.

2. No motion other than dismissal took place. The motion you may be referring to occurred after the speaker terminated the session (Justly or unjustly, you can question his motives but not his action).

3. The court cannot decide anything because it does not have jurisdiction over the proceeding. However, it can decide if the earlier actions of the opposition (allegedly paying off PTI members, being in cahoots with the U.S etc.) fall under Article 5 because these actions do not fall under parliamentary proceedings.

 

[Itachi]

1. Check out Article 69 section 2.

No officer or member of 169[Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament)] 169 in whom powers are vested by or under the Constitution for regulating procedure or the conduct of business, or for maintaining order in 170[Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament)] 170, shall be subject to the jurisdiction of any court in respect of the exercise by him of those powers. No officer or member of 169[Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament)] 169 in whom powers are vested by or under the Constitution for regulating procedure or the conduct of business, or for maintaining order in 170[Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament)] 170, shall be subject to the jurisdiction of any court in respect of the exercise by him of those powers.

You can safely say that the speaker of the house (in this case, the deputy speaker) is someone in whom the powers are vested for regulating procedures or conducting business.

2. No motion other than dismissal took place. The motion you may be referring to occurred after the speaker terminated the session (Justly or unjustly, you can question his motives but not his action).

3. The court cannot decide anything because it does not have jurisdiction over the proceeding. However, it can decide if the earlier actions of the opposition (allegedly paying off PTI members, being in cahoots with the U.S etc.) fall under Article 5 because these actions do not fall under parliamentary proceedings.

Above article is subjected to article 5 interpretation (in yesterdays context) which itself asks for motives since there is conflict of interest when NSC is involved where PM himself is the chairman.

Above could have been ruled out had an independent committee was formed since it was PM who was appealing (for lack of words) and PMO may guide the NSC in their proceedings by superseeding them. There is a clear case of conflict of interest whether it actually has occurred or not regardless.

In this context, article 69 and article 5 alone can not be enough to give a justified verdict since everything is occurring in a chain.

 

[Shariq7]

Above article is subjected to article 5 interpretation (in yesterdays context) which itself asks for motives since there is conflict of interest when NSC is involved where PM himself is the chairman.

Above could have been ruled out had an independent committee was formed since it was PM who was appealing (for lack of words) and PMO may guide the NSC in their proceedings by superseeding them. There is a clear case of conflict of interest whether it actually has occurred or not regardless.

In this context, article 69 and article 5 alone can not be enough to give a justified verdict since everything is occurring in a chain.

Hmm, I agree. If the Court wanted to overturn the motion, this is the argument it would make. However, it would still be unconstitutional because the speaker's reasons do not matter. Therefore, even if the speaker had no reason to terminate the motion, it would still be unconstitutional to review it under the black and white language of Article 69. But I take your point.

 

[cricketjoshila]

69 Courts not to inquire into proceedings of Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament).

This language is as black and white as it gets. Parliamentary proceedings are not within the jurisdiction of the Court. The Court will have to go against the constitution to even review the proceedings, let alone overturn it.

Are the actions of the speaker, the same as the action of the house?

Lets forget for a moment that Imran is the PM.

If any PM and his party is able to dismiss the NCM via the speaker (who invariably is from the ruling party) and it cannot be judicially reviewed then it gives rise to a constitutional dictatorship, because then no government can be dismissed even if they lose majority.

 

[Itachi]

Hmm, I agree. If the Court wanted to overturn the motion, this is the argument it would make. However, it would still be unconstitutional because the speaker's reasons do not matter. Therefore, even if the speaker had no reason to terminate the motion, it would still be unconstitutional to review it under the black and white language of Article 69. But I take your point.

Yes. Under article 69, it may seem unconstitutional (SC intervention).

This is rather a messy situation. SC should have some authority (atleast in intervening when such crisis arise) but as of now, I haven't seen any clause which does allow SC to it.

Since new elections will be held anyway so I too do not believe SC will make any changes.

The only ground that could be seen by troublesome by SC is, what if the speaker takes an action which is against public interest (it can happen, you never know) in future. Should SC be silent or it may issue subpoena to the speaker?

 

[Itachi]

Are the actions of the speaker, the same as the action of the house?

Lets forget for a moment that Imran is the PM.

If any PM and his party is able to dismiss the NCM via the speaker (who invariably is from the ruling party) and it cannot be judicially reviewed then it gives rise to a constitutional dictatorship, because then no government can be dismissed even if they lose majority.

Yup no confidence motion seems meaningless if such is valid.