Not getting selected for a job

[Babeikh]

More smilies, but no response to why UK policing and counselling jobs are offered to the right skill rather than colour.

They are offered to the right skill but I believe did address that point. Perhaps comprehension is a challenge for you (it would explain a lot!). Re-read my post:

1. To build community trust
2. To mitigate against institutional racism

It is not ideal but sometimes it is necessary, as in the police in particular which was found to be institutionally racist 20 years ago. Have things really changed since then? Possibly a little, but significantly so? There is no evidence it has- that's why we need these things.

No response to why desis are caught lying on their CVs than others.

I am not sure if that is true. I mean, let's assume it is based on the 3 CVs you saw and the 2 job interviews you did - I would say it is probably likely to be linked with them needing to do so in order in order to be given a hearing. Maybe because people like you throw their CVs away without giving them a chance they feel like they have to blemish their experience?

When you have to send 75% more applications than a white person with the equivalent experience and qualifications - that is institutional racism - to lie on your CV may be their only option. Not an excuse, an explanation.

Still more LOLs from someone who pulled a report from Google unable to explain why Asian airlines hire more staff from Asians in UK than whites. Why no cry of racism, from desi racists now?

Oh you're still doing this Air India thing LOL

Come back when you live in the West.

I'm actually feeling a bit guilty. I mean, you clearly aren't the sharpest tool in the box. Did you go to a state school or a private school?

 

[Technics 1210]

Rest of you - in the UK you’re are not obliged to reveal your sex, age, nationality on your CV - by law!

You are hired based on your skill set, experience, and intelligence! If you get caught lying on your CV - don’t blame it on racism, the blame lies on you.

If you want a job living in a pro dominant white country, then make sure your CV is 100% factual. No need lie and then blame racism if caught.

The UK has the most stringent employment law in all the globe, it’s precisely why people of colour play the system - and get rich trying.

 

[Babeikh]

Rest of you - in the UK you’re are not obliged to reveal your sex, age, nationality on your CV - by law!

You are hired based on your skill set, experience, and intelligence! If you get caught lying on your CV - don’t blame it on racism, the blame lies on you.

If you want a job living in a pro dominant white country, then make sure your CV is 100% factual. No need lie and then blame racism if caught.

The UK has the most stringent employment law in all the globe, it’s precisely why people of colour play the system - and get rich trying.

So what? The CV still has your name. Doesn't take a genius to work out your ethnicity by seeing your name in most cases. That's why rigorous studies have repeatedly found there is discrimination against ethnic minorities in employment. You won't bother reading as you're clearly stuck in your ways but NatCen Social Research and Nuffield Foundation - two very well respected organisations - found essentially the same thing....

Non white names had to send 70% plus more applications than white people with the same experience and qualifications. These are what factual studies have found based on rigorous scientific research across thousands of jobs - not some random middle aged sitting on his computer after seeing a couple of desis lie on their CV.

Also, far far far bigger issue is the level of tax avoidance by mostly white people - millionaires and billionaires. Costs the system far more than a handful of people who put in fake benefit claims. Immigrants still make a net contribution to the UK economy - the pay more in than they take out. Fact.

Still laughing at the Air India example

 

[Napa]

Yes that was an exaggeration. I apologise.

'A significant contribution to America's infrastructure and economic development was made by slaves'.

Thank you. The US is the leading economic power of the world because it has given its citizens the freedom to create value, while also minimizing support for those who do not work. That accountability also existed for Whites, which meant that they also had to work hard to get a good life.

Blacks during slavery were no doubt badly exploited, and given less than what they would have received in a free market for their labor.

 

[Babeikh]

Thank you. The US is the leading economic power of the world because it has given its citizens the freedom to create value, while also minimizing support for those who do not work. That accountability also existed for Whites, which meant that they also had to work hard to get a good life.

Blacks during slavery were no doubt badly exploited, and given less than what they would have received in a free market for their labor.

Don't agree with that - but another topic altogether !

 

[Technics 1210]

Indian fraudster gets caught lip-syncing in Skype interview

https://dunyanews.tv/en/WeirdNews/513378-Indian-fraudster-caught-lip-syncing-Skype-interview-

Yup folks, blame racism.

 

[drubwrubnat]

This is a very complex subject, and I thought writing down views instead of rebuttals / settling scores will be better.

One thing that is easily lost on minorities is
Almost all of them can pack their bags & go back to desiland, if they choose to do so. This incentivises them to not keep a 100% clean sheet, unlike the white people, who have primarily only one home. Deep down, you also know this is true.

Suppose the council has a choice for providing housing among a native & non native homeless person.
The native naturally has more right to claim the housing since their grandparents paid taxes, and died on the native soil. Unlike the other.
But if such a law were to be formally announced, then would be a brigade of activism.
Native land, is something of a core human value, not related to racism, in fact, even two animals will mark their territory. You have to cut them some slack for this.

Also, there is equality of opportunity & equality of outcome - you cant mix up this important distinction when you argue a case for institutional racism. System is not fair - ok fine, but some portion of the blame lies with the accuser also, no ?

Has anyone wondered how hurt & helpless white people feel when the system they cherish is everyday run down by a large group of people claiming everything is unfair ? White privilege - this word just writes off all the good that the person has strived for, in their entire life.

Again, this is a very complex issue, and when people engage in selection bias or not looking at the macro picture - there will be always blinded ( me included ).

Overdoing these racism things will lead to / already leading to , such a divide in society, and is directly responsible for ALTright sentiments.
What do you think will happen, if you tell a white supremacist, to hire non whites. Obviously he will do the opposite. This is a thought clash - cant get inside someones mind by force.

Yes, the young minority kids are being negatively affected by stereotypes, and i support funding awareness in that direction. Provided they should not be given any preferential treatment. Children have done no wrong, and can be wholeheartedly sponsored by the state.

All other funding ideas, are not fair to native taxpayers, and should be raised privately. Im sure everyone knows what was the outcome of the Race report 2020 ( thats another debate ), but will not you acknowledge that the spirit of conducting such a report itself was a step in the right direction.

 

[Babeikh]

This is a very complex subject, and I thought writing down views instead of rebuttals / settling scores will be better.

One thing that is easily lost on minorities is
Almost all of them can pack their bags & go back to desiland, if they choose to do so. This incentivises them to not keep a 100% clean sheet, unlike the white people, who have primarily only one home. Deep down, you also know this is true.

Suppose the council has a choice for providing housing among a native & non native homeless person.
The native naturally has more right to claim the housing since their grandparents paid taxes, and died on the native soil. Unlike the other.
But if such a law were to be formally announced, then would be a brigade of activism.
Native land, is something of a core human value, not related to racism, in fact, even two animals will mark their territory. You have to cut them some slack for this.

Also, there is equality of opportunity & equality of outcome - you cant mix up this important distinction when you argue a case for institutional racism. System is not fair - ok fine, but some portion of the blame lies with the accuser also, no ?

Has anyone wondered how hurt & helpless white people feel when the system they cherish is everyday run down by a large group of people claiming everything is unfair ? White privilege - this word just writes off all the good that the person has strived for, in their entire life.

Again, this is a very complex issue, and when people engage in selection bias or not looking at the macro picture - there will be always blinded ( me included ).

Overdoing these racism things will lead to / already leading to , such a divide in society, and is directly responsible for ALTright sentiments.
What do you think will happen, if you tell a white supremacist, to hire non whites. Obviously he will do the opposite. This is a thought clash - cant get inside someones mind by force.

Yes, the young minority kids are being negatively affected by stereotypes, and i support funding awareness in that direction. Provided they should not be given any preferential treatment. Children have done no wrong, and can be wholeheartedly sponsored by the state.

All other funding ideas, are not fair to native taxpayers, and should be raised privately. Im sure everyone knows what was the outcome of the Race report 2020 ( thats another debate ), but will not you acknowledge that the spirit of conducting such a report itself was a step in the right direction.

Good post drubwrubnat and we are much more in 'agree to disagree' territory now than we were before

I will respond later or tomorrow !

 

[Babeikh]

This is a very complex subject, and I thought writing down views instead of rebuttals / settling scores will be better.

Fair enough - this isn't a rebuttal or settling of any score. But I though it important to respond to your points as we were in a discussion earlier.

One thing that is easily lost on minorities is
Almost all of them can pack their bags & go back to desiland, if they choose to do so. This incentivises them to not keep a 100% clean sheet, unlike the white people, who have primarily only one home. Deep down, you also know this is true.

I'm afraid I don't agree. This may have been the case in the 1950s or 1960s or even at a push the 1970s, Now, however, that is not the case. For many migrant communities, we are into now the 3rd generation so not only they were born in the UK but their parents were too - and it was their grandparents who migrated. These communities don't have a second home to go back to. This is as much their home as it is anyone else - they were born here, went to school here, work here (quite often in service jobs, NHS etc), pay taxes here. It's not as simple as just packing their bags and heading back to Jhelum or Trinidad.

Plus this is another area where white people DO have such a huge advantage. They can go and easily retire in Thailand in their beach villa in Phuket or in Menorca or Sardinia or the UAE - and they'll be greeted with open arms.

Suppose the council has a choice for providing housing among a native & non native homeless person.
The native naturally has more right to claim the housing since their grandparents paid taxes, and died on the native soil. Unlike the other.
But if such a law were to be formally announced, then would be a brigade of activism.
Native land, is something of a core human value, not related to racism, in fact, even two animals will mark their territory. You have to cut them some slack for this.

By definition a native is someone who was born in a particular country. The systemic and institutional issues that exist do not only affect those who have moved here but they also affect those who are born here- indeed those whose parents were born here too. What you are really saying is 'white people' - not native. So a white person - because their grand parents were white - has more of a right to claim housing. That is simply ludicrous. So many millions and millions of black and Asian people from all of Britain's colonies died for Britain in WW1 and WW2 - there is no moral superiority for having a grandparent or great grand parent born here that this gives you more of a right to anything.

Plus I don't recall Britain asking anyone's permission when they turned up at the shores to colonise half the world. They just did it!

Also, there is equality of opportunity & equality of outcome - you cant mix up this important distinction when you argue a case for institutional racism. System is not fair - ok fine, but some portion of the blame lies with the accuser also, no ?

Both - there is inequality of opportunity and even when the opportunity is given - inequality of outcome. This is all borne out in the data.

Yes, I am sure there are individual cases where people have screwed up, and have to take the blame. In a world of nearly 8 billion people, in a country such as UK with 65 odd million people - of course there are exceptions. But the prevailing experience, that can be shown by the data and innumerable studies, is the structural disadvantage faced by some people and not others, based on their ethnicity.

Has anyone wondered how hurt & helpless white people feel when the system they cherish is everyday run down by a large group of people claiming everything is unfair ? White privilege - this word just writes off all the good that the person has strived for, in their entire life.

Unfortunately facts don't care about feelings. Everyone, not just white people, need to understand this. Nobody has written off any good that any person has strived for. But the fact is that being white is a privilege and means you don't suffer many things that people who are not white do suffer. If that fact hurts your feelings then you need to get with the programme.

I know living here in the UK - I am privileged. I could be living in a fascist country like Saudi Arabia or under a brutal vicious occupation like the Palestinian people have to. That is a privilege and not being in that situation means I don't suffer from many of the things people in those countries suffer from. I accept that and understand it. It doesn't hurt my feelings and if it did, that would be tough luck for me.

Again, this is a very complex issue, and when people engage in selection bias or not looking at the macro picture - there will be always blinded ( me included ).

Overdoing these racism things will lead to / already leading to , such a divide in society, and is directly responsible for ALTright sentiments.

I agree about the divide in society - the culture wars etc. That is totally happening. I don't agree it is happening because people are raising issues of injustice. I think there is a lot else at play here and media in particular has a huge role to play in it. Some of the headlines they write on a daily basis, the way they frame every news item to suit certain needs, push certain buttons etc. The kind of rubbish the Daily Mail and The Sun write on a daily basis. I think they have a far bigger responsibility in this than activists standing up for justice and against injustice.

What do you think will happen, if you tell a white supremacist, to hire non whites. Obviously he will do the opposite. This is a thought clash - cant get inside someones mind by force.

White supremacists wouldn't be hiring non whites, whether you tell them to or not.

Yes, the young minority kids are being negatively affected by stereotypes, and i support funding awareness in that direction. Provided they should not be given any preferential treatment. Children have done no wrong, and can be wholeheartedly sponsored by the state.

Some people need more than others - that is not preferential treatment. Rather it is equity.

All other funding ideas, are not fair to native taxpayers, and should be raised privately.

Everyone benefits from greater community cohesion- not just black people or Asians. Sometimes we need to tip the balance a little in order to balance. It's unfortunate that centuries of racism have resulted in this but it has to be fixed because it cannot go on like this.

Im sure everyone knows what was the outcome of the Race report 2020 ( thats another debate ), but will not you acknowledge that the spirit of conducting such a report itself was a step in the right direction.

That report commissioned by the Boris Johnson (who is a known racist himself) government had one purpose only - white wash. It was not a step in any direction, it was quite blatant trolling and the reaction to it from the communities affected said it all.

I have to say - though I still disagree with you entirely - this post of yours was more in the 'valid view' area compared to earlier when you said 'there is no institutional racism'. Therefore I am now willing to agree to disagree and end the conversation from my end - you can have the last word if you wish.

 

[drubwrubnat]

Good luck !

 

[Technics 1210]

Boris is a racist? These lefty liberals need to do their homework.

Rishi Sunak and Priti Patel (both asains) hold 2 of the most powerful positions in UK government - Chancellor of the Exchequer and Home Secretary respectively
- appointed by the PM.

But no Boris is a racist.

 

[Babeikh]

Yeah also he travelled on Air India once so he can't be racist ) ) )

 

[Napa]

A significant contribution to America's infrastructure and economic development was made by slaves'.

I came across the following and remembered this thread. Other than those born into wealth, everyone had to work hard in the US. For those who were not slaves, the difference between the US and most of the world was that the US offered the most opportunity for advancement through hard work. Something that remains true till this day.

The Canal Dug By Irishmen

The Delaware and Raritan Canal, often referred to as "The Big Ditch" was constructed between the years 1831 - 1834 at a cost of almost $3,000,000 and the lives of many Irish immigrant laborers. The hand-dug D & R Canal was 66 miles long. The canal originally had 14 locks to raise and lower boat traffic.

There was a great shortage of laborers in America during the early 1800's. Contractors went to Ireland and brought thousands of Irishmen to America to work. The pay of $1.00 per day for canal workers was a large sum of money for men who had nothing in their own homeland. Although a number of canal workers were recruited locally, the vast majority were Irishmen brought from New York City by canal contractors. Some of these Irish emigrants were able to pay their own passage to America. However, the vast majority of them were unable to come up with the $12 steerage fee and the $15 provisions allowance. Instead, they chose to bind themselves for a period of work time, often times six months, to compensate the contractor for their passage/provisions advance.

During the three years needed to complete the canal, almost three thousand Irishmen worked on the various stages of the canal, cutting through the forests and farmlands of Central New Jersey. Most of the work was done by the brawn of the Irish unskilled laborers by hand with shovels, pick axes, and wheelbarrows. Their pay was $1.00 per day for working from sunrise to sunset, six days a week. The stronger men, who were able to remove tree stumps received an additional 25 cents for each stump. The more skilled Irish, the carpenters and stonemasons, built the locks, lockhouses, bridges and aqueducts and other buildings needed for canal operation. They earned more money than the unskilled laborer.

Working conditions were appalling with men living in crowded tents, no sanitation, no medical facilities, poor food and long hours. Most of the men wore rags tied around their feet while working in the canal pit. In 1832-33 Asiatic cholera sickened and killed hundreds of the Irish laborers. Many of them were buried in the fields where they died. Graves of unknown Irishmen are located at Bulls Island, Ten Mile Run, the Griggstown Cemetery and along the canal banks. No one can say for sure just how many Irish laborers died building this canal.

Those who survived the building of the Delaware & Raritan Canal moved across the country working on other canals and railroad construction. The Irish were greatly involved in our nation's first great transportation systems.

https://historicalmarkerproject.com/markers/HMOPB_the-canal-dug-by-irishmen_Princeton-NJ.html

 

[Robert]

Boris is a racist? These lefty liberals need to do their homework.

Rishi Sunak and Priti Patel (both asains) hold 2 of the most powerful positions in UK government - Chancellor of the Exchequer and Home Secretary respectively
- appointed by the PM.

But no Boris is a racist.

He is happy to use racist language to win support from racist voters though (picanninies, letterboxes). This enables racists by setting the example that it is ok.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Some genuinley top class posts on this thread from [MENTION=154417]Babeikh[/MENTION].

I must admit I have found the concept of institutional racism to be exaggerated in the UK...but maybe this was because my parents drummed into me from an early age that I should want to work twice as hard as a white person to make up that gap, and that it was natural for people of our backgrounds to have to do so.

I have read through some excellent posts that have at the very least let me pause and see the perspective and opinion of others who do feel it is a significant issue.