Not guilty. The Israeli captain who emptied his rifle into a Palestinian schoolgirl

[KingKhanWC]

An Israeli army officer who fired the entire magazine of his automatic rifle into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl and then said he would have done the same even if she had been three years old was acquitted on all charges by a military court yesterday.

The soldier, who has only been identified as "Captain R", was charged with relatively minor offences for the killing of Iman al-Hams who was shot 17 times as she ventured near an Israeli army post near Rafah refugee camp in Gaza a year ago.

The manner of Iman's killing, and the revelation of a tape recording in which the captain is warned that she was just a child who was "scared to death", made the shooting one of the most controversial since the Palestinian intifada erupted five years ago even though hundreds of other children have also died.

After the verdict, Iman's father, Samir al-Hams, said the army never intended to hold the soldier accountable.

"They did not charge him with Iman's murder, only with small offences, and now they say he is innocent of those even though he shot my daughter so many times," he said. "This was the cold-blooded murder of a girl. The soldier murdered her once and the court has murdered her again. What is the message? They are telling their soldiers to kill Palestinian children."

The military court cleared the soldier of illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and perverting the course of justice by asking soldiers under his command to alter their accounts of the incident.

Capt R's lawyers argued that the "confirmation of the kill" after a suspect is shot was a standard Israeli military practice to eliminate terrorist threats.

Following the verdict, Capt R burst into tears, turned to the public benches and said: "I told you I was innocent."

The army's official account said that Iman was shot for crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb. It is still not known why the girl ventured into the area but witnesses described her as at least 100 yards from the military post which was in any case well protected.

A recording of radio exchanges between Capt R and his troops obtained by Israeli television revealed that from the beginning soldiers identified Iman as a child.

In the recording, a soldier in a watchtower radioed a colleague in the army post's operations room and describes Iman as "a little girl" who was "scared to death". After soldiers first opened fire, she dropped her schoolbag which was then hit by several bullets establishing that it did not contain explosive. At that point she was no longer carrying the bag and, the tape revealed, was heading away from the army post when she was shot.

Although the military speculated that Iman might have been trying to "lure" the soldiers out of their base so they could be attacked by accomplices, Capt R made the decision to lead some of his troops into the open. Shortly afterwards he can be heard on the recording saying that he has shot the girl and, believing her dead, then "confirmed the kill".

"I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over," he said.

Palestinian witnesses said they saw the captain shoot Iman twice in the head, walk away, turn back and fire a stream of bullets into her body.

On the tape, Capt R then "clarifies" to the soldiers under his command why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the [security] zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed."

At no point did the Israeli troops come under attack.

The prosecution case was damaged when a soldier who initially said he had seen Capt R point his weapon at the girl's body and open fire later told the court he had fabricated the story.

Capt R claimed that he had not fired the shots at the girl but near her. However, Dr Mohammed al-Hams, who inspected the child's body at Rafah hospital, counted numerous wounds. "She has at least 17 bullets in several parts of the body, all along the chest, hands, arms, legs," he told the Guardian shortly afterwards. "The bullets were large and shot from a close distance. The most serious injuries were to her head. She had three bullets in the head. One bullet was shot from the right side of the face beside the ear. It had a big impact on the whole face."

The army's initial investigation concluded that the captain had "not acted unethically". But after some of the soldiers under his command went to the Israeli press to give a different version, the military police launched a separate investigation after which he was charged.

Capt R claimed that the soldiers under his command were out to get him because they are Jewish and he is Druze.

The transcript

The following is a recording of a three-way conversation that took place between a soldier in a watchtower, an army operations room and Capt R, who shot the girl

From the watchtower [three-way conversation between watchtower soldier, the operations room in another location, and finally, Captain R, the officer on the ground near watchtower "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward." "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?" "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death." "I think that one of the positions took her out." "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

From the operations room "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower "A girl about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot from one of the army posts

Watchtower "I think that one of the positions took her out."

Captain R "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

Capt R then "clarifies" why he killed Iman

"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...EtnzxoYcFI_20JkjfB4MluNPauFTW92HvPzNFsPfr9jtY

Lets not criticise or call this 'soldier' a terrorist or murderer because that would be anti-semitic.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Any Israeli supporters who want to defend this?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Any Israeli supporters who want to defend this?

Have some patience. They'll come soon enough.

 

[slipcatch]

They are better at science, so I guess, it makes it all Okay!

 

[shaykh]

Indeed a tragedy and the captain shouldn't have been jailed..the girl was confirmed as not being a combatant so there was no need for her to be killed...

A couple of things though...you're posting about something that happened 15 years ago...and you're exploiting her tragedy simply to make a sarcastic comment..

Are you aware of where those quotes are from?...they are from an Israeli documentary that aired on Israeli TV slamming the captain for his actions...

In fact the media at the time in Israel also laid into the captain...

The article that you presented also left quotes out from the documentary...which included how appalled other soldiers were with the captain and complained to their superiors about his conduct:

"We couldn't believe what he had done. Our hearts ached for her. Just a 13-year-old girl,"

I'll state again that the captain should have been jailed...that said it's worth providing a degree of context to this period you've decided to speak about 15 years later...

I presume you are aware that this was 2nd Intifada...so I have a question for you...are you ok with the fact that Palestinian groups sent U18's to do suicide bombings?...

Kids such as the 16 year old Hussam Abdo...who was described as being 'slow' by his brother...and someone whose father said he wanted to kill the guy who sent him to an Israeli checkpoint with 8kg of explosives...

Or the likes of Abdullah Quran a 12 year old who was disarmed while carrying a bomb...

Or Ayat Al Akhras who was a girl who was successful with her suicide bombing and was another U18...

So I've said it before...by using children in combat situations...and thus engaging in irregular warfare it is inevitable that bad things will happen...

This doesn't remove responsibility from Captain-R who seemed to have an axe to grind ...nor does it excuse the IDF for not punishing him...but simply using 'schoolgirl' as language to make a point is disingenuous ...

As is your pretense that you actually care about Palestinian children when their lives only matter when the perpetrators of crimes are Israeli...

You support organisations that deliberately put the children in harms way, use them in combat situations...

And you also support the murder of Israeli children...they are after all 'legitimate targets' in your eyes...

If you actually cared about the Palestinians then you would appreciate that those who claim to be their representers do nothing but oppress them...

Criticism of Israel is fine...but when it's the only thing you seem to criticise then it seems somewhat suspect...

 

[Lonewarrior]

Its really very sad. dont have a word to describe. the arab nations are at each other throats while the enemy is having fun.
btw, i cant understand whats this whole "anti-semitic" thing. i mean i do know but why we cant criticize the jews ? are they special breed or what ?

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Israel, zionists and anyone who defends Israel and their action are evil filth.

Simple as that

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yes it wasnt long. So the Zionist defence its an old story, the captain should have been jailed BUT BUT Israel cant take all the blame because Palestinians use kids as bombers or sheilds. Israelis murder children all the time. Even the UN had no choice but to say the Zionist state deliberatly targets children but to some these evil people are the good guys and those they are occupying are the evil ones.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Israel, zionists and anyone who defends Israel and their action are evil filth.

Simple as that

actions*

 

[KingKhanWC]

Its really very sad. dont have a word to describe. the arab nations are at each other throats while the enemy is having fun.
btw, i cant understand whats this whole "anti-semitic" thing. i mean i do know but why we cant criticize the jews ? are they special breed or what ?

Its not even Jews not, it's Israeli as a nation. New laws are being passed where any criticism of Israeli is seen as antisemitism. The reason is they dont want anyone to highlight Israeli crimes, they want them to remain hidden.

 

[The_Odd_One]

It is a tragedy but one must understand that the captain did not indulge in any personal revenge.

He was just following the protocol. Anything mobile in the security zone needed to be killed. The questions is what kind of parents leave their 13 years old girl to wander with a school bag in a highly restricted zone?

 

[shaykh]

Yes it wasnt long. So the Zionist defence its an old story, the captain should have been jailed BUT BUT Israel cant take all the blame because Palestinians use kids as bombers or sheilds. Israelis murder children all the time. Even the UN had no choice but to say the Zionist state deliberatly targets children but to some these evil people are the good guys and those they are occupying are the evil ones.

You really have an inability to address points...

You asked if anyone would call him a murderer...and then tried to suggest that doing so would mean someone being called an Anti-semite...It's strawmanning and hyperbole...

To recap:

Israeli media laid into this captain...and this created a huge debate about the rules of engagement even while Palestinian militants were indiscriminately targeting Israelis, killing children and celebrating it...

The documentary that is source for your original post is an Israeli made documentary...which aired on Israeli TV...

Foreign media also covered this incident and criticised Israel...

So what of your claim of Israelis complaining about criticism of them being Anti-Semitic during this incident when foreign media condemned this incident...as did Israeli media...

So your original point is disingenuous to say the least...

No excuses were made for THIS incident...I am simply referring to your use of language when referring to children...when there are many cases of Palestinian organisations arming children...

Like I have said for all your bluster you have constantly displayed that your interest has nothing to do with Palestinian children...cos you only feel condemnation is applicable when the perpetrators are Israelis...

A sincere debate can be had but not with a person who supports the murder of children providing they are on the other side...and defends and supports organisations who exploit children for their own ends...

 

[KingKhanWC]

It is a tragedy but one must understand that the captain did not indulge in any personal revenge.

He was just following the protocol. Anything mobile in the security zone needed to be killed. The questions is what kind of parents leave their 13 years old girl to wander with a school bag in a highly restricted zone?

The Israeli protocol is to spray childen with bullets who are walking away with no bag or are no danger to them? I assume you are proud of the soldiers actions?

 

[marlonbrowndo]

It is a tragedy but one must understand that the captain did not indulge in any personal revenge.

He was just following the protocol. Anything mobile in the security zone needed to be killed. The questions is what kind of parents leave their 13 years old girl to wander with a school bag in a highly restricted zone?

The disgusting mentality doesn’t take long to surface

 

[The_Odd_One]

The Israeli protocol is to spray childen with bullets who are walking away with no bag or are no danger to them? I assume you are proud of the soldiers actions?

Don't twist my words. I already said it is a tragedy.

You are however trying to score cheap points by exploiting the situation. It was not like the soldier entered their house and killed them. A living person was wandering in a restricted zone and following the protocol he neutralized it. There is nothing that suggests that he found some pleasure in killing a kid.

 

[The_Odd_One]

The disgusting mentality doesn’t take long to surface

So does the victim mentality

 

[KingKhanWC]

You really have an inability to address points...

You asked if anyone would call him a murderer...and then tried to suggest that doing so would mean someone being called an Anti-semite...It's strawmanning and hyperbole...

To recap:

Israeli media laid into this captain...and this created a huge debate about the rules of engagement even while Palestinian militants were indiscriminately targeting Israelis, killing children and celebrating it...

The documentary that is source for your original post is an Israeli made documentary...which aired on Israeli TV...

Foreign media also covered this incident and criticised Israel...

So what of your claim of Israelis complaining about criticism of them being Anti-Semitic during this incident when foreign media condemned this incident...as did Israeli media...

So your original point is disingenuous to say the least...

No excuses were made for THIS incident...I am simply referring to your use of language when referring to children...when there are many cases of Palestinian organisations arming children...

Like I have said for all your bluster you have constantly displayed that your interest has nothing to do with Palestinian children...cos you only feel condemnation is applicable when the perpetrators are Israelis...

A sincere debate can be had but not with a person who supports the murder of children providing they are on the other side...and defends and supports organisations who exploit children for their own ends...

I know you're very uspet when anyone criticises Israel and Im happy everyone on here can see what your views are and what type of mentality you have.

It's you who should try reading carefully, I mentioned criticism of Israeli is seen as anti-semitism in general not in this particular case. Do you feel its racism to criticise Israel?

You are making excuses by pointing to Palestinians arming children. This child was not armed and was walking away but I know this hasnt made you feel sad but has made you happy.

Zionists lie , this is the norm for them. So unless you can prove I wrote Israeli children are legitimate targets , I suggest you fine tune your lies.

Keep it up though, the zionists will pay you for you good work in supporting and defending their crimes.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

So does the victim mentality

Yeah you’re right. Palestinians are the victims

 

[KingKhanWC]

Don't twist my words. I already said it is a tragedy.

You are however trying to score cheap points by exploiting the situation. It was not like the soldier entered their house and killed them. A living person was wandering in a restricted zone and following the protocol he neutralized it. There is nothing that suggests that he found some pleasure in killing a kid.

Imo you and all Israeli fans find pleasure in such incidents but of course you cant openly say this. Anyone with a mentality of supporting Israel feel pleased when their heros kill innocent people.

The child was walking away, yet you continue to justify it by saying 'a living person was wandering'? Do you not see how disgusting your views are ? Silly question, of course you dont, you're a Zionist supporter.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

Imo you and all Israeli fans find pleasure in such incidents but of course you cant openly say this. Anyone with a mentality of supporting Israel feel pleased when their heros kill innocent people.

The child was walking away, yet you continue to justify it by saying 'a living person was wandering'? Do you not see how disgusting your views are ? Silly question, of course you dont, you're a Zionist supporter.

It disgusts me that humans like this even exist tbh

 

[KingKhanWC]

It disgusts me that humans like this even exist tbh

It's important people see such views so they know what type of people they are having conversations with.

Israel targets children purposely because in their sick minds, these kids wont grow up to resist them.

More children than Palestinian fighters are being killed in the offensive on Gaza. The name, age, sex and location of 132 of the 155 Palestinian children killed have been collected by the Al Mezan Centre for Human Rights

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...tinian-children-killed-by-Israeli-forces.html

 

[The_Odd_One]

Imo you and all Israeli fans find pleasure in such incidents but of course you cant openly say this. Anyone with a mentality of supporting Israel feel pleased when their heros kill innocent people.

The child was walking away, yet you continue to justify it by saying 'a living person was wandering'? Do you not see how disgusting your views are ? Silly question, of course you dont, you're a Zionist supporter.

You are just making assumption after assumption.

If Israelis found pleasure in killing Palestinians, there would be no Palestinians left.

Walking away after leaving her bag? Besides, the violation had been already made. It does not make a difference if one walks away after that.

India also just walked away after they violated LoC, why was Pakistan so riled up then that they had to show a reaction?

 

[KingKhanWC]

You are just making assumption after assumption.

If Israelis found pleasure in killing Palestinians, there would be no Palestinians left.

Walking away after leaving her bag? Besides, the violation had been already made. It does not make a difference if one walks away after that.

India also just walked away after they violated LoC, why was Pakistan so riled up then that they had to show a reaction?

Thats better, you are justifying this clearer now. What was the violation please explain in detail?

 

[The_Odd_One]

Yeah you’re right. Palestinians are the victims

None forced them to wage a war on Israel or decline the offer to get their land back or elect terrorist organizations like Hammas.

Palestinians have none but only themselves to blame for their predicament.

 

[Pakpak]

There are many crimes that go on which are done by the IDF but don't reported. Sadly, the Palestinians have been massively let down by all the Arab brethren. Who are more interested in crushing domestic dissent (Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia to name a few) than trying to sort out the indiscriminate brutal murders, occupation of their fellow Arabs by the Israelis.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Thats better, you are justifying this clearer now. What was the violation please explain in detail?

<b>crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb</b>

 

[KingKhanWC]

There are many crimes that go on which are done by the IDF but don't reported. Sadly, the Palestinians have been massively let down by all the Arab brethren. Who are more interested in crushing domestic dissent (Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia to name a few) than trying to sort out the indiscriminate brutal murders, occupation of their fellow Arabs by the Israelis.

This is true but this thread is regarding the deliberate targetting of children by Israelis. You can see the link I posted above, babies have been murdered. Yet we have the friends of Israel desperate to defend this, it shows all you need to know about such people.

 

[KingKhanWC]

<b>crossing into a security zone carrying her schoolbag which soldiers feared might contain a bomb</b>

Please outline the 'security zone' where are the lines, many people dont know. She left the bag and was walking away when shot dead.

 

[shaykh]

I know you're very uspet when anyone criticises Israel and Im happy everyone on here can see what your views are and what type of mentality you have.

It's you who should try reading carefully, I mentioned criticism of Israeli is seen as anti-semitism in general not in this particular case. Do you feel its racism to criticise Israel?

You are making excuses by pointing to Palestinians arming children. This child was not armed and was walking away but I know this hasnt made you feel sad but has made you happy.

Zionists lie , this is the norm for them. So unless you can prove I wrote Israeli children are legitimate targets , I suggest you fine tune your lies.

Keep it up though, the zionists will pay you for you good work in supporting and defending their crimes.

You are free to criticise Israel...no-one is calling you an Anti-Semite for this post...and no it is not racism to criticise Israel...

THAT child was not armed...are you going to dispute that Palestinian organisations during the second intifadah sent children younger than this girl even with bombs...some of which were successful...

Quick question...since you clearly disagree that Israeli children are not legitimate targets...are you going to state that suicide bombings which didn't target military targets were wrong?...

Also is it wrong when Hamas exploits children?...or is it only a problem when Israel is the perpetrator...

“At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials”

I do hope this appalls you but as you consistently show...you're not remotely interested in the fate of Palestinian children...so I await another deflection from you...

 

[Technics 1210]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...EtnzxoYcFI_20JkjfB4MluNPauFTW92HvPzNFsPfr9jtY

Lets not criticise or call this 'soldier' a terrorist or murderer because that would be anti-semitic.

Sickening. These animals kill innocent lives and the say whoopsy daisy, sorry!

Though notice how those who protect and trumpet anti-semtisim are nowhere to be seen in this thread, and the only people defending the OP in public right now are terrorist sycophants who'd sell their mothers if it meant getting in bed with Israel.

 

[Pakpak]

This is true but this thread is regarding the deliberate targetting of children by Israelis. You can see the link I posted above, babies have been murdered. Yet we have the friends of Israel desperate to defend this, it shows all you need to know about such people.

There was an article I read a while back, about how Israelis openly shoot i.e use live bullets on the border when tear gas would do.

Absolutely no respect for human life. I don't watch Palestinian conflict videos anymore, it simply is quite heartbreaking.

 

[Pakpak]

You are free to criticise Israel...no-one is calling you an Anti-Semite for this post...and no it is not racism to criticise Israel...

THAT child was not armed...are you going to dispute that Palestinian organisations during the second intifadah sent children younger than this girl even with bombs...some of which were successful...

Quick question...since you clearly disagree that Israeli children are not legitimate targets...are you going to state that suicide bombings which didn't target military targets were wrong?...

Also is it wrong when Hamas exploits children?...or is it only a problem when Israel is the perpetrator...



I do hope this appalls you but as you consistently show...you're not remotely interested in the fate of Palestinian children...so I await another deflection from you...

The fact that the situation is so horrific and desperate that you have children blowing up soldiers should be enough to warrant everyone to say *** is going on? Instead we have defenders saying but 'oh kids have bombs!'

 

[The_Odd_One]

Please outline the 'security zone' where are the lines, many people dont know. She left the bag and was walking away when shot dead.

Left the bag and walked away

Wow, so that means the person should not face the consequences? Next time, a person breaks into your house, leaves a bomb, and walks away, do not show any reaction.

 

[KingKhanWC]

You are free to criticise Israel...no-one is calling you an Anti-Semite for this post...and no it is not racism to criticise Israel...

THAT child was not armed...are you going to dispute that Palestinian organisations during the second intifadah sent children younger than this girl even with bombs...some of which were successful...

Quick question...since you clearly disagree that Israeli children are not legitimate targets...are you going to state that suicide bombings which didn't target military targets were wrong?...

Also is it wrong when Hamas exploits children?...or is it only a problem when Israel is the perpetrator...



I do hope this appalls you but as you consistently show...you're not remotely interested in the fate of Palestinian children...so I await another deflection from you...

You openly lied in your rush to defend child killers claiming Im the same as your friends. It's good we have seen more of your Zionist mentality on here, Israelis are the masters of deception and lies.

Each situation is different, any military targets, settler colonies and those who may have been part of an occupying force are legitmate.

Now you are doing the other Zionist trick, diverting it so you get others to defend. This thread is about Israelis murdering children. Click on the link I posted and defend the murder of each child named. You will get a pay rise for trying.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Left the bag and walked away

Wow, so that means the person should not face the consequences? Next time, a person breaks into your house, leaves a bomb, and walks away, do not show any reaction.

Its a child with a school bag who happens to live in a refugee camp nearby. If you had the intelligence to realise she wasnt in anyones home or anyone elses land you wouldn't ask such questions.

Do you believe any children who come near any Israeli should be shot dead?

 

[The_Odd_One]

Its a child with a school bag who happens to live in a refugee camp nearby. If you had the intelligence to realise she wasnt in anyones home or anyone elses land you wouldn't ask such questions.

Do you believe any children who come near any Israeli should be shot dead?

Things would have been different if Palestinians had stayed away from suicide bombing in the past.

 

[shaykh]

The fact that the situation is so horrific and desperate that you have children blowing up soldiers should be enough to warrant everyone to say *** is going on? Instead we have defenders saying but 'oh kids have bombs!'

Here's the thing..what is your solution?...KKWC wants the Israelis to all leave...

Lets put things in perspective for a minute...70% of Israelis were born in Israel...you expect them to get up and leave?...

The problem can't be solved now...but it needn't have got this bad...

Displacement is not unique ...it has happened to plenty of people...so why has this one retained it's character?...

I come from a family of refugees myself: my grandmother was born and raised in India and was part of the population exchange that took place between Hindus and Muslims...She eventually ended up in Pakistan and became a Pakistani citizen...My father was born and raised in Uganda but was expelled by Idi Amin...He settled in the UK and became British.

I in turn was born in Britain and see myself as British...I identify with Pakistan especially when it comes to cricket and have absolutely no relationship with India or Uganda...

Why do I mention my personal story you wonder? The big issue with the Palestinian refugee issue is that 700,000 were refugees after 1948 not the 5 million that we have now...

It was a solvable problem...

Independence always comes at a price and the losers are always displaced...Usually what happens is the losers end up with citizenship elsewhere...I gave the example of the partition of India which ended with a population exchange...So did the Serbs who were expelled from Croatia became Serbian and vice versa with Croatians...or look at all the Turks who were expelled when different nations took their independence and went to Turkey...

You get absorbed in your new population...create a new life and a new nationality...this is what has happened throughout all of history...but not here...Palestinians care so much cos they have been forced to...they never had the opportunity to rebuild...so I understand their anger and their frustration...

What is shameful about the Palestinian situation is that the refugees that resulted from Israel's victory did not get citizenship from the very nations that refused the partition plan, went to war and lost...Let's not forget these nations didn't go to war to assist Palestinian self determination but to expand their own borders: Jordan (which did give refugees citizenship initially) annexed the West Bank and the Egyptians took Gaza...

There are 4.6 million Palestinians living in Arab countries at present and these countries have shamefully justified their decision to keep Palestinians as refugees, in camps by saying it puts pressure on Israel...

The Palestinian leaderships are quiet about these things. For example: 250,000 Palestinians were deported from Kuwait as a punishment for the PLO support for Saddam Hussein. In Lebanon Palestinians are not allowed to own property, and are banned from working as doctors, lawyers, pharmacists among other professions.

Saudi Arabia has 240,000 Palestinians it hasn't given citizenship to. And Egypt hasn't granted legal rights to its 70,000 Palestinians. Things like free education rights which are granted to Egyptians are not granted to Palestinians. They have to pay for school and university while Egyptians don’t. Furthermore, in order to get a residency permit Palestinians have to pay a fee and to prove they have a valid reason for being in Egypt: a job or being married to an Egyptian. If these terms aren't met the residency isn't given and many Palestinians are at risk of jail or deportation.

A member of the Lebanese parliament Ghassan Moukheiber once said ‘our official policy is to maintain Palestinians in a vulnerable, precarious situation to diminish prospects for their naturalization or permanent settlement’.

Palestinians in Syria are not allowed to vote or hold Syrian passports. Even if a Palestinian man marries a Syrian woman he still barred from getting Syrian citizenship...

Gaddafi deported thousands. He spoke of making them ‘camp out in the wilderness' and he justified it by stating Israel will create a Palestinian state without Palestinians and by allowing Palestinians to stay Arab nations were assisting the Zionist plan...

Jordan is often commended for being the beacon of light but that couldn't be further from the truth. They did take on 100,000 refugees after the 1948 war and give them citizenship but today 2 million out of Jordan's population of 6 million are Palestinian ‘refugees’. Even those who are citizens live under the threat of having their citizenship revoked. Many have had their identity cards already revoked. Many Palestinians in Jordan complain about the fact that they are not provided with identity cards which allow them to work or send their children to public school.

This is touching the surface and truth is the Palestinian leadership doesn't discuss this. While Arabs worldwide burn Israeli flags and talk about Israel's treatment of Palestinians many themselves do not want Palestinians to have equal rights to them as they prefer to have monopoly over jobs etc...

Israel took on all the Jews from Arab countries that were either expelled or left and gave them citizenship - that was over 850,000 of them. And Israeli Arabs have it much better than Arabs anywhere else...

In short had the Arabs absorbed the refugees created from their military loss then we likely wouldn't be discussing this conflict today...

But unfortunately that ship has sailed...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Things would have been different if Palestinians had stayed away from suicide bombing in the past.

You implied the child was on Israeli land when you wrote "Next time, a person breaks into your house, leaves a bomb, and walks away, do not show any reaction" so please show us? Where was the child shot multiple times?

 

[shaykh]

You openly lied in your rush to defend child killers claiming Im the same as your friends. It's good we have seen more of your Zionist mentality on here, Israelis are the masters of deception and lies.

Each situation is different, any military targets, settler colonies and those who may have been part of an occupying force are legitmate.

Now you are doing the other Zionist trick, diverting it so you get others to defend. This thread is about Israelis murdering children. Click on the link I posted and defend the murder of each child named. You will get a pay rise for trying.

Sorry where have I lied?...

I'll ask you specifically...suicide bombings on buses where children are present...and no military...

Not a diversion at all...You just aren't credible...I've met people who care about the Arab cause and you know what they don't support the people you do...and they don't like Israel either...

It's the fact that the only children who matter to you are those who die by Israeli bullets matter that exposes your complete lack of interest in these people beyond making a few points on a keyboard...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Sickening. These animals kill innocent lives and the say whoopsy daisy, sorry!

Though notice how those who protect and trumpet anti-semtisim are nowhere to be seen in this thread, and the only people defending the OP in public right now are terrorist sycophants who'd sell their mothers if it meant getting in bed with Israel.

Im sure they would.

I dont believe in the anti-semitism nonsense when criticising Israel. What they cannot defend they will either divert or claim its racism. It's also interesting such people hate Muslims/Islam, this isn't a coincidence because their heros feel the same. Israeli supporters will lie and fabricate anything to support their heros , as you can see in this thread. One is now claiming I want all Israelis to leave , yes leave land which doesn't belong to them but they wont make this clear.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Sorry where have I lied?...

I'll ask you specifically...suicide bombings on buses where children are present...and no military...

Not a diversion at all...You just aren't credible...I've met people who care about the Arab cause and you know what they don't support the people you do...and they don't like Israel either...

It's the fact that the only children who matter to you are those who die by Israeli bullets matter that exposes your complete lack of interest in these people beyond making a few points on a keyboard...

There is no need to use the word 'sorry' Israeli suppoters like yourself are not sorry about anything. You claimed I support the targetting and killing of Israeli children but cant prove this lie.

You're the credible one everyone can see you are very credible in defending Israeli crimes. Once again you are using Zionist diverstion tactics and making up lies.

Btw hilliarious you are now posting your own personal story to gain sympathy, another Zionist tactic. It's probably all lies but even if true, it means nothing when you support Israeli occuption and terrorism.

 

[shaykh]

There is no need to use the word 'sorry' Israeli suppoters like yourself are not sorry about anything. You claimed I support the targetting and killing of Israeli children but cant prove this lie.

You're the credible one everyone can see you are very credible in defending Israeli crimes. Once again you are using Zionist diverstion tactics and making up lies.

Btw hilliarious you are now posting your own personal story to gain sympathy, another Zionist tactic. It's probably all lies but even if true, it means nothing when you support Israeli occuption and terrorism.

Nope...I haven't retracted my claim...like i'm gonna bother to search through all your posts...it's better to clarify now...so answer the following:

Is it acceptable for a suicide bomber to enter a bus and let it off when it contains children with no soldiers ?...

 

[KingKhanWC]

H

What is shameful about the Palestinian situation is that the refugees that resulted from Israel's victory did not get citizenship from the very nations that refused the partition plan, went to war and lost...Let's not forget these nations didn't go to war to assist Palestinian self determination but to expand their own borders: Jordan (which did give refugees citizenship initially) annexed the West Bank and the Egyptians took Gaza...

There are 4.6 million Palestinians living in Arab countries at present and these countries have shamefully justified their decision to keep Palestinians as refugees, in camps by saying it puts pressure on Israel...

The Palestinian leaderships are quiet about these things. For example: 250,000 Palestinians were deported from Kuwait as a punishment for the PLO support for Saddam Hussein. In Lebanon Palestinians are not allowed to own property, and are banned from working as doctors, lawyers, pharmacists among other professions.

Saudi Arabia has 240,000 Palestinians it hasn't given citizenship to. And Egypt hasn't granted legal rights to its 70,000 Palestinians. Things like free education rights which are granted to Egyptians are not granted to Palestinians. They have to pay for school and university while Egyptians don’t. Furthermore, in order to get a residency permit Palestinians have to pay a fee and to prove they have a valid reason for being in Egypt: a job or being married to an Egyptian. If these terms aren't met the residency isn't given and many Palestinians are at risk of jail or deportation.

A member of the Lebanese parliament Ghassan Moukheiber once said ‘our official policy is to maintain Palestinians in a vulnerable, precarious situation to diminish prospects for their naturalization or permanent settlement’.

Palestinians in Syria are not allowed to vote or hold Syrian passports. Even if a Palestinian man marries a Syrian woman he still barred from getting Syrian citizenship...

Gaddafi deported thousands. He spoke of making them ‘camp out in the wilderness' and he justified it by stating Israel will create a Palestinian state without Palestinians and by allowing Palestinians to stay Arab nations were assisting the Zionist plan...

Jordan is often commended for being the beacon of light but that couldn't be further from the truth. They did take on 100,000 refugees after the 1948 war and give them citizenship but today 2 million out of Jordan's population of 6 million are Palestinian ‘refugees’. Even those who are citizens live under the threat of having their citizenship revoked. Many have had their identity cards already revoked. Many Palestinians in Jordan complain about the fact that they are not provided with identity cards which allow them to work or send their children to public school.

This is touching the surface and truth is the Palestinian leadership doesn't discuss this. While Arabs worldwide burn Israeli flags and talk about Israel's treatment of Palestinians many themselves do not want Palestinians to have equal rights to them as they prefer to have monopoly over jobs etc...

Israel took on all the Jews from Arab countries that were either expelled or left and gave them citizenship - that was over 850,000 of them. And Israeli Arabs have it much better than Arabs anywhere else...

In short had the Arabs absorbed the refugees created from their military loss then we likely wouldn't be discussing this conflict today...

But unfortunately that ship has sailed...

Another typical Zionist argument, your training went well I see.

Once they gain citizenship, the right of return is not longer valid. This is still part of any final solution so the Zionists dont want anyone coming back to their land.

Please ask for payrise.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Nope...I haven't retracted my claim...like i'm gonna bother to search through all your posts...it's better to clarify now...so answer the following:

Is it acceptable for a suicide bomber to enter a bus which contains children with no soldiers ...

You are a liar, dont make a claim you cannot back up.

Are you slow? I've already written the criteria for self defence and what is a legitimate target.

Now what is a legititmate target for your heros? Killing children who are no threat? How about using chemcial weapons? Or perhaps shooting dead protestors? Please do explain.

 

[shaykh]

Another typical Zionist argument, your training went well I see.

Once they gain citizenship, the right of return is not longer valid. This is still part of any final solution so the Zionists dont want anyone coming back to their land.

Please ask for payrise.

Much like every other nation that wins a conflict...

The interesting thing is...Palestinians were NEVER going to get their state even if the Arabs won...they would have just become part of another country which is what the Arab nations desired...I presume you dont consider the Jordanians or Egyptians as occupiers?...

Can you give me an example of countries which have allowed right of return to the opponent after winning a war?...

 

[shaykh]

You are a liar, dont make a claim you cannot back up.

Are you slow? I've already written the criteria for self defence and what is a legitimate target.

Now what is a legititmate target for your heros? Killing children who are no threat? How about using chemcial weapons? Or perhaps shooting dead protestors? Please do explain.

No you haven't...you wrote:

Each situation is different, any military targets, settler colonies and those who may have been part of an occupying force are legitmate.

You said each situation is different so I gave you a specific situation...

Is it ok for a suicide bomber to bomb a bus which contains no military and has children on it?...

Your evasiveness is answering the question...

 

[shaykh]

Ok here is a specific one...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_restaurant_suicide_bombing

21 dead...all civilians...3 were Arab Israelis...4 children died including a 2 month old baby...in Haifa so not a settlement...

The perpetrators father said:

"I will accept only congratulations for what she did. This was a gift she gave me, the homeland and the Palestinian people.

Was this ok or not?...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Much like every other nation that wins a conflict...

The interesting thing is...Palestinians were NEVER going to get their state even if the Arabs won...they would have just become part of another country which is what the Arab nations desired...I presume you dont consider the Jordanians or Egyptians as occupiers?...

Can you give me an example of countries which have allowed right of return to the opponent after winning a war?...

This is an accepted part of any deal to end the brutal occupation by Zionists but of course your memory has been erased regarding this.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No you haven't...you wrote:



You said each situation is different so I gave you a specific situation...

Is it ok for a suicide bomber to bomb a bus which contains no military and has children on it?...

Your evasiveness is answering the question...

Where did I state children are ok to be targetted. It's clear what are legitimate targets. Funny thing is you are the one foolishly making excuses here.

So please read the link I posted if you cant defend all those childrens deaths, just try to defend the babies which have been murdered.

 

[shaykh]

This is an accepted part of any deal to end the brutal occupation by Zionists but of course your memory has been erased regarding this.

Are you honestly trying to claim that the reason the Arabs didn't assimilate their Palestinian populations was because of their care for the Palestinians?...

Right of return won't happen...so it's kind of a moot point now...that ship has well and truly sailed...

 

[shaykh]

Where did I state children are ok to be targetted. It's clear what are legitimate targets. Funny thing is you are the one foolishly making excuses here.

So please read the link I posted if you cant defend all those childrens deaths, just try to defend the babies which have been murdered.

No it's not clear what are legitimate targets to you...

Again you were asked a question...just give a yes or a no...

Children and parents on a bus in Tel-Aviv...no military on the bus...is that a legitimate target or not?...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Are you honestly trying to claim that the reason the Arabs didn't assimilate their Palestinian populations was because of their care for the Palestinians?...

Right of return won't happen...so it's kind of a moot point now...that ship has well and truly sailed...

I dont care what the Arabs did and Im not here to defend them. The right of return is an essential part of any future deal, not that it will happen.

Yes you're happy those who lost their homes will probably never return to their lands but your Zionist state wont be like this forever either. Do you really think Israel will survive as it is now forever?

Anyway dont bother answering them, your diversions tactics are clear to see. Discussing with you or other Zionist supporters digusts me, so I will let you earn your corn with further justification of Zionist crimes.

 

[shaykh]

I dont care what the Arabs did and Im not here to defend them. The right of return is an essential part of any future deal, not that it will happen.

Yes you're happy those who lost their homes will probably never return to their lands but your Zionist state wont be like this forever either. Do you really think Israel will survive as it is now forever?

Anyway dont bother answering them, your diversions tactics are clear to see. Discussing with you or other Zionist supporters digusts me, so I will let you earn your corn with further justification of Zionist crimes.

Hyperbole...as per usual...why would I be happy about anyone losing their homes...point is there are winners and losers in any conflict...

And here's a very basic question...you ask about Israel's survival...it certainly won't happen by allowing right of return...it's a non starter now...too much has happened in 70 years...

And it is ironic you talking about diversion...how many times is it now that you have evaded a yes or no question about what a legitimate target is?...

You accused me of lying...so I asked you to correct me if i'm wrong...so let's see if you can finally answer the question...

A bus in Tel-Aviv with no military on it. It has families including children on it. Is that a legitimate target or not?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

At any given time, there'll be enough supporters of genocides and apartheid, and I don't think there is any need of indulging in dialogue with such people. Give them silent treatment and boycott them on this forum.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Hyperbole...as per usual...why would I be happy about anyone losing their homes...point is there are winners and losers in any conflict...

And here's a very basic question...you ask about Israel's survival...it certainly won't happen by allowing right of return...it's a non starter now...too much has happened in 70 years...

And it is ironic you talking about diversion...how many times is it now that you have evaded a yes or no question about what a legitimate target is?...

You accused me of lying...so I asked you to correct me if i'm wrong...so let's see if you can finally answer the question...

A bus in Tel-Aviv with no military on it. It has families including children on it. Is that a legitimate target or not?

I think the allies in the WOT used to call this collateral damage
Which is probably what Israeli press officers would call raids on the disputed territories
Or maybe accuse the kids of being Human shields

 

[gazza619]

Absolutely sickening!

My heart is crying thinking what this little soul would have gone through

 

[JaDed]

There is no justice in the world, modern democracies atleast have some of it which is why people move to such countries mostly set by white Christians after years of war, thankful to them being more conscious.

Its such a sad situation now one can only imagine how the kings ruled with iron fist crushing and killing people as needed, and people hail Mongols and call Alexander a great.

But what is different is how posters have actually called the old conquerers brave and strong and now when Israel is following sick rules of same conquering nations they have an issue.
Not to forget how posters refuse to even acknowledge Chinese brutality.

 

[Gilly]

Yet the same people are silent about Hamas deliberately firing missiles into residential areas.

 

[miandadrules]

There is no justice in the world, modern democracies atleast have some of it which is why people move to such countries mostly set by white Christians after years of war, thankful to them being more conscious.

Its such a sad situation now one can only imagine how the kings ruled with iron fist crushing and killing people as needed, and people hail Mongols and call Alexander a great.

But what is different is how posters have actually called the old conquerers brave and strong and now when Israel is following sick rules of same conquering nations they have an issue.
Not to forget how posters refuse to even acknowledge Chinese brutality.

I don’t know who you are referring to but it can’t be @KKWC.

He is ultimately a humanitarian, who wants to alleviate the suffering for all of mankind.

Please refer to the link below for his impassioned defence of Islamic Slavery and the need to sexual exploit female captive to integrate them.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...s-amp-Moving-Past-Window-Dressing-Islam/page2

Last post.

 

[miandadrules]

Israel is a brutal apartheid state which isn’t being held accountable for its actions.

It’s a failing of the international community that we are allowing such atrocities to continue. In fact the overwhelming number of people are having their perception shaped upon their view of Muslims and Islam in general.

One also has to hold Saudi, Egypt, Syria and Jordan accountable for their role in the persecution of the Palestinians.

 

[Kriketer]

Things would have been different if Palestinians had stayed away from suicide bombing in the past.

I guess only way to test it out is if you let someone visit and have them kick you and your family out of your home, let's see what you response would be You better not retaliate ok. Booting you and your family out should be justifiable in some way I guess by your logic.

Don't post garbage if you don't know the ground realities.

 

[miandadrules]

None forced them to wage a war on Israel or decline the offer to get their land back or elect terrorist organizations like Hammas.

Palestinians have none but only themselves to blame for their predicament.

What a ridiculous statement. Victim blaming.

Make no mistake the Palestinians are the victims of this situation. They are being exploited by their leadership but that doesn’t make the people culpable.

To expect no retaliation after being subject to such brutality is absurd.

Let me guess would you rather they allowed it to continue until the Israeli state gets tired of it?

 

[finalfantasy7]

Yet the same people are silent about Hamas deliberately firing missiles into residential areas.

Can you prove the above, not hamas firing missiles we all know they do, but the same posters turn a blind eye?

Nice Post gilly - 13 yr old gun down for no reason, unarmed, scared, inoocent.

I bet gilly would like to post numbers and facts.

I bet not

 

[Vegitto1]

Have some patience. They'll come soon enough.

Only the non-Muslim posters would come and defend this.

 

[Mamoon]

Only the non-Muslim posters would come and defend this.

So are you implying that this is a religious issue and not a humanitarian one?

 

[marlonbrowndo]

So are you implying that this is a religious issue and not a humanitarian one?

I know you always like to point out hypocrisy of Pakistanis/Muslims etc when it comes to this issue which is ok but what what are your personal thoughts on the issue. I don’t want your thoughts about Pakistanis caring about only this or that genocide.

 

[Mamoon]

I know you always like to point out hypocrisy of Pakistanis/Muslims etc when it comes to this issue which is ok but what what are your personal thoughts on the issue. I don’t want your thoughts about Pakistanis caring about only this or that genocide.

Three years ago, I did extensive research on the history of Middle East as well as this conflict.

Nonetheless, I do not want to comment on this issue because people will forcefully try to find something controversial and put words in my mouth.

It doesn’t concern Pakistan so I would prefer to refrain from talking on this issue in depth.

 

[The_Odd_One]

You implied the child was on Israeli land when you wrote "Next time, a person breaks into your house, leaves a bomb, and walks away, do not show any reaction" so please show us? Where was the child shot multiple times?

Near an Israeli watchtower holding a bag which could have carried anything. If the captain had acted out of line, he would have been prosecuted. Israel is a strong democracy not a dictatorship who won't even leave their PM from impeachment.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I guess only way to test it out is if you let someone visit and have them kick you and your family out of your home, let's see what you response would be You better not retaliate ok. Booting you and your family out should be justifiable in some way I guess by your logic.

Don't post garbage if you don't know the ground realities.

Your analogy is wrong because it was the Arabs who waged a war on Israel. When they lost the war, they brought up the victim card.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Near an Israeli watchtower holding a bag which could have carried anything. If the captain had acted out of line, he would have been prosecuted. Israel is a strong democracy not a dictatorship who won't even leave their PM from impeachment.

Your heroic captain stated he would have shot dead a 3 year old if he could, read the transcript. The child was murdered while walking away from the school bag, there was no threat to your heros.

Since you like to defend them , see the link the below and defend the killings of the children 2 years and less on the list.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...tinian-children-killed-by-Israeli-forces.html

 

[The_Odd_One]

What a ridiculous statement. Victim blaming.

Make no mistake the Palestinians are the victims of this situation. They are being exploited by their leadership but that doesn’t make the people culpable.

To expect no retaliation after being subject to such brutality is absurd.

Let me guess would you rather they allowed it to continue until the Israeli state gets tired of it?

Palestinians opted for violence to resolve the issue which was never going to work. First they sold their land to Jews, then they started a war when they could not tolerate living with Jews, they refused the offer to get their land back unlike Egypt which seized the opportunity and enjoys great relationships with Israel. They throw stones and fire rockets in Israel, carry out suicide bombing, and then they complaint about Israel's retaliation.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Your heroic captain stated he would have shot dead a 3 year old if he could, read the transcript. The child was murdered while walking away from the school bag, there was no threat to your heros.

Since you like to defend them , see the link the below and defend the killings of the children 2 years and less on the list.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...tinian-children-killed-by-Israeli-forces.html

He's not my hero first of all. Second, I do not support the killing of children. I have already said it numerous times that it was a tragedy, a very unfortunate event. However, you created this thread with an agenda and tried to portray the captain as some serial assassin who enjoyed killing children rather than following his military protocol.

 

[Kriketer]

Your analogy is wrong because it was the Arabs who waged a war on Israel. When they lost the war, they brought up the victim card.

Arabs waged the war? how far back is your clock going? Take it a few decades back and see who was dumped in from Europe during WW2. Analogy isn't wrong, once you and your family will get the boot from your house only then you will understand what it feels like to be taken over and be surveillanced 24x7. Your knowledge on ground realities are limited and biased.

Now tell me how Jews were promised the land of Palestine according to their book. Anyone who tries arguing against this whole conflict and blindly takes Israel's side is just an idiotic tool.

You still haven't responded. What would you do if you and your family will get the boot from your beloved house? Just give me a simple answer, would suffice.

 

[imrankhannsu]

Oh Allah! I fell so numb and empty. How can someone due something so horrific. Dont these people have any morals?