Pakistan’s all-important spin concern

[ManFan]

Pakistan has to play 3 Test matches against AUS and NZ (each) in the UAE this upcoming year. Yasir Shah has carried the attack and more importantly, Pakistan’s web of spin, single-handedly over the past four years. The recent series loss against SL was evident of the ineffectiveness of our inexperienced pace attack in the dry conditions of the UAE. Although Yasir performed his part with 16 wickets in 2 matches, it was not enough to stun Pakistan to its first ever Test series lost in its adopted home since 2010. Pakistan has Asghar as a backup spinner but the management’s distrust in his ability to perform is concerning for Pakistan’s spin future. The question than arises, who is able enough to replace an aging Yasir and carry the futile pace attack on the dead tracks of the UAE? The only options I see are Shadab Khan, Zafar Gohar, Mohammad Asghar, and Raza Hasan. Out of all the considerable options, only R. Hasan seems to be the complete package in terms of drift, bounce, spin, experience, and potential batting. If Pakistan want to avoid series losses against NZ and AUS come late 2018, than they need to invest in new, raw, and hungry spinners who can wallow the opposition in their avarice to succeed.

 

[Markhor]

There's no lack of options which is good as Yasir Shah badly needs a spin partner. Plus competition will keep on his toes.

Raza Hasan and Zafar Gohar are the standouts but it seems the best way for youngsters to get noticed is through strong PSL performances.

Shadab Khan managed to get a Test debut on the back of his PSL and LOI displays in the West Indies.

 

[ManFan]

There's no lack of options which is good as Yasir Shah badly needs a spin partner. Plus competition will keep on his toes.

Raza Hasan and Zafar Gohar are the standouts but it seems the best way for youngsters to get noticed is through strong PSL performances.

Shadab Khan managed to get a Test debut on the back of his PSL and LOI displays in the West Indies.

I really enjoy Shadab’s game. He has that old school Pakistani vibe about him. But he is too raw at 19 to be bowling leg-spin in Test match cricket. He over relies on the googly and his leg-spinner hasn’t become that threatening yet. I feel like Raza will have a decent PSL because it’s his first time facing international players in a while. But than again, if the likes of Nawaz can look like the second coming of Warne on the PSL wickets, than anything is possible. Gohar, along with Asghar, is too prone to getting hit which is why I don’t rate him as high as Raza.

 

[hadi123]

Still baffled to why we only played 1 spinner against SL and am sure we would have won both matches with a second spinner. That was the key to success under Misbah in UAE matches. I think Raza Hasan and Yasir Shah would be as lethal as Ajmal and Rehman were.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Mickey needs to let go off his 1 spinner strategy. You can't know if a spinner is good enough if you don't give him a chance. Raza and Gohar are potentially test class if they improve.

 

[Bewal Express]

Both Raza and Gohar are no where near international quality. Although Shadab has struggled lately he is a much better prospect than either. And i would also take Asghar over these 2 guys any day of the week.

 

[Hasan123]

There are spinners available. It's just that Mickey hasn't given them a chance . This needs to change in our next series in the UAE. We need to play another spinner . Ideally a spinner who can bowl a good tight line whilst Yasir is used as an attacking opition.

 

[ExplicitAI]

I'd say throw Asghar into the team and run havoc on any team that comes to the UAE. I really couldn't care less if all the bowlers have shared wickets, I just care about series wins. I think Asghar is ready to come good for Pak.

 

[DeadBall]

Series in the UAE. Really looking forward to that.

 

[aloo paratha]

Asghar is a class above bowlers like Zafar gohar and Raza Hasan.

 

[Hiraeth]

I don’t know why Asghar is so highly rated on this forum. Zafar in my opinion is the more superior bowler. Zafar is the biggest spinner of the ball, and gets more drift. And he’s no mug with the bat.

Zafar completely outclassed Asghar when the played alongside each other for Pakistan A.

Asghar isn’t a bad bowler, but he comes across as a bowler who is reliant on conditions rather than his own skills.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Didnt Pakistan give up on spin after Wahabs spell against Shane at the WC

 

[Square Drive]

Shadab should be our 5th bowler in Tests.

 

[CadPakFan]

I'm curious to see what would happen if Pakistan goes for four spinners in the UAE (Yasir, Raza, Asghar, and Shadab (5th Bowler)). But I think Yasir and Raza will be alright since Raza has past international experience unlike Asghar and Raza has a better first class record.

 

[Abdullah719]

I'm curious to see what would happen if Pakistan goes for four spinners in the UAE (Yasir, Raza, Asghar, and Shadab (5th Bowler)). But I think Yasir and Raza will be alright since Raza has past international experience unlike Asghar and Raza has a better first class record.

Four spinners? Let us select two first

 

[barah_admi]

Ageing Yasir? The guy is only 31 with 28 tests behind him. If Pak play 5-7 tests a year for the nxt 5 years, he'll be fine, considering he doesnt play any other international cricket.

I do agree that there should be a second spinner, especially against Aus who look lost against spin. Asghar may be the right choice but has he played enough FC cricket this year? How about Nawaz or Imad? I personally think Shadab is too young to play this much cricket and should be kept away from the test side.

 

[aloo paratha]

Ageing Yasir? The guy is only 31 with 28 tests behind him. If Pak play 5-7 tests a year for the nxt 5 years, he'll be fine, considering he doesnt play any other international cricket.

I do agree that there should be a second spinner, especially against Aus who look lost against spin. Asghar may be the right choice but has he played enough FC cricket this year? How about Nawaz or Imad? I personally think Shadab is too young to play this much cricket and should be kept away from the test side.

Therein lies the problem. Why is Pak management trying to have the second spinner be an AR? Have a genuine spinner. It's the UAE.

 

[Pete Rose]

Pakistan play New Zealand in this year, not Australia, for tests. The bigger issue for Pakistan (a) how to bat for three days in the first innings and (b) where to find the bowling attack that will get them wickets should they lose the toss and have to bat first.
And of course the bigger question is whether we want roads at home or sporting pitches.
To remind, there is no home advantage in making roads: it doesn’t benefit the home bowlers at all, unless Pakistan win toss to bat first

 

[Sarfarazian92]

Pakistan play New Zealand in this year, not Australia, for tests. The bigger issue for Pakistan (a) how to bat for three days in the first innings and (b) where to find the bowling attack that will get them wickets should they lose the toss and have to bat first.
And of course the bigger question is whether we want roads at home or sporting pitches.
To remind, there is no home advantage in making roads: it doesn’t benefit the home bowlers at all, unless Pakistan win toss to bat first

Our current batsmen aren't too good vs spin either so demanding sporting pitches might play into the opposition's hands.

 

[Pete Rose]

Our current batsmen aren't too good vs spin either so demanding sporting pitches might play into the opposition's hands.

If opposition batsmen > our batsmen, how will making roads help us win?

 

[Buffet]

If opposition batsmen > our batsmen, how will making roads help us win?

It can still help you avoid losing.

 

[Justcrazy]

Still baffled to why we only played 1 spinner against SL and am sure we would have won both matches with a second spinner. That was the key to success under Misbah in UAE matches. I think Raza Hasan and Yasir Shah would be as lethal as Ajmal and Rehman were.

No doubt

 

[Justcrazy]

Therein lies the problem. Why is Pak management trying to have the second spinner be an AR? Have a genuine spinner. It's the UAE.

No need for all rounder.

But if you want all rounder , go with one fast bowler , two spinners and two all rounders.

 

[hur rizvi]

We should play Shadab, Asghar and Yasir against Aussies and Kiwis

Bowling attack should be:

Hassan Ali, Abbas, Shadab, Asghar and Yasir

Playing XI:

Sami Aslam
Azhar
Babar
Haris
Asad
Sarfraz
Shadab
Yasir
Asghar
Hasan
Abbas

 

[hur rizvi]

No need for all rounder.

But if you want all rounder , go with one fast bowler , two spinners and two all rounders.

I think in UAE, Azhar can open and 1 opener can make way for Shadab. Play a genuine spinner in addition to Yasir along with two fast bowlers

If batting needs more cover have Faheem has 2nd fast bowler. Fast bowlers are just needed with new ball in UAE

 

[barah_admi]

Therein lies the problem. Why is Pak management trying to have the second spinner be an AR? Have a genuine spinner. It's the UAE.

It helps if a good spinner can also bat, so why not? What happened to the guy who used to bowl alongside Ajmal and the Rehman? The one with kinda weird teeth (I hate to say that).

 

[Hamad_H]

I don't think there is a huge problem because Yasir Shah is 31 and you have just named 4 promising players. It is a matter of whether they get groomed to eventually become the first choice spinner and they should get quite a bit of match experience before Yasir retires/is dropped as a 2nd spinner in UAE

 

[hadi123]

It helps if a good spinner can also bat, so why not? What happened to the guy who used to bowl alongside Ajmal and the Rehman? The one with kinda weird teeth (I hate to say that).

You mean Zulfiqar Babar?

 

[ShahidDar08]

one among these can be handy with Yasir,
Raza Hasan
Zafar Gowhar
Mohammed Asgar

 

[aloo paratha]

It helps if a good spinner can also bat, so why not? What happened to the guy who used to bowl alongside Ajmal and the Rehman? The one with kinda weird teeth (I hate to say that).

Yeah but neither Imad, Nawaz or Shadab are good enough to be test spinners.

 

[MMHS]

I was just writing in the SAF-IND ODI game, that this is the worst era of spin play in history. By spin play, I am not saying swing around spinners without footwork on a 60 metre ground with a 4 lbs mallet.

The key for every “modern” game (format) is genuine wicket taking spinners in middle overs (for Test after new ball). It’s not surprising actually that even in T20 highest ranked bowler was s spinner and Chahal, Shadab also running riot with ball.

In that regard, I see two problems with Arthur in UAE - first, he has to leave his fascination for darters or part-timers who can bat a bit. Second, he has to trust on his spinners.

First change I would expect that he’ll stop backing Imad, Nawaz, MoHa, Haris... type spinners in ODI/T20 - 2 genuine spinners to bowl in middle overs - Shadab is one, who fortunately is a capable batsman as well; his partner should be someone picked on only bowling merit, if he is to bat at 11, so it be. And, this should be more or less every where unless the condition is too adverse for spinners. Chahal & Kuldeep are running through SAF in middle overs IN SAF, which should be indicative of spin playing capacity of T20 era. May be in Asia, PAK can use Haris or Aga Salman or Saud as 3rd spunner, but 20 genuine spin overs is a must and Sarfraz has to back his 2 spinners with attacking fielding when he can spread out his fielders.

For Test, it’s same but PAK should use 4.5 bowlers, with 2 genuine spinners and the 0.5 spinner can be spin all-rounder like Aga or even Saud, who is bowling well these days.

That 1 spinner theory in 1st Test was foolish; but 2nd Test was pure stupidity and arrogance.

 

[barah_admi]

You mean Zulfiqar Babar?

yes! thats the one!

he bowled really well, where is he?

 

[hadi123]

yes! thats the one!

he bowled really well, where is he?

Hasn't played a domestic match since November 2017 in the T20 cup. I think he has played his last match for Pakistan, age isn't on his side.

 

[barah_admi]

I was just writing in the SAF-IND ODI game, that this is the worst era of spin play in history. By spin play, I am not saying swing around spinners without footwork on a 60 metre ground with a 4 lbs mallet.

The key for every “modern” game (format) is genuine wicket taking spinners in middle overs (for Test after new ball). It’s not surprising actually that even in T20 highest ranked bowler was s spinner and Chahal, Shadab also running riot with ball.

In that regard, I see two problems with Arthur in UAE - first, he has to leave his fascination for darters or part-timers who can bat a bit. Second, he has to trust on his spinners.

First change I would expect that he’ll stop backing Imad, Nawaz, MoHa, Haris... type spinners in ODI/T20 - 2 genuine spinners to bowl in middle overs - Shadab is one, who fortunately is a capable batsman as well; his partner should be someone picked on only bowling merit, if he is to bat at 11, so it be. And, this should be more or less every where unless the condition is too adverse for spinners. Chahal & Kuldeep are running through SAF in middle overs IN SAF, which should be indicative of spin playing capacity of T20 era. May be in Asia, PAK can use Haris or Aga Salman or Saud as 3rd spunner, but 20 genuine spin overs is a must and Sarfraz has to back his 2 spinners with attacking fielding when he can spread out his fielders.

For Test, it’s same but PAK should use 4.5 bowlers, with 2 genuine spinners and the 0.5 spinner can be spin all-rounder like Aga or even Saud, who is bowling well these days.

That 1 spinner theory in 1st Test was foolish; but 2nd Test was pure stupidity and arrogance.

I agree that spinners are a key for most matches these days, its why I called for 2 genuine spinners against NZ. There is no problem with Nawaz or imad, specifically the latter who was one of the best t20 players around before he got injured.

As for tests, I don't see why Nawaz shouldnt be given a shot or one of the other guys like Gohar. Personally bring back Zulfiqar for me.

 

[barah_admi]

Hasn't played a domestic match since November 2017 in the T20 cup. I think he has played his last match for Pakistan, age isn't on his side.

why not? bad form? injury? what happened?

 

[BlueDoritos]

No one has mentioned Mohammad Irfan, left arm spinner?

He's doing very well in the domestic cricket. He's 28 years old, not too late for test cricket.

He took 44 wickets at an average of 19 in the last first class season.

His career first class bowling average is 22, and he can bat a bit as well, averages 21 with some fifties.

Another similar player is Kashif Bhatti, but he's a bit older, 31 right now.

He took 49 wickets at an average of 16 in the last first class season.

His first class bowling and batting average is 24.


These 2 performed really well with the ball.
It's very impressive considering that the top 10 wicket takers are usually all fast bowlers who get a lot of help from the usual pitches of Pakistani first class Cricket.



I think limited overs teams don't need spinners as badly as the test team. Shadab alone is handful for any team, then we have good support spinner in Imad, who can bowl very good economical spells. Asghar and Mir can be selected for limited overs team as back up spinners. Agha Salman is a decent off spinner and he can bat as well, if he continues to perform in domestic cricket he might get a chance.

 

[MMHS]

I agree that spinners are a key for most matches these days, its why I called for 2 genuine spinners against NZ. There is no problem with Nawaz or imad, specifically the latter who was one of the best t20 players around before he got injured.

As for tests, I don't see why Nawaz shouldnt be given a shot or one of the other guys like Gohar. Personally bring back Zulfiqar for me.

Nawaz or Imad doesn't serve the purpose in a game where batsmen are not forced to go for a mad rush. Here, I am taking about spinners who can entice batsmen with flight & loop and get them out penetrating defense with spin and variation. I give this example many times - AUS chased 260+ at WACA, in 46 overs with 7 wickets at hand, from 50/2 or so from 15 overs, by milking MoHa & Imad for 5/6 singles every over (Can't recall ever the asking went above 6) - put couple of genuine spinners and a Captain better than Azhar Ali, Aussies won't have chased that target, or it would have taken a special effort from Smith, that too may be by last over and last pair.

The job that Imad or Nawaz doing in ODI, Haris actually can do as well if he is fit enough - BUT, the job Kuldeep or Chahal doing on a belter, these darters won't do even on turners. This "Dart syndrome" is killing PAK cricket in every scope - even in U19 WC, Captain Hasan is probably the most colorless Captains among last 8 teams - who offers absolutely nothing as a player, neither with bat, nor ball; may be English is his only qualification. And, that leggi was a joke - bowling fastish sliders as they were telling leg spin (and, he was batting at 9 among 11 semi tail-enders - so, not sure, how he made the squad).

Zulfiquar should have retired by 2015, there are several younger options available - even if not ready made available, one has to develop solutions from U25 bunch, rather than going back to a 40+ obsolete cricketer. And, if PAK has to depend on Zulfi Babar at this age as their premier finger spinner, then the future doesn't look that bright I am afraid.

 

[hadi123]

why not? bad form? injury? what happened?

I don't know tbh but I think his Pakistan days are over anyway.

 

[barah_admi]

Nawaz or Imad doesn't serve the purpose in a game where batsmen are not forced to go for a mad rush. Here, I am taking about spinners who can entice batsmen with flight & loop and get them out penetrating defense with spin and variation. I give this example many times - AUS chased 260+ at WACA, in 46 overs with 7 wickets at hand, from 50/2 or so from 15 overs, by milking MoHa & Imad for 5/6 singles every over (Can't recall ever the asking went above 6) - put couple of genuine spinners and a Captain better than Azhar Ali, Aussies won't have chased that target, or it would have taken a special effort from Smith, that too may be by last over and last pair.

The job that Imad or Nawaz doing in ODI, Haris actually can do as well if he is fit enough - BUT, the job Kuldeep or Chahal doing on a belter, these darters won't do even on turners. This "Dart syndrome" is killing PAK cricket in every scope - even in U19 WC, Captain Hasan is probably the most colorless Captains among last 8 teams - who offers absolutely nothing as a player, neither with bat, nor ball; may be English is his only qualification. And, that leggi was a joke - bowling fastish sliders as they were telling leg spin (and, he was batting at 9 among 11 semi tail-enders - so, not sure, how he made the squad).

Zulfiquar should have retired by 2015, there are several younger options available - even if not ready made available, one has to develop solutions from U25 bunch, rather than going back to a 40+ obsolete cricketer. And, if PAK has to depend on Zulfi Babar at this age as their premier finger spinner, then the future doesn't look that bright I am afraid.

You made the point that Imad and Nawaz shouldnt be in the limited overs side either, but Imad has been one of the best players in the format.

 

[barah_admi]

I don't know tbh but I think his Pakistan days are over anyway.

That is sad to see, because he was a very good spinner and could have continued as a second spinner. Hope Pakistan find someone to back Yasir, maybe giving one of the ODI spinners a go.

 

[MMHS]

You made the point that Imad and Nawaz shouldnt be in the limited overs side either, but Imad has been one of the best players in the format.

No, I said ODI, not LO.

Imad is an accurate darter who’ll always do well when batsmen are going (has to go) after him. He is among top T20 bowlers and rightly so - I infact is among few who endorsed him for T20 Captain, because he makes the XI on merit. For ODI, if you notice often he doesn’t bowl his full quota - that’s first qualifier for a genuine spinner, that he should be used full between 16-44th over.

Nawaz isn’t useful even in T20s either - PAK played lots of T20 in n UAE & WI on sluggish wickets, which might have created misleading stats for him; but his reality check was in NZ - one over for 14.

 

[Mueez]

Shadab will be the next spinner but still feel for Asghar as he has been part of the squad for almost 1 year and hasn't played yet.

 

[hadi123]

That is sad to see, because he was a very good spinner and could have continued as a second spinner. Hope Pakistan find someone to back Yasir, maybe giving one of the ODI spinners a go.

I disagree with you there. He is too old and wasn't doing much until he got rightly dropped.

 

[Justcrazy]

I think in UAE, Azhar can open and 1 opener can make way for Shadab. Play a genuine spinner in addition to Yasir along with two fast bowlers

If batting needs more cover have Faheem has 2nd fast bowler. Fast bowlers are just needed with new ball in UAE

If you go for all out spin attack . Then they need to prepare turners , and play two specialist spinner and one part time spinner , with one specialist fast bowler and one seam bowling all rounder