Pakistan-born astrophysicist Dr. Nergis Mavalvala named dean of MIT School of Science [#43]

[uberkoen]

You are pretending that it was the freedom to express her sexuality which was the reason she could do well in academics, and pakistan must allow all these lgbtq-whatever the freedom to publicly express their sexuality so that they can excel in various fields.

of course, these deviant people should not be treated as criminals, but their sexuality should not be glorified or normalized as it attacks the traditional institution of marriage and the male woman relationship upon which our society is based.

I never stated that. Not sure where you're getting it from. I only stated that had she been in Pakistan and had she openly expressed her sexuality like she has done in the US she would have gotten no where.

Please read the post before you comment on it.

Also, homosexuality is just as natural as heterosexuality. Society needs to understand this concept and move past this nonsensical notion.

 

[uberkoen]

This is demonstrable nonsense. She must have excelled academically to earn a move to America in the first place. You seem to forget she grew up in Pakistan and studied there to the age of 18. In fact you could even argue that her lack of realisation of her sexual preferences may well have aided her academic career since she was unlikely to get sidetracked by any interest in boys.

Now I am not one of those going gaga over her success since I have no connection to her, hence I am fairly indifferent. But if Pakistanis want to take pride in her achievements then it is up to them, don't see who you are to tell them who they can applaud and who they can't.

Would she have managed to head lets say a government institute in Pakistan had she openly declared her sexuality? We didn't let people like Atif Mian sit on the council because of his religion you think we would allow her to head institutes because of her sexuality?

The whole point I'm making is that she would not have been able to head anything in Pakistan due to her sexuality and that is a fact.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I never stated that. Not sure where you're getting it from. I only stated that had she been in Pakistan and had she openly expressed her sexuality like she has done in the US she would have gotten no where.

Please read the post before you comment on it.

Also, homosexuality is just as natural as heterosexuality. Society needs to understand this concept and move past this nonsensical notion.

You are still stating it, that had she expressed her sexuality in pakistan she wouldn't have reached where she reached in US. It is irrelevant. Even if she was straight and normal, she wouldn't have reached the same place in pakistan what she did in US. You are misleading the argument and trying to make it a gay/lesbo thing, when the issue is that pakistan doesn't provide the same freedom and encouragement to its academics, the kind that is provided in western nations. You should be talking about that, but you are wasting time on the irrelevant part - her sexuality and how pakistani society treats these abnormal sexualities.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

Read your post again and then read what I wrote and you will understand why I mentioned hypocrisy.

We can be proud of a Parsi Lesbian's achievements in the US. What would happen to her if she was openly a Parsi Lesbian in Pakistan?

What happened to Dr. Abdus Salam? What happened to Atif Mian? Were they supposed to keep their religion a secret as well?

We live in a country with regressive laws and backward mentality and we are hypocrites of the highest order. Instead of moving forward and calling for these laws to be changed and calling out what is wrong in this country you're saying people should keep their religion and their sexuality a secret. Slow clap for you my friend.

You have no regard for religion, fine but don't go around preaching and calling us hypocrites.

Not a single Muslim here cursed her or asked for her to be punished for her sexuality (even though we all know homosexuals are to be punished according to Islamic laws). We all appreciated her for her achievements yet here you are calling us hypocrites and derailing this thread to malign Islam's stance on homosexuality.

Why are you so bothered on highlighting her sexuality and irked when Pakistanis are proud of her achievements DESPITE her sexuality? Just because she identifies as a lesbian doesn't mean the whole nation has to agree with homosexuality. We can appreciate her for her achievements rather than making her sexuality a stupid reason to change Pakistan's laws.

Go preach about homosexuality to "progressive" liberals. Your childish rants won't work here.

 

[uberkoen]

You have no regard for religion, fine but don't go around preaching and calling us hypocrites.

Not a single Muslim here cursed her or asked for her to be punished for her sexuality (even though we all know homosexuals are to be punished according to Islamic laws). We all appreciated her for her achievements yet here you are calling us hypocrites and derailing this thread to malign Islam's stance on homosexuality.

Why are you so bothered on highlighting her sexuality and irked when Pakistanis are proud of her achievements DESPITE her sexuality? Just because she identifies as a lesbian doesn't mean the whole nation has to agree with homosexuality. We can appreciate her for her achievements rather than making her sexuality a stupid reason to change Pakistan's laws.

Go preach about homosexuality to "progressive" liberals. Your childish rants won't work here.

I'm sorry I will call a spade a spade. Pakistani's celebrating her achievements are hypocrites because of the fact that they would not have allowed her to achieve the same in Pakistan considering she is openly a Lesbian. She would be treated similar to how Atif Mian was treated recently.

Also, it seems as though you have comprehension issues as I have not discussed or mentioned Islam even a single time in any of my posts.

Also your last paragraph is the epitome of hypocrisy. Would she have been appointed as head of a government institute had she been openly lesbian in Pakistan? Yes or no? If no then it is hypocritical of Pakistani's to celebrate this because they don't give her the same rights in their own country.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

I'm sorry I will call a spade a spade. Pakistani's celebrating her achievements are hypocrites because of the fact that they would not have allowed her to achieve the same in Pakistan considering she is openly a Lesbian. She would be treated similar to how Atif Mian was treated recently.

Also, it seems as though you have comprehension issues as I have not discussed or mentioned Islam even a single time in any of my posts.

Also your last paragraph is the epitome of hypocrisy. Would she have been appointed as head of a government institute had she been openly lesbian in Pakistan? Yes or no? If no then it is hypocritical of Pakistani's to celebrate this because they don't give her the same rights in their own country.

The irony.

Haven't you realised Islam is the reason we don't support homosexuality?

Unlike you, our religion dictates our principles and morals.
You calling us hypocrites will not change that. Neither will it change Dr. Nergis' achievements.

Don't be such a troll and let people understand and appreciate her achievements.
You never know, it might actually inspire someone to do great things.
Your pathetic rants are distracting and derailing this thread.

 

[uberkoen]

The irony.

Haven't you realised Islam is the reason we don't support homosexuality?

Unlike you, our religion dictates our principles and morals.
You calling us hypocrites will not change that. Neither will it change Dr. Nergis' achievements.

Don't be such a troll and let people understand and appreciate her achievements.
You never know, it might actually inspire someone to do great things.
Your pathetic rants are distracting and derailing this thread.

I see you're completely ignoring my question. Is that because you know I'm right and you don't really have a foot to stand on?

Not sure why you're bringing religion in this discussion. I'm not even talking about religion yet you keep shoving it down my throat and bringing it up in all of your posts. Keep your religion and beliefs to yourself please don't push it onto everyone. This has nothing to do with religion and more to do with the question I asked earlier which you ignored and are continuing to ignore.

Simply answer yes or no would an openly lesbian or gay person be allowed to head a government institute in Pakistan?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Would she have managed to head lets say a government institute in Pakistan had she openly declared her sexuality? We didn't let people like Atif Mian sit on the council because of his religion you think we would allow her to head institutes because of her sexuality?

The whole point I'm making is that she would not have been able to head anything in Pakistan due to her sexuality and that is a fact.

Did anyone say that Pakistan would allow a lesbian to become head of state? This is like saying do you think the USA would appoint a Hindu yogi as the President of the USA. You are almost as bad as the Taliban where you think everyone in the world must all share the same ideology and viewpoint.

Not only that but you are accusing other people on this thread of hypocrisy, while being a grade A hypocrite yourself. Weren't you the one berating the Indian Muslim for not shouting Jai Shri Ram under demand from organised hindu mobs? Then surely Nergis could have risen to be PM of Pakistan by keeping her sexuality private?

 

[uberkoen]

Did anyone say that Pakistan would allow a lesbian to become head of state? This is like saying do you think the USA would appoint a Hindu yogi as the President of the USA. You are almost as bad as the Taliban where you think everyone in the world must all share the same ideology and viewpoint.

Not only that but you are accusing other people on this thread of hypocrisy, while being a grade A hypocrite yourself. Weren't you the one berating the Indian Muslim for not shouting Jai Shri Ram under demand from organised hindu mobs? Then surely Nergis could have risen to be PM of Pakistan by keeping her sexuality private?

The mere fact that we are sitting in Pakistan and celebrating a lesbian's achievements whereas she would not be allowed to reach the same heights in her own country is hypocritical. Not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.

I'm not saying anyone should share my ideology or viewpoint. I'm saying our laws are so regressive that someone so brilliant and distinguished would not have been able to serve the country just because of her sexuality similar to how Atif Mian was not allowed to serve his country due to his religion and these are facts.

Also, on your last point. Islam allows Taqiya. I asked a question as to why it wasn't practiced in India considering so many companions practiced it back in the Prophet's time to save their lives. That is however a completely different discussion and there is no need for you to derail this thread because of you inability to comprehend a simple concept.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The mere fact that we are sitting in Pakistan and celebrating a lesbian's achievements whereas she would not be allowed to reach the same heights in her own country is hypocritical. Not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.

I'm not saying anyone should share my ideology or viewpoint. I'm saying our laws are so regressive that someone so brilliant and distinguished would not have been able to serve the country just because of her sexuality similar to how Atif Mian was not allowed to serve his country due to his religion and these are facts.

Also, on your last point. Islam allows Taqiya. I asked a question as to why it wasn't practiced in India considering so many companions practiced it back in the Prophet's time to save their lives. That is however a completely different discussion and there is no need for you to derail this thread because of you inability to comprehend a simple concept.

When you say " we are sitting in Pakistan and celebrating a lesbian's achievements", who are you referring to exactly? I'm not sitting in Pakistan, and somehow I don't think you are either?

For those celebrating that are sitting in Pakistan, how do you know they aren't lesbians as well? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about the whole population which in itself shows ignorance and bigotry.

Not surprised either that when you are called out for your hypocrisy about asking for Muslims to vocally support hindu militants in India, you now try to deflect my question why Nergis couldn't do the same for Muslim militants in Pakistan.

 

[uberkoen]

When you say " we are sitting in Pakistan and celebrating a lesbian's achievements", who are you referring to exactly? I'm not sitting in Pakistan, and somehow I don't think you are either?

For those celebrating that are sitting in Pakistan, how do you know they aren't lesbians as well? You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about the whole population which in itself shows ignorance and bigotry.

Not surprised either that when you are called out for your hypocrisy about asking for Muslims to vocally support hindu militants in India, you now try to deflect my question why Nergis couldn't do the same for Muslim militants in Pakistan, you now try to deflect and claim it is derailing.

So you agree that she could not get any governmental position in Pakistan without having to lie about her sexuality and if she did decide to not lie about it she would probably end up in jail or thrown out of the country. Which is exactly what I'm saying. Glad we could agree.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Why do you think she would not have reached her full potential when there are some amazing scientists in Pakistan? Just naming female ones who have achieved a lot in their respective fields Dr. Azra Qureshi, Dr. Tasneem Zehra Husain, Dr. Asifa Akhtar and Dr. Mariam Sultana come to mind.

Why do you think these names ( never heard of them, may be locally world famous, like we have many world famous scientists in india who are world famous only in india), became successful because of the pakistani system and not in spite of it? Why so few if the pakistani system was so great?

 

[uberkoen]

Why do you think these names ( never heard of them, may be locally world famous, like we have many world famous scientists in india who are world famous only in india), became successful because of the pakistani system and not in spite of it? Why so few if the pakistani system was so great?

I mentioned the ones that I knew of. You want me to list down all the women scientists from Pakistan? The point you were trying to make is incorrect and has been proved as such so you can please take your trolling elsewhere because now you're not making any sense.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So you agree that she could not get any governmental position in Pakistan without having to lie about her sexuality and if she did decide to not lie about it she would probably end up in jail or thrown out of the country. Which is exactly what I'm saying. Glad we could agree.

Well duh.

Pakistan is an Islamic country, why would they elect a lesbian in a governmental position? Again...would the US public elect a Hindu swami as President of the USA?

 

[uberkoen]

Well duh.

Pakistan is an Islamic country, why would they elect a lesbian in a governmental position? Again...would the US public elect a Hindu swami as President of the USA?

Why not? There are no laws in the US that stop a Hindu Swami from running for President of the US. Again, my point exactly. We have regressive laws that stop people like Atif Mian and Dr. Nergis from getting into such positions which they then end up getting outside of Pakistan and then once these guys achieve something in some other country we celebrate it.

Instead of calling for repealing such regressive laws and allowing people like them to flourish in Pakistan and help the country we sit back and clap at their achievements in other countries.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why not? There are no laws in the US that stop a Hindu Swami from running for President of the US. Again, my point exactly. We have regressive laws that stop people like Atif Mian and Dr. Nergis from getting into such positions which they then end up getting outside of Pakistan and then once these guys achieve something in some other country we celebrate it.

Instead of calling for repealing such regressive laws and allowing people like them to flourish in Pakistan and help the country we sit back and clap at their achievements in other countries.

But that wasn't your point exactly, your main thrust was to criticise Pakistanis for applauding Nergis and accusing them of hypocrisy without knowing those Pakistanis own philosophies on individual basis. As I pointed out, for all you know, those Pakistanis themselves may well be homosexuals, how would you know?

If you wanted to criticise Pakistani laws, then that is what you should have stuck to. It would be a far clearer matter then to justify your position from there.

 

[uberkoen]

But that wasn't your point exactly, your main thrust was to criticise Pakistanis for applauding Nergis and accusing them of hypocrisy without knowing those Pakistanis own philosophies on individual basis. As I pointed out, for all you know, those Pakistanis themselves may well be homosexuals, how would you know?

If you wanted to criticise Pakistani laws, then that is what you should have stuck to. It would be a far clearer matter then to justify your position from there.

It is hypocritical of Pakistani's to celebrate the achievements of a woman who is openly Lesbian whereas the same people would rile her if she was openly lesbian in Pakistan and the same people would not want her to take any important government post basically due to her sexuality.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It is hypocritical of Pakistani's to celebrate the achievements of a woman who is openly Lesbian whereas the same people would rile her if she was openly lesbian in Pakistan and the same people would not want her to take any important government post basically due to her sexuality.

How do you know that the Pakistanis who are celebrating her achievements aren't lesbians themselves? Have you checked each and every one's profile?

 

[uberkoen]

How do you know that the Pakistanis who are celebrating her achievements aren't lesbians themselves? Have you checked each and every one's profile?

You're being pedantic. I think its clear what I might. I'm talking about the general public like the ones who wanted Atif Mian to be removed from the Economic Council or the ones who don't want Dr. Abdus Salam associated with Pakistan.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You're being pedantic. I think its clear what I might. I'm talking about the general public like the ones who wanted Atif Mian to be removed from the Economic Council or the ones who don't want Dr. Abdus Salam associated with Pakistan.

The general Pakistani public are probably not celebrating her achievements anyway. Why would they when she left at the age of 18? Most of them probably aren't even aware she exists let alone that she is a lesbian.

 

[PakLFC]

Being raised in a country and being part of the culture of that country is natural. If you speak with a local dialect instead of a Pakistani accent, and wear jeans instead of shalwar kameez, that is not being a coconut, it is just being a product of your upbringing. Same as a freshy who speaks with a thick accent and still probably drinks doodpati at home is still reflecting his upbringing.

It is also natural to love the country of your ancestors which is why you are on this website. If you are a whiter then white American or Brit then I suggest you go and mingle with them instead of wasting time on this website. Damn right it is natural for her to love the country where she was born which is why she is Pakistani living in America. I don't know what the rest of your mail is on about! She is a Pakistani living in America, even the likes of British born Aamir Khan celebrate their Pakistani background. You just seemed ashamed of your background for some reason. A person born in Pakistan is Pakistani where as a person born elsewhere from Pakistani parents is off Pakistani ethnicity. It is plain simple common sense that you seem to lack.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

I see you're completely ignoring my question. Is that because you know I'm right and you don't really have a foot to stand on?

Not sure why you're bringing religion in this discussion. I'm not even talking about religion yet you keep shoving it down my throat and bringing it up in all of your posts. Keep your religion and beliefs to yourself please don't push it onto everyone. This has nothing to do with religion and more to do with the question I asked earlier which you ignored and are continuing to ignore.

Simply answer yes or no would an openly lesbian or gay person be allowed to head a government institute in Pakistan?

What a narcissist lol.

Fine, I'll play along.
No, an openly lesbian/gay person wouldn't be allowed to head a government institute in Pakistan. The reason for that is because we have laws criminalising gay relations which are based on Islam. Hopefully now you've got your thick skull around why I keep bringing up religion.

I'm afraid I can't keep my religion and my beliefs to myself because I'm a citizen of the ISLAMIC Republic of Pakistan whose constitution is derived from Shariah laws. The same laws which you call stupid and backward. I have every right to defend them.

 

[uberkoen]

What a narcissist lol.

Fine, I'll play along.
No, an openly lesbian/gay person wouldn't be allowed to head a government institute in Pakistan. The reason for that is because we have laws criminalising gay relations which are based on Islam. Hopefully now you've got your thick skull around why I keep bringing up religion.

I'm afraid I can't keep my religion and my beliefs to myself because I'm a citizen of the ISLAMIC Republic of Pakistan whose constitution is derived from Shariah laws. The same laws which you call stupid and backward. I have every right to defend them.

So if you believe that she is an infidel and one who has disobeyed the command of Allah how can you be proud of her? Do you think she represents Pakistan which is Islamic and forbids homosexuality yet here is a homosexual person that Pakistani's are proud of for representing Pakistan.

 

[CricketCartoons]

So if you believe that she is an infidel and one who has disobeyed the command of Allah how can you be proud of her? Do you think she represents Pakistan which is Islamic and forbids homosexuality yet here is a homosexual person that Pakistani's are proud of for representing Pakistan.

Maybe it is a new concept for you, but it is possible to dislike some traits of a person and be proud of other things. Don't know why you are pushing this extremely narrow minded view that one must dislike everything about the person if one dislikes one single thing.

 

[uberkoen]

Maybe it is a new concept for you, but it is possible to dislike some traits of a person and be proud of other things. Don't know why you are pushing this extremely narrow minded view that one must dislike everything about the person if one dislikes one single thing.

If Islam forbids homosexuality would Muslims still celebrate a homosexual person? That's the question. It's not for you. You're not a muslim or a Pakistani.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

So if you believe that she is an infidel and one who has disobeyed the command of Allah how can you be proud of her? Do you think she represents Pakistan which is Islamic and forbids homosexuality yet here is a homosexual person that Pakistani's are proud of for representing Pakistan.

Because I'm not an intolerant troll who looks past a person's achievements and attacks their faith. Also what does being a Pakistani have to do with one's faith and beliefs? What part of Pakistani citizenship says you can't follow your own religion and beliefs?

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

If Islam forbids homosexuality would Muslims still celebrate a homosexual person? That's the question. It's not for you. You're not a muslim or a Pakistani. Go troll somewhere else

If you think that's what Islam is then you don't know Islam or religion.

"There is no compulsion in religion" Quran 2:256

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It is also natural to love the country of your ancestors which is why you are on this website. If you are a whiter then white American or Brit then I suggest you go and mingle with them instead of wasting time on this website. Damn right it is natural for her to love the country where she was born which is why she is Pakistani living in America. I don't know what the rest of your mail is on about! She is a Pakistani living in America, even the likes of British born Aamir Khan celebrate their Pakistani background. You just seemed ashamed of your background for some reason. A person born in Pakistan is Pakistani where as a person born elsewhere from Pakistani parents is off Pakistani ethnicity. It is plain simple common sense that you seem to lack.

It is not natural to love the country of your ancestors, although you may love some aspects of it and dislike others, but same can be said of country of residence. This is why it is perfectly easy for me to mingle with freshies from Pakistan ( I speak the lingo pretty good) and also mingle with whiter than white Brits.

In fact I am probably more like your Nergis than you are (apart from the lesbian part). She seems quite at ease with both parts of her life, unlike many on here who seem to be using her success for point scoring against Pakistani society. All I have done is given her credit for both what she achieved in Pakistan and what she went on to do in USA.

 

[uberkoen]

Because I'm not an intolerant troll who looks past a person's achievements and attacks their faith. Also what does being a Pakistani have to do with one's faith and beliefs? What part of Pakistani citizenship says you can't follow your own religion and beliefs?

You're the one who brought religion in the discussion by saying the following

I'm afraid I can't keep my religion and my beliefs to myself because I'm a citizen of the ISLAMIC Republic of Pakistan whose constitution is derived from Shariah laws.

So apparently both are interlinked apparently from your perspective. Nonetheless will Pakistani's (like yourself for example) accept homosexuals representing their country considering it goes against the constitution of the country and against the faith. If one can accept a homosexual's achievement and be proud of it why can't we let them live the same life here? Why can't we celebrate homosexuals (openly homosexuals) within Pakistan? Why can't we do away with regressive laws?

 

[uberkoen]

If you think that's what Islam is then you don't know Islam or religion.

"There is no compulsion in religion" Quran 2:256

You're saying Islam doesn't forbid homosexuality?

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

You're saying Islam doesn't forbid homosexuality?

I'm saying it forbids homosexuality but doesn't forbid appreciating a homosexual for their achievements. The verse was quoted to imply the extent of tolerance in Islam.

 

[uberkoen]

I'm saying it forbids homosexuality but doesn't forbid appreciating a homosexual for their achievements. The verse was quoted to imply the extent of tolerance in Islam.

Isn't that hypocritical? It's like yeah we'd put you in jail if you ever came to our land due to your sexuality but good job representing us in a country that doesn't have these regressive laws!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Isn't that hypocritical? It's like yeah we'd put you in jail if you ever came to our land due to your sexuality but good job representing us in a country that doesn't have these regressive laws!

Is she representing Pakistan in the USA? I thought she was just a bright Pakistani student who won a place to study in America?

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

You're the one who brought religion in the discussion by saying the following

I'm afraid I can't keep my religion and my beliefs to myself because I'm a citizen of the ISLAMIC Republic of Pakistan whose constitution is derived from Shariah laws.

So apparently both are interlinked apparently from your perspective. Nonetheless will Pakistani's (like yourself for example) accept homosexuals representing their country considering it goes against the constitution of the country and against the faith. If one can accept a homosexual's achievement and be proud of it why can't we let them live the same life here? Why can't we celebrate homosexuals (openly homosexuals) within Pakistan? Why can't we do away with regressive laws?

This is getting ridiculous. Posters are here to read about her achievements. They aren't here to discuss her homosexuality and they're definitely not her to see you use her to defame Shariah-based laws in Pakistan. Stop wasting everyone's time.

We're done.

 

[uberkoen]

Is she representing Pakistan in the USA? I thought she was just a bright Pakistani student who won a place to study in America?

She's an American citizen by the way. She is of Pakistani origin not a Pakistani citizen. When people keep referring to her as "Pakistani" that means that people consider her to represent Pakistan and hence the question.

 

[uberkoen]

This is getting ridiculous. Posters are here to read about her achievements. They aren't here to discuss her homosexuality and they're definitely not her to see you use her to defame Shariah-based laws in Pakistan. Stop wasting everyone's time.

We're done.

Obviously. I knew you'd walk away because you don't have the answers.

Continue being hypocritical

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

She's an American citizen by the way. She is of Pakistani origin not a Pakistani citizen. When people keep referring to her as "Pakistani" that means that people consider her to represent Pakistan and hence the question.

You don't need to tell me she's an American citizen, I pointed that out in my first post.

 

[Syed1]

She's an American citizen by the way. She is of Pakistani origin not a Pakistani citizen. When people keep referring to her as "Pakistani" that means that people consider her to represent Pakistan and hence the question.

Didn't want to derail this thread but since you have successfully derailed it through your agenda driven posts. I'll address this point of yours.


You are a Pakistani citizen if you are born in Pakistan. Period.


She was born in Lahore and grew up in Karachi till the age of 18. If she is not Pakistani then Sundar Pichai and Satya Nadela aren't Indian.

 

[uberkoen]

Didn't want to derail this thread but since you have successfully derailed it through your agenda driven posts. I'll address this point of yours.


You are a Pakistani citizen if you are born in Pakistan. Period.


She was born in Lahore and grew up in Karachi till the age of 18. If she is not Pakistani then Sundar Pichai and Satya Nadela aren't Indian.

What if you were born in Lahore and decided to give up your Pakistani passport? Would you still be a Pakistani citizen? Would I not need a visa to enter the country?

 

[PakLFC]

It is not natural to love the country of your ancestors, although you may love some aspects of it and dislike others, but same can be said of country of residence. This is why it is perfectly easy for me to mingle with freshies from Pakistan ( I speak the lingo pretty good) and also mingle with whiter than white Brits.

In fact I am probably more like your Nergis than you are (apart from the lesbian part). She seems quite at ease with both parts of her life, unlike many on here who seem to be using her success for point scoring against Pakistani society. All I have done is given her credit for both what she achieved in Pakistan and what she went on to do in USA.

It is natural to at least claim your background when it is a fact. Never mind the mingling thing when being a socialist I am comfortable with most people yet will never deny my background even if I dislike certain things about it.

Let us get back to the point of you saying she is not Pakistani but American. I totally reject this out of hand when she was born in Pakistan. What you said initially is the she is not Pakistani, that is the problem I have with what you are saying.

 

[Syed1]

What if you were born in Lahore and decided to give up your Pakistani passport? Would you still be a Pakistani citizen? Would I not need a visa to enter the country?

Sir a passport is just a travel document. Many people live out their whole lives and never make a passport. Does that mean they were stateless?


And no even if I travel on a foreign passport but have Pakistani NIC, NICOP or Origin Card I will not need a visa to enter the country.

 

[uberkoen]

Sir a passport is just a travel document. Many people live out their whole lives and never make a passport. Does that mean they were stateless?


And no even if I travel on a foreign passport but have Pakistani NIC, NICOP or Origin Card I will not need a visa to enter the country.

Thanks for the info didn’t know that

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

The mere fact that we are sitting in Pakistan and celebrating a lesbian's achievements whereas she would not be allowed to reach the same heights in her own country is hypocritical. Not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.

Not really. Its a first sign of acceptance, that people are overlooking her sexuality and still celebrating her achievements.

I'm not saying anyone should share my ideology or viewpoint. I'm saying our laws are so regressive that someone so brilliant and distinguished would not have been able to serve the country just because of her sexuality similar to how Atif Mian was not allowed to serve his country due to his religion and these are facts.

I probably share your viewpoints, however those countries that have progressive laws did not get there overnight. It took generations to go from decriminalizing to having pride celebrations.


So in regards to Pakistan, the onus on change is with Liberal/Cultural Muslims. However this will take generations, so you need realistic expectations on what is possible now. And change will be done using Muslim history and culture. Such as Sufis.

 

[Poseidon]

I think Pakistani Scientist in PAEC have done some invention at CERN lab in 2019, you have shared that news here in pp. do you have that news link ? will u plz like to share it here.
[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]