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Pakistan bowling : 1992 World Cup vs 2017 Champions Trophy

The Googly

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In the 1992 World Cup Final, our bowling attack was :

Wasim Akram
Imran Khan (off short run-up)
Aqib Javed
Mushy
Ejaz Ahmed
Aamer Sohail


2017 CT :

Amir
Junaid
Hassan
Shadab
Imad
Hafeez


Differences :

1. In 1992, we relied on a genius - an all time great - Wasim.

2. However - 20 overs needed to be bowled from an injured Imran, Ejaz and Sohail. Imran was injured before the world cup and bowled slow medium pace - not even a shadow of his normal self. Ejaz was a pie thrower. Aamer was a left arm spinner but not as good as Hafeez as a bowler.


So - which attack was better?? As a unit, the 2017 attack shades it. Remember, Waqar was injured in 1992. Otherwise, it would have been no contest. As with Amir in 2017, Wasim won the world cup with one magnificent spell.
 
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if u balance it and go with the form of pakistani bowlers.then it id definitely 2017 CT>...in 1992 we had all time great wasim,decent aqib and world class mushi nothing else but 2017 had no weak link at that time the bowlers were on the peak of their form...
 
Pakistan got away with 20 overs from part-timers in 1992.

Odi cricket has changed - you could not rely on such bowlers today.
 
Waqar tried the same technique in 2015 WC and that backfired big time. Remember when he tried to use Harris Sohail like Amir Sohail?
 
In the 1992 World Cup Final, Aamer was a left arm spinner but not as good as Hafeez as a bowler.


So - which attack was better?? As a unit, the 2017 attack shades it. Remember, Waqar was injured in 1992. Otherwise, it would have been no contest. As with Amir in 2017, Wasim won the world cup with one magnificent spell.

aamir was a better spinner hafeez only useful when Left Hander COMES on and ev en then good players like yuvraj smoked him
 
aamir was a better spinner hafeez only useful when Left Hander COMES on and ev en then good players like yuvraj smoked him

hafeez is a very very easy bowler for right handers very easy to milk and hit out
 
wasim vs amir = wasim
imran (92 version) vs hasan = hasan
aqib vs junaid = junaid
mushy vs shadab = mushy
ijaz vs imad = imad
amir sohail vs hafeez = hafeez

the 2017 ct bowling attack was clearly better.
 
wasim vs amir = wasim
imran (92 version) vs hasan = hasan
aqib vs junaid = junaid
mushy vs shadab = mushy
ijaz vs imad = imad
amir sohail vs hafeez = hafeez

the 2017 ct bowling attack was clearly better.

What you cannot legislate for in any comparison is how good Wasim was. Amir is a very good bowler. A world class bowler. Wasim was a TRULY GREAT bowler. In the top 5 all time great bowlers.

Mushy was magnificent in the world cup final also. Clearly better then Shadab.

In all other aspects, 2017 attack is ahead.

However, none of the 2017 batters would make the 1992 side!
 
What you cannot legislate for in any comparison is how good Wasim was. Amir is a very good bowler. A world class bowler. Wasim was a TRULY GREAT bowler. In the top 5 all time great bowlers.

Mushy was magnificent in the world cup final also. Clearly better then Shadab.

In all other aspects, 2017 attack is ahead.

However, none of the 2017 batters would make the 1992 side!

Wait....What ????

We had Rameez Raja and Amir Sohail opening in that Final FGS :facepalm: I am 100% certain I would take Azhar and Babar (at least) of these two every freaking time.

The former pair also graced us with mighty individual scores, in the final, of 8 and 4 respectively. Also adding to that both these batsmen were probably the biggest bottlers in that 90s team.....No Thank You Very Much !!
 
Pakistan didnt just win the world cup final off the bowling of Wasim Akram. Aquib javed was more then a decent seam bowler and yet the OP doesnt even mention the influence of Mushy as a bowler either :facepalm:
 
Pakistan didnt just win the world cup final off the bowling of Wasim Akram. Aquib javed was more then a decent seam bowler and yet the OP doesnt even mention the influence of Mushy as a bowler either :facepalm:


Yaar - I mentioned in post 11 what a magnificent game Mushy had in the final. He bowled splendidly throughout.

But point taken - let me stress - Mushy was a world class leg spinner and then we had an all time great Wasim.

Aqib was also a good bowler and had a top tournament. The thing is 20 overs were being delivered by injured/part time bowlers.
 
Wait....What ????

We had Rameez Raja and Amir Sohail opening in that Final FGS :facepalm: I am 100% certain I would take Azhar and Babar (at least) of these two every freaking time.

The former pair also graced us with mighty individual scores, in the final, of 8 and 4 respectively. Also adding to that both these batsmen were probably the biggest bottlers in that 90s team.....No Thank You Very Much !!

Amir and Rameez were not that bad?

Overall - Azhar is certainly better then either of these. But in ODIs, Rameez and Aamer v Azhar and Fakhar is not that cut and dried. Agreed - you could make a case for Azhar and Fakhar. But its 50-50.
 
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] u can say....i will take it..

2 different generation, different context - therefore direct comparison is unfair. Also, two attacks actually suited both conditions (i. e. that attack in 1992 in AUS & this one in 2017 in UK) better than say opposite. But, personally I'll take 1992 attack, because of 3 genuine wicket takers - Aquib was fantastic with new ball (If I can recall correctly, he took at least one wicket in his 1st spell after the WI match, can't recall an opening partnership over 25 against PAK thereafter, mostly for AJ), while Mushi was easily the best spinner around. The 3rd one of that attack is the best ever LO fast bowler, and he was at his menacing best.

That team had all 3 bowlers in Official Tournament XI, and it was a fantastic balanced attack with almost every type of options available to Captain (& a Captain, who knew how to use bowlers). Cricket is not a game like Football or Basketball that you can double team a CR, Messi or Durant - it's one on one between a batsman & bowler - those 30 overs won a WC. This is one reason that cricket teams can't be compared by player to player comparison, because the strength of the teams are not only the sum of individuals or stats (even from same era) - you can never measure the impact of those 10 overs of Akram, neither the intensity of any bowling attack under different Captains like Azhar, Sarfraz or Imran can be measured.

If I am to make a combined team, probably it'll end very balanced distribution -

1. Raja - His stats (35/65) till '92 final was world class, for the then cricket - it's higher in SR than Gordon Grineedge or Desi Haynes or Graham Gooch, and higher in average by some margin than Allen Border or Harry De Silva at that point of time. We are comparing Azhar's current stats of 38/75 with Raja, when the best are like 50/90 - you never know what Azhar would have done, when 30/60 stats were considered very good for openers & Graham Gooch had stats like 38/60 around at that time. Besides, Raja was in fantastic form in that tournament.
2. Fakhar - It's close between Fakhar & Sohail - Sohail also had a good tournament - won the MoM in the must win game against host AUS. Besides, he was a critical part of the bowling combination (Fakhar can bowl, but he is not part of a 5 men bowling strategy). But, this combined team doesn't need bowling back-up & Fakhar's contribution in KO matches were better.
3. Babar - Imran was a desperate measures at 3, to his credit he served the purpose (& almost bolted in SF)
4. Javed
5. Imran
6. Inzi
7. Sarfraz - Moin was probably similar in terms of Keeping, or may be a little bit inferior, but Sarfraz is a better bat, Moin was more impactful bat - I pick the better WK
8. Wasim
9. Mushi
10. Hasan
11. Amir - Ideally, Amir should miss out, because Aquib made the WC XI, which Amir failed. That tournament, Aquib was exceptional throughout - he also took 3 wickets in Final & good 3 wickets - Stuart, Fairbrother & forgot the 3rd one. But, Amir is by far better bowler, better batsman and he was instrumental in 2 of the 3 must win games that he played. Aquib or Sohail comes as the 12th man.

So, it's 6/5 to team 1992 or 7/5, with a back up. This makes the team of 1992 far better in 2 aspects -

a. Though starting XI is 6/5, but 1992 team had few truly remarkable match winners in Wasim, Javed, Imran & Inzi. Team 2017, may be had only one in Amir, or for this tournament 2 more young potentials. ABOVE ALL - they had 3 distinctive leaders for such ICC events - Wasim for bowling, Javed for batting and Imran while on field. 2017 team only partially had a bowling leader, and a decent field marshal, with Mohammad Hafeez or Azhar Ali while batting.

b. In a 15 men squad, next 3 spots actually will go to players from 1992 - Amir, Aquib & Moin. May be MoHa will come as 15th player, because of his off spin - which means, in a longer tournament, that 1992 team will do better. They actually did that, by gradually raising their game in later games & that longer format gave that team time to regroup.

You asked for bowling - 3 of the 5 bowlers are from 1992, with the prime spinner and # 1, 3, 5 in order of merit. Add to that the respective men in charge of marshaling those 2 separate attacks - it's actually not even an one sided contest.
 
2 different generation, different context - therefore direct comparison is unfair. Also, two attacks actually suited both conditions (i. e. that attack in 1992 in AUS & this one in 2017 in UK) better than say opposite. But, personally I'll take 1992 attack, because of 3 genuine wicket takers - Aquib was fantastic with new ball (If I can recall correctly, he took at least one wicket in his 1st spell after the WI match, can't recall an opening partnership over 25 against PAK thereafter, mostly for AJ), while Mushi was easily the best spinner around. The 3rd one of that attack is the best ever LO fast bowler, and he was at his menacing best.

That team had all 3 bowlers in Official Tournament XI, and it was a fantastic balanced attack with almost every type of options available to Captain (& a Captain, who knew how to use bowlers). Cricket is not a game like Football or Basketball that you can double team a CR, Messi or Durant - it's one on one between a batsman & bowler - those 30 overs won a WC. This is one reason that cricket teams can't be compared by player to player comparison, because the strength of the teams are not only the sum of individuals or stats (even from same era) - you can never measure the impact of those 10 overs of Akram, neither the intensity of any bowling attack under different Captains like Azhar, Sarfraz or Imran can be measured.

If I am to make a combined team, probably it'll end very balanced distribution -

1. Raja - His stats (35/65) till '92 final was world class, for the then cricket - it's higher in SR than Gordon Grineedge or Desi Haynes or Graham Gooch, and higher in average by some margin than Allen Border or Harry De Silva at that point of time. We are comparing Azhar's current stats of 38/75 with Raja, when the best are like 50/90 - you never know what Azhar would have done, when 30/60 stats were considered very good for openers & Graham Gooch had stats like 38/60 around at that time. Besides, Raja was in fantastic form in that tournament.
2. Fakhar - It's close between Fakhar & Sohail - Sohail also had a good tournament - won the MoM in the must win game against host AUS. Besides, he was a critical part of the bowling combination (Fakhar can bowl, but he is not part of a 5 men bowling strategy). But, this combined team doesn't need bowling back-up & Fakhar's contribution in KO matches were better.
3. Babar - Imran was a desperate measures at 3, to his credit he served the purpose (& almost bolted in SF)
4. Javed
5. Imran
6. Inzi
7. Sarfraz - Moin was probably similar in terms of Keeping, or may be a little bit inferior, but Sarfraz is a better bat, Moin was more impactful bat - I pick the better WK
8. Wasim
9. Mushi
10. Hasan
11. Amir - Ideally, Amir should miss out, because Aquib made the WC XI, which Amir failed. That tournament, Aquib was exceptional throughout - he also took 3 wickets in Final & good 3 wickets - Stuart, Fairbrother & forgot the 3rd one. But, Amir is by far better bowler, better batsman and he was instrumental in 2 of the 3 must win games that he played. Aquib or Sohail comes as the 12th man.

So, it's 6/5 to team 1992 or 7/5, with a back up. This makes the team of 1992 far better in 2 aspects -

a. Though starting XI is 6/5, but 1992 team had few truly remarkable match winners in Wasim, Javed, Imran & Inzi. Team 2017, may be had only one in Amir, or for this tournament 2 more young potentials. ABOVE ALL - they had 3 distinctive leaders for such ICC events - Wasim for bowling, Javed for batting and Imran while on field. 2017 team only partially had a bowling leader, and a decent field marshal, with Mohammad Hafeez or Azhar Ali while batting.

b. In a 15 men squad, next 3 spots actually will go to players from 1992 - Amir, Aquib & Moin. May be MoHa will come as 15th player, because of his off spin - which means, in a longer tournament, that 1992 team will do better. They actually did that, by gradually raising their game in later games & that longer format gave that team time to regroup.

You asked for bowling - 3 of the 5 bowlers are from 1992, with the prime spinner and # 1, 3, 5 in order of merit. Add to that the respective men in charge of marshaling those 2 separate attacks - it's actually not even an one sided contest.

i did pick the 2017 attack but going by ur logic about team combination and captaincy,,,,i will change it........over all 1992 squad was aheda no doubts but i did not consider aaqib javed that good but after lloking his record in 92 wc ,i can say that he was a better bowler in that tournament...
 
Hi Long time lurker here who just had to reply. Rameez is one of /if not the worst opener ever to have played for Pakistan. Any batsman in ct17 squad could have replaced him. Other than that Aaqib javed had a great final and definitely bowled better upfront than wasim. Wasim did bowl the best spell of the match. But as a unit ct17 just shades it for me.
 
CT 2017 had a better bowling attack overall while 92 World Cup team had better batsmen. Our CT batting only clicked in the final properly. A lot of people being critical on Ramiz Raja and Aamir Sohail but these 2 have got some of the best records for Pakistan in World Cups so clearly they were not too bad and played well when it mattered. Tough one for me to pick tbh.
 
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