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Pakistan comprehensively demolish Zimbabwe by nine wickets in the second ODI to take 2-0 series lead

We should be worried. The oracle has spoken.

The funniest thing is he started the sentence with "whilst Zimbabwe haven't delivered a knock out punch to Pakistan..." implying Zimbabwe had had the upper hand throughout their innings. :)))
 
It would have been a competitive total if Azhar Ali and Ahmed Shehzad were opening while Hafeez being the no. 3.
 
Much better intent from Imam.

He looks so good playing the cover drive.
 
Imam finding the fielder and two leaves already. Get on with it.
 
Imam solidying his spot in the test team.
 
mak36 said:
Imam finding the fielder and two leaves already. Get on with it.
Click to expand...

At the moment Imam's SR > Fakhar's. Are you also going to be harsh with Fakhar regarding this as you are with Imam? Especially since Fakhar is the "senior" between them and his role is to give a quick positive start.
 
Sirris said:
At the moment Imam's SR > Fakhar's. Are you also going to be harsh with Fakhar regarding this as you are with Imam? Especially since Fakhar is the "senior" between them and his role is to give a quick positive start.
Click to expand...

(i) Fakhar is at least showing intent.
(ii) They have different roles- Fakhar has the power game to make up for any dot balls. Imam doesn't- he is there to rotate the strike.
(iii) Fakhar is a known quantity. This series is a chance to test the fringe players and see if they can make the necessary improvements.
 
mak36 said:
(i) Fakhar is at least showing intent.
(ii) They have different roles- Fakhar has the power game to make up for any dot balls. Imam doesn't- he is there to rotate the strike.
(iii) Fakhar is a known quantity. This series is a chance to test the fringe players and see if they can make the necessary improvements.
Click to expand...

It is only been 5 overs and the guy is at 80+ SR. You are making it seem like as if every ball has to be a scoring one. In the last game Imam got to his 100 with a SR of around 90. Which is pretty damn good for Pakistani standard. Especially when in the past we would have Shehzad and Azhar opening at a SR of 40 in the initial overs.

There is valid criticism and then there is fi get pointing just to suit your narrative.

Just be upfront about your intentions and say you don't believe Imam deserves an ODI spot on merit and is only in the team because of inzi and that's why your looking for any shortcomings on his part to vilify him and prove your point.

Opening spot has always been an are of concern for is and a guy who scored a 100 while opening deserves some leeway. Irrespective of his doubtful selection.
 
What we I am looking at is a new guy who is at 21 off 25 when in past with other openers it would read 6 off 25 and that after years of international career. For me there is obvious reason to support the new guy and let him have his fair chance to prove his worth. I am not going to vilify him on the spot just because in an ideal world I want a player who can score at 120+ SR from the very first ball.
 
Sirris said:
It is only been 5 overs and the guy is at 80+ SR. You are making it seem like as if every ball has to be a scoring one. In the last game Imam got to his 100 with a SR of around 90. Which is pretty damn good for Pakistani standard. Especially when in the past we would have Shehzad and Azhar opening at a SR of 40 in the initial overs.

There is valid criticism and then there is fi get pointing just to suit your narrative.

Just be upfront about your intentions and say you don't believe Imam deserves an ODI spot on merit and is only in the team because of inzi and that's why your looking for any shortcomings on his part to vilify him and prove your point.

Opening spot has always been an are of concern for is and a guy who scored a 100 while opening deserves some leeway. Irrespective of his doubtful selection.
Click to expand...

Lol you clearly know nothing about me. I was the one defending Inzi when Imam was selected. I have also repeatedly said Imam is an excellent test prospect.

In fact I even started a thread on him after one match saying he was much better than Ahmed Shehzad!

A quick search confirms this:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-up-for-some-humble-pie&p=9477629#post9477629

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-up-for-some-humble-pie&p=9505710#post9505710

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-up-for-some-humble-pie&p=9505725#post9505725

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Haq-vs-Ahmed-Shehzad-Who-is-the-better-opener

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ed-for-the-right-format&p=9463893#post9463893

But equally I will criticise Imam just like I would any other player. If he is blocking and leaving against weak oppositions what is he going to do against stronger teams?

Anyway, think you owe me an apology.
 
Sirris said:
It is only been 5 overs and the guy is at 80+ SR. You are making it seem like as if every ball has to be a scoring one. In the last game Imam got to his 100 with a SR of around 90. Which is pretty damn good for Pakistani standard. Especially when in the past we would have Shehzad and Azhar opening at a SR of 40 in the initial overs.

There is valid criticism and then there is fi get pointing just to suit your narrative.

Just be upfront about your intentions and say you don't believe Imam deserves an ODI spot on merit and is only in the team because of inzi and that's why your looking for any shortcomings on his part to vilify him and prove your point.

Opening spot has always been an are of concern for is and a guy who scored a 100 while opening deserves some leeway. Irrespective of his doubtful selection.
Click to expand...

I hv come to the realisation that there's no point hammering sense into people who are here to push their agenda.
 
shaaik said:
I hv come to the realisation that there's no point hammering sense into people who are here to push their agenda.
Click to expand...

See above post. It's easy to make accusations and defame people.

At least bother looking at my comment history before speculating as to my "agenda."

Unlike others I want to see the team succeed- if that means me being wrong so be it.
 
people are harsh on Imam just because he is Inzi's nephew.

The guy since debut has 2 odi hundreds in 5 games and in his debut test got us over the line vs Ireland where we should have lost had he got out early.

I am not saying he is the next BC Lara but his performances do not warrant the harsh criticism he is subjected too.
 
mak36 said:
Lol you clearly know nothing about me. I was the one defending Inzi when Imam was selected. I have also repeatedly said Imam is an excellent test prospect.

In fact I even started a thread on him after one match saying he was much better than Ahmed Shehzad!

A quick search confirms this:

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-up-for-some-humble-pie&p=9477629#post9477629

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-up-for-some-humble-pie&p=9505710#post9505710

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...-up-for-some-humble-pie&p=9505725#post9505725

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...Haq-vs-Ahmed-Shehzad-Who-is-the-better-opener

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ed-for-the-right-format&p=9463893#post9463893

But equally I will criticise Imam just like I would any other player. If he is blocking and leaving against weak oppositions what is he going to do against stronger teams?

Anyway, think you owe me an apology.
Click to expand...

Lol. OK my apologies for trying to second guess your intentions.

I had to second guess it since I think you are going overboard with your criticism keeping the quality of openers we have had in the past in mind.

If this was Imam's 20th ODI I would be on board with you but this only his 6th. In the past by now we would have at least lost one wicket and be behind the RRR despite the weak opposition and low target.
 
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Xoib said:
people are harsh on Imam just because he is Inzi's nephew.

The guy since debut has 2 odi hundreds in 5 games and in his debut test got us over the line vs Ireland where we should have lost had he got out early.

I am not saying he is the next BC Lara but his performances do not warrant the harsh criticism he is subjected too.
Click to expand...

Correct, and I have made this point repeatedly. But equally that shouldn't mean he is above criticism. I treat him just like any other player.
 
Our team looks so much stronger having a reliable opener to partner Fakhar who rains in the runs, but doesn't stall the run rate, so far despite the issues he still scores comfortable over 80+ SR.

People are going on about him leaving bad balls but if he keeps this up, all for him being in the side. Clearly seems to have the ability. Has earnt his run, scored 2 centuries in 5 matches, and 1 in his first game. Usually when you have those players who succeed with any chance they're given, it's a good sign, shows that their hungry to succeed and aren't fazed by the step up to the international scene.
 
people should realize that outside pressure may get you in the squad but final XI is all Mickey and captain case in point Hafeez who has been warming the benches. Imam was preferred over Fakhar and Sami Aslam in UK tests and is again getting the nod over Hafeez and Haris here which clearly shows Mickey rates him and I trust the coach more then armchair PP experts.
 
Sirris said:
Lol. OK my apologies for trying to second guess your intentions.

I had to second guess it since I think you are going overboard with your criticism keeping the quality of openers we have had in the past in mind.

If this was Imam's 20th ODI I would be on board with you but this only his 6th. In the past by now we would have at least lost one wicket and be behind the RRR despite the weak opposition and low target.
Click to expand...

In the last ODI, after 18 overs there had been something like 11 overs of dot balls. That is simply not good enough.

All I am saying is if wants to stay in the team, that needs to improve. He is playing as a foil to Fakhar which means he simply has to rotate the strike better. For me the power game is less of a worry and something he can develop.
 
mak36 said:
Correct, and I have made this point repeatedly. But equally that shouldn't mean he is above criticism. I treat him just like any other player.
Click to expand...

No I think you are just jumping on the bandwagon in regards to criticizing Imam. The guy just scored 128 at 95+ SR somewhat making up for his initial slow start in the last innings and here you are scrutinizing each and every ball of his.

While Fakhar who has the role of being our big hitter has the same SR as Imam after playing the same number of balls. Yet no words on him for struggling to fulfill his role.
 
Xoib said:
people should realize that outside pressure may get you in the squad but final XI is all Mickey and captain case in point Hafeez who has been warming the benches. Imam was preferred over Fakhar and Sami Aslam in UK tests and is again getting the nod over Hafeez and Haris here which clearly shows Mickey rates him and I trust the coach more then armchair PP experts.
Click to expand...

Who in this thread has said Imam isn't a good player?

The point is there is always room for improvement.

The problem on PP is too often people blindly support or blindly hate a player irrespective of performance. Believe it or not, there is a middle ground...
 
This has to be the worst series in the history of series
 
Sirris said:
No I think you are just jumping on the bandwagon in regards to criticizing Imam. The guy just scored 128 at 95+ SR somewhat making up for his initial slow start in the last innings and here you are scrutinizing each and every ball of his.

While Fakhar who has the role of being our big hitter has the same SR as Imam after playing the same number of balls. Yet no words on him for struggling to fulfill his role.
Click to expand...

Lol at jumping on the bandwagon.

Have you even bothered reading my posts? I have been one of the few posters supporting Imam and defending Inzi selecting him.

Scoring runs against Zimbabwe's C team is not how you judge a player. Read post #7 in this thread. If I had something against the guy please explain why I wrote that? I want Imam to succeed. I have the bigger picture in mind.

He has shown better intent as the innings goes on but the dot balls are a concern. Making up for dot balls later on in your innings is not the modern way. You have to bat at a high s/r throughout your innings. In the first ODI, a large chunk of his innings was at 40 S/R. You happy with that? You think stronger teams will let you get away with that? Can there not be room for improvement? Or is a 22 years old who has played 5 ODIs perfect?

You are demonstrating a lack of cricketing knowledge when you compare Fakhar and Imam. They have different roles.
 
mak36 said:
Who in this thread has said Imam isn't a good player?

The point is there is always room for improvement.

The problem on PP is too often people blindly support or blindly hate a player irrespective of performance. Believe it or not, there is a middle ground...
Click to expand...

The point I am making is that you most certainly don't represent the middle ground. Especially not in this thread. When responding I look at things on post by post basis and don't necessarily have a poster's whole history in mind.
 
It's true any team would struggle without 8 frontline players but Zimbabwe have no bench strength to speak of.

International cricket should not be reduced to a glorified net session.
 
mak36 said:
He has shown better intent as the innings goes on but the dot balls are a concern. Making up for dot balls later on in your innings is not the modern way. You have to bat at a high s/r throughout your innings. In the first ODI, a large chunk of his innings was at 40 S/R. You happy with that? You think stronger teams will let you get away with that? Can there not be room for improvement? Or is a 22 years old who has played 5 ODIs perfect?
.
Click to expand...

It isn't perfect, but fact remains Imam still ended with a SR of 95. Which was higher than Fakhar and Babar.

Ability to accelerate is the most important thing strike rate wise IMO, if you're scoring big, you've got to be able to accelerate. As you're making up the lion share of the total. Imam at least seems to have some capability of doing that.

Azhar and Shehzad not only didn't score enough average wise, but they couldn't accelerate even with big scores. Which was a massive problem. If Imam carries on like he is averaging 50+ and over 80 SR will be great for us. A solid platform allows the guys down the order to play faster with more risk. And regardless of opposition, he's outperforming his peers whether it's zimbabwe or Sri Lanka. And it seems like he's rising to the occassion, no nerves given he's fresh to the international scene he just straight out performed. Which are good signs.

At least Imam seems to be determined to take the chances in front of him and run with it regardless of opposition. And whether their are doubts of whether he'll make it long term, I think he's certainly earnt his place in the side now. Harsh on Haris if he has to make way as a result who has had hardly given any chances since injury, but that's how cricket works.
 
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Guys you still hate the 22 year old opener just bcz his uncle is a selector?
 
Even Roots, Kohlis and Steven Smiths moreoften than not increase their strike rate in later half of the innings. I think some of us are too harsh on Imam
 
Damn, Imam came close to proving mak36's predictions of 52*(150) to be slightly off.

The whole reason why I was defending Imam wasn't because it is Imam, the person. But because he is a newbie who is showing better results than his predecessor. The merit of his selection is another topic for another thread. However I feel some people are quick to jumps the gun on him since they disagree with his selection.

In this match never once did Imam's SR went below 70 which could not be said about his predecessor irrespective of quality of the opposition. I want us to give the newbies who are atleast showing some potential a bit more leeway before we jump the gun and crucify them in less then 5 overs of the innigs.
 
Sirris said:
Damn, Imam came close to proving mak36's predictions of 52*(150) to be slightly off.

The whole reason why I was defending Imam wasn't because it is Imam, the person. But because he is a newbie who is showing better results than his predecessor. The merit of his selection is another topic for another thread. However I feel some people are quick to jumps the gun on him since they disagree with his selection.

In this match never once did Imam's SR went below 70 which could not be said about his predecessor irrespective of quality of the opposition. I want us to give the newbies who are atleast showing some potential a bit more leeway before we jump the gun and crucify them in less then 5 overs of the innigs.
Click to expand...

OK my apologies it was the poster AFM who made the prediction.
 
mak36 said:
Who in this thread has said that?
Click to expand...

No one but its always the case when someones relative is a selector that we only see nepotism in selection. I can see some people not liking him and that cant be due to cricket related reason as he has been performing pretty well. Yes needs to improve.

Incase of Farhat it was valid but Imam is a young guy who is performing at the moment.

Tell me if the two centuries which Imam scored would have been scored by Haris (though he is yet to score one) or may be Said Shakeel would ppl be saying the same thing. I dont think so.
 
Sirris said:
Damn, Imam came close to proving mak36's predictions of 52*(150) to be slightly off.

The whole reason why I was defending Imam wasn't because it is Imam, the person. But because he is a newbie who is showing better results than his predecessor. The merit of his selection is another topic for another thread. However I feel some people are quick to jumps the gun on him since they disagree with his selection.

In this match never once did Imam's SR went below 70 which could not be said about his predecessor irrespective of quality of the opposition. I want us to give the newbies who are atleast showing some potential a bit more leeway before we jump the gun and crucify them in less then 5 overs of the innigs.
Click to expand...

Honestly does it even matter if Imam scores slowly if it makes it up? And the end of the day it's still the same number of runs at a given strike rate, wherever he scores the runs. As long as the overall strike rate is decent it's fine.

If you start slowly in an innings, you ought to make sure you make use of the time you spent playing yourself in. Which Imam is doing.

What's bad is when a player either gets out after a slow start, or plays a long innings without upping the gear. Which Imam isn't doing, seems like he has the concentration and the fitness to play longer innings. And is well aware he needs to up the strike rate the longer he stays in (rather that just leave it to the rest).

The guys before him as you said were all culprits in the above regards. Imam so far is an improvement to that.
 
We are looking too much into performances against minnows. Imam has faced much better attacks than these even in domestics.
 
Fakhar needs to be bit selfish here for his century as Pak is winning either ways
 
Sirris said:
Damn, Imam came close to proving mak36's predictions of 52*(150) to be slightly off.

The whole reason why I was defending Imam wasn't because it is Imam, the person. But because he is a newbie who is showing better results than his predecessor. The merit of his selection is another topic for another thread. However I feel some people are quick to jumps the gun on him since they disagree with his selection.

In this match never once did Imam's SR went below 70 which could not be said about his predecessor irrespective of quality of the opposition. I want us to give the newbies who are atleast showing some potential a bit more leeway before we jump the gun and crucify them in less then 5 overs of the innigs.
Click to expand...

Where did I make that prediction? Again, that is a blatant lie. [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]

You obviously aren't interested in having a discussion. Just making allegations and defaming anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Regarding your second paragraph, I agree with you. In fact I wrote as much before you ever did. After his debut I started a thread saying Imam was much better than Ahmed Shahzad, and was told by posters I was speaking too soon. I was proved right.

Again, performing against Zimbabwe's C team is not a measure of success. Azhar Ali or Ahmed Shehzad
is not the ceiling. They are the baseline. You might have low expectations but I want Pakistan to be the best in the world. If they want to be the best, then they need to compare themselves to the best in the world and look to constantly improve.

Again, I have already written management should stick with Imam for now but they will want to see improvement. Based on today's innings, Imam agrees with me and so do the management. He batted better today than he did last match. That's not to say it was perfect, needs to show more intent early on. You obviously think it was perfect. In which case, more fool you.

The sooner you realise I like Imam the better. To be honest, you are making yourself look silly and actually arguing with yourself. There is an argument to be had, but it's not with me.
 
Fauji's second century just round the corner. Hope he gets there. Bobby might try to run him out :babar
 
Madplayer said:
Whats his domestic LA strike rate then?
Click to expand...

Players improve and evolve with time especially when they are in early 20s.
You can say that domestic stat of a certain 28 year old are certain way so he must be like that. Understanding the game of a 22 year old with limited domestic stats is always going to show a limited picture.
 
FZ slowing down for ton. :facepalm:


The only batsman who I've seen not give a rat's behind about nervous 90s was Sehwag. Heck I think he even brought up his 300 against us with a six.
 
If Imam plays the world cup 2019, his stats will be much better the predologies like Umar Akmal (played 2011, 2015), Ahmed Shehzad (Played 2011,2015) and even Haris Sohail (Played 2015 that is also 1 down, couldnt score a century even against Ireland). I like Haris but a batsman who doesnt convert his time runs to win matches and 100s is useless in my eye.

And none of ahmed Shehzad m, Umar Akam can play against Ireland in Ireland on thos conditions under pressure in test as Imam did and finished the job unlike many rated highly here
 
I am pretty sure Fakhar has it in him to finish his ODI career with avg in high 40s or 50 if he remains as dedicated as he is
 
Titan24 said:
If Imam plays the world cup 2019, his stats will be much better the predologies like Umar Akmal (played 2011, 2015), Ahmed Shehzad (Played 2011,2015) and even Haris Sohail (Played 2015 that is also 1 down, couldnt score a century even against Ireland). I like Haris but a batsman who doesnt convert his time runs to win matches and 100s is useless in my eye.

And none of ahmed Shehzad m, Umar Akam can play against Ireland in Ireland on thos conditions under pressure in test as Imam did and finished the job unlike many rated highly here
Click to expand...

Its ok we get it you like the kid... you don't have to keep harping about it.


You are jumping the gun and getting all giddy after his performances against mighty SL and Zim. Wait till he plays teams like Eng, Ind, SA and Aus. He had one opportunity against NZ and looked like a bunny.
 
Syed1 said:
FZ slowing down for ton. :facepalm:


The only batsman who I've seen not give a rat's behind about nervous 90s was Sehwag. Heck I think he even brought up his 300 against us with a six.
Click to expand...

He didn't slow down for the 100 that mattered. Sped up, in fact. :ashwin

Here, he has the room to do whatever he wants.
 
Syed1 said:
FZ slowing down for ton. :facepalm:


The only batsman who I've seen not give a rat's behind about nervous 90s was Sehwag. Heck I think he even brought up his 300 against us with a six.
Click to expand...

That too charging down the pitch against a spinner.

Say what you want about Sehwag but its not only his feet that were made of cement.
 
Bobby better not start slogging and let FZ have his century first
 
Fakhar looks really nervous.He’s in some serious form so not sure what he’s worried about.He doesn’t really play for records,or hasn’t done so in the past.

As I was typing that,he sweeps away the spinner for four.
 
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Arham_PakFan said:
Fakhar looks really nervous.He’s in some serious form so not sure what he’s worried about.He doesn’t really play for records,or hasn’t done so in the past.
Click to expand...

Dont think he is nervous or anything. On the contrary he is looking to force a boundary out of nowhere i think to get to his 100 quickly. This has infact resulted in more dot balls.
 
Best thing about FZ is that he plays at 90 SR throughout his innings and doesn't have to resort to extra slogging to bring his SR up from 60s and 70s unlike a few of his recent opening partners.
 
If Fakhar continues like this for another 3-5 years he might go down as our best ever LOI batsman
 
Syed1 said:
Its ok we get it you like the kid... you don't have to keep harping about it.


You are jumping the gun and getting all giddy after his performances against mighty SL and Zim. Wait till he plays teams like Eng, Ind, SA and Aus. He had one opportunity against NZ and looked like a bunny.
Click to expand...

Lol! Yes you are right we should wait and see. Its just like even in the case of Babar like Imam many talk about how he paced the innings and other such stuff without realizing that they are just 23 and 22, not many greats were ideal pacers of the innings at that age. We should be appreciating hunger of both for runs and good technique. We dont have many like these as we have lacked those hungry batsmen for almost 6-7 years now. You can groom a batsman with technique and temperament to pace innings in a certain way but teaching temperament is rare and we have some glaring examples in our system.

I am not a fan or anything, I only like players who can win it for Pakistan. He really won me over with his innings against Ire in Ireland. On paper it looks like an easy victory but if we see how well both Imam and Babar played under real pressure situation it was awesome.
 
Just goes to show what sheer willpower, determination and hardwork can make you achieve.


Well done Fauji


:bow: :bow: :bow:
 
mak36 said:
Where did I make that prediction? Again, that is a blatant lie. [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]
Click to expand...

Sorry yaar, embarrassing mistake. Confused you with the other guy.

As you said I got a memory of a fish but only when trying to remember which poster said what. In my day to day life I am proud of my memory.
 
InziRules said:
Reality check for mediocre Fakhar
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Still waiting to get "exposed against fast bowling due to his slow reflex"


And also "he will score more runs off his helmet since he will be slow on the pull shot"



#PP experts
 
coy0607 said:
thats great - century is great and all, but Fakhar is capable of destroying even the best attacks

not need to over celebrate this
Click to expand...

Compare it to some of the other players celebrating a 50 by taking off the helmet and doing sajdas etc.
 
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