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Pakistan fans need to believe in our core group of players for success in future

RizwanT20Champ said:
I firmly believe we should stick with our core group of players going forward:

1. Fakhar
2. Ayub
3. Rizwan
4. Babar
5. Shaheen
6. Naseem
7. Agha (in tests and ODIs)
8. Abrar

These 8 should be the core of the next 12-15 players that we groom. The time is not for drastic measures. After India were smashed in T20 WC 2021 and T20 WC 2022 they did not make a 180 change with personnel but they trusted their players. These players have done well for us in the past and need to be persisted with. Ask them to change the way they play and set new goals if needed but persist with them. With this mix and a few youngsters we can definitely do well in 2026 T20 WC and 2027 WC. PSL should not be criteria for selection.


@FearlessRoar @The Bald Eagle @Rana @mominsaigol @gazza619 @Ahmed216 @Kianig89 @Markhor @Nikhil_cric @Dr_Bassim @jamie smith
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Excellent post. This is how we need to move forward but we know decision makers in PCB are absolutely clueless.

Babar though was a very powerful captain at one point and he had an excellent opportunity to build a team but he made this huge mistake of not rotating his players enough and not introducing young players.


It meant more injuries to his main players and he did not have players ready as injury replacements.

Not did he have players ready to fill in for our of form players.
Still remember how he persisted with out of form Hassan Ali in 2021 which eventually cost him the WC.
 
Kianig89 said:
Do you know about fitness standards for any sport
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khyberlion said:
Azam is hardly had any success in domestics or leagues bar a few innings. Rizwan had a stellar record in all formats. Azam Khan will struggle to make the million domestics teams which we have.
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He's doing well in the PSL. He is the fastest to hit 200 t20 6s among Pak batters.
 
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Local.Dada said:
In T20 you need 20(10) type cameos. The tail is mostly bowling-allrounders. Abbas Afridi has capability to be a world beating allrounder and Naseem I feel like IK will be a batting allrounder in his late 30s. He has good batting temperament.

It is not atrocious if you have 25+ yrs of experience watching and understanding cricket 👍
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It is not atrocious if you have 25+ yrs of experience watching and understanding cricket 👍

You're correct, it is not atrocious because you have 25+ years of watching a format that isn't even 25 years old.

It is atrocious because your cricketing take is absolutely atrocious.
 
If I were Babar Azam’s dad, I wouldn’t be making instagram posts crying about Babar getting dropped from T20s

I would be constantly hounding the PCB to ensure Pakistan are playing 12-15 Tests a year so that my son can break those records in this format.

The whole family and their priorities come across as a joke!
 
Rana said:
If I were Babar Azam’s dad, I wouldn’t be making instagram posts crying about Babar getting dropped from T20s

I would be constantly hounding the PCB to ensure Pakistan are playing 12-15 Tests a year so that my son can break those records in this format.

The whole family and their priorities come across as a joke!
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All format nonsense is a joke. Throughout cricket history their have been very few all format players like Gayle, Travis, KP, Kohli and even then all these players have been better in whiteball then they have been in red ball.

Only contention is Ab, However de villers international t20 record is so hilariously poor that I don't really include him as an all format international player.

Most cricketers focus on one format where they shine and in this era, you have to choose between t20 specialist or test specialist due to Odi's decreasing popularity.

If I was Babar azam + his father, I'd choose test for the following reasons.

A) Babar's game is not suited for t20, He cannot or rather should I say is unwilling to learn how to loft and play according to modern standards.

B) He has to be adjusted as an opener or no 3 and it deprived young guns of chances.

If he becomes a test specialist then at the very least he can improve temperament and technique.

He sucks in tests cause not only is he even more gullible then Kohli in test cricket, but his technique is all over the place and it's a format where you need to have a strong technique.

But their are greater chances of improving in test format then their is in t20.

For t20 you either have the prowess or you don't. In test you can always improve.
 
mominsaigol said:
All format nonsense is a joke. Throughout cricket history their have been very few all format players like Gayle, Travis, KP, Kohli and even then all these players have been better in whiteball then they have been in red ball.

Only contention is Ab, However de villers international t20 record is so hilariously poor that I don't really include him as an all format international player.

Most cricketers focus on one format where they shine and in this era, you have to choose between t20 specialist or test specialist due to Odi's decreasing popularity.

If I was Babar azam + his father, I'd choose test for the following reasons.

A) Babar's game is not suited for t20, He cannot or rather should I say is unwilling to learn how to loft and play according to modern standards.

B) He has to be adjusted as an opener or no 3 and it deprived young guns of chances.

If he becomes a test specialist then at the very least he can improve temperament and technique.

He sucks in tests cause not only is he even more gullible then Kohli in test cricket, but his technique is all over the place and it's a format where you need to have a strong technique.

But their are greater chances of improving in test format then their is in t20.

For t20 you either have the prowess or you don't. In test you can always improve.
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Should be ODI accumulator with aggressive players.

Tests doesn't have good technique and now that Pakistan is going with dustbowls, won't be able to score runs.
 
There is lot of discussion in this forum on players. Let discuss what we are doing as cricket fans.

I believe we put players on heights too early in theirs careers on the basis of just few good performances without letting them become mature.

Similarly we do not support players in their bad times. There are good days & bad days in every cricketers life.

Baber is a prime example of this. He was still young when people compared him with Virat Kohli & classified him in world Fab four but now in his bad times want him to retire too early in his career.
 
Correct me if i am wrong. I think part of the problem is some of the "good days" of Babar were not actually good days if you look at it objectively. Few called this out even when he was not really out of form.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Correct me if i am wrong. I think part of the problem is some of the "good days" of Babar were not actually good days if you look at it objectively. Few called this out even when he was not really out of form.
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his good days were pretty average. He is a pretty decent bat who can retire as very good player for Pakistan. But he does seem to lack motivation, skills and ability to take it to next level.
 
khyberlion said:
Better than being Azam Khan. Should be concentrating on losing weight and looking like a cricketer than a sumo wrestler. You are wasting your time on here. This won't get you selected not even against Ireland.
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Despite him being overweight, he has the best T20 strike rate among active Pakistan players.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
Despite him being overweight, he has the best T20 strike rate among active Pakistan players.
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Yes an average of 3 with Sr less than 80 I believe outside Ireland. Brilliant attempt Azam Khan. Those stats won't get you selected for Cambodia.
 
khyberlion said:
Yes an average of 3 with Sr less than 80 I believe outside Ireland. Brilliant attempt Azam Khan. Those stats won't get you selected for Cambodia.
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Why are you excluding Ireland stats? They beat Pakistan once with star duo of RizBar in the team. And how many Cambodia players would get a CPL or ILT20 contracts?
 
RyanRyan10 said:
Why are you excluding Ireland stats? They beat Pakistan once with star duo of RizBar in the team. And how many Cambodia players would get a CPL or ILT20 contracts?
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And why are you ignoring that Pakistan won because of Babar and Rizwan too? Ireland is a minnow in case you are not aware. So when Pakistan lose its Babar and Rizwan fault but when they win and by scoring most of the runs it's Azam Khan 18 runs which matter. Height of being dishonest.
 
Sachin fan said:
Weird how this means their claimed age is always younger than their actual age but never older than their actual age. If it was truly because they didn't know, the age was as likely to be higher than real age as much as lower.

But every single one has lower age. Seems like deliberate to me
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Ofcourse its intentional. Its usually 4 years. In the most parts of KPK it can be 7 years.
 
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khyberlion said:
And why are you ignoring that Pakistan won because of Babar and Rizwan too? Ireland is a minnow in case you are not aware. So when Pakistan lose its Babar and Rizwan fault but when they win and by scoring most of the runs it's Azam Khan 18 runs which matter. Height of being dishonest.
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you are ignoring the fact that Azam Khan has played just 13 t20i innings. He might not be World class but at least plays with the right intent.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
you are ignoring the fact that Azam Khan has played just 13 t20i innings. He might not be World class but at least plays with the right intent.
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Right intent with an average of 3 and Sr less then 100 in t20s? Thank you we don't need that intent. As usual you avoided the main part of the post where your hyproicy was exposed.
 
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khyberlion said:
Right intent with an average of 3 and Sr less then 100 in t20s? Thank you we don't need that intent. As usual you avoided the main part of the post where your hyproicy was exposed.
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That's for a very small sample size. And he has shown his intent in various leagues around the world including PSL and CPL.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
That's for a very small sample size. And he has shown his intent in various leagues around the world including PSL and CPL.
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10 games are more than enough to show your talent at international level. The fact is he's been exposed in international cricket which is evident by his record for which even Chris Martin won't be proud off.
 
khyberlion said:
10 games are more than enough to show your talent at international level. The fact is he's been exposed in international cricket which is evident by his record for which even Chris Martin won't be proud off.
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that's your opinion. I would want him to get more opportunities. But he should have an excellent PSL first. Should do something extraordinary there, not just middling performance. Do you agree with this or want me to insult him?
 
Shehmir said:
There is lot of discussion in this forum on players. Let discuss what we are doing as cricket fans.

I believe we put players on heights too early in theirs careers on the basis of just few good performances without letting them become mature.

Similarly we do not support players in their bad times. There are good days & bad days in every cricketers life.

Baber is a prime example of this. He was still young when people compared him with Virat Kohli & classified him in world Fab four but now in his bad times want him to retire too early in his career.
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He has been for years, that is a bit too much, is it not?

Besides in his so called prime - Babar was a tuk tuk bat.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
that's your opinion. I would want him to get more opportunities. But he should have an excellent PSL first. Should do something extraordinary there, not just middling performance. Do you agree with this or want me to insult him?
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Any one wanting a player like Azam Khan in the team, has no knowledge about cricket.

Just check what Wood did to him.
 
I am glad RizBar have been dropped from T20s. This gives an opportunity to the kachra players to play and shine. Good days ahead.
 
gazza619 said:
I am glad RizBar have been dropped from T20s. This gives an opportunity to the kachra players to play and shine. Good days ahead.
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I think the new players need support from the fans.

Pakistan cricket will not end with the departure of Rizwan and Babar. Let's be honest we need better T20 role models for our youngsters the way the game has evolved in last few years.

We did not win tournaments even with Rizwan and Babar at their peak so why not try some new faces and try and build a good set of players.

I am very excited to see players like Maaz Irfan Omair Hassan. Time for these youngsters to throw caution to the winds.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Era of Viv richards and desmond haynes + Malcolm marshal has started.

Usman khan, Khushdil shah, faheem are all gonna smash them kiwis.
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Khushdil was part of the team where Babar scored 60 off 90 recently against Kiwis in Karachi…

Just saying
 
Rana said:
Yeah it’s shocking how the guy who did ok is getting hate

And two guys who had nothing to do with your consistent failures are also getting hate.
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And Saud, who played one of the best knock against Indian spinners in the tournament, has been dropped.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
And Saud, who played one of the best knock against Indian spinners in the tournament, has been dropped.
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I have a feeling he was the one who snitched to the management about Rizwan’s ridiculous statements about the management getting fired. I’m trying to connect the dots as he might have told Asad Shafique who is a selector.

Makes no sense otherwise how he isn’t in the ODI squad but RizBar and Imam retain their spots
 
Rana said:
They haven’t had a chance to do anything, so what’s the point of hating them? What about the hundreds of matches your heroes played and did nothing?
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Oh dont get me started. They have had ample chances in domestic cricket and have failed by a country mile. Some of them haven’t even played enough domestic cricket and you want them to do national duties?! Crazy!!!
 
gazza619 said:
Oh dont get me started. They have had ample chances in domestic cricket and have failed by a country mile. Some of them haven’t even played enough domestic cricket and you want them to do national duties?! Crazy!!!
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Who hasnt played domestic cricket and is doing national duty in this squad?
 
Rana said:
It’s funny how all of these players were the ‘golden generation of Pakistan’ when Imran Khan was the premier of Pakistan. Now they are all Kachra since Khan sab has gone to jail.
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One poster was crediting Ramiz Raja for "building the team", I asked how he did it and didn't get a straight reply

Another poster was saying Naqvi has caused downfall. I asked when did they even have a rise and he didn't reply.

Ramiz was really a great salesman.
 
@gazza619 which player who plays Domestic have I asked for to be in the team? Which players out of those selected don’t play domestic cricket?
 
RyanRyan10 said:
One poster was crediting Ramiz Raja for "building the team", I asked how he did it and didn't get a straight reply

Another poster was saying Naqvi has caused downfall. I asked when did they even have a rise and he didn't reply.

Ramiz was really a great salesman.
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Whatever Rameez was, he was not a muppet like Naqvi. He had genuine ideas and a vision. You could argue that his ideas weren't good but he was much better.
 
gazza619 said:
Whatever Rameez was, he was not a muppet like Naqvi. He had genuine ideas and a vision. You could argue that his ideas weren't good but he was much better.
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What was Ramiz’s genuine vision? “Cricket hi Babar hai. Babar hi dunya hai”. That’s his vision????
 
Rana said:
@gazza619 which player who plays Domestic have I asked for to be in the team? Which players out of those selected don’t play domestic cricket?
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Well if you check your own post and find domestic records, do a little CTRL F and find the records of the kachra which you are excited about.
 
gazza619 said:
Well if you check your own post and find domestic records, do a little CTRL F and find the records of the kachra which you are excited about.
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But who doesn’t play domestic in this squad? I like the players selected in T20s, which one doesn’t play domestic??
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
I firmly believe we should stick with our core group of players going forward:

1. Fakhar
2. Ayub
3. Rizwan
4. Babar
5. Shaheen
6. Naseem
7. Agha (in tests and ODIs)
8. Abrar

These 8 should be the core of the next 12-15 players that we groom. The time is not for drastic measures. After India were smashed in T20 WC 2021 and T20 WC 2022 they did not make a 180 change with personnel but they trusted their players. These players have done well for us in the past and need to be persisted with. Ask them to change the way they play and set new goals if needed but persist with them. With this mix and a few youngsters we can definitely do well in 2026 T20 WC and 2027 WC. PSL should not be criteria for selection.


@FearlessRoar @The Bald Eagle @Rana @mominsaigol @gazza619 @Ahmed216 @Kianig89 @Markhor @Nikhil_cric @Dr_Bassim @jamie smith
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Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen, Naseem (and Haris Rauf + Shadab) are just not good enough to play for Pakistan, they are tried and tested failures

Why should we believe in them? They need to be dropped ASAP from all formats...
 
I've been watching Pakistan cricket for decades, and I've seen them producing some of the most naturally gifted players in the world. But lately, I've noticed something troubling that goes beyond just losing matches or poor team selection. The real crisis in Pakistan cricket isn't on the field; it's in the stands and comment sections. It's the growing disconnect between what cricket actually is and what the fans think it should be.


Let me be clear from the start: Babar Azam has a T20I strike rate of around 129. Mohammad Rizwan sits at about 125. These numbers have become weapons in the hands of critics who seem to think anything below 150 is criminal. But here's what those critics don't understand or choose to ignore: cricket isn't just about hitting every ball for six. It never has been, and it never will be.


The most frustrating part? When you look at respected players worldwide with similar strike rates, nobody questions their place in their teams. Kane Williamson, New Zealand's former captain and one of the most respected batters in world cricket, has a T20I strike rate of 126. Yes, you read that right. Almost identical to Rizwan's. Yet he's considered a master tactician, a player who reads the game beautifully. He just captained Gujarat Titans in the IPL and is tearing up the Big Bash League with centuries. Nobody in New Zealand calls him slow.


Jos Buttler, England's white-ball captain and their most important limited-overs player, operates at a T20I strike rate of 128. That's actually lower than Babar's 129. But Buttler is celebrated as a match-winner, a leader, someone who understands situations. He was England's top scorer in the 2024 T20 World Cup with 214 runs. When he plays cautiously on a difficult pitch, English commentators praise his cricket intelligence. When Babar does the same, Pak fans scream about intent.


Joe Root, England's test captain and one of their finest batters across formats, has a T20I strike rate of 126. Almost identical to Rizwan's. Shikhar Dhawan, who opened for India in white-ball cricket for years, maintained a strike rate of 126 in T20Is. Nobody in India called him slow or demanded his head after every innings. These are players who built careers on understanding the game, not just hitting.


Steve Smith, Australia's batting genius and former captain, maintains around 125 in T20Is. That's exactly where Rizwan operates. But Smith is revered for his problem-solving ability, his technique, his match awareness. David Miller, South Africa's finisher and hero of countless chases, has a career T20I strike rate of 139. Yes, it's higher than Babar's 129, but not by the massive margin our critics would have you believe matters. Miller is considered one of the best finishers in world cricket.


Even more interesting are players who get massive IPL contracts despite these "slow" strike rates. Dawid Malan, who recently retired from international cricket, had a T20I strike rate of 128. He was ranked number one T20I batter in the world for long periods. Devon Conway from New Zealand plays at around 129 strike rate in T20Is but is considered crucial for his team's stability. Quinton de Kock, South Africa's explosive keeper-batter who everyone thinks of as aggressive, actually has a career T20I strike rate of about 136, which isn't miles ahead of where Babar operates.


Ajinkya Rahane just became captain of Kolkata Knight Riders for IPL 2025. His T20 strike rate has traditionally been in the 120s, though he's recently shown he can accelerate when given a clear role. KKR didn't make him captain because he hits every ball for six. They made him captain because he understands cricket, reads situations, and builds innings that win matches.


So why do Babar and Rizwan get crucified for numbers that are internationally acceptable? The answer lies in cricket culture, or rather, the lack of it.


Pakistani fans have developed a dangerous obsession with "intent" and "modern cricket" without understanding what these terms actually mean. Intent doesn't mean swinging at every ball. Modern cricket doesn't mean abandoning technique for blind aggression. But try explaining this to someone who's convinced that cricket began with T20 leagues and that test cricket is a waste of time.


The pitch conditions in Pakistan and the UAE, where they play most of the home games, are nothing like the flat tracks of India or the true surfaces of Australia. The pitches often slow down after the powerplay, the ball doesn't come onto the bat as nicely, and timing becomes more important than power. When Babar and Rizwan adjust their game to these conditions, building partnerships and ensuring we don't collapse, they're actually showing cricket intelligence. But the fans see it as weakness.


This brings me to the elephant in the room: the cricket media and former players who fuel this narrative. When someone like Aqib Javed or any other former player with obvious regional biases gets into a position of power, they shape public opinion through selective criticism. They'll highlight every dot ball Babar plays but won't mention the match-winning partnerships he builds. They'll question Rizwan's strike rate but ignore his average of nearly 50 in T20Is, which is extraordinary for the format.


The regional and ethnic divisions in our cricket are another poison that nobody wants to address openly. Whether a player is Punjabi, Pashtun, Sindhi, or Baloch somehow matters more than their performance. Fans don't just support or criticize based on cricket; they bring their provincial prejudices to every discussion. A Karachi player's failure becomes a Sindh failure. A Lahore player's success becomes a Punjab victory. This tribalism blinds to actual cricket analysis.


Compare this with how other countries treat their technically sound players. India elevated Rahul Dravid to legendary status despite him being one of the more defensive players of his era. They understood that his role was to be the wall, to ensure stability while others attacked around him. MS Dhoni often played at strike rates in the 120s during the middle overs, but he's worshipped because Indians understand the concept of building an innings. Australia cherished Steve Waugh's gritty approach even when they had more flamboyant options. England celebrates Joe Root's classical technique even in the age of Bazball.


But in Pakistan? They want everyone to be Shahid Afridi. They created a culture where hitting a quick 20 off 10 balls is valued more than scoring 70 off 55 balls. They celebrate the kamikaze innings that occasionally comes off but ignore the countless times it leads to early collapses. This isn't just poor cricket understanding; it's actively harmful to our team's development.


The statistics tell a story that their emotion-driven criticism ignores. Babar has scored over 4,200 runs in T20Is, the most by any Pakistani. Rizwan follows with over 3,400 runs. Together, they've put on more than 3,300 runs as a partnership, the highest by any pair in T20I history. These aren't accidents or flukes. These are consistent, match-winning contributions that have kept Pakistan competitive in a format where we've traditionally struggled for stability.


Rizwan's 2021 was historic. He scored more T20I runs in a calendar year than anyone else from any country ever had at that point. His consistency was remarkable, with scores of 50+ in almost every second innings. Yet all we heard was criticism about his strike rate, as if scoring runs at 125 strike rate is worse than getting out for 15 off 8 balls.


What's even more telling is how these players perform when given backing and clarity. Rizwan recently played at a strike rate of 147 in PSL 2025, showing he can accelerate when conditions allow. Babar maintained a strike rate of 142 in PSL 2024, leading his team effectively. Even Kane Williamson, who our fans would probably call slow, has been striking at 158 in recent Big Bash League games, including three centuries. These players aren't incapable of hitting; they're intelligent enough to know when to hit.


The role of an anchor in T20 cricket is still crucial, something our fans don't grasp. Statistical analysis shows that in chase scenarios, starting steady and playing longer often proves as effective as starting fast. Teams need someone to hold one end, absorb pressure when wickets fall, and ensure the explosive players have a platform. Without anchors, you get what Pakistan often becomes without Babar and Rizwan—a team that either scores 180 or gets bowled out for 120, with no middle ground.


What's bizarre is how Pak fans treat their players compared to similar players from other countries. When Devon Conway from New Zealand plays a measured innings at a strike rate of 130, he's praised for his composure. When Babar does the same, he's accused of playing for his average. When Shai Hope from West Indies anchors an innings at 125 strike rate, he's seen as bringing stability to a traditionally chaotic batting lineup. When Rizwan does it, he's called selfish.


International cricket is also different from franchise cricket, something Pak fans don't understand. In the IPL or PSL, teams can build entire squads around specific roles. You can have five players whose only job is to hit sixes. But international teams need balance across formats. The same players who play T20Is also play ODIs and Tests. You can't just pick eleven six-hitters and hope for the best.


The conditions in international cricket vary tremendously too. A game in Dubai might see 140 as a winning total, while a game in Mumbai might need 200. The ability to read these conditions and adapt is what separates good players from great ones. Babar and Rizwan have this ability, but our fans want them to play the same way regardless of conditions.


Pakistani former players who've become commentators and analysts bear huge responsibility for this mess. Instead of educating fans about the nuances of the game, they chase controversy for views and engagement. They know that criticizing Babar or Rizwan will trend, so they do it even when it makes no cricketing sense. They understand that regional controversies sell, so they fuel them with coded comments and selective analysis.


The media plays its part too, turning every loss into a crisis and every criticism into a headline. They don't analyze why we lost on a turning track in Karachi or why the ball wasn't coming onto the bat in Dubai. They just scream about strike rates and intent because that's easier than actual cricket journalism. They know most fans don't understand the technical aspects of the game, so they feed them simple narratives: Babar slow, Rizwan selfish, Pakistan backward.


This lack of cricket understanding extends to how we view different formats. Pak fans , journalists want test players to bat like T20 mercenaries and our T20 players to have test match averages, without understanding that different formats require different skills and approaches. We don't appreciate that having technically sound players like Babar and Rizwan actually gives us options and flexibility that pure hitters don't provide.


The coaching situation reflects this confusion too. They bring in foreign coaches expecting magic, then undermine them when they try to build a team based on solid cricket principles rather than flash and excitement. Gary Kirsten's recent resignation is just the latest example of how our cricket environment has become toxic for anyone trying to bring professional standards and logical thinking.


What frustrates me most is that Pakistan has the talent. Pakistan has always produced naturally gifted cricketers. But theu are being destroyed with Pak fan's ignorance and impatience. Young players coming through the system see how Babar and Rizwan are treated despite their success, and what message does that send? Play recklessly and fail glamorously rather than succeed through patience and technique?


Look at how other teams value their anchors. England keeps faith in Jos Buttler despite his strike rate of 128 because they understand his value goes beyond just hitting. New Zealand backs Kane Williamson because they know his cricket intelligence wins matches. India built their white-ball resurgence around players who could pace innings, not just hit blindly. Even the West Indies, traditionally known for power hitting, understand the value of players like Shai Hope who can provide stability.


I think Pakistani's need to fundamentally change how to think about cricket. The players need to educate the fans that cricket is a thinking game, not just a hitting contest. they need commentators who explain why a player is batting cautiously on a slow pitch rather than just criticizing the strike rate. We need media that analyzes the game properly rather than chasing cheap controversies. They also need to move past regional biases and judge players on their cricket alone.


Most importantly, they need to understand that players like Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan are not the problem with Pakistan cricket. They're among the few things we're getting right. Their consistency, technique, and ability to build innings are assets that most teams would kill for. The fact that we can't see this, that we actively attack them for not being something they're not supposed to be, that's the real tragedy of Pakistan cricket.


Until they fix their cricket culture, and develop a proper understanding of the game beyond just sixes and strike rates, they will continue to underachieve despite talent. They continue to chase shadows while missing the substance,and continue to be our own worst enemies, destroying what we should be celebrating.


The decline of Pakistan cricket isn't happening on the field. It's happening in their minds, in understanding, in approach to the game claiming to love but clearly don't understand. And until they address this fundamental problem, no amount of talent will save them from ourselves.
 
Buttler's T20Is SR is 147

SRs have to be put into context.

Most top T20I openers have SRs of 140-160.

A SR of 125-130 will be acceptable in the middle overs (say overs 7-15), but not in pp or the last 5 overs
 
AZulfi said:
Buttler's T20Is SR is 147

SRs have to be put into context.

Most top T20I openers have SRs of 140-160.

A SR of 125-130 will be acceptable in the middle overs (say overs 7-15), but not in pp or the last 5 overs
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my aplogy, I wanted to write about ODI SR, which is 115
But here's what you're missing: Pakistan doesn't have the luxury of specialist powerplay hitters like England or Australia. When you guys tried aggressive openers, often been 20/3 in 4 overs. Babar and Rizwan's role isn't just to blast in powerplays; it's to ensure we don't collapse.

The key context also you're missing: On slow Asian pitches where Pakistan plays, forcing 140+ SR in powerplays often results in collapses. A stable 125-130 SR that builds partnerships wins more games than failed attempts at 150+ SR.

Different conditions demand different approaches. When chasing 145 on a turning Karachi pitch, 125 SR wins matches. When batting first on a slow Dubai track, 130 SR while keeping wickets intact sets up competitive totals.

The criticism isn't about their strike rates in isolation, it's about ignoring the match contexts where those rates are actually optimal
AZulfi said:
Buttler's T20Is SR is 147

SRs have to be put into context.

Most top T20I openers have SRs of 140-160.

A SR of 125-130 will be acceptable in the middle overs (say overs 7-15), but not in pp or the last 5 overs
Click to expand...
 
runrainy said:
my aplogy, I wanted to write about ODI SR, which is 115
But here's what you're missing: Pakistan doesn't have the luxury of specialist powerplay hitters like England or Australia. When you guys tried aggressive openers, often been 20/3 in 4 overs. Babar and Rizwan's role isn't just to blast in powerplays; it's to ensure we don't collapse.

The key context also you're missing: On slow Asian pitches where Pakistan plays, forcing 140+ SR in powerplays often results in collapses. A stable 125-130 SR that builds partnerships wins more games than failed attempts at 150+ SR.

Different conditions demand different approaches. When chasing 145 on a turning Karachi pitch, 125 SR wins matches. When batting first on a slow Dubai track, 130 SR while keeping wickets intact sets up competitive totals.

The criticism isn't about their strike rates in isolation, it's about ignoring the match contexts where those rates are actually optimal
Click to expand...
Agree, every game is different. You must factor in the conditions (pitch, boundary size etc.) and the quality of the opposition.

The issue is actually dot balls. There have been T20I games where Pakistan played almost 60 dot balls i.e. half their overs. This is just unacceptable at this level. Even the best teams will play a few dot balls, about 4-5 overs on average (or 24-30 dot balls). However, anything more than that significantly lowers your chances of winning the match.

Stats show that teams that bowl 40 or more dot balls (6.4 overs) in an innings have a significantly higher win percentage
 
runrainy said:
I've been watching Pakistan cricket for decades, and I've seen them producing some of the most naturally gifted players in the world. But lately, I've noticed something troubling that goes beyond just losing matches or poor team selection. The real crisis in Pakistan cricket isn't on the field; it's in the stands and comment sections. It's the growing disconnect between what cricket actually is and what the fans think it should be.


Let me be clear from the start: Babar Azam has a T20I strike rate of around 129. Mohammad Rizwan sits at about 125. These numbers have become weapons in the hands of critics who seem to think anything below 150 is criminal. But here's what those critics don't understand or choose to ignore: cricket isn't just about hitting every ball for six. It never has been, and it never will be.


The most frustrating part? When you look at respected players worldwide with similar strike rates, nobody questions their place in their teams. Kane Williamson, New Zealand's former captain and one of the most respected batters in world cricket, has a T20I strike rate of 126. Yes, you read that right. Almost identical to Rizwan's. Yet he's considered a master tactician, a player who reads the game beautifully. He just captained Gujarat Titans in the IPL and is tearing up the Big Bash League with centuries. Nobody in New Zealand calls him slow.


Jos Buttler, England's white-ball captain and their most important limited-overs player, operates at a T20I strike rate of 128. That's actually lower than Babar's 129. But Buttler is celebrated as a match-winner, a leader, someone who understands situations. He was England's top scorer in the 2024 T20 World Cup with 214 runs. When he plays cautiously on a difficult pitch, English commentators praise his cricket intelligence. When Babar does the same, Pak fans scream about intent.


Joe Root, England's test captain and one of their finest batters across formats, has a T20I strike rate of 126. Almost identical to Rizwan's. Shikhar Dhawan, who opened for India in white-ball cricket for years, maintained a strike rate of 126 in T20Is. Nobody in India called him slow or demanded his head after every innings. These are players who built careers on understanding the game, not just hitting.


Steve Smith, Australia's batting genius and former captain, maintains around 125 in T20Is. That's exactly where Rizwan operates. But Smith is revered for his problem-solving ability, his technique, his match awareness. David Miller, South Africa's finisher and hero of countless chases, has a career T20I strike rate of 139. Yes, it's higher than Babar's 129, but not by the massive margin our critics would have you believe matters. Miller is considered one of the best finishers in world cricket.


Even more interesting are players who get massive IPL contracts despite these "slow" strike rates. Dawid Malan, who recently retired from international cricket, had a T20I strike rate of 128. He was ranked number one T20I batter in the world for long periods. Devon Conway from New Zealand plays at around 129 strike rate in T20Is but is considered crucial for his team's stability. Quinton de Kock, South Africa's explosive keeper-batter who everyone thinks of as aggressive, actually has a career T20I strike rate of about 136, which isn't miles ahead of where Babar operates.


Ajinkya Rahane just became captain of Kolkata Knight Riders for IPL 2025. His T20 strike rate has traditionally been in the 120s, though he's recently shown he can accelerate when given a clear role. KKR didn't make him captain because he hits every ball for six. They made him captain because he understands cricket, reads situations, and builds innings that win matches.


So why do Babar and Rizwan get crucified for numbers that are internationally acceptable? The answer lies in cricket culture, or rather, the lack of it.


Pakistani fans have developed a dangerous obsession with "intent" and "modern cricket" without understanding what these terms actually mean. Intent doesn't mean swinging at every ball. Modern cricket doesn't mean abandoning technique for blind aggression. But try explaining this to someone who's convinced that cricket began with T20 leagues and that test cricket is a waste of time.


The pitch conditions in Pakistan and the UAE, where they play most of the home games, are nothing like the flat tracks of India or the true surfaces of Australia. The pitches often slow down after the powerplay, the ball doesn't come onto the bat as nicely, and timing becomes more important than power. When Babar and Rizwan adjust their game to these conditions, building partnerships and ensuring we don't collapse, they're actually showing cricket intelligence. But the fans see it as weakness.


This brings me to the elephant in the room: the cricket media and former players who fuel this narrative. When someone like Aqib Javed or any other former player with obvious regional biases gets into a position of power, they shape public opinion through selective criticism. They'll highlight every dot ball Babar plays but won't mention the match-winning partnerships he builds. They'll question Rizwan's strike rate but ignore his average of nearly 50 in T20Is, which is extraordinary for the format.


The regional and ethnic divisions in our cricket are another poison that nobody wants to address openly. Whether a player is Punjabi, Pashtun, Sindhi, or Baloch somehow matters more than their performance. Fans don't just support or criticize based on cricket; they bring their provincial prejudices to every discussion. A Karachi player's failure becomes a Sindh failure. A Lahore player's success becomes a Punjab victory. This tribalism blinds to actual cricket analysis.


Compare this with how other countries treat their technically sound players. India elevated Rahul Dravid to legendary status despite him being one of the more defensive players of his era. They understood that his role was to be the wall, to ensure stability while others attacked around him. MS Dhoni often played at strike rates in the 120s during the middle overs, but he's worshipped because Indians understand the concept of building an innings. Australia cherished Steve Waugh's gritty approach even when they had more flamboyant options. England celebrates Joe Root's classical technique even in the age of Bazball.


But in Pakistan? They want everyone to be Shahid Afridi. They created a culture where hitting a quick 20 off 10 balls is valued more than scoring 70 off 55 balls. They celebrate the kamikaze innings that occasionally comes off but ignore the countless times it leads to early collapses. This isn't just poor cricket understanding; it's actively harmful to our team's development.


The statistics tell a story that their emotion-driven criticism ignores. Babar has scored over 4,200 runs in T20Is, the most by any Pakistani. Rizwan follows with over 3,400 runs. Together, they've put on more than 3,300 runs as a partnership, the highest by any pair in T20I history. These aren't accidents or flukes. These are consistent, match-winning contributions that have kept Pakistan competitive in a format where we've traditionally struggled for stability.


Rizwan's 2021 was historic. He scored more T20I runs in a calendar year than anyone else from any country ever had at that point. His consistency was remarkable, with scores of 50+ in almost every second innings. Yet all we heard was criticism about his strike rate, as if scoring runs at 125 strike rate is worse than getting out for 15 off 8 balls.


What's even more telling is how these players perform when given backing and clarity. Rizwan recently played at a strike rate of 147 in PSL 2025, showing he can accelerate when conditions allow. Babar maintained a strike rate of 142 in PSL 2024, leading his team effectively. Even Kane Williamson, who our fans would probably call slow, has been striking at 158 in recent Big Bash League games, including three centuries. These players aren't incapable of hitting; they're intelligent enough to know when to hit.


The role of an anchor in T20 cricket is still crucial, something our fans don't grasp. Statistical analysis shows that in chase scenarios, starting steady and playing longer often proves as effective as starting fast. Teams need someone to hold one end, absorb pressure when wickets fall, and ensure the explosive players have a platform. Without anchors, you get what Pakistan often becomes without Babar and Rizwan—a team that either scores 180 or gets bowled out for 120, with no middle ground.


What's bizarre is how Pak fans treat their players compared to similar players from other countries. When Devon Conway from New Zealand plays a measured innings at a strike rate of 130, he's praised for his composure. When Babar does the same, he's accused of playing for his average. When Shai Hope from West Indies anchors an innings at 125 strike rate, he's seen as bringing stability to a traditionally chaotic batting lineup. When Rizwan does it, he's called selfish.


International cricket is also different from franchise cricket, something Pak fans don't understand. In the IPL or PSL, teams can build entire squads around specific roles. You can have five players whose only job is to hit sixes. But international teams need balance across formats. The same players who play T20Is also play ODIs and Tests. You can't just pick eleven six-hitters and hope for the best.


The conditions in international cricket vary tremendously too. A game in Dubai might see 140 as a winning total, while a game in Mumbai might need 200. The ability to read these conditions and adapt is what separates good players from great ones. Babar and Rizwan have this ability, but our fans want them to play the same way regardless of conditions.


Pakistani former players who've become commentators and analysts bear huge responsibility for this mess. Instead of educating fans about the nuances of the game, they chase controversy for views and engagement. They know that criticizing Babar or Rizwan will trend, so they do it even when it makes no cricketing sense. They understand that regional controversies sell, so they fuel them with coded comments and selective analysis.


The media plays its part too, turning every loss into a crisis and every criticism into a headline. They don't analyze why we lost on a turning track in Karachi or why the ball wasn't coming onto the bat in Dubai. They just scream about strike rates and intent because that's easier than actual cricket journalism. They know most fans don't understand the technical aspects of the game, so they feed them simple narratives: Babar slow, Rizwan selfish, Pakistan backward.


This lack of cricket understanding extends to how we view different formats. Pak fans , journalists want test players to bat like T20 mercenaries and our T20 players to have test match averages, without understanding that different formats require different skills and approaches. We don't appreciate that having technically sound players like Babar and Rizwan actually gives us options and flexibility that pure hitters don't provide.


The coaching situation reflects this confusion too. They bring in foreign coaches expecting magic, then undermine them when they try to build a team based on solid cricket principles rather than flash and excitement. Gary Kirsten's recent resignation is just the latest example of how our cricket environment has become toxic for anyone trying to bring professional standards and logical thinking.


What frustrates me most is that Pakistan has the talent. Pakistan has always produced naturally gifted cricketers. But theu are being destroyed with Pak fan's ignorance and impatience. Young players coming through the system see how Babar and Rizwan are treated despite their success, and what message does that send? Play recklessly and fail glamorously rather than succeed through patience and technique?


Look at how other teams value their anchors. England keeps faith in Jos Buttler despite his strike rate of 128 because they understand his value goes beyond just hitting. New Zealand backs Kane Williamson because they know his cricket intelligence wins matches. India built their white-ball resurgence around players who could pace innings, not just hit blindly. Even the West Indies, traditionally known for power hitting, understand the value of players like Shai Hope who can provide stability.


I think Pakistani's need to fundamentally change how to think about cricket. The players need to educate the fans that cricket is a thinking game, not just a hitting contest. they need commentators who explain why a player is batting cautiously on a slow pitch rather than just criticizing the strike rate. We need media that analyzes the game properly rather than chasing cheap controversies. They also need to move past regional biases and judge players on their cricket alone.


Most importantly, they need to understand that players like Babar Azam and Mohammad Rizwan are not the problem with Pakistan cricket. They're among the few things we're getting right. Their consistency, technique, and ability to build innings are assets that most teams would kill for. The fact that we can't see this, that we actively attack them for not being something they're not supposed to be, that's the real tragedy of Pakistan cricket.


Until they fix their cricket culture, and develop a proper understanding of the game beyond just sixes and strike rates, they will continue to underachieve despite talent. They continue to chase shadows while missing the substance,and continue to be our own worst enemies, destroying what we should be celebrating.


The decline of Pakistan cricket isn't happening on the field. It's happening in their minds, in understanding, in approach to the game claiming to love but clearly don't understand. And until they address this fundamental problem, no amount of talent will save them from ourselves.
Click to expand...
Facts that should be corrected from OPs post

1) Kane Williamson career SR in T20Is is 123. He has been rightly criticized for it and he made focused attempts to improve it. He has scored 85(48) against Aus in a knockout game compared to Rizbar's underwhelming 106(86). In IPL in last 3 yrs he has played total of 3 games as teams have clearly shown him that they cannot accomodate a low SR player

2) Steve Smith's career T20I SR is 125. He was dropped at age 33 ahead of a home WT20 for not being in sync with the zeitgeist

3) Joe Root's career SR is 126. He has not been selected in T20I cricket by England since 2019 as they deemed his skillset surplus to reqmts. Root also has piloted a WT20 chase of 230 against prime SA team with 83(44). This inns is well beyond capabilities of RizBar

4) Dawid Malan's career SR is 132 and it was up at 138-140 for a large part. Effectively he was the improved anchor that England ditched Root for given leftie and ability to reverse sweep and scoop

5) Jos Buttler's career T20I SR is 147 and not 128.

6) Devon Conway's intl SR in a 5 yr career is 128. However in 2020 and 2021 it was up at 145. He slowed down post injuries and in last 3 yrs has been effectively replaced by more aggressive openers

7) Shai Hope strikes at 137 in T20Is. And for several years he couldn't get into the WI lineup because they weren't satisfied with his six hitting skill.

8) Shikhar dhawan's T20I numbers were always under scanner. He was dropped during a WT20 for Rahane and post 2019 he was no longer a regular

9) Dhoni has not played for India since 2019. His era was different and even then he would get brickbats for being slower than other successful T20I finishers. In Indian colours he has been a very low impact T20I batter.

Rizwan and Babar have no standing in international game. Rizwan in particular is a limited strokemaker and will never threaten to take game away from an intl side. Any team would be happy to let Rizwan play out full PP especially on a flat deck.

Babar is more talented but he has not developed the power hitting game needed for modern T20I era.

Even the most successful anchor batter of first gen T20I - Virat Kohli has consciously tried even in his dotage with middling success to upgrade his game to modern high SR era. However Babar remains in his comfort zone as same batter he was at 26 without evolution.

Fans may go overboard in criticism of their personalities in subcontinent which is warranted but most of the technical points against them are warranted. These 2 players style of play, mental approach and ability to assess situation in key games is not high quality and not suitable for a top level team.
 
pratiktc said:
Facts that should be corrected from OPs post

1) Kane Williamson career SR in T20Is is 123. He has been rightly criticized for it and he made focused attempts to improve it. He has scored 85(48) against Aus in a knockout game compared to Rizbar's underwhelming 106(86). In IPL in last 3 yrs he has played total of 3 games as teams have clearly shown him that they cannot accomodate a low SR player

2) Steve Smith's career T20I SR is 125. He was dropped at age 33 ahead of a home WT20 for not being in sync with the zeitgeist

3) Joe Root's career SR is 126. He has not been selected in T20I cricket by England since 2019 as they deemed his skillset surplus to reqmts. Root also has piloted a WT20 chase of 230 against prime SA team with 83(44). This inns is well beyond capabilities of RizBar

4) Dawid Malan's career SR is 132 and it was up at 138-140 for a large part. Effectively he was the improved anchor that England ditched Root for given leftie and ability to reverse sweep and scoop

5) Jos Buttler's career T20I SR is 147 and not 128.

6) Devon Conway's intl SR in a 5 yr career is 128. However in 2020 and 2021 it was up at 145. He slowed down post injuries and in last 3 yrs has been effectively replaced by more aggressive openers

7) Shai Hope strikes at 137 in T20Is. And for several years he couldn't get into the WI lineup because they weren't satisfied with his six hitting skill.

8) Shikhar dhawan's T20I numbers were always under scanner. He was dropped during a WT20 for Rahane and post 2019 he was no longer a regular

9) Dhoni has not played for India since 2019. His era was different and even then he would get brickbats for being slower than other successful T20I finishers. In Indian colours he has been a very low impact T20I batter.

Rizwan and Babar have no standing in international game. Rizwan in particular is a limited strokemaker and will never threaten to take game away from an intl side. Any team would be happy to let Rizwan play out full PP especially on a flat deck.

Babar is more talented but he has not developed the power hitting game needed for modern T20I era.

Even the most successful anchor batter of first gen T20I - Virat Kohli has consciously tried even in his dotage with middling success to upgrade his game to modern high SR era. However Babar remains in his comfort zone as same batter he was at 26 without evolution.

Fans may go overboard in criticism of their personalities in subcontinent which is warranted but most of the technical points against them are warranted. These 2 players style of play, mental approach and ability to assess situation in key games is not high quality and not suitable for a top level team.
Click to expand...

This comment perfectly illustrates the toxic fan culture I was discussing. Let's address these "corrections" with actual context:


1. Kane Williamson (123 SR): You conveniently ignore that he just scored THREE centuries in his last 7 BBL games at 158+ SR. Gujarat Titans retained him for IPL 2025. If he's so unwanted, why are franchises paying millions for him? His evolution shows exactly what I argued - players adapt when given proper roles.

2. Steve Smith (125 SR): Dropped at 33? He's 35 now and still playing BBL, getting picked in drafts. Australia dropped him to blood youngsters for a home World Cup, not because 125 SR is unacceptable.

3. Joe Root (126 SR): England has the luxury of specialists. Pakistan doesn't. Root's 83(44) you mention? Babar has scored 122(59), 110*(66), 101(58) in T20Is. Rizwan has 104*(64), 91*(60), 88*(67). "Beyond capabilities of RizBar"? Check the scorecards.

4. Dawid Malan (132 SR): You admit he was England's "improved anchor" - exactly my point! Teams need anchors, just evolved ones. Babar at 129 and improving isn't far from Malan's role.

5. Jos Buttler (147 SR): Yes, I corrected this already. But his ODI SR is 115. Even explosive players adapt to context - my exact argument.

6. Devon Conway (128 SR): "Effectively replaced"? He played for New Zealand in 2024 and is in BBL drafts. Injuries slowed him, not his strike rate.

7. Shai Hope (137 SR): Now a regular in West Indies T20I setup. His anchoring role is valued despite their power-hitting culture.

8. Dhawan: Played till 2022, not dropped for strike rate but for younger players. Was India's first-choice opener for years at 126 SR.

9. Dhoni: "Very low impact T20I batter"? Won India multiple World Cups with his situational awareness. His era wasn't different - cricket basics remain same.


Your core argument falls apart with one question: If 125-130 SR is unacceptable, why do teams keep picking these players? Why did Rizwan get picked 4th overall in BBL draft? Why is Babar leading PSL teams?


You claim "any team would be happy to let Rizwan play out full PP" - yet he averages 47 in T20Is. If teams are so happy, why does he keep scoring runs?


The "modern high SR era" you mention is a myth. Success comes from balance. India's T20 World Cup winning team had anchors. England balances Buttler's explosiveness with Root-type players in ODIs.

The real issue? You're comparing Pakistan's resources with England/India who have specialist pools. Pakistan needs multi-format players. Babar and Rizwan average 40+ in T20Is while opening in tough conditions. Show me these mythical 150+ SR Pakistani openers who can do better.


Your comment proves my original point: Pakistani cricket discourse prefers destructive criticism over constructive analysis. You cherry-pick stats, ignore context, and demand impossible standards while offering no viable alternatives.

Name one Pakistani opener combination that would average 40+ at 150+ SR on UAE/Pakistan pitches. Just one. I'll wait.
 
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