Pakistan has the best ODI pace attack in the world

[Rana]

Just realised, Pakistan had 3 seamers in their 2003 wc attack that averaged below 25 runs per wicket and had taken close to 1000 ODI wickets between them.

The current 3 (Shaheen, Harris and Naseem) have an average age of 25, all 3 average below 25 and have also taken 100+ wickets at this level.

Maybe I am wrong, or will be proven wrong but this might actually be our best trio of pacers in 20 years. All 3 of them are more than useful fielders and 2 of them at least can add some value with the bat.

Can the 2023 World Cup trio do what the 2003 trio failed to do?

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Just realised, Pakistan had 3 seamers in their 2003 wc attack that averaged below 25 runs per wicket and had taken close to 1000 ODI wickets between them.

The current 3 (Shaheen, Harris and Naseem) have an average age of 25, all 3 average below 25 and have also taken 100+ wickets at this level.

Maybe I am wrong, or will be proven wrong but this might actually be our best trio of pacers in 20 years. All 3 of them are more than useful fielders and 2 of them at least can add some value with the bat.

Can the 2023 World Cup trio do what the 2003 trio failed to do?

i would rate them even better as compare to wasim, waqar and shoaib of 2003 worldcup because they are young, fit and energetic.

 

[Major]

World Cups are not won based on your bowling, but based more on your batting.

In every world cup we had a poor batting talent that resulted in us losing. This is for the first time that we are taking an ODI team with some very good batting talent. Almost every batter of ours avgs above 40, and shadab avgs 30+

We are not gonna win the world cup just on bowling, but more on batting performance.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

World Cups are not won based on your bowling, but based more on your batting.

In every world cup we had a poor batting talent that resulted in us losing. This is for the first time that we are taking an ODI team with some very good batting talent. Almost every batter of ours avgs above 40, and shadab avgs 30+

We are not gonna win the world cup just on bowling, but more on batting performance.

Well, its the combination of both.. weak bowking can let u down either so we need a proper combination.

 

[Rana]

i would rate them even better as compare to wasim, waqar and shoaib of 2003 worldcup because they are young, fit and energetic.

Going into this World Cup, yes….maybe

But you cannot count out Wasim/Waqar’s experience and ability to bowl even at the twilight of their career’s

Wasim was top class against Australia who went on to win the World Cup. I believe he removed Gilchrist, Hayden and Ponting. Waqar also did bring Pakistan briefly back into the game against India with his double ball strikes of Sehwag and Ganguly. Wasim should have had the wicket of Tendulkar in the early part of his innings

These guys were finished but they still had the quality to produce the goods in big games

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Going into this World Cup, yes….maybe

But you cannot count out Wasim/Waqar’s experience and ability to bowl even at the twilight of their career’s

Wasim was top class against Australia who went on to win the World Cup. I believe he removed Gilchrist, Hayden and Ponting. Waqar also did bring Pakistan briefly back into the game against India with his double ball strikes of Sehwag and Ganguly. Wasim should have had the wicket of Tendulkar in the early part of his innings

These guys were finished but they still had the quality to produce the goods in big games

yeah that's why i mentioned 2003 worldcup.. on their prime nobody can get near to their class which they had.

 

[Marooned]

It's a very potent pace trio for odis, best in world imo but that won't be enough to win a WC.
Our batting struggles big time on slow pitches and will be undone at some point.

 

[Suleiman]

Cool stat, but that’s p much it lol. If the trio have some sort of golden run of form and win games single-handedly then that’d be amazing.

Otherwise, harsh to expect them to carry wins with their performance alone.

Especially when we have a decent batting line up. Usually we have good bowling or batting, rarely are we good to go on both fronts. Hopefully this time iA.

 

[Maher96]

We took passengers for years. We finally have a squad of decent players.

Fielding above all in this team should be a treat. We have a WK who will be agile and taking catches.

Batting still living on Inshallah but hopes are there.

Asia Cup is a great test to see where we stand and improvements needed.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

It's a very potent pace trio for odis, best in world imo but that won't be enough to win a WC.
Our batting struggles big time on slow pitches and will be undone at some point.

This Srilankan pitch doesn't seem slow to me... Yeah, but it does support turn and, the Pakistani team has been lacking the ability to play spin for the last few years. So, Let's see how they handle Afghan spinners in the next match.

 

[Firebat]

Between the end of the 2019 WC and today, Pakistan's pacers have the best average and SR in the world.



Does this come as a surprise? Are the stats misleading? Or does Pakistan really have the most formidable pace attack at this year's WC? Discuss.

 

[Rana]

Bangladesh is second best so…that tells me all I need to know

 

[MenInG]

Bangladesh is second best so…that tells me all I need to know

Yes it tells us that these are the best ODI attacks in the world.

 

[Rana]

Yes it tells us that these are the best ODI attacks in the world.

If that’s what you want to believe.

I’m also entitled to believe I am the witch king of Angmar

 

[MenInG]

If that’s what you want to believe.

I’m also entitled to believe I am the witch king of Angmar

I am basing it on the stats presented in the picture.

You are working on some anecdotal basis - which is fine as that's your view.

 

[Firebat]

Pakistan's 29 ODIs in this stat:

2 v Sri Lanka
3 v Zimbabwe
3 v South Africa
3 v England
3 v Australia
3 v West Indies
3 v Netherlands
8 v New Zealand
1 v Afghanistan

So 17 of the 29 against SENA countries.

Additionally, 19 were at home, 10 away.

 

[MenInG]

Naseem the best economy rate - this could come handy where not much else for bowlers

 

[Devadwal]

Chalo toda Zameen pe aa gye aaj

 

[MenInG]

Chalo toda Zameen pe aa gye aaj

Lets see when Pakistan bat.

 

[Devadwal]

Lets see when Pakistan bat.

If you're recognised as world best pace attack then you have to take wicket on any type of pitch .

 

[MenInG]

If you're recognised as world best pace attack then you have to take wicket on any type of pitch .

Not really

A good attack will provide the best possible chance for their batters to win games or win it themselves.

 

[MenInG]

Impressions based on today's performance?

 

[Major]

Credit to Afghanistan you have played well.

 

[Major]

we were making fun of Afghanistan the other day, now today Pakistan is gonna be targetted. Starting from the best pace attack drama.

 

[Firebat]

Some people struggling with the statistics (also known as reality) of Pakistan's excelling pace attack - because of one bad day at the office, 2 days after they bowled the same team out for 59

 

[Marooned]

Yes, imo it is the best pace attack in white ball formats atm.

That doesn't mean they can never be overcome. Even the best attacks in history have had games where they were off.

What is true is that they possess ample match winning ability and are able to cover up even for below par batting performances at times.

 

[Marooned]

Impressions based on today's performance?

Think Shaheen and Naseem were pretty decent considering the conditions. Rauf had a bad game but that's nothing to be alarmed about.

 

[daytrader]

The 4th pacer is going to be key. Abdul Razzaq didn't have a great WC in 2003.

Hopefully team selects a 4th pace option in either Faheem or M Wasim. No point of having an extra spin option if Babar doesn't use all of them.

 

[hitthestump]

Meh, hardly anybody plays full strength ODI's these days.

Pakistan should be at the top of the list given we go gung ho against everyone.

 

[Executioner]

Bangladesh is second best so…that tells me all I need to know

Bangladesh has actually been pretty good in the last 4 years. Taskin, Hasan, Ebadat, you can see their performances for yourself.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Naseem the best economy rate - this could come handy where not much else for bowlers

He's the difference maker imo. His economical bowling is resulting in chaseable targets. NZ at Rawalpindi, AFG here. Ensuring that opposition batters don't run away with it

 

[MenInG]

Hopefully a different pitch today and we should see better results for Pakistan bowlers.

 

[jeetu]

Bowling records | One-Day Internationals | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com

Table based on OP's post against SENA+Ind+Pak+SL
[table=class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Team [/td][td]Players [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Avg [/td][td]Econ [/td][td]SR [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Pakistan [/td][td]12 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]100 [/td][td]30.96 [/td][td]5.83 [/td][td]31.8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]England [/td][td]21 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]146 [/td][td]32.06 [/td][td]5.33 [/td][td]36 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]New Zealand [/td][td]17 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]131 [/td][td]32.89 [/td][td]5.48 [/td][td]35.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]India [/td][td]18 [/td][td]37 [/td][td]162 [/td][td]33.43 [/td][td]5.94 [/td][td]33.7 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]South Africa [/td][td]13 [/td][td]24 [/td][td]106 [/td][td]33.44 [/td][td]5.92 [/td][td]33.8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bangladesh [/td][td]9 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]71 [/td][td]33.47 [/td][td]5.75 [/td][td]34.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ireland [/td][td]7 [/td][td]10 [/td][td]47 [/td][td]33.53 [/td][td]6.42 [/td][td]31.3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Zimbabwe [/td][td]10 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]46 [/td][td]34.95 [/td][td]5.6 [/td][td]37.4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Australia [/td][td]13 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]131 [/td][td]35.87 [/td][td]5.36 [/td][td]40 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Afghanistan [/td][td]7 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]36.77 [/td][td]6.39 [/td][td]34.4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Netherlands [/td][td]10 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]56 [/td][td]36.78 [/td][td]6.1 [/td][td]36.1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sri Lanka [/td][td]16 [/td][td]21 [/td][td]65 [/td][td]38.61 [/td][td]6.1 [/td][td]37.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]West Indies [/td][td]17 [/td][td]33 [/td][td]129 [/td][td]39.82 [/td][td]5.95 [/td][td]40.1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Scotland [/td][td]8 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]3 [/td][td]78.66 [/td][td]5.26 [/td][td]89.6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]U.A.E. [/td][td]4 [/td][td]1 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]85.5 [/td][td]6.84 [/td][td]75 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

 

[sam_ahm]

I would still say lack of an attacking spinner is a bit of a question mark but other than that this is a great ODI attack, no doubt about it. As of now Shadab and Nawaz (along with Agha) are doing a fair job but still this remains an area of concern.

Those talking about Bangladesh at 2nd, well you need to watch some cricket and then speak. The current Bangladesh attack is the best in their history - Taskin, Ebadot, Mustafiz, Shakib, Mehdi, with Hasan Mahmud and Shoriful as back ups... All 7 of them are very capable bowlers, you can see the stats and how they have caused damage even against good opponents. Bangladesh will be a team that might surprise a lot of people at the World Cup.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Only Saffers can possibly outstrip Pakistan as a pace attack.

Jansen, Nortje, Rabada, Coetzee, Magala, Ngidi. If all these guys are at their best and fittest, its the only attack that can challenge PAK's attack.

 

[pakfan54588]

I would still say lack of an attacking spinner is a bit of a question mark but other than that this is a great ODI attack, no doubt about it. As of now Shadab and Nawaz (along with Agha) are doing a fair job but still this remains an area of concern.

Those talking about Bangladesh at 2nd, well you need to watch some cricket and then speak. The current Bangladesh attack is the best in their history - Taskin, Ebadot, Mustafiz, Shakib, Mehdi, with Hasan Mahmud and Shoriful as back ups... All 7 of them are very capable bowlers, you can see the stats and how they have caused damage even against good opponents. Bangladesh will be a team that might surprise a lot of people at the World Cup.

exactly. Taskin,ebadot and shoriful is more than decent attack .Their spinners are also very good shakib,mehidy

 

[Nikhil_cric]

2003 World Cup bowling attack was overrated. Only Akram bowled well and that too with the new ball. Akhtar was wayward and Waqar would trundle after his first spell.

Current attack is much superior

 

[pakfan54588]

Only Saffers can possibly outstrip Pakistan as a pace attack.

Jansen, Nortje, Rabada, Coetzee, Magala, Ngidi. If all these guys are at their best and fittest, its the only attack that can challenge PAK's attack.

SA have been very poor in recent icc events. Their is always first time so lets hope they perform to their potential in this worldcup

 

[AAli98]

Just like SA this bowling attack is good to beat the likes of afgh nz SL etc in bilaterals to pulp.. come a pressurised ICC ko game theyl get taken to the cleaners.

 

[Firebat]

I say again - Pakistan has the best ODI pace attack in the world. Argue with the wall.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1697980638916174178

 

[Marooned]

I say again - Pakistan has the best ODI pace attack in the world. Argue with the wall.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1697980638916174178

It is. Those who think this view is far from truth don't know what they are talking about or just bitter.

 

[MenInG]

First time in Asia Cup (ODI) history that all 10 wickets have been taken by pacers

 

[Ab Fan]

In LOIs, they are definitely up there but in Tests, India has a better pace attack and probably Aus, SA and England too.

 

[daytrader]

The trio is the best but the attack overall could be better if we had a 4th pace option

 

[Bewal Express]

The trio is the best but the attack overall could be better if we had a 4th pace option

Can you play a proper 4th seamer without it leaving the batting exposed against good attacks. Faheem is about much use as a horse with no legs in the grand national

 

[TheSultan]

It may well be the best pace attack. But if you have a captain who refuses to take advantage of it, it doesn’t come to much.

Since (and including) the days of Inzi, our captains have been pathetic with the use of our pace bowlers.

 

[TheSultan]

First time in Asia Cup (ODI) history that all 10 wickets have been taken by pacers

And yet, they didn’t get to bowl their full quota and we got 21 lovely overs of spin instead

 

[daytrader]

Can you play a proper 4th seamer without it leaving the batting exposed against good attacks. Faheem is about much use as a horse with no legs in the grand national

Doesn't have to be a full out proper seamer and could be a part timer. Regardless we need the option. Even India has 4 pacers.

 

[MenInG]

And yet, they didn’t get to bowl their full quota and we got 21 lovely overs of spin instead

That is very very poor.

 

[Bewal Express]

Doesn't have to be a full out proper seamer and could be a part timer. Regardless we need the option. Even India has 4 pacers.

Who though? Outside Faheem we have no options but he isn't very good

 

[daytrader]

Who though? Outside Faheem we have no options but he isn't very good

All we really need is 3-4 overs from a part timer. If the captain can get the bowler to bowl to a plan then that's good enough. Maybe get a couple of overs bowled up front and a couple after wickets or if needed at death to tail enders. If not Faheem then Wasim Jr. Shaheen and Naseem have shown they are good enough with the bat so our tail wouldn't be too bad if we add one of the two

 

[Ummii]

Certainly the best pace attack trio, however this doesn't mean that we end up with the " Best Bowling Attack" We are short of quality spinner or a 4th pace bowler who can break partnership, does anyone notice that after 15 overs most of the time opposition team actually manage to run. So either we can have a 4th bowler which could be Faheem or Wasim in seaming condition. However we will lack every time on spinning tracks.

So Babar and co needs to decide either we can play with this best bowling trio who also do the job what our spinners are supposed to do in the middle of the innings or we have to call for Abrar, he is the only guy currently who can make some difference otherwise we will surely suffer in future by carrying these mediocre spinning attack

 

[controversial_man]

Certainly the best pace attack trio, however this doesn't mean that we end up with the " Best Bowling Attack" We are short of quality spinner or a 4th pace bowler who can break partnership, does anyone notice that after 15 overs most of the time opposition team actually manage to run. So either we can have a 4th bowler which could be Faheem or Wasim in seaming condition. However we will lack every time on spinning tracks.

So Babar and co needs to decide either we can play with this best bowling trio who also do the job what our spinners are supposed to do in the middle of the innings or we have to call for Abrar, he is the only guy currently who can make some difference otherwise we will surely suffer in future by carrying these mediocre spinning attack

maybe babar tried spin option to see how they fare under testing conditions; hopefully he is smart enough to go for a specialised spinner now given how tracks favor spinners in India( atleast the think tank). On top of this, I am not sure pitches will be like this where ball is moving around so this pace attack has yet to be tested on docile pitches where there is no swing or seam on offer.

It is great that asia cup is happening right now. It is better to idemtify gaps now and find quick replacemnts only if Inzi is taking notes and is fully awaken to notice these shortcomings

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Who though? Outside Faheem we have no options but he isn't very good

i think he can be a good option in srilanka.. his high arm action allows him to get some extra bounce which can cause problem to some batters.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Play Shaheen as a bowling all rounder, get Ihsanullah in for Nawaz.

Shaheen
Naseem
Rauf
Ihsanullah

Lawd have mercy

 

[YousafTheBeast]

Mouthwatering this.

Has to happen, Naseem, Rauf and Shaheen can all hold a bat, those 3 can make up 1 batsman.

 

[Inswing]

Has to happen, Naseem, Rauf and Shaheen can all hold a bat, those 3 can make up 1 batsman.

I hope sanity will prevail

 

[Cricket Warrior]

I would undoubtedly give a very high rating to the bowling attack in 2023. They possess pace, swing, control, and an added dose of aggression. This trio has effectively covered all the necessary aspects.

 

[mominsaigol]

Play Shaheen as a bowling all rounder, get Ihsanullah in for Nawaz.

Shaheen
Naseem
Rauf
Ihsanullah

Lawd have mercy

No lol, 3 pacers are fine. Our problem is the spin department.

We need quality spinners and we don't have any. Shadab only functions on spinning wickets, nawaz is terrible, agha is decent but not full time.

We need someone like abrar who's shown magic in tests.

 

[Third Man]

Play Shaheen as a bowling all rounder, get Ihsanullah in for Nawaz.

Shaheen
Naseem
Rauf
Ihsanullah

Lawd have mercy

I can definitely get behind this. Makes sense to back your strength. Forget about batting at #8. You'll rarely need it if this bowling attack bowls to its potential.

 

[YousafTheBeast]

No lol, 3 pacers are fine. Our problem is the spin department.

We need quality spinners and we don't have any. Shadab only functions on spinning wickets, nawaz is terrible, agha is decent but not full time.

We need someone like abrar who's shown magic in tests.

Bite the bullet, Shadab cannot bowl more than 5 overs, Agha and Ifti can make up the other 5.

40 overs of pace is pace yaar. The opposition will be bowled out or 5-6 down way before the spinners even come on so it won’t matter if we have a quality spinner or not.

I can definitely get behind this. Makes sense to back your strength. Forget about batting at #8. You'll rarely need it if this bowling attack bowls to its potential.

Exactly, besides you have to back your top 4-5 to bat majority of the overs.

 

[TheSultan]

Play Shaheen as a bowling all rounder, get Ihsanullah in for Nawaz.

Shaheen
Naseem
Rauf
Ihsanullah

Lawd have mercy

I like this a lot

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Play Shaheen as a bowling all rounder, get Ihsanullah in for Nawaz.

Shaheen
Naseem
Rauf
Ihsanullah

Lawd have mercy

i think we have to go with options which are available .. so i will go with Faheem as a 4th fast bowler

 

[pakistani pride]

Can you play a proper 4th seamer without it leaving the batting exposed against good attacks. Faheem is about much use as a horse with no legs in the grand national

Of course we can. Zaman Khan should be in the LOIs. He can bat a bit as well. Its been so obvious we need a 4th pacer. Yet captain clueless keeps playing average spinners.

 

[Ahmed216]

They need to ensure they always play a 4th seamer against India. India play spin well specially our spinners are usually toothless.
Need to play to our strength

 

[YousafTheBeast]

i think we have to go with options which are available .. so i will go with Faheem as a 4th fast bowler

Faheem won’t get you more than 20-30 runs. Shaheen can get you 20 runs.

Shaheen is a far superior bowler. Has to be the best fast bowling all rounder we have right now. Aamir Jamal is a question mark.

 

[Marooned]

Play Shaheen as a bowling all rounder, get Ihsanullah in for Nawaz.

Shaheen
Naseem
Rauf
Ihsanullah

Lawd have mercy

Make this happen atleast once!!

 

[mominsaigol]

Bite the bullet, Shadab cannot bowl more than 5 overs, Agha and Ifti can make up the other 5.

40 overs of pace is pace yaar. The opposition will be bowled out or 5-6 down way before the spinners even come on so it won’t matter if we have a quality spinner or not.



Exactly, besides you have to back your top 4-5 to bat majority of the overs.

I want 4 pacers and 2 spinners like India as well, I agree.

Ideally I want Zaman Khan, Haris Rauf, Shaheen and Naseem to bowl with shadab and Abrar as the spinners., it's just I don't know how to fit all of them in without weakening the batting.

Zaman Khan is a must, over insanullah, Faheem, waseem etc.

Zaman is a perfect death overs and middle overs bowlers. His line and length + those perfect dipping yorkers are ideal, while shaheen, Naseem can take over opening the innings and haris can bowl here and their as wicket taking options.

Abrar is a solid spinner amd shadab can hold his own.

But again our batting also needs saud, haris, Abdullah and tayyab incorporated as well if we are to improve our batting.

My issue with inzi and pcb as a whole is that we have excellent and upcoming players but we still stick with tried and tested mediocre players. Idk what nawaz, faheem, usama have done to merit a place. Usama has zero variation just standard predictable leg spin, Faheem keeps bowling the same ball every single time and nawaz is bits and pieces, he only really contributed once with a 40 of 20 against India, the rest of his bowling is mostly against minnows or if the pitch is for bowling only.

 

[Devadwal]

Definitely they are the best, they just need quality spinners to support them

 

[mominsaigol]

Make this happen atleast once!!

We need Zaman Khan, not insanullah.

Insanullah is fast and if he had the line and length that naseem has, he'd be the best bowler in the world, no one can handle 150kph deliveries bowled at perfect line, length and swing.

But sadly I watched him and he has terrible line and length and gets tonked, he's too busy focusing on not delivering a no ball and looking at the crease rather then focusing on actually aiming properly.

Zaman Khan however is a killer death over bowler and a solid middle over bowler. He doesn't swing as much but he gets the LBW and consistently bowls unplayable dipping yorkers. I would say he's better then shaheen, naseem and Haris at death bowling.

Only problem is, he can't swing so he's not a good option to open the bowling but we already have naseem and shaheen for that. Zaman khan bowling in the middle will solve our problem. India has the right approach, 4 pacers and 2 spinners only.

 

[hassan918]

The current pace attack is right up there with the 2003 bowling attack. The main difference is that all 3 bowlers in the current attack are young and probably at the top of their game while in 2003 Waqar and Wasim were at the end of their careers.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

We need Zaman Khan, not insanullah.

Insanullah is fast and if he had the line and length that naseem has, he'd be the best bowler in the world, no one can handle 150kph deliveries bowled at perfect line, length and swing.

But sadly I watched him and he has terrible line and length and gets tonked, he's too busy focusing on not delivering a no ball and looking at the crease rather then focusing on actually aiming properly.

Zaman Khan however is a killer death over bowler and a solid middle over bowler. He doesn't swing as much but he gets the LBW and consistently bowls unplayable dipping yorkers. I would say he's better then shaheen, naseem and Haris at death bowling.

Only problem is, he can't swing so he's not a good option to open the bowling but we already have naseem and shaheen for that. Zaman khan bowling in the middle will solve our problem. India has the right approach, 4 pacers and 2 spinners only.

its too early pick zaman as a 4th seamer... i think we should go for a bowling all rounder like faheem instead of a genuine fast bowler.

 

[Marooned]

We need Zaman Khan, not insanullah.

Insanullah is fast and if he had the line and length that naseem has, he'd be the best bowler in the world, no one can handle 150kph deliveries bowled at perfect line, length and swing.

But sadly I watched him and he has terrible line and length and gets tonked, he's too busy focusing on not delivering a no ball and looking at the crease rather then focusing on actually aiming properly.

Zaman Khan however is a killer death over bowler and a solid middle over bowler. He doesn't swing as much but he gets the LBW and consistently bowls unplayable dipping yorkers. I would say he's better then shaheen, naseem and Haris at death bowling.

Only problem is, he can't swing so he's not a good option to open the bowling but we already have naseem and shaheen for that. Zaman khan bowling in the middle will solve our problem. India has the right approach, 4 pacers and 2 spinners only.

I like Zaman's ability to remain ice cool under pressure and his accurate yorkers.

But Ihsanullah is a level above. He's the scariest fast bowler in Pakistan. Your assessment is absurdly harsh. He was unplayable at times in psl and then vs Afghanistan. Got smashed on a flat pancake. He isn't really that raw either. He's more refined than what Hasnain, and Rauf were before they made their debuts.

Give him the support Rauf got (initially he bowled lot of garbage) and he will do better than Rauf, and I rate Rauf's contributions.

 

[mominsaigol]

its too early pick zaman as a 4th seamer... i think we should go for a bowling all rounder like faheem instead of a genuine fast bowler.

First of, Faheem isn't an all rounder, calling him one is a joke, naseem bats better then faheem lol. I wouldn't call a dude with an average of 10-11 an all rounder. Shahdab you can call one, not faheem.

Secondly how is it early when zaman proved his worth far more then ihsanullah in the NZ series?

Zaman doesn't struggle with line and length because his malinga like action means consistency. Also zaman Khan bowls in the lower 140's. His dipping yorkers sometimes touch 145 even.

Ihsanullah lacks line and length, same problem as umran malik.

 

[mominsaigol]

I like Zaman's ability to remain ice cool under pressure and his accurate yorkers.

But Ihsanullah is a level above. He's the scariest fast bowler in Pakistan. Your assessment is absurdly harsh. He was unplayable at times in psl and then vs Afghanistan. Got smashed on a flat pancake. He isn't really that raw either. He's more refined than what Hasnain, and Rauf were before they made their debuts.

Give him the support Rauf got (initially he bowled lot of garbage) and he will do better than Rauf, and I rate Rauf's contributions.

Zaman outperformed ihsanullah in the NZ series. Idc much about psl because I've seen bowlers like husnain do wonders for quetta gladiators and then suck in international.

Ihsanullah lacks line and length and was the weakest bowler in the NZ series. Zaman Khan got wickets, was brilliant in the death and replicated his psl performance. That's all that's needed.

Lastly Ihsanullah is a new ball bowler due to swing and Seam. We don't need him if we have naseem and shaheen. Haris and zaman are suppose to be middle overs and specialist Death over bowlers usually bowling anywhere from over 7 to over 50 in bits and pieces for wicket taking.

So why not use zaman?

 

[Marooned]

Zaman outperformed ihsanullah in the NZ series. Idc much about psl because I've seen bowlers like husnain do wonders for quetta gladiators and then suck in international.

Ihsanullah lacks line and length and was the weakest bowler in the NZ series. Zaman Khan got wickets, was brilliant in the death and replicated his psl performance. That's all that's needed.

Lastly Ihsanullah is a new ball bowler due to swing and Seam. We don't need him if we have naseem and shaheen. Haris and zaman are suppose to be middle overs and specialist Death over bowlers usually bowling anywhere from over 7 to over 50 in bits and pieces for wicket taking.

So why not use zaman?

Ihsanullah has a much higher ceiling than Zaman is what I'm saying. Give them both opportunities.

I won't mind Zaman in the squad right now.


Ihsanullah isn't just a new ball bowler. His strength isn't swing and seam. His strength his hard length/ back of the length balls which rise very awkwardly. That at 150k. The kind of bowler who hits helmets and intimidates.

He got 2 games vs Nz on very unforgiving tracks. You can't form a judgement based on that. Look at his ingredients.

 

[mominsaigol]

Ihsanullah has a much higher ceiling than Zaman is what I'm saying. Give them both opportunities.

I won't mind Zaman in the squad right now.


Ihsanullah isn't just a new ball bowler. His strength isn't swing and seam. His strength his hard length/ back of the length balls which rise very awkwardly. That at 150k. The kind of bowler who hits helmets and intimidates.

He got 2 games vs Nz on very unforgiving tracks. You can't form a judgement based on that. Look at his ingredients.

I agree with ihsanullah having a higher ceiling then Zaman.

Ihsanullah mostly bowled with the new ball and his best figure 5 for 12 was with the new ball mostly.

He got tonked by haris Rauf and other tailenders on multiple occasions. Even in the psl he just bowls pace of 150kph and he is not consistent even in the psl. His hard length balls are unplayable I agree but he can't do it consistently.

And those tracks weren't that unforgiving, naseem didn't struggle at all, shaheen was coming back from injury and regained his rhythm by the 4th odi, haris was expensive but kept taking wickets which is usually the case with haris even today, haris will get hit but he's a match winner and a partenrship breaker usually.

Insanullah is completly inconsistent with line and length and is basically our version of umran malik, both bowlers have express pace but can't consistently bowl line and length. Someone like that can either be an assest or a liability depending on the day. That's way too risky, we already have that in the form of fakhar, we don't need that in our pace department.

Atm insanullah does not replace shaheen or naseem at opening, nor does he replace haris at wicket breaking nor can he be consistently relied on for breaking partnerships.

Zaman Khan however will complement haris extremely well due to haris being unpredictable with variations and zaman Khan being consistent at cramping batsmen for room.

 

[mominsaigol]

Of course we can. Zaman Khan should be in the LOIs. He can bat a bit as well. Its been so obvious we need a 4th pacer. Yet captain clueless keeps playing average spinners.

Yup, Zaman Khan will be a killer edition.

 

[Third Man]

I like Zaman's ability to remain ice cool under pressure and his accurate yorkers.

But Ihsanullah is a level above. He's the scariest fast bowler in Pakistan. Your assessment is absurdly harsh. He was unplayable at times in psl and then vs Afghanistan. Got smashed on a flat pancake. He isn't really that raw either. He's more refined than what Hasnain, and Rauf were before they made their debuts.

Give him the support Rauf got (initially he bowled lot of garbage) and he will do better than Rauf, and I rate Rauf's contributions.

I completely agree with this. Ihsanullah is a lot more refined than Rauf was when he debuted. He just needs to hit the hard length more often and use the short ball more as a surprise ball than a stock one. This is where Morne Morkel needs to do some work and I think he will. His ceiling is higher than Rauf's in all formats of the game and I'm also a fan of Rauf's efforts.

Zaman is a good bowler but he is frankly a one-dimensional bowler more suited to t20 cricket. I'm sure he'll get his chances too and he should but Ihsanullah is very obviously a much more exciting prospect. I even rate Arshad Iqbal above him when it comes to tests and ODIs.

 

[Nado_]

What’s the situation with Ihsanullah