Pakistan has the best ODI pace attack in the world

[MenInG]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1702395197282304321

 

[Bhaijaan]

Siraj, Bumrah, Shami, Kuldeep would have something to say about that

 

[Savak]

Siraj, Bumrah, Shami, Kuldeep would have something to say about that

These bowlers have won India two test series in Australia. Unless any Pakistani pace bowling attack does the same, they should shut it.

 

[Professionalismandflair]

Pak has the biggest (misplaced) egos in the world

 

[mominsaigol]

To be fair, minus this Sri lanka collapse I still stand by what I have said before.

Bumrah > Naseem > Siraj > Rauf > Shaheen > Other pacers in India.

In terms of spin kuldeep > Indian spinners >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pakistani spinners

 

[Mamoon]

With Shaheen, Naseem and Haris, we surely have the best ODI pace attack but not when we have Shaheen, Zaman and Wasim as our Pace trio.

Bumrah is comfortably better than all Pakistani pacers. Siraj is probably on par if not better.

It is a myth that Shaheen, Naseem and Rauf trio is better than whatever India can put up. Pakistani bowlers turn into kittens when attacked.

 

[kron]

To be fair, minus this Sri lanka collapse I still stand by what I have said before.

Bumrah > Naseem > Siraj > Rauf > Shaheen > Other pacers in India.

In terms of spin kuldeep > Indian spinners >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pakistani spinners

I put shaheen on par with siraj. Agree with the rest.

 

[kron]

With Shaheen, Naseem and Haris, we surely have the best ODI pace attack but not when we have Shaheen, Zaman and Wasim as our Pace trio.

Wasim jnr vs hardik as 4th option is the decider. Wasim is the better bowler in my opinion.

 

[sweep_shot]

I think neither Pakistan nor India have the best attack.

I think both South Africa and Australia have superior pace attacks.

Again, I am referring to full-strength attacks during ICC events (when teams actually take things seriously).

 

[Mockingbird]

I think neither Pakistan nor India have the best attack.

I think both South Africa and Australia have superior pace attacks.

Again, I am referring to full-strength attacks during ICC events (when teams actually take things seriously).

You have to look at the overall attack in a WC in the subcontinent, not just pace. If you consider spin as well, India has the best bowling squad in the WC.

 

[sweep_shot]

You have to look at the overall attack in a WC in the subcontinent, not just pace. If you consider spin as well, India has the best bowling squad in the WC.

Thread is about "best pace attack". Not overall attack.

Even if you consider overall attack, Australia is up there (Zampa is a great ODI spinner).

 

[Savak]

Pakistani bowlers need to learn the value of patience and bowling test match lengths, putting 6 balls on the same spot ie on and around offstump like Bhumra and Siraj do.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Thread is about "best pace attack". Not overall attack.

Even if you consider overall attack, Australia is up there (Zampa is a great ODI spinner).

yeah that is why he went for 110 for 10 overs in the match against South Africa

 

[jnaveen1980]

India has the best fast bowling average in the last couple of years all over the world and in India. Shami, Siraj, Bumrah, Pandya. All 4 can bowl at 140k and All 4 can swing. Pandya can bowl surprise bouncer too. Prasidh is another 140k bowler who generates steep bounce of a good length. If there is a hint of swing India is going to run riot against any side. One team that can be just as good with new ball will be Boult & Co. They can destroy top orders if the conditions are conducive. But Southee is not at the level of Boult. Boult is in a different league. Henry is better than Southee. But not as good as Boult.

 

[Rafay586]

For me we had Best Pace Attack without backup, We are struggling to find out Naseem's Backup; PCB should work on Bench Strength as well as work Load Management. Even against Afg before Asia Cup (Players came from Leagues with a lot of stress) Shaheen Played 3 marches, Naseem and Haris both 2 games each. #NO_Planning

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Commenting on India's bowling display, legend Sunil Gavaskar hailed Jasprit Bumrah for complementing Siraj's aggressive display. Comparing India's new ball attack to Pakistan, he also labelled Siraj as a bowler 'who gives everything'.

"Honestly, I can't recall when we had something like that. But it just tells you the quality of the new ball attack, that India have. A lot of times, people talk about Pakistan's new ball attack. But I think this Indian new ball attack, with Bumrah coming back. Bumrah might not have got the wickets, but he kept the pressure on. Don't forget, we have someone like Mohammed Shami, who is not playing in the XI. So it just tells you that the reserve India has, as far as pace bowling is concerned", he said, while speaking to India Today.

 

[gazza619]

Siraj, Bumrah, Shami, Kuldeep would have something to say about that

Looks one formidable and fresh attack

The big plus is that their players havent been roaming around the planet playing mickey mouse leagues

 

[Technics 1210]

Pakistan did not have the best bowling attack in 1992, and no, Wasim Akram anointed his status AFTER 1992 WC final. Plus the great Waqar Younis was injured and out of the 92 WC.

Point being you do not need the best bowling attack or batting aggression to win a tournament because it is all about the balance.

 

[sweep_shot]

yeah that is why he went for 110 for 10 overs in the match against South Africa

One bad game can happen. South Africa isn't exactly a great place for spinners.

Zampa has done very well in ODI over the years.

 

[TheSultan]

This is why we need to stop this nonsense best X, best Y, best Z. It makes no difference to anything.

Babar “best batsman” comes to nothing when you choke in the big games.

No1 Ranking - pointless if you can’t maintain longer than a few weeks and it’s been achieved in non important matches

Best bowling attack - comes to nothing when you have injuries.

Yes Shaheen, Naseem and Rauf. Are we happy with their recent performances yes, but just because after a long time we have a competitive bowling attack, what’s the need to jump on the “best” bandwagon. Especially when our bench strength is so bare and all 3 of our bowlers are so injury prone along with all the reserves.

 

[kron]

I think neither Pakistan nor India have the best attack.

I think both South Africa and Australia have superior pace attacks.

Again, I am referring to full-strength attacks during ICC events (when teams actually take things seriously).

I am not too convinced with aus anymore. Cummins has been average in odi. Starc is older. Hazelwood is quality. Rest haven't shown enough application


South africa I agree. Could be the best pace attack. Pace only
Nortje rabada jansen would be amongst the best. Followed by aus india pak in no particular order.

SA also have coetze to come off bench and ngidi who is a trundler these days but can swing it.


Other teams don't have this 4 th option like SA.

Pak has rauf as the third. Wasim jnr would be the best 4th option and he has pace but not the same quality as a coetzee

Same with india, shami is past his best. Not the same bowler and their 4th bowling option would be prasidh or the kid from rajasthan. They may be good but not developed yet.

Australia's 4th option is poor. Neser, Sean Abbott is not someone who can be an intimidating quick.


They have that one quick who could potentially play but he is more suited for t20 by the looks of it.

 

[kron]

India has the best fast bowling average in the last couple of years all over the world and in India. Shami, Siraj, Bumrah, Pandya. All 4 can bowl at 140k and All 4 can swing. Pandya can bowl surprise bouncer too. Prasidh is another 140k bowler who generates steep bounce of a good length. If there is a hint of swing India is going to run riot against any side. One team that can be just as good with new ball will be Boult & Co. They can destroy top orders if the conditions are conducive. But Southee is not at the level of Boult. Boult is in a different league. Henry is better than Southee. But not as good as Boult.

India's problem is number 9 can't bat. Weak tail batting. So they can't accommodate all pacers. Sa can somewhat.
Pakistan tail batting is much better.

Australia too.

 

[Hitman]

Pakistan did not have the best bowling attack in 1992, and no, Wasim Akram anointed his status AFTER 1992 WC final. Plus the great Waqar Younis was injured and out of the 92 WC.

Point being you do not need the best bowling attack or batting aggression to win a tournament because it is all about the balance.

We saw what that 'great' did against India in the 1996 and 2003 World Cup.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

India's problem is number 9 can't bat. Weak tail batting. So they can't accommodate all pacers. Sa can somewhat.
Pakistan tail batting is much better.

Australia too.

it doesnt matter ur tail can bat or not, if batting is not firing up from the top order so last 2 or 3 cant do any wonders.

 

[gazza619]

We saw what that 'great' did against India in the 1996 and 2003 World Cup.

To be fair the real Waqar was finished by 1995. This list below shows his top 20 performances in test cricket.

 

[Hitman]

To be fair the real Waqar was finished by 1995. This list below shows his top 20 performances in test cricket.View attachment 136522

As expected, Australia missing, against whom he averages 34 at a SR of 63.

 

[jnaveen1980]

India's problem is number 9 can't bat. Weak tail batting. So they can't accommodate all pacers. Sa can somewhat.
Pakistan tail batting is much better.

Australia too.

Yes. That is why they go with balance of Thakur. His only problem is economy as he can bowl some absolute drose. But he has better numbers than we think. The thing about Indian attack is 4 of these guys are very good Test match bowlers as well. Thakur has incredible Test numbers.

Last 2 years Fast bowlers against regular nations (except Afghanistan). Thakur beats Rauf in every category. Strike rate, average, wickets, Economy.

https://imgur.com/5GWPEYz

 

[kron]

Yes. That is why they go with balance of Thakur. His only problem is economy as he can bowl some absolute drose. But he has better numbers than we think. The thing about Indian attack is 4 of these guys are very good Test match bowlers as well. Thakur has incredible Test numbers.

Last 2 years Fast bowlers against regular nations (except Afghanistan). Thakur beats Rauf in every category. Strike rate, average, wickets, Economy.

https://imgur.com/5GWPEYz

Do you believe indian pace attack, just pace is better than SA?

Bumrah obviously is better than nortje

Siraj better than rabada as of now

But here is where SA holds a huge edge.
Jansen despite poor numbers in odi can bat and at this stage would be better than an old shami.


Coetze is better than thakur. India can't afford to have passengers with the bat like prasidh so here is where the edge goes to SA clearly.

 

[kron]

We saw what that 'great' did against India in the 1996 and 2003 World Cup.

Better team doesn't always win. Pressure situations india dominated at the time cause they were underdogs.

Now we see roles reversed post 2011

India can't handle pressure because they are expected to win given bcci's coffers.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Do you believe indian pace attack, just pace is better than SA?

Bumrah obviously is better than nortje

Siraj better than rabada as of now

But here is where SA holds a huge edge.
Jansen despite poor numbers in odi can bat and at this stage would be better than an old shami.


Coetze is better than thakur. India can't afford to have passengers with the bat like prasidh so here is where the edge goes to SA clearly.

Jansen in SA is not the same as Jansen in Subcontinent. Can't recall him having the same success. 3 seasons I PL. Was not impressive. Also in the one dayer he was thrashed. He is too raw to be hyped. You need variations to survive on different types of tracks. Even guys like Arshdeep, Chahar outbowled him in helpful conditions in T20 series. In T20 internationals in 3 matches in India his economy was close to 12. He is nowhere close to Shami.

Coetze who? He has too little sample and even that sample is not that impressive. We don't even know how he will do well in India. Their full strength side was massacred by Indian second string team in the ODi series. ODI bowling is not just about raw pace. I will put them below New zealand attack as they have a vastly more experienced attack. Australia ofcourse backed by supreme fielders will be a potent force. But they are not going to run through sides like Indian bowlers have done in recent times unless Starc is having an extremely good day.

 

[kron]

Jansen in SA is not the same as Jansen in Subcontinent. Can't recall him having the same success. 3 seasons I PL. Was not impressive. Also in the one dayer he was thrashed. He is too raw to be hyped. You need variations to survive on different types of tracks. Even guys like Arshdeep, Chahar outbowled him in helpful conditions in T20 series. In T20 internationals in 3 matches in India his economy was close to 12. He is nowhere close to Shami.

Coetze who? He has too little sample and even that sample is not that impressive. We don't even know how he will do well in India. Their full strength side was massacred by Indian second string team in the ODi series. ODI bowling is not just about raw pace. I will put them below New zealand attack as they have a vastly more experienced attack. Australia ofcourse backed by supreme fielders will be a potent force. But they are not going to run through sides like Indian bowlers have done in recent times unless Starc is having an extremely good day.

dint SA beat india with a string team at their home too 3 0 ? not too long ago ?
coetze is a top pacer in their domestics.
his pace and bounce can trouble batsmen. not sure about effectiveness in asia but his raw pace can be a handful. moreso than thakur.

 

[jnaveen1980]

dint SA beat india with a string team at their home too 3 0 ? not too long ago ?
coetze is a top pacer in their domestics.
his pace and bounce can trouble batsmen. not sure about effectiveness in asia but his raw pace can be a handful. moreso than thakur.

None of the bowlers you mentioned made any impact. India didn't have SHami, Siraj. Bumrah bowled well. Prasidh played one where he took 3 for 59. SA's best bowler was AL Phehlukwayo with 6 wickets mostly gifted wickets by Indians. They didn't win because of fast bowling. Shamsi/Maharaja were better than Chahal/Ashwin. Also KL Rahul's dud captaincy. But in India they lost handsomely.

 

[kron]

None of the bowlers you mentioned made any impact. India didn't have SHami, Siraj. Bumrah bowled well. Prasidh played one where he took 3 for 59. SA's best bowler was AL Phehlukwayo with 6 wickets mostly gifted wickets by Indians. They didn't win because of fast bowling. Shamsi/Maharaja were better than Chahal/Ashwin. Also KL Rahul's dud captaincy. But in India they lost handsomely.

Right. Would you say SA holds the edge in bouncy wickets of SA ? What about in England?


Between Indian pace attack and SA.

I dont believe india holds the edge in these conditions. Australia has bounce but no lateral movement. Their natural height being a plus in these 2 specific conditions. Possibly in nz I dont see any difference there either. Sa holds the edge.
In Asia and west indies I agree. In Australia it's even. Elsewhere I believe SA holds the edge due to their 3 Rd and 4th bowling options and height discrepancy.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Right. Would you say SA holds the edge in bouncy wickets of SA ? What about in England?


Between Indian pace attack and SA.

I dont believe india holds the edge in these conditions. Australia has bounce but no lateral movement. Their natural height being a plus in these 2 specific conditions. Possibly in nz I dont see any difference there either. Sa holds the edge.
In Asia and west indies I agree. In Australia it's even. Elsewhere I believe SA holds the edge due to their 3 Rd and 4th bowling options and height discrepancy.

Team	Matches	Wickets	Average	ER	SR
New zealand	9	23	37.95	6.60	34.4
India	6	22	20.54	5.05	24.3
Ireland	5	18	32.83	5.94	33.1
Bangladesh	5	14	32.07	5.71	33.6
South Africa	4	11	24.81	6.82	21.8

Performance of overseas pace bowlers in England in the last 2 years. If anything India can be more dangerous in these conditions. Indian bowlers fly under the radar because they don't take part in every goddamn league cricket in the world. So they don't grab headlines often.

 

[kron]

Team	Matches	Wickets	Average	ER	SR
New zealand	9	23	37.95	6.60	34.4
India	6	22	20.54	5.05	24.3
Ireland	5	18	32.83	5.94	33.1
Bangladesh	5	14	32.07	5.71	33.6
South Africa	4	11	24.81	6.82	21.8

Performance of overseas pace bowlers in England in the last 2 years. If anything India can be more dangerous in these conditions. Indian bowlers fly under the radar because they don't take part in every goddamn league cricket in the world. So they don't grab headlines often.

Why filter it to just 2 years though? What about for the last 5 6 years or since kohli started as captain.

 

[Hitman]

Better team doesn't always win. Pressure situations india dominated at the time cause they were underdogs.

Now we see roles reversed post 2011

India can't handle pressure because they are expected to win given bcci's coffers.

I'm not speaking about your team's performance. I'm speaking of his individual performances in those matches.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Why filter it to just 2 years though? What about for the last 5 6 years or since kohli started as captain.

Since you asked 5 year window in England performance by overseas pacers

Team	Matches	Wickets	Avge	ER	SR
India	12	76	23.07	5.09	27.1
New Zealand	14	97	28.20	5.35	31.5
South Africa	12	58	28.91	5.50	31.5
Australia	13	80	29.87	5.42	33.0
West Indies	12	51	35.94	6.05	35.6
Bangladesh	8	53	36.47	6.53	33.4
Pakistan	16	74	37.00	6.41	34.5
Afghanistan	9	23	43.52	6.30	41.4
Sri Lanka	16	34	47.32	5.73	49.4

With the amount of injuries 2 year window is a reasonable window. Coetze, jansen were not even part of the SA set up 2 years back. There is this insane amount of fetish for headline grabbing fast bowlers rather than bowlers who actually produce results. Trent Boult gets less hype compared to Haris Rauf.

In the last 2 years. among top countries 15 times team got bowled out for 150 or less.

Against India 6 times
Against ENgland 3 times
Against Australia 3 times
Against NZ 1
Against BD 1
Against Zimbabwe 1

Most of the time Indian seamers did the damage. Honestly i don't mind Indian pacers flying under radar as there will be less pressure on them. OFcourse they will have their bad days much like every other fast bowler has in modern cricket. Won't make them any worse.

 

[kron]

Since you asked 5 year window in England performance by overseas pacers

Team	Matches	Wickets	Avge	ER	SR
India	12	76	23.07	5.09	27.1
New Zealand	14	97	28.20	5.35	31.5
South Africa	12	58	28.91	5.50	31.5
Australia	13	80	29.87	5.42	33.0
West Indies	12	51	35.94	6.05	35.6
Bangladesh	8	53	36.47	6.53	33.4
Pakistan	16	74	37.00	6.41	34.5
Afghanistan	9	23	43.52	6.30	41.4
Sri Lanka	16	34	47.32	5.73	49.4

With the amount of injuries 2 year window is a reasonable window. Coetze, jansen were not even part of the SA set up 2 years back. There is this insane amount of fetish for headline grabbing fast bowlers rather than bowlers who actually produce results. Trent Boult gets less hype compared to Haris Rauf.

In the last 2 years. among top countries 15 times team got bowled out for 150 or less.

Against India 6 times
Against ENgland 3 times
Against Australia 3 times
Against NZ 1
Against BD 1
Against Zimbabwe 1

Most of the time Indian seamers did the damage. Honestly i don't mind Indian pacers flying under radar as there will be less pressure on them. OFcourse they will have their bad days much like every other fast bowler has in modern cricket. Won't make them any worse.

thats surprising. looks like indian batting and poor spinners let them down in england then.

 

[jnaveen1980]

thats surprising. looks like indian batting and poor spinners let them down in england then.

what? Why do you think India didn't do well in England? India finished the top of the table in 2019 world cup ahead of England/Australia/SA/NZ. They just had one of those 15 bad minutes in the semi final. Even there Chahal was the worst bowler. India played that wicketless wonder Bhuvi. Even in T20 India beat England 2 series in a row.

 

[kron]

what? Why do you think India didn't do well in England? India finished the top of the table in 2019 world cup ahead of England/Australia/SA/NZ. They just had one of those 15 bad minutes in the semi final. Even there Chahal was the worst bowler. India played that wicketless wonder Bhuvi. Even in T20 India beat England 2 series in a row.

I know in tests India have a good record along with Aus and on par with SA. Dint think they were this good in terms of numbers for odi.bhuvaneshqar kumar seemed average and innocuous every time I have seen him bowl. Shami and bumrah are class. Their third bowler always falters. 4th being pandya wasn't great till about now. Only recently pandya has lookes good. Besides pandya onlt seems to perform at his best vs us.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I know in tests India have a good record along with Aus and on par with SA. Dint think they were this good in terms of numbers for odi.bhuvaneshqar kumar seemed average and innocuous every time I have seen him bowl. Shami and bumrah are class. Their third bowler always falters. 4th being pandya wasn't great till about now. Only recently pandya has lookes good. Besides pandya onlt seems to perform at his best vs us.

Bhuvi is crap as he focuses more on economy. Siraj's rise has made this attack even more potent. Shami always had terrific ODI numbers. Only thing India lacks is a left arm seamer that can bring the ball back into right handers. Arshdeep in a year or two will fill that role. He already showed some sparks. But he is an unfinished product. Nevertheless Indian batsmen get more hype than Indian pacers almost always. Kohli was the first guy who gave up his first class tickets to fast bowlers and he took the economy. You can see Rohit fan club, Kohli fan club even Gill fan club. But you will hardly find a fan club for Bumrah, Siraj, Shami. Suryakumar yadav has more sponsors than Indian fast bowlers.It is the way it is.

 

[pratiktc]

To assess depth and also just for fun, let's consider what each team's pace lineup would look like if they lost their 3 frontline pacers

India - Prasidh, Bhuvi, Mukesh
Aus - Abbott, Neser, Spencer Johnson
Pak - Zaman, Wasim Jr, Hasan Ali
NZ - Southee, Milne, Jamieson/Lister
Eng - Willey, Topley, Gus Atkinson
SA - Magala, Coetzee, Pretorius


Who's got the best pace bench?

 

[kron]

To assess depth and also just for fun, let's consider what each team's pace lineup would look like if they lost their 3 frontline pacers

India - Prasidh, Bhuvi, Mukesh
Aus - Abbott, Neser, Spencer Johnson
Pak - Zaman, Wasim Jr, Hasan Ali
NZ - Southee, Milne, Jamieson/Lister
Eng - Willey, Topley, Gus Atkinson
SA - Magala, Coetzee, Pretorius


Who's got the best pace bench?

based on list, must be england for sure.
batting depth and variety
1) england
2) nz based on list
3) pakistan india on par
4) Aus
5) SA magala and pretorious suck

 

[kron]

To assess depth and also just for fun, let's consider what each team's pace lineup would look like if they lost their 3 frontline pacers

India - Prasidh, Bhuvi, Mukesh
Aus - Abbott, Neser, Spencer Johnson
Pak - Zaman, Wasim Jr, Hasan Ali
NZ - Southee, Milne, Jamieson/Lister
Eng - Willey, Topley, Gus Atkinson
SA - Magala, Coetzee, Pretorius


Who's got the best pace bench?

what is england's first team bowling lineup if bench is so good?
wood
willey ?
woakes
i think thats their starting lineup

in my opinion, topley should play over woakes.

 

[pratiktc]

what is england's first team bowling lineup if bench is so good?
wood
willey ?
woakes
i think thats their starting lineup

in my opinion, topley should play over woakes.

Woakes, Wood and Curran are their first choice seamers. Rest of 20 overs will be made up by Rashid, Moeen, Livingstone and Root

England don't care about bowling teams out. With Woakes at 9 they fancy chasing any target down.

Topley will likely be rotated for Wood in tournament

 

[Bhaijaan]

Looks one formidable and fresh attack

The big plus is that their players havent been roaming around the planet playing mickey mouse leagues

It’s clear to me, on a regular basis our bowling attack is better.

Potentially speaking, Pakistan’s pace attack is another level.

 

[jnaveen1980]

To assess depth and also just for fun, let's consider what each team's pace lineup would look like if they lost their 3 frontline pacers

India - Prasidh, Bhuvi, Mukesh
Aus - Abbott, Neser, Spencer Johnson
Pak - Zaman, Wasim Jr, Hasan Ali
NZ - Southee, Milne, Jamieson/Lister
Eng - Willey, Topley, Gus Atkinson
SA - Magala, Coetzee, Pretorius


Who's got the best pace bench?

That is not first choice. There is no way India will be going with Mukesh. His career is pretty much over in ODI. Apart from Prasidh India should go with Kuldeep sen, Harshit Rana, if Chahar is fit Deepak Chahara. Actually Umran played 10 matches. Although he took 13 wickets in 10 games he was a tad expensive. But he still bullied Shakib Al hasan with raw pace. He broke his arm or elbow. He was never the same after that.

 

[kron]

That is not first choice. There is no way India will be going with Mukesh. His career is pretty much over in ODI. Apart from Prasidh India should go with Kuldeep sen, Harshit Rana, if Chahar is fit Deepak Chahara. Actually Umran played 10 matches. Although he took 13 wickets in 10 games he was a tad expensive. But he still bullied Shakib Al hasan with raw pace. He broke his arm or elbow. He was never the same after that.

Who is kuldeep and rana? Their first class averages seem pretty good. Kuldeep has good odi stats by the looks of it.

Are they genuine pace or like medium pace?

 

[jnaveen1980]

Who is kuldeep and rana? Their first class averages seem pretty good. Kuldeep has good odi stats by the looks of it.

Are they genuine pace or like medium pace?

Both are genuine pace bowlers. Kuldeep hit 146k very skiddy and can surprise with steep bounce. India has obsession with trundlers under Rahul Dravid. India was going in the right direction. Suddenly this trundler fetish started under Dravid.

 

[kron]

Both are genuine pace bowlers. Kuldeep hit 146k very skiddy and can surprise with steep bounce. India has obsession with trundlers under Rahul Dravid. India was going in the right direction. Suddenly this trundler fetish started under Dravid.

Well that's great for us then. Keep dravid at helm.

In saying that, it is great to see india with a good pace attack. They definitely outperformed ours recently.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Undoubtedly, we have the best bowling attack but with just one injury our options for a replacement has been exposed as we dont have any good fast bowler available in domestic circuit.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Pakistan have a bowling attack that will not take ten wickets in a match.

Rauf is playing himself out of contention and might as well risk the extra spinner.

Dark times ahead

 

[Unbiased-Fan]

Not even remotely close. They are extremely overrated on social media but in reality Australia, India, RSA have better pacers than Pakistan.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Naseem’s absence has definitely affected the team mentally. They are not half as good as they were when Naseem was part of the team.

Bitter facts and everyone has their agenda, but Naseem Shah was your ODI bowling attack.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Naseem’s absence has definitely affected the team mentally. They are not half as good as they were when Naseem was part of the team.

Bitter facts and everyone has their agenda, but Naseem Shah was your ODI bowling attack.

At least he could stem the leak if not pick up wickets.

Here there is no one to stop the dam.

And Shaheen doesnt look like picking any wicket anytime soon.

 

[Rana]

Australia and England will smash Rauf as if they are collecting sawaab

 

[Farabi]

Wow negativity galore. Rauf was bowling better than Naseem. He will be back.
You cannot start concluding based on 2 warm up games loll

 

[Usman Chadda]

At least he could stem the leak if not pick up wickets.

Here there is no one to stop the dam.

And Shaheen doesnt look like picking any wicket anytime soon.

Naseem’s economy rate in the death overs is under 6. He’s by far our best ODI pacer and you take out the best bowler from any bowling line-up, you will struggle ofcourse.

 

[Thanos]

Thing is, if your bowling attack can be disturbed by exclusion of just one bowler, was it the best bowling attack in first place?

 

[hassan918]

With Naseem Shah, we probably have the best attack but without him it is not the case. Today we saw Haris went for 97 in his 9 overs and Wasim conceded 63 runs in his 8 overs that is not good at all.

 

[Rana]

Looks like the flattest bowling attack in the world now

 

[kron]

Looks like the flattest bowling attack in the world now

Without naseem we are very average. Missed the boat on ihansullah

 

[kron]

Naseem’s economy rate in the death overs is under 6. He’s by far our best ODI pacer and you take out the best bowler from any bowling line-up, you will struggle ofcourse.

Take starc out of aus, they look average.
Take nortje out of SA they look mediocre
Take bumrah out of india and they would look average too.
The boult out of nz and they are average

 

[Nikhil_cric]

The way Naseem was bowling was certainly impressive. More like an Aussie seamer than a Pakistani seamer. If he were 8 inches taller, that is peak McGrath in ODIs.

 

[Firebat]

Death bowling is incredibly lacking sadly.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

only 1 injury expossed the whole damn best bowling unit myth.

 

[Syed1]

Wow negativity galore. Rauf was bowling better than Naseem. He will be back.
You cannot start concluding based on 2 warm up games loll

Ok so what the cut off of the number of games before we can start concluding? 1 game, 2 games, the whole world cup?


You lot are acting as if this WC is happening in isolation and it's not like we just had an Asia Cup where we ended up 4th in a 6 nation tournament

 

[jnaveen1980]

Take starc out of aus, they look average.
Take nortje out of SA they look mediocre
Take bumrah out of india and they would look average too.
The boult out of nz and they are average

Bumrah missed 24 out of 35 matches in the last 2 years. 30 against non minnows. India still has the best avge/SR for pacers.

 

[WengerOut]

When everyone is fit, Shaheen is the best bowler. Now that Naseem is out injured, he has suddenly become the best bowler. It is better you dont think some of fan logic.

 

[jnaveen1980]

The way Naseem was bowling was certainly impressive. More like an Aussie seamer than a Pakistani seamer. If he were 8 inches taller, that is peak McGrath in ODIs.

He has to establish consistency in this format yet. Naseem shah is ranked 60 in ODIs. His highest so far is 58. He has to get near top 20 to be considered a top bowler. Shaheen within one year was inside top 20. Right now even Pandya occasional part time seamer is ranked 50th. Thakur 41.

 

[jnaveen1980]

When everyone is fit, Shaheen is the best bowler. Now that Naseem is out injured, he has suddenly become the best bowler. It is better you dont think some of fan logic.

Shaheen 9th ranked bowler
Rauf 22nd ranked bowler
Naseem 60th ranked bowler

 

[kron]

Bumrah missed 24 out of 35 matches in the last 2 years. 30 against non minnows. India still has the best avge/SR for pacers.

What was the attack without bumrah.

Siraj shami and prasidh? Is that what india will go with now? 3 pacers?
I feel pitch will aid spin more as we go deep into the tournament.

 

[Iamcoolwhiz]

Truth be told, Pakistan has always had the best bowling attack on paper and fizzle out when they actually bowl.


My theory is - as a nation, Pakistan gives irrationally high importance to mercurial performance.


For example, if a bowler has 5/20 stats in a match, the minds of people would not register it as a single instance of good performance, they would look at the bowler as their one chance to elevate all their future bowling issues, just based on a single performance.


Of course, this is not exact science, just my theory of having been a mostly silent reader since 6 years.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Truth be told, Pakistan has always had the best bowling attack on paper and fizzle out when they actually bowl.


My theory is - as a nation, Pakistan gives irrationally high importance to mercurial performance.


For example, if a bowler has 5/20 stats in a match, the minds of people would not register it as a single instance of good performance, they would look at the bowler as their one chance to elevate all their future bowling issues, just based on a single performance.


Of course, this is not exact science, just my theory of having been a mostly silent reader since 6 years.

You are spot on. Magical spells get extrapolated. There is a reason why Pakistan has not produced a fast bowler 200 wickets in ages. Clock speed obsession leads to injury. That is also their responsibility. Guys like Steyn, Rabada can bowl at 149 kph. But he won't be bowling it every single ball.

 

[jnaveen1980]

What was the attack without bumrah.

Siraj shami and prasidh? Is that what india will go with now? 3 pacers?
I feel pitch will aid spin more as we go deep into the tournament.

Bumrah is needed for death overs. For new ball attack Siraj/Shami/Prasidh even Bhuvi can step in.

 

[kron]

Bumrah is needed for death overs. For new ball attack Siraj/Shami/Prasidh even Bhuvi can step in.

What happened to that quick from IPl. Forget his name. Was rapid. Kartik?
Even the kkr guy Sen was quick. India should blood these 2 players. Got a very good pool of promising quicks.

Without naseem we are struggling as ihansullah is too raw and then zaman is more of a 4 over bowler.

 

[jnaveen1980]

What happened to that quick from IPl. Forget his name. Was rapid. Kartik?
Even the kkr guy Sen was quick. India should blood these 2 players. Got a very good pool of promising quicks.

Without naseem we are struggling as ihansullah is too raw and then zaman is more of a 4 over bowler.

Kartik Tyagi, Kuldeep sen, Harshit Ran they are all quick. You have to play for the right franchise. Hyderbad pitch is graveyard for express bowlers. Tyagi and Umran played for Hyderabad. So they didn't even play for the franchise. They were mostly in the bench.

 

[DJhant]

Pakistan indeed has the allround best pace bowling attack, statistics are not always right

 

[kron]

Pakistan indeed has the allround best pace bowling attack, statistics are not always right

Stop it. We don't.

Even with naseem we are around 3 or 4. Aus india and SA are better.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

He has to establish consistency in this format yet. Naseem shah is ranked 60 in ODIs. His highest so far is 58. He has to get near top 20 to be considered a top bowler. Shaheen within one year was inside top 20. Right now even Pandya occasional part time seamer is ranked 50th. Thakur 41.

Has only played 9 months of ODI cricket which is why the rankings are what they are Their entire strategy was based on Naseem's control. And they were heavily dependent on him - more so than any other cricketer.