Pakistan need a spin bowling coach

[Banter]

ASAP. Mickey Arthur doesn't get spin, he never has. He's the genius who lost the home test series for Pakistan against SL by playing only one spinner. And did it again after losing one test.

Watching the SA batsmen play Shadab - the Pakistan tactics are completely headless chicken. The Field placing doesn't make sense, neither do the bowlers' plan and choice of deliveries. Its almost as if they are expecting South Africa to **** their pants at the sight of competent spin bowling.

That ODI where Shadab allowed a #8 batsman who had no clue which way the ball was turning, to win the game for SA - despite getting to bowl more than 5 overs at him - is a classic example. Today is another one.

Shadab is a young bowler, he needs proper guidance and mentorship. His development is at risk with a South African coach who has no idea about the nuances of spin bowling - how to set batsmen up, how to set fields and bowl to a plan so that it makes batsmen take increasing risk if they want to score even singles. I am not seeing that at all from Pak.

I think everybody on this forum is well aware of Pakistan's limitations with their talent and players available. But a team that is not overflowing with skill cannot afford to have such poor planning. Its simply pathetic.

Teams all over the world are setting up LOI games and winning them with quality spin, especially wrist-spin. Pakistan better figure out this aspect of the game before the WC starts. Because if they don't, they are going to get bull-dozed.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

We are over flowing with talented spinners bit Mickey has no clue on utilising an Asian teams strengths

 

[Banter]

We are over flowing with talented spinners bit Mickey has no clue on utilising an Asian teams strengths

All teams have recognized the importance of spin. England hire Saqlain from time to time, Aus hire Sriram. Even Bangladesh have hired Sunil Joshi from India to guide their bowlers.

Shadab is not a bad bowler - he's a decent prospect, he turns the ball, has a decent googly. But spinners have to be smart and wily - they have to trap batsmen. Such guile is learned over time with experience. Shadab has hardly played a lot of FC cricket. He needs a mentor and guidance on how to finetune and develop his skill-set.

How this has already not happened I don't know - but I guess PCB and professionalism doesn't quite go hand in hand. Actually its not just PCB's fault. It was the coach's responsibility to put his hand up and say that he needs an expert on his staff since he can't handle this aspect of things.

There is still time. I said this in the match thread - Shadab Khan is in danger of going the Piyush Chawla route. He is already darting the ball way too much, T20 style. There is no guarantee that talented prospective leg-spinners will keep developing into top class bowlers. You have to work at it, with the appropriate guidance.

Well-wishers of Pakistan cricket need to step up and issue an SOS signal - there is still a bit of time before the World Cup.

 

[Savak]

Mushtaq Ahmed gets hired by West Indies, England hire the services of Saqlain. India has hired Rahul Dravid to take care of their U-19 and A teams but the PCB doesn't care.

Explains it all

 

[Banter]

Mushtaq Ahmed gets hired by West Indies, England hire the services of Saqlain. India has hired Rahul Dravid to take care of their U-19 and A teams but the PCB doesn't care.

Explains it all

International cricket is a constant game of cat and mouse. New players come in with a set of skills, other teams adapt and counter it after some time. Then the player has to evolve and counter with new tactics and keep improving. Its unrealistic to expect a young bowler to magically do all this on his own.

Even though India's wrist spinners have a good amount of FC experience under the belt, they are benefiting massively from Dhoni's guidance on the pitch when bowling. And the head coach is a former spinner as well, who for all the memes, was a very smart cricketer in his playing days.

This is not rocket science - it is obvious to anybody with basic understanding of cricket. How can the Head coach just fail to address such obvious issues, and then expect that the team will perform at the top level?

Mickey may have done few things right for the PCT, but he is a flawed coach, just like Sarfraz is a flawed captain.

Maybe PCT will do some house-cleaning after a WC. Probably the revolving door will see a Pakistani as coach this time. Maybe Misbah will come back as coach?

 

[ali2220]

pehlay spinner to team mein lao.This team problem is that it doesn't have a genuine spinner, the Pak coach doesn't even wanted to play spinners in UAE, instead he prefers to play bit and pieces players.

 

[MMHS]

I think, first requirement is to pick spinners for squad. Nawaz, Bilal, Imad ... are spinners picked for their batting and Shadab won’t have got his chances without his batting. Spin stock isn’t bad (actually better than pace stock) but unless they are picked one by one all young spinners will fade away.

Don’t think spin coach can do much unless genuine spinners are given opportunities based on their bowling only. Outside Asia is different issue, but in Asian Tests, 2.5 spinners are must, if not 3.0 - PAK picks 1.5, that half also a combination of Bilal & Haris. UAE is king of finger spinners, and PAK doesn’t pick any genuine finger spinner, therefore coaching can’t help motive the quality much & this is affecting batting as well - most of the young batsmen are poor against spin, and they are at sea if genuine spinners start to flight the ball and take it above eye line. Among top 9 ODI teams, PAK is probably worst at playing spin, even WIN at least can lift spinners effortlessly.

This is something I can expect from English or SAF management, but really, really surprised to notice that an Asian team can’t identify genuine spinners for Test matches in UAE!!!!

 

[HappyWarsFan]

I think, first requirement is to pick spinners for squad. Nawaz, Bilal, Imad ... are spinners picked for their batting and Shadab won’t have got his chances without his batting. Spin stock isn’t bad (actually better than pace stock) but unless they are picked one by one all young spinners will fade away.

Don’t think spin coach can do much unless genuine spinners are given opportunities based on their bowling only. Outside Asia is different issue, but in Asian Tests, 2.5 spinners are must, if not 3.0 - PAK picks 1.5, that half also a combination of Bilal & Haris. UAE is king of finger spinners, and PAK doesn’t pick any genuine finger spinner, therefore coaching can’t help motive the quality much & this is affecting batting as well - most of the young batsmen are poor against spin, and they are at sea if genuine spinners start to flight the ball and take it above eye line. Among top 9 ODI teams, PAK is probably worst at playing spin, even WIN at least can lift spinners effortlessly.

This is something I can expect from English or SAF management, but really, really surprised to notice that an Asian team can’t identify genuine spinners for Test matches in UAE!!!!

It's so frustrating that we have Mohammad Ashgar and Zafar Gohar, two young left arm finger spinners, and instead Bilal Asif gets picked . I am sure with Gohar in we could have won that NZ series 2-0 or 3-0.

 

[topspin]

I think, first requirement is to pick spinners for squad. Nawaz, Bilal, Imad ... are spinners picked for their batting and Shadab won’t have got his chances without his batting. Spin stock isn’t bad (actually better than pace stock) but unless they are picked one by one all young spinners will fade away.

Don’t think spin coach can do much unless genuine spinners are given opportunities based on their bowling only. Outside Asia is different issue, but in Asian Tests, 2.5 spinners are must, if not 3.0 - PAK picks 1.5, that half also a combination of Bilal & Haris. UAE is king of finger spinners, and PAK doesn’t pick any genuine finger spinner, therefore coaching can’t help motive the quality much & this is affecting batting as well - most of the young batsmen are poor against spin, and they are at sea if genuine spinners start to flight the ball and take it above eye line. Among top 9 ODI teams, PAK is probably worst at playing spin, even WIN at least can lift spinners effortlessly.

This is something I can expect from English or SAF management, but really, really surprised to notice that an Asian team can’t identify genuine spinners for Test matches in UAE!!!!

Is this generally or just ODIs? If it's the latter I strongly disagree with this. It's the spinners that are the biggest liabilities in this bowling attack.

Ever since ICC clamped down on illegal actions, Pakistan has struggled in the spin department during the ODIs.

 

[MMHS]

Is this generally or just ODIs? If it's the latter I strongly disagree with this. It's the spinners that are the biggest liabilities in this bowling attack.

Ever since ICC clamped down on illegal actions, Pakistan has struggled in the spin department during the ODIs.

It’s in general. PAK doesn’t pick genuine spinners, neither captains use spinners to get wicket between 11-40 overs, hence we have seen several partnerships in that period milking 4-5 singles/over and consolidate the position. Neither Shadab, Imad are the best leggi or SLAO spinner in country, and at his chucking best, Hafeez was just a defensive darter.

Since the 15 degree rule, PAK has struggled because PAK is the only team that used to depend on 20, sometimes 30 overs of off spin, which itself is a very defensive version of spin. It’s the leggis & SLAO spinners who are the wicket takers because they can turn the ball both ways legally and can bring slip in to play. Both PAK offices were genuine chucker, and PCB shamelessly kept them picking until the sky crashed on head; otherwise there were several genuine quality leggi or SLAO spinner available to invest - by now among Shahzaib, Gohar, Raza, Usama, Irfan, Kashif.... there should have been couple of genuine world class spinners playing for PAK, and that guy Kashif has to be really unlucky.

Also, I have to go back to UAE venue again, which is a prime reason for this spin tactics - worst place in earth to play cricket and those mud bed with dead slow, bounceless tracks on those large but slow out field is absolutely ideal for darters and fast leggis like Afridi, Yasir or Rashid ..... genuine spinners will make it easier for batsmen with their flight. The best place for spinners are South Asia, particularly SRL where the tracks are faster, bouncier, and it helps spinners, while the boundaries are larger than India/BD for spinners to flight - no wonder despite decline their cricket, they still have few genuine spinners, though they don’t pick spinners for “all-rounders”.

 

[fitCricFan]

No, we need intervention and from none other than our great Imran Khan. Understood that he is busy managing the country but if he has the time to congratulate Team India on their win in Australia then he can certainly find time to work on restoring our cricketing infrastructure and get our game back on track. He needs to fix PCB and get the right folks managing our cricket.

 

[Savak]

Yasir Shah's poor ODI performances in the chances he got has also hurt the team

 

[Baigel]

Yes, just because we can’t win a match it’s “the incompetent Gora” who decides what delivery the bowler will bowl. Tell me a better option for Pakistan as coach and then we’ll talk. You guys are total wristslitters

 

[xricket]

This. Yes, we need a spin coach badly before the start of the world cup.

 

[topspin]

It’s in general. PAK doesn’t pick genuine spinners, neither captains use spinners to get wicket between 11-40 overs, hence we have seen several partnerships in that period milking 4-5 singles/over and consolidate the position. Neither Shadab, Imad are the best leggi or SLAO spinner in country, and at his chucking best, Hafeez was just a defensive darter.

Since the 15 degree rule, PAK has struggled because PAK is the only team that used to depend on 20, sometimes 30 overs of off spin, which itself is a very defensive version of spin. It’s the leggis & SLAO spinners who are the wicket takers because they can turn the ball both ways legally and can bring slip in to play. Both PAK offices were genuine chucker, and PCB shamelessly kept them picking until the sky crashed on head; otherwise there were several genuine quality leggi or SLAO spinner available to invest - by now among Shahzaib, Gohar, Raza, Usama, Irfan, Kashif.... there should have been couple of genuine world class spinners playing for PAK, and that guy Kashif has to be really unlucky.

Also, I have to go back to UAE venue again, which is a prime reason for this spin tactics - worst place in earth to play cricket and those mud bed with dead slow, bounceless tracks on those large but slow out field is absolutely ideal for darters and fast leggis like Afridi, Yasir or Rashid ..... genuine spinners will make it easier for batsmen with their flight. The best place for spinners are South Asia, particularly SRL where the tracks are faster, bouncier, and it helps spinners, while the boundaries are larger than India/BD for spinners to flight - no wonder despite decline their cricket, they still have few genuine spinners, though they don’t pick spinners for “all-rounders”.

I guess if there is no concept of squad rotation and giving opportunities to new players in some of these meaningless bilaterals (particularly against lower sides), we will never know where the potential of those named players truly lies and instead they rot in domestics. Pakistan have already made this mistake with Yasir in tests, had they brought him in earlier perhaps he wouldn't just be a WI + Asian spin track bully that he is.

 

[ritzy_123]

We definitely need services of Mushtaq Ahmed as soon as possible

 

[MenInG]

Some good views on spinners from Misbah


"When you field for 150 overs then spinners will come into the picture. My opinion is that until a spinner bowls 30-35 overs in an innings or in a day, he can't be a bowler. So the process has started and you can see teams are playing 2 or more spinners. In recent times, teams were playing 1 spinner and often the type who can also bat so that they can turn over their arm when needed. Now they have to play 2 spinners. At the end of the seasons, some names will come forward. Bilal Asif has played for Pakistan, he only played a few FC matches. Now he is bowling a lot. These type of things develop players"

 

[saeed5646]

Perfectly summed up by misbah

 

[Saj]

Some good views on spinners from Misbah


"When you field for 150 overs then spinners will come into the picture. My opinion is that until a spinner bowls 30-35 overs in an innings or in a day, he can't be a bowler. So the process has started and you can see teams are playing 2 or more spinners. In recent times, teams were playing 1 spinner and often the type who can also bat so that they can turn over their arm when needed. Now they have to play 2 spinners. At the end of the seasons, some names will come forward. Bilal Asif has played for Pakistan, he only played a few FC matches. Now he is bowling a lot. These type of things develop players"

Most of our spinners only want to bowl 4 overs.

Important that the likes of Zafar Gohar are given a proper chance this season.

 

[Rellu_Katta]

any ideas on who it should be ? Saqlain Mushtaq isnt going to go for it .... not sure where mushi is ... anyone else?

 

[Saj]

Mushy making some dollars at WICB, Saqlain making pounds at ECB.

Any other takers?

 

[blackanhyellow]

Most of our spinners only want to bowl 4 overs.

Important that the likes of Zafar Gohar are given a proper chance this season.

Well because they get compensated a lot more money and fame bowling those four overs than bowling 20-30 a day.

Cant really blame them.

 

[anonymous_guy]

Mushy making some dollars at WICB, Saqlain making pounds at ECB.

Any other takers?

Zulfiqar 'Cobra' Babar can be a good option as a spin bowling consultant/coach both at the u19 level and international level.

The guy in his late 30s is still running havoc in the QeA 3-day tournament, by far the 2nd best test spinner in Pakistan(behind Yasir Shah).

Salman butt in one of his interviews has said how good a bowler Zulfiqar is at the same time mentioned that he is a bit grumpy too, difficult to talk to, but if "handled with care" can be a great guy to learn from.

 

[Afhan Ali]

We need Zulfi Cobra Babar as second spinner as well as mentor for our national team.

 

[Bewal Express]

Mushy making some dollars at WICB, Saqlain making pounds at ECB.

Any other takers?

Neither make any difference to any Bowler.

 

[MMHS]

Best person for the job is - Rangana Herath. If he is willing, even as part-time basis. Instead of unconventional skills, PAK spinners need to master the art of classical spin first & none better than Herath for the task.

 

[in_cutter]

First of all, the team needs specialist spinners for LOI cricket.