Pakistan places alleged mastermind of 2008 Mumbai attacks under house arrest

[Muhammad10]

Pakistan on Monday ordered Hafiz Saeed, accused by the United States and India of masterminding the 2008 attacks on the Indian financial capital Mumbai that killed 166 people, placed under house arrest, a spokesman for Saeed's organization said.

The move comes after years of pressure on Pakistan to put Saeed on trial and could ease recently escalating tensions with neighbor and arch-foe India.

The United States has offered $10 million for information leading to the arrest and conviction of Saeed, who heads Islamic charity Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD). U.S. officials say JuD is a front for the Pakistan-based militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT).

"A large police team arrived (at JuD headquarters) and told us that Hafiz would be placed under house arrest," Nadeem Awan, Secretary of Information for JuD, told Reuters.

Awan said the police tole them they had an arrest warrant for Saeed and five others at JuD headquarters in the eastern city of Lahore.

India's foreign ministry did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Saeed has repeatedly denied involvement in the 2008 Mumbai attacks.

Saeed's continued freedom has been a source of continuing friction between nuclear-armed neighbors Pakistan and India as well as the United States.

Awan said the Pakistani government had been under pressure from the United States to take action against Saeed or face sanctions.

"This government has buckled under the pressure," Awan said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-detention-idUSKBN15E21D

 

[Yaasir]

It's about time. This monster should have been behind bars years ago.

 

[KingKhanWC]

House arrest can also be a method of protection.

 

[PakLFC]

NS is surely under pressure from Trump. House arrest is probably to please the American's as well as Hafiz's supporters. He will be walking free in no time, NS can even think of putting him behind bars seeing his own situation is very uncertain and Hafiz has very string supporters in the country. Indian's are jumping in joy as if Hafiz is about to be executed.

 

[PakLFC]

I meant Nawaz can't even think of imprisoning Hafiz. By house arresting him he has managed to satisfy all sides for the time being. I support Hafiz for his unrelenting stance on Kashmir.

 

[enkidu_]

What's the objective plus-value of guys like Hafiz Saeed ?

 

[IamIndian]

"alleged" He is an internationally designated terrorist The US has put Hafiz Saeed on its list of most-wanted terrorists and has announced a reward of $10 million !

 

[Major]

"alleged" He is an internationally designated terrorist The US has put Hafiz Saeed on its list of most-wanted terrorists and has announced a reward of $10 million !

And yet this guy roams around on the streets of Pakistan as a common guy.

Every year he gathers his lunatic supporters, who come in busses filled up with them, cuasing blockage on roads and inviting people to do jihad in kashmir.

 

[Major]

This is why i support what india does with pakistan by putting out such blockades.

If india did something similar, and the killer roamed around in India like this, wouldnt imran khan as leader not put such blockades on them?

 

[Nostalgic]

Not an inch of Kashmir has been liberated by giving this guy so much space for so long, yet Wahhabism has found a foothold in Pakistan courtesy his "charitable organization." That shouldn't surprise anyone, because Kashmir was just an excuse all along, just so his Saudi masters can spread their ideology anywhere they can.

It is high time we realize that people of his ilk are a liability, not so-called "assets." Patronizing his kind will not get us Kashmir, instead they will end up conquering Pakistan at the behest of his Wahhabi bosses.

 

[DW44]

Not an inch of Kashmir has been liberated by giving this guy so much space for so long, yet Wahhabism has found a foothold in Pakistan courtesy his "charitable organization." That shouldn't surprise anyone, because Kashmir was just an excuse all along, just so his Saudi masters can spread their ideology anywhere they can.

It is high time we realize that people of his ilk are a liability, not so-called "assets." Patronizing his kind will not get us Kashmir, instead they will end up conquering Pakistan at the behest of his Wahhabi bosses.

It's a disaster waiting to happen. There is already precedent for state backed terrorists turning on the state, which is how TTP was created, and if his organization turns on Pakistan, which is inevitable at some point, our experience in the last 15 years is going to look like a cakewalk by comparison considering the sheer size of his organization (bigger than AL Qaeda, IS in both Iraq and Syria combined, and several of the largest terrorist groups in Pakistan like LeJ and TTP combined), not to mention the generous funding they get from their Saudi masters making them easily the largest, best armed and best funded terrorist organization not just in Pakistan but possibly the world. The Diplomatic and Foreign Policy ran a series of articles last year where they crunched some numbers that concluded that in terms of raw numbers, no other terrorist group in the world, even global ones like AQ, came close to LeT whose Afghanistan chapter is also collaborating closely with IS which further bolsters their strength. Now picture all that loose on the streets of Pakistan.

 

[Zahid87]

It's a disaster waiting to happen. There is already precedent for state backed terrorists turning on the state, which is how TTP was created, and if his organization turns on Pakistan, which is inevitable at some point, our experience in the last 15 years is going to look like a cakewalk by comparison considering the sheer size of his organization (bigger than AL Qaeda, IS in both Iraq and Syria combined, and several of the largest terrorist groups in Pakistan like LeJ and TTP combined), not to mention the generous funding they get from their Saudi masters making them easily the largest, best armed and best funded terrorist organization not just in Pakistan but possibly the world. The Diplomatic and Foreign Policy ran a series of articles last year where they crunched some numbers that concluded that in terms of raw numbers, no other terrorist group in the world, even global ones like AQ, came close to LeT whose Afghanistan chapter is also collaborating closely with IS which further bolsters their strength. Now picture all that loose on the streets of Pakistan.

Do people accept that? I though the commonly held view is still that TTP were created by India and are being pushed through Afganistan.

If people go long enough back, before the Good Taliban (Afghan), Bad Taliban (TTP) propoganda, TTP were even welcomed as just, Islamic rulers when they basically took over Swat, and the govt/army made a truce with them.

 

[DW44]

And to add to my previous post, this organization's presence here is the litmus test for those who claim to be "pro Pakistan" (the quotation marks are important) and hate the government only because of its corruption because LeT, in recent years, has become a bit of a sour point between the government, who want them gone, and the army who see them as assets. If these people really care about policy and their hatred for NS/Zardari etc is issues based as opposed to irrational, let's see them stand by the government against the army on an issue where the otherwise corrupt government is in the right and the supposedly pro Pakistan army is damaging the nation's interests to further their own.

 

[DW44]

Do people accept that? I though the commonly held view is still that TTP were created by India and are being pushed through Afganistan.

If people go long enough back, before the Good Taliban (Afghan), Bad Taliban (TTP) propoganda, TTP were even welcomed as just, Islamic rulers when they basically took over Swat, and the govt/army made a truce with them.

Many don't but they can't be taken seriously since they're mostly the "pro Pakistan" types which basically means they're army groupies who would support any narrative peddled by GHQ no matter how blatantly false and irrational. The better informed minority knows how they were created by a combination of former Afghan Taliban members and new recruits from Pakistani madrassas that had been supplying manpower to established terrorist organizations in the region for decades.

The Swat example is interesting because the people of SWAT were always against them but it was the "pro Pakistan" types who were peddling the pro TTP narrative. I had the opportunity to visit Buner in 2013, a place that was briefly taken over by TTP in 2009, and every single local was strongly opposes to them but worryingly, there was a lot of support for the Afghan Taliban, called the "original Taliban" in those parts, as they were seen as true muslims fighting for Islam.

 

[Zahid87]

Many don't but they can't be taken seriously since they're mostly the "pro Pakistan" types which basically means they're army groupies who would support any narrative peddled by GHQ no matter how blatantly false and irrational. The better informed minority knows how they were created by a combination of former Afghan Taliban members and new recruits from Pakistani madrassas that had been supplying manpower to established terrorist organizations in the region for decades.

The Swat example is interesting because the people of SWAT were always against them but it was the "pro Pakistan" types who were peddling the pro TTP narrative. I had the opportunity to visit Buner in 2013, a place that was briefly taken over by TTP in 2009, and every single local was strongly opposes to them but worryingly, there was a lot of support for the Afghan Taliban, called the "original Taliban" in those parts, as they were seen as true muslims fighting for Islam.

The problem is, from what I see, the pro Pakistan types make up the majority of the populace. Or rather, the majority of the populace will buy whatever bs the govt/army peddles when it comes to terrorism/islam.

And on your other point...well its typical. Its easy for people to support hardline Islamic regimes when they are far away from them. When they bring the brutality and beheading to your front door, its a bit different. Lots of posters on this very site as just as split - Aghan Taliban represent the 'legitimate resistance' to Western/unislamic forces. Even though the TTP are cut from the same cloth, they are somehow designated as evil terrorists produced and supported by India and Afghanistan.

 

[DW44]

The problem is, from what I see, the pro Pakistan types make up the majority of the populace. Or rather, the majority of the populace will buy whatever bs the govt/army peddles when it comes to terrorism/islam.

And on your other point...well its typical. Its easy for people to support hardline Islamic regimes when they are far away from them. When they bring the brutality and beheading to your front door, its a bit different. Lots of posters on this very site as just as split - Aghan Taliban represent the 'legitimate resistance' to Western/unislamic forces. Even though the TTP are cut from the same cloth, they are somehow designated as evil terrorists produced and supported by India and Afghanistan.

Dissenting voices are so few and so strictly dealt with by the powers that be that for all practical purposes the "pro pakistan" types form not just a majority but pretty much the entirety of the population. They hate the government so they won't buy anything the government says but they will sell their souls to the army for a nickel.

It's not a coincidence that those on this forum who support Afghan Taliban are mostly "pro Pakistan" Brits, not actual Pakistanis which explains why they are so ignorant of the ground realities. They support Afghan Taliban as freedom fighters fighting for the Afghan people against an occupying force, they hate the Afghans for haying Pakistan but they fail to make the connection between the two, that the Afghan people hate us because of our support for Afghan Taliban who are seen as foreign terrorists in Afghanistan no different to any other occupying force. The pro Pakistan types are a cancer to this country.

 

[SL_Fan]

Pakistan does not want war with India: DG ISPR

Pakistan does not want to engage in war with any country, DG ISPR Major General Asif Ghafoor said on Tuesday.

Addressing the media, the head of military’s media wing said, Pakistan is not involved in stoking terrorism in Afghanistan.

The DG ISPR, however, warned India against mistaking “our desire for peace as weakness”. “India is working on a plan and that’s why it staged a drama of surgical strike. Armed forces and the people are ready to respond to any misadventure by India.”

“Over 70,000 Pakistanis have sacrificed their lives since the launch of war against terror in Pakistan. We will continue to render sacrifices until the country is put on the desired level of progress,” head of military’s media wing, Major General Asif Ghafoor said while addressing a press conference in General Headquarters of the Pakistan Army.

Delving into the details of the anti-terror efforts, the DG ISPR said around 26,000 intelligence-based operations (IBOs) and combing operations have been conducted by the armed forces since the launch of war against terror. “Over 3,000 IBOs were conducted in Balochistan,” he said.

Maj-Gen Ghafoor said as a result of the effective campaign against terrorism launched by the Army in 2008-9, far-flung areas of the country including tribal areas have witnessed an improvement in the law and order situation. “At least 84 per cent of temporarily displaced persons from these areas have safely been repatriated,” he said.

Regarding house arrest of Jamaatud Dawa (JuD) chief Hafiz Saeed, Maj-Gen Ghafoor said it was a policy decision taken in the national interest. “Situation will become clearer in the days to come,” he said.

Responding to a question on Afghanistan, the head of ISPR said Pakistan was not involved in terrorist incidents inside Afghanistan and would not allow its soil to be sued for such acts.

While several terrorists were killed in military operation Zarb-e-Azb, many fled to Afghanistan due to weak border system. However, new posts and border mechanism have been built along the Afghan border to check illegal crossing. “The Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) leadership has also found refuge in Afghanistan.”

Ghafoor went on to say that it is Pakistan’s desire that Afghanistan experiences better law and order, helping the refugees in Pakistan return to their homeland. “Armed forces are also working to break the nexus between Indian spy agency RAW and Afghanistan’s NDS in Balochistan.”

When asked about the case of missing bloggers, he said Pakistan Army has nothing to do with the disappearances of the bloggers.

“We do not think that the interior minister’s statement that he would talk to intelligence agencies to recover the missing bloggers, or saying that it’s not the state’s policy, was to implicate someone,” Maj-Gen Ghafoor said.

“A state has tools and instruments which it uses to implement a certain decision and we don’t think that the interior minister accused anyone [of involvement in disappearances].”

Armed forces and intelligence agencies are also part of the state and the bloggers were recovered as a result of the state’s efforts, the DG ISPR added.

Link

 

[WebGuru]

So ARMY is taking the responsibility of this house arrest? Now that's something interesting DG ISPR coming out for a press conference on this issue.

 

[Mian]

Noora government was trying to cash it just lioe zarab e azb but here comes a shut up call by army

 

[Zahid87]

Noora government was trying to cash it just lioe zarab e azb but here comes a shut up call by army

Hafiz Saeed is an army asset. If they are prepared to now turn him in....its interesting. If the desire is genuine, and not an attempt to merely put up appearances, then is it due to a change in policy vis-avis militants in Kashmir/India, or due to pressure from US/UN/China.

 

[Nostalgic]

It's a disaster waiting to happen. There is already precedent for state backed terrorists turning on the state, which is how TTP was created, and if his organization turns on Pakistan, which is inevitable at some point, our experience in the last 15 years is going to look like a cakewalk by comparison considering the sheer size of his organization (bigger than AL Qaeda, IS in both Iraq and Syria combined, and several of the largest terrorist groups in Pakistan like LeJ and TTP combined), not to mention the generous funding they get from their Saudi masters making them easily the largest, best armed and best funded terrorist organization not just in Pakistan but possibly the world. The Diplomatic and Foreign Policy ran a series of articles last year where they crunched some numbers that concluded that in terms of raw numbers, no other terrorist group in the world, even global ones like AQ, came close to LeT whose Afghanistan chapter is also collaborating closely with IS which further bolsters their strength. Now picture all that loose on the streets of Pakistan.

What do you make of the house arrest? There's a precedent of the boys arresting certain people with great fanfare, and then quietly releasing them after a few weeks once the news dies down a bit. Could this time be different?

I remember reading a Cyril Almeida column where he said that the boys are now aware of what a problem this is, they just weren't willing to pick a new fight at that moment. Could this signal the beginning of a real about turn, or is this yet another swallow that won't make a summer?

 

[DW44]

What do you make of the house arrest? There's a precedent of the boys arresting certain people with great fanfare, and then quietly releasing them after a few weeks once the news dies down a bit. Could this time be different?

I remember reading a Cyril Almeida column where he said that the boys are now aware of what a problem this is, they just weren't willing to pick a new fight at that moment. Could this signal the beginning of a real about turn, or is this yet another swallow that won't make a summer?

I'll reserve judgement till there are further developments in this case. The boys have pulled this one step forward two steps back crap far too often for it to fool anyone now. I had my hopes up when Malik Ishaq was taken out but it became apparent not long afterwards that the boys were still very much in bed with Lashkar e Jhangvi and their associated acts(ASWJ/SSP).

I'm pretty sure I've read the article you're referring to but I don't necessarily agree with what Cyril says, great analyst though he may be, because, again, we have had too many false dawns of this kind where we hear about the boys finally having an epiphany and it never pans out. The argument about them being unwilling to pick a new fight is absolute rubbish that we've been hearing for about five years now. If that really was the only reason they were unwilling to go after the myriad Lashkars of Punjab , I'm still at a loss for why they'd let themselves be seen openly supporting and wining/dining key LeJ and Jaish leaders.

 

[Nostalgic]

I'll reserve judgement till there are further developments in this case. The boys have pulled this one step forward two steps back crap far too often for it to fool anyone now. I had my hopes up when Malik Ishaq was taken out but it became apparent not long afterwards that the boys were still very much in bed with Lashkar e Jhangvi and their associated acts(ASWJ/SSP).

I'm pretty sure I've read the article you're referring to but I don't necessarily agree with what Cyril says, great analyst though he may be, because, again, we have had too many false dawns of this kind where we hear about the boys finally having an epiphany and it never pans out. The argument about them being unwilling to pick a new fight is absolute rubbish that we've been hearing for about five years now. If that really was the only reason they were unwilling to go after the myriad Lashkars of Punjab , I'm still at a loss for why they'd let themselves be seen openly supporting and wining/dining key LeJ and Jaish leaders.

I wonder what the Chinese feel about this. They aren't likely to keep vetoing UNSC resolutions forever. Maybe they'll prod the boys in the desired direction, and then the boys will have to choose between the Chinese and the Saudis...

 

[PakLFC]

Nothing has happened to Hafiz at all even according to Zee News reports. Dr Shahid Masood believes it is just a ploy to keep the new American President sweet with this latest "house arrest" announcement that I believe has been done before. Firstly other then false Indian accusations there is no evidence against him off any wrong doing as determined by a Pak court. Seems as if this "house arrest" is more of a means to protect him from any mishap then anything else. He would have been behind bars if solid evidence was found against him not some fake "house arrest" where he is fed biryani and kebabs every hour

 

[DW44]

I wonder what the Chinese feel about this. They aren't likely to keep vetoing UNSC resolutions forever. Maybe they'll prod the boys in the desired direction, and then the boys will have to choose between the Chinese and the Saudis...

Rumor has it that the decision may have been taken under Chinese pressure (as opposed to American, like some apologists are suggesting) and the arguments made to support that claim are pretty compelling. In any case, the house arrest needs to be followed up by a proper arrest and, ultimately, the Malik Ishaq treatment but the boys, duplicitous cretins that they are, will find a way to let him walk free.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Who cares, Indians need to stop this crying about wanting Hafiz and Azhar locked up. Pakistan is self destructing on its own, Indians needs to concentrate more on their economy and stop being cowardly when someone has an accident on the road like; just standing there and staring at the person suffering rather than helping them..

 

[adit_sh]

Who cares, Indians need to stop this crying about wanting Hafiz and Azhar locked up. Pakistan is self destructing on its own, Indians needs to concentrate more on their economy and stop being cowardly when someone has an accident on the road like; just standing there and staring at the person suffering rather than helping them..

Keep Improve technology advancements in security and focus on economy will only help

 

[Nostalgic]

Rumor has it that the decision may have been taken under Chinese pressure (as opposed to American, like some apologists are suggesting) and the arguments made to support that claim are pretty compelling. In any case, the house arrest needs to be followed up by a proper arrest and, ultimately, the Malik Ishaq treatment but the boys, duplicitous cretins that they are, will find a way to let him walk free.

What a Godawful mess this is. I hope the boys have a plan for ruthlessly crushing the blowback when this guy's minions take on the state in retaliation. That is of course if the arrest/"encounter" does take place and he isn't quietly released in a month's time.

 

[GujjarLife]

What a Godawful mess this is. I hope the boys have a plan for ruthlessly crushing the blowback when this guy's minions take on the state in retaliation. That is of course if the arrest/"encounter" does take place and he isn't quietly released in a month's time.

Saeed and his followers will never attack the Pakistani state or fellow Pakistanis. Having said that, the Jihadi Project should be closed.

 

[Nostalgic]

Saeed and his followers will never attack the Pakistani state or fellow Pakistanis.

Why not? If the state turns on them, they are very likely to hit back.

 

[PakLFC]

Who cares, Indians need to stop this crying about wanting Hafiz and Azhar locked up. Pakistan is self destructing on its own, Indians needs to concentrate more on their economy and stop being cowardly when someone has an accident on the road like; just standing there and staring at the person suffering rather than helping them..

This "self destruction" according to you people has been going on for the last 20 years. Fact is terrorism has greatly reduced in Pakistan over the last few years. We have political problems but so do you with Nazi Modi in charge.http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/viol...sts-10-facts-1655454?pfrom=home-lateststories is what I call self destruction! Worry about your own future instead of dreaming of a world without Pakistan!

 

[hussain123]

Good step.pakistan should also come hard down on all other pseudo jihadi organisations and totally end their networks.they add zilch to kashmir cause.

 

[hussain123]

I meant Nawaz can't even think of imprisoning Hafiz. By house arresting him he has managed to satisfy all sides for the time being. I support Hafiz for his unrelenting stance on Kashmir.

When persons like hafiz saeed "support" kashmir cause they actually make mockery of what is a very very genuine cause per se.pakistan rather than supporting these pseudo freedom fighters, would do a world of good to kashmir cause by actually sensitizing the world about kashmir,sort of what it has started doing oflate.

 

[DW44]

When persons like hafiz saeed "support" kashmir cause they actually make mockery of what is a very very genuine cause per se.pakistan rather than supporting these pseudo freedom fighters, would do a world of good to kashmir cause by actually sensitizing the world about kashmir,sort of what it has started doing oflate.

This is what people here don't understand. Having the likes of this terrorist support the Kashmir cause does the cause no favors whatsoever. Pakistan's recent attempts at taking a diplomatic approach to the issue were thwarted because, to quote those responsible for making Pakistan's case, whenever they'd bring up the Kashmir issue the first thing they'd face would be uncomfortable questions about Saeed and why Pakistan was supporting a terrorist in Kashmir if their case was genuine.

 

[Markhor]

Hafiz Saeed is a liability not an asset. The Kashmir issue hasn't advanced one bit as a result of his presence.

I understand his organisation has some support on the ground in some parts of Punjab so politically it will be difficult to remove him but he should not have any state protection.

 

[DW44]

I understand his organisation has some support on the ground in all parts of Punjab

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[PakLFC]

When persons like hafiz saeed "support" kashmir cause they actually make mockery of what is a very very genuine cause per se.pakistan rather than supporting these pseudo freedom fighters, would do a world of good to kashmir cause by actually sensitizing the world about kashmir,sort of what it has started doing oflate.

I may not agree with what Hafiz is saying but he has the right to express his views. He likes getting under the skins of Indian people when they instigate propaganda against him on their TV channels. His "come and get me" taunts to India is what he enjoys the most! As for Kashmir the Pakistani government in cahoots in India never speaks on the subject so someone has to do so.

 

[PakLFC]

This is what people here don't understand. Having the likes of this terrorist support the Kashmir cause does the cause no favors whatsoever. Pakistan's recent attempts at taking a diplomatic approach to the issue were thwarted because, to quote those responsible for making Pakistan's case, whenever they'd bring up the Kashmir issue the first thing they'd face would be uncomfortable questions about Saeed and why Pakistan was supporting a terrorist in Kashmir if their case was genuine.

This is where you are wrong. Hafiz is no terrorist at all. Nothing as such has been proved against him so he has no charge to answer. You may not like his appearance or things he says that is not to suggest that he is a terrorist supporter. Pak is verbally supporting the Kashmir cause more then anything else. The uprising in the valley now is by the oppressed Kashmiri people themselves that India keeps blaming in Pakistanis jihadi's to hide it's own bloody fangs.

 

[DW44]

This is where you are wrong. Hafiz is no terrorist at all. Nothing as such has been proved against him so he has no charge to answer. You may not like his appearance or things he says that is not to suggest that he is a terrorist supporter. Pak is verbally supporting the Kashmir cause more then anything else. The uprising in the valley now is by the oppressed Kashmiri people themselves that India keeps blaming in Pakistanis jihadi's to hide it's own bloody fangs.

Off course he is. Under any objective definition of terrorist, this man is a terrorist. The lack of evidence excuse is just petty verbal gymnastics that even the most right wing Pakistanis no longer employ and it is widely acknowledged here that he was, in fact, responsible for Mumbai even if Pakistani authorities refuse to accept the overwhelming evidence collected not just by the Indians but the Brits and, to a lesser extent, the Americans that implicates him. Your views are colored by your own biases which are quite obvious so we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. It's ironic that you bring up India blaming the genuine struggle of the Kashmiri people on him and Pakistan because the reason they can get away with that in the first place is because Pakistan, for decades, used him and that other terrorist Masood Azhar's organizations to do exactly what India is now accusing Pakistan of doing and this has done a ridiculous amount of damage to Pakistan who now find themselves shunned by world powers when they're finally trying to do it right because it's hard to get rid of a reputation for using armed proxies built up over three decades.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

DW44 for president.

We need more people like him.

Hafeez Saeed not a terrorist? lmao.

 

[PakLFC]

Off course he is. Under any objective definition of terrorist, this man is a terrorist. The lack of evidence excuse is just petty verbal gymnastics that even the most right wing Pakistanis no longer employ and it is widely acknowledged here that he was, in fact, responsible for Mumbai even if Pakistani authorities refuse to accept the overwhelming evidence collected not just by the Indians but the Brits and, to a lesser extent, the Americans that implicates him. Your views are colored by your own biases which are quite obvious so we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. It's ironic that you bring up India blaming the genuine struggle of the Kashmiri people on him and Pakistan because the reason they can get away with that in the first place is because Pakistan, for decades, used him and that other terrorist Masood Azhar's organizations to do exactly what India is now accusing Pakistan of doing and this has done a ridiculous amount of damage to Pakistan who now find themselves shunned by world powers when they're finally trying to do it right because it's hard to get rid of a reputation for using armed proxies built up over three decades.

How is he a terrorist when no conclusive evidence has been found against him? I don't know what you are on about here with your drivel of certain Pakistani's acknowledging that he was responsible for Mumbai. I do realise that there are many pro-Indian Pakistanis in the media who love scratching Indian backs for miserable gains. What bases are you talking off here? I am sure you are one of those "Aman ki Asha" type Pakistanis who wanted Amir Liaquat banned as well and feel we should openly show Bollywood cinema whilst they stop of water. That is what people like you call peaceful coexistence, ain't gonna happen, ever!

I may not agree with what tactics Pak has employed historically over the past decades in IoK but now after Indian involvement in Balochistan and KPK has been proved as well as Kulbashan caught red handed I think all rules of engagement are out of the window. Pak military will give India back exactly what they deserve for instigating so much terror in our cities. What you on about Pak being shunned when the whole world is talking to Pakistan and doing military exercises with us. Even Trump has not placed any travel restrictions on Pakistan whatsoever. Are you sure you're a Pakistani??

 

[PakLFC]

....and I don't care what some American or British report says when these people have killed million's of innocent Iraqis by telling complete lies of Iraq having WMD. Did the British punish Blair or the American's did Bush? How about all those Hindu swami's like Om, Adityanath and Ajit Doval openly threatening Pakistan with terrorism. This one rule for Pakistan and one for the rest will never be accepted by the Pak military. The problem with people like DW44 is their lack of plain logic that even a blind man can see. In his attempts to be impartial he is actually doing the exact opposite.

 

[DW44]

How is he a terrorist when no conclusive evidence has been found against him? I don't know what you are on about here with your drivel of certain Pakistani's acknowledging that he was responsible for Mumbai. I do realise that there are many pro-Indian Pakistanis in the media who love scratching Indian backs for miserable gains. What bases are you talking off here? I am sure you are one of those "Aman ki Asha" type Pakistanis who wanted Amir Liaquat banned as well and feel we should openly show Bollywood cinema whilst they stop of water. That is what people like you call peaceful coexistence, ain't gonna happen, ever!

You claiming there's no conclusive evidence doesn't mean there actually isn't any, it just means you're deluding yourself. I wouldn't expect you to know what I'm on about considering how out of touch you so called "pro Pakistani" Brit lot are with the goings on in Pakistan. Further evidence of that is your ridiculous claim that there are "many" pro Indian Pakistanis in the media, something anyone who has spent even a few weeks in Pakistan would know is an accusation peddled by the right wing section of Pakistan's public and establishment to discredit any dissenting voices which, not coincidentally, are almost invariably liberal ones. Almost none of the people, myself included considering how often I get accused of that, are actually pro Indian and if you're buying this rubbish, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Furthermore, I have about as much tolerance for India and what their state and society stand for as I do for Pakistan's so no, I am not at all the Aman ki Asha "type", as you put it. That much should be clear to anyone who is familiar with my views on India here but by all means continue creating strawmen.

I do however support the ban on Amir Liaqat because the man is a hate monger with a sizable following and his incitement has resulted in at least three people being killed in the past so yeah, ban the scumbag.

I may not agree with what tactics Pak has employed historically over the past decades in IoK but now after Indian involvement in Balochistan and KPK has been proved as well as Kulbashan caught red handed I think all rules of engagement are out of the window. Pak military will give India back exactly what they deserve for instigating so much terror in our cities. What you on about Pak being shunned when the whole world is talking to Pakistan and doing military exercises with us. Even Trump has not placed any travel restrictions on Pakistan whatsoever. Are you sure you're a Pakistani??

You just couldn't help adding a bit of "mirch masala", could you? While Indian involvement in Balochistan is no secret, the myth that terrorists operating in KPK are backed by India has zero evidence behind it. People like you talk a tough game sitting 4000 miles away from Pakistan but it's us who have to live with the consequences. There never were any "rules of engagement", so to speak. All states play realpolitik sociopathically in the pursuit of their interests and do whatever it takes but it's a time honored traditions for the losers to feign righteousness and complain about how unfair it all is. It's a fact of life and you have to play your cards accordingly. India and Pakistan both sponsor terrorism on each other's soil and the world treats them both very differently for it but you can either play your cards wrong and cry, moan and complain about it or you can play them right to make sure they have no choice but to take you seriously. Continued use of Hafiz Saeed types is about the dumbest play Pakistan can me here.

I'd be grateful if you could point out where I said Pakistan has been shunned because my statement you so grossly misunderstood was that Pakistan's very legitimate diplomatic case for Kashmir is being dismissed by major powers because of the reputation Pakistan has developed for using state sponsored terrorists there, a reputation that is not at all unjustified. If you think Pakistan alone can resolve this issue without involving the international community, you're sadly mistaken and the members of the international community that matter are unwilling to listen to Pakistan because Pakistan has made crappy move after crappy move. None of that implies that Pakistan as a nation has become a pariah which is a completely different issue altogether.

....and I don't care what some American or British report says when these people have killed million's of innocent Iraqis by telling complete lies of Iraq having WMD. Did the British punish Blair or the American's did Bush? How about all those Hindu swami's like Om, Adityanath and Ajit Doval openly threatening Pakistan with terrorism. This one rule for Pakistan and one for the rest will never be accepted by the Pak military. The problem with people like DW44 is their lack of plain logic that even a blind man can see. In his attempts to be impartial he is actually doing the exact opposite.

Again, doesn't matter whether or not you care. Them lying about Iraq was a different issue because they had a stake of their own in it. This did not concern them so they had no reason to fabricate anything and furthermore, the same series of reports contained similar evidence of Indian involvement in Balochistan so it definitely wasn't a case of them playing favorites. I should also add that I have absolutely no interest in being neutral, neutrality be damned, I'm firmly on Pakistan's side on Kashmir but as a Pakistani citizen, I am well within my rights to be concerned about Pakistan shooting itself in the foot. I prefer to deal in verifiable facts rather than myths and conspiracy theories that have so much traction here and that, in Pakistan, means highlighting uncomfortable realities which gets one labelled an Indian agent/Yahudi agent/CIA agent.

What you chose to believe or not believe is up to you and doesn't bother me in the slightest which is why I have refrained so far from interacting with you despite some posts by you that, in the past, would almost certainly get a reaction from me so I ask that you extend me the same courtesy and if you have any further wisdom to impart on the subject, direct it at [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] who is just as much of a liberal fascists Hindu Zionist as I am and hates Hafiz a great deal more.

 

[PakLFC]

You claiming there's no conclusive evidence doesn't mean there actually isn't any, it just means you're deluding yourself. I wouldn't expect you to know what I'm on about considering how out of touch you so called "pro Pakistani" Brit lot are with the goings on in Pakistan. Further evidence of that is your ridiculous claim that there are "many" pro Indian Pakistanis in the media, something anyone who has spent even a few weeks in Pakistan would know is an accusation peddled by the right wing section of Pakistan's public and establishment to discredit any dissenting voices which, not coincidentally, are almost invariably liberal ones. Almost none of the people, myself included considering how often I get accused of that, are actually pro Indian and if you're buying this rubbish, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Furthermore, I have about as much tolerance for India and what their state and society stand for as I do for Pakistan's so no, I am not at all the Aman ki Asha "type", as you put it. That much should be clear to anyone who is familiar with my views on India here but by all means continue creating strawmen.

I do however support the ban on Amir Liaqat because the man is a hate monger with a sizable following and his incitement has resulted in at least three people being killed in the past so yeah, ban the scumbag.



You just couldn't help adding a bit of "mirch masala", could you? While Indian involvement in Balochistan is no secret, the myth that terrorists operating in KPK are backed by India has zero evidence behind it. People like you talk a tough game sitting 4000 miles away from Pakistan but it's us who have to live with the consequences. There never were any "rules of engagement", so to speak. All states play realpolitik sociopathically in the pursuit of their interests and do whatever it takes but it's a time honored traditions for the losers to feign righteousness and complain about how unfair it all is. It's a fact of life and you have to play your cards accordingly. India and Pakistan both sponsor terrorism on each other's soil and the world treats them both very differently for it but you can either play your cards wrong and cry, moan and complain about it or you can play them right to make sure they have no choice but to take you seriously. Continued use of Hafiz Saeed types is about the dumbest play Pakistan can me here.

I'd be grateful if you could point out where I said Pakistan has been shunned because my statement you so grossly misunderstood was that Pakistan's very legitimate diplomatic case for Kashmir is being dismissed by major powers because of the reputation Pakistan has developed for using state sponsored terrorists there, a reputation that is not at all unjustified. If you think Pakistan alone can resolve this issue without involving the international community, you're sadly mistaken and the members of the international community that matter are unwilling to listen to Pakistan because Pakistan has made crappy move after crappy move. None of that implies that Pakistan as a nation has become a pariah which is a completely different issue altogether.



Again, doesn't matter whether or not you care. Them lying about Iraq was a different issue because they had a stake of their own in it. This did not concern them so they had no reason to fabricate anything and furthermore, the same series of reports contained similar evidence of Indian involvement in Balochistan so it definitely wasn't a case of them playing favorites. I should also add that I have absolutely no interest in being neutral, neutrality be damned, I'm firmly on Pakistan's side on Kashmir but as a Pakistani citizen, I am well within my rights to be concerned about Pakistan shooting itself in the foot. I prefer to deal in verifiable facts rather than myths and conspiracy theories that have so much traction here and that, in Pakistan, means highlighting uncomfortable realities which gets one labelled an Indian agent/Yahudi agent/CIA agent.

What you chose to believe or not believe is up to you and doesn't bother me in the slightest which is why I have refrained so far from interacting with you despite some posts by you that, in the past, would almost certainly get a reaction from me so I ask that you extend me the same courtesy and if you have any further wisdom to impart on the subject, direct it at [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] who is just as much of a liberal fascists Hindu Zionist as I am and hates Hafiz a great deal more.

You can keep beating your chest as much as you want and crying in your cornflakes but Hafiz is rightfully free. There is nothing you can do about it and then cry over the internet! Oh I see so we are out of touch yet you don't say where you live?? By the way in today's world everything is just a finger tip away with so much information being available at the blink of an eye. This isn't the 1970's anymore so get with the times. Million's of Pakistanis agree with me whilst they laugh at pro-Indian puppets who make a fool of themselves.

I think you need to watch more Pak TV to see the pro-Indian element who never see your beloved India do anything wrong!! Are you a diehard fan of the likes of Tariq Fatah as well who must be one of your great intellectual hero's as well. You don't have any tolerance of India but I see you refuse to call for any punishment for the sins they commit!! I think you are living in Delhi that I will remind you is not a part of Pakistan, nice try though! BOO....HOOOO...I am crying tears of blood here, well I have also often been called an Indian here by many people whenever I praise their cricketers or something like that so get over it!!

So you support a ban on Liaquat as well as wanting Hafiz in prison?? I see you have not said a word about Om, Doval, Adityanath, Kulbishan, Uma Bharti or Sadhvi Pragya or do you not know who they are?? Do you know anything about Hindu terrorism in Pakistan at all?? Well if there s no evidence of Indian involvement of KPK in your eyes then don't sell your Hafiz being a terrorist BS to a wise man like me!! There is plenty off evidence of Indian and RAW involvement in KPK for those who have eyes. There are supposed to be rules of engagement in war that you are obviously unaware off however if the enemy wants to hit us blow the belt then we will do the same as well. It is not Pakistan but your beloved India that is the greatest obstacle in solving the Kashmir quagmire, understood??

Once again Hafiz has never called for the annihilation of Bharat unlike your Indian buddies who are always threatening Pak with this or that. If every now and again the likes of Liaquat give them an adequate reply then they are to be congratulated. I am no fan of Hafiz type of Muslim's neither is this a religious rather political issue where Pakistan has been historically wronged. Your cheap attacks on Pak's living abroad do not change the facts on the ground. What do you then mean with your "shunned" crap other then Pakistan being left high and dry by the entire world community?? Are you suggesting that we will become another North Korea or something by not imprisoning Hafiz?? Let me tell you that the "major powers" you are on about will never side with us as they are responsible for this mess in the first place. You seriously need to grow up if you believe they will ever side with Muslim/Islamic Pakistan now, using Hafiz is just an excuse they use to justify Indian occupation. I do however agree that the Nawaz government has not at all handled the case in a mature and thoughtful manner.

Well you sure don't sound like being on Pak's side moreover if Hafiz is guilty then Pak has every right to demand Indian Hindu terrorist heads in return of the aforementioned people. Now, as I have said I am not the maulana type of Muslim at all however have never heard Hafiz make any anti India or anti Hindu statements. His support for Kashmir is not to be seen as being anti Indian at all like people like you seem to do. I truly believe he is a misunderstood by the masses especially his own people the Pakistanis. This is a forum, if you don't want to reply then refrain however don't tell me what I can or can not say as we have good mod's here who pay attention to every mail. If you are so sensitive to any criticism of your views then this isn't the place for you to be at all. I am not here to please you, being a passionate man I will not stop expressing my views just because people like you may have a problem with it.

 

[PakLFC]

It is simple with me that if guilty Hafiz has to be tried and found guilty by the Pakistani courts. If so I will have no problem in him rightfully being punished for any wrongs he has committed. As far as I know the courts have found no evidence of any wrong doing by him at all. Pakistan, being a sovereign country will never hand him over to India, it is not even an option. By the way what has India done when Hindu terrorists killed so many Pakistanis on the so called Samjhauta Express?? Nothing as far as I know.

 

[DW44]

You can keep beating your chest as much as you want and crying in your cornflakes but Hafiz is rightfully free. There is nothing you can do about it and then cry over the internet! Oh I see so we are out of touch yet you don't say where you live?? By the way in today's world everything is just a finger tip away with so much information being available at the blink of an eye. This isn't the 1970's anymore so get with the times. Million's of Pakistanis agree with me whilst they laugh at pro-Indian puppets who make a fool of themselves.

That is true. He's free and there's nothing we can do because our army supports extremists at the expense of the country's interests so by all means celebrate the terrorist walking free. Whether or not it's rightful is a completely different matter. Thank you for letting me know there's such a thing as TV in Pakistan because living here, I was completely unaware of that fact. And exactly, this isn't the 1970s. If the establishment thinks it can go about business as usual and everyone would gobble up the narrative being peddled by them through PTV. I don't care if all Pakistanis agree with you, it doesn't make the slightest difference. Millions of Pakistanis support a lot of ridiculous things but that doesn't make them any more acceptable. Besides, how would you even know that about a country you have spent virtually no time in.

I think you need to watch more Pak TV to see the pro-Indian element who never see your beloved India do anything wrong!! Are you a diehard fan of the likes of Tariq Fatah as well who must be one of your great intellectual hero's as well. You don't have any tolerance of India but I see you refuse to call for any punishment for the sins they commit!! I think you are living in Delhi that I will remind you is not a part of Pakistan, nice try though! BOO....HOOOO...I am crying tears of blood here, well I have also often been called an Indian here by many people whenever I praise their cricketers or something like that so get over it!!

[MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] [MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION] ye tu seedha seedha bhai ko Delhi may bitha dia hay.

Anyway, back on point, you have missed the point spectacularly once again. I am aware of the people you're referring to and who is known for what in the Pakistani media, what I'm doing here is categorically rejecting your ridiculous claim that large segments of the Pakistani media are working on an Indian agenda. I have lived here all my life and having faced that allegation myself, I know it to be a tactic employed by the Pakistani far right to discredit any liberal and/or dissenting voices by associating them with India. It works because there is no balance between liberal and conservative segments of the Pakistani state and society, the liberal element being non existent in the state and virtually non existent in the society too. There's no my beloved India, there's just Pakistan which I wish had gone a different route but, society of cavemen that we are, we consciously made a choice to be an extremist state and the results are there for all but the most delusional.

It's actually great that you brought up Tariq Fatah because that man has the same impact on my cause that Hafiz does on Kashmir i.e. through their antics they discredit the entire cause while claiming to be it's champions. Again, if you had actually read any of my posts here in the last eight years, you'd have known what I think about him.

So you support a ban on Liaquat as well as wanting Hafiz in prison?? I see you have not said a word about Om, Doval, Adityanath, Kulbishan, Uma Bharti or Sadhvi Pragya or do you not know who they are?? Do you know anything about Hindu terrorism in Pakistan at all?? Well if there s no evidence of Indian involvement of KPK in your eyes then don't sell your Hafiz being a terrorist BS to a wise man like me!! There is plenty off evidence of Indian and RAW involvement in KPK for those who have eyes. There are supposed to be rules of engagement in war that you are obviously unaware off however if the enemy wants to hit us blow the belt then we will do the same as well. It is not Pakistan but your beloved India that is the greatest obstacle in solving the Kashmir quagmire, understood??

Yes, I support a ban on Liaqat and Hafiz Saeed's imprisonment. I don't need to justify my stance to you, nor do I need to first rant about Indians before voicing my concerns about what my country is doing to establish my bona fides as a Pakistani. That's something the right wingers do and the right can do one as far as I'm concerned. I'm supremely secure in my identity as a Pakistani and my views as a liberal and I certainly don't need to qualify any of my criticisms of the Pakistani state with disclaimers that I feel the same way about their Indian counterparts. There are plenty of liberals in India for that.

If there's evidence of Indian involvement in Kashmir, bring it on, share it here, on this very page. If you can't, of which I have no doubt, by all means continue parroting the mantra, you're only embarrassing yourself. There are rules of engagement in a war. Pakistan is not in a state of war with India and there are no rules of engagement for proxy wars, these are won by the state that plays it's cards better and Pakistan has made every wrong move that it could.

Once again Hafiz has never called for the annihilation of Bharat unlike your Indian buddies who are always threatening Pak with this or that. If every now and again the likes of Liaquat give them an adequate reply then they are to be congratulated. I am no fan of Hafiz type of Muslim's neither is this a religious rather political issue where Pakistan has been historically wronged. Your cheap attacks on Pak's living abroad do not change the facts on the ground. What do you then mean with your "shunned" crap other then Pakistan being left high and dry by the entire world community?? Are you suggesting that we will become another North Korea or something by not imprisoning Hafiz?? Let me tell you that the "major powers" you are on about will never side with us as they are responsible for this mess in the first place. You seriously need to grow up if you believe they will ever side with Muslim/Islamic Pakistan now, using Hafiz is just an excuse they use to justify Indian occupation. I do however agree that the Nawaz government has not at all handled the case in a mature and thoughtful manner.

So? Am I supposed to care about whether or not Hafiz Saeed calls for the destruction of India? All I'm concerned with is that the state that runs on my tax Rupees is funding, arming and sheltering a terrorist. Beyond that, I could care less whether he calls for the destruction of some country or not.

I fail to see where I "attacked" what you call "Paks living abroad" because I didn't even mention them. My criticism was aimed squarely at foreigners of Pakistani origin such as yourselves who have spent hardly any time in Pakistan, have the most superficial understanding of the ground realities in Pakistan and the fact that they try to tell us Pakistanis what's going on around us. This is something not limited to me. Several Pakistanis on this forum who actually live in Pakistan have repeatedly expressed their frustration at you lot trying to tell us that you know the ground realities of our country better than us.

I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with conspiracy theories so I'm not even going to address the anti muslim Pakistan theory.

Well you sure don't sound like being on Pak's side moreover if Hafiz is guilty then Pak has every right to demand Indian Hindu terrorist heads in return of the aforementioned people. Now, as I have said I am not the maulana type of Muslim at all however have never heard Hafiz make any anti India or anti Hindu statements. His support for Kashmir is not to be seen as being anti Indian at all like people like you seem to do. I truly believe he is a misunderstood by the masses especially his own people the Pakistanis. This is a forum, if you don't want to reply then refrain however don't tell me what I can or can not say as we have good mod's here who pay attention to every mail. If you are so sensitive to any criticism of your views then this isn't the place for you to be at all. I am not here to please you, being a passionate man I will not stop expressing my views just because people like you may have a problem with it.

That might be because I don't care what I sound like to the extreme right of Pakistan. I love my country and want what's best for it and that includes asking questions of the state when it makes ridiculous decisions. I do not need to justify my patriotic credentials to you nor do I need to dial up the jingoism to get the extreme right to acknowledge my patriotism because as far as I'm concerned, the right wing "pro Pakistan"(again, quotation marks are important here) types are cancer to this country and they can do one. Fair enough about this being a forum, by all means continue ranting, no skin off my back. It's not like my views will change because of rants from the nationalist far right.

 

[DW44]

It is simple with me that if guilty Hafiz has to be tried and found guilty by the Pakistani courts. If so I will have no problem in him rightfully being punished for any wrongs he has committed. As far as I know the courts have found no evidence of any wrong doing by him at all. Pakistan, being a sovereign country will never hand him over to India, it is not even an option. By the way what has India done when Hindu terrorists killed so many Pakistanis on the so called Samjhauta Express?? Nothing as far as I know.

Since we know how the justice system in both India and Pakistan works and neither is any better than the other, would you acknowledge that Modi, since he's been acquitted of all charges by their courts, is innocent of the Gujarat massacre because if not, it's very disingenuous to suggest the same for Saeed and Pakistani courts. Just like Saeed and our courts, Indian courts also didn't find any evidence of Modi's culpability in the massacre so am I to understand that you consider Modi innocent of all charges?

 

[Nostalgic]

[MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] [MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION] ye tu seedha seedha bhai ko Delhi may bitha dia hay.

Surprised it took so long. Maybe he's sitting in Riyadh.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Since we know how the justice system in both India and Pakistan works and neither is any better than the other, would you acknowledge that Modi, since he's been acquitted of all charges by their courts, is innocent of the Gujarat massacre because if not, it's very disingenuous to suggest the same for Saeed and Pakistani courts. Just like Saeed and our courts, Indian courts also didn't find any evidence of Modi's culpability in the massacre so am I to understand that you consider Modi innocent of all charges?

So anytime America and India label someone a terrorist Pakistan should accept it and prepare the noose?

 

[Pakpak]

Since we know how the justice system in both India and Pakistan works and neither is any better than the other, would you acknowledge that Modi, since he's been acquitted of all charges by their courts, is innocent of the Gujarat massacre because if not, it's very disingenuous to suggest the same for Saeed and Pakistani courts. Just like Saeed and our courts, Indian courts also didn't find any evidence of Modi's culpability in the massacre so am I to understand that you consider Modi innocent of all charges?

I am surprised, well then again not really, of anyone defending Hafiz Saeed and his ilk. These people have proved cancerous to our image everywhere. They have done nothing for Kashmir and but their poisonous influence continues to plague our nation. DW, I don't know if you saw Liaqat's last few shows, completely defending the ridiculous blasphemous laws. No wonder one 'fatwa' from such 'scholars' end in deaths.

And PakLFC before you also call me an Indian lover, there is noone here in TP more than me who has had some very heated with Indians in the last year or so. But I am just tired of the religious brigade holding our country hostage and blaming ''liberals'' for everything.

 

[DW44]

I am surprised, well then again not really, of anyone defending Hafiz Saeed and his ilk. These people have proved cancerous to our image everywhere. They have done nothing for Kashmir and but their poisonous influence continues to plague our nation. DW, I don't know if you saw Liaqat's last few shows, completely defending the ridiculous blasphemous laws. No wonder one 'fatwa' from such 'scholars' end in deaths.

And PakLFC before you also call me an Indian lover, there is noone here in TP more than me who has had some very heated with Indians in the last year or so. But I am just tired of the religious brigade holding our country hostage and blaming ''liberals'' for everything.

Haven't watched recent episodes since I can't stand Arnab Goswami Lite screaming like a banshee. Saw the one where he made the blasphemy accusations and got rightly banned for it. Such accusations are essentially incitement to murder and there needs to be a zero tolerance policy towards Amir Liaqat in particular as at least three people have been killed in the past after he pulled a similar act on Geo. Last time there was a concerted media campaign of this sort involving blasphemy accusations, it was against Salman Taseer and we all know how that ended.

 

[PakLFC]

[MENTION=26195]DW44[/MENTION]

Couldn't be bothered quoting your tedious mail so have decided just to respond to it! Similarly supporting Hafiz does not make me an extremist when I don't even consider myself a devout Muslim. It is a matter of justice and doing the right thing. Modi is a different issue when he openly slaughtered Muslim's in Gujarat that is well documented, have you found any such open evidence against Hafiz or anyone else associated with him? We have Altaf Hussain sitting in the UK who Pak insists is a terrorist yet the British are unable to nail him which Pak has to accept as well. No one is supporting Hafiz at all as many above posters seems to be suggesting in their ridiculous mail's. What I am saying is that no one can be punished just because your Indian buddies want that to happen, no way!!

Yes you should note that Hafiz has never called for killing Indian people unlike the Hindu extremists I mentioned in my previous post. He may be crackpot for you, I have just seen a video of Pakistani Hindu's supporting all the good work he has done in Tharparkar for the vulnerable and downtrodden. What you people need to understand is that Hafiz can not be punished on the basis of blind rhetoric or your belief that he gives Pakistan a "bad image".

I believe it was post 39 where you originally mentioned something about Pakistanis living abroad that you have now edited, nice try!! How do you know that I've not spent anytime in Pakistan or when I was last there? You know nothing about me so keep your illogical assumptions to yourself!! Living abroad does not mean people like me are ignorant about Pakistan when you lot living there keep voting for the likes of Nawaz and Zardari!! Again I see that Najam Sethi type Pakistani patriots like you see nothing wrong in all the mayhem India creates in Pakistan, you only attack patriots like Hafiz, Liaquat who by the way is rightfully back on TV. I bet you also despise Zaid Hamid and Mubashar Lucman as well.

 

[PakLFC]

I am surprised, well then again not really, of anyone defending Hafiz Saeed and his ilk. These people have proved cancerous to our image everywhere. They have done nothing for Kashmir and but their poisonous influence continues to plague our nation. DW, I don't know if you saw Liaqat's last few shows, completely defending the ridiculous blasphemous laws. No wonder one 'fatwa' from such 'scholars' end in deaths.

And PakLFC before you also call me an Indian lover, there is noone here in TP more than me who has had some very heated with Indians in the last year or so. But I am just tired of the religious brigade holding our country hostage and blaming ''liberals'' for everything.

Well I am equally even more tired of such Pakistanis who are quick to blame there own people without a shread of evidence. If you have read my mail's here you will know that I am a fair minded man who has no problem in giving credit to individual Indian's. As a country I can't stand India. Problem with what you say is that anyone who says Hafiz is innocent is seen as a terrorist lover!

 

[PakLFC]

Responding to a query on the subject at hand Imran Khan on one of his visits to India told them that there has been no evidence found against Hafiz by our courts. He further rightfully told them that being a sovereign country there is no chance of Pakistan ever handing him over to India even if and when he became PM, excellent! After all the much weaker Afghanistan didn't hand Osama over to the super power of the world, will India hand us the perpetrators of the Samjhauta express incident! I don't think so.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Hafiz Saeed 'Spreading Terrorism In The Name Of Jihad,' Says Pakistan


Mumbai terror attack mastermind and Lashkar-e-Taiba chief Hafiz Saeed and his four aides have been detained by Pakistan for "spreading terrorism in the name of jihad". Pakistan's home ministry, which levelled the charge, produced him before a three-member board judicial review board that's headed by Pakistan Supreme Court judge Ejaz Afzal Khan and comprises two other senior judges. Appearing before it yesterday, Hafiz Saeed said he had been detained by the Pakistan government to stop him for raising voice for Kashmiris.

Pakistan's home ministry, however, rejected his arguments and told the board that Saeed and his four aides have been detained for "spreading terrorism in the name of jihad".

The government's move came after a division bench of Lahore High Court questioned last week why Hafiz Saeed and the others weren't presented before a review board before the government extended his detention for another 90 days.

For years, Hafiz Saeed has been running free in Pakistan despite India presenting proof of his involvement in the Mumbai terror attacks, in which 166 people were killed.

In January, Pakistani authorities detained him and put him under house arrest for six months. There were speculations that the crackdown came after the US threatened sanctions unless Pakistan took action against Jaamat ud Dawa, which is also headed by Hafiz Saeed.

Saeed and his aides have contended that Pakistan detained them without any legal justification to please India and the United States. Yesterday, the Pakistan government admitted to the board that the government detained the JuD leaders "on pressure of United Nations and international organisations".

The board asked the ministry to submit a complete record regarding detention of the five men and asked the Attorney General of Pakistan to be present during the next hearing on May 15.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/hafi...oduced-before-pakistan-judicial-board-1693376

 

[adit_sh]

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/hafi...oduced-before-pakistan-judicial-board-1693376

any neutral or Pak source ?

 

[big_gamer007]

Ultimately his organisation would break or some people will go from his organisation and turn against Pakistan and cause terrorist attacked in Pakistan and kill your children and relatives.. Ofcourse then it would be blamed on us but it's the inevitable that has to happen when you shield terrorists like saeed..

 

[Gabbar Singh]

any neutral or Pak source ?

You know what, having checked there's absolutely nothing about this anywhere online at non Indian sources. I know the Indian media have a certain reputation but one would hope they wouldn't just make a story like this up especially with the level of detail they write about. Mmm lets see...

 

[adit_sh]

You know what, having checked there's absolutely nothing about this anywhere online at non Indian sources. I know the Indian media have a certain reputation but one would hope they wouldn't just make a story like this up especially with the level of detail they write about. Mmm lets see...

usually TOI, NDTV and some other news e-print shows up lot of anti-pak statements and highlight it. They may not cook up but they may be quoting some unreliable source. To me their page rank is very poor