Pakistan trying to improve diplomatic ties with Bangladesh?

[Abdullah719]

Prime Minister Imran Khan has penned a letter to his Bangladeshi counterpart Sheikh Hasina Wajed, extending his congratulations on the country's national day.

"I extend my congratulations on Bangladesh's national day," said the premier in the letter sent on Thursday.

The premier noted that both countries desire peace, stability and progress in the region.

"In the days to come, Pakistan and Bangladesh can further strengthen relations with one another," said PM Imran.

He conveyed his best wishes to the people of Bangladesh.

Independence Day celebrations were canceled in Bangladesh due to the ongoing coronavirus crisis, reported Dhaka Tribune.

Data from Johns Hopkins University shows that the outbreak in the country has been relatively less severe, with 48 reported cases and 5 deaths.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/279479-pm...gladeshi-counterpart-on-countrys-national-day

 

[Bigboii]

Wooh is it right for sitting Pak PM to congratulate BD on its "independence" or it's part of moving forward?

 

[Lonewarrior]

Wooh is it right for sitting Pak PM to congratulate BD on its "independence" or it's part of moving forward?

Its not only IK who did this, many PM, President done that before, the fact is we have moved on, BD govt didnt ....

 

[pakistanisgreat]

is not BD independence day on Dec 16?
correct me if i am wrong.

 

[Caved12]

Wooh is it right for sitting Pak PM to congratulate BD on its "independence" or it's part of moving forward?

Why not? What is our beef with Bangladesh?

 

[sweep_shot]

is not BD independence day on Dec 16?
correct me if i am wrong.

December 16 is Victory Day while March 25 is Independence Day.

 

[sweep_shot]

Good gesture from Imran Khan. Not sure how Hasina took it. Hopefully relation becomes better at political level.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Good gesture from Imran Khan. Not sure how Hasina took it. Hopefully relation becomes better at political level.

She probably contacted Mr Modi's office for advice on what she should say in reply.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Good gesture from Imran Khan. Not sure how Hasina took it. Hopefully relation becomes better at political level.

When she's gone, I'm sure they will improve

 

[Ronaldo7]

Why not? What is our beef with Bangladesh?

No beef but it isn't it pretty obvious?

 

[sweep_shot]

When she's gone, I'm sure they will improve

Yes. Most likely.

Hasina and Awami League milk 1971 same way Donald Trump milks border wall. It is all about staying in power.

Hasina is not really popular in BD currently. She is pretty much a dictator right now.

 

[Bigboii]

No beef but it isn't it pretty obvious?

Lots of younger people including me didn't now our history with Bangladesh which also shows that we moved forward like its not something that's discussed much (the topic of Bangladesh) but that makes me think if our relationship with Bangladesh as PEOPLE is not that bad than whats the deal with India why is it that there is so much hatred between us and them

 

[Bigboii]

Yes. Most likely.

Hasina and Awami League milk 1971 same way Donald Trump milks border wall. It is all about staying in power.

Hasina is not really popular in BD currently. She is pretty much a dictator right now.

but the economy is doing very good under her

 

[sweep_shot]

but the economy is doing very good under her

She is holding onto her power by force. She silences all oppositions. There is no democracy currently. It is effectively a one party nation currently.

Economy is doing well and that's the only positive thing.

 

[Abdullah719]

Pakistan, Bangladesh hold talks in possible thaw

DHAKA: Top diplomats of Bangladesh and Pakistan held talks recently to promote bilateral relations in a possible thaw, according to official sources.

"Both sides agreed to promote bilateral relations with a forward-looking approach," Pakistan's High Commissioner in Dhaka Imran Ahmed Siddiqui told Anadolu Agency on Wednesday.

Bangladesh gained independence from Pakistan in 1971 following an armed conflict. Relations between the two countries, separated by large swathes of Indian territory, have since been frosty.

Referring to the talks with Bangladeshi Foreign Minister AK Abdul Momen on July 1, Siddiqui added: “The two sides briefed each other on the Covid-19 situation in their respective countries and precautionary and preventive measures being taken.”

Siddiqui said: “Pakistan believes there is a huge potential in bilateral economic and commercial cooperation. We must work together to realise this potential with a focus on bringing our respective private sectors closer.”

“We want stronger relations with brotherly Bangladesh in all walks of life. We share common bonds of history, religion and culture,” he added.

The Bangladeshi Foreign Ministry did not issue a statement about the meeting.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2254044/pakistan-bangladesh-hold-talks-in-possible-thaw

 

[IAJ]

Good initiative.

 

[Syed1]

The Bangladeshi Foreign Ministry did not issue a statement about the meeting.

Sheikh Hasina being Sheikh Hasina

 

[finalfantasy7]

Pakistan, Bangladesh hold talks in possible thaw

DHAKA: Top diplomats of Bangladesh and Pakistan held talks recently to promote bilateral relations in a possible thaw, according to official sources.

"Both sides agreed to promote bilateral relations with a forward-looking approach," Pakistan's High Commissioner in Dhaka Imran Ahmed Siddiqui told Anadolu Agency on Wednesday.

Bangladesh gained independence from Pakistan in 1971 following an armed conflict. Relations between the two countries, separated by large swathes of Indian territory, have since been frosty.

Referring to the talks with Bangladeshi Foreign Minister AK Abdul Momen on July 1, Siddiqui added: “The two sides briefed each other on the Covid-19 situation in their respective countries and precautionary and preventive measures being taken.”

Siddiqui said: “Pakistan believes there is a huge potential in bilateral economic and commercial cooperation. We must work together to realise this potential with a focus on bringing our respective private sectors closer.”

“We want stronger relations with brotherly Bangladesh in all walks of life. We share common bonds of history, religion and culture,” he added.

The Bangladeshi Foreign Ministry did not issue a statement about the meeting.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2254044/pakistan-bangladesh-hold-talks-in-possible-thaw

what do we need from them and what do they need from us? which goods

 

[SensiblePakFan]

what do we need from them and what do they need from us? which goods

What we need realistically is to combine army resources and stop wasting money, like Nato for Europe, but that aint ever happening.

 

[Abdullah719]

Pakistan in diplomatic push to reset ties with Bangladesh

Pakistan is quietly making efforts to mend its ties with Bangladesh after certain developments in the region have provided a window of opportunity to both countries to seek rapprochement.

Diplomatic sources familiar with the development believe that the current regional environment has compelled Islamabad and Dhaka to seek reengagement.

Relations between the two countries have remained tense for the last many years. The two countries have yet to overcome the bitter memories of 1971 events that led to the creation of Bangladesh.

Spoiler

What led to the current low in their ties was the decision taken a few years ago by the incumbent government of Shaikh Hasina Wajid to try and execute several leaders of Bangladesh Jamaat-e-Islami on charges of committing war crimes in 1971.

Pakistan was against such what it called politically motivated trials. It also accused Dhaka of violating the 1974 trilateral agreement between Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. Under the agreement, all countries including Bangladesh had agreed not to pursue cases against people involved in the 1971 events.

Relationship between the two countries worsened to the extent that Pakistan's National Assembly in 2016 passed a unanimous resolution condemning the execution of JI leaders.

Not just that the Bangladesh government refused to approve the appointment of Pakistani High Commissioner for 20 months. Islamabad eventually had to make the fresh proposal for the appointment of Imran Ahmed Siddiqui as envoy to Dhaka. His name was finally approved by Dhaka in November last year. Siddiqui joined the Pakistani mission in Dhaka in January, raising hopes of a thaw in their ties.

Earlier this month, Pakistani envoy held a rare meeting with Bangladeshi Foreign Minister AK Abdul Momen. Foreign Office sources were cautious about calling the meeting as "breakthrough" or whether this would lead to breaking the ice.

One of the reasons that foreign office sources were playing down the outreach was to avoid creating unnecessary hype and allowing "spoilers" to undermine such efforts.

Indian media reports expressed alarm over the meeting between Pakistani envoy and Bangladeshi foreign minister, claiming Islamabad was trying to take advantage of India's preoccupation with other issues.

New Delhi and Dhaka have longstanding ties and those relations further deepened when Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi came to power in May 2014. India has exercised great influence over Bangladesh and took full advantage of PM Shaikh Hasina Wajid's mistrust with Pakistan.

But India and Bangladesh ties suffered a major blow when Modi government last year passed a controversial Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA). The law had triggered massive protests in Bangladesh and in March, Modi had to cancel his visit because of growing anti-India sentiments.

In the middle of this, China also made inroads in Bangladesh by offering economic and other partnership. Dhaka is already part of Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). Recently, Beijing allowed Bangladesh to export goods to China with zero tariffs. Similarly, China has been assisting Bangladesh dealing with Covid-19 pandemic.

As a result of this cooperation, Bangladesh surprisingly kept quiet over the recent military standoff between India and China. Dhaka even did not offer condolences to India over the killing of its 20 soldiers including a Colonel during a bloody fight with China in the high altitude Ladakh region.

Observers believe that the changing dynamics offered a good opportunity for Pakistan and Bangladesh to revisit their troubled ties.

A senior foreign office official said Pakistan wants to reset ties with Bangladesh. The official, however, said this reset was not aimed at any other country.

"Pakistan and Bangladesh share common bonds of history, culture and religion," the official said adding that, "there is a strong desire on both sides to strengthen bilateral relations."

There is a growing sense in Pakistan that the younger generation is especially keen to forge meaningful ties.

Also, Pakistan is appreciative of Bangladesh's "remarkable economic achievements," said the official.

At the same time, there is an acknowledgement that events of 1971 are the most painful chapter of the two countries' common history.

"Closer people to people contacts between two peoples will promote reconciliation and mutual understanding. This will heal the wounds of the past," Pakistani official stressed.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2255657/pakistan-in-diplomatic-push-to-reset-ties-with-bangladesh

 

[the Great Khan]

If two people can do it it is Sheikh Hasina and Imran Khan. We really need to do this.

 

[hamid.s]

Surprised at sudden thaw in tone from Awami League and Hasina. Lately the country is aligning a bit more towards China and maybe that's why also re evaluating her ties with Pakistan.

"There is a growing sense in Pakistan that the younger generation is especially keen to forge meaningful ties." This line from the above article is extremely true as far as Bangladeshi populace is concerned (not sure what Pakistani counterparts think). The general population (besides some very few but very vocal ultra nationalists online) prefers normal and robust relationship with Pakistan.

Besides just trade, a lot of them wants cultural exchanges and university opportunities between the two countries.

 

[Nostalgic]

This was always on the cards, following recent events: CAA, China wooing Bangladesh et al.

Does Bangladesh covet any territory currently under Humsaaya Mulk occupation? Parts of Assam perhaps? Could they threaten the famed Chicken's Neck if need be?

 

[Napa]

Pakistan doesn't really have any more relevance to Bangladesh, than say Iran or Afghanistan.

Pakistan is now part of the Middle East with its dictators and militaries with outsize influence in civilian matters.

Bangladesh is getting to be more and more like South East Asia, countries in the neighborhood like Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam. Countries with semi-dictatorial leaders focussed on economic growth and becoming manufacturing powerhouses.

Pakistan always was more like a Middle Eastern country with its military dominating civilian affairs. Bangladesh is becoming more like the countries in its neighborhood. There are no significant common interests (Bangladesh doesn't want to pick an unnecessary fight with India which will be very costly for it economically) and with time the only thing that will make the Bangladesh-Pakistan relationship "special" is the bad memory of the 1971 war and genocide.

 

[msb314]

None of the middle eastern countries have “military dominating civilian affairs”

Except maybe Israel but even them have a strong civilian government and institutions...

The only thing we have in common with the middle eastern countries is Sunni Islam. Otherwise - we are worlds apart in terms of governance, culture, economy, social structure etc.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Pakistan doesn't really have any more relevance to Bangladesh, than say Iran or Afghanistan.

Pakistan is now part of the Middle East with its dictators and militaries with outsize influence in civilian matters.

Bangladesh is getting to be more and more like South East Asia, countries in the neighborhood like Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam. Countries with semi-dictatorial leaders focussed on economic growth and becoming manufacturing powerhouses.

Pakistan always was more like a Middle Eastern country with its military dominating civilian affairs. Bangladesh is becoming more like the countries in its neighborhood. There are no significant common interests (Bangladesh doesn't want to pick an unnecessary fight with India which will be very costly for it economically) and with time the only thing that will make the Bangladesh-Pakistan relationship "special" is the bad memory of the 1971 war and genocide.

With the exception of Egypt the Middle Eastern countries dont have military dictatorships. Do you know another Military with outside influence in civilian matters is Myanmar, a neighbor of Bangladesh?

What about Thailand, there army has been meddling for decades?

And Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, the other South East Asian countries, they have as much democracy as the Middle Eastern countries. So if you think they are semi-dictatorial, then the same should go for the bulk of the Middle Eastern countries.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Pakistan doesn't really have any more relevance to Bangladesh, than say Iran or Afghanistan.

Pakistan is now part of the Middle East with its dictators and militaries with outsize influence in civilian matters.

Bangladesh is getting to be more and more like South East Asia, countries in the neighborhood like Thailand, Malaysia and Vietnam. Countries with semi-dictatorial leaders focussed on economic growth and becoming manufacturing powerhouses.

Pakistan always was more like a Middle Eastern country with its military dominating civilian affairs. Bangladesh is becoming more like the countries in its neighborhood. There are no significant common interests (Bangladesh doesn't want to pick an unnecessary fight with India which will be very costly for it economically) and with time the only thing that will make the Bangladesh-Pakistan relationship "special" is the bad memory of the 1971 war and genocide.

Yet when Pakistan and India play in Bangladesh, the crowd always supports Pakistan. There is no ill will among the Pakistani people towards Bangladesh, and the feeling is probably mutual. Pakistan should apologize again for there role in denying Bengali's right to form government in 1971 and for the their role in killing innocent civilians. It would also be nice if Bangladesh acknowledges their role in killing Urdu Speaking Muslims in Bangladesh as well, however regardless if they do or not Pakistan should take the lead in trying to improve relations.

 

[hamid.s]

This was always on the cards, following recent events: CAA, China wooing Bangladesh et al.

Does Bangladesh covet any territory currently under Humsaaya Mulk occupation? Parts of Assam perhaps? Could they threaten the famed Chicken's Neck if need be?

Bangladesh does not covet any territory. There are border disputes and some maze like regions that overlaps the two countries but it BD realizes it can't covet let alone lay claim to any territory. Just because of the sheer military between India and BD. Even compared to Pak, our military is small and not as well invested or equipped. Maybe it's better that way as more money can be or has been invested in social services rather than on military.

Besides the border, the other major issues are water sharing agreement. Most of the river that runs through Bangladesh originates in India. Technically, it starts from India, runs through BD, and ends in Bay of Bengal. Another is the transit agreement where India will ship goods through BD to her northeastern states. These two are hotly debated and the major grievances in Bangladesh.

Pakistan and Bangladesh should resume normal relationships on the basis of trades. That should be the first step and then more cultural and educational exchanges should take place.

BD will not be involved militarily with either Pak or India.

 

[hamid.s]

Yet when Pakistan and India play in Bangladesh, the crowd always supports Pakistan. There is no ill will among the Pakistani people towards Bangladesh, and the feeling is probably mutual. Pakistan should apologize again for there role in denying Bengali's right to form government in 1971 and for the their role in killing innocent civilians. It would also be nice if Bangladesh acknowledges their role in killing Urdu Speaking Muslims in Bangladesh as well, however regardless if they do or not Pakistan should take the lead in trying to improve relations.

In general yes. Most have either a neutral or positive view of Pak.

On killing Urdu speaking people, it's a bit more nuanced. Most of the Pakistanis left Dhaka/Chittagong before the war just when they sensed situation was getting worse. They were well off to begin as most of them moved East either for business, industries, or worked in govt jobs. The other well to do migrants were ethnically Bengalis who lived in West Bengal or other parts of India but since they spoke Bengali they were easily assimilated.

But the vast majority of the migrants were the Urdu speaking people from Bihar. They were neither West Pakistani or East Pakistani. They spoke the language of West Pakistan (Urdu) but moved to East due to its proximity and circumstances. They were discriminated, harassed, and killed. I have to acknowledge that despite of my natural bias.

In recent years, they are assimilating and are becoming part of the mainstream culture. It took longer than it expected and more progress and help is needed. But being a third world country to begin with, it is hard to uplift or improve their situation massively when other Bengalis are still struggling.

 

[Nostalgic]

Bangladesh does not covet any territory. There are border disputes and some maze like regions that overlaps the two countries but it BD realizes it can't covet let alone lay claim to any territory. Just because of the sheer military between India and BD. Even compared to Pak, our military is small and not as well invested or equipped. Maybe it's better that way as more money can be or has been invested in social services rather than on military.

Besides the border, the other major issues are water sharing agreement. Most of the river that runs through Bangladesh originates in India. Technically, it starts from India, runs through BD, and ends in Bay of Bengal. Another is the transit agreement where India will ship goods through BD to her northeastern states. These two are hotly debated and the major grievances in Bangladesh.

Pakistan and Bangladesh should resume normal relationships on the basis of trades. That should be the first step and then more cultural and educational exchanges should take place.

BD will not be involved militarily with either Pak or India.

Think about it though: if BD and Nepal gravitate into the Chinese orbit, wouldn’t a BD-Nepal pincer movement against the Chicken’s Neck be tempting? Don’t you want land borders with Nepal and Bhutan to visit all those scenic locations without having to pass through the Humsaaya Mulk? You guys should seriously consider it.

 

[Pakpak]

Think about it though: if BD and Nepal gravitate into the Chinese orbit, wouldn’t a BD-Nepal pincer movement against the Chicken’s Neck be tempting? Don’t you want land borders with Nepal and Bhutan to visit all those scenic locations without having to pass through the Humsaaya Mulk? You guys should seriously consider it.

I don't think sadly they can even if they wanted to. BD's military barely has a 100 combat planes and not even 150,000 men. Same for Nepal whose military is even more non existent.

 

[Nostalgic]

I don't think sadly they can even if they wanted to. BD's military barely has a 100 combat planes and not even 150,000 men. Same for Nepal whose military is even more non existent.

What a shame. The overworked Chinese will have to do all the work to make this happen.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

In general yes. Most have either a neutral or positive view of Pak.

On killing Urdu speaking people, it's a bit more nuanced. Most of the Pakistanis left Dhaka/Chittagong before the war just when they sensed situation was getting worse. They were well off to begin as most of them moved East either for business, industries, or worked in govt jobs. The other well to do migrants were ethnically Bengalis who lived in West Bengal or other parts of India but since they spoke Bengali they were easily assimilated.

But the vast majority of the migrants were the Urdu speaking people from Bihar. They were neither West Pakistani or East Pakistani. They spoke the language of West Pakistan (Urdu) but moved to East due to its proximity and circumstances. They were discriminated, harassed, and killed. I have to acknowledge that despite of my natural bias.

In recent years, they are assimilating and are becoming part of the mainstream culture. It took longer than it expected and more progress and help is needed. But being a third world country to begin with, it is hard to uplift or improve their situation massively when other Bengalis are still struggling.

I'm glad they are assimilating. My family is Urdu Speaking from Karachi. So the issue of the "Stranded Pakistanis" has been an issue that gets attention there.

The Urdu Speaking people wanted them to come to Pakistan, but due to Sindhi's they never could come. So that's the best option now that they simply become Bengali's through assimilation, and since now they all speak Bengali and the religion is the same hopefully it should not be too difficult.

And while Urdu Speaking were not native to either West or East Pakistan, they had no other country after 1947. So they should have been viewed as migrants.

 

[sweep_shot]

Yet when Pakistan and India play in Bangladesh, the crowd always supports Pakistan. There is no ill will among the Pakistani people towards Bangladesh, and the feeling is probably mutual. Pakistan should apologize again for there role in denying Bengali's right to form government in 1971 and for the their role in killing innocent civilians. It would also be nice if Bangladesh acknowledges their role in killing Urdu Speaking Muslims in Bangladesh as well, however regardless if they do or not Pakistan should take the lead in trying to improve relations.

Well said.

I think it is time to move forward and start having trade relations and other relations. No point in having a beef over something that happened almost 50 years ago.

Regarding treatment of Urdu-speaking people in Bangladesh, I hope we make things right. They are our fellow Muslims and mistreating them is really not fair. I hope Hasina will help them to integrate with society further.

 

[Nostalgic]

BD posters have mentioned Sheikh Hasina ruling as an autocrat. Do any alternatives exist? Is the BNP totally irrelevant electorally? Any other parties on the horizon? I remember not too long ago how AL and BNP used to alternate in power every election cycle, so what caused the pattern to break?

 

[sweep_shot]

BD posters have mentioned Sheikh Hasina ruling as an autocrat. Do any alternatives exist? Is the BNP totally irrelevant electorally? Any other parties on the horizon? I remember not too long ago how AL and BNP used to alternate in power every election cycle, so what caused the pattern to break?

No real alternative exists currently. Hasina doesn't allow any alternative. All opponents get shunned.

In the past, there were other parties. BNP, Jatiya Party (Ershad was the leader), and Jamaat-e-Islami.

BNP is the only party that can really challenge Awami League but they got weaker over the years.

 

[hamid.s]

Think about it though: if BD and Nepal gravitate into the Chinese orbit, wouldn’t a BD-Nepal pincer movement against the Chicken’s Neck be tempting? Don’t you want land borders with Nepal and Bhutan to visit all those scenic locations without having to pass through the Humsaaya Mulk? You guys should seriously consider it.

One has to be rational. BD and Nepal doesn't have the military might to stand against India. That's the reality. Additionally, those regions are scenic for sure but we don't have natural connection or claim to those lands. You have to understand that both Pak and BD were created along religious lines. And BD will not try to take any land that will make them lose their either Muslim or Bengali majority.

It's better to invest the money on social services, education, and infrastructure rather than the military to lay claim to some backwater but beautiful regions of India. To be honest, no one in Bangladesh ever even thinks about that.

In this day and age, annexation just doesn't happen. Unless you are Russia taking over Crimea or some major military superpower.

 

[Nostalgic]

One has to be rational. BD and Nepal doesn't have the military might to stand against India. That's the reality. Additionally, those regions are scenic for sure but we don't have natural connection or claim to those lands. You have to understand that both Pak and BD were created along religious lines. And BD will not try to take any land that will make them lose their either Muslim or Bengali majority.

It's better to invest the money on social services, education, and infrastructure rather than the military to lay claim to some backwater but beautiful regions of India. To be honest, no one in Bangladesh ever even thinks about that.

In this day and age, annexation just doesn't happen. Unless you are Russia taking over Crimea or some major military superpower.

Don’t worry, it was a tongue-in-cheek comment

That said, I’m sure the Chinese are interested in the Chicken’s Neck: it’s too tempting not to. If only Sikkim hadn’t gone to the Humsaaya Mulk in 1975, there would be even more potential.

 

[Nostalgic]

No real alternative exists currently. Hasina doesn't allow any alternative. All opponents get shunned.

In the past, there were other parties. BNP, Jatiya Party (Ershad was the leader), and Jamaat-e-Islami.

BNP is the only party that can really challenge Awami League but they got weaker over the years.

Sure, but I’m trying to understand how this state of affairs came about.

 

[hamid.s]

I'm glad they are assimilating. My family is Urdu Speaking from Karachi. So the issue of the "Stranded Pakistanis" has been an issue that gets attention there.

The Urdu Speaking people wanted them to come to Pakistan, but due to Sindhi's they never could come. So that's the best option now that they simply become Bengali's through assimilation, and since now they all speak Bengali and the religion is the same hopefully it should not be too difficult.

And while Urdu Speaking were not native to either West or East Pakistan, they had no other country after 1947. So they should have been viewed as migrants.

They still speak Urdu among themselves. I live nearby some neighborhoods that are predominantly Biharis. It's not surprising to hear Urdu in some restaurants and stores nearby. But they communicate with us in Bangla.

On a related note, some Pakistanis remained in Dhaka. They had already way too much invested to leave. I grew up with few such friends. But as it has been few generations, they now consider them Bangladeshis with Pakistani roots. Athar Ali Khan (ex player/commentator) is one such example. He still has families in Karachi but is very much Bangladeshi.

 

[hamid.s]

Sure, but I’m trying to understand how this state of affairs came about.

That will take pages upon pages to answer.

In short, BNP was extremely corrupt during their time in power. Khaleda Zia (then PM) and her son Tarek Zia siphoned huge sums of money out of the country. Tarek came to known as Mr. 10% meaning any industry or investment had to pay him 10% to get approval.

So people got extremely frustrated. They voted in Awami League. Tarek fled to UK and Hasina jailed Khaleda Zia. And BNP became leaderless. Over the years, Hasina shrewdly choked off BNP's activities.

Coincidentally or not, economy started to do well. GDP grew rapidly over the years. Hasina declared few major projects (Padma Bridge wholly financed by Bangladesh, Dhaka elevated subway system etc.) and people started caring about who is in power and was okay with better economic situation rather than quote unquote western style democracy.

 

[Nostalgic]

That will take pages upon pages to answer.

In short, BNP was extremely corrupt during their time in power. Khaleda Zia (then PM) and her son Tarek Zia siphoned huge sums of money out of the country. Tarek came to known as Mr. 10% meaning any industry or investment had to pay him 10% to get approval.

So people got extremely frustrated. They voted in Awami League. Tarek fled to UK and Hasina jailed Khaleda Zia. And BNP became leaderless. Over the years, Hasina shrewdly choked off BNP's activities.

Coincidentally or not, economy started to do well. GDP grew rapidly over the years. Hasina declared few major projects (Padma Bridge wholly financed by Bangladesh, Dhaka elevated subway system etc.) and people started caring about who is in power and was okay with better economic situation rather than quote unquote western style democracy.

Thanks. Given her barely concealed tilt towards the Humsaaya Mulk, weaning her away from them would be quite a feat and would take some doing. I hope she’s pragmatic enough.

 

[sweep_shot]

Sure, but I’m trying to understand how this state of affairs came about.

Turning point was BNP's last tenure.

They did so much corruptions that they were under the pump. Awami League capitalized on that and they never looked back. BNP was pretty much finished.

I personally want to see a new party with a new leader like Pakistan's PTI. I want to see new people leading with new visions. Old status quo needs to be abolished.

 

[hamid.s]

Thanks. Given her barely concealed tilt towards the Humsaaya Mulk, weaning her away from them would be quite a feat and would take some doing. I hope she’s pragmatic enough.

sorry but what is Humsaaya Mulk? I am not familiar with this term and a brief a google search didn't return anything substantial.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

sorry but what is Humsaaya Mulk? I am not familiar with this term and a brief a google search didn't return anything substantial.

Neighboring Country.

 

[Syed1]

sorry but what is Humsaaya Mulk? I am not familiar with this term and a brief a google search didn't return anything substantial.

Neighboring country of Pakistan to the east and Bangladesh to the west.

 

[ElRaja]

pakistan would do well to work on relations with bangladesh, there are some older generation people who still hold racist views, but most of the younger generation, the ones who make an effort to stay educated on matters at least, realise bangladesh is doing well and would be a good country to have on side.

other than an unfortunate history both countries hardly have anything that would be a bone of contention now.

sorry but what is Humsaaya Mulk? I am not familiar with this term and a brief a google search didn't return anything substantial.

it is urdu for "neighbour country", refering to india, as a pakistani

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

All I want is to have really good relationship with Bangladesh without any ulterior motive. There's natural love and feeling of brotherhood with the people of Bangladesh.

 

[Markhor]

Interesting posts from our Bangladeshi brothers.

A reset in Pakistan-Bangladesh relations would be fantastic. Hope to see closer trading and cultural ties.

 

[Greenstorm]

Think about it though: if BD and Nepal gravitate into the Chinese orbit, wouldn’t a BD-Nepal pincer movement against the Chicken’s Neck be tempting? Don’t you want land borders with Nepal and Bhutan to visit all those scenic locations without having to pass through the Humsaaya Mulk? You guys should seriously consider it.

BD and Nepal cannot make any such move. India can invade and capture Dhaka-Kathmandu in days.

We cannot expect Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh type countries to do our job. What ISI should have done was to establish itself in these countries (Myanmar as well) and used them as bases to wreak havoc in North Eastern Indian states. That would have been our check to Indian activities in Afghanistan and Iran.

We can still do it but vision and guts are required.

 

[Nostalgic]

sorry but what is Humsaaya Mulk? I am not familiar with this term and a brief a google search didn't return anything substantial.

My compatriots have already indicated which country it is, but there’s more to the story. In the 90s, TV and radio would refuse to mention the country in question by name, instead using the euphemistic phrase “Humsaaya Mulk,” and it was always for the Eastern neighbor, never for Afghanistan, Iran or China. It came across as borderline paranoid, but I use it now for ironic efffect, and as an homage to those halcyon days.

 

[Syed1]

All I want is to have really good relationship with Bangladesh without any ulterior motive. There's natural love and feeling of brotherhood with the people of Bangladesh.

We have lots of reason to be apologetic as well

 

[hamid.s]

ah I see. thanks for the responses.

despite the bloody past, it is in the best interest of both countries to have close ties. I obviously have tremendous love for my country and hold personal views about the war, bengali language, and overall discrimination of the Bengali people. It is natural for anyone to have such strong views about their own country I believe.

But I have realized and understood my resentment is for Pak military and the Islamabad leadership/elite of that time. I have countless Pakistani friends through Uni, professional life, and also religious activities. If I am not mistaken, the general Pakistani people do not hold such racist and discriminatory views towards Bengalis and considers the relationship to be brotherly. I have deep grudges but it is only for the military and the political elites.

I think the general public by large feels the same. Of course there are some heated exchanges and banters in cricket or other areas where things tends to get carried away. But a Pakistani would feel extremely welcomed in any parts of Bangladesh, to the extent of a long lost brother.

Here is a recent clip between Wasim Akram and Tamim Iqbal (and Akram Khan/ Minhajul Abedin / Khaled Masud) where even Wasim acknowledges and feels how he felt about his time in Bangladesh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8osUwvTRD0

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

We have lots of reason to be apologetic as well

Agreed in full. If I ever have a business, Kashmiris, Palestinians, and Bangladeshi people will get an extra special discount. InshAllah

I just hope that we have learned the lessons and don't let the same happen in other places where our parrosis are trying very hard to create unnecessary conflict.

 

[Napa]

With the exception of Egypt the Middle Eastern countries dont have military dictatorships. Do you know another Military with outside influence in civilian matters is Myanmar, a neighbor of Bangladesh?

What about Thailand, there army has been meddling for decades?

And Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, the other South East Asian countries, they have as much democracy as the Middle Eastern countries. So if you think they are semi-dictatorial, then the same should go for the bulk of the Middle Eastern countries.

You either give power to the military or you give power to the entrepreneurs. You can't have both. China has tried to keep power in the Communist Party which has shared it with the capitalists. Long-term whether the Chinese model will work is unknown. The Southeast Asian countries have been marked by increasing power given to the capitalists. The Mideast countries other than Egypt may not explicitly have military dictatorships, but effectively are military dictatorships with the military the instrument of keeping power for the ruling family/dictator. Iran is an exception, with power being shared by the unelected religious establishment and the elected President.

The thing which makes Pakistan more like the Mideast than Southeast Asia is that power has not been given to the capitalists. This means they are targets of shakedowns unless they have political/military protection, like Malik Riaz of Bahria Town who had to pay a $3 billion "fine". Capitalists cannot be successful if they don't have the capital for further expansion.

Bangladesh is currently behaving like other Southeast Asian countries. Let's see if that persists after Hasina is gone.

Yet when Pakistan and India play in Bangladesh, the crowd always supports Pakistan. There is no ill will among the Pakistani people towards Bangladesh, and the feeling is probably mutual. Pakistan should apologize again for there role in denying Bengali's right to form government in 1971 and for the their role in killing innocent civilians. It would also be nice if Bangladesh acknowledges their role in killing Urdu Speaking Muslims in Bangladesh as well, however regardless if they do or not Pakistan should take the lead in trying to improve relations.

Cricket is rather irrelevant when it comes to the important decisions. It certainly isn't enough to get Bangladesh to form an anti-India military alliance with Pakistan like some posters here (@SensiblePakFan, [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION], [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] etc) dream of.

It is not as if Pakistanis and Bangladeshis feel any ethnic or cultural (other than Sunni Islam) kinship. Amir Niazi, who served as head of the Pakistani Forces in East Pakistan in 1971, referred to the region as a "low-lying land of low-lying people". When the countries was together, West Pakistan pretty much treated East Pakistan as a colony, a source of wealth from its jute exports and tried to suppress the Bengali language. The Punjabis/Sindhis didn't show any feeling of kinship with the Bengalis.

50 years from now, I don't see any reason why Bangladesh will feel differently about Pakistan than it feels, for example about Afghanistan.

 

[sweep_shot]

It is not as if Pakistanis and Bangladeshis feel any ethnic or cultural (other than Sunni Islam) kinship. Amir Niazi, who served as head of the Pakistani Forces in East Pakistan in 1971, referred to the region as a "low-lying land of low-lying people". When the countries was together, West Pakistan pretty much treated East Pakistan as a colony, a source of wealth from its jute exports and tried to suppress the Bengali language. The Punjabis/Sindhis didn't show any feeling of kinship with the Bengalis.

50 years from now, I don't see any reason why Bangladesh will feel differently about Pakistan than it feels, for example about Afghanistan.

Present Bangladeshi generation doesn't have hatred for Pakistan. Young generation wants to get along; they want to move on and they have moved on.

There is no logical reason why Bangladesh and Pakistan should have a beef in 21st century.

 

[Napa]

Present Bangladeshi generation doesn't have hatred for Pakistan. Young generation wants to get along; they want to move on and they have moved on.

There is no logical reason why Bangladesh and Pakistan should have a beef in 21st century.

I don't disagree with you. My point is that there is no reason for Bangladesh and Pakistan to have any special love, even if they have got over the hatred. Ethnically they are different. They are a thousand miles apart. The languages are different. No reason for a Bangladeshi to view a Pakistani differently than an Afghan if they have moved on from 1947-71.

 

[sweep_shot]

I don't disagree with you. My point is that there is no reason for Bangladesh and Pakistan to have any special love, even if they have got over the hatred. Ethnically they are different. They are a thousand miles apart. The languages are different. No reason for a Bangladeshi to view a Pakistani differently than an Afghan if they have moved on from 1947-71.

To be fair, I can understand Urdu about 60%. I can also speak it a little bit. Many Bangladeshis can speak fluent Hindi/Urdu. Languages aren't that different.

Culturally, you may argue there are some differences. But, we are all brown people at the end of the day. Not much difference.

 

[Pakpak]

If I was PM I would add that BD also killed a lot of Urdu speakers but I would apologize for the unacceptable level of atrocities we committed. No doubt about it. We have to apologize and move on.

I have personally no bad feelings towards Bangladeshis, in real life they have always been nice and compared to the namak haram Afghanis the love our team gets in Bangladesh is heart warming.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

To be fair, I can understand Urdu about 60%. I can also speak it a little bit. Many Bangladeshis can speak fluent Hindi/Urdu. Languages aren't that different.

Culturally, you may argue there are some differences. But, we are all brown people at the end of the day. Not much difference.

Culturally we're miles apart. We have nothing in common from language to life styles to cuisine. We(Bangladeshi Bengalis)due to shared borders & Bollywood have more in common with India. Pakistan dosent even acknowledge their own culture & history and many of its citizens still claim to be arabs/turks/parsians.

No many bangladeshis cant speak fluent urdu. They don't even understand the language. I bet even Many Pakistanis cant speak fluent urdu. Urdu is also difficult because of its high usage of arabic & parsian words. It also uses arabic alphabets whereas most subcontinental languages have their own alphabets that have common features(Languages that derived from Sanskrit)

 

[Pakpak]

Culturally we're miles apart. We have nothing in common from language to life styles to cuisine. We(Bangladeshi Bengalis)due to shared borders & Bollywood have more in common with India. Pakistan dosent even acknowledge their own culture & history and many of its citizens still claim to be arabs/turks/parsians.

No many bangladeshis cant speak fluent urdu. They don't even understand the language. I bet even Many Pakistanis cant speak fluent urdu. Urdu is also difficult because of its high usage of arabic & parsian words. It also uses arabic alphabets whereas most subcontinental languages have their own alphabets that have common features(Languages that derived from Sanskrit)

Most Pakistanis speak fluent Urdu. In many
parts Urdu is being spoken a lot more now Punjabi. I can give my generation within my family as example.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

If I was PM I would add that BD also killed a lot of Urdu speakers but I would apologize for the unacceptable level of atrocities we committed. No doubt about it. We have to apologize and move on.

I have personally no bad feelings towards Bangladeshis, in real life they have always been nice and compared to the namak haram Afghanis the love our team gets in Bangladesh is heart warming.

Pakistan massacred our country. Killed millions, raped thousands, systematically murdered our intellectuals, attacked our language & literature and what not. It isn't easy to forget all this in the space of 50 years. I don't blame the citizens of Pakistan and have no bad feelings about them but it is the state Pakistan & its army i can never forgive & forget. Pakistan with its hands full of blood, will always face God's wreath till they repent & change their ways.

 

[sweep_shot]

Culturally we're miles apart. We have nothing in common from language to life styles to cuisine. We(Bangladeshi Bengalis)due to shared borders & Bollywood have more in common with India. Pakistan dosent even acknowledge their own culture & history and many of its citizens still claim to be arabs/turks/parsians.

No many bangladeshis cant speak fluent urdu. They don't even understand the language. I bet even Many Pakistanis cant speak fluent urdu. Urdu is also difficult because of its high usage of arabic & parsian words. It also uses arabic alphabets whereas most subcontinental languages have their own alphabets that have common features(Languages that derived from Sanskrit)

Urdu and Hindi are almost same. I have played a lot of cricket with Pakistanis and I have gone to school with them also. I almost always understood what they were saying.

It seems like you are confusing Urdu with Pashtun or something.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Most Pakistanis speak fluent Urdu. In many
parts Urdu is being spoken a lot more now Punjabi. I can give my generation within my family as example.

What's the percentage? I watched Hamza Ali Abbasi in a show in Ghamidi center and he didn't had a clue about most of the words
the host used. He asked about many words & their meanings. He is a national star we're talking about. also the comment section in many Javed Ghamidi videos has many comments about how the form of urdu language used in the videos cant be fully understood by the common folks.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan massacred our country. Killed millions, raped thousands, systematically murdered our intellectuals, attacked our language & literature and what not. It isn't easy to forget all this in the space of 50 years. I don't blame the citizens of Pakistan and have no bad feelings about them but it is the state Pakistan & its army i can never forgive & forget. Pakistan with its hands full of blood, will always face God's wreath till they repent & change their ways.

I am sorry but most people have moved on. You need to move on also.

I think we should focus on far more important issues.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Urdu and Hindi are almost same. I have played a lot of cricket with Pakistanis and I have gone to school with them also. I almost always understood what they were saying.

It seems like you are confusing Urdu with Pashtun or something.

I myself can speak & write in urdu. Urdu is not very well understood by majority of Bangladeshis because of its heavy use of Arabic & parsian words. for example parents are called mata pita in both hindi & bangla but in urdu it takes the arabic walidein

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan with its hands full of blood, will always face God's wreath till they repent & change their ways.

Pakistan have already apologized. What more do you want them to do?

USA literally nuked two cities of Japan during World War 2. Is Japan still complaining? Answer is no! Japan and USA are now great allies.

As Muslim states, we should be cooperative.

 

[sweep_shot]

What's the percentage? I watched Hamza Ali Abbasi in a show in Ghamidi center and he didn't had a clue about most of the words
the host used. He asked about many words & their meanings. He is a national star we're talking about. also the comment section in many Javed Ghamidi videos has many comments about how the form of urdu language used in the videos cant be fully understood by the common folks.

So, you are saying you are a bigger expert in Urdu than all these Pakistanis here. LOL. I bet you barely know any Urdu.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

I am sorry but most people have moved on. You need to move on also.

I think we should focus on far more important issues.

No one should forget the roots & move on from its own history. Most guys who say move on from 71 are the same guys who then cry how Indians are killing kashmiris. Can you say to a kashmiri to move on from the atrocities they're suffering at the hands of Indian govt. & army?. Or is it that our blood dosent have any value because it is 50 years older?

 

[sweep_shot]

No one should forget the roots & move on from its own history. Most guys who say move on from 71 are the same guys who then cry how Indians are killing kashmiris. Can you say to a kashmiri to move on from the atrocities they're suffering at the hands of Indian govt. & army?. Or is it that our blood dosent have any value because it is 50 years older?

So, what do you want Pakistan to do? Did they not apologize? They apologized and they want to have a friendly relation. What's the issue here?

If you want to be stuck in 1971, that's your matter. But, don't expect everyone to play along.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Pakistan have already apologized. What more do you want them to do?

USA literally nuked two cities of Japan during World War 2. Is Japan still complaining? Answer is no! Japan and USA are now great allies.

As Muslim states, we should be cooperative.

Japan/USA relation has no relevance to Bangla/Pak relation & history. Pakistan isn't anywhere important enough to have any such relations anyway

 

[sweep_shot]

Japan/USA relation has no relevance to Bangla/Pak relation & history. Pakistan isn't anywhere important enough to have any such relations anyway

Maybe not to you. There are many in Bangladesh who don't have a problem with Pakistan.

I personally want great relation among all Muslim states.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

So, you are saying you are a bigger expert in Urdu than all these Pakistanis here. LOL. I bet you barely know any Urdu.

I'm didn't claimed to be an expert of Urdu. I just said it's an alien language to most Bangladeshis. It is similar to hindi to an extent but isn't understood by most Bengalis.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No issues with Bangladeshis, I have many friends in the UK.

However on a political front, best for Pak to remain at a distance with a nation which has been India's B for decades with no sign of change.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

So, what do you want Pakistan to do? Did they not apologize? They apologized and they want to have a friendly relation. What's the issue here?

If you want to be stuck in 1971, that's your matter. But, don't expect everyone to play along.

I'm not stuck in 71 but I wont forget our history.

Pakistan is yet to officially issue an apology to Bangladesh for their actions in 71. where did you get this information that Pakistan apologized?

 

[sweep_shot]

No issues with Bangladeshis, I have many friends in the UK.

However on a political front, best for Pak to remain at a distance with a nation which has been India's B for decades with no sign of change.

It is only Awami League and its supporters. Not the whole country.

Unfortunately, we are probably stuck with Hasina and her party for a while.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It is only Awami League and its supporters. Not the whole country.

Unfortunately, we are probably stuck with Hasina and her party for a while.

Well unless this changes, it's not a good idea for Pakistan. We have the RSS who are the masters of Hasina, so why go there?

 

[sweep_shot]

Well unless this changes, it's not a good idea for Pakistan. We have the RSS who are the masters of Hasina, so why go there?

You are right. Till then, our people can just be friendly with each other. But, I hope things will get better politically as time progresses.

 

[ElRaja]

Pakistan dosent even acknowledge their own culture & history and many of its citizens still claim to be arabs/turks/parsians.

what does this have to do with anything, genetics can be difficult to pinpoint, but there is no ambiguity that Pakistan is split down the middle between native indian and iranian language speakers.

pakistanis ethno-linguistic diversity is something which should be celebrated, not ridiculed as some form of identity crisis.

I bet even Many Pakistanis cant speak fluent urdu.

id say more than at least a 100 million, which isn't bad considering its a second language for the vast majority.

im ethnic pothwari, but consider myself fluent in urdu.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Maybe not to you. There are many in Bangladesh who don't have a problem with Pakistan.

I personally want great relation among all Muslim states.

Pakistan hold little relevance to the new generation yet it is still taboo to praise pakistan in public. I'm not sure whether you've been to BD in recent years but Bangladesh certainly hasn't forgotten anything. War Crime Tribunal is a proove of that. Not sure which bangladeshis you're talking about. Probably Jamaet E Islami supporters who didint support the Liberation of our country. It's natural they would love pakistan.

I personally want great relations with all states. But Muslim states are mostly good for nothing states so not sure what will we gain from them.