Pakistan trying to improve diplomatic ties with Bangladesh?

[KingKhanWC]

You are right. Till then, our people can just be friendly with each other. But, I hope things will get better politically as time progresses.

Im sure they will, after all we are brothers and sisters, history will fade once people in Bangladesh realise the RSS are not their friends.

 

[Pakpak]

No one should forget the roots & move on from its own history. Most guys who say move on from 71 are the same guys who then cry how Indians are killing kashmiris. Can you say to a kashmiri to move on from the atrocities they're suffering at the hands of Indian govt. & army?. Or is it that our blood dosent have any value because it is 50 years older?

?

All the 71 guys who did it are either dead and long gone or do not have any power if they've even alive. I don't see any Bengali hating the British for killing millions. It was 50 years ago, move on.
Kashmiris are being raped and killed every year for 30 years. Unless Pakistanis are still Doing that to your countrymen like India is to Kashmir then you have a point.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

what does this have to do with anything, genetics can be difficult to pinpoint, but there is no ambiguity that Pakistan is split down the middle between native indian and iranian language speakers.

pakistanis ethno-linguistic diversity is something which should be celebrated, not ridiculed as some form of identity crisis.



id say more than at least a 100 million, which isn't bad considering its a second language for the vast majority.

im ethnic pothwari, but consider myself fluent in urdu.

Problem is Pakistan dosent celebrate its cultural & linguistic diversity. Rather it is on a path to become a subcontinental version of
a fake Arabia

 

[Pakpak]

Problem is Pakistan dosent celebrate its cultural & linguistic diversity. Rather it is on a path to become a subcontinental version of
a fake Arabia

I don't see how that's a factor in Pakistan Bangladesh relationships.

You're the only negative one in this thread

 

[sweep_shot]

?

All the 71 guys who did it are either dead and long gone or do not have any power if they've even alive. I don't see any Bengali hating the British for killing millions. It was 50 years ago, move on.
Kashmiris are being raped and killed every year for 30 years. Unless Pakistanis are still Doing that to your countrymen like India is to Kashmir then you have a point.

British Empire has done far worse things to Bengal. I don't see any outrage about British oppression. I guess there is an inferiority complex among some Bangladeshis when it comes to British Empire.

It is time to move on. It is time forgive. We are Muslim countries and we should work together. We have many common enemies.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

?

All the 71 guys who did it are either dead and long gone or do not have any power if they've even alive. I don't see any Bengali hating the British for killing millions. It was 50 years ago, move on.
Kashmiris are being raped and killed every year for 30 years. Unless Pakistanis are still Doing that to your countrymen like India is to Kashmir then you have a point.

So all histories should be whitewashed after a period of time? that's very odd of you to say because the book you guys hold as the most sacred(Me too) Al Quran, is in essence is a book of history through which it provides lessons and guidance to people.

Most Muslims to this day hold Yazeed as a culprit for the atrocities he committed 1400 years ago. Why don't you whitewash this part of the history as well. Why not forget about the crusades, why not forget about the occupation of palestine. I see posters urging us Bangladeshis to move on when these posters at the same time go on about things that happend hundreds of years ago. Interesting

 

[ElRaja]

Problem is Pakistan dosent celebrate its cultural & linguistic diversity. Rather it is on a path to become a subcontinental version of
a fake Arabia

Pakistan has learned its lessons from the past, while things are not perfect the younger generation have very little appetite to stifle anyone's cultural expression, however that is balanced with the organic uniformity of certain aspects of cultural expression as the country becomes more urbanised. however you clearly have your own preconceived ideas of what Pakistan is, so theres no real point in arguing.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

I don't see how that's a factor in Pakistan Bangladesh relationships.

You're the only negative one in this thread

It's in relation to Bangladesh & Pakistan being similar. We arent similar. If there was any similarities ever existed, it is non existent currently. Pakistan is moving closer to being more like an arab county so that's the reason I pointed out that trend.

 

[sweep_shot]

So all histories should be whitewashed after a period of time? that's very odd of you to say because the book you guys hold as the most sacred(Me too) Al Quran, is in essence is a book of history through which it provides lessons and guidance to people.

Most Muslims to this day hold Yazeed as a culprit for the atrocities he committed 1400 years ago. Why don't you whitewash this part of the history as well. Why not forget about the crusades, why not forget about the occupation of palestine. I see posters urging us Bangladeshis to move on when these posters at the same time go on about things that happend hundreds of years ago. Interesting

It is not about whitewashing. It is about forgiving and moving on.

Nobody is erasing any history.

Do you want Muslim states to be united or not? It is a simple question.

 

[Syed1]

Problem is Pakistan dosent celebrate its cultural & linguistic diversity. Rather it is on a path to become a subcontinental version of
a fake Arabia

Oh so now you are an expert on Pakistan?


We literally have an ethnic Pathan who grew up in Punjab as our PM and an Urdu speaker from Indian parents who was born in Sindh as our President.



We celebrate our diversity sufficiently don't need lectures from outsiders.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Pakistan has learned its lessons from the past, while things are not perfect the younger generation have very little appetite to stifle anyone's cultural expression, however that is balanced with the organic uniformity of certain aspects of cultural expression as the country becomes more urbanised. however you clearly have your own preconceived ideas of what Pakistan is, so theres no real point in arguing.

'Very little appetite to stifle anyone's cultural expression"

I would've been very happy if it was a true statement.

 

[sweep_shot]

It's in relation to Bangladesh & Pakistan being similar. We arent similar. If there was any similarities ever existed, it is non existent currently. Pakistan is moving closer to being more like an arab county so that's the reason I pointed out that trend.

Again, you are trying to speak for an entire country. Your view will probably be rejected by many Bangladeshis.

You ask a white man or a black man if he can tell any major difference between a Bengali and a Pakistani. They see us as brown people.

Judging from your posts, I don't think you have ever been to outside of Bangladesh. You probably got all your information from Google.

 

[miandadrules]

For those asking for people to move on, you might first want to ask for accountability before.

That is the very least we can do.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

It is not about whitewashing. It is about forgiving and moving on.

Nobody is erasing any history.

Do you want Muslim states to be united or not? It is a simple question.

Why should we unite with foreign states? I would rather unite with our lost brothers from west bengal and form a greater Bangladesh. I've no interest in the imaginary system of khilafah. That system died 1400 years ago. It's a thing of past. Move on

 

[sweep_shot]

Why should we unite with foreign states? I would rather unite with our lost brothers from west bengal and form a greater Bangladesh. I've no interest in the imaginary system of khilafah. That system died 1400 years ago. It's a thing of past. Move on

That's your opinion. Not everyone believes this crap.

I am sorry but I have to stop taking you seriously. You can hug your West Bengal brothers.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Again, you are trying to speak for an entire country. Your view will probably be rejected by many Bangladeshis.

You ask a white man or a black man if he can tell any major difference between a Bengali and a Pakistani. They see us as brown people.

Judging from your posts, I don't think you have ever been to outside of Bangladesh. You probably got all your information from Google.

Why are you so judgemental

To many of us, all eastern asians look alike. Dosent mean they're all same right?

 

[sweep_shot]

Why should we unite with foreign states? I would rather unite with our lost brothers from west bengal and form a greater Bangladesh. I've no interest in the imaginary system of khilafah. That system died 1400 years ago. It's a thing of past. Move on

While India is looking to kick out Bengali Muslims from West Bengal, you are dreaming about reuniting with them. LOL!

This is the prime example of inferiority complex.

 

[moghul]

Pakistan and BD are two different countries and nations, no similarity, but there is no reason they cannot be in good terms with each other.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

That's your opinion. Not everyone believes this crap.

I am sorry but I have to stop taking you seriously. You can hug your West Bengal brothers.

And Why Should you be taken seriously after wanting to unify sovereign states based just on religious beliefs? I mean that is just spooky

 

[miandadrules]

And Why Should you be taken seriously after wanting to unify sovereign states based just on religious beliefs? I mean that is just spooky

Because the wish is to replace one form of colonialism with another.

 

[sweep_shot]

Why should we unite with foreign states? I would rather unite with our lost brothers from west bengal and form a greater Bangladesh. I've no interest in the imaginary system of khilafah. That system died 1400 years ago. It's a thing of past. Move on

Bangladesh decided to join Pakistan in 1947 due to Islam. Nothing else.

If we loved West Bengal so much, we would've probably joined India. Think about it.

I didn't mention anything about khilafah (even though I would 100% support it). I simply want unity among Muslim states. I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

While India is looking to kick out Bengali Muslims from West Bengal, you are dreaming about reuniting with them. LOL!

This is the prime example of inferiority complex.

West Bengal is our ethinic brothers. It is natural to have a dream of an united Bangla like many have for an united Punjab for example. Why should it be deemed as an inferiority complex? Inferiority complex is to have a dream of shedding one's freedom, get annexed with an imaginary state and be led by Arabs/Turks.

 

[Bigboii]

Bangladesh decided to join Pakistan in 1947 due to Islam. Nothing else.

If we loved West Bengal so much, we would've probably joined India. Think about it.

I didn't mention anything about khilafah (even though I would 100% support it). I simply want unity among Muslim states. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Unity means friendly relationship between soviergn Muslim countries?

 

[sweep_shot]

West Bengal is our ethinic brothers. It is natural to have a dream of an united Bangla like many have for an united Punjab for example. Why should it be deemed as an inferiority complex? Inferiority complex is to have a dream of shedding one's freedom, get annexed with an imaginary state and be led by Arabs/Turks.

Do you honestly believe this is what majority of Bangladeshis believe? LOL. You are full of yourself.

Nobody I know wants to unite with India. Many actually hate India.

I have a feeling you are an Indian poster pretending to be a Bangladeshi.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Bangladesh decided to join Pakistan in 1947 due to Islam. Nothing else.

If we loved West Bengal so much, we would've probably joined India. Think about it.

I didn't mention anything about khilafah (even though I would 100% support it). I simply want unity among Muslim states. I don't see anything wrong with it.

There was nothing Islamic about creating Pakistan because there is no concept of nation state In Islam. Muslims threatened by the majority hindus, wanted their own land. British played both the sides and divided the subcontinent in two parts which should've been three parts(two muslim states like today) from the get go(as per the original plan)

 

[sweep_shot]

There was nothing Islamic about creating Pakistan because there is no concept of nation state In Islam. Muslims threatened by the majority hindus, wanted their own land. British played both the sides and divided the subcontinent in two parts which should've been three parts(two muslim states like today) from the get go(as per the original plan)

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound here? You are contradicting yourself.

If you hate Pakistan, why are you on this site?

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Do you honestly believe this is what majority of Bangladeshis believe? LOL. You are full of yourself.

Nobody I know wants to unite with India. Many actually hate India.

I have a feeling you are an Indian poster pretending to be a Bangladeshi.

I'm not talking about uniting with India. That's nonsense. I said I'd rather west bengal join us to form a Greater Bangladesh than to join an imaginary system

 

[CricketCartoons]

Do you honestly believe this is what majority of Bangladeshis believe? LOL. You are full of yourself.

Nobody I know wants to unite with India. Many actually hate India.

I have a feeling you are an Indian poster pretending to be a Bangladeshi.

Amar ek bondhu chilo, tar naam ishtiaq. shei india aar pakistan duita deshe ghrina korto.

 

[Thomaskutty]

Problem is Pakistan dosent celebrate its cultural & linguistic diversity. Rather it is on a path to become a subcontinental version of a fake Arabia

Careful now .. you'll be accused of being a fake bangla and an indian in disguise by the usual suspects in here.

But I agree with you. Pakistan shouldn't just apologise and casually move on, saying sorry is what you tell when you stamp on somebody's foot. Pak should get down on their knees and beg for forgiveness and then provide massive financial reparations to Bangladesh for inflicting one of the worst genocides of the 20th century. If it weren't for Indira Gandhi's intervention, East Pakistan would've been one giant concentration camp run by the Pak army for the ensuing decades.

 

[sweep_shot]

Unity means friendly relationship between soviergn Muslim countries?

Unity can mean a lot of things including friendly relationship.

 

[sweep_shot]

Amar ek bondhu chilo, tar naam ishtiaq. shei india aar pakistan duita deshe ghrina korto.

Hate kora valo na.

I don't hate India. I have Indian friends. But, I also want to see unity among Muslim states. For too long, we have been divided for many stupid reasons and it is time for us to come together. We have many common obstacles.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound here? You are contradicting yourself.

If you hate Pakistan, why are you on this site?

Islam is a religion. muslims are its followers. whatever God said through the Messenger is Islam. What muslims do generally cant become a part of Islam as it is a way completed By God at the time of Prophet.

If I want to live separately from my hindu neighbours and want to live with my muslim neighbours, how does my act becomes Islamic?

I don't hate nor blame pakistanis as I said in my earlier post. Not sure what you're on about

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Amar ek bondhu chilo, tar naam ishtiaq. shei india aar pakistan duita deshe ghrina korto.

what a coincidence

Ami kintu kawke ghrina korina brother. But Cant whitewash the history

 

[sweep_shot]

Islam is a religion. muslims are its followers. whatever God said through the Messenger is Islam. What muslims do generally cant become a part of Islam as it is a way completed By God at the time of Prophet.

If I want to live separately from my hindu neighbours and want to live with my muslim neighbours, how does my act becomes Islamic?

I don't hate nor blame pakistanis as I said in my earlier post. Not sure what you're on about

You are muddying the water now. Rather than answering my questions and addressing my points, you are deflecting.

I am asking you one more time. Do you support worldwide Muslim unity? Do you believe in the concept of ummah? Simple yes or no question.

 

[sweep_shot]

Careful now .. you'll be accused of being a fake bangla and an indian in disguise by the usual suspects in here.

But I agree with you. Pakistan shouldn't just apologise and casually move on, saying sorry is what you tell when you stamp on somebody's foot. Pak should get down on their knees and beg for forgiveness and then provide massive financial reparations to Bangladesh for inflicting one of the worst genocides of the 20th century. If it weren't for Indira Gandhi's intervention, East Pakistan would've been one giant concentration camp run by the Pak army for the ensuing decades.

I disagree.

My father was in southern part of Bangladesh when liberation war happened. He was actually detained by Pakistani army. But, they let him go. No harm was done. I doubt it would've been a concentration camp.

Nobody mentions about British Empire. They have done far worse crimes.

 

[Napa]

Do you support worldwide Muslim unity? Do you believe in the concept of ummah?

Isn't that a pipe dream? The first 5 Caliphs of your religion were people who personally knew your Prophet, so they received the your religion first hand. 4 of these Caliphs were murdered by other Muslims. What hope do you have of unity?

 

[Pakpak]

So all histories should be whitewashed after a period of time? that's very odd of you to say because the book you guys hold as the most sacred(Me too) Al Quran, is in essence is a book of history through which it provides lessons and guidance to people.

Most Muslims to this day hold Yazeed as a culprit for the atrocities he committed 1400 years ago. Why don't you whitewash this part of the history as well. Why not forget about the crusades, why not forget about the occupation of palestine. I see posters urging us Bangladeshis to move on when these posters at the same time go on about things that happend hundreds of years ago. Interesting

What on earth are you blabbering on about?

I said we should apologise and then everyone should move on. How is saying sorry whitewashing history?

Noone is stopping you from teaching history in BD schools about 71, but there is little else we can do besides saying sorry. Otherwise you should make the same demands from the UK who killed ten times more Bengalis and even beyond an apology I am not sure what even they can do.

 

[Pakpak]

I disagree.

My father was in southern part of Bangladesh when liberation war happened. He was actually detained by Pakistani army. But, they let him go. No harm was done. I doubt it would've been a concentration camp.

Nobody mentions about British Empire. They have done far worse crimes.

Sadly the poster is an example why some of your countrymen will never move on. Though I am pleased to say he's in the minority.

 

[sweep_shot]

Isn't that a pipe dream? The first 5 Caliphs of your religion were people who personally knew your Prophet, so they received the your religion first hand. 4 of these Caliphs were murdered by other Muslims. What hope do you have of unity?

I think you don't understand the definition of ummah. It means "the whole community of Muslims bound together by ties of religion".

That means, even if Muslims are from different countries, they are considered as one body.

I don't see a Muslim from North Africa any differently than a Muslim from Bangladesh or Canada.

 

[sweep_shot]

Sadly the poster is an example why some of your countrymen will never move on. Though I am pleased to say he's in the minority.

Yup. Majority of the Bangladeshis I know love Pakistanis. No ill feeling at all.

This Ishtiaq guy is an anomaly. His views are very toxic and these views are no longer norms.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

You either give power to the military or you give power to the entrepreneurs. You can't have both. China has tried to keep power in the Communist Party which has shared it with the capitalists. Long-term whether the Chinese model will work is unknown. The Southeast Asian countries have been marked by increasing power given to the capitalists. The Mideast countries other than Egypt may not explicitly have military dictatorships, but effectively are military dictatorships with the military the instrument of keeping power for the ruling family/dictator. Iran is an exception, with power being shared by the unelected religious establishment and the elected President.

The thing which makes Pakistan more like the Mideast than Southeast Asia is that power has not been given to the capitalists. This means they are targets of shakedowns unless they have political/military protection, like Malik Riaz of Bahria Town who had to pay a $3 billion "fine". Capitalists cannot be successful if they don't have the capital for further expansion.

Bangladesh is currently behaving like other Southeast Asian countries. Let's see if that persists after Hasina is gone.

All dictatorships use the military to keep them in power. Even democracies are dependent on the military to ensure there is no power vacuum, but in democracies the army respects the democratic mandate.

Malik Riaz had to pay like 190 million pound fine to the UK as well. Was that a shakedown?

Cricket is rather irrelevant when it comes to the important decisions. It certainly isn't enough to get Bangladesh to form an anti-India military alliance with Pakistan like some posters here (@SensiblePakFan, [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION], [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] etc) dream of.

Thats true. But does not mean good relations cant be created.

It is not as if Pakistanis and Bangladeshis feel any ethnic or cultural (other than Sunni Islam) kinship. Amir Niazi, who served as head of the Pakistani Forces in East Pakistan in 1971, referred to the region as a "low-lying land of low-lying people". When the countries was together, West Pakistan pretty much treated East Pakistan as a colony, a source of wealth from its jute exports and tried to suppress the Bengali language. The Punjabis/Sindhis didn't show any feeling of kinship with the Bengalis.

50 years from now, I don't see any reason why Bangladesh will feel differently about Pakistan than it feels, for example about Afghanistan.

Pakistan was under a dictatorship, that too with a Pashtun dictator, when problems arose. So its not like Punjabis Sindhis are responsible for any discrimination that Bengali's faced at that time. When there was dictatorship again in the 80's Sindhi's felt discriminated because the PM was Sindhi. It was not until Musharraf took over from a Punjabi PM, that the country realized the ethnicity of the PM has nothing to do with it.

Beofre the dictatorship there were Bengali PM's as well. And Bengali was an official language of Pakistan, starting in 1956 when Pakistan still had a democratic government.

50 years from now, I don't see any reason why Bangladesh will feel differently about Pakistan than it feels, for example about Afghanistan.

Both Pakistanis and Bengali's are subcontinent Muslims so that's something in common right there. Bangladesh has more in common with Pakistan than they do with the South East Asian countries. And Pakistan has more in common than they do with the Middle Eastern countries.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Culturally we're miles apart. We have nothing in common from language to life styles to cuisine. We(Bangladeshi Bengalis)due to shared borders & Bollywood have more in common with India. Pakistan dosent even acknowledge their own culture & history and many of its citizens still claim to be arabs/turks/parsians.

No many bangladeshis cant speak fluent urdu. They don't even understand the language. I bet even Many Pakistanis cant speak fluent urdu. Urdu is also difficult because of its high usage of arabic & parsian words. It also uses arabic alphabets whereas most subcontinental languages have their own alphabets that have common features(Languages that derived from Sanskrit)

No one in Pakistan claims to be an Arab Persian Turk. What people say is that those people who came to subcontinent have assimilated with the local population. They did not disappear. However only a small percentage of the population have those surnames anyway.

So the first Bengal Sultan, might have been a foreigner, but subsequent generations became local through intermarriage.

No many bangladeshis cant speak fluent urdu. They don't even understand the language. I bet even Many Pakistanis cant speak fluent urdu. Urdu is also difficult because of its high usage of arabic & parsian words. It also uses arabic alphabets whereas most subcontinental languages have their own alphabets that have common features(Languages that derived from Sanskrit)

Urdu uses the Nastaliq script, which is from Persian. Its been used in the subcontinent from the last 500 years. Should we disown that script?

Urdu has alot of Persian words, so does Punjabi, Hindi, Bengali, Gujarati. Persian was the official language for like 600 years.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Pakistan massacred our country. Killed millions, raped thousands, systematically murdered our intellectuals, attacked our language & literature and what not. It isn't easy to forget all this in the space of 50 years. I don't blame the citizens of Pakistan and have no bad feelings about them but it is the state Pakistan & its army i can never forgive & forget. Pakistan with its hands full of blood, will always face God's wreath till they repent & change their ways.

Can you forgive the Bengali Army for what they did to the Urdu Speaking Muslims? What about Buddhist of Chittagong Hill Tracts?

Second millions were not killed. Thats pure propaganda. Most of the victims were Hindus, who were predominantly expelled. While wrong, and Pakistan should apologize again for there role to improve relations, exaggeration and lies is not right either.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Careful now .. you'll be accused of being a fake bangla and an indian in disguise by the usual suspects in here.

But I agree with you. Pakistan shouldn't just apologise and casually move on, saying sorry is what you tell when you stamp on somebody's foot. Pak should get down on their knees and beg for forgiveness and then provide massive financial reparations to Bangladesh for inflicting one of the worst genocides of the 20th century. If it weren't for Indira Gandhi's intervention, East Pakistan would've been one giant concentration camp run by the Pak army for the ensuing decades.

The Killings were two ways. Urdu Speaking Muslims were also killed. And the biggest victims of the Pakistan Army by far were Bengali Hindus not Bengali Muslims. The plan of Pakistan was to mass expel, not kill, Hindus, and give there land to Bengali Muslims so they would be loyal to the state. This was wrong and Pakistan has apologized and should do so again.

However what Pakistan is really guilty of is denying the right of the majority to take power. Pakistan was under a dictatorship but still the government should have an annual apology. To improve relations with Bangladesh.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

Sadly the poster is an example why some of your countrymen will never move on. Though I am pleased to say he's in the minority.

If most Bangladeshis were like him, then the people of Bangladesh would never cheer for Pakistan against India. I have a bunch of Bengali friends. None of them are like that.

 

[sweep_shot]

If most Bangladeshis were like him, then the people of Bangladesh would never cheer for Pakistan against India. I have a bunch of Bengali friends. None of them are like that.

That's right!

When I started watching cricket back in 1996, Bangladesh didn't have ODI status. I was supporting Pakistan by default.

My dad also used to be a hardcore Pakistan cricket team supporter.

 

[Gharib Aadmi]

That's right!

When I started watching cricket back in 1996, Bangladesh didn't have ODI status. I was supporting Pakistan by default.

My dad also used to be a hardcore Pakistan cricket team supporter.

Alot of Pakistanis, like me, have Bangladesh as their second team as well.

 

[Syed1]

Careful now .. you'll be accused of being a fake bangla and an indian in disguise by the usual suspects in here.

But I agree with you. Pakistan shouldn't just apologise and casually move on, saying sorry is what you tell when you stamp on somebody's foot. Pak should get down on their knees and beg for forgiveness and then provide massive financial reparations to Bangladesh for inflicting one of the worst genocides of the 20th century. If it weren't for Indira Gandhi's intervention, East Pakistan would've been one giant concentration camp run by the Pak army for the ensuing decades.

So East Pakistan would have been like present day Occupied Kashmir?



Hindutva filth like you should be the last people to bark about genocide. Your lot butchered 50 Muslims on the streets of your capital just a couple months ago.

 

[Mesozoic]

If most Bangladeshis were like him, then the people of Bangladesh would never cheer for Pakistan against India. I have a bunch of Bengali friends. None of them are like that.

People have a natural tendency to support underdogs in sporting duels.

You shouldn't really read too much into that.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

You are muddying the water now. Rather than answering my questions and addressing my points, you are deflecting.

I am asking you one more time. Do you support worldwide Muslim unity? Do you believe in the concept of ummah? Simple yes or no question.

I do support worldwide muslim unity. I also support worldwide human unity. That's how world will be at peace. But I'm not sure what are you insinuating by saying muslims should be united, muslims have common enemies. Who are these common enemies? Who decides for muslims that we have common enemies? I would like to see your reasoning.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

I disagree.

My father was in southern part of Bangladesh when liberation war happened. He was actually detained by Pakistani army. But, they let him go. No harm was done. I doubt it would've been a concentration camp.

Nobody mentions about British Empire. They have done far worse crimes.

You can mention about british's atrocities. No one's stoping you. Sashi Tharoor of India did that sitting on british mainstream media.

Your POV is so much influenced by religious identity that you're borderline denying Pakistan's action in 71. I'm sure if it was India instead of Pakistan who did all this in 71, you would've had different views.

And I'm telling you this for the last time. Pakistan are yet to issue an apology to Bangladesh. Pakistan are yet to come clean to their own citizens about 71. Pakistan dosent even recognise the genocide they committed & yet You heard in your dreamland that Pakistan apologized.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

What on earth are you blabbering on about?

I said we should apologise and then everyone should move on. How is saying sorry whitewashing history?

Noone is stopping you from teaching history in BD schools about 71, but there is little else we can do besides saying sorry. Otherwise you should make the same demands from the UK who killed ten times more Bengalis and even beyond an apology I am not sure what even they can do.

Yeah show the courtesy of atleast issuing an apology and admit that Pakistani army committed genocide. Pakistan hasn't done that. You cant expect us to forget everything when Pakistan are yet to even issue an apology and acknowledge the atrocities they committed. You cant expect a normal relation before Pakistan come clean about this issue.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Yup. Majority of the Bangladeshis I know love Pakistanis. No ill feeling at all.

This Ishtiaq guy is an anomaly. His views are very toxic and these views are no longer norms.

So mentioning the genocide of our ancestors makes me toxic? I wonder whether you feel sad about Bangladesh breaking away from Pakistan.

Your stance is like oh yeah Pakistan killed millions of our ancestors but no big deal. We should move on. We're an Ummah. We have bigger things to worry about. We should conquer the world, we should have a Khilafah. Oh it sounds so cute my akhi.
Merecho kolsir kana, tai bole ki prem dibona

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

No one in Pakistan claims to be an Arab Persian Turk. What people say is that those people who came to subcontinent have assimilated with the local population. They did not disappear. However only a small percentage of the population have those surnames anyway.

So the first Bengal Sultan, might have been a foreigner, but subsequent generations became local through intermarriage.



Urdu uses the Nastaliq script, which is from Persian. Its been used in the subcontinent from the last 500 years. Should we disown that script?

Urdu has alot of Persian words, so does Punjabi, Hindi, Bengali, Gujarati. Persian was the official language for like 600 years.

Was pointing out how different urdu is from Bangla. I have no issues with urdu or any other languages. I just said its different & majority of Bangladesh dosent understand it.

 

[sweep_shot]

So mentioning the genocide of our ancestors makes me toxic? I wonder whether you feel sad about Bangladesh breaking away from Pakistan.

Your stance is like oh yeah Pakistan killed millions of our ancestors but no big deal. We should move on. We're an Ummah. We have bigger things to worry about.

All I am saying is, we need to move past whatever has happened. What can you achieve by crying over spilled milk? Nothing.

I wouldn't have an opinion on Bangladesh breaking away from Pakistan. It is because I am not too into nationalism. National identity is temporary while religious/individual identity is permanent (generally).

National boundaries keep on changing. My grandfather was born in British India; he survived through Pakistan era and then died as a Bangladeshi. He has had three different nationalities in one lifetime. Nationalism is a bit like T20 cricket.

 

[sweep_shot]

You can mention about british's atrocities. No one's stoping you. Sashi Tharoor of India did that sitting on british mainstream media.

Your POV is so much influenced by religious identity that you're borderline denying Pakistan's action in 71. I'm sure if it was India instead of Pakistan who did all this in 71, you would've had different views.

And I'm telling you this for the last time. Pakistan are yet to issue an apology to Bangladesh. Pakistan are yet to come clean to their own citizens about 71. Pakistan dosent even recognise the genocide they committed & yet You heard in your dreamland that Pakistan apologized.

It took someone from India to raise the issue of British atrocities. How come no Bangladeshi ever raises the issue? Whatever Pakistan has done, British Empire has done many times wrong. We were with Pakistan for only 24 years. British Empire oppressed us for almost 200 years!

You are right that I got it wrong about the official apology. I probably got it mixed up with something else. But, it still doesn't change the fact we need to move on. We need to stop being too emotional and focus on rationality.

Has USA apologized to Japan for nuking two cities? I am yet to see any apology from USA. Japan and USA are great allies now.

 

[Greenstorm]

All this nonsense of genocide and millions of atrocities are Indian lies and propaganda. This lie has been repeated so many times that even some Pakistanis have started believing it. Initiation of operation searchlight was a wrong move by West Pakistan but war crimes were committed by both sides in 1971. Pakistan have apologized for theirs and moved on while Bangladesh is yet to issue any. Sheikh Mujib himself was ready to 'forgive and forget' after 71 but some Bangladeshis have not.

There is no need for Pakistan to be overly apologetic. We must try to forge friendly relations with our brothers in Bangladesh but it is upto them if they want to look objectively into the past or ride on lies and emotions. From my observation, majority of Bangladeshi populace want healthy relations with Pakistan (as evidenced in Pak vs Ind matches) but the ruling elite is more inclined towards India.

 

[sweep_shot]

All this nonsense of genocide and millions of atrocities are Indian lies and propaganda. This lie has been repeated so many times that even some Pakistanis have started believing it. Initiation of operation searchlight was a wrong move by West Pakistan but war crimes were committed by both sides in 1971. Pakistan have apologized for theirs and moved on while Bangladesh is yet to issue any. Sheikh Mujib himself was ready to 'forgive and forget' after 71 but some Bangladeshis have not.

There is no need for Pakistan to be overly apologetic. We must try to forge friendly relations with our brothers in Bangladesh but it is upto them if they want to look objectively into the past or ride on lies and emotions. From my observation, majority of Bangladeshi populace want healthy relations with Pakistan (as evidenced in Pak vs Ind matches) but the ruling elite is more inclined towards India.

Exactly!

Bangladeshi textbooks teach 3-million Bengali people died during 1971 war. I absolutely don't believe that figure. I only believe neutral source and it says 200,000 to 300,000 died. Whatever the figure is, it is now a sunk cost and no point in crying over it.

I am not too fussy about this girly apology business. Forgive each other and move on.

 

[Pakpak]

Yeah show the courtesy of atleast issuing an apology and admit that Pakistani army committed genocide. Pakistan hasn't done that. You cant expect us to forget everything when Pakistan are yet to even issue an apology and acknowledge the atrocities they committed. You cant expect a normal relation before Pakistan come clean about this issue.

Pakistan under Musharraf has already apologized as far as I know.

Secondly, stop talking nonsense about millions dead which has been proven a lie countless times. We had 90,000 men out of which only 44,000 were actually combat troops. To kill millions and fight the Indians
and the rebels at the same time would have meant every man had to kill a 1000 a day.

Like I said, peopl like you are rare and the rest of your nation knows the wrongs we did them and have mostly moved on hence the fantastic support we get in Dhaka everytime. Id suggest you move on too but I suspect even if we apologize again people like would be stuck in the past.

Speaking off apologies when is Bangladesh demanding an apology from the UK?

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

All this nonsense of genocide and millions of atrocities are Indian lies and propaganda. This lie has been repeated so many times that even some Pakistanis have started believing it. Initiation of operation searchlight was a wrong move by West Pakistan but war crimes were committed by both sides in 1971. Pakistan have apologized for theirs and moved on while Bangladesh is yet to issue any. Sheikh Mujib himself was ready to 'forgive and forget' after 71 but some Bangladeshis have not.

There is no need for Pakistan to be overly apologetic. We must try to forge friendly relations with our brothers in Bangladesh but it is upto them if they want to look objectively into the past or ride on lies and emotions. From my observation, majority of Bangladeshi populace want healthy relations with Pakistan (as evidenced in Pak vs Ind matches) but the ruling elite is more inclined towards India.

Pakistan neither apologized nor moved on from their actions in 71. Pakistan still to this day deny the genocide it committed. You cant expect healthy relations with a country that dosent even admit to the wrongdoings it committed in your motherland.

Bangladesh as recently as in 2018 demanded Pakistan to issue an apology for their war crimes in 71. Bangladesh didn't demand reparations rather demanded just to issue an apology to move forward. Pakistan's response was to leave behind all this & move forward.
Pakistan owes us wealth & money. We don't want it. Just issue an apology and accept your wrongdoings & we will be good to move forward.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

Pakistan under Musharraf has already apologized as far as I know.

Secondly, stop talking nonsense about millions dead which has been proven a lie countless times. We had 90,000 men out of which only 44,000 were actually combat troops. To kill millions and fight the Indians
and the rebels at the same time would have meant every man had to kill a 1000 a day.

Like I said, people like you are rare and the rest of your nation knows the wrongs we did them and have mostly moved on hence the fantastic support we get in Dhaka everytime. Id suggest you move on too but I suspect even if we apologize again people like would be stuck in the past.

Speaking off apologies when is Bangladesh demanding an apology from the UK?

First Pakistan hasn't issued an official apology
Second what does cricket have to do with all this? Most Pakistanis hate India but love bollywood. That's not a way you measure diplomatic relations.

 

[Pakpak]

First Pakistan hasn't issued an official apology
Second what does cricket have to do with all this? Most Pakistanis hate India but love bollywood. That's not a way you measure diplomatic relations.

Pakistan apology in 1974

https://www.nytimes.com/1974/04/11/...o-bangladesh-accord-of-foreign-ministers.html

Pakistan apology under Musharraf

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo.../1403185/Musharraf-apology-to-Bangladesh.html

Maybe we should do yearly apologies?


And what do you mean facing the ugly truth? I already admitted our wrongs. Or are you unable to read?

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

All I am saying is, we need to move past whatever has happened. What can you achieve by crying over spilled milk? Nothing.

I wouldn't have an opinion on Bangladesh breaking away from Pakistan. It is because I am not too into nationalism. National identity is temporary while religious/individual identity is permanent (generally).

National boundaries keep on changing. My grandfather was born in British India; he survived through Pakistan era and then died as a Bangladeshi. He has had three different nationalities in one lifetime. Nationalism is a bit like T20 cricket.

Your ethinic identity is the permanent one. One can change his/her nationality, religion but you cant shed away your ethinic identity. A Bangali, Punjabi, marathi etc. will remain so even if he/she tries/pretends to be something else.

 

[Pakpak]

Again, when is Bangladesh demanding an apology from the UK?

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan neither apologized nor moved on from their actions in 71. Pakistan still to this day deny the genocide it committed. You cant expect healthy relations with a country that dosent even admit to the wrongdoings it committed in your motherland.

Bangladesh as recently as in 2018 demanded Pakistan to issue an apology for their war crimes in 71. Bangladesh didn't demand reparations rather demanded just to issue an apology to move forward. Pakistan's response was to leave behind all this & move forward.
Pakistan owes us wealth & money. We don't want it. Just issue an apology and accept your wrongdoings & we will be good to move forward.

You are a lost cause. You make us Bangladeshis look bad. Stop whining like a little girl and focus on future.

For your information, Pakistan and rest of the world have moved on. Most Bangladeshis have moved on also.

 

[Pakpak]

An army dictator has already apologized. Ill leave this thread before I get a warning for debating with such low quality posters.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

https://thediplomat.com/2017/12/time-for-pakistan-to-apologize-to-bangladesh/

https://tbsnews.net/opinion/we-mist...sacred-bangladeshis-pakistani-scientist-45127

I'm not alone in this.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

An army dictator has already apologized. Ill leave this thread before I get a warning for debating with such low quality posters.

State Apology brother. expressing Regret dosent do anything

 

[the Great Khan]

Culturally we're miles apart. We have nothing in common from language to life styles to cuisine. We(Bangladeshi Bengalis)due to shared borders & Bollywood have more in common with India. Pakistan dosent even acknowledge their own culture & history and many of its citizens still claim to be arabs/turks/parsians.

No many bangladeshis cant speak fluent urdu. They don't even understand the language. I bet even Many Pakistanis cant speak fluent urdu. Urdu is also difficult because of its high usage of arabic & parsian words. It also uses arabic alphabets whereas most subcontinental languages have their own alphabets that have common features(Languages that derived from Sanskrit)

i would disagree with that to an extent. pakistan has much in common with bangladesh. One of my closest friends is bangladeshi. His wife makes some great curry that is similar to ours. Yes the ingredients are sometimes different but I see similarities. The majority of asian restaurants in the uk were started by bangladeshis serving karahi lamb curry etc.

There is also a bond from partition in 1947 and due to Islam. Our culture is close.

Finally we fought together and shed blood together then fought each other. That's what families do. Our bonds are sealed by blood in many cases. Many west pakistanis married into families in bangladesh. Dhaka was seen as a very cosmopolitan city for many pakistanis and many moved there.

as for the charge we want military ties or that i wish to see this. yes I do. All Muslim countries should have military ties. Thats irrelevant. Whats relevant is how do we go to our Bangladeshi brothers and once again embrace them so we can move forward.

 

[the Great Khan]

Pakistan neither apologized nor moved on from their actions in 71. Pakistan still to this day deny the genocide it committed. You cant expect healthy relations with a country that dosent even admit to the wrongdoings it committed in your motherland.

Bangladesh as recently as in 2018 demanded Pakistan to issue an apology for their war crimes in 71. Bangladesh didn't demand reparations rather demanded just to issue an apology to move forward. Pakistan's response was to leave behind all this & move forward.
Pakistan owes us wealth & money. We don't want it. Just issue an apology and accept your wrongdoings & we will be good to move forward.

there is a reason Pakistan hasnt made a state level apology because it is akin to take all the blame for 71 which is not fair and is also not historically accurate.

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

You are a lost cause. You make us Bangladeshis look bad. Stop whining like a little girl and focus on future.

For your information, Pakistan and rest of the world have moved on. Most Bangladeshis have moved on also.

I'm not whining. It is you who is denying the history. You also talk as if you represent Bangladesh officially in this forum. Like most bangladeshis do this, think this, love this, hate this
you're really entertaining

 

[SpiritOf1903]

If it's true Pakistani soldiers were stripped 9f uniform, who did the raping ?

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

i would disagree with that to an extent. pakistan has much in common with bangladesh. One of my closest friends is bangladeshi. His wife makes some great curry that is similar to ours. Yes the ingredients are sometimes different but I see similarities. The majority of asian restaurants in the uk were started by bangladeshis serving karahi lamb curry etc.

There is also a bond from partition in 1947 and due to Islam. Our culture is close.

Finally we fought together and shed blood together then fought each other. That's what families do. Our bonds are sealed by blood in many cases. Many west pakistanis married into families in bangladesh. Dhaka was seen as a very cosmopolitan city for many pakistanis and many moved there.

as for the charge we want military ties or that i wish to see this. yes I do. All Muslim countries should have military ties. Thats irrelevant. Whats relevant is how do we go to our Bangladeshi brothers and once again embrace them so we can move forward.

No issue with people in general. It is the Pakistani Army that I have issue with(As it practically runs your country & decides everything). PakistanI army(Pakistani State) should come clean & apologize for their actions. You expect healthy relations but cant even issue an apology? what sort of love is it?

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

there is a reason Pakistan hasnt made a state level apology because it is akin to take all the blame for 71 which is not fair and is also not historically accurate.

Pakistan should take all the blame for 71. They refused to hand over power to an elected party, went on to arrest the would be PM of the country, initiated operation searchlight killing thousands in one night & imposed a war on us.

 

[sweep_shot]

Your ethinic identity is the permanent one. One can change his/her nationality, religion but you cant shed away your ethinic identity. A Bangali, Punjabi, marathi etc. will remain so even if he/she tries/pretends to be something else.

When you die, it will not matter whether you are a Bengali or an African. What will matter is how lived your life.

Ethnic background is really not a big deal.

 

[sweep_shot]

Pakistan should take all the blame for 71. They refused to hand over power to an elected party, went on to arrest the would be PM of the country, initiated operation searchlight killing thousands in one night & imposed a war on us.

We also didn't treat bihari Muslims well. Are we going to apologize for it? Also, you are dodging the question about holding British Empire accountable.

Do you agree British Empire has done far worse damage to Bengal? I see no outrage about British Empire.

 

[sweep_shot]

i would disagree with that to an extent. pakistan has much in common with bangladesh. One of my closest friends is bangladeshi. His wife makes some great curry that is similar to ours. Yes the ingredients are sometimes different but I see similarities. The majority of asian restaurants in the uk were started by bangladeshis serving karahi lamb curry etc.

There is also a bond from partition in 1947 and due to Islam. Our culture is close.

Finally we fought together and shed blood together then fought each other. That's what families do. Our bonds are sealed by blood in many cases. Many west pakistanis married into families in bangladesh. Dhaka was seen as a very cosmopolitan city for many pakistanis and many moved there.

as for the charge we want military ties or that i wish to see this. yes I do. All Muslim countries should have military ties. Thats irrelevant. Whats relevant is how do we go to our Bangladeshi brothers and once again embrace them so we can move forward.

Well said. I share this same sentiment and I am sure many Bangladeshis (unlike Istiaq_ctg) feel the same way.

May God preserve our brotherhood and protect us from external threats.

 

[the Great Khan]

Well said. I share this same sentiment and I am sure many Bangladeshis (unlike Istiaq_ctg) feel the same way.

May God preserve our brotherhood and protect us from external threats.

I know many do. They look around and see us living peacefully in places like the uk etc and then hear we used to be united and wonder what happened? Alot of pakistanis dont even know the details of 71 , same with young bangladeshis. Some of the wounds are still raw. No doubt. But we have to move forward or whats left for us? Do people think India or other countries care?

coming to brother Isthiaqs posts.
I understand where your coming from. I get it. My father in law fought in 71, another person I know fought in Dhaka in the PAF. None of them have good things to say about that war.

nobody likes Yahya and even today Bhutto is reviled in many parts of Pakistan for what he did. But understand the Pakistan army of 71 is not the same as the one today. its a totally different force. You see when you fight the kind of war that we did over the last ten years it changes you.

I believe we need a proper truth and reconciliation commission and I do believe Imran should go to Dhaka give a speech and apologise for the atrocities committed there. However it should be done in a way that does not absolve the other side from blame either. Atrocities were committed on both sides. Thats why after the apology i think bangladesh and pakistan should work together to heal the wounds of the past and open deeper ties. But it should be done tactfully and smartly.

 

[Napa]

I However it should be done in a way that does not absolve the other side from blame either. Atrocities were committed on both sides.

That’s a false equivalence. One side had an army with machine guns, tanks, aircraft etc, while the other side was civilians with a few paramilitary.

After massacring civilians, the side with the army surrendered without a fight when another army entered the war.

 

[the Great Khan]

That’s a false equivalence. One side had an army with machine guns, tanks, aircraft etc, while the other side was civilians with a few paramilitary.

After massacring civilians, the side with the army surrendered without a fight when another army entered the war.

I'm not here to discuss 71 with an Indian. If you want you can open a new thread. Your country were far from heroes or humanitarians in this one.