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Pakistan v England | 2nd T20I | NSK | 22 September 2022 | Pre-match discussion

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MenInG

MenInG

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Disappointing effort by Pakistan batters against spin from England - that needs to change for the next game.

What changes should Pakistan make?

Is the Shan experiment over? or should they persist?
 
Switch Shan with Haider
Play Asif Ali instead of Khushdil
Play extra spinner instead of 3 pacers
 
Could be the end of Shahnawaz Dahani for a considerable amount of time. No pace, slot balls, lethargic in the field. In short, a terrible outing. He may get a couple of games more in the series but I don't think he gets into the team anymore after this series.
 
We don't have a quality opener apart from Babar and Rizwan so would stick with them however it should be
Rizwan
Babar
Harris
Nawaz
Iftikhar
Asif
Shadab
WasimJr.
Naseem
Rauf
Dhani
 
Saim Ayoub is the very talented opener. The guy have got all the shots and play modern day cricket. For the sake of experiment this 11 should have selected and gave the much needed rest to Babar and Rizwan
1. Shan Masood
2. Saim Ayub
3. Haider Ali
4. Iftikhar
5. Keeper Azam or Haris
6. Shadab
7. Asif Ali
8. Aamir Jamaal
9. Wasim jnr
10. Naseem
11. Haris Rouf
 
Point to Ponder

Has anybody got to know what is Pakistan strategy or planning tbh I failed to figure out what was their objective strutted in middle overs mindless bowling changes
 
For 2nd T20 this should be the squad. Babar need to sacrifice his position for the sake of team combination
1. Rizwan
2. Shan Masood
3. Babar
4. Haider
5. Iftikhar
6. Asif Ali
7. Nawaz
8. Shadab
9. Wasim jnr
10. Naseem
11. Haris Rouf
 
Nasser Hussain with a very valid point: England are playing the batsmen where they play in domestic cricket while Pakistan are playing Shan Masood at 4 with 5 overs to go. He is not a finisher, needs to open or come in at no.3.

The problem is really not the openers. If they go early we will struggle to get to 130. The middle order is non-existent.

Shadab is a must in this team. We are just wasting time with Usman Qadir to be honest. He is not international material.
 
Batting needs more depth. So one of Wasim Jr or Aamer Jamal should be thought about to replace one of the seamers. When Shadab plays there would be opportunity for even 6 bowlers including 4 pacers if required.
 
Jamal in for useless Khushdil.

Play without making it look like a warmup game. With some intensity.
 
They need jamal for naseem or dhani i think going australia we do need a fast bowler who can bat..shan shud defo be batting third
 
Harping about the non existent middle order.

80 percent of the time the middle order comes after 13 overs.

You need stroke makers if 75 percent of the innings are going to be faced by openers.

Not players who consolidate at 13th over or need time to settle in.

3 and 4 as consolidators only work if the openers are aggressive and risky

If you have Babar and Rizwan in the side, you simply need stroke players who dont take time to settle from number 3 onwards.
 
We didn’t have Babar opening with Rizwan pre Misbah and we were just fine as a batting unit!

Misbah has destroyed a very good team for no reason whatsoever!
 
England will win , whatever changes you make. Pakistan needs to plan long term , with proper coaches and players . have separate set of players for didfferent formats.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Harping about the non existent middle order.

80 percent of the time the middle order comes after 13 overs.

You need stroke makers if 75 percent of the innings are going to be faced by openers.

Not players who consolidate at 13th over or need time to settle in.

3 and 4 as consolidators only work if the openers are aggressive and risky

If you have Babar and Rizwan in the side, you simply need stroke players who dont take time to settle from number 3 onwards.
Click to expand...

And where are these strokemakers you are talking about? The middle order as of today is non-existent. As I said, if the openers go early the middle-order batsmen don't have it in them to take the game ahead. They can't pace their innings. Out of the blue a wild swing will come out and back to pavilion they go. With the current players Babar and Rizwan have no other choice than playing 10 overs themselves.

What they can start with doing is to split Babar and Rizwan and get an aggressive opener in. Maybe that will help, but they definately need Shadab back for Usman Qadir and Shaheen back as the leader of the bowling unit.
 
Rana said:
We didn’t have Babar opening with Rizwan pre Misbah and we were just fine as a batting unit!

Misbah has destroyed a very good team for no reason whatsoever!
Click to expand...

I think your getting confused . Babar has opened mainly . Rizwan opened down under as Fakhar zaman got injured last minute .
 
If Khushdil isnt bowling at all, then I dont see a point of playing him at all. Need to get another allrounder who can chip in a few overs at least.
 
aamer jamal for khushdil for the remainder of series
m harris for ifti for atleast 4 of 7 games.... if does well persist.... invest in him rather than grandpa...

and obv shadab when fit takes his spot from UQ
 
I am not too concern with results, I want to see better intent, and now is the time for Pakistan to experiment ( just a bit ) nothing too drastic, maybe keep the same team more or less, but shuffle the order a bit

Maybe allow Haidar to open, or even Asif Ali but try thinking outside of the box, see what can work. You do not want to try too much well world cup starts, now is the time to make some changes, and try new things.

However I am sure Pakistan will stick with same batting order, and maybe they will make on change, possibly they will switch a bowler for a bowler.

One thing is clear Khushdil should not be in this t20 squad. The sooner they figure this out the better for us.
 
IAJ said:
And where are these strokemakers you are talking about? The middle order as of today is non-existent. As I said, if the openers go early the middle-order batsmen don't have it in them to take the game ahead. They can't pace their innings. Out of the blue a wild swing will come out and back to pavilion they go. With the current players Babar and Rizwan have no other choice than playing 10 overs themselves.

What they can start with doing is to split Babar and Rizwan and get an aggressive opener in. Maybe that will help, but they definately need Shadab back for Usman Qadir and Shaheen back as the leader of the bowling unit.
Click to expand...

And how will you find the middle order?

Babar and Rizwan are playing every game as if to prove they are the best openers in the world.. In almost every match they hit a partnership of 80 in 10 to 12 odd overs at the same average to above average pace. Then one of them gets out.

Either the RR has by that time reached 10 per over for the middle over batsmen to come and strike from ball one and win the game OR the remaining 8 overs have to be hit for 80 runs to set a target.

Babar and Rizwan should not be playing ANY match of this series.

We already know our openers.

But if they get out early in World Cup, the fact that middle order would have no clue how to approach the game with 15 overs left would be disastrous.

Why are Babar and Rizwan still playing?
 
Dr_Bassim said:
And how will you find the middle order?

Babar and Rizwan are playing every game as if to prove they are the best openers in the world.. In almost every match they hit a partnership of 80 in 10 to 12 odd overs at the same average to above average pace. Then one of them gets out.

Either the RR has by that time reached 10 per over for the middle over batsmen to come and strike from ball one and win the game OR the remaining 8 overs have to be hit for 80 runs to set a target.

Babar and Rizwan should not be playing ANY match of this series.

We already know our openers.

But if they get out early in World Cup, the fact that middle order would have no clue how to approach the game with 15 overs left would be disastrous.

Why are Babar and Rizwan still playing?
Click to expand...

Babar and Rizwan are playing because they will not allow any player to steal their opening spot by playing a blinder!
 
I think they should rest Rizwan. He has playing too much cricket and doesn't look 100% fit. His keeping is starting to get messy too. Let Shaan Open and Mohammed Haris to come in at number 3.

I don't really care about this series. England have brought a B/C team and Pakistan should not be fielding their top players for all the series. Babar, Haris Rauf, Nawaz, Shadab and Naseem should be playing less in this series.

A 7 match T20 series is overkill. Should have been a 3 match series as the conditions will be so much diffrent in Australia for the world cup.
 
I'm to the point now, just as after the cowardly pitch preparation for Australia, where I wish England to win all 7 of the games, and for Pakistan to make an early exit from the World Cup.

Mickey and Sarfraz had a good thing going with T20s, and Misbah came and ruined it, making that opening combination, and changing the whole philosophy of the game to preserving wickets rather than playing T20s the way they're supposed to be played.

Saqlain has no authority as a coach so he never altered Misbah's T20 philosophy after he came in, and it will never change until Saqlain is gone.

Babar, I have finally concluded, is never going to be a good captain. Things won't get better until he leaves the T20 captaincy. This was your worst captain by far in the PSL who made a joke out of KK and he's your national captain.

If you go by statistics, they should be playing Saim Ayub, Sahibzada Farhan, and Tayyab Tahir as batsmen, not bring back Shan Masood, who has his limitations. What is the point of the domestic setup?

Usman Qadir should never have played for Pakistan after the Asia Cup, but here he is, friend and relative!

And as expected, they didn't try the two brand-new players in this game.

Pathetic, disgusting, losing approach. It's not about winning, it's about showing intelligence. Which they don't have.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This middle lower order of iftikhar khushdil nawaz is just trash. They need to play md wasim and hasnain. Dahani is useless
 
need to try something out of box this middle order is fragile even to play club cricket let alone intl. level

1.Rizwan 2.Haider 3.Babar 4.Nawaz 5.Itikhar 6.Asif 7.Shadab 8.Wasim 9.Naseem 10.Shaheen 11.Rauf

Such pathetic squad by selectors that whatever you do 2 out of Asif Ifti and Khusdil automatically gets in
 
Behind the scenes footage...

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/uci6wv" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
Can the sense prevails in this one.

I don't understand how bad khushdil the useless player ever shah has to play so he gets kicked out.
Shahnawaz dahani should not play over hasnain.

He cares about his gimmick more than the performance.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Harping about the non existent middle order.

80 percent of the time the middle order comes after 13 overs.

You need stroke makers if 75 percent of the innings are going to be faced by openers.

Not players who consolidate at 13th over or need time to settle in.

3 and 4 as consolidators only work if the openers are aggressive and risky

If you have Babar and Rizwan in the side, you simply need stroke players who dont take time to settle from number 3 onwards.
Click to expand...
Excuses.

The middle-order batsmen have had enough time to play themselves in and then score freely. The current lot we have are terrible players, simple as that.
 
Anis Shivani said:
I'm to the point now, just as after the cowardly pitch preparation for Australia, where I wish England to win all 7 of the games, and for Pakistan to make an early exit from the World Cup.

Mickey and Sarfraz had a good thing going with T20s, and Misbah came and ruined it, making that opening combination, and changing the whole philosophy of the game to preserving wickets rather than playing T20s the way they're supposed to be played.

Saqlain has no authority as a coach so he never altered Misbah's T20 philosophy after he came in, and it will never change until Saqlain is gone.

Babar, I have finally concluded, is never going to be a good captain. Things won't get better until he leaves the T20 captaincy. This was your worst captain by far in the PSL who made a joke out of KK and he's your national captain.

If you go by statistics, they should be playing Saim Ayub, Sahibzada Farhan, and Tayyab Tahir as batsmen, not bring back Shan Masood, who has his limitations. What is the point of the domestic setup?

Usman Qadir should never have played for Pakistan after the Asia Cup, but here he is, friend and relative!

And as expected, they didn't try the two brand-new players in this game.

Pathetic, disgusting, losing approach. It's not about winning, it's about showing intelligence. Which they don't have.
Click to expand...

Potw
 
Anis Shivani said:
I'm to the point now, just as after the cowardly pitch preparation for Australia, where I wish England to win all 7 of the games, and for Pakistan to make an early exit from the World Cup.

Mickey and Sarfraz had a good thing going with T20s, and Misbah came and ruined it, making that opening combination, and changing the whole philosophy of the game to preserving wickets rather than playing T20s the way they're supposed to be played.

Saqlain has no authority as a coach so he never altered Misbah's T20 philosophy after he came in, and it will never change until Saqlain is gone.

Babar, I have finally concluded, is never going to be a good captain. Things won't get better until he leaves the T20 captaincy. This was your worst captain by far in the PSL who made a joke out of KK and he's your national captain.

If you go by statistics, they should be playing Saim Ayub, Sahibzada Farhan, and Tayyab Tahir as batsmen, not bring back Shan Masood, who has his limitations. What is the point of the domestic setup?

Usman Qadir should never have played for Pakistan after the Asia Cup, but here he is, friend and relative!

And as expected, they didn't try the two brand-new players in this game.

Pathetic, disgusting, losing approach. It's not about winning, it's about showing intelligence. Which they don't have.
Click to expand...
Shan Masood has performed as a middle-order batsman, and Tayyab Tahir is the only batter in that list of yours that can replace him. Tahir has zero experience of Australian conditions and he will get devoured there by any half decent bowler.

We just don’t have any ready MO batsman right now, after Hafeez and Malik. All stink.
 
Khushdil Shah is the most useless player ever. He has scored 63 runs at 114 strike rate in last 7 innings and if you take out his lucky innings against Hong Kong it will come down to 28 runs in 6 innings.

He is absolutely terrible why can't the management see it. I don't understand.
 
I am glad that Moeen is ENG skipper. Good diplomatic optics for this tour.
 
saabir said:
For 2nd T20 this should be the squad. Babar need to sacrifice his position for the sake of team combination
1. Rizwan
2. Shan Masood
3. Babar
4. Haider
5. Iftikhar
6. Asif Ali
7. Nawaz
8. Shadab
9. Wasim jnr
10. Naseem
11. Haris Rouf
Click to expand...

This is a pretty good squad
 
Nasser Hussain saying "Nasser Hussain "Shan Masood suddenly comes in at number 4, that makes no sense to me at all him coming into bat with just 5 overs to go. He's not a finisher, he's a top-order batter" #PAKvENG #Cricket
 
I expect Pakistan to bounce back and make it 1-1.

Pakistan middle-order need to fire.
 
saabir said:
For 2nd T20 this should be the squad. Babar need to sacrifice his position for the sake of team combination
1. Rizwan
2. Shan Masood
3. Babar
4. Haider
5. Iftikhar
6. Asif Ali
7. Nawaz
8. Shadab
9. Wasim jnr
10. Naseem
11. Haris Rouf
Click to expand...

Solid Team from the current squad.
 
Kianig89 said:
Nasser Hussain saying "Nasser Hussain "Shan Masood suddenly comes in at number 4, that makes no sense to me at all him coming into bat with just 5 overs to go. He's not a finisher, he's a top-order batter" #PAKvENG #Cricket
Click to expand...

He should open or bat at 3.
 
Shan Masood opening with Rizwan would be a good start. Babar at No.4 with Mohammad Haris at No.3. Ifti 5, Nawaz 6 and Aamer Jamal No.7.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Shan Masood has performed as a middle-order batsman, and Tayyab Tahir is the only batter in that list of yours that can replace him. Tahir has zero experience of Australian conditions and he will get devoured there by any half decent bowler.

We just don’t have any ready MO batsman right now, after Hafeez and Malik. All stink.
Click to expand...

Seven games is plenty of time to try out the best performers from the national T20 cup. We don't want to go back to Malik and Hafeez but how will we ever know who we have in the middle order unless we give all the guys a fair chance? But here they are, playing Rizwan and the usual suspects, and probably will for the majority of the games, if not all of them. The new players wouldn't so much be to rely on for the imminent World Cup but to prepare for the future. That's what these meaningless bilateral series are for. Nobody remembers the outcome a minute after the game is concluded.
 
Rana said:
Potw
Click to expand...

Thanks.
I was listening to Wahab Riaz analyzing the game. I've heard him on podcasts too in the past and found him very intelligent. Babar doesn't have that kind of cricketing intelligence and never will.
 
Please that should be it for “ happy heart” i rather have asif than him.
 
Anis Shivani said:
Seven games is plenty of time to try out the best performers from the national T20 cup. We don't want to go back to Malik and Hafeez but how will we ever know who we have in the middle order unless we give all the guys a fair chance? But here they are, playing Rizwan and the usual suspects, and probably will for the majority of the games, if not all of them. The new players wouldn't so much be to rely on for the imminent World Cup but to prepare for the future. That's what these meaningless bilateral series are for. Nobody remembers the outcome a minute after the game is concluded.
Click to expand...
All I see is criticism but no solutions. Which new players are we talking about here, who can realistically perform well at the World Cup? Did we not learn anything from the Danish Aziz experiment, where the lad was chucked into conditions completely alien to him and expectedly failed?

How will we prepare for the future when there are no ready replacements for Hafeez and Malik? Give Haider and Shan this series and the Tri-Series, then decide which two of Haider, Shan, Iftikhar and Khushdil you want to play in the World Cup. Asif Ali should not be dropped.
 
Problem starts with wanna be coach Saqlain. then Babar and it goes on...
Get a proper coach, make Shadab captain and keep only 1 accumulator (Rizwan) in the team. Give licence to our players hit and play with intent. No need Khusdil, Ifti, Usman. Make Asif 1 down follows by Haider (Use him as a slogger). Rizwan and Shan to open.
 
Shadab shouldn't be rushed back. Took a pretty nasty bump in Asia Cup final to the head.

Asif should play ahead of Khushdil.
Wasim if fit should come in as well as he can't do worse than the current batters.
Send Nawaz up the order.
 
I’m hoping for Jamal and Asif to play

At least something to look forward to
 
Hopefully Saqlain will turn the page of his coaching manual need something extraordinary that reliance on toss should be abolished his methods have become quite abhorrent this could turn nasty if Eng win tonight 0-7
 
Usman Chadda said:
All I see is criticism but no solutions. Which new players are we talking about here, who can realistically perform well at the World Cup? Did we not learn anything from the Danish Aziz experiment, where the lad was chucked into conditions completely alien to him and expectedly failed?

How will we prepare for the future when there are no ready replacements for Hafeez and Malik? Give Haider and Shan this series and the Tri-Series, then decide which two of Haider, Shan, Iftikhar and Khushdil you want to play in the World Cup. Asif Ali should not be dropped.
Click to expand...

I just said the new players would be not so much to prepare for this World Cup but for the longer-term future. As for which names? I and others have offered plenty of names here. Going by pure statistics, Saim Ayub, Tayyeb Taher, Sharjeel Khan, and Sahibzada Ferhan. I didn't watch much of the national tournament, but if I had then I could go beyond statistics and make better judgments depending on quality of bowling and other factors, which is the selector's job. I would throw in five batsmen, three fast-bowling all-rounders, and three spinners who performed best in the national tournament, and see who is closest to competing at the international level. Rest the main players for the England series. This World Cup is a lost cause anyway. Pakistan got lucky at the Asia Cup. I kept harping on the importance of the toss. They could easily have lost all the games except for the one against Hong Kong had they lost a couple more tosses. This team is hiding a lot of weaknesses.
 
MenInG said:
Disappointing effort by Pakistan batters against spin from England - that needs to change for the next game.

What changes should Pakistan make?

Is the Shan experiment over? or should they persist?
Click to expand...

Shan is a tried and tested failure at international stage. He can not i repeat CAN NOT do any better than what Rizwan or Babar are doing at 1&2. not sure why he is being over hyped
 
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