Pakistan vs India, in India, 5 match Test series, on rank turners

street cricketer · Sep 25, 2016

Slog said:
So?

Older batsmen generally play spin much better than pace. Loss of reflexes affect your ability to make sudden changes against pace bowling rather than spin.

street cricketer · Sep 25, 2016

Haroon786 said:
How many of the teams they're playing have got good spinners ?

That can be said for Pakistan as well.

It's a fact that only India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka have quality spinners. And both India and Pakistan trounced Lanka in their own home. The only real test for Pak batsmen is against the Indian spinners and vice versa, which won't happen unfortunately.

Haroon786 · Sep 25, 2016

Sidilicious said:
It can be tested in India where we play half of our test matches!

I am not sure you get the point that. India has batted pretty well in Aus, SA, NZ, WI and SL. We haven't done very well in England and India. In India, I believe that if we play these many tests, we will get our solidity in tests back, like our previous generation used to have (not to that extent, but still pretty solid). In Eng, lets see in 2018 whether our batsmen have learnt from their previous mistakes.

What I mean is that sure you have the current run of home Tests going on, but after these you will probably have a long run of away Tests to play where it's not your spin playing ability that gets tested but rather your seamer playing ability.

Haroon786 · Sep 25, 2016

street cricketer said:
That can be said for Pakistan as well.

It's a fact that only India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka have quality spinners. And both India and Pakistan trounced Lanka in their own home. The only real test for Pak batsmen is against the Indian spinners and vice versa, which won't happen unfortunately.

This point is fair enough since it is a Pakistan vs India thread, but generally when someone points out a weakness relating to India, the only thing that should be discussed is the merit of that argument and not bringing in Pakistan which sounds like sour grapes at times.

street cricketer · Sep 25, 2016

Haroon786 said:
This point is fair enough since it is a Pakistan vs India thread, but generally when someone points out a weakness relating to India, the only thing that should be discussed is the merit of that argument and not bringing in Pakistan which sounds like sour grapes at times.

That has been happening for a long time and both sets of fans are guilty of that.

Haroon786 · Sep 25, 2016

street cricketer said:
That has been happening for a long time and both sets of fans are guilty of that.

Yep, thankfully the TP section has somewhat cooled down from the India vs Pakistan mêlée that used to ensue every day around 6 months ago but it's still inherently present, albeit in threads not directly related to the two countries.

Sidilicious · Sep 25, 2016

Haroon786 said:
What I mean is that sure you have the current run of home Tests going on, but after these you will probably have a long run of away Tests to play where it's not your spin playing ability that gets tested but rather your seamer playing ability.

Fair enough.

But we have batted well in away conditions so far with a very young team. This line up will be more experienced the next time around, so I expect good performances still. The only country where we have failed abroad is England.

But since we are discussing an India vs Pak match on a spin wicket, it is India's spin batting ability that is in question. Currently, the Pakistan spin batting ability is better than India's, but if the Indian batsmen get an extended run playing on spin wickets, they might improve that aspect of their batting to give the Pakistani batsmen a good run for their money.

Haroon786 · Sep 25, 2016

Sidilicious said:
Fair enough.

But we have batted well in away conditions so far with a very young team. This line up will be more experienced the next time around, so I expect good performances still. The only country where we have failed abroad is England.

But since we are discussing an India vs Pak match on a spin wicket, it is India's spin batting ability that is in question. Currently, the Pakistan spin batting ability is better than India's, but if the Indian batsmen get an extended run playing on spin wickets, they might improve that aspect of their batting to give the Pakistani batsmen a good run for their money.

A year or two down the road, this Pakistani team could probably have a completely different complexion with Misbah, YK, Hafeez (sacked), Wahab (over 30 as a fast bowler) and Zulfi (old) all potentially retiring or getting replaced the team could be totally different and hence not comparable to the current one.

Bilal7 · Sep 25, 2016

street cricketer said:
That can be said for Pakistan as well.

It's a fact that only India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka have quality spinners. And both India and Pakistan trounced Lanka in their own home. The only real test for Pak batsmen is against the Indian spinners and vice versa, which won't happen unfortunately.

A complete and utter lie. The Indian batsmen are getting trounced by medicore spinners everywhere. Moeen, Elgar, Harmer, Tahir and Lyon have all done well against them, recently. Some of these batsmen were also part of the team that was destroyed by England at home, the same team that we destroyed a few months earlier.

Pakistan batsmen are much better against spin than Indian batsmen, and slightly better batsmen overall. Our spin attack is comparable or slightly inferior to the Indian attack and our pace attack is better.

This is why Pakistan would win a test series against their arch-rivals pretty comfortably.

street cricketer · Sep 25, 2016

Bilal7 said:
A complete and utter lie. The Indian batsmen are getting trounced by medicore spinners everywhere. Moeen, Elgar, Harmer, Tahir and Lyon have all done well against them, recently. Some of these batsmen were also part of the team that was destroyed by England at home, the same team that we destroyed a few months earlier.

Pakistan batsmen are much better against spin than Indian batsmen, and slightly better batsmen overall. Our spin attack is comparable or slightly inferior to the Indian attack and our pace attack is better.

This is why Pakistan would win a test series against their arch-rivals pretty comfortably.

Lol please read my post again.

troodon · Sep 25, 2016

Bilal7 said:
A complete and utter lie. The Indian batsmen are getting trounced by medicore spinners everywhere. Moeen, Elgar, Harmer, Tahir and Lyon have all done well against them, recently. Some of these batsmen were also part of the team that was destroyed by England at home, the same team that we destroyed a few months earlier.

Pakistan batsmen are much better against spin than Indian batsmen, and slightly better batsmen overall. Our spin attack is comparable or slightly inferior to the Indian attack and our pace attack is better.

This is why Pakistan would win a test series against their arch-rivals pretty comfortably.

Every time ashwin played against Pak, he was unplayable for your batsmen. Even Mishra looked like Warne against your batsmen.

On the other hand, no Pak spinner troubled India in the last decade barring Ajmal on a few occasions.

Put your green goggles down.

Slog · Sep 25, 2016

street cricketer said:
Older batsmen generally play spin much better than pace. Loss of reflexes affect your ability to make sudden changes against pace bowling rather than spin.

false equivalence

Suleiman · Sep 25, 2016

Pakistani batsmen could hit a beyblade spinning at 140 kph out of the park.

Slog · Sep 25, 2016

troodon said:
Every time ashwin played against Pak, he was unplayable for your batsmen. Even Mishra looked like Warne against your batsmen.

On the other hand, no Pak spinner troubled India in the last decade barring Ajmal on a few occasions.

Put your green goggles down.

lol at 'EVERY TIME'

Do people even bother checking fact before stating stuff?

his only performance of note (barely) was the 2-30 odd in the CT2013 game. And one of those wickets was Wahab. And he was ok in the Adelaide match but the game was gone by the time he got in proper.

otherwise he was choking against Afridi in the final over.

street cricketer · Sep 25, 2016

Slog said:
false equivalence

In what way?

JattMaula · Sep 25, 2016

Slog said:
lol at 'EVERY TIME'

Do people even bother checking fact before stating stuff?

his only performance of note (barely) was the 2-30 odd in the CT2013 game. And one of those wickets was Wahab. And he was ok in the Adelaide match but the game was gone by the time he got in proper.

otherwise he was choking against Afridi in the final over.

Lala is the beast. His performance doesn't deserve to be lowering to these petty debates!

Ellipsism · Sep 25, 2016

Pakistan should win, though it won't be as easy as some of the posters here are making it out to be.

sensible-indian-fan · Nov 3, 2016

Bump.

Let the fight begin. :bm

It doesn't seem as one sided now is it?

Will be a close fought contest.

Mamoon · Nov 3, 2016

Pakistan Test team is not as mentally strong as some here like to think, and Pakistan vs India more often than not comes down to mental pressure.

India should win in India while it should be a draw in the UAE. Don't think either Pakistan or India have the bowling firepower to take wickets on UAE pitches. Matches in India will be result oriented, and our ability to play spin is massively overrated.

In India, it will come down to Ashwin/Jadeja vs Yasir/?, and the Indian duo is comfortably ahead of any potential duo we might come up with. Individually, Ashwin has the edge over Yasir as well so on rank turners, India definitely holds considerable advantage over Pakistan.

shaz619 · Nov 3, 2016

Mamoon said:
Pakistan Test team is not as mentally strong as some here like to think, and Pakistan vs India more often than not comes down to mental pressure.

India should win in India while it should be a draw in the UAE. Don't think either Pakistan or India have the bowling firepower to take wickets on UAE pitches. Matches in India will be result oriented, and our ability to play spin is massively overrated.

In India, it will come down to Ashwin/Jadeja vs Yasir/?, and the Indian duo is comfortably ahead of any potential duo we might come up with. Individually, Ashwin has the edge over Yasir as well so on rank turners, India definitely holds considerable advantage over Pakistan.

This is our greatest Test Team since the Inzi/Woolmer era and the same team whom you expected to get destroyed in England, they also live out a suitcase and Tests are also our strongest format so it is beyond me how you have come to question their mental strength.

If anything, we have seen in recent times that when India have been met with a real challenge they have lacked heart. So am sorry to say that if they are brave enough to ever face us they will be humiliated in a way you'd never be able to imagine, the same way you never expected us to draw level in England or remain unbeaten in the UAE. Relish in our greatness brother, it may be a long time before we see a pak team like this again :bow:

am tearing up, we are so magnificient mashaAllah

Tusker · Nov 3, 2016

shaz619 said:
This is our greatest Test Team since the Inzi/Woolmer era and the same team whom you expected to get destroyed in England, they also live out a suitcase and Tests are also our strongest format so it is beyond me how you have come to question their mental strength.

The thing is India has not lost a single Test Match to WI since 2002 (When they still had some big names like Lara/Shiv/Hooper/Gayle/Sarwan in the Team) and if you consider at Home the last occurrence was back in 1994. Both waay before Inzi/Woolmer ERA. Whereas Pakistan has lost a Test today and in past tours (on a decent batting track well inside 4 days worth of play BTW ) and came close to an embarrassing loss in the 1st Test. Top teams dont lose to bottom ranked teams in Test matches like this.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...eam=6;template=results;type=team;view=results

If anything, we have seen in recent times that when India have been met with a real challenge they have lacked heart. So am sorry to say that if they are brave enough to ever face us they will be humiliated in a way you'd never be able to imagine, the same way you never expected us to draw level in England or remain unbeaten in the UAE. Relish in our greatness brother, it may be a long time before we see a pak team like this again am tearing up, we are so magnificient mashaAllah

I guess there is no bravado involved when we meet in ODI's during ICC World Events ?

shaz619 · Nov 3, 2016

Tusker said:
The thing is India has not lost a single Test Match to WI since 2002 (When they still had some big names like Lara/Shiv/Hooper/Gayle/Sarwan in the Team) and if you consider at Home the last occurrence was back in 1994. Both waay before Inzi/Woolmer ERA. Whereas Pakistan has lost a Test today and in past tours (on a decent batting track well inside 4 days worth of play BTW ) and came close to an embarrassing loss in the 1st Test. Top teams dont lose to bottom ranked teams in Test matches like this.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...eam=6;template=results;type=team;view=results

I guess there is no bravado involved when we meet in ODI's during ICC World Events ?

Aww somebody hurt yo feelings? that's what your have to resort to, performances in mickey mouse cricket when you can never test us in the ultimate format :yk2

Mamoon · Nov 3, 2016

shaz619 said:
This is our greatest Test Team since the Inzi/Woolmer era and the same team whom you expected to get destroyed in England, they also live out a suitcase and Tests are also our strongest format so it is beyond me how you have come to question their mental strength.

If anything, we have seen in recent times that when India have been met with a real challenge they have lacked heart. So am sorry to say that if they are brave enough to ever face us they will be humiliated in a way you'd never be able to imagine, the same way you never expected us to draw level in England or remain unbeaten in the UAE. Relish in our greatness brother, it may be a long time before we see a pak team like this again am tearing up, we are so magnificient mashaAllah

I take responsibility for underestimating Pakistan in England, but I also did not take into account the injuries to Anderson and Stokes and the two flat wickets. Nonetheless, I am not discrediting Pakistan because as I have said before, you still have to perform when certain things go your way and Pakistan was very efficient in that regard.

The 2014-15 team was mentally strong and un-Pakistani like; it managed to fight their way out of precarious positions numerous times, situations in which our previous teams crumbled.

However, I fear that we are losing that edge now. The day 5 Edgbaston choke, the collapses now in this series. It seems like the mental frailties of our batsmen are back in business.

Hamza_ · Nov 3, 2016

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] you are seriously going over with this all done and dusted thing. Batting collapsed purely due to lapse of concentration which rarely lacks in our test team. How many times do you think Sami and Misbah will gift their wickets like this? We simply handed over this test to Windies. Its not due to some massive issues but pure lapse of concentration and focus

shaz619 · Nov 3, 2016

Mamoon said:
I take responsibility for underestimating Pakistan in England, but I also did not take into account the injuries to Anderson and Stokes and the two flat wickets. Nonetheless, I am not discrediting Pakistan because as I have said before, you still have to perform when certain things go your way and Pakistan was very efficient in that regard.

The 2014-15 team was mentally strong and un-Pakistani like; it managed to fight their way out of precarious positions numerous times, situations in which our previous teams crumbled.

However, I fear that we are losing that edge now. The day 5 Edgbaston choke, the collapses now in this series. It seems like the mental frailties of our batsmen are back in business.

They are a world class team 2 players would not have damaged their chances significantly enough to the point where they'd be unable to compete, Woakes more then filled the void left by Stokes and Anderson is world class but he'd not get the conditions he did in 2010 anyway.

I agree on that with you, it does seem like we are losing the edge; drawing level with England took a lot out of us physically and mentally. We've not prepared well enough for NZ/AUS tours as we did for England as well, I get the feeling they've lost that eye of the tiger.

joly · Nov 3, 2016

The game changer will be Indian pace bowling and the tail which is >>>>>>>> Pakistani pace bowling and tail,rest of the factors like Pakistani batting being slightly ahead of India and Indian spin duo surpassing Yasir will even out

Mamoon · Nov 3, 2016

Hamzakhalid said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] you are seriously going over with this all done and dusted thing. Batting collapsed purely due to lapse of concentration which rarely lacks in our test team. How many times do you think Sami and Misbah will gift their wickets like this? We simply handed over this test to Windies. Its not due to some massive issues but pure lapse of concentration and focus

We have a long, documented history of being a mentally weak batting unit, so it is normal for us to get wary about it because it could mean we are back to old ways after resisting our impulse for 2 years.

Mamoon · Nov 3, 2016

shaz619 said:
They are a world class team 2 players would not have damaged their chances significantly enough to the point where they'd be unable to compete, Woakes more then filled the void left by Stokes and Anderson is world class but he'd not get the conditions he did in 2010 anyway.

I agree on that with you, it does seem like we are losing the edge; drawing level with England took a lot out of us physically and mentally. We've not prepared well enough for NZ/AUS tours as we did for England as well, I get the feeling they've lost that eye of the tiger.

Australian tour is always a nightmare for us. If we get thrashed like usual, it could set us back big time.

Bilal7 · Nov 3, 2016

We would still beat India 4-1 if such a series ever took place with the one loss being the result of a customary once-in-a-series collapse.

A dead-rubber loss against the Windies doesn't change anything. As for the pessimists fearing we have lost our edge; I'm sure we could whitewash Australia in Australia and these same people would still be predicting death and destruction for Pakistan cricket so I wouldn't pay too much attention to them.

Mp812 · Nov 3, 2016

India have extended their lead at the top of ICC Test rankings courtesy to second-placed Pakistan's defeat in the third and final Test against West Indies on Thursday. Kraigg Brathwaite and Shane Dowrich struck unbeaten half-centuries to guide West Indies to a first Test victory in 14 matches as the Caribbean side beat Pakistan by five wickets in Sharjah.

Although Pakistan won the series, they are now six rating points behind India who stand at 115 ratings points and just 1 point ahead of Australia.

India is expected to extend its lead further with the home series against England given current England batting problems against spin.With Australia also facing South Africa in a Test series Down Under, Pakistan will find it difficult to hold on to it’s second position.

troodon · Nov 3, 2016

Bilal7 said:
We would still beat India 4-1 if such a series ever took place with the one loss being the result of a customary once-in-a-series collapse.

A dead-rubber loss against the Windies doesn't change anything. As for the pessimists fearing we have lost our edge; I'm sure we could whitewash Australia in Australia and these same people would still be predicting death and destruction for Pakistan cricket so I wouldn't pay too much attention to them.

You should have started the sentence with the word I believe.

You guys struggled against Bishoo of all people on a flat deck.

Hard to see Pak batting handling Mishra, Ashwin and Jadeja.

Tusker · Nov 4, 2016

shaz619 said:
Aww somebody hurt yo feelings? that's what your have to resort to, performances in mickey mouse cricket when you can never test us in the ultimate format

ohh bhai ... pehle Mickey Mouse Cricket mey bahaduri dikhao phir jaakar Test Criket mey dekhenge ... abhi tau haalat aisi hai ki Last rank waali Teams (WI today and ZIM 2 yrs ago) sey haar gaayi tumhari team .... lol.

Tusker · Nov 4, 2016

Bilal7 said:
We would still beat India 4-1 if such a series ever took place with the one loss being the result of a customary once-in-a-series collapse.

A dead-rubber loss against the Windies doesn't change anything. As for the pessimists fearing we have lost our edge; I'm sure we could whitewash Australia in Australia and these same people would still be predicting death and destruction for Pakistan cricket so I wouldn't pay too much attention to them.

Do you realize that WI came very close to beating Pak in the 1st Test too ? Only luck saved your team. Anyone who watched this series knows how difficult it was for Pakistan to win the series ... try convincing someone else.

Someguy · Nov 4, 2016

People talk of Jadeja as if he is a genuine spinner and out him next to ashwin and yasir. Jadeja is basically amir sohail 2.0, and misbah,younis, sarfraz, azhar will do a fine job of reminding him of that doesnt matter down much the pitches turn, vs pak a part time spinner can only go so far. Real contrst will be Ashwin vs pak batsmen, yasir vs indian batsmen, and it will be a cracker of a series. Although, i remember, Pak pacers running through the likes of kohli, sehwag, and yuvi in odis last time they visited.

Sadevdesai · Nov 4, 2016

This kind of, " Castles in the air " type, of series is worthless to talk about ... really !!! Each side would claim they would soundly beat the other .... with no real means to prove it or do it. So why indulge in it ??? Just to feel good about your team ???? As of today, the Indians are ahead of us in the Rankings, but we are not that far behind either. So, yesssss, we can beat them .... but then, they can beat us too !!! ..... Peace .... Please.

Bilal7 · Nov 4, 2016

troodon said:
You should have started the sentence with the word I believe.

You guys struggled against Bishoo of all people on a flat deck.

Hard to see Pak batting handling Mishra, Ashwin and Jadeja.

It's a fact, not an opinion. Pakistanis have better batsmen, pacers and spinners (arguably), fielders and a better captain. All India have is experience playing on rank-turners and the ability to create a Pakistani collapse in one of the matches.

Sidilicious · Nov 4, 2016

Bilal7 said:
It's a fact, not an opinion. Pakistanis have better batsmen, pacers and spinners (arguably), fielders and a better captain. All India have is experience playing on rank-turners and the ability to create a Pakistani collapse in one of the matches.

A few things to ponder
1. WI created 2 collapses for Pakistan in 3 tests, with a mediocre spin attack. India would induce only 1 collapse in 5 tests with a much much better spin attack than WI?

2. Are you telling me that a spin attack of Yasir + Md Nazawz + Zulfiqar > Ashwin + Mishra + Jadeja. Yasir is slightly better than Ashwin, but surely any unbiased person can see that Ashwin + Jadeja are better than Nawaz + Zulfiqar

3. How is a team that lost one test at home to the same opposition better than the team the team that beat the same opposition 2-0 in similar conditions (would have been worse had rain not intervened)?
Also, I am not saying that Ind > Pak. Pak due to its draw in England deserves to be rated higher, but it should lose a fair amount of brownie points for losing to WI

4. Batting - due to Misbah and Younis, you seem to have a better side against spin. But our remaining line up is surely better than your remaining batsman. Noted from the fact that a mediocre attack induced two collapses. So your batting may be better, but not by much.

5. Fielding - India is one of the more athletic fielding sides. And given the number of catches being dropped by both Pak and Ind both should be considered equal.

sarthak · Nov 4, 2016

Sidilicious said:
A few things to ponder
1. WI created 2 collapses for Pakistan in 3 tests, with a mediocre spin attack. India would induce only 1 collapse in 5 tests with a much much better spin attack than WI?

2. Are you telling me that a spin attack of Yasir + Md Nazawz + Zulfiqar > Ashwin + Mishra + Jadeja. Yasir is slightly better than Ashwin, but surely any unbiased person can see that Ashwin + Jadeja are better than Nawaz + Zulfiqar

3. How is a team that lost one test at home to the same opposition better than the team the team that beat the same opposition 2-0 in similar conditions (would have been worse had rain not intervened)?
Also, I am not saying that Ind > Pak. Pak due to its draw in England deserves to be rated higher, but it should lose a fair amount of brownie points for losing to WI

4. Batting - due to Misbah and Younis, you seem to have a better side against spin. But our remaining line up is surely better than your remaining batsman. Noted from the fact that a mediocre attack induced two collapses. So your batting may be better, but not by much.

5. Fielding - India is one of the more athletic fielding sides. And given the number of catches being dropped by both Pak and Ind both should be considered equal.

Hardly man. Nobody drops more catches than Pak.

Would be an interesting series though Pak's tendency to collapse against average spinners is indicative of what could happen.

Sidilicious · Nov 4, 2016

Sidilicious said:
A few things to ponder
1. WI created 2 collapses for Pakistan in 3 tests, with a mediocre spin attack. India would induce only 1 collapse in 5 tests with a much much better spin attack than WI?

2. Are you telling me that a spin attack of Yasir + Md Nazawz + Zulfiqar > Ashwin + Mishra + Jadeja. Yasir is slightly better than Ashwin, but surely any unbiased person can see that Ashwin + Jadeja are better than Nawaz + Zulfiqar

3. How is a team that lost one test at home to the same opposition better than the team the team that beat the same opposition 2-0 in similar conditions (would have been worse had rain not intervened)?
Also, I am not saying that Ind > Pak. Pak due to its draw in England deserves to be rated higher, but it should lose a fair amount of brownie points for losing to WI

4. Batting - due to Misbah and Younis, you seem to have a better side against spin. But our remaining line up is surely better than your remaining batsman. Noted from the fact that a mediocre attack induced two collapses. So your batting may be better, but not by much.

5. Fielding - India is one of the more athletic fielding sides. And given the number of catches being dropped by both Pak and Ind both should be considered equal.

I meant Mishra + Jadeja

Sidilicious · Nov 4, 2016

sarthak said:
Hardly man. Nobody drops more catches than Pak.

Would be an interesting series though Pak's tendency to collapse against average spinners is indicative of what could happen.

We too have dropped a few. So, can give the benefit of doubt to Pakistan and consider our catching equal.

Bilal7 · Nov 4, 2016

Sidilicious said:
A few things to ponder
1. WI created 2 collapses for Pakistan in 3 tests, with a mediocre spin attack. India would induce only 1 collapse in 5 tests with a much much better spin attack than WI?

2. Are you telling me that a spin attack of Yasir + Md Nazawz + Zulfiqar > Ashwin + Mishra + Jadeja. Yasir is slightly better than Ashwin, but surely any unbiased person can see that Ashwin + Jadeja are better than Nawaz + Zulfiqar

3. How is a team that lost one test at home to the same opposition better than the team the team that beat the same opposition 2-0 in similar conditions (would have been worse had rain not intervened)?
Also, I am not saying that Ind > Pak. Pak due to its draw in England deserves to be rated higher, but it should lose a fair amount of brownie points for losing to WI

4. Batting - due to Misbah and Younis, you seem to have a better side against spin. But our remaining line up is surely better than your remaining batsman. Noted from the fact that a mediocre attack induced two collapses. So your batting may be better, but not by much.

5. Fielding - India is one of the more athletic fielding sides. And given the number of catches being dropped by both Pak and Ind both should be considered equal.

This series is hardly anything to base your opinions off of. There was nothing in it for Pakistan and thus, they got complacent. Windies on the other hand played really well to prove to the world that their is still life in the old king.

Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq are equal if not better than Pujara and Kohli. Sarfaraz is much better than any keeper-batsman in India and Younis Khan is an ATG, levels above any India batsman.

I said that our spin attack is arguably better because I hope that this is the end of Zulfiqar Babar and one of our younger spinners will get a chance during the next series. Depending on how well Usama Mir/Afghar does, Pakistan's spin attack can trump India's.

Fielding isn't really a big factor because like you said, there is not much to choose between the two. However, Pakistan has better hands in the slips.

JattMaula · Nov 4, 2016

Bilal7 said:
Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq are equal if not better than Pujara and Kohli. Sarfaraz is much better than any keeper-batsman in India and Younis Khan is an ATG, levels above any India batsman.

Fielding isn't really a big factor because like you said, there is not much to choose between the two. However, Pakistan has better hands in the slips.

100% agreed.

anuk · Nov 4, 2016

pakistan 4- india 0

Chief Destroyer · Nov 4, 2016

It would be a hard fought series, can go either way. But we'd beat them anywhere else.

marlonbrowndo · Nov 4, 2016

We'd beat them 3-2 in Asia and 4-1/5-0 outside it

zulfiqar · Nov 4, 2016

MenInG said:
Why would you want to play with a country that doesnt want to play with you?

Maybe because it is one of the biggest international contests of all-time? A population of nearly 1.5 billion would come together to witness a sporting masterclass, where the top two countries battle each other for the #1 spot? It would be an amazing series! At least one group of people would hate to see it materialize, but take them and their propaganda out, the majority of both nations would love such a series to materialize. Would be a global event (that's 1/4 of the world population nearly).

Psychologically, our players don't have the mental toughness to win against India in their own backyard. If it was a neutral series though played anywhere else in the world (with pitches typical in the subcontinent): I back Pakistan to win the series 2-1.

Bhaag Viru Bhaag · Nov 4, 2016

There is no point in discussing this really thanks to BCCI.

shaz619 · Nov 4, 2016

Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
There is no point in discussing this really thanks to BCCI.

This is even more childish then Amir Khan and Kell Brook not fighting

Bachi · Nov 4, 2016

This poor pak team is minnow in oneday and twenty20. Standing bottom of the ICC rank table. Fortunately they got 2nd position in test. And now giving counter to India which is standing top of the table in test.

Hasan123 · Nov 4, 2016

I give credit for BCCI for giving there fans what they want a majority of the time. But why can't you just put your ego aside and give us this match? Pcb also hang your head in shame, you have hardly invested in our domestic and grassroots cricket leaving our domestic competition and LO teams in a shambles. Thankfully misbah and co have made us a solid test team.

Now try and get us a game against India so we can settle the debate about who is the best Test team.

Our batting is just a bit stronger but Indian batting is very strong. India spin attack just ahead, our seam attack is ahead imo but Shami and Bhuvi shouldn't be understimated.

Overall I think India would beat us in India and in uae I would back us to win.

Hasan123 · Nov 4, 2016

troodon said:
You should have started the sentence with the word I believe.

You guys struggled against Bishoo of all people on a flat deck.

Hard to see Pak batting handling Mishra, Ashwin and Jadeja.

An Indian batting line up has struggled vs JP,Moen Ali,Elgar,Harmer. So imagine what Yasir could to Indian batters.

Sachin136 · Nov 4, 2016

Hasan123 said:
An Indian batting line up has struggled vs JP,Moen Ali,Elgar,Harmer. So imagine what Yasir could to Indian batters.

What has Duminy done against India? He averages 62 against them. Elgar got 4 wickets in one innings and barely did anything in the other 4 innings.

Giving 4 wickets to Elgar in one innings on turners is a lot better than giving 18 wickets to Bishoo in a 3 match series on flat pitches.

Hasan123 · Nov 4, 2016

Sachin136 said:
What has Duminy done against India? He averages 62 against them. Elgar got 4 wickets in one innings and barely did anything in the other 4 innings.

Giving 4 wickets to Elgar in one innings on turners is a lot better than giving 18 wickets to Bishoo in a 3 match series on flat pitches.

Elgar shouldn't be getting 4 wickets vs India.

Well Bishoo is a full time spinner not a part time one.

Point I'm trying to make is neither Pakistan or India are perfect vs spin but India has more flaws than Pakistan does.

Tusker · Nov 5, 2016

Hasan123 said:
I give credit for BCCI for giving there fans what they want a majority of the time. But why can't you just put your ego aside and give us this match?

because it is not for BCCI to decide this. This decision is made by the Indian Govt.

And As soon as people stop getting gunned down they will play.

Tusker · Nov 5, 2016

Hasan123 said:
Elgar shouldn't be getting 4 wickets vs India.

Well Bishoo is a full time spinner not a part time one.

Point I'm trying to make is neither Pakistan or India are perfect vs spin but India has more flaws than Pakistan does.

Well Bishoo got a grand total of 4 wkts in the Series against India 2 months ago.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_wickets_career.html?id=11239;type=series

and took 18 vs Pak
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...most_wickets_career.html?id=11489;type=series

in India he has 7 wkts at an Avg of 62 :))

street cricketer · Nov 5, 2016

Rank turner or anywhere for that matter in Asia, the spinners play a crucial role. They dictate the game and the presence or absence of quality spinners will be the difference between your team winning/losing a game or series.

At the moment, Indian spin attack is superior (Ash/Jaddu/Mishra) to Pakistan's (Yasir/Nawaz/Cobra?). India will play Yasir better (as they do with most leggies) while Pakistan will play Ashwin better (they are pretty strong against offies). It is the 2nd and 3rd spinners who are going to make the difference and India are better in that aspect. So India will have the edge in Asia. There will probably be a lot of draws in the UAE though.

Outside Asia, if the wickets are going to be like the previous Eng-Pak series or the Aus-Ind series, I expect quite a few draws, maybe Pakistan winning the series by the odd game. But in seaming conditions, Pakistan will have the edge by virtue of their bowling attack. Most of their bowlers are swing/seam bowlers who will do well in such conditions while only Bhuvi is a similar bowler for India. So Pakistan will have the advantage in such conditions.

OS_89 · Nov 5, 2016

Yasir is better than Ashwin individually, but India's spin attack as a whole is clearly superior imo. No doubt that the Ashwin/Jaddu/Mishra combo is way better than Yasir/Nawaz/Babar.

street cricketer · Nov 5, 2016

aliasad1998 said:
We'd beat them 3-2 in Asia and 4-1/5-0 outside it

Lol, ain't happening.

Forget India, it's hard to win against West Indies 5-0 in a 5 match series anywhere in the world. Misbah would no a thing or two about that. :srini

marlonbrowndo · Nov 5, 2016

street cricketer said:
Lol, ain't happening.

Forget India, it's hard to win against West Indies 5-0 in a 5 match series anywhere in the world. Misbah would no a thing or two about that.

Shouldve just bolded the 4-1 part and left 5-0 as it is and I could've agreed with you

street cricketer · Nov 5, 2016

aliasad1998 said:
Shouldve just bolded the 4-1 part and left 5-0 as it is and I could've agreed with you

Pakistan aren't ruthless enough of a team to win by that margin. Both their players and captain are largely conservative. I reckon a 2-1 win in favour of Pakistan if they win is probably the likelier outcome.

marlonbrowndo · Nov 5, 2016

street cricketer said:
Pakistan aren't ruthless enough of a team to win by that margin. Both their players and captain are largely conservative. I reckon a 5-0 win in favour of Pakistan if they win is probably the likelier outcome.

fixed

Nil Dhumrojal · Nov 5, 2016

I think in First two match India will have an edge,in the next two Pakistan will have an edge and last one will be exciting if it would be the decider...would be great tournament for sure...and yeah,agreed with the op...only Pak will give the best fight...and also rankings suggest so...would love to enjoy but alas ,unlikely to happen in near future...bcci and ind govt should try to make this happen for the sake of cricket and cric lovers...

sensible-indian-fan · Nov 5, 2016

4-1 and 5-0 outside Asia eh?

Hmm....

Well, let's see what happens when Kohli actually builds a pace attack for us that could make us compete.

marlonbrowndo · Nov 5, 2016

sensible-indian-fan said:
4-1 and 5-0 outside Asia eh?

Hmm....

Well, let's see what happens when Kohli actually builds a pace attack for us that could make us compete.

I changed my mind. 5-0 and 5-0. :ma

street cricketer · Nov 5, 2016

sensible-indian-fan said:
4-1 and 5-0 outside Asia eh?

Hmm....

Well, let's see what happens when Kohli actually builds a pace attack for us that could make us compete.

India have a top 5 that can actually hold its own in any conditions because they are technically very good.

But all that's useless if you don't have good pacers to pick up 20 wickets. Ultimately that's going to be the difference as it has always been. Could've drawn series in NZ and SA if we had semi decent pacers the last time around (could've won in SA in 2010 if not for our trundlers). .Hope somehow Shami, Bhuvi, Ishant and Yadav make the next level. I know it's a pipe dream, but hey, one can always hope. Besides, the phaintaa the Aussie bowlers are getting at the WACA makes me think less awful about our pacers. :misbah

big_gamer007 · Nov 5, 2016

This will be the most fascinating India Pakistan test series ever.. there is no clear cut winner, teams are as evenly matched as they can ever been.. Been ages since we played each other, whoever wins will probably be ranked 1 in tests.. could not be a better time to play but alas we all can wake up and realise it's just a dream which cannot be fulfilled.

AlizeeFan · Nov 5, 2016

On one side you have a team which has 2nd most number of losses (7 lost matches) in Asia since 2013. Australia has lost 9 matches.

On the other hand you have a team which has most number of wins and W/L ratio 7 times higher than team second on the list.

You know which side will win.

AlizeeFan · Nov 5, 2016

On one side you have a team which has 2nd most number of losses (7 lost matches) in Asia since 2013. Australia has lost 9 matches.

On the other hand you have a team which has most number of wins and W/L ratio 7 times higher than team second on the list.

You know which side will win.

Code:

Team 	Span 	Mat 	Won 	Lost 	Tied 	Draw 	W/L 	Ave 	RPO 	Inns 	HS 	LS
India           2013-2016 	17 	14 	1 	0 	2 	14.000 	38.39 	3.43 	29 	572 	112
Pakistan 	2013-2016 	23 	12 	7 	0 	4 	1.714 	41.07 	3.29 	45 	628 	99
Sri Lanka 	2013-2016 	22 	12 	6 	0 	4 	2.000 	36.17 	3.25 	42 	730 	117
Bangladesh 	2013-2016 	16 	4 	4 	0 	8 	1.000 	35.65 	3.29 	30 	638 	203
South Africa 	2013-2015 	10 	2 	4 	0 	4 	0.500 	24.08 	2.47 	16 	517 	79
England 	2015-2016 	5 	1 	3 	0 	1 	0.333 	28.26 	2.82 	10 	598 	156
New Zealand 	2013-2016 	8 	1 	4 	0 	3 	0.250 	32.20 	3.21 	14 	690 	153
West Indies 	2013-2016 	7 	1 	6 	0 	0 	0.166 	24.19 	2.94 	14 	357 	163
Australia 	2013-2016 	9 	0 	9 	0 	0 	0.000 	23.82 	2.77 	18 	408 	106
Zimbabwe 	2014-2014 	3 	0 	3 	0 	0 	0.000 	25.15 	3.08 	6 	374 	114

Tusker · May 4, 2017

shaz619 said:
this is our greatest test team since the inzi/woolmer era and the same team whom you expected to get destroyed in england, they also live out a suitcase and tests are also our strongest format so it is beyond me how you have come to question their mental strength.

If anything, we have seen in recent times that when india have been met with a real challenge they have lacked heart. So am sorry to say that if they are brave enough to ever face us they will be humiliated in a way you'd never be able to imagine, the same way you never expected us to draw level in england or remain unbeaten in the uae. Relish in our greatness brother, it may be a long time before we see a pak team like this again Am tearing up, we are so magnificient mashaallah

shaz619 said:
aww somebody hurt yo feelings? That's what your have to resort to, performances in mickey mouse cricket when you can never test us in the ultimate format

bilal7 said:
we would still beat india 4-1 if such a series ever took place with the one loss being the result of a customary once-in-a-series collapse.

A dead-rubber loss against the windies doesn't change anything. As for the pessimists fearing we have lost our edge; i'm sure we could whitewash australia in australia and these same people would still be predicting death and destruction for pakistan cricket so i wouldn't pay too much attention to them.

bilal7 said:
it's a fact, not an opinion. Pakistanis have better batsmen, pacers and spinners (arguably), fielders and a better captain. All india have is experience playing on rank-turners and the ability to create a pakistani collapse in one of the matches.

bilal7 said:
this series is hardly anything to base your opinions off of. There was nothing in it for pakistan and thus, they got complacent. Windies on the other hand played really well to prove to the world that their is still life in the old king.

Azhar ali and asad shafiq are equal if not better than pujara and kohli. Sarfaraz is much better than any keeper-batsman in india and younis khan is an atg, levels above any india batsman.

I said that our spin attack is arguably better because i hope that this is the end of zulfiqar babar and one of our younger spinners will get a chance during the next series. Depending on how well usama mir/afghar does, pakistan's spin attack can trump india's.

Fielding isn't really a big factor because like you said, there is not much to choose between the two. However, pakistan has better hands in the slips.

aliasad1998 said:
we'd beat them 3-2 in asia and 4-1/5-0 outside it

aliasad1998 said:
i changed my mind. 5-0 and 5-0.

bump

Mamoon · May 4, 2017

Let the excuses flow. India is comfortably better in all three departments.

big_gamer007 · May 4, 2017

Until the series happen we can't be sure however on paper Indian team looks stronger..

Sarfarazian92 · May 4, 2017

Mamoon said:
Let the excuses flow. India is comfortably better in all three departments.

Right now, yes.

When the thread was created, they were still better than us IMO, but not comfortably.

troodon · May 4, 2017

Tusker said:
bump

Whats the point of bumping. It was just some trolling by Shaz and Billal.

Tusker · May 4, 2017

Sarfarazian92 said:
Right now, yes.

When the thread was created, they were still better than us IMO, but not comfortably.

Do you realize that we spanked WI in WI just before this thread was created ? Also 6 months is a short period of time for things to change.

Tusker · May 4, 2017

troodon said:
Whats the point of bumping. It was just some trolling by Shaz and Billal.

Certainly not Bilal ... he firmly believed that India were a joke team yada yada ... :))

)

Sarfarazian92 · May 4, 2017

Tusker said:
Do you realize that we spanked WI in WI just before this thread was created ? Also 6 months is a short period of time for things to change.

I did say Ind were better than us when this thread was created, but not by a mile.

6-8 months is not a short time if you play 10 tests during that time and only win 2. We've been pathetic since the beginning of the WI series in Sept/Oct. Before that we were decent at home, and just drew 2-2 against England away. So you can't say India were better COMFORTABLY in Sept 2016.

shaz619 · May 4, 2017

troodon said:
Whats the point of bumping. It was just some trolling by Shaz and Billal.

Tusker said:
Certainly not Bilal ... he firmly believed that India were a joke team yada yada ... )

When you draw a 4 match Test series in England and remain undefeated at home in Test series for about 7 years in a row then we shall talk :afridi

So,

bleaf27 · May 4, 2017

shaz619 said:
When you draw a 4 match Test series in England and remain undefeated at home in Test series for about 7 years in a row then we shall talk

So,

Should have taken some help from the IPL lads , chased over 200 quite comfortably :babar

shaz619 · May 4, 2017

bleaf27 said:
Should have taken some help from the IPL lads , chased over 200 quite comfortably

We'll take the RCB lads :))

bleaf27 · May 4, 2017

shaz619 said:
We'll take the RCB lads

Don't think Gayle would do you any favors. If I were you , I'd take MI/KKR/DD :yk3

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