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Pakistan's ODI bowling under Mickey Arthur has been downright pathetic

Slog

Slog

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It's one thing to concede 400+ and 350+ totals to a much improved England side and world champions Australia though still not acceptable obviously

But now even depleted West Indies sides will smack us around for fun?

The bowing in one days has been downright pathetic to say the least and keeps getting worse every series
 
Ellipsism said:
Is Mickey Arthur bowling?
Click to expand...

So why is he Even there?

Reversal of test fortunes is not down to him. ODI bowling disaster is not down to him.

He'll never be playing obv so why even have him?

Arthur apologists need to face the reality. We are regressing in most metrics and in the past year our ODI bowling has time and again been taken to the cleaners and there seems to be no solutions being brought forward
 
But but but back when misbah and azhar were captains it was their fault but when sarfraz is captain then its all coaches?

I thiught mr aggresive accumulator handsome was going to change the fortunes of our team
 
Every bowling will regularly concede 300+ in ODIs in this era. It's not our bowling.

It was poor batting as always and poor captaincy.
 
Yeah .
Azhar mehmood will come under fire too.
It was a subpar score for the conditions and the captaincy was poor too .
Micky and sarfraz deserve this for the stunts they have been trying to pull off late.
 
Yes because under Waqar we were blowing teams away at will. Our ODI bowling average from the 2015 WC to the time of his resignation was the SECOND worst in the world and that's including associates.

Arthur didn't ask his bowlers to deliver legside filth and long hops. Credit must be given to Jason Mohammad who played a blistering knock.
 
West Indies' highest successful chase in ODIs. :facepalm: another one for Pak
 
WI would have been 200 all out if Waqar 'straight into the hands of the maxwell' Younis would have been the coach.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pakistan pace bowlers today:<br>23-0-171-3<br>Economy rate of 7.43 runs per over<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WIvPAK?src=hash">#WIvPAK</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/850462059275976705">April 7, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bowlers will quite rightly get criticism, but when Pakistan batted there were 141 dot balls <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WIvPAK?src=hash">#WIvPAK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/850462238674759682">April 7, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Slog said:
It's one thing to concede 400+ and 350+ totals to a much improved England side and world champions Australia though still not acceptable obviously

But now even depleted West Indies sides will smack us around for fun?

The bowing in one days has been downright pathetic to say the least and keeps getting worse every series
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Yup always someone elses fault. When will some of you guys accept that our phasssst bowlers are mediocre & batters are selfish??
 
Again, the issue comes to selection. Why is wahab playing. On the other hand 300 is not a safe score
 
Markhor said:
Yes because under Waqar we were blowing teams away at will. Our ODI bowling average from the 2015 WC to the time of his resignation was the SECOND worst in the world and that's including associates.

Arthur didn't ask his bowlers to deliver legside filth and long hops. Credit must be given to Jason Mohammad who played a blistering knock.
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It's no coincidence that The side coached by Mickey holds record for conceding highest ever total

Weak logic by you here. No coach asks boelers to bowl filth. But when it's clear there's a problem you would expect the coach to do something to address it rather than sit idly by and collect his pay check

Get over your obsession with Waqar. He's gone. Mickeys pathetic tactics cannot be defended this way. Mickey has been around for a year and the team keeps on regressing on most counts. It is under Mickey that in ODIs we have conceded the highest total in history. It is under Mickey that in tests we are currently on our worst ever losing streak
 
Hawkeye said:
Every bowling will regularly concede 300+ in ODIs in this era. It's not our bowling.

It was poor batting as always and poor captaincy.
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i agree with you, those 2 were bigger issues, but bowling should also come under fire consdering wi needed 10 an over at once stage.


They all took it too easy and relaxed. Also Imad's position has to be questioned. Consdering we know Shadab can bat i so no why asghar shouldnt get a go
 
Major said:
But but but back when misbah and azhar were captains it was their fault but when sarfraz is captain then its all coaches?

I thiught mr aggresive accumulator handsome was going to change the fortunes of our team
Click to expand...
keep your buts with you , its his first match
he has proved to be successful in t20s . you can cry with your buts after a year or two of failures
 
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pakistanigoneaussie said:
i agree with you, those 2 were bigger issues, but bowling should also come under fire consdering wi needed 10 an over at once stage.


They all took it too easy and relaxed. Also Imad's position has to be questioned. Consdering we know Shadab can bat i so no why asghar shouldnt get a go
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Captain sets the tone. If the captain thinks it's easy the bowlers think the same
 
I think, today it was more about Pakistan not scoring enough and Pakistani bowlers bottling it at the death.
Given Sarfraz's comments on his fast bowlers "I expect more from them", and his overly dramatic reactions on field ...surely all bowlers would have been stressed - especially because Pakistanis aren't known for being mentally tough. You could see it in the eyes of Amir / Wahab and even some fielders.. Sarfraz just lost his cool.. and not a good sign for Pakistan. This Pakistani team doesn't deserve to be in the WC. And I'm an ardent Pakistani fan.
 
It's funny to see how Pakistani fans are willing to put the blame on everyone except their awful trundlers. What does the coach has to either anything? Lack of common sense or skill perhaps isn't the coaches fault. He can't turn average players into match winners. Scapegoating the coach isn't gonna fix anything.
 
bleaf27 said:
It's funny to see how Pakistani fans are willing to put the blame on everyone except their awful trundlers. What does the coach has to either anything? Lack of common sense or skill perhaps isn't the coaches fault. He can't turn average players into match winners. Scapegoating the coach isn't gonna fix anything.
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It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if a player gets spanked every time he plays (Wahab) maybe he shouldn't be playing...
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
i agree with you, those 2 were bigger issues, but bowling should also come under fire consdering wi needed 10 an over at once stage.


They all took it too easy and relaxed. Also Imad's position has to be questioned. Consdering we know Shadab can bat i so no why asghar shouldnt get a go
Click to expand...

True.

Imad is the golden boy of Mickey Arthur though. He'll never drop him, no matter how poor Imad's been.

Sarfraz also has a thing for seniors and hates giving opportunities to youngsters. Doesn't let Shadab bat, demoted Azam.

sl-fan-of-pak said:
I think, today it was more about Pakistan not scoring enough and Pakistani bowlers bottling it at the death.
Given Sarfraz's comments on his fast bowlers "I expect more from them", and his overly dramatic reactions on field ...surely all bowlers would have been stressed - especially because Pakistanis aren't known for being mentally tough. You could see it in the eyes of Amir / Wahab and even some fielders.. Sarfraz just lost his cool.. and not a good sign for Pakistan. This Pakistani team doesn't deserve to be in the WC. And I'm an ardent Pakistani fan.
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You're very right my friend. We don't deserve to be in WC. Will play qualifiers with associates.
 
Bowling was to blame considering how poor WI's batting is, but that was a 350+ pitch.
 
Slog said:
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if a player gets spanked every time he plays (Wahab) maybe he shouldn't be playing...
Click to expand...

Amir is also the problem..he has done NOTHING of note since his comeback.
 
Hawkeye said:
You're very right my friend. We don't deserve to be in WC. Will play qualifiers with associates.
Click to expand...

Been a fan of Pakistan ever since I started watching cricket. This loss was the most demoralizing one. No coach seems to realize the importance of power hitting and being mentally tough.. I've heard of this psychologist called Max Babri (through pakpassion) ...someone of that caliber needs to travel with these fidgety characters.
 
Slog said:
It's no coincidence that The side coached by Mickey holds record for conceding highest ever total

Weak logic by you here. No coach asks boelers to bowl filth. But when it's clear there's a problem you would expect the coach to do something to address it rather than sit idly by and collect his pay check

Get over your obsession with Waqar. He's gone. Mickeys pathetic tactics cannot be defended this way. Mickey has been around for a year and the team keeps on regressing on most counts. It is under Mickey that in ODIs we have conceded the highest total in history. It is under Mickey that in tests we are currently on our worst ever losing streak
Click to expand...

What pathetic tactics ? If anything he made a mistake with selection, picking Hafeez and Shehzad who delivered two of the most selfish knocks you'll ever see, and ignoring Asghar for Wahab when we could've exploited WI's weakness against spin. Sarfraz was not at his best tactically either.

WI needed 10 RPO at one point but we failed to kill the game off. Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and give credit to the opposition, Jason Mohammad took us apart.

As for regressing in every bowling metric, we averaged 41 at 5.77 RPO with the ball under Waqar's second tenure in ODIs against the major sides (omitting Zimbabwe). Under Arthur we average 40.5 at 5.8 RPO so this dramatic slide you speak of isn't borne out by the facts.

He has given debuts to young bowlers like Hasan Ali and Shadab Khan who are still settling at international level and will have off days like today. He now needs to drop Wahab and let it be known to Amir that he won't be afforded unlimited chances.
 
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Were Pakistan short of some runs yes. But a team defending ten an over for 15 overs against the West Indies should not be losing
 
Pakistani fast bowling is on its knees.

The game has changed, we need bowlers who can move the new ball, not bowlers who can bowl it at 150k gun barrel straight. This obsession with all-out pace needs to stop.

Amir and wahab are not what they're hyped up to be on PP. Hasan is good but at his height the margin for error is so small, that more often than not he's gonna go for runs.

I don't know if we have bowlers in the Asif/hazlewood mould in Pakistan, but if we do we need to find them quick, if not then minnow status awaits us, that's before we even consider the drab, unimaginative and lifeless batting.
 
Markhor said:
What pathetic tactics ? If anything he made a mistake with selection, picking Hafeez and Shehzad who delivered two of the most selfish knocks you'll ever see, and ignoring Asghar for Wahab when we could've exploited WI's weakness against spin. Sarfraz was not at his best tactically either.

WI needed 10 RPO at one point but we failed to kill the game off. Sometimes you have to hold your hands up and give credit to the opposition, Jason Mohammad took us apart.

As for regressing in every bowling metric, we averaged 41 at 5.77 RPO with the ball under Waqar's second tenure in ODIs against the major sides (omitting Zimbabwe). Under Arthur we average 40.5 at 5.8 RPO so this dramatic slide you speak of isn't borne out by the facts.

He has given debuts to young bowlers like Hasan Ali and Shadab Khan who are still settling at international level and will have off days like today. He now needs to drop Wahab and let it be known to Amir that he won't be afforded unlimited chances.
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I agree with the last part pakistan were defending ten an over for the last 15 overs and quite a few of those were bowled by wahab and aamir
 
First off, if this isn't enough for Wahab to be dropped, I don't know what will. Secondly, I have no idea what happened today, it's just the lack of a yorker, and also too much use of part time bowlers. At the end of the day though, the most blame has to come to the bowlers themselves. Sarfraz should've kept quiet behind the stumps but when the bowlers are bowling garbage on a good length in the 45th over what do you expect?
 
Lost a great amount of respect for Mickey after he allowed Hafeez's ego to bat ahead of Babar.
 
The issue is apart from these three the only other pacer in the squad is Junaid, and we all know even he is no better than Wahab or Hasan. Pace bowling stocks are at an all time low for us at the moment.
 
300 is a normal score now and most teams will score it. Pakistan were 30-40 runs short.
 
Pakistan's bowling has been mediocre ever since the 2 new ball rule came into effect. The only reason your bowling was competitive was because of them chuckers :ajmal :hafeez The moment they were banned, the bowling came apart completely.
 
Whenever there is a bowler comes into the scene you ask the first question "what speed"? All you are obsessed with pace and pace and pace but you always forget that all you need an effective bowler than pacy bowler. We are not obsessed with pace but still we are doing fine because we have some effective bowlers. You should have to get rid of obsession with pace first and find some effective bowlers for all conditions.
 
Junaid Khan bowled well in AUS now dropped against WI. Hasan Ali forced to take the new ball because of wahab in the side. Babar thought to be the permanent no.3 not sure about the love for hafeez to come in and just snatch that spot from babar again and again. Inconsistency at its best when it comes to pak in one way or the other. Shadab a better batsman above imad but he is batting below wahab. Pak should get rid of this captains policy of keeping their friends first ahead of deserving players if not then they continue to go low and further. down the rankings. They select usman and didn't get a game but tanvir gets to play 3 games until he gets thrashed. No same will happen to asghar. In England in the final ODI they played babar , Malik , Sarfraz at 3,4,5 and chased 300+ score after hafeez comes in that combo is abandoned never tried again. Even if they taste success they continue showcause their inconsistent selection policies. This team deserve to play the qualifiers for 2019 CWC.
 
We bowled fantastic today and anyone who disagrees is clueless.

Cricket has changed and wicket takers dont exist- this is a changing evolution of the sport due to FLAT wickets and new white balls which refuse to move. This is the same world now where Bangladesh can score 300 against the number 1 team in the world with ease yet continue to get DRUBBED. You will not see teams run through teams, and until our dumb management realise that we will continue to lose.

You win games now by containing with the ball, and not attacking. You take wickets by building pressure and bowling variations causing batters to make an error, not bowls that swing in and take off stump.

This was an average score by India, and an Aussie or England team would have chased it with pure ease. Hassan Ali last over excluded bowled PHENOMENALLY. Kohli gave him an acknowledgement as he recognised it, and Hassan was genuinely world class for us. Shadab also bowled superbly- not one four, and his few half trackers aside looked THE REAL DEAL. Imad wasim bowled fantastic too and did his role (his role is not to bowl the last over) and Mohammad Amir was superb for us.

Take out Wahab Riaz contribution and this was a VERY UNDER PAR score. Its our mental block and failure to innovate with the game and its requirements that is costing us.
 
wasimjunior said:
We bowled fantastic today and anyone who disagrees is clueless.

Cricket has changed and wicket takers dont exist- this is a changing evolution of the sport due to FLAT wickets and new white balls which refuse to move. This is the same world now where Bangladesh can score 300 against the number 1 team in the world with ease yet continue to get DRUBBED. You will not see teams run through teams, and until our dumb management realise that we will continue to lose.

You win games now by containing with the ball, and not attacking. You take wickets by building pressure and bowling variations causing batters to make an error, not bowls that swing in and take off stump.

This was an average score by India, and an Aussie or England team would have chased it with pure ease. Hassan Ali last over excluded bowled PHENOMENALLY. Kohli gave him an acknowledgement as he recognised it, and Hassan was genuinely world class for us. Shadab also bowled superbly- not one four, and his few half trackers aside looked THE REAL DEAL. Imad wasim bowled fantastic too and did his role (his role is not to bowl the last over) and Mohammad Amir was superb for us.

Take out Wahab Riaz contribution and this was a VERY UNDER PAR score. Its our mental block and failure to innovate with the game and its requirements that is costing us.
Click to expand...

The disintegration at the end was very poor

72 in 4 overs

But yes for first 35-40 overs bowlers did ok to contain (apart from Wahab) however in the match thread I had warned those celebrating that restricting them to 5-5.5 an over till 30 overs means nothing when they have 8 wickets in hand and a lower middle order which can go ballistic
 
Fast bowler performance has clearly gone down since Waqar and Mohd. Akram left.

No one can swing the ball, they aren't bowling stump and they are afraid to get hit.

We need a new bowling coach
 
Teams like England, Australia and even SA and NZ would chase this total down or get real close against India on this pitch. So yes in spite of the fact that wheels came off in the last 5 overs, it was still manageable. The lack of resources cannot be blamed on Mickey. He can't produce new bowlers out of thin air.
 
161 said:
Fast bowler performance has clearly gone down since Waqar and Mohd. Akram left.

No one can swing the ball, they aren't bowling stump and they are afraid to get hit.

We need a new bowling coach
Click to expand...

Even Indian bowlers or any bowler in the tournament didn't swing the ball
 
Strange thread. While their bowling was poor, the elephant in the room is quite obviously their batting and the fact they're 20 years behind all the other top sides when it comes to their batting approach.

Basically team batting first against them only needs to get above 280 and they'll win 99 times out of 100.

They have no idea how to play modern one day cricket.
 
161 said:
Fast bowler performance has clearly gone down since Waqar and Mohd. Akram left.

No one can swing the ball, they aren't bowling stump and they are afraid to get hit.

We need a new bowling coach
Click to expand...

And how many Indians swung the ball? These pitches are next level roads , the white ball is made slightly differently and doesn't move and the 2 new ball rule finishes reverse swing.

Hassan Ali was simply superb today. We lost the plot at the end which was poor but first 40 overs this was our game to lose.

The target was par even then, and it was our refusal to run singles that cost us- mainly thanks to Hafeez.

Take out Hafeez and Wahab's performance and you have a totally different game. Genuinely pleased with how we played today and think Haris Sohail and Junaid/Fahim coming in will make us better. Can easily beat South Africa
 
Mamoon said:
Teams like England, Australia and even SA and NZ would chase this total down or get real close against India on this pitch. So yes in spite of the fact that wheels came off in the last 5 overs, it was still manageable. The lack of resources cannot be blamed on Mickey. He can't produce new bowlers out of thin air.
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It wasn't that good. Even against the dumb Wahab and Imad, Kohli had to put up his whole effort to clear the boundary in last few overs. He was jumping with joy in every single boundary.
 
This is not all the fault of Micky but mostly of Shehryar Khan and the corrupt Chri Sarkar. As long as these people run our cricket Pakistan will always fail and should. We know these people have vested interests in this match.
 
Give Arthur 4/5 GENUINE U23 pacers with proper spirit & physique for a year & see what he can do.

At current status Sameen or Ehtesham'll make PAK team in 2023, at 27-29, like Abbas is also 27 now.
 
MenInG said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bowlers will quite rightly get criticism, but when Pakistan batted there were 141 dot balls <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WIvPAK?src=hash">#WIvPAK</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/850462238674759682">April 7, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Some things never change
 
It's not Mickeys fault. You can only teach so much and the rest it up to the bowler
 
Pakistan has destroyed the bowlers by not giving them chances at right time.

fast bowlers need to be introduced early , Pakistan is doing opposite.

Bowlers like tabish and Sadaf never got chances. Abdur rauf , talha etc were benched . This way you cannot develop fast bowlers.
 
Wasn't too bad today either.

Batsmen nearly threw it away.
 
Great bowling.

Importantly thereseems to be a plan at work
 
Slog said:
Great bowling.

Importantly thereseems to be a plan at work
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Very fickle. Only a couple months ago you were berating the bowling :afridi

Think what we need is consistency with the same bowling lineup with 1 change max per game. Everyone seems to be on song when it really matters, and that's what is most important.
 
Wondering what is the consensus now? coz I thought barring Wahab and may be Imad, this Pak bowling line up has been one of the best in the tournament.
 
Mickey shutting up his critics in style! What a legend. I am of the opinion if he stays on; Pakistan will go on to achieve similar results in the World Cup.
 
Predictions for WC

I thought we were ok today
 
While it's true the coaches need to give them guidance and tips , but players need to take responsibility for their lack of performances and where needed spend extra time practising to overcome their flaws and become more proficient in their skills. You only have to look at how inconsistent these bowlers have been over the last couple of months now in England , no excuses this time about limited preparation time in English conditions or whatever - but these bowlers can not bowl to a consistent line and length, they are giving freebies and 'hit me' balls guaranteed every over, are they really that poor ??

No matter how poor you are, if you are serious enough and identify your not getting the line and length correct - you should be spending time out there and bowling to a single stump if needed, practising until you get things right and show some improvement.

That's the worrying thing - you are not seeing any visible improvement in their bowling performances , they just go through the motions, deliver a pile of rubbish, go home , come into the next game and do the same and seem to think they can carry on like this such is their commitment to their profession as sportsmen.

Either that or they are practising and get it all right in the nets, but it all goes wrong in the middle because of the pressure that they simply can't cope with ? ?

In both cases it means they are NOT GOOD ENOUGH - simple, drop them and move on to the next available options , sooner or later you will find someone with a bit of potential.
 
Bowling is pathetic since Ajmal/Hafeez got banned in former days teams used to attack others since it was problematic to score against Ajmal, Hafeez, and Afridi and now it seems like only Aamir pose any threat whatsoever.
 
I think most of the bowlers are bowling the same way if not better than they did in CT 2017, the drastic difference has been Hasan Ali in the middle overs who from a Man of the Tournament performance has turned into one of the worst bowlers in the World Cup. This has badly damaged Pakistan.
 
every single coach of pakistan was hated by pak fans. coach wont play for team, he can only guide through. looks like no coach in the world can make pak fans happy
 
So turns out that the only bowler doing well for Pakistan (Mohammad Amir) is getting coaching and discussing his game with a coach who is outside of Mickey arthurs set up
 
Slog said:
So turns out that the only bowler doing well for Pakistan (Mohammad Amir) is getting coaching and discussing his game with a coach who is outside of Mickey arthurs set up
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And that coach is? your source?
 
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