Pakistan's pace factory's revival after almost a decade

[Titan24]

Those were batsmen - which would mean they actually made bowlers work harder. its generally accepted batsmen averages get better with time if they are picked too young. But for bowlers same is not true and are picked when their stats are actually quit good in domestic cricket.

Amongst bowlers the biggest example is of Dale Steyn (Probably the best test bowler of the era). Started with northerns province of SA and didn have any impact and was pretty poor until the start of next season where he improved to an extent but still at that time his average was pretty mediocre but he was selected for tests vs Eng and couldnt do much in the 3 tests he played. Then even in the county championship he averaged 59 for his 14 wickets. After that he gace decent performances for Titans and was picked for SA again.

So point being SA saw potential in him even when he couldnt transfer anything close to that even at domestic level.

 

[Titan24]

[MENTION=142176]Pakhs[/MENTION] And even still if you will exclude test record of Steyn his Domestic average will turn out to be pretty mediocre.

 

[Pakhs]

Amongst bowlers the biggest example is of Dale Steyn (Probably the best test bowler of the era). Started with northerns province of SA and didn have any impact and was pretty poor until the start of next season where he improved to an extent but still at that time his average was pretty mediocre but he was selected for tests vs Eng and couldnt do much in the 3 tests he played. Then even in the county championship he averaged 59 for his 14 wickets. After that he gace decent performances for Titans and was picked for SA again.

So point being SA saw potential in him even when he couldnt transfer anything close to that even at domestic level.

[MENTION=142176]Pakhs[/MENTION] And even still if you will exclude test record of Steyn his Domestic average will turn out to be pretty mediocre.

Steyn was something else and was picked very raw but was even dropped after a couple of games but we all knew once see what he may end up doing. Musa doesn't even have the pace to match Steyn forget about the height. Musa should really be allowed to play a few season in domestic and have a good record against our below average first class batsmen.

 

[Titan24]

Steyn was something else and was picked very raw but was even dropped after a couple of games but we all knew once see what he may end up doing. Musa doesn't even have the pace to match Steyn forget about the height. Musa should really be allowed to play a few season in domestic and have a good record against our below average first class batsmen.

No denying Steyn turned out to be a different beast but he wasnt the bowler we are used to seeing when he started. His action and his use of crease wasnt the same along with many other things.

I agree ideally bowlers should play couple of seasons in domestic cricket but selecting them was the need of the hour with no alternatives with similar pace. Musa has played 7 FC matches by now and not to forget Lungi Ngidi (a recent example) also played just 11 and I don’t remember anybody having issues with his selection, yes obviously he started better in FC but Musa did the same last year but he had to go through a transitional FC setup this year.

 

[Pakhs]

No denying Steyn turned out to be a different beast but he wasnt the bowler we are used to seeing when he started. His action and his use of crease wasnt the same along with many other things.

I agree ideally bowlers should play couple of seasons in domestic cricket but selecting them was the need of the hour with no alternatives with similar pace. Musa has played 7 FC matches by now and not to forget Lungi Ngidi (a recent example) also played just 11 and I don’t remember anybody having issues with his selection, yes obviously he started better in FC but Musa did the same last year but he had to go through a transitional FC setup this year.

I just think he stats are too poor this season to be picked - NS is okay I can accept. Another thing is I am not convinced you can be this small and be and out and out fast bowler.

 

[Danyaalr01]

It was best to get Naseem into the squad ASAP. Best to keep him away from those awful bowling partners he has at CP (Waqas Maqsood and Faheem Ashraf), and all those toxic people like Salman Butt and the Akmals. We also don't want someone runing his action.

 

[Danyaalr01]

I just think he stats are too poor this season to be picked - NS is okay I can accept. Another thing is I am not convinced you can be this small and be and out and out fast bowler.

I agree, I would've liked to see Sameen instead. He has really good FC stats after about 20 matches and is suitable to Australian conditions.

Musa needs a season to refine himself.

 

[Shazzam]

This revival could easily decline when Australians shred through our bowling greats in this series.

 

[Titan24]

This revival could easily decline when Australians shred through our bowling greats in this series.

What being scored for runs by Australia has anything to do with the fact 4-5 good prospects at our hand?

 

[jnaveen1980]

Not seen much of others. But Shaheen will go places. He is definitely an above average pace prospect.

 

[shah_1]

Lol Sohail Khan at one time was bowling over 140s . Anwar Ali was suppose to be the next big thing. Junaid Khan was to become next magical left hander

Don't make these threads unless they start performing at international level for at least 2 to 3 years

 

[Titan24]

Lol Sohail Khan at one time was bowling over 140s . Anwar Ali was suppose to be the next big thing. Junaid Khan was to become next magical left hander

Don't make these threads unless they start performing at international level for at least 2 to 3 years

Lol! Are you seriously comparing Shaheen Shah and Naseem Shah and co with Sohail Khan or Anwer Ali.

Sohail and Anwer werent selected for Pakistan at 17 and 19 years of age (And there is a reason for that, they werent prodigies) and they clearly werent the next big things. You can watch Sohail's debut series, he may be touched 140 kph on few rare deliveries. One U19 performance and couple of good seasons doesnt mean anything. Junaid was a descent prospect and actually did well for Pakistan before getting injury issues. However, none of them were rated as the next big thing (Except the hype Anwer got with one U19 spell) especially by the coaches and people who know the art of bowling like we saw with Asif, Amir and now few of these guys.

There was no time in the last decade where we had 4-5 teenage bowlers with good skills and pacer, if there was I am all ears. There were almost no products and now we have got few at our hand, nobody can hold what the future holds for them but Pak cricket in terms of pace bowling talent is much better than it was in the last decade or so (Post Asif and Amir incident).

 

[Shazzam]

What being scored for runs by Australia has anything to do with the fact 4-5 good prospects at our hand?

I will judge these guys once I see some results in international cricket. Fast as they maybe what matters is what you do on the field. What ever happens to them in the next four years will determine if they were indeed the revival of our pace factory.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Chances are we are going to lose badly if not embarrassingly. Better to select guys who can atleast bowl quick and rattle the Australians rather than 130 kph "experienced" seamers like Rahat Ali who will do absolutely nothing. Misbah should have gone all out and selected Hasnain aswell in place of Musa who is probably not as quick and refined as the others

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I think only one of musa or Naseem will play in a test.

Abbas
Shaheen
Yasir
?????

I think personally musa has the right length to be successful against the Aussies

Abbas gives you length. Shaheen can give both pace and length if he bowls well. Nasim Shah with his raw pace would be a better fit

 

[ManFan]

Won’t change a thing.

Pakistan cricket and society in terminal decline.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

I don't think that Shaheen is test match ready now, he will only play if he performs in the 2day and 3 day matches and not just perform but also to sustain pace while bowling longer spells.

 

[Titan24]

Chances are we are going to lose badly if not embarrassingly. Better to select guys who can atleast bowl quick and rattle the Australians rather than 130 kph "experienced" seamers like Rahat Ali who will do absolutely nothing. Misbah should have gone all out and selected Hasnain aswell in place of Musa who is probably not as quick and refined as the others

Exactly, loosing wont be unexpected but its better to atleast try something new which we havent done for quite a few tours to Aus.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Lol! Are you seriously comparing Shaheen Shah and Naseem Shah and co with Sohail Khan or Anwer Ali.

Sohail and Anwer werent selected for Pakistan at 17 and 19 years of age (And there is a reason for that, they werent prodigies) and they clearly werent the next big things. You can watch Sohail's debut series, he may be touched 140 kph on few rare deliveries. One U19 performance and couple of good seasons doesnt mean anything. Junaid was a descent prospect and actually did well for Pakistan before getting injury issues. However, none of them were rated as the next big thing (Except the hype Anwer got with one U19 spell) especially by the coaches and people who know the art of bowling like we saw with Asif, Amir and now few of these guys.

There was no time in the last decade where we had 4-5 teenage bowlers with good skills and pacer, if there was I am all ears. There were almost no products and now we have got few at our hand, nobody can hold what the future holds for them but Pak cricket in terms of pace bowling talent is much better than it was in the last decade or so (Post Asif and Amir incident).

credit goes to PSL. good foundation was laid. Great platform for young kids to develop even if they hail from a poor family.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

credit goes to PSL. good foundation was laid. Great platform for young kids to develop even if they hail from a poor family.

PSL gives the youngsters a stage to shine but ultimately most of them made their mark through U-19 cricket. Great talent always comes through PSL or no PSL.

 

[Danyaalr01]

PSL gives the youngsters a stage to shine but ultimately most of them made their mark through U-19 cricket. Great talent always comes through PSL or no PSL.

Exactly. Shaheen came through U19, Hasnain came through U19, Sameen cace through U19. Umer Khan came through U19. The fact that PSL performances were being used to bring these guys into the team just shows how poor the selection panel was. They never looked at U19, first class or any domestic.

 

[tyron_woodley]

PSL gives the youngsters a stage to shine but ultimately most of them made their mark through U-19 cricket. Great talent always comes through PSL or no PSL.

yes that's true.
I am so excited to see these young guns bowl. Hope they take the Aussies heads clean off.
batting is concerning but with babar, haris, imam and rizwan there is good solid depth. shan masood too. I hate that unpredictable tag though. Pakistan are inconsistent yes but they always step up for big games.

I like how musa, naseem and sameen stated that they want to play test cricket. These boys mentioned how important test cricket is as it's the truest format of the game and the most difficult.

 

[Majid Khan]

Ok it’s easy to be unfair on judging these teenagers playing against Aus in Australia , but seriously does anyone see real fast bowling potential and talent in the likes of Shaheen, Hasnain, Naseem, Musa ?

Does anyone see a pace bowler there with the potential to rip out top orders and consistently take 5-wicket hauls against anyone other than Kenya’s Prime Minister XI? Not sure I do,

True , fast bowlers of the calibre of Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, come rarely but since those legends have gone only Mohammed Sami (some glimpses earlier on), Mohammed Asif and Mohammed Amir (pre spot fixing) have shown any real potential and skills to run through batting line ups.

Otherwise I don’t see much difference in these kids now compared to Faheem Ashraf or Bilawal Bhatti in terms of calibre.

Rana Naveed looked lethal in comparison, and that’s saying something

 

[AFM]

Ok it’s easy to be unfair on judging these teenagers playing against Aus in Australia , but seriously does anyone see real fast bowling potential and talent in the likes of Shaheen, Hasnain, Naseem, Musa ?

Does anyone see a pace bowler there with the potential to rip out top orders and take 5-wicket hauls against anyone other than Kenya’s Prime Minister XI? Not sure I do,

True , fast bowlers of the calibre of Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib, come rarely but since those legends have gone only Mohammed Sami (some glimpses earlier on), Mohammed Asif and Mohammed Amir (pre spot fixing) have shown any real potential and skills to run through batting line ups.

Otherwise I don’t see much difference in these kids now compared to Faheem Ashraf or Bilawal Bhatti in terms of calibre.

Rana Naveed looked lethal in comparison, and that’s saying something

Afridi and Naseem do have potential.

Hasnain I think is overrated here massively. Musa does not belong at this level and I don't think he ever will. It's criminal that he got selected and Misbah should get the sack for his selection alone.

 

[ZamanFan]

Sick of this stupidity and **.

We saw in Australiaseries how pace was bashed to all corners of the park.
Your pace does'nt mean much when you can't control where you are bowling and hit length.

Pak bowlers first need to correct their lengths or else its a waste

 

[Captain caveman]

Afridi and Naseem do have potential.

Hasnain I think is overrated here massively. Musa does not belong at this level and I don't think he ever will. It's criminal that he got selected and Misbah should get the sack for his selection alone.

Agree with nearly everything you say apart from hasnain, he will be a good bowler in a couple of years time, just be patient.

 

[Xoib]

Shaheen and Naseem will be very good inshallah I am confident that Shaheen will be a top pacer after this series Naseem I have to see more to.make judgement for Musa this should be his final test

 

[ZamanFan]

Not just length but line too
You also need to be able to bowl seam, cutters and be able to swing the ball both ways in swing conditions.
And of course pace is important.

You got alot to learn kid!

HAhaha what are swing conditions

as I said leave technical stuff to others, you go back to bring Akmal back and hate Sarfaraz posts.

If have time, google drop-in pitches and Kookaburra bowl [standard used in international matches] and the SEAM and SWING that can be generated off this bowl, you'll learn something new.

 

[Markhor]

It's all hype and no substance. Pakistan has lost the ability to produce elite level players barring rare exceptions.

Our promising youngsters generally have a good first 18 months before falling apart.

 

[Captain caveman]

HAhaha what are swing conditions

as I said leave technical stuff to others, you go back to bring Akmal back and hate Sarfaraz posts.

If have time, google drop-in pitches and Kookaburra bowl [standard used in international matches] and the SEAM and SWING that can be generated off this bowl, you'll learn something new.

So line doesnt matter in drop in pitches?
Seam doesn"t matter in drop in pitches?
Pink kookaburra ball doesn't swing in the first 20 overs or in twilight ?
Every pitch is a drop in pitch?
Every test is played with a kookaburra ball?

Kid theres so much you need to learn about cricket!

 

[ethan hunt]

Lol how can people not see potential in naseem ??
He is the biggest bowling talent from Pak since a young Amir.

 

[barah_admi]

Lol how can people not see potential in naseem ??
He is the biggest bowling talent from Pak since a young Amir.

There is potential but you also have to understand what the word means. It does not mean that he goes from a handful of FC matches into an international TEST debut against Australia, in Australia.

The way the team has lost and the way he has been discarded will end up doing more harm than good. This is what the 1% of us on here with some sense and understanding of cricket were warning against.

 

[Xoib]

Lol how can people not see potential in naseem ??
He is the biggest bowling talent from Pak since a young Amir.

He is the only bowler on this tour who looked like getting Warner out and did actually twice

 

[Xoib]

There is potential but you also have to understand what the word means. It does not mean that he goes from a handful of FC matches into an international TEST debut against Australia, in Australia.

The way the team has lost and the way he has been discarded will end up doing more harm than good. This is what the 1% of us on here with some sense and understanding of cricket were warning against.

Yes Misbah and thick tank is stupid but I believe his dropping was more to his fitness even they cannot be so stupid to drop one of the better performers of the first test

 

[ethan hunt]

There is potential but you also have to understand what the word means. It does not mean that he goes from a handful of FC matches into an international TEST debut against Australia, in Australia.

The way the team has lost and the way he has been discarded will end up doing more harm than good. This is what the 1% of us on here with some sense and understanding of cricket were warning against.

Why has he been discarded in the first place ?? He is clearly a level above the others in that squad

 

[Captain caveman]

Lol how can people not see potential in naseem ??
He is the biggest bowling talent from Pak since a young Amir.

All the commies agree that if naseem stays fit and healthy, he will be a superstar!

 

[ethan hunt]

He is the only bowler on this tour who looked like getting Warner out and did actually twice

Even Burns struggled against him.
I dont go by figures for someone playing for the first time. He is clearly special.
He has both pace and a good wrist position which should ensure long term success.
Thankfully the poor coaching at the Nca hasnt got to him.

 

[shah_1]

Lol Sohail Khan at one time was bowling over 140s . Anwar Ali was suppose to be the next big thing. Junaid Khan was to become next magical left hander

Don't make these threads unless they start performing at international level for at least 2 to 3 years

 

[Bewal Express]

It's all hype and no substance. Pakistan has lost the ability to produce elite level players barring rare exceptions.

Our promising youngsters generally have a good first 18 months before falling apart.

That's because they think they have made it and want to enjoy their money.

 

[Bewal Express]

Naseem will be good if he stays fit, Hasnain offers nothing, Musa is too small with a poor seam, and Afridi doesn't convince me because he doesn't move the ball into the right handers. If You compare the skill levels of these guys compared to say the Ind or Aus pacers and we are oceans apart.

 

[Saj]

It's going to take 3 or 4 years before Naseem, Hasnain and Shaheen will start to show their worth.

That's why I said in another thread we are asking a future generation to perform ahead of their time due to bad planning etc.

 

[ethan hunt]

Naseem will be good if he stays fit, Hasnain offers nothing, Musa is too small with a poor seam, and Afridi doesn't convince me because he doesn't move the ball into the right handers. If You compare the skill levels of these guys compared to say the Ind or Aus pacers and we are oceans apart.

Those guys improved with good coaching. NCA is a complete failure here.
Look at hasnain for example.
A tall. strong bloke who naturally bowls around 150 kph. Been in the age group scene yet his seam position is worse than street cricketers. Thats the failure of the system. U19 cricketers of other countries all have sound basics.
Naseem will be a star.

 

[Titan24]

If anybody was expecting Naseem and Shaheen to rip through Aus in Aus their expectations were unrealistic. Waqar Avg 40 plus in Aus while Akhtar averaged around 47 and in addition to that other good prospects in Amir and Asif also struggled big time.

Actually Shaheen at this age has bowled better than most our pacers who have played in Aus while Naseem looked the 2nd best and was ahead of everyone else was a big margin.

Its after a long time we have two pacers with a lot of potential in Shaheen and Naseem. Aus is the last place where you judge a young pacer as I dont remember many pacers playing their 3rd and 1st match at the start of the tour let alone teenagers. If any pacer did that, I am all ears.

We have the bowlers just need to keep them and invest in them and within 2-4 years Naseem and Shaheen can be two of the top bowers we have produced supported by others around them. With now 3 formats of cricket and T20 leagues their workload and fitness will be the only obstacle in their way to a prosperous career.

 

[Titan24]

Those guys improved with good coaching. NCA is a complete failure here.
Look at hasnain for example.
A tall. strong bloke who naturally bowls around 150 kph. Been in the age group scene yet his seam position is worse than street cricketers. Thats the failure of the system. U19 cricketers of other countries all have sound basics.
Naseem will be a star.

Hasnain’s seam position was looking much better than before in emerging asia cup and looked more fit and effective as well. Whoever has worked with him in last couple of months, maybe NCA or emerging team’s bowling coach Rao Iftikhar Anjum, did a pretty decent job.

 

[Hawkeye]

If anybody was expecting Naseem and Shaheen to rip through Aus in Aus their expectations were unrealistic. Waqar Avg 40 plus in Aus while Akhtar averaged around 47 and in addition to that other good prospects in Amir and Asif also struggled big time.

Actually Shaheen at this age has bowled better than most our pacers who have played in Aus while Naseem looked the 2nd best and was ahead of everyone else was a big margin.

Its after a long time we have two pacers with a lot of potential in Shaheen and Naseem. Aus is the last place where you judge a young pacer as I dont remember many pacers playing their 3rd and 1st match at the start of the tour let alone teenagers. If any pacer did that, I am all ears.

We have the bowlers just need to keep them and invest in them and within 2-4 years Naseem and Shaheen can be two of the top bowers we have produced supported by others around them. With now 3 formats of cricket and T20 leagues their workload and fitness will be the only obstacle in their way to a prosperous career.

Yep.

We're on the right path and building a team. Don't take PPers seriously.

This is the same lot who will throw a tantrum that X coach didn't select or build young players. But the ignorants don't know that youngsters don't perform from their first match.

 

[Abid Z]

He is the only bowler on this tour who looked like getting Warner out and did actually twice

Lmao. After warner smacked a big hundred in no time at all. Get real, this is test cricket there is no place to hide for a teenage wayward fast bowler. First he has to learn control then focus on challenging the batsmen. He can challenge a batsman with speed,guile, swing or seam but without control he’s better off finishing his schooling and practicing in evenings.

Our bowling is tripe. It’s the worst fast bowling in the world. The best bowler by far is shaheen but even he needs to be more consistent.

 

[Bewal Express]

It's going to take 3 or 4 years before Naseem, Hasnain and Shaheen will start to show their worth.

That's why I said in another thread we are asking a future generation to perform ahead of their time due to bad planning etc.

But as we have seen before the variable not mentioned is the intelligence of the players to utilise their talent. Asif and Shoaib are the 2 best examples in the last 2 decades.

 

[Down2Earth]

If pace revival means Musa khan then God help us all

 

[Saj]

But as we have seen before the variable not mentioned is the intelligence of the players to utilise their talent. Asif and Shoaib are the 2 best examples in the last 2 decades.

Yes, of course.

My comment was made with the assumption that they stay on the straight path.

 

[Bewal Express]

Those guys improved with good coaching. NCA is a complete failure here.
Look at hasnain for example.
A tall. strong bloke who naturally bowls around 150 kph. Been in the age group scene yet his seam position is worse than street cricketers. Thats the failure of the system. U19 cricketers of other countries all have sound basics.
Naseem will be a star.

Talented Bowlers improve because they want to improve through hard yards in the nets, they then play against good players on good wickets. Coaching is overrated at that level, I remember numerous threads on how bad Azhar was as a bowling coach, and his replacement Waqar has made no difference, why? Its because people are looking at it from the wrong angle.

 

[Xoib]

Lmao. After warner smacked a big hundred in no time at all. Get real, this is test cricket there is no place to hide for a teenage wayward fast bowler. First he has to learn control then focus on challenging the batsmen. He can challenge a batsman with speed,guile, swing or seam but without control he’s better off finishing his schooling and practicing in evenings.

Our bowling is tripe. It’s the worst fast bowling in the world. The best bowler by far is shaheen but even he needs to be more consistent.

He got him for 50 odd but it was a no ball other have struggled to get him even at 300 and Nasim was anything buy a scatter gun only in one spell end of the day he was cramping he got some tap otherwise he threatened in each spell.
Its ridiculous how Naseem is being lumped with Musa who is horrible

 

[Bewal Express]

Yes, of course.

My comment was made with the assumption that they stay on the straight path.

Sadly its the least mentioned variable.

 

[Markhor]

I've heard this mantra of "give them 2 to 4 years and these youngsters will be top players" for the last 20 years.

The rebuilding and waiting and seeing is just another excuse for our continuing descent into mediocrity. It's about time we accepted we are the brown West Indies (though I'd take their pacers over ours in a heartbeat).

 

[Bewal Express]

Hasnain’s seam position was looking much better than before in emerging asia cup and looked more fit and effective as well. Whoever has worked with him in last couple of months, maybe NCA or emerging team’s bowling coach Rao Iftikhar Anjum, did a pretty decent job.

Hasnains seam position is fixable, but I don't see him having the intelligence or desire to fix it. I bet my last rupee that he doesn't even know that he has a poor seam.

 

[Titan24]

Hasnains seam position is fixable, but I don't see him having the intelligence or desire to fix it. I bet my last rupee that he doesn't even know that he has a poor seam.

Looked a lot more leaner and fitter in the emerging asia cup which is a good sign and hopefully how continues to work hard as I agree without hunger you cant survive in today’s cricket era. However, we need to give these young pacers a bit of time.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Apart from Shaheen are far from ready. Even he has noball issues. Naseem has serious noball problems. He relies purely on pace now. He is far from ready too. Even Shaheen is not fully ready. But he has the tools. It will take a couple of years for him to fine tune his skills to become a good bowlers. Rest are mhe.

 

[babajee]

Don't clump Musa with Shaheen, Naseem and Hasnain.

 

[Titan24]

If pace revival means Musa khan then God help us all

Naseem and Shaheen will be they keys while other will be support bowlers around them which are really important in current era of cricket with 3 formats of cricket. Musa definitely needs a lot of work and his selection was arguable considering his FC stats at this point of time but again I dont remember any pacer playing his 1st test in Aus and leaving a lasting impression.

Australia is probably a toughest place for bowler to debut.

 

[Bewal Express]

Looked a lot more leaner and fitter in the emerging asia cup which is a good sign and hopefully how continues to work hard as I agree without hunger you cant survive in today’s cricket era. However, we need to give these young pacers a bit of time.

We will give them a decade, they will play, they will be dropped, they will be brought back and then hated on here for being too old. The one thing very few will do is to work hard and improve.

 

[Titan24]

I've heard this mantra of "give them 2 to 4 years and these youngsters will be top players" for the last 20 years.

The rebuilding and waiting and seeing is just another excuse for our continuing descent into mediocrity. It's about time we accepted we are the brown West Indies (though I'd take their pacers over ours in a heartbeat).

When exactly was the last time we had 4-5 teenage pacers with decent talent? Probably in 90s? Also when was the last time any pacer debuting in Aus or playing his 3rd 4th match ripped through them?

We are too early to rate players and too early to strike them off as well. A team only needs 2 good pacers showing the hunger and putting their hands up to set the bowling department for the decade.

 

[Bewal Express]

Naseem and Shaheen will be they keys while other will be support bowlers around them which are really important in current era of cricket with 3 formats of cricket. Musa definitely needs a lot of work and his selection was arguable considering his FC stats at this point of time but again I dont remember any pacer playing his 1st test in Aus and leaving a lasting impression.

Australia is probably a toughest place for bowler to debut.

As I have said many times on here Afridi has a seam that doesn't move the ball back into right handers and if he doesn't fix it, he will be go nowhere. And as we have already discovered, very few ever get this right.

 

[dildilpak]

First of all, however talented one might be PCB has no business debuting purported 16/18 year olds in tests - hardly any country in the world follows this model these days. We have gone past the time when raw teens were supposed to learn ‘on the job’ - in this modern tri-format cricket if you are not a finished product from day one, you will be brutally exposed & found out even before you cut your teeth.

Second, i can’t understand where PCB is investing the money made from the profitable PSL - clearly nothing is visible on the grass-root level. If anything, i can see only the detrimental effects of prolonged T20 exposure & the no.1 T20 ranking on test bowling. Till PCB does not prioritize first class cricket over PSL, hard to see our pace battery improving.

 

[Boi]

As I have said many times on here Afridi has a seam that doesn't move the ball back into right handers and if he doesn't fix it, he will be go nowhere. And as we have already discovered, very few ever get this right.

He bowled Labuschagne was an in swinger today. His seam position is fine. It’s his alignment at the crease when he delivers which creates too big of an angle forcing the ball across the right hander even though he has the seam perfectly slanting for the inswinger. Check McGrath analysis on it. With abit of work he needs to get that alignment sorted and then he will swing it in more consistently.

Naseem and Shaheen are genuine quality.
Hasnain has a lot of work to do whereas Musa I don’t see going far at all.

 

[Titan24]

We will give them a decade, they will play, they will be dropped, they will be brought back and then hated on here for being too old. The one thing very few will do is to work hard and improve.

That is why there are only few great pacers in the history of cricket as well in comparison to the number of pacers which have played cricket. If they cant put in hardwork and improve they will be like every other pacer, my hope is on the fact that we are not relying on just one youngster to come good this time around rather a few and if only 2 of them can turn out to be good our bowling will be set for the next decade.

If not than we arent ripping through batting lineups even now, though these young pacers atleast give us a chance and a hope.

 

[aloo paratha]

People have no patience. Shaheen is already a fantastic bowler in ODIs and T20s, and he's shown good potential in tests as well.

Naseem, Shaheen and Sameen Gul can be a very good trio in tests.

Hasnain, Naseem, and Shaheen can be a good trio in ODIs.

 

[aloo paratha]

However Musa is mediocre, he shouldn't play international cricket until he can be accurate and swing the ball.

 

[Titan24]

As I have said many times on here Afridi has a seam that doesn't move the ball back into right handers and if he doesn't fix it, he will be go nowhere. And as we have already discovered, very few ever get this right.

He actually improved that in this test match itself, that Labuschane dismissal was an indipper along with few other deliveries he has bowled. Maybe its Waqar or he himself worked hard but he has improved this aspect to an extent.

 

[Bewal Express]

He actually improved that in this test match itself, that Labuschane dismissal was an indipper along with few other deliveries he has bowled. Maybe its Waqar or he himself worked hard but he has improved this aspect to an extent.

I have seen little of the series bar the snippets on YouTube and I am heartened to hear that but I remain sceptical. I will look out for it when I do get a chance to see him. He has most basis covered bar the seam.

 

[Xoib]

As I have said many times on here Afridi has a seam that doesn't move the ball back into right handers and if he doesn't fix it, he will be go nowhere. And as we have already discovered, very few ever get this right.

Shaheen bowled decent inswing this tour couple of his wickets have been from inward movement these are not swinging conditions even Starc has not got it going consistently

 

[Bewal Express]

He bowled Labuschagne was an in swinger today. His seam position is fine. It’s his alignment at the crease when he delivers which creates too big of an angle forcing the ball across the right hander even though he has the seam perfectly slanting for the inswinger. Check McGrath analysis on it. With abit of work he needs to get that alignment sorted and then he will swing it in more consistently.

Naseem and Shaheen are genuine quality.
Hasnain has a lot of work to do whereas Musa I don’t see going far at all.

I am heartened to hear that but let's see.

 

[Xoib]

Shaheen and Naseem are serious potential Hasnain is a wild card but can also deliver if groomed right I hope these three develop properly

 

[Abid Z]

He is the only bowler on this tour who looked like getting Warner out and did actually twice

Naseem and Shaheen will be they keys while other will be support bowlers around them which are really important in current era of cricket with 3 formats of cricket. Musa definitely needs a lot of work and his selection was arguable considering his FC stats at this point of time but again I dont remember any pacer playing his 1st test in Aus and leaving a lasting impression.

Australia is probably a toughest place for bowler to debut.

Bro you’ve really gotta stop smoking that stuff you’re on!

This is no revival. This is not even close to being a flash in the pan. Flash in the pan performance I can live with. In 2000/2001 Sami in new Zealand and then against windies obliterated the opposition and outbowled waqar. You saw how that career went.
Shabbir had everything except a clean action yet around 2005/6 was one of the fastest to 50 wickets.
Umar Gul decimated a strong Indian lineup in Lahore in 2004 I think.
Amir destroyed England and Australia in 2010.
Junaid impressed everybody against Sri Lanka twice with his reverse swing once in uae and the other time I think it was kandy.

Now I don’t want to Be negative but with the passage of time we can look back and see these as flash in the pan performances. Bowlers who for one reason or another have failed to go on and provide consistent performances over 20 or so tests.

The reason is quite simply that at the time these guys were performing they were part of a relatively experienced attack ie you could point to somebody be it waqar, Shohaib, razzaq, saqlain asif, Kaneria anybody who could at least hold up an end when wickets were not coming giving a rookie license to express himself and practice his craft.

Now if we look at the bowlers operating today not only can they not take wickets they also are unable to dry up runs. So a flash in the pan performance is out of the question. It’s rather time to admit that the cupboard is completely bare. So bare in fact that we have to take teenagers still wet behind the ears for international tours. What this highlights is that potential is out of the question it’s player development that has failed consistently over the last decade or so and if we don’t polish our rough diamonds there is every chance that we will have another lost decade of bowling partnerships.

 

[Bewal Express]

Shaheen bowled decent inswing this tour couple of his wickets have been from inward movement these are not swinging conditions even Starc has not got it going consistently

Even if the ball doesn't swing, the seam position should be right and the ball will seam in. Inseam into a right hander is even more dangerous for a right handed batsmen than inswing which can sometimes be too early.

 

[ak619]

Aus is the last place where you judge a young pacer as I dont remember many pacers playing their 3rd and 1st match at the start of the tour let alone teenagers. If any pacer did that, I am all ears.

Of the top of my head, 19 year old Ishant Sharma played his 3rd test against Australia on the 2008 tour. I'm sure there will be a few more from other teams.

 

[Abid Z]

He is the only bowler on this tour who looked like getting Warner out and did actually twice

Shaheen and Naseem are serious potential Hasnain is a wild card but can also deliver if groomed right I hope these three develop properly

Potential counts for jack. They need to go back to domestic learn control and learn to move the ball sideways and both ways to challenge good batsmen. Then they need to begin to think about knocking on the door of selection not before. At the moment they are a long long way off international standards.

 

[Oneking]

Shaheen is great,
Can some one explain why was Musa picked for test, I thought he was a 20/20 bowler, what’s his first class average.

 

[tyron_woodley]

age is a number. No excuse actually. If you are good and deserves to get picked for your country then you have to take advantage of the opportunity and perform.
Yes players can improve later in their career when they hit their physical peak but players can peak early and then falter when they are older too. Everyone is different.

physical peak needs to match your mental peak to be at your absolute best.

 

[Bewal Express]

Shaheen and Naseem are serious potential Hasnain is a wild card but can also deliver if groomed right I hope these three develop properly

I along with everyone else on here was excited by his pace, but the more I watched the more I realised that his pace is illusionary as very few if any Batsman are hurried by him and For Hasnain to be successful, he also has to know how he will get people out. When I see him bowl, I along with him, have no idea how he will get people out. This maybe a consequence of T20, where not going for runs is the aim and taking wickets is a bonus.

 

[Xoib]

Potential counts for jack. They need to go back to domestic learn control and learn to move the ball sideways and both ways to challenge good batsmen. Then they need to begin to think about knocking on the door of selection not before. At the moment they are a long long way off international standards.

Shaheen went below 3 rpo @ 35 when was the last time a pak pacer had such numbers in Australia that too with no support Shaheen has good control already he had to add few more skills and then he is good to go.

 

[Abdullah719]

Shaheen is great,
Can some one explain why was Musa picked for test, I thought he was a 20/20 bowler, what’s his first class average.

His FC average is 37 and his T20 economy is 10.

He is not ready for international cricket in any format.