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Paris Bataclan shootings trial: Salah Abdeslam guilty as historic trial ends

Exactly, and what makes this brainwashing easier is the fact that most of these young men are nurtured religiously to take a leap of faith without questioning. So all their lives, they are subconsciously being prepared to fall victim to the hardcore brainwashing.

The problem is when you grow up believing that religion is above all and that some guy somewhere else is supposed to be your brother and not the guy next door then the issues start.
 
'Shootings' reported in central Paris

I think it's mostly Islamic immigrants that have caused the most disharmony in Europe, as one German said multiculturalism isn't a problem but muslims are.

Sorry Germany is doing fine with immigrants and no Islamophobia is not a problem here and hate speech and freedom of speech is considered 2 different things...fortunate for Germany we have free education and good social system so it is a little hard to corrupt minds with hate.

Paris incident is sad and no words can express how much this extremism will cost us all...









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First of all, what has my comment got to do with when ISIS was founded? Do you have trouble understanding English? I said that they have caused enough violence all over the world already regardless of whether they were founded a year ago or a day go. It is high time to wipe them off of the face of the earth and I, for one, would love muslims countries to be involved because groups like these give us a bad name.
Muslim countries are involved. Saudi Arabia is backing some groups, Iran is backing the Syrian Government, Turkey is backing another set, same goes for Qatar and Jordan. Even the likes of Isis and AQ are getting backing from somewhere. So your comments "Muslims countries should get involved" simply shows your lack of knowledge as to what is going on.

Secondly, you are incorrect. ISIS has been around for a long long time albeit under different names. Do a little research. Just because the group keeps changing its name does not mean it is something with originated a few years ago. It's been around since the late 90's.
Go and do some research. You're confusing Isis and AQ.
 
How is France Islamophobic? Its probably the most tolerant country in the world re:religion. You're fine to believe it once it doesnt affect public life.

And nobody here wants innocents dead, but common sesne will dictate that if a Muslim group carries out a huge terrorist attack (Assuming it is ISIS) then people will grow more wary/fearful. Would be the same if any minority group carried out such high profile attacks/threats.
The ban on the hijab in public. There has been a halal meat ban in some places. The french version of secularism is aggressive and anti religious. The british model of secularism is better that truly follows the each to their own motto. Banning a piece of clothing just because it doesnt fit your idea of liberty and infringing on someone elses right to wear something is against true liberal principles.

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Kill all these terrorists and not just them but also their sympathisers. There are many Muslims who may not be terrorists themselves but they sympathise with these monsters. They are a bigger problem. I say we eradicate them first.
Yeah people using the foreign policy excuse is a cop out. If these guys are born and bred in France then how did foreign policy affect them that much to do something like this. Loads of muslims in the west oppose the western foreign policy. But not like this. This senseless violence wont achieve anything. Lot of people who say this is a revenge for Iraq Libya Syria are idiots and are just implicit sympathisers.

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RIP to the victims! Hope further losses are minimised.

It's a shame that France has to suffer considering it is the most open and liberal society when compared to some of its European contemporaries like Britain and Germany.
As a minority you would much rather live in Britain. Britain doesnt have the aggressive secularism France does.

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Then don't whinge about Islamophobia (notice there is no term such as Pakistanophobia?) or when #KillAllMuslims starts trending on Twitter a few short hours from now.

You made your bed of thorns, now lie on it.
What kind of a pathetic statement is this. Pakistani Muslims dont support terror groups but the muslims who are suffering in the world. Pakistanis combine a religious and national identity. The Islamic concept of Ummah predates the nationalism that emerged in the 19th century. Normally u are a fairly intelligent poster but you have lost the plot sounding like a rabid right winger. Even if Pakistanis identify with Islamic identity people shouldnt be small minded or idiotic that they start attacking Muslims in the UK. this is a very france centric problem. This type of stuff doesnt happen in other Western countries.

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RIP to those who lost their lives.........OHh boy Islamophobia will be quadrippled now, whats my boi Anjem CHaudhary saying about this ?
Please at least try to hide your excitement at the prospect of rising Islamophobia

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I apologize to you or anyone else if you found my statements off the mark.

I was just shocked (I still am) at discovering this news earlier in the morning. My statements above might have been rather loose as a result.
Your statements sounded like something a right wing nut from the RSS would say. Some muslims have done something disgusting now all of them deserve punishment. This idea of collective punishment is pathetic. To justify something like# Kill All Muslims is really disgusting and way over the line. You have exposed your true feeling towards Muslims. And i thought u were a fairly decent poster.

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Another barbaric attack on innocent civilians by a group of muslim terrorists. Why am I not surprised?


The incident has happened in France but I m pretty sure that similar sorts of attacks r going to terrorize the whole Europe in the coming decades if the government of the respective countries don't take strict precautionary measures.

Very soon Germany and it's dumb chancellor will realise what a grave mistake they have made by giving shelters to those muslim refugees. It's like nurturing a venomous snake who will surely bite u one day.
These muslim refugees are mostly people who are anti islamists so moderates or secular like the Kurds. And Germanys Muslim.community is fairly well assimilated. This is a very France centric issue. The relationship between the North African minorities and the French Govt has been deterioaritating for some time.

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I think it's mostly Islamic immigrants that have caused the most disharmony in Europe, as one German said multiculturalism isn't a problem but muslims are.
Germany doesnt have incidents like these. The German Turk Muslims the largest minority are fairly well assimilated in German society.

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What kind of a pathetic statement is this. Pakistani Muslims dont support terror groups but the muslims who are suffering in the world. Pakistanis combine a religious and national identity. The Islamic concept of Ummah predates the nationalism that emerged in the 19th century. Normally u are a fairly intelligent poster but you have lost the plot sounding like a rabid right winger. Even if Pakistanis identify with Islamic identity people shouldnt be small minded or idiotic that they start attacking Muslims in the UK. this is a very france centric problem. This type of stuff doesnt happen in other Western countries.

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Indian Muslims should read the comments on what their fellow Indians think of them and their lovely generalisations. These sort of events however nasty bring out their true colours.
 
There's no thread about the ISIS bombing in Beirut which killed almost 43 people and wounded 200.

ISIS took responsibility for that one rather quickly they haven't come out with any statement on Paris yet.

However, their actions recently are really worrying. Starting from the plane bombing in Egypt, to the attack in Tunisia to these two attacks.

Something needs to be done.

They have just taken responsibility right now, according to the BBC.

And really let's be honest they have true capability of launching such coordinated and brazen attacks.
 
It is wrong to target [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION]. He is one of the least islamophobic and racist and most intellectual posters here.
 
Thousands of innocent children being killed everyday in Syria, Afghanistan and Palestine and nobody utters a word. Exaggeration at its best especially from the Muslim side who have far more concerns in their own lands.
 
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RIP to those who lost their lives.........OHh boy Islamophobia will be quadrippled now, whats my boi Anjem CHaudhary saying about this ?

Sick post. Could you be any more excited?

Think about the Apus from South India and how they will be treated in Arab countries they swarm as a counter to this Islamophobia you are excited about
 
That is the problem they are brainwashed and the fear factor is removed from their mind. If you still have fear factor left you don't go for suicide attacks or on a mission where you already know you will be dead in the end.

Nazis were more fearless and had brains and technology on their side as well.
Everyone fears death, or deaths of their family members. These guys feed off the fact that the victim countries wont be as barbaric as them and wont kill their non combatant families. It may change in no time though if world gets fed up.
 
The ban on the hijab in public. There has been a halal meat ban in some places. The french version of secularism is aggressive and anti religious. The british model of secularism is better that truly follows the each to their own motto. Banning a piece of clothing just because it doesnt fit your idea of liberty and infringing on someone elses right to wear something is against true liberal principles.

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The French are following their culture in their own country,they have the right to it.This is the society they have built.Immigrants who go there know this fully well.They go there to live a better life and must follow the rules of the nation the immigrated to.If they so much want their religious rules to be followed they should have stayed in a country where such rules are followed,rather than migrating to a foreign land and try to enforce their own rules.
 
Germany doesnt have incidents like these. The German Turk Muslims the largest minority are fairly well assimilated in German society.

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That is the key thing.Assimilation in the society.
 
The French are following their culture in their own country,they have the right to it.This is the society they have built.Immigrants who go there know this fully well.They go there to live a better life and must follow the rules of the nation the immigrated to.If they so much want their religious rules to be followed they should have stayed in a country where such rules are followed,rather than migrating to a foreign land and try to enforce their own rules.

The French claim to be all about liberty and liberalism. Which means the right for the individual to live their life as long as it doesn't infringe on another persons Liberty. A woman Wearing a hijab doesn't stop me or you from living our lives. Tell me how is wearing a hijab enforcing your views and rules on a society. Same way a Sikh guy wearing a turban isn't enforcing his rules on society. But this is to be expected from you.


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The French claim to be all about liberty and liberalism. Which means the right for the individual to live their life as long as it doesn't infringe on another persons Liberty. A woman Wearing a hijab doesn't stop me or you from living our lives. Tell me how is wearing a hijab enforcing your views and rules on a society. Same way a Sikh guy wearing a turban isn't enforcing his rules on society. But this is to be expected from you.


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Is there a ban on hijab or Niqab?

Niqab = covers everything but a small slit in eyes.

If it's Niqab then it's understandable due to
Security reasons . Also it's not a part of Islam anyway so it's not infringing on religious duties of its banned
 
The French claim to be all about liberty and liberalism. Which means the right for the individual to live their life as long as it doesn't infringe on another persons Liberty. A woman Wearing a hijab doesn't stop me or you from living our lives. Tell me how is wearing a hijab enforcing your views and rules on a society. Same way a Sikh guy wearing a turban isn't enforcing his rules on society. But this is to be expected from you.


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The person covering the face can be a security threat.Its hiding one's identity.Liberty and liberalism is not absolute they are bound within rules.The French consider hijab to be illegal and thats it.Anyone who lives in France must follow their rules.

Making personal comments on me wont change the reality.
 
Is there a ban on hijab or Niqab?

Niqab = covers everything but a small slit in eyes.

If it's Niqab then it's understandable due to
Security reasons . Also it's not a part of Islam anyway so it's not infringing on religious duties of its banned

There is ban on Niqab and hijab in public. Niqab I myself find uncomfortable but if it's a woman's choice not being forced to wear it. Then let her. For security reasons though in places like an airport I would ask them to remove it.


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Is there a ban on hijab or Niqab?

Niqab = covers everything but a small slit in eyes.

If it's Niqab then it's understandable due to
Security reasons . Also it's not a part of Islam anyway so it's not infringing on religious duties of its banned

Dont think Hijab is banned.Its the headscarf,right?
 
There is ban on Niqab and hijab in public. Niqab I myself find uncomfortable but if it's a woman's choice not being forced to wear it. Then let her. For security reasons though in places like an airport I would ask them to remove it.


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Hijab is wrong to be banned but Niqab I have no problem with being banned.

It's a security risk in public places and has no strong basis in Islam either so even the religious argument for it is weak
 
French Arabs and the French govt have a long history of mistrust and hatred. It's not the same in other European countries.


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There have been terror attacks linked to migrants in London as well.Isnt it?

How long before such attacks force the govt. to enforce anti immigrant laws?Make special laws for migrants?
 
Turkey has ban on BOTH hijab and niqab in public institutions till a few years ago atleast. Not sure about now. Maybe erdogan changed t now
 
The person covering the face can be a security threat.Its hiding one's identity.Liberty and liberalism is not absolute they are bound within rules.The French consider hijab to be illegal and thats it.Anyone who lives in France must follow their rules.

Making personal comments on me wont change the reality.

I get the point on the burqa but the hijab poses no security threat. Same way a turban doesn't. The French form of secularism is too aggressive in my opinion. British liberalism is better IMO. nYeah it's the French govts law so they gotta follow it. But Then calling the French the most open and free society is b.s and the ones the French like to perpetuate themselves we are so free and liberal and tolerant. Which isn't the case at all.


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There is ban on Niqab and hijab in public. Niqab I myself find uncomfortable but if it's a woman's choice not being forced to wear it. Then let her. For security reasons though in places like an airport I would ask them to remove it.


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Hijab is banned from schools while Niqab in public.

And it's fair enough TBH, France is a fierce secular republic country.

The North African/Arab population in France have huge social problems in France in terms of living in their own ghettos and getting jobs. End of the day they have to try to integrate as well. It's a give and take situation.
 
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There's no thread about the ISIS bombing in Beirut which killed almost 43 people and wounded 200.

ISIS took responsibility for that one rather quickly they haven't come out with any statement on Paris yet.

However, their actions recently are really worrying. Starting from the plane bombing in Egypt, to the attack in Tunisia to these two attacks.

Something needs to be done.

That is true. The media coverage of this is also minimal. A lot of the media coverage basically said that the bombing took place in a 'Hezbollah stronghold', therefore basically sweeping it under the carpet since everyone has very negative views on Hezbollah. The reality is that a lot of innocent people in a crowded public area were killed.
 
There have been terror attacks linked to migrants in London as well.Isnt it?

How long before such attacks force the govt. to enforce anti immigrant laws?Make special laws for migrants?

In London there was one attack the 7/7 bombings which were done by 3 British born Pakistanis and one British born Jamaican. After that there was the Lee rigby murder which was done by two British born Nigerians . So it's not migrants who are the issue. It's poisonous ideology of Wahabism and extremist Islamist coupled with botched western interventions in the Middle East and North Africa that have allowed extremism to flourish in some pockets of society. French Arabs are at the lowest rung of society in France. Western govts need to get out of bed with the ideologues of extremism aka the gulf states but as long as oil keeps flowing they will keep their mouths shut. And also the disastrous foreign policy continues these kinds of despicable incidents are more likely to happen.


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Hijab is banned from schools while Niqab in public.

And it's fair enough TBH, France is a fierce secular republic country.

The North African/Arab population in France have huge social problems in France in terms of living in their own ghettos and getting jobs. End of the day they have to try to integrate as well. It's a give and take situation.

I agree they have to integrate as well they are one if the worst integrated groups in Western Europe. People insult Brit Paks but we are way more integrated than these guys.


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In London there was one attack the 7/7 bombings which were done by 3 British born Pakistanis and one British born Jamaican. After that there was the Lee rigby murder which was done by two British born Nigerians . So it's not migrants who are the issue. It's poisonous ideology of Wahabism and extremist Islamist coupled with botched western interventions in the Middle East and North Africa that have allowed extremism to flourish in some pockets of society. French Arabs are at the lowest rung of society in France. Western govts need to get out of bed with the ideologues of extremism aka the gulf states but as long as oil keeps flowing they will keep their mouths shut. And also the disastrous foreign policy continues these kinds of despicable incidents are more likely to happen.


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Well said.

Even these attackers I am sure were highly likely to be born in France just like the Charlie Hebdo attackers.

This migrant angle is a red herring and not sure why it is keep being brought up.
 
RIP to all victoms.

A couple of morons does something wrong the finger starts pointing at 1.6 billion Muslims. Sick and tired of this BS.

I think it's mostly Islamic immigrants that have caused the most disharmony in Europe, as one German said multiculturalism isn't a problem but muslims are.

Bravo sir bravo !!!!
Your blaming the entire muslim immigrant population for something done by a bunch of nut cases. Its hard to explain something to people like you cos you guys have already painted us all as terrorist.
 
In London there was one attack the 7/7 bombings which were done by 3 British born Pakistanis and one British born Jamaican. After that there was the Lee rigby murder which was done by two British born Nigerians . So it's not migrants who are the issue. It's poisonous ideology of Wahabism and extremist Islamist coupled with botched western interventions in the Middle East and North Africa that have allowed extremism to flourish in some pockets of society. French Arabs are at the lowest rung of society in France. Western govts need to get out of bed with the ideologues of extremism aka the gulf states but as long as oil keeps flowing they will keep their mouths shut. And also the disastrous foreign policy continues these kinds of despicable incidents are more likely to happen.
There was also the Glasgow attack done by an Indian immigrant and a British born Iraqi.
 
Big deal. Thousands of innocent children being killed everyday in Syria, Afghanistan and Palestine and nobody utters a word. Exaggeration at its best especially from the Muslim side who have far more concerns in their own lands than these insignificant events in grander scheme.
Its not impossible to reject and condemn the deaths of innocents in Syria, Afghanistan and Palestine AND the mass killing of civilians in Paris. You can make this argument for any situation - we shouldn't feel sad for this situation because X and Y is much worse - no we should sympathise whenever and wherever innocents die in the world. It makes no difference if its west-on-Muslim, Muslim-on-Muslim or Muslim-on-west violence, nobody wants to see civilian deaths.

Its a big deal for those who simply wanted a peaceful night out in town on a Friday night in Paris and never came home to their families which you seem to find so insignificant. This could've been any one of us had we been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Remember its these Daesh thugs who are doing so much of the killing in Muslim countries right now in Syria, Libya and Iraq.

I agree the western media fails to sufficiently report civilian deaths in the Middle East as a result of western or western-allied actions, though there are some liberal western journalists who do a good job of reporting it like TYT, VICE, Guardian etc so one can't generalise.

Its significant as what these attacks do is cause a larger, harsher response by the west in these Muslim countries you speak of which in turn provokes further extremism and this cycle of violence continues.
 
Well said.

Even these attackers I am sure were highly likely to be born in France just like the Charlie Hebdo attackers.

This migrant angle is a red herring and not sure why it is keep being brought up.

From my own experience migrants are more grateful to be living in western countries. But people who are born here get all the benefits of the west some of them are more namak haraam. Harking back to an Islamic state or mythical Islamic glories . that's from my own experience.


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From my own experience migrants are more grateful to be living in western countries. But people who are born here get all the benefits of the west some of them are more namak haraam. Harking back to an Islamic state or mythical Islamic glories . that's from my own experience.


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Yeah I think it's a combination of factors. Confusion of identity, getting a job to keep busy or a good education (even then some still fall prey), living in isolated communities with little integration and then coupled with the brainwashing of these young individuals by these extremists then this is the result we see.

Easily manipulated bunch of people, we are still talking about an extreme minority but the damage they cause is incalculable. They will have made life really tough now for France's Arab/Muslim population in the coming weeks and months, maybe years.
 
Yeah people using the foreign policy excuse is a cop out. If these guys are born and bred in France then how did foreign policy affect them that much to do something like this. Loads of muslims in the west oppose the western foreign policy. But not like this. This senseless violence wont achieve anything. Lot of people who say this is a revenge for Iraq Libya Syria are idiots and are just implicit sympathisers.

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These extremist need to be condemned 100% they are pure evil and maniacal I agree since ISIS seem to be aspiring imperialists themselves by sowing chaos like this. At the same time people need to stop being selective when it comes to their outrage , 44 people were killed in Lebanon recently. It is also worth mentioning that France made a $12bn deal with the Saudies in June, it's of no surprise why their president has been silent when it comes to the flow of funds to ISIS. Foreign Policy is to blame since intervention has done little to stabilize the countries they invaded and intervened in which in turn has lead to more terror. We live in times where Islamaphobia is rampant thanks to the prowess of terrorist organisations which the west do little to actually tackle given the political realism so in places like France and UK there is more potential for people to be brain-washed by ISIS while in places like Syriya, Libya, Iraq, Afghan etc the people there are brain-washed by terrorist organisations when intervention does more to ensure/create terror rather then preventing it, e.g killing civilians in the name of targeting one alleged terrorist doesn't help in addition to the other destruction caused by weapons from R and D they like to "test" while arming/supplying various groups who may or may not be actually helping in the battle against pure evil like ISIS. Extremism is necessary for western imperialism and incidents like the ones in Paris will have their leaders laughing out of their boots. I don't like how 1.2 billion of us get painted with the same brush and have to apologise every-time when ignorant folk refuse to look at the root of the problem, it's so much easier to blame our religion and all the bad interpretations (Which I disagree with) but when we have to apologise it's almost as if we are accepting our mistake and it takes away focus the contributing factors (which should be highlighted in times like this and thankfully there are folk who are doing that) of incidents in Paris beyond the monsters who are responsible for pulling the trigger.
 
It is wrong to target [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION]. He is one of the least islamophobic and racist and most intellectual posters here.
Thats what i thought. But some of his posts were pathetic. I get being angry amd upset at these attacks. But it just revealed his hidden bigotry. I would expecr raw deal or leo fender aka tempus bhai to make posts like that. Not Varun

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Muslim countries are involved. Saudi Arabia is backing some groups, Iran is backing the Syrian Government, Turkey is backing another set, same goes for Qatar and Jordan. Even the likes of Isis and AQ are getting backing from somewhere. So your comments "Muslims countries should get involved" simply shows your lack of knowledge as to what is going on.

Go and do some research. You're confusing Isis and AQ.

Turkey is bombing the Kurds. When I say get involved, as I stated in me earlier post as well, I meant actually send troops and fight this disease. Some Middle Eastern countries are funding ISIS but that is not what I meant by getting involved.

I don't understand what crawled up your backside. Fact of the matter is the only Muslim country actually involved in all of this is Turkey and they, as I said, are bombing the Kurds and are not really involved with the ISIS.

..and again, involved as in fighting against ISIS which is what I clearly stated in my first post. Apparently, you misunderstood maybe I just write it in Urdu to help you understand a bit better?

and secondly, I'm not talking about AQ. I was talking about Jamaat al-Tawḥid wa al-Jihad. They had borne allegiance to AQ in the middle for a few years but this is a completely different group to AQ. I'm not in the mood to give you a history lesson so I would suggest you start googling. For someone of your intellect, Wikipedia would be a brilliant start. Let me know when you're caught up.
 
These extremist need to be condemned 100% they are pure evil and maniacal I agree since ISIS seem to be aspiring imperialists themselves by sowing chaos like this. At the same time people need to stop being selective when it comes to their outrage , 44 people were killed in Lebanon recently. It is also worth mentioning that France made a $12bn deal with the Saudies in June, it's of no surprise why their president has been silent when it comes to the flow of funds to ISIS. Foreign Policy is to blame since intervention has done little to stabilize the countries they invaded and intervened in which in turn has lead to more terror. We live in times where Islamaphobia is rampant thanks to the prowess of terrorist organisations which the west do little to actually tackle given the political realism so in places like France and UK there is more potential for people to be brain-washed by ISIS while in places like Syriya, Libya, Iraq, Afghan etc the people there are brain-washed by terrorist organisations when intervention does more to ensure/create terror rather then preventing it, e.g killing civilians in the name of targeting one alleged terrorist doesn't help in addition to the other destruction caused by weapons from R and D they like to "test" while arming/supplying various groups who may or may not be actually helping in the battle against pure evil like ISIS. Extremism is necessary for western imperialism and incidents like the ones in Paris will have their leaders laughing out of their boots. I don't like how 1.2 billion of us get painted with the same brush and have to apologise every-time when ignorant folk refuse to look at the root of the problem, it's so much easier to blame our religion and all the bad interpretations (Which I disagree with) but when we have to apologise it's almost as if we are accepting our mistake and it takes away focus the contributing factors (which should be highlighted in times like this and thankfully there are folk who are doing that) of incidents in Paris beyond the monsters who are responsible for pulling the trigger.
Bro i agree the collective apology thing is b.s and foreign policy plays a huge part in the radicalisation of these guys. But when u are born in europe i dont get how u could be driven to commit acts like these. People in Syria Iraq etc i can see how they woupd be driven to IS. i agree our govts are in bed with the Saudis if they were serious about tackling extremism the saudis would be met with more resistance and they wouldnt be allwed to ne funding madrassas preaching their ideology here in the west. Extremism is used to justify western imperialism i know and these islamic extremists want the govts to react violently and harshly against the muslim populations so that there is more marginalisation and grounds for radicalisation.

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These European countries are too politically correct and not tough on potential miscreants.

Since 9/11 if I'm not wrong only the Boston bombings have happened in the US as far as Islamic inspired extremism is concerned. Why have they been so successful in stopping terrorism within their borders?
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Assad?src=hash">#Assad</a> to <a href="https://twitter.com/fhollande">@fhollande</a> "I'll share intel on ISIS if you change your policy in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Syria?src=hash">#Syria</a> " <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/France?src=hash">#France</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ParisAttacks?src=hash">#ParisAttacks</a> <a href="https://t.co/3Q1jNsjfmy">https://t.co/3Q1jNsjfmy</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/WSJ">@WSJ</a></p>— Sam Dagher (@samdagher) <a href="https://twitter.com/samdagher/status/665536145929822208">November 14, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Assad has some nerve. Obnoxious individual.
 
Its not impossible to reject and condemn the deaths of innocents in Syria, Afghanistan and Palestine AND the mass killing of civilians in Paris. You can make this argument for any situation - we shouldn't feel sad for this situation because X and Y is much worse - no we should sympathise whenever and wherever innocents die in the world. It makes no difference if its west-on-Muslim, Muslim-on-Muslim or Muslim-on-west violence, nobody wants to see civilian deaths.

Its a big deal for those who simply wanted a peaceful night out in town on a Friday night in Paris and never came home to their families which you seem to find so insignificant. This could've been any one of us had we been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Remember its these Daesh thugs who are doing so much of the killing in Muslim countries right now in Syria, Libya and Iraq.

I agree the western media fails to sufficiently report civilian deaths in the Middle East as a result of western or western-allied actions, though there are some liberal western journalists who do a good job of reporting it like TYT, VICE, Guardian etc so one can't generalise.

Its significant as what these attacks do is cause a larger, harsher response by the west in these Muslim countries you speak of which in turn provokes further extremism and this cycle of violence continues.

Ofcourse innocent blood shouldn't have been shed but the point I'm trying to emphasize is this is nothing compared to everything going around in the world right now, last one year or last 5 years and even more. We are in a state of war and right now Muslims are being humiliated and threatened in their own lands. Do you have any idea what's happening in Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Palestine and my own beloved Kashmir. Just because a son who saw his parents being killed by these barbarians tries to get revenge doesn't make him a terrorist. The real terrorists are the ones who destroyed his life, snatched everything from him. In a war it's never only the armies which fight it out. Millions of years of human history and countless wars and it has always been the same.

The argument about those people killing Muslims back in Syria and Lebanon. Well if they really are doing so I will vehemently condemn it but then again we don't know what exactly is happening. Look if we are to be believe the media, nobody ever died in these countries, America is a symbol of justice and all Muslims are those paranoid people with guns who kill anyone who doesn't believe in our ideology.
 
Bro i agree the collective apology thing is b.s and foreign policy plays a huge part in the radicalisation of these guys. But when u are born in europe i dont get how u could be driven to commit acts like these. People in Syria Iraq etc i can see how they woupd be driven to IS. i agree our govts are in bed with the Saudis if they were serious about tackling extremism the saudis would be met with more resistance and they wouldnt be allwed to ne funding madrassas preaching their ideology here in the west. Extremism is used to justify western imperialism i know and these islamic extremists want the govts to react violently and harshly against the muslim populations so that there is more marginalisation and grounds for radicalisation.

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I agree with your post bro I was just trying to look at the perspective of why folk born in Europe would be driven to join IS and I do feel like a big reason of why they do is Islamaphobia and crimes committed by Facists; also you know there are madrassas in the UK funded by saudi to and there are molvis who really get peeps riled up in the wrong way through the narrative of "they hate you all they want to kill you because Islam is the greatest and they are at war to prevent the religion from being spreaded, look at what so and so facist did to x,y,z how they treat you muslims like skum etc" that's why I didn't join Islamic society at my uni most indirectly preach the wahabi agenda through the disguise of salafism and the thing is Islamphobia is a big problem and while people like me and you understand that issues like that need to be dealt with through peace, understanding and tolerance others are made to believe that it can't be achieved in that form. In that sense you can say that foreign policy is partly to blame for Islamaphobia in the UK and how easy it is for certain folk to be manipulated into joining IS. But that's only a minority and majority of us are sane here in the UK and France etc.

You had a look on twitter at the hate being spewed towards Muslims :/ I have a naive and innocent little young sis that catches the bus to college etc it frightens me. Incidents like the ones in Paris are allowed to take place thanks to foreign policy and it tends to increase Islamaphobic crimes in the west which in turn is able to bring IS more recruits from Europe in addition to the saudi funded madrassas I was talking about earlier.
 
I am just so thankful that Britain's Muslims are so well integrated that this sort of attack is almost non-existent. I have always said that if terrorism was such a scourge in this country it would be in turmoil as anybody can get a hold of weapons and launch attacks on bars and restaurants. Now we are seeing that in France. Thank god it is not like that over here in easy going Britain.
 
'Shootings' reported in central Paris

Ok apparently they found passports near remains of attackers- why would a suicide bomber want to carry a passport knowing well he will be blown to pieces...? I guess the passports are indestructible.
 
The Russian plane, Beirut and now Paris all in under a month. That is while Russia, Assad and CIA bombing them in Iraq and Syria. How are ISIS becoming so powerful?
 
The Russian plane, Beirut and now Paris all in under a month. That is while Russia, Assad and CIA bombing them in Iraq and Syria. How are ISIS becoming so powerful?

ISIS just suffered one of the modern military humiliations in Sinjar. The last spark of the lamp is always the most incandescent. ISIS was already crumbling ideologically since months (and not only the cannon fodders, but also the high command - al Baghdadi is under the perpetual psychological threat of "high treason" from his closest officers, who, let me remind you, are old Ba'athists), but now, with the latest attacks on civilians - a "spectacular" operation needed to "revitalize" the ISIS spirit -, even their Twitter fanboys are shaking.
 
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Breaking News: TGV train derails near French city of Strasbourg, five killed and seven injured, local media report.

Not sure if its related to terrorism but what is going on in France :O

Doesn't look like it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Excessive speed" during test run blamed for TGV train derailment that killed 5 people near Strasbourg, sources say <a href="https://t.co/TAVsEiKJj1">https://t.co/TAVsEiKJj1</a></p>— BBC Breaking News (@BBCBreaking) <a href="https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/665564162068750336">November 14, 2015</a></blockquote>
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ISIS just suffered one of the modern military humiliations in Sinjar. The last spark of the lamp is always the most incandescent. ISIS was already crumbling ideologically since months (and not only the cannon fodders, but also the high command - al Baghdadi is under the perpetual psychological threat of "high treason" from his closest officers, who, let me remind you, are old Ba'athists), but now, with the latest attacks on civilians - a "spectacular" operation needed to "revitalize" the ISIS spirit -, even their Twitter fanboys are shaking.

ISIS is fighting on so many fronts there are bound to be some losses. Kurds, NATO, Assad, Rebels, Russians, Iran, Iraq.
 
The Russian plane, Beirut and now Paris all in under a month. That is while Russia, Assad and CIA bombing them in Iraq and Syria. How are ISIS becoming so powerful?

because ISIS are the pawns of these organizations.
 
Doesn't look like it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"Excessive speed" during test run blamed for TGV train derailment that killed 5 people near Strasbourg, sources say <a href="https://t.co/TAVsEiKJj1">https://t.co/TAVsEiKJj1</a></p>— BBC Breaking News (@BBCBreaking) <a href="https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/665564162068750336">November 14, 2015</a></blockquote>
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why were there any people in the Test run :13:
 
Yeah people using the foreign policy excuse is a cop out. If these guys are born and bred in France then how did foreign policy affect them that much to do something like this. Loads of muslims in the west oppose the western foreign policy. But not like this. This senseless violence wont achieve anything. Lot of people who say this is a revenge for Iraq Libya Syria are idiots and are just implicit sympathisers.

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That number is actually not that small and that is a big part of this entire problem. Such a large number extremist can't grow in vacuum. They do have enough base to grow. You don't have to go far away. Just look in PP.
 
it can be monitored from a station. The technology is that advance there isn't a need for a human to be there
Depends upon the tests, the testing equipment, sensors, comms. links - including having a train driver on board driving the train. The testers probably also need to make other on-board adjustments during the tests.

Just as you need real test pilots actually flying the planes during test flights, you also need real test train drivers actually driving the trains. Tests are meaningless unless you try and re-create scenarios and conditions similar to those that the train may encounter when it enters actual operation.
 
Depends upon the tests, the testing equipment, sensors, comms. links - including having a train driver on board driving the train. The testers probably also need to make other on-board adjustments during the tests.

Just as you need real test pilots actually flying the planes during test flights, you also need real test train drivers actually driving the trains. Tests are meaningless unless you try and re-create scenarios and conditions similar to those that the train may encounter when it enters actual operation.

it could be that but what if someone intentionally failed the test and the people inside the train weren't actually engineers for the test. Just saying because I find it really odd that a test is taking place less than 24 hours when the whole country is in lock down :irfan :srt
 
Really sad to see what happened. The world powers need to step back and reassess their policies in middle east because there seems to be no end to this menace and it keeps getting worse and worse...
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lassana Diarra confirms the death of his cousin in the Paris terror attacks <a href="https://t.co/nvjXQQ8E8x">https://t.co/nvjXQQ8E8x</a> <a href="https://t.co/B809b7penS">pic.twitter.com/B809b7penS</a></p>— JOE.co.uk (@JOE_co_uk) <a href="https://twitter.com/JOE_co_uk/status/665597323838361602">November 14, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Sad to hear. :(
 
Major major intelligence failure...pretty obvious these jihadis are local...had the exact knowledge of all the venues, shows, events...for maximum casualties
 
Where I live, Mullahbeek. Not surprised, probably tons of ISIS sympathisers in the local Moroccan community, know two brothers living some houses from me who went to Syria :

Paris attacks: Belgian police raid Brussels neighbourhood and make 'several' arrests in connection with terror massacre
(...)
Belgian TV news reported an arrest has been made in the suburb of Molenbeek and a video posted on Twitter showed a man being handcuffed by what appear to be plain clothes officers and uniformed cops with guns as he lies face down on a wall.
(...)
Its website quoted a source close to the operations as saying there had been "between two and three searches, linked to the Paris attacks" and that one man had been arrested.

A Molenbeek parking ticket was also allegedly found in a car the terrorists.

Earlier it was reported that one of the cars used by the terrorists carried a Belgian number plate, reports French newspaper Le Monde.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/paris-attacks-belgian-police-raid--6832856
 
I am just so thankful that Britain's Muslims are so well integrated that this sort of attack is almost non-existent. I have always said that if terrorism was such a scourge in this country it would be in turmoil as anybody can get a hold of weapons and launch attacks on bars and restaurants. Now we are seeing that in France. Thank god it is not like that over here in easy going Britain.

Agree with this.British Muslims by far are the most integrated muslims in Europe.Something i have experienced myself during my short stays in UK.Is it because of the fact that British Muslims are mostly subcontinental and they have a far more diverse society in SC than in Africa or middle east?
 
Suicide Bomber Wearing an Explosive Vest Was Blocked From Entering Stade de France Soccer Venue

PARIS—At least one of the attackers outside France’s national soccer stadium had a ticket to the game and attempted to enter the 80,000-person venue, according to a Stade de France security guard who was on duty and French police.

The guard—who asked to be identified only by his first name, Zouheir—said the attacker was discovered wearing an explosives vest when he was frisked at the entrance to the stadium about 15 minutes into the game. France was playing an exhibition against Germany inside.

While attempting to back away from security, Zouheir said, the attacker detonated the vest, which was loaded with explosives and bolts, according to Paris prosecutor François Molins. Zouheir, who was stationed by the players’ tunnel, said he was briefed on the sequence by the security frisking team at the gate.

A police officer confirmed the sequence, adding that police suspect the attacker aimed to detonate his vest inside the stadium in order to provoke a deadly stampede.

Around three minutes later, a second person also blew himself up outside the stadium. A third suicide attacker detonated explosives at a nearby McDonald’s, police said. One civilian died in the attacks, police said.

The account sheds light on why the suicide attacks on Stade de France failed to cause the carnage that occurred at the Bataclan concert hall and restaurants across Paris. More than 120 people died in the string of attacks Friday.

The blasts occurred during the first half of the game, sowing confusion throughout the stadium. At least two blasts were heard clearly inside the stadium, witnesses said, and on the television broadcast. Loud blasts aren’t uncommon at soccer matches on the European continent where fans sometimes set off firecrackers.

At first, Zouheir said he too thought the early blast was a firecracker. Then his walkie-talkie came alive with chatter, and he noticed that French President François Hollande—who was in attendance at the Stade de France—was being ushered out of the stadium.

“Once I saw Hollande being evacuated, I knew it wasn’t firecrackers,” said Zouheir, who could see the VIP box from his post. He added that President Hollande left after the first blast.

The game continued for the regulation 90 minutes. French soccer federation head Noel le Graet said that the information wasn’t communicated to the fans or the players in order to avoid a panic. Witnesses reported that news began to spread inside the stadium late in the second half.

“During the second half I started getting news alerts about attacks in Paris, but I didn’t make the connection immediately,” said Pierre Tissier, 27, who heard the explosions during the game, but said he thought it might have just been firecrackers.

A spokesman for the French soccer federation didn’t respond to requests Saturday to comment on the events.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/attacker-tried-to-enter-paris-stadium-but-was-turned-away-1447520571
 
it could be that but what if someone intentionally failed the test and the people inside the train weren't actually engineers for the test. Just saying because I find it really odd that a test is taking place less than 24 hours when the whole country is in lock down :irfan :srt
Sorry to say, but life has to go on. The whole country doesn't come to a halt when something like this happens.
People still have to go to work, shops still have to open, everyone still has to eat. New trains still need to be tested.

In fact if a country did come to a complete halt when an incident like this occurs, then the terrorists have won, they've achieved their objective. Whilst carrying on as normal is saying to the terrorists "F*** Off" you can't dictate what we do or how we run our lives.

The train was carrying 49 people, all of whom were employees of SNCF national railways.

Local officials told AFP that the accident was apparently caused by "excessive speed.”

The train derailed while on a bridge and the cars fell into the Marne-Rhine canal, according to witness reports. Photos from the scene show smoke coming from the carriages.

The accident happened on a new high-speed line between Paris and Strasbourg, which hadn’t been used before. According to reports, the train line was due to be opened next year.

There have been no terror-related reports.

https://www.rt.com/news/322054-tgv-train-derails-eckwersheim/
A high speed train doing a test run on a high speed track not used previously. A very unfortunate accident.
 

Good security ahead of euro 2016, not so sure about the rest of Paris


I had an interesting conversation with my young niece to see how she interpreted the news, she told me isis were getting revenge for bombs on syria and that noone gets so upset when dozens of syrians have died every day for the last two years

She agreed isis was a terrorist organisation that killed more muslims than non muslims and said noone really says anything to her at school where she feels she has to defend herself unnecessarily
 
Good security ahead of euro 2016, not so sure about the rest of Paris


I had an interesting conversation with my young niece to see how she interpreted the news, she told me isis were getting revenge for bombs on syria and that noone gets so upset when dozens of syrians have died every day for the last two years

She agreed isis was a terrorist organisation that killed more muslims than non muslims and said noone really says anything to her at school where she feels she has to defend herself unnecessarily

Well I'm sure when the tournament takes place then there will be extra security and all in areas where it is required.

In day to day life, I reckon it's almost impossible to secure everything. What can they do? Specially with these kind of attacks. It's so difficult to actually prevent them unless intel is gathered before hand, in which case movements can be anticipated and be dealt with. Otherwise, the only thing to be done is an extremely swift response to contain the situation.

The tragic part is when that swift response can not stop the deaths of 150+ people.
 
Well I'm sure when the tournament takes place then there will be extra security and all in areas where it is required.

In day to day life, I reckon it's almost impossible to secure everything. What can they do? Specially with these kind of attacks. It's so difficult to actually prevent them unless intel is gathered before hand, in which case movements can be anticipated and be dealt with. Otherwise, the only thing to be done is an extremely swift response to contain the situation.

The tragic part is when that swift response can not stop the deaths of 150+ people.

If i was a German placed in France during the friendly , i wouldnt have felt very secure
France do have a few months to try and beef up security
 
Ok apparently they found passports near remains of attackers- why would a suicide bomber want to carry a passport knowing well he will be blown to pieces...? I guess the passports are indestructible.
Some would say this is a bit convenient just like how one of the charlie hebdo killers left his ID in the getaway car a yr earlier
 
i dont think the islamic problem can be solved tbh. there are too many things about the religion that are inherently violent.
 
same is true about christianity but i'm fairly sure a much larger proportion of its followers are educated. lack of education along with parts of the religious text that support violence is a deadly combination.
 
i dont think the islamic problem can be solved tbh. there are too many things about the religion that are inherently violent.

Have you studied the religion? Or are you talking about it without any real knowledge of it?
 
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