[PICTURES] A stunner in Indian elections, for Narendra Modi and BJP its just like chickens came home to roost

[RexRex]

But here is a detailed write up I found of religion based laws in the US.

Which US states have passed religious laws? - BBC News

More than a dozen states in the US have considered or passed "religious liberty" laws to appease religious groups, sparking controversy and protest.

www.bbc.com

That BBC article is useless. It describes 'religious liberty' laws - those are completely different from religious laws.

Religious liberty laws protect your right to practise religion in a secular world.
Religious laws force religion on people in some capacity.

 

[JaDed]

No. I am saying pick a standard and stick to it. But be mindful that each standard somehow leads to a “religion based” approach. You said you prefer option 1. So I presented the cons of that. There are cons of option 2 as well.

But no matter what direction you take, you have to acknowledge faith based legislation. So it’s a fine line. When you talk of UCC, it’s always going to be derived from somewhere. So it will always have some religion’s influence on it.

If you can manage it don’t doesn’t appear so, great! Do it. But I think you can see what happened when I brought out the subject of cow slaughter. You immediately went into the Hindu defense mode and pivoted to it not being a requirement.

It’s stuff like that that will disenfranchise the minorities. Apart from that I don’t think anybody will deny that the concept of same law for all is somehow unfair.

I just wanted to confirm on why you brought in cow slaughter,
I have posts on this before where i was specific UCC to be made and cow slaughter to be allowed(which it is already in many Indian states) am certain it was against Joshilla as well.

 

[JaDed]

I am all for uniform civil code. No religious laws.

Yeah I agree on that as well, will create an easier approach for everyone.

 

[RexRex]

Yeah I agree on that as well, will create an easier approach for everyone.

That would mean allowing cow slaughter in all states of India.

 

[Ahmed216]

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi will remain in office but with a substantially reduced mandate, confounding expectations of a resounding victory forecast by analysts and exit polls

Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) failed to secure an outright majority for the first time since the Hindu nationalist leader swept to power a decade ago, and will instead rely on coalition allies to govern.

AFP takes a look at the reasons why Modi and his party failed to achieve a third successive landslide win:

Divisive campaign falls flat

Critics and rights groups accused Modi of ramping up rhetoric against Muslims to unprecedented levels during his campaign in a bid to mobilise the Hindu majority.

At his rallies, he referred to Muslims as “infiltrators”, and claimed the main opposition Congress party would redistribute the nation’s wealth to Muslims if it won.

But the strategy failed to galvanise Hindu voters behind the BJP, while also solidifying minority communities’ support for the opposition.

The BJP’s vote share dropped nearly one point to 36.6 per cent from the last election five years ago, translating in India’s electoral system into a drop from 303 to 240 seats in the 543-member parliament.

Numerous voters over the course of the election told AFP that they were more concerned with India’s chronic unemployment problem than with the government’s ideological agenda.

“People were concerned about livelihood, unemployment, price rises,” Nilanjan Mukhopadhyay, the author of a Modi biography, told AFP.

“They did not relate to what Modi and the BJP were saying.”

Biggest state flips
For the first time in 15 years, Modi’s party failed to win the most seats in Uttar Pradesh, India’s most populous state and a bellwether for national elections.

Uttar Pradesh is the heartland of India’s majority faith, with widespread support for Modi’s Hindu-nationalist agenda, and had for the past decade formed the bedrock of the BJP’s parliamentary strength.

But an alliance of opposition parties who had competed against each other in past polls saw BJP candidates face stronger rivals, who ultimately won more than half of the state’s seats.

Modi won his seat in the state, representing the Hindu holy city of Varanasi, by just 152,000 votes — compared to a victory margin of nearly half a million votes in 2019.

Spectacularly, the BJP’s candidate lost in the constituency representing Ayodhya, despite Modi in January inaugurating a divisive Hindu temple built on the grounds of a razed mosque there.

“The opposition managed to put a sword back to him and Uttar Pradesh has shown resistance to his brand of politics,” political scientist Ramu Manivannan of the University of Denver told AFP.

The BJP’s electoral strategy was premised on increasing its parliamentary majority by gaining ground in India’s wealthier and better-educated southern states.

Modi made repeated whistlestop tours through the south where he affirmed his “topmost respect” to local culture.

He also embarked on a 48-hour meditation ritual in the southern coastal town of Kanyakumari last week when the vote was nearly over.

But the premier’s relentless campaigning did not translate into significant gains where they were needed.

The party failed to win a single seat in Tamil Nadu state — almost as populous as Germany with 84 million people — and won just one constituency in neighbouring Kerala, with a population of 35 million.

Manivannan said that “ideological resistance in the south” had played its part in the BJP’s lacklustre result.

Southern voters have typically backed regional parties strongly rooted in appeals to social justice policies and opposed the BJP, and Modi’s muscular Hindu-first ideology has held little appeal.

Source: Dawn News

Good to know that this bigot will be kept under check. Absolutely abominable character.
I salute the people of India who voted against him

 

[Stewie]

Your religion also says that your god is the only god, so rest everyone should stop following their religion for you?

Should non Muslims start paying you Jaziya?

You are allowed to follow your religion within the ambit of law. Where ever religious laws clashes with constitution, constitution takes precedence.

Its freedom of religion and exercising your religion. Not enforcing it on others. You can pray to whomever you want. Who says you cannot? Jaziya is also a tax that non Muslims pay living in a country where there is Islamic law or Shariah and the people are under the protections of a Muslim leader. Jaziya stands in for Zakat which Muslims pay. So based on your religious status either you pay Zakat or jaziya. Jaziya is not an additional tax on top of Zakat that non Muslims have to pay. You are misconstruing the entire spirit of this discussion.

None of that applies on India.

 

[JaDed]

That would mean allowing cow slaughter in all states of India.

Yeah I know.. my issue is not only with cow slaughter but with all animals, which I don’t impose on my family so why would i impose it on Indians.

I will always oppose factory slaughtering of animals though.

 

[Stewie]

That BBC article is useless. It describes 'religious liberty' laws - those are completely different from religious laws.

Religious liberty laws protect your right to practise religion in a secular world.
Religious laws force religion on people in some capacity.

With a caveat, though. Religious laws are only "religious laws" officially if you claim to be a theological state so to speak. How can you impose "religious" laws in a what many refer here as a "secular" state?

How can you ban cow slaughter in the said "secular" state?

 

[cricketjoshila]

That would mean allowing cow slaughter in all states of India.

Yes. Allow it. But regulate it as its a holy animal to the majority of Indians.

Do read article 48 of the Indian constitution.

 

[JaDed]

With a caveat, though. Religious laws are only "religious laws" officially if you claim to be a theological state so to speak. How can you impose "religious" laws in a what many refer here as a "secular" state?

How can you ban cow slaughter in the said "secular" state?

Liquor is banned in Gujarat just saying, there are other weird laws too.

 

[RexRex]

How can you impose "religious" laws in a what many refer here as a "secular" state?

Well you've already given one rare example. Alcohol ban on sundays is a religious law. So technically america is not a secular country. Apart from that, pretty much every law is religion neutral in the US.

 

[JaDed]

Well you've already given one rare example. Alcohol ban on sundays is a religious law. So technically america is not a secular country. Apart from that, pretty much every law is religion neutral in the US.

Just hard alcohol, Wine and Beer are available.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Its freedom of religion and exercising your religion. Not enforcing it on others. You can pray to whomever you want. Who says you cannot? Jaziya is also a tax that non Muslims pay living in a country where there is Islamic law or Shariah and the people are under the protections of a Muslim leader. Jaziya stands in for Zakat which Muslims pay. So based on your religious status either you pay Zakat or jaziya. Jaziya is not an additional tax on top of Zakat that non Muslims have to pay. You are misconstruing the entire spirit of this discussion.

None of that applies on India. Please try to educate yourself on such ideas and concept before pretending to know enough to have an educated debate with others. Thank you.

But since you say your religious freedom means you allowed 4 wives, it means you want yourself to be governed by Sharia?No?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Just hard alcohol, Wine and Beer are available.

Muslims follow all laws in west, they have no separate personal laws, but they want special laws in India.

Muslim majority countries usually declare themselves Islamic nation, but when in minority they will talk about religious freedom.

Look how @Stewie wants special laws for Muslims. He believes following sharia civil laws is essential to his religious freedom.

 

[RexRex]

Wine and Beer are available.

Not in Arkansas or Mississipi.

 

[JaDed]

Not in Arkansas or Mississipi.

Not statewide, it’s county wide. Many places sell wine and liquor even in restaurants and bars.

 

[RexRex]

Yes. Allow it. But regulate it as its a holy animal to the majority of Indians.

Do read article 48 of the Indian constitution.

Article 48 was created to cater to hindu sentiments. It has to be amended.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Guys plz refrain from off topic discussion as there are other relevant threads for them too. Thanks

 

[The Bald Eagle]

For BJP it literally was Chicken came home to roost scenario as they didn't loss the election in adversary constituencies but in their own backyard of UP aka BJP's impregnable fort. As explained nicely also in the video below:

 

[Stewie]

But since you say your religious freedom means you allowed 4 wives, it means you want yourself to be governed by Sharia?No?

Maybe stick to medicine next time. LOL

Shariah Law is imposed on all as a law of the land. In India's case that will never happen. We are only talking about liberties and freedoms enjoyed by the citizens of a country as pertaining to one's religion. There is a massive difference between the two.

 

[Stewie]

Well you've already given one rare example. Alcohol ban on sundays is a religious law. So technically america is not a secular country. Apart from that, pretty much every law is religion neutral in the US.

I think the gist of my argument is that ALL LAWS ARE BASED IN RELIGION.

Now you may not feel that because you have grown so accustomed to them over the years that you view them as social norms and not steeped in religion, but the truth is they all are.

And with countries such as the USA and other western states, if you dig deep enough you will find this to be true. They claim separation of church and state but its not entirely true and there are laws here based on Judeo Christian traditions. No alcohol on church days in some states. More importantly, people use the excuse of exercising their religious freedom to do or not do certain things. I already used an example above of this situation as well.

So based on our origin, your norms will differ. Muslims and Hindus will never see eye to eye on such things. A UCC has to be utterly divorced from religion for it to work. If Hindus majority can somehow make a case for it... great!

 

[KB]

Interesting to look at the vote share for the BJP:

In 2014, the BJP gained 31.0% of the votes cast and 51.9% of the seats (282 seats)
In 2019, the BJP gained 37.3% of the votes cast and 55.8% of the seats (303 seats)
In 2024, the BJP gained 36.6% of the votes cast and 44.2% of the seats (240 seats)

The BJP popular vote, therefore, remained actually quite stable. This suggests that the opposition parties were more effective, compared with the previous two elections, in avoiding competition amongst themselves that would have split the anti-Modi vote.

There are also two other ways of looking at this. On one hand, Modi was never as invincible as his supporters might have believed. The vagaries of the first-past-the-post electoral system boosted the number of seats disproportionately compared with the overall vote, (as it tends to do for every winning party in every country that the system is adopted) and particularly so in the 2014 and 2019 elections. The other way of looking at it, is to point out that despite the anti-incumbent sentiments that often build after a prolonged period that a party has been in power, it is notable that the popular vote for BJP in 2024 was only marginally lower than 2019 and still higher than 2014.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Interesting to look at the vote share for the BJP:

In 2014, the BJP gained 31.0% of the votes cast and 51.9% of the seats (282 seats)
In 2019, the BJP gained 37.3% of the votes cast and 55.8% of the seats (303 seats)
In 2024, the BJP gained 36.6% of the votes cast and 44.2% of the seats (240 seats)

The BJP popular vote, therefore, remained actually quite stable. This suggests that the opposition parties were more effective, compared with the previous two elections, in avoiding competition amongst themselves that would have split the anti-Modi vote.

There are also two other ways of looking at this. On one hand, Modi was never as invincible as his supporters might have believed. The vagaries of the first-past-the-post electoral system boosted the number of seats disproportionately compared with the overall vote, (as it tends to do for every winning party in every country that the system is adopted) and particularly so in the 2014 and 2019 elections. The other way of looking at it, is to point out that despite the anti-incumbent sentiments that often build after a prolonged period that a party has been in power, it is notable that the popular vote for BJP in 2024 was only marginally lower than 2019 and still higher than 2014.

They applied divide and rule policy and carved out new factions from Shiv Sena and other parties alongwith using BSP as vote dividing force but may be India Alliance was better prepared for it and thus outfoxed them completely this once.

 

[JaDed]

Interesting to look at the vote share for the BJP:

In 2014, the BJP gained 31.0% of the votes cast and 51.9% of the seats (282 seats)
In 2019, the BJP gained 37.3% of the votes cast and 55.8% of the seats (303 seats)
In 2024, the BJP gained 36.6% of the votes cast and 44.2% of the seats (240 seats)

The BJP popular vote, therefore, remained actually quite stable. This suggests that the opposition parties were more effective, compared with the previous two elections, in avoiding competition amongst themselves that would have split the anti-Modi vote.

There are also two other ways of looking at this. On one hand, Modi was never as invincible as his supporters might have believed. The vagaries of the first-past-the-post electoral system boosted the number of seats disproportionately compared with the overall vote, (as it tends to do for every winning party in every country that the system is adopted) and particularly so in the 2014 and 2019 elections. The other way of looking at it, is to point out that despite the anti-incumbent sentiments that often build after a prolonged period that a party has been in power, it is notable that the popular vote for BJP in 2024 was only marginally lower than 2019 and still higher than 2014.

One can also see it like how the entire opposition had to form an alliance and beat them, similar to Imran Khan vs others.

 

[JaDed]

They applied divide and rule policy and carved out new factions from Shiv Sena and other parties alongwith using BSP as vote dividing force but may be India Alliance was better prepared for it and thus outfoxed them completely this once.

Shiv Sena had predominantly been a BJP ally, yes it was stupid of them to have carved out another Sena, but I can assure your all Senas are predominantly Hindutva oriented at its core.

NCP is different , their core is corruption and power.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Shiv Sena had predominantly been a BJP ally, yes it was stupid of them to have carved out another Sena, but I can assure your all Senas are predominantly Hindutva oriented at its core.

NCP is different , their core is corruption and power.

Yep there is a perfect punjabi verse that describe BJP's stupidity of picking fights with everyone just to rue later. But not posting as many of us wont be able to read

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Yep there is a perfect punjabi verse that describe BJP's stupidity of picking fights with everyone just to rue later. But not posting as many of us wont be able to read

It reads like this "Kuch shehar de log vi zalam sn Kuch sanno maran da shauq ve se"

To those who could comprehend

 

[Red-Indian]

Interesting to look at the vote share for the BJP:

In 2014, the BJP gained 31.0% of the votes cast and 51.9% of the seats (282 seats)
In 2019, the BJP gained 37.3% of the votes cast and 55.8% of the seats (303 seats)
In 2024, the BJP gained 36.6% of the votes cast and 44.2% of the seats (240 seats)

The BJP popular vote, therefore, remained actually quite stable. This suggests that the opposition parties were more effective, compared with the previous two elections, in avoiding competition amongst themselves that would have split the anti-Modi vote.

There are also two other ways of looking at this. On one hand, Modi was never as invincible as his supporters might have believed. The vagaries of the first-past-the-post electoral system boosted the number of seats disproportionately compared with the overall vote, (as it tends to do for every winning party in every country that the system is adopted) and particularly so in the 2014 and 2019 elections. The other way of looking at it, is to point out that despite the anti-incumbent sentiments that often build after a prolonged period that a party has been in power, it is notable that the popular vote for BJP in 2024 was only marginally lower than 2019 and still higher than 2014.

Excuse the long post but given the couple of days since the result and after reading and listening to a bunch of perspectives, I think a more nuanced analysis is now possible.

What you've articulated is a fair view from the outside. I would say however that it's a bit superficial from an Indian perspective. A common mistake a lot of outsiders and even Indians make is to consciously or unconsciously treat the Indian voting public as a monolith and look for national narratives when the explanations for seismic movements like these are usually at a more local/regional level.

While on the surface, the BJP's national voteshare remained at more or less the same level, it's composition changed significantly.
As an illustration, it's voteshare in UP fell from ~50% to ~44% while it's share in Tamil Nadu went up from ~3% to ~11%.
The first loss cost it 30 seats. The second gained it no seats.

I know the likes of @cricketjoshila and @CricketCartoons will disagree with me but I think where BJP has failed is the non-Hindutva narrative. The Hindutva narrative is intact and will continue to win the BJP it's say 20-25% voteshare nationally in various proportions across the states - stronger in the North which takes religion more as a voting identity and weaker in the South which doesn't. In fact, it may even have strengthened a bit - I say this anecdotally...I don't have actual evidence but the family WhatsApp groups in my and my friends' Southern families show an increasing muscular Hindutva narrative openly discussed which was never the case before.

However, the failure I think has come from the dissonance between the "Booming superpower India" narrative and the ground level day-to-day job, inflation etc. issues especially in underdeveloped regions. You just have to look at the HDI and other economic indicators of the constituencies that the BJP lost in UP - strong dominated by economically backward groups like Muslims, Dalits etc.

Overall a key point I would postulate is that Indian politics is going increasingly regional. The entire opposition (including the Congress which is now even internally a collection of regional parties) is local/regional. BJP is now the only national party but needs to find a way to fight at a regional level and not just rely on the national Hindutva and "Shining India" narrative.

 

[MP2011]

NCP is different , their core is corruption and power.

Yeah, the Ajit Pawar led NCP faction is not corrupt now since they joined feku.

 

[MP2011]

One can also see it like how the entire opposition had to form an alliance and beat them, similar to Imran Khan vs others.

Do I need to remind you how much government machinery (including ECI) ganged up against opposition despite 2024 LS elections was a 'done deal'?

 

[MP2011]

​

 

[MP2011]

 

[MP2011]

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Modi has been ruthlessly trashed by global media.

John Oliver piece has gone viral as have many others.

Baba Bulldozer song by BJP supporters about Yogi, with translated lyrics is going viral and eliciting laughing emojis.

Rumours are Obama has called Modi and asked to be referred to as 'aap' again rather than 'tum'

 

[cricketjoshila]

Article 48 was created to cater to hindu sentiments. It has to be amended.

Lol. Then remove Mahatma Gandhi as Father of the Nation as well. Because Article 40-48 are kept in the constitution to promote Gandhian principles.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Modi is going to take oath on Saturday for a third time as PM.

Some say BJP has managed to get support of another 10 MPs.

So NDA may actually be 303 now.

RSS chief is meeting Modi today, seems BJP has realised how much it needs the RSS and its a return to hindutva politics.


Rest people can post memes and think Modi is gone.

 

[cricketjoshila]

For BJP it literally was Chicken came home to roost scenario as they didn't loss the election in adversary constituencies but in their own backyard of UP aka BJP's impregnable fort. As explained nicely also in the video below:

You can feel happy by watching YouTube videos. Truth is Modi will be PM again and Hindutva will continue.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Lol. Then remove Mahatma Gandhi as Father of the Nation as well. Because Article 40-48 are kept in the constitution to promote Gandhian principles.

Congress themselves don't use Gandhi for elections. They were holding Ambedkar photos throughout the campaign. Not Nehru, Indira, Rajiv or anyone the congressi lapdop media and distorians had heaped tributes on. Their own icons have fallen from public imagination.

Ambedkar is the daddy of all parties. All seek votes in his name.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Shiv Sena had predominantly been a BJP ally, yes it was stupid of them to have carved out another Sena, but I can assure your all Senas are predominantly Hindutva oriented at its core.

NCP is different , their core is corruption and power.

Actually Shinde did well. Won 7 out of 15.

Uddhav won 9 out of 21.

It will only take one Maratha-Muslim issue to evaporate Uddhavs vote bank.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Do I need to remind you how much government machinery (including ECI) ganged up against opposition despite 2024 LS elections was a 'done deal'?

If ECI ganged up against the opposition, BJP would not have lost seats.

You know how state machinery is used to win elections? Come to bengal and see once.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Modi is going to take oath on Saturday for a third time as PM.

Some say BJP has managed to get support of another 10 MPs.

So NDA may actually be 303 now.

RSS chief is meeting Modi today, seems BJP has realised how much it needs the RSS and its a return to hindutva politics.


Rest people can post memes and think Modi is gone.

There is money in the anti Modi market. During elections I did an experiment and used AI generated images mocking Modi, and they sold like hot cakes. This market segment consists of people who cannot bear the sight of Modi, but follow his every step (like you keep pressing the tooth which is paining, to get more pleasure from the pain), and are hungry for content which gives them comfort.

There is not much money in the pro Modi market.

 

[MP2011]

If ECI ganged up against the opposition, BJP would not have lost seats.

You know how state machinery is used to win elections? Come to bengal and see once.

I know TMC is no saint when it comes to being biased and heavy handed while governing

However, I know it for a fact how partisan the union government and the institutions like ECI, ED and CBI have been.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

But since you say your religious freedom means you allowed 4 wives, it means you want yourself to be governed by Sharia?No?

Lol. This is the type of response you get for posting long, well thought out arguments. @Stewie you certainly have more patience than me for wasting time debating with brick walls.

 

[Ahmed216]

You can feel happy by watching YouTube videos. Truth is Modi will be PM again and Hindutva will continue.

You seem to be obsessed with Hindutva. but what is it? Is it about Hindu supremacy? Does hatred and oppression towards minorites mean Hindutva?
What is it that Modi promises?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

There is money in the anti Modi market. During elections I did an experiment and used AI generated images mocking Modi, and they sold like hot cakes. This market segment consists of people who cannot bear the sight of Modi, but follow his every step (like you keep pressing the tooth which is paining, to get more pleasure from the pain), and are hungry for content which gives them comfort.

There is not much money in the pro Modi market.

Please share some of your work here bro

 

[Champ_Pal]

View attachment 144262

Rahul baba can enjoy the view again sitting in opposition.

 

[Champ_Pal]

You seem to be obsessed with Hindutva. but what is it? Is it about Hindu supremacy? Does hatred and oppression towards minorites mean Hindutva?
What is it that Modi promises?

Hindutva does not mean Hinduism as a religion. It encompasses the history of entire Indian civilization. Hindutva definitely opposes cults and views that do not prioritize India first.

The man who coined the word Hindutva was Savarkar who was an Atheist. He is a cultural Hindu who stressed for the unity of Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists. All the cults and philosophies that originated in India. He was a strong opponent of Caste system.

Hindutva is not same as Hindu religion. Savarkar did not believe in any God or Gods. But Congress and Left still tries to split the society on caste lines and ask for votes instead of working to eradicate caste system completely. Typical leftist strategy.

Lastly, Hindutva does not mean kicking out minorities from India. It is a country first ideology. Nation comes before religion or caste or any other personal identity. This is where some Muslims take exception and consider Hindutva as an oppressive weapon.

Western media outlets constantly parrot the narrative that Hindutva politics means kicking out everyone out of India except Hindus. They paint Savarkar as some kind of religion based Hitler who wanted to commit genocide against Muslims in India.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

You can feel happy by watching YouTube videos. Truth is Modi will be PM again and Hindutva will continue.

Will it continue in Ayodhya?

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Good to know that this bigot will be kept under check. Absolutely abominable character.
I salute the people of India who voted against him

Exactly! Get your popcorn ready. Have you seen his face? All that overconfidence has vanished.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Will it continue in Ayodhya?

Ayodhya is part of India.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Exactly! Get your popcorn ready. Have you seen his face? All that overconfidence has vanished.

How will he live with only 240 seats and being the single largest party?

Fact is, he will remain the PM of India for the next few years and your pretty boy Rahul Baba will watch the proceedings again from opposition.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Ayodhya is part of India.

So why are the andhbhakts calling the people of Ayodhya traitors for not voting for the BJP?

 

[Stewie]

Lol. This is the type of response you get for posting long, well thought out arguments. @Stewie you certainly have more patience than me for wasting time debating with brick walls.

I feel bad for the people he treats, if its is indeed true what he claims.

Indian ignorance is on full display here, driven by the idiotic propaganda of far right wingers in the country. I can understand the sharia nonsense in the west because they don't understand it. But Hindus have been living with Muslims for centuries. They should understand the simple differences between freedom of religion and the sharia law as mode of governance. I really don't think anybody with a half brain can have a hard time delineating the two.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

How will he live with only 240 seats and being the single largest party?

Fact is, he will remain the PM of India for the next few years and your pretty boy Rahul Baba will watch the proceedings again from opposition.

Someone else will replace him. Let this 'mili juli sarkar' run for sometime.

 

[Champ_Pal]

So why are the andhbhakts calling the people of Ayodhya traitors for not voting for the BJP?

Some sore losers might call them traitors. There will always be a section of any party that will find it hard to accept defeat.

What matters is, what the leadership says. None of the BJP leaders called Ayodhya voters as traitors.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Someone else will replace him. Let this 'mili juli sarkar' run for sometime.

They will complete the full term again. Enough time for Rahul to start a family finally.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Please share some of your work here bro

During elections I was angry with modi, and his team for his blunders. Now that he is humbled, I am again sympathetic towards him and will support him.

I had created a twitter account to support Rahul Gandhi, and was sharing AI images.

But that is the contradiction in me. I speak something else when I am with RSS people and something else when with Muslims. Whenever I meet muslims (mostly workers and craftsmen), I become the nicest version of myself, and start discussing about Islam, serving them food and giving them money. When it came to voting, I did not vote for BJP, even though I wanted them to win. Every day I utter Allah hu Akbar ( without any intention or purpose). It is like there is a troll or a djinn inside me who is trolling me the more hardliner I become. I am an emotionally and intellectually unstable person. That is why I don't make friends as I don't want people to get to know me.

Now your post was straight forward, but I went on a tangent. But that is me.

Let me find that thread which I had created may be 12 years ago when I became aware of the troll or djinn inside me.

 

[HalBass9]

Does this mean Modi will have to start a war with Pakistan to claim Pakistan-administered Kashmir in order to win the next general elections? He has done everything he could to try to appease the thirst of Hindutva bigots in his last two terms, yet despite that, he could not secure a majority. Now, since it appears that catering to Hindutva interests is not yielding the expected results, the only options left seem to be initiating a war with Pakistan over Kashmir or line up Muslims against the wall. However, the latter option might not improve India's image, as Hindutva also cares about its superficial image, which is used to conceal their bigotry and hatred towards their fellow countrymen who are Muslims.

 

[MP2011]

Exactly! Get your popcorn ready. Have you seen his face? All that overconfidence has vanished.

Creatures like him thrive on dictatorship, where there is no accountability, no one to question him. That's why he so separately wanted One Nation One Election.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Excuse the long post but given the couple of days since the result and after reading and listening to a bunch of perspectives, I think a more nuanced analysis is now possible.

What you've articulated is a fair view from the outside. I would say however that it's a bit superficial from an Indian perspective. A common mistake a lot of outsiders and even Indians make is to consciously or unconsciously treat the Indian voting public as a monolith and look for national narratives when the explanations for seismic movements like these are usually at a more local/regional level.

While on the surface, the BJP's national voteshare remained at more or less the same level, it's composition changed significantly.
As an illustration, it's voteshare in UP fell from ~50% to ~44% while it's share in Tamil Nadu went up from ~3% to ~11%.
The first loss cost it 30 seats. The second gained it no seats.

I know the likes of @cricketjoshila and @CricketCartoons will disagree with me but I think where BJP has failed is the non-Hindutva narrative. The Hindutva narrative is intact and will continue to win the BJP it's say 20-25% voteshare nationally in various proportions across the states - stronger in the North which takes religion more as a voting identity and weaker in the South which doesn't. In fact, it may even have strengthened a bit - I say this anecdotally...I don't have actual evidence but the family WhatsApp groups in my and my friends' Southern families show an increasing muscular Hindutva narrative openly discussed which was never the case before.

However, the failure I think has come from the dissonance between the "Booming superpower India" narrative and the ground level day-to-day job, inflation etc. issues especially in underdeveloped regions. You just have to look at the HDI and other economic indicators of the constituencies that the BJP lost in UP - strong dominated by economically backward groups like Muslims, Dalits etc.

Overall a key point I would postulate is that Indian politics is going increasingly regional. The entire opposition (including the Congress which is now even internally a collection of regional parties) is local/regional. BJP is now the only national party but needs to find a way to fight at a regional level and not just rely on the national Hindutva and "Shining India" narrative.

BJP moved away from hindutva post 2022, that's what caused the RSS-Bjp rift.

A part of the UCs got away because of BJP apathy to Hindu cause at the large.

The Dalits shifted due to benefits going to Muslims.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Modi is taking oath on Saturday at 6PM.

 

[Varun]

Does this mean Modi will have to start a war with Pakistan to claim Pakistan-administered Kashmir in order to win the next general elections? He has done everything he could to try to appease the thirst of Hindutva bigots in his last two terms, yet despite that, he could not secure a majority. Now, since it appears that catering to Hindutva interests is not yielding the expected results, the only options left seem to be initiating a war with Pakistan over Kashmir or line up Muslims against the wall. However, the latter option might not improve India's image, as Hindutva also cares about its superficial image, which is used to conceal their bigotry and hatred towards their fellow countrymen who are Muslims.

2014 = he is going to be the ultimate saviour!
2019 = okay things aren't that great but he is trying his best!
2024 = uhhh...TINA!

 

[The Bald Eagle]

During elections I was angry with modi, and his team for his blunders. Now that he is humbled, I am again sympathetic towards him and will support him.

I had created a twitter account to support Rahul Gandhi, and was sharing AI images.

But that is the contradiction in me. I speak something else when I am with RSS people and something else when with Muslims. Whenever I meet muslims (mostly workers and craftsmen), I become the nicest version of myself, and start discussing about Islam, serving them food and giving them money. When it came to voting, I did not vote for BJP, even though I wanted them to win. Every day I utter Allah hu Akbar ( without any intention or purpose). It is like there is a troll or a djinn inside me who is trolling me the more hardliner I become. I am an emotionally and intellectually unstable person. That is why I don't make friends as I don't want people to get to know me.

Now your post was straight forward, but I went on a tangent. But that is me.

Let me find that thread which I had created may be 12 years ago when I became aware of the troll or djinn inside me.

Hopefully you will get over it bro, but if you keep supporting BJP and Modi then may be there are more traumas for you to face. As they can't win elections solely on their performance but need a bogus common enemy to be branded as a demon.

 

[MP2011]

2014 = he is going to be the ultimate saviour!
2019 = okay things aren't that great but he is trying his best!
2024 = uhhh...TINA!

2024: Wait till we become Viksit Bharat in 2047

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Hindutva does not mean Hinduism as a religion. It encompasses the history of entire Indian civilization. Hindutva definitely opposes cults and views that do not prioritize India first.

The man who coined the word Hindutva was Savarkar who was an Atheist. He is a cultural Hindu who stressed for the unity of Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists. All the cults and philosophies that originated in India. He was a strong opponent of Caste system.

Hindutva is not same as Hindu religion. Savarkar did not believe in any God or Gods. But Congress and Left still tries to split the society on caste lines and ask for votes instead of working to eradicate caste system completely. Typical leftist strategy.

Lastly, Hindutva does not mean kicking out minorities from India. It is a country first ideology. Nation comes before religion or caste or any other personal identity. This is where some Muslims take exception and consider Hindutva as an oppressive weapon.

Western media outlets constantly parrot the narrative that Hindutva politics means kicking out everyone out of India except Hindus. They paint Savarkar as some kind of religion based Hitler who wanted to commit genocide against Muslims in India.

Then it doesn't mean anything. Might as well call it Bindutva. Or better yet, Buddhism.

 

[Ahmed216]

Hindutva does not mean Hinduism as a religion. It encompasses the history of entire Indian civilization. Hindutva definitely opposes cults and views that do not prioritize India first.

The man who coined the word Hindutva was Savarkar who was an Atheist. He is a cultural Hindu who stressed for the unity of Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhists. All the cults and philosophies that originated in India. He was a strong opponent of Caste system.

Hindutva is not same as Hindu religion. Savarkar did not believe in any God or Gods. But Congress and Left still tries to split the society on caste lines and ask for votes instead of working to eradicate caste system completely. Typical leftist strategy.

Lastly, Hindutva does not mean kicking out minorities from India. It is a country first ideology. Nation comes before religion or caste or any other personal identity. This is where some Muslims take exception and consider Hindutva as an oppressive weapon.

Western media outlets constantly parrot the narrative that Hindutva politics means kicking out everyone out of India except Hindus. They paint Savarkar as some kind of religion based Hitler who wanted to commit genocide against Muslims in India.

Thats one confusing concoction of faith in God ,atheism, cultural superiority complex, xenophobia,nationalism.

Did this man Savarkar draft the constitution of India after independence? Why is he or his ideas even significant?

Modi if he becomes PM will take oath on constitution of India. Is this word Hindutva even mentioned in your constitution?

 

[MP2011]

Thats one confusing concoction of faith in God ,atheism, cultural superiority complex, xenophobia,nationalism.

Did this man Savarkar draft the constitution of India after independence? Why is he or his ideas even significant?

Modi if he becomes PM will take oath on constitution of India. Is this word Hindutva even mentioned in your constitution?

Don't ask uncomfortable questions from bhakts.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Creatures like him thrive on dictatorship, where there is no accountability, no one to question him. That's why he so separately wanted One Nation One Election.

CBN already supports one nation one election. This rule will become a reality.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Thats one confusing concoction of faith in God ,atheism, cultural superiority complex, xenophobia,nationalism.

Did this man Savarkar draft the constitution of India after independence? Why is he or his ideas even significant?

Modi if he becomes PM will take oath on constitution of India. Is this word Hindutva even mentioned in your constitution?

Which nation doesn't take pride in its culture?
Concoction of faith and atheism shows liberalism, not dogma.
What is wrong with nationalism? Compared to all other isms.
Xenophobia, Phobia is irrational fear. A nation which has faced invasions and colonialism will be naturally wary of invasion in any form. That is rational and not a phobia.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

CBN already supports one nation one election. This rule will become a reality.

Mungerilal Ke Haseen Sapne

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Thats one confusing concoction of faith in God ,atheism, cultural superiority complex, xenophobia,nationalism.

Did this man Savarkar draft the constitution of India after independence? Why is he or his ideas even significant?

Modi if he becomes PM will take oath on constitution of India. Is this word Hindutva even mentioned in your constitution?

Modi's wings have been clipped by 'Bharat ki janta'. Now, let's see how high Modi 3.0 can fly. The audience for his 'Mann ki baat' and other melodrama is shrinking, with only a few die-hard 'andhbhakhts' hanging on.

 

[pillionrider]

Modi is taking oath on Saturday at 6PM.

Congrats.

Or as Rishabh Pant once told Mayank Agarwal when Tim Paine came out to bat - Have you ever heard of temporary captain?

In the RSS meeting in Nagpur held following the debacle, Gadkari and Rajnath Singh's names were put forward. It was after this that Fadnavis did his drama of offering to resign lol

This was the basis of my prediction that Modi was not returning as PM but looks like he is going to use his experience being Gautamdas now to reinvent himself as a dasa of the allies.

Modi is not coming back. There is a reason he has been trying to sideline Gadkari for ages now and why he refuses to campaign for Gadkari in Nagpur. He knows that the BJP are not going to get those magical 300 numbers. Then it's down to whether they can scrape through or have to throw money around to buy some support. In this situation, Modi is out and Gadkari who has the RSS' blessings comes in. He even has Adityanath's support (I personally don't like this Bisht guy) and plenty more powerful BJP leaders who can't stand Modi.

I've said this before here many times - despite the bitter experience over the last 10 years, if Modi-Shah-Yogi are out, I might consider voting once again for the BJP under a Gadkari. He is RSS, but not communal. He has oldschool vibes that hark back to a Vajpayee (as PM) and is also the only competent person with power in the current BJP setup.

As for Karma, bro, there is a reason the wheel has been so big in this culture. It always turns. Some NRI s who drive a taxi all day try to mock this line because their interpretation of the wheel turning is something else lol. But it's fact.

The wheel always turns. And it's time to run full circle.

New prediction - Modi will not complete his term. Laugh or cry, do whatever you want. He will also go to jail

 

[HARKS]

Congrats.

Or as Rishabh Pant once told Mayank Agarwal when Tim Paine came out to bat - Have you ever heard of temporary captain?

In the RSS meeting in Nagpur held following the debacle, Gadkari and Rajnath Singh's names were put forward. It was after this that Fadnavis did his drama of offering to resign lol

This was the basis of my prediction that Modi was not returning as PM but looks like he is going to use his experience being Gautamdas now to reinvent himself as a dasa of the allies.



New prediction - Modi will not complete his term. Laugh or cry, do whatever you want. He will also go to jail

Everybody here knows your hatred towards Him and BJP and bias in your predictions but are seriously considering Congress alliance are capable of ruling India easily.yadav, didi, pappu, Stailn sodalai and all other lackeys will push each in diffrent directions and finally in 1 or 2 years we will reelection again . There only uniting factor is hatred for modi other than that they don't have any common factor and capable people to execute reforms.
Guys like Chidbram who mocked our UPI system and AK anothny destroyed indian defence industry by not doing anything will mostly come

 

[pillionrider]

Everybody here knows your hatred towards Him and BJP and bias in your predictions but are seriously considering Congress alliance are capable of ruling India easily.yadav, didi, pappu, Stailn sodalai and all other lackeys will push each in diffrent directions and finally in 1 or 2 years we will reelection again . There only uniting factor is hatred for modi other than that they don't have any common factor and capable people to execute reforms.
Guys like Chidbram who mocked our UPI system and AK anothny destroyed indian defence industry by not doing anything will mostly come

Did you deliberately type him with a capital H, or did the inner bhakti inside you let slip that one

 

[JaDed]

I feel bad for the people he treats, if its is indeed true what he claims.

Indian ignorance is on full display here, driven by the idiotic propaganda of far right wingers in the country. I can understand the sharia nonsense in the west because they don't understand it. But Hindus have been living with Muslims for centuries. They should understand the simple differences between freedom of religion and the sharia law as mode of governance. I really don't think anybody with a half brain can have a hard time delineating the two.

Every faith will have a bias toward their own, maybe far right Hindus wouldn't even had brought the Muslim
personal law issue as a narrative if Nehru hadn’t reformed Hindu laws to his own agenda(which was right).

The idea of appeasement will hurt everyone, instead there can be reformation of every religion through one uniform personal law.

Hindu laws before Congress reformed them were backward according to me but i notice you don’t have issues with Muslim personal laws , which is what @CricketCartoons says , Muslims are more faithful to their faith than majority Hindus would be.

This is also why Javed Akhtar once said:

“In 1975 I showed a comedy scene in a temple. Today I won’t. But even in 1975, I wouldn’t have shown a scene in a mosque because that level of intolerance was there. Now the other one is matching it,”

 

[Stewie]

Every faith will have a bias toward their own, maybe far right Hindus wouldn't even had brought the Muslim
personal law issue as a narrative if Nehru hadn’t reformed Hindu laws to his own agenda(which was right).

The idea of appeasement will hurt everyone, instead there can be reformation of every religion through one uniform personal law.

Hindu laws before Congress reformed them were backward according to me but i notice you don’t have issues with Muslim personal laws , which is what @CricketCartoons says , Muslims are more faithful to their faith than majority Hindus would be.

This is also why Javed Akhtar once said:

“In 1975 I showed a comedy scene in a temple. Today I won’t. But even in 1975, I wouldn’t have shown a scene in a mosque because that level of intolerance was there. Now the other one is matching it,”

I dont think its my place to pass judgment on any of them. I think you are probably still not understanding my take on this whole thing. I am not in favor of or against religious laws. I also may have provided justification for some Islamic inheritance law and such but I am no legal expert to pass judgment on any of this stuff.

I am just giving you a counterpoint to the logic used for the so called UCC. But I appreciate the fact you acknowledged the cow slaughter ban would be hypocritical even though you oppose slaughter of animals.

I will reiterate, my contention is that all laws are derived from religions. so using the concept of UCC with disparate, distinct and unique subsections within the populace, its a tough ask and you will end up treating one or another unfairly at some point.

I am not entirely sure how things have historically been done in India and why and how do others feel Muslims were appeased. I don't live there so I cannot speak to that part. Maybe you can help explain that part.

 

[JaDed]

I dont think its my place to pass judgment on any of them. I think you are probably still not understanding my take on this whole thing. I am not in favor of or against religious laws. I also may have provided justification for some Islamic inheritance law and such but I am no legal expert to pass judgment on any of this stuff.

I am just giving you a counterpoint to the logic used for the so called UCC. But I appreciate the fact you acknowledged the cow slaughter ban would be hypocritical even though you oppose slaughter of animals.

I will reiterate, my contention is that all laws are derived from religions. so using the concept of UCC with disparate, distinct and unique subsections within the populace, its a tough ask and you will end up treating one or another unfairly at some point.

I am not entirely sure how things have historically been done in India and why and how do others feel Muslims were appeased. I don't live there so I cannot speak to that part. Maybe you can help explain that part.

The last part is only because Muslim personal laws were allowed to continue without reforms but Hindu codes were reformed.

Nehru and Rajiv Gandhi went out of their way on two occasions causing the discrepancy or appeasement, thereby also giving rise to BJP.(During Shah Bano case )

I agree UCC will have flavour of the culture it’s part of but along same lines Hindu laws were modified(thank God) and majority accepted the change.

 

[HalBass9]

Every faith will have a bias toward their own, maybe far right Hindus wouldn't even had brought the Muslim
personal law issue as a narrative if Nehru hadn’t reformed Hindu laws to his own agenda(which was right).

The idea of appeasement will hurt everyone, instead there can be reformation of every religion through one uniform personal law.

Hindu laws before Congress reformed them were backward according to me but i notice you don’t have issues with Muslim personal laws , which is what @CricketCartoons says , Muslims are more faithful to their faith than majority Hindus would be.

This is also why Javed Akhtar once said:

“In 1975 I showed a comedy scene in a temple. Today I won’t. But even in 1975, I wouldn’t have shown a scene in a mosque because that level of intolerance was there. Now the other one is matching it,”

I, personally, do not perceive this as intolerance, but rather as a demonstration of respect for their beliefs. Should the majority of society find it offensive, it becomes imperative to refrain from such actions. There exist alternative methods to engage in discussions regarding religious disagreements.

 

[JaDed]

I, personally, do not perceive this as intolerance, but rather as a demonstration of respect for their beliefs. Should the majority of society find it offensive, it becomes imperative to refrain from such actions. There exist alternative methods to engage in discussions regarding religious disagreements.

I want to believe that is true but I’m on the border of this due to abortion , I do believe it should be women’s choice but I’m sure most religions will find it offensive.

 

[Stewie]

The last part is only because Muslim personal laws were allowed to continue without reforms but Hindu codes were reformed.

Nehru and Rajiv Gandhi went out of their way on two occasions causing the discrepancy or appeasement, thereby also giving rise to BJP.(During Shah Bano case )

I agree UCC will have flavour of the culture it’s part of but along same lines Hindu laws were modified(thank God) and majority accepted the change.

yaar I don't know how much you know about Islam but I suspect when you use the term "reform" or "reformation" you are talking about stuff that simply cannot happen with Islam.

Unlike Hinduism, Islam has a very very streamlined, documented, accepted and defended framework for how a Muslim should live his/her life, Its codified in the books. Quran, Fiqh, etc. You simply cannot go about making earth shattering changes to it. That's just how it is.

I feel what can be done is to allow individual rights/freedoms in light of the this codified framework as long as they do not go entirely against or conflict with other laws for Muslims. For instance, if there is a marriage law, inheritance stuff, etc if it does not hurt other communities or non Muslims, use it to apply only on Muslims. I still don't see how that appeases them. That was my question. You said Hindu laws were "reformed", how were they reformed or why was there a need for it?

Once again, its a very very tough ask and a fine line. Unfortunately, if people in the land are used to be treated a certain way for years and years and all of a sudden you decide to take that away from them, yes they will cry about it.


In Pakistan, we have sunnis and shiites and for civil and family cases, they are both handled in light of their sect's prescribed laws. I just thought I should mention that here.