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[PICTURES/VIDEOS] What now for Babar Azam?

gazza619 said:
Big hundreds, small hundreds, teeny hundreds, weeny hundreds, karachi hundreds, sydney hundreds!!!🤣

The fact of the matter is that Khawaja has 18 hundreds in international cricket and Babar has 31!!!

Nice try though.
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This conversation is obviously about test cricket 😭😭.

Khawaja only played 40 odi's because his competiton was Travis head, David Warner and Aaron finch and by the time these guys retired or became perma members khawaja was 38.

If babar's had these guys as his competitors he would never have seen the light of day
 
mominsaigol said:
This conversation is obviously about test cricket 😭😭.

Khawaja only played 40 odi's because his competiton was Travis head, David Warner and Aaron finch and by the time these guys retired or became perma members khawaja was 38.

If babar's had these guys as his competitors he would never have seen the light of day
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I take issue with you making light of King Babar's accomplishments.

Correct your ways and come into the fold!

<tongue firmly in cheek>
 
rpant_gabba said:
I take issue with you making light of King Babar's accomplishments.

Correct your ways and come into the fold!

<tongue firmly in cheek>
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No one is making light of anything. Babar from 2019-2021 was a slightly better odi batter then Joe root even. He outperformed him in English conditons and overall was a solid no 3.

Even in 2021, irrespective of the excuses made, Smashing India with bumrah for a 10 wicket win Is an achievement.

However a players career cannot just be analysed based of a small period, because by this logic Steve Smith would be a better odi batter then kohli.

Steve smith in 2015 is > any era kohli as an odi batsmen by achievements alone considering the fact that he smoked Pakistan, India and NZ in a qf, sf and final and more or less single handedly won an entire cup for his country which hardly any player in its history has done.

However after 2015 his odi career fell off hard. From 2016-2021 he has some good knocks like a 62 ball 100 vs India in a side featuring bumrah but otherwise he's been bang average and would never make it into an atg odi 11 while kohli will come in at no 3.

2022-2025 babar is a joke batsmen, end of story and he's only 30. If he continues at this rate then by the time he's retiring at age 38 to 39 fans will remember him as a joke batsmen.

He has a few more years to turn it around so let's see.
 
gazza619 said:
there are no ifs and buts.

If Asif Ali was made captain as your friend @Rana wanted, Pakistan would have been world lumber one in T20s.
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You're absolutely crazy to think babar can get into the aussie side if his competitors were Steve smith, David Warner, Aaron finch and Travis head.

In 2015 the competiton was so stiff to the point that even Head was struggling to get into the team
 
mominsaigol said:
This conversation is obviously about test cricket 😭😭.
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Oh acha. Thats why your shagird was talking about the Hundred. How convenient

This convo is not about test cricket or white ball. This convo is about who is as a whole a superior cricketer.
 
mominsaigol said:
if his competitors were
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again an if.

My friend stop using the ifs and buts. And talk about achievements.

What if I say that if Khawaja had not migrated to Australia and went through Pakistan’s domestic system, he would have never ever made it to Pakistan team?

But I will not come up with these silly narratives.
 
gazza619 said:
again an if.

My friend stop using the ifs and buts. And talk about achievements.

What if I say that if Khawaja had not migrated to Australia and went through Pakistan’s domestic system, he would have never ever made it to Pakistan team?

But I will not come up with these silly narratives.
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That's totally irrelevant.

You're claiming babar would be a front runner when theirs evidence as to why smith is superior 🤣🤣
 
Rana said:
Soch lai bhai...

Zubaan di hai, mukar ne nahi doonga
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Tag me the day jake does something substantial in international cricket against top tier teams like nz,eng,sa or india.
League bashing or minnow bashing cant be used to judge a player.
People thought rizbar are world class but now all know they were just certified minnow bashers.
Till date jake has done nothing in internationals bar a 40 odd against a 2nd string windies bowling lineup.
So tag me the day he does anything in internationals till then he is rubbish just like rizbar,haris etc.
 
jamie smith fan said:
League bashing or minnow bashing cant be used to judge a player
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yeah no thats not necessarily true.

You can prove that its incorrect to judge league performances when the players you rate internationally pull off the same sort of things guys like JFM do. They wont do it because they dont have the ability he does. You will see this with time.
 
Rana said:
Imagine trying to defend Babar on the morning when he just went and gave easy catching practice to 3rd slip against NZ's 5th/6th choice seamer.
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Imagine being a die hard supporter of future captain Asif Ali, future sumo wrestler Azam Khan and future fixer Sharjeel Khan.
 
gazza619 said:
Imagine being a die hard supporter of future captain Asif Ali, future sumo wrestler Azam Khan and future fixer Sharjeel Khan.
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Yeah imagine being a supporter of such players in T20 and being chastised for it?

Its not me who claimed 'the same leagues that will hire Asif Ali and Sharjeel will also hire Imam ul Haq'. Or was that you?
 
Who are the players u think I rate in internationals??
Rana said:
yeah no thats not necessarily true.

You can prove that its incorrect to judge league performances when the players you rate internationally pull off the same sort of things guys like JFM do. They wont do it because they dont have the ability he does. You will see this with time.
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Rana said:
yeah no thats not necessarily true.

You can prove that its incorrect to judge league performances when the players you rate internationally pull off the same sort of things guys like JFM do. They wont do it because they dont have the ability he does. You will see this with time.
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Is this the best you could come up with? You really do hit like a featherweight. It's left me wondering what's more baby soft here, this response or Babar's attempt to hit bowlers out of the ground :unsure:

I have given you 10 reasons why Babar is inferior but you have failed to address most of them because you are lost and deluded.

Also, you haven't come up with an argument of your own to prove why Babar > Khawaja, as it's beyond obvious that this is what you believe since you are a part of the Babar cult.

gazza619 said:
This clearly shows your lack of understanding of the game. Buddy you spent an entire day to come with this? I will tear apart the rest of your post tomorrow. Night night.
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Yes we all know you got shook and had to call it an early one. To recap, the above was to said in response to:

topspin said:
Facing the new ball is undoubtedly the hardest job for a batsman in test cricket.
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So tell me, since you think you know better, why does this show my "lack of understanding of the game"?

gazza619 said:
Babar has no power game and Khawaja does. Lets talk some numbers here. Do you even know Babar has a higher strike rate than Khawaja in ODIs. I am not even going to mention batting average. Khawaja is unfortunate he plays for Australia and yet in 140+ T20s he has played across domestic, international and IPL he still strikes at about the same rate as Babar.

What an absolute pack of nonsense. I will give you benefit of the doubt as when you posted it was still April fools day.
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gazza619 said:
Big hundreds, small hundreds, teeny hundreds, weeny hundreds, karachi hundreds, sydney hundreds!!!🤣

The fact of the matter is that Khawaja has 18 hundreds in international cricket and Babar has 31!!!

Nice try though.
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gazza619 said:
Joke of the week!!! 🤣🤣🤣

Khawaja has 45 sixes in international cricket. Babar has 162!!!!
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Everybody knows Babar's stats are heavily inflated by minnow bashing and from bashing second/third string bowling attacks. This is the reason why you have failed to produce a list of stand out innings played by him because we all know he doesn't have any. As I mentioned before, Babar has not produced a single white ball innings that can match Khawaja's 2 x ODI tons against a world class Indian bowling attack featuring Bumrah, Shami, Kuldeep Yadav and Jadeja. That's why there's no doubt that if you were to put Khawaja in this mediocre Pakistan team, he would have statistically achieved more than Babar in his white ball career.

Please find me just one white ball ODI hundred against a world class bowling attack, which is as good or better than any of the two produced by Khawaja in his short white ball career. Whatever you do, do not embarrass yourself by bringing up hundreds from depleted/minnow bowling attacks.

gazza619 said:
this one really made laugh. Simon Doull who? Shall I tell you what Tanveer Ahmed says? Lol

When you quote people make sure it is not a nobody.
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Please explain how Simon Doull is a "nobody"?

To summarise your comeback, feeble, poorly written and incoherent.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
He has played a few across formats and in bilaterals but not in a very long time
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can you name point out those innings? with context?
I ve followed all matches and recall any. unless you count that flat track 196 against Australia which only helped build his brand rather getting us a win against Australia
 
ayemgilani86 said:
can you name point out those innings? with context?
I ve followed all matches and recall any. unless you count that flat track 196 against Australia which only helped build his brand rather getting us a win against Australia
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Babar’s best Test innings was the one when he took Dale Steyn to the cleaners.

I rate that as his best innings. I don’t care if it didn’t result in a Pakistan win. That was brilliant batting.
 
Rana said:
Babar’s best Test innings was the one when he took Dale Steyn to the cleaners.

I rate that as his best innings. I don’t care if it didn’t result in a Pakistan win. That was brilliant batting.
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how about some more context then, not saying that was not an aesthically pleasing innings, it came against an aging Dale Steyn against the old ball and a Dale Steyn that just returned form injury and retired from tests shortly after. It was not a backs against the wall defiant innings. Was just an innings with beautiful cover drives. So for all the bobsy fans...was that all you got? forget match winning or match saving innings since thats pretty established he hasnt played any besides the NZ WC match in 2019. How about innings where he has played brilliantly and got the team close or has been the only player to play well while the rest of the team struggled?
 
ayemgilani86 said:
how about some more context then, not saying that was not an aesthically pleasing innings, it came against an aging Dale Steyn against the old ball and a Dale Steyn that just returned form injury and retired from tests shortly after. It was not a backs against the wall defiant innings. Was just an innings with beautiful cover drives. So for all the bobsy fans...was that all you got? forget match winning or match saving innings since thats pretty established he hasnt played any besides the NZ WC match in 2019. How about innings where he has played brilliantly and got the team close or has been the only player to play well while the rest of the team struggled?
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Look man I ain’t no Bobsy the king fan. I hate what he has become through undeserved power, or the power he has used for his personal benefit by putting aside the best interests of Pakistan cricket.

I’m just calling it as it is. Yes Dale Steyn was at the twilight of his career, but I have always maintained that the assault lead by Babar that day may have been the final tipping point of his career where he realised that his time is truly up now. A vintage, prime Steyn would never have been manhandled like that by the top batters of the world, let alone a guy who is just emerging on to the scene. It was just something Babar did that day and you can’t take it away from him. It’s the only time in his career where he looked like the real deal, or what you would hope that he should become as a batter.

Besides this, and as you have rightly pointed out…no other innings comes to mind where I can honestly share and say this is the innings of a supreme batter.
 
Kianig89 said:
The apathy for Babar by some people is unjustifiable, look at the players around him
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Andy Flower managed an average of 51 odd in Tests playing in the 90's (toughest era for batsmen), this despite playing for the weakest team in that decade. When you have the tools, you don't depend on other players in your team for your own individual performance.
 
Hitman said:
Andy Flower managed an average of 51 odd in Tests playing in the 90's (toughest era for batsmen), this despite playing for the weakest team in that decade. When you have the tools, you don't depend on other players in your team for your own individual performance.
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Grant Flower Campbell Johnson Heath Olonga , all better players than current Pakistan team
 
Hitman said:
Grant Flower with a batting average of 29, Alistair Campbell with a batting average of 27, Neil Johnson with a batting average of 24, Henry Olonga with a bowling average of 39 were better than current Pakistani players? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
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In that era, that's equivalent to 40 average of today. And Neil johnson was an all rounder.
 
I am in a good mood today, all I am feeling is love for everyone. :ravi

But even in this state, I can't really find positive things to talk about Babar, says a lot really.
 
Kianig89 said:
The apathy for Babar by some people is unjustifiable, look at the players around him
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When you’re the “Number 1” batsman, people expect you to win game for the team, his 50 today was just as useful as Naseem’s from the other game.

If the Number 1 batsman, the king of Pakistan can’t finish off games against NZ B then what should our expectations of him be?
 
YousafTheBeast said:
When you’re the “Number 1” batsman, people expect you to win game for the team, his 50 today was just as useful as Naseem’s from the other game.

If the Number 1 batsman, the king of Pakistan can’t finish off games against NZ B then what should our expectations of him be?
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The problem is Babar fans count his fifties scored @ SR of 80 as match winning knocks and that's their maximum expectation from no. 1 batsman. I am still reminded by some of his fans about 4 fifties he scored in 2023 WC even though 3 resulted in loss
 
zaidihusain said:
The problem is Babar fans count his fifties scored @ SR of 80 as match winning knocks and that's their maximum expectation from no. 1 batsman. I am still reminded by some of his fans about 4 fifties he scored in 2023 WC even though 3 resulted in loss
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I dont get the logic? Ok Babar Azam is not palying as the number 1 batsman but he is delivering atleast as a number 3 batter of the team. Where is the rest of BATTTING LINEUP??
There is no number 1, number 2 , number 4, number 5 or number 6 . Without Babar Azam, the entire line up is basically tail and ugly blind sloggers.
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
I dont get the logic? Ok Babar Azam is not palying as the number 1 batsman but he is delivering atleast as a number 3 batter of the team. Where is the rest of BATTTING LINEUP??
There is no number 1, number 2 , number 4, number 5 or number 6 . Without Babar Azam, the entire line up is basically tail and ugly blind sloggers.
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The way Babar throws his wicket every time after scoring his soft 50 is frustrating and it reflects his irresponsible attitude even after playing for 9 years. Look at the matches played by Babar in comparison with other players, there is huge difference. It's not only this match, Babar has disappointed in many other matches which Pakistan could have won. Same is the case with Imam & Rizwan, even after playing so many matches they never take ownership in any game.

Having said that the youngsters must also take some responsibility as it's an international cricket not a local club cricket.
 
zaidihusain said:
The way Babar throws his wicket every time after scoring his soft 50 is frustrating and it reflects his irresponsible attitude even after playing for 9 years. Look at the matches played by Babar in comparison with other players, there is huge difference. It's not only this match, Babar has disappointed in many other matches which Pakistan could have won. Same is the case with Imam & Rizwan, even after playing so many matches they never take ownership in any game.

Having said that the youngsters must also take some responsibility as it's an international cricket not a local club cricket.
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Without Babar, Pakistan batting doesnt look like crossing 200 even.
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
Without Babar, Pakistan batting doesnt look like crossing 200 even.
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This is another myth creat by Babar's fans, Babar can take rest from 2-3 ODI series and I am sure it won't any difference, in fact team will perform better. Pakistan won ODI series in Australia with minimal performance from Babar and won ODIs series in SA with some really impactful performances from guys like Saim, Salman, Kamran and bowlers. Babar performed well in last ODI series in SA but he is not a match winner. Pakistan recently chased 350+ against SA in Karachi without Babar's contribution
 
I would like to see Babar opening along with Saim. A good contrast of styles could bring a good solid opening partnership. As I have said before, Babar also needs to open in tests. He showed in SA that technically he is our best batsman and most of his issues bar the left arm spin are just poor concentration and soft dismissals. As an opener he would have to concentrate more and that hopefully puts him back in track. In the ODI would like Babar to bat like a guy without a care, and enjoy the game. Too often he looks fearful of failure and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy
 
Its a myth peddled by Babar fans that Pakistan cant score 200 without Babar.

The truth is no matter what Babar scores, it wont result in making the result any different for Pakistan because his runs are scored too slowly to make an impact in the game.

That is all Babar offers at the moment.

A statisticians delight.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Its a myth peddled by Babar fans that Pakistan cant score 200 without Babar.

The truth is no matter what Babar scores, it wont result in making the result any different for Pakistan because his runs are scored too slowly to make an impact in the game.

That is all Babar offers at the moment.

A statisticians delight.
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Here’s the thing with these Pakistan fans though, a 200 total is something to be proud off and a great morale victory. And therefore, Babar Azam has performed well from that perspective. These are our standards these days. 🤡
 
zaidihusain said:
This is another myth creat by Babar's fans, Babar can take rest from 2-3 ODI series and I am sure it won't any difference, in fact team will perform better. Pakistan won ODI series in Australia with minimal performance from Babar and won ODIs series in SA with some really impactful performances from guys like Saim, Salman, Kamran and bowlers. Babar performed well in last ODI series in SA but he is not a match winner. Pakistan recently chased 350+ against SA in Karachi without Babar's contribution
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Anyone who knows me here would be laughing of me being labelled as a Babar Azam fan :ROFLMAO:.
He is not a GOAT or even a great batsman but he is outright the best batsman Pakistan has produced in the last 10 years. Issues of Pakistan cricket are not going to go away by removing Babar Azam. He is the only international class batsman you got, rest are all mindless slogger.
People are jumping up and down about Saim Ayub, but we get stellar debuts every now and then and in Pakistan's case they fizzle out more often than not.

Babar has his issues but without him and Rizwan, Pakistan can safely find its place as ranked 10 in Cricket.
shaz619 said:
Here’s the thing with these Pakistan fans though, a 200 total is something to be proud off and a great morale victory. And therefore, Babar Azam has performed well from that perspective. These are our standards these days. 🤡
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Babar Azam's ascension and fall are not the cause of Pakistan's decline but just a logical output of a system that is completely broken. Most comments just follow the normal trend of Paksitanis just blaming anyone who is in power or top position. Pakistanis are always fighting those in power it seems.

I am no great fan of Pakistani cricket but scapegoating of Babar Azam is just another routine happening executions which Pakistani fans carry out instead of actually addressing the core issues.
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
Anyone who knows me here would be laughing of me being labelled as a Babar Azam fan :ROFLMAO:.
He is not a GOAT or even a great batsman but he is outright the best batsman Pakistan has produced in the last 10 years. Issues of Pakistan cricket are not going to go away by removing Babar Azam. He is the only international class batsman you got, rest are all mindless slogger.
People are jumping up and down about Saim Ayub, but we get stellar debuts every now and then and in Pakistan's case they fizzle out more often than not.

Babar has his issues but without him and Rizwan, Pakistan can safely find its place as ranked 10 in Cricket.

Babar Azam's ascension and fall are not the cause of Pakistan's decline but just a logical output of a system that is completely broken. Most comments just follow the normal trend of Paksitanis just blaming anyone who is in power or top position. Pakistanis are always fighting those in power it seems.

I am no great fan of Pakistani cricket but scapegoating of Babar Azam is just another routine happening executions which Pakistani fans carry out instead of actually addressing the core issues.
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Infact it's a myth that fakhar zaman was inconsistent. Fakhar zaman performs om average 1 in every 3 odi games. It's his t20 inconsistency that people for sone reason equate onto odi.

Fakhar zaman since 2017 was masking how truly weak pakistani batting lineup was and thankfully this got brutally exposed in the early stages of wc 2023 and ct 2025 as pak odi team is useless without fakhar zaman.

Fakhar was extremely consistent in odi which is why Pakistan performance was masked.

That NZ c series in pindi is a 3-2 result for NZ if fakhar hadn't performed and converted it into a 4-1 lead for pk.

Even pre CT, The only game where Pakistan didnt get absolutely butchered and destroyed by NZ, aka the only game you can somewhat claim was a respectable loss was the game where Fakhar Zaman scored 80+ and NZ was on the backfoot for a period of time and it looked like they were going to lose.

It was only after his dismissal that PK collapsed again.

Fakhar Zaman in Odi is > Any era Babar who's filth.

It's thanks to Fakhar Zaman that

A) Pakistan won CT 2017 as before they got thrashed by India, and had lucky drs rain escape from sa and Sri lanka consistently shelling catches a fluky knocks to help them get into semi's.

B) Pakistan utterly dominated bi laterals during Babar's era thanks to his 150 to 180 run scores.

C) Pakistan managed to beat NZ at all in wc 2023 by staying ahead of RR.

Infact despite being a mess in t20, it's thanks to fakhar Pakistan got no 1 rank in 2018 by consistently beating Aus at full strength solely due to Fakhar 80 of 37 something and 91 of 46 against a full strength aussie bowling attack.

Pakistan was woefully poor in 2018 odi bi laterals only because 2018 was Fakhar's worst Odi year and he didn’t tea off in Asia cup or bi laterals during this period.

In the same way they have been woefully poor in 2023 and 2025 in odi since fakhar only played NZ c series and quickly got injured in Asia cup + didn't perform vs India and once again quickly got injured pre ct.

Plus just wasn't around for most of 2023 and 2025 anyway.
 
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mominsaigol said:
Infact it's a myth that fakhar zaman was inconsistent. Fakhar zaman performs om average 1 in every 3 odi games. It's his t20 inconsistency that people for sone reason equate onto odi.

Fakhar zaman since 2017 was masking how truly weak pakistani batting lineup was and thankfully this got brutally exposed in the early stages of wc 2023 and ct 2025 as pak odi team is useless without fakhar zaman.

Fakhar was extremely consistent in odi which is why Pakistan performance was masked.

That NZ c series in pindi is a 3-2 result for NZ if fakhar hadn't performed and converted it into a 4-1 lead for pk.

Even pre CT, The only game where Pakistan didnt get absolutely butchered and destroyed by NZ, aka the only game you can somewhat claim was a respectable loss was the game where Fakhar Zaman scored 80+ and NZ was on the backfoot for a period of time and it looked like they were going to lose.

It was only after his dismissal that PK collapsed again.

Fakhar Zaman in Odi is > Any era Babar who's filth.

It's thanks to Fakhar Zaman that

A) Pakistan won CT 2017 as before they got thrashed by India, and had lucky drs rain escape from sa and Sri lanka consistently shelling catches a fluky knocks to help them get into semi's.

B) Pakistan utterly dominated bi laterals during Babar's era thanks to his 150 to 180 run scores.

C) Pakistan managed to beat NZ at all in wc 2023 by staying ahead of RR.

Infact despite being a mess in t20, it's thanks to fakhar Pakistan got no 1 rank in 2018 by consistently beating Aus at full strength solely due to Fakhar 80 of 37 something and 91 of 46 against a full strength aussie bowling attack.

Pakistan was woefully poor in 2018 odi bi laterals only because 2018 was Fakhar's worst Odi year and he didn’t tea off in Asia cup or bi laterals during this period.

In the same way they have been woefully poor in 2023 and 2025 in odi since fakhar only played NZ c series and quickly got injured in Asia cup + didn't perform vs India and once again quickly got injured pre ct.

Plus just wasn't around for most of 2023 and 2025 anyway.
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Let me make myself clear @Aang_The_last_airbender

Fakhar > Any era Bobby in odi, test and t20. It's PCB's fault since they believe that fakhar zaman isn't a t20 opener and isn't good enough for test cricket.

They destroyed his test career as he stopped played FC as soon as he was dropped from the test team.

Same way they destroyed his t20 career cause they were looking at consistency and not impact since Fakhar’s t20 kmocks vs Aus are > Babar entire t20 career including India t20 2021 game as despite it being his best t20 performance it's still a duo knock and not a solo knock.

Plus besides bumrah, The rest of India's bowling attack as a trio is not superior to Australia trio. The other 2 bowlers are wesker then aus bowlers.

You can use whatever stats you wish, someone like imam or Abdullah opening in test cricket over fakhar is a joke in the same way rizwan and babar opening in t20 cricket over fakhar is a joke
 
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mominsaigol said:
Let me make myself clear @Aang_The_last_airbender

Fakhar > Any era Bobby in odi, test and t20. It's PCB's fault since they believe that fakhar zaman isn't a t20 opener and isn't good enough for test cricket.

They destroyed his test career as he stopped played FC as soon as he was dropped from the test team.

Same way they destroyed his t20 career cause they were looking at consistency and not impact since Fakhar’s t20 kmocks vs Aus are > Babar entire t20 career including India t20 2021 game as despite it being his best t20 performance it's still a duo knock and not a solo knock.

Plus besides bumrah, The rest of India's bowling attack as a trio is not superior to Australia trio. The other 2 bowlers are wesker then aus bowlers.

You can use whatever stats you wish, someone like imam or Abdullah opening in test cricket over fakhar is a joke in the same way rizwan and babar opening in t20 cricket over fakhar is a joke
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I dont know why Fakhar keeps getting dropped either. But, I have only watched him a couple of times.

You need both Fakhar and babar in the team. Babar Azam's comparison should be with the likes of Dravid in ODIs. The stable anchor that teams need.
 
Next WC is in SA and Babar is decent on backfoot as long as he is not trying to hit a six. We should continue with him in ODIs and fans should stop expecting high strike rate match winning knocks from him. He can be useful if he is surrounded by high strike rate batsmen in lineup.

Saim
Aggressive opener
Babar
Salman
Fakhar

We need to rethink about Rizwan's future.
 
Aang_The_last_airbender said:
I dont know why Fakhar keeps getting dropped either. But, I have only watched him a couple of times.

You need both Fakhar and babar in the team. Babar Azam's comparison should be with the likes of Dravid in ODIs. The stable anchor that teams need.
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First and foremost Dravid is not considered an ODI atg and likely wouldn't make it into India's odi atg team. He'd make it into the playing 15 but not the playing 11.

In odi the likes of chanderpaul were better then him. Again he's a good odi batsmen but he's not great by any means.

However the difference is Dravid is either 2nd or 3rd best Asian test batsmen of all time depending on who you believe is better between sunny and Dravid. And he's probably top 10 test batsmen of all time, actually he is top 10 since I'm counting the likes of Jack hobbs, Len Hutton, Don Bradman aka ww1 and ww2 players that would push dravid out of top 10.

Since that era ended, Steve smith is the only test batsmen to have been produced post sachin era that was > Dravid in tests otherwise even today dravid would be voewed as greatly >>>>>>>>>>> root in test cricket.

If you're an ATG in one format then people are more likely to forgive you for other formats, for example Steve smith doesn't get much heat in odi mainly because every Steve smith uses the argument

"Oh but he's just not good in odi, but a goat in tests"

Babar would have zero heat on him if he was a test goat or a t20 goat.

And you're once again living in the past. This is not 2019. On current form Fakhar, and Salman Ali Agha are better odi batters then him and while saim ayub and kamran ghulam have a very small sample size to boot, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that they are > him on current form, Key word CURRENT FORM.

and Lastly Dravid despite not being an ODI ATG, he's still an odi great and a solid batsmen to have in your lineup, he would still make it into India's atg 15 squad, and would easily fit into any teams Squad except for Australia Atg list since Australia has produced the most number of goat odi batsmen from Hayden, Gilly, Warner, ponting, Martyn, Dean Jones, and many more and hence dravid would likely be kept out of the odi 15.

He'd still make it into aus atg test team though assuming Bradman and ww2 players aren't considered.
 
mominsaigol said:
First and foremost Dravid is not considered an ODI atg and likely wouldn't make it into India's odi atg team. He'd make it into the playing 15 but not the playing 11.
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and that's why the any close comparison from Indian Batting line up for Babar is Dravid.
India in its late 90s and early 2000s had the trioka of SRT, Ganguly and Dravid.
Babar is no SRT, neither aggressive enough to be compared to Ganguly.

Pakistan's team just has a dravid/chanderpaul type Babar/Rizwan and an entire bunch of wannabee Shahid Afridis. While the focus is so much on batting, no body is talking about complete wipe out of spin bowling or pacers who don't start huffing and puffing after 3-4 overs in a match.

But let's blame Babar. Iamgine if Pakistani players were allowed in IPL, there would have been entire series of threads about BCCI sabotaging Pakistani players through IPL :P.
 
Babar is playing for his average these days. He either gets out early or right after a 50 yet people try compare him with Kohli.

Has Babar ever single handedly won an important game against a top side? Apart from the 2019 WC game vs NZ and 2021 t20 wc game vs India. Even in those games the bowlers set up the games restricting totals to 240 odd and 150 odd and then Haris Sohail and Muhammad Rizwan supported Babar at the other end.

He has been playing international cricket for a decade with performances against weaker teams in meaningless bilaterals or b and c strength teams. Always goes missing in big games, he needs to put the team first otherwise he will end up down the Ahmed shehzad and Umar akmal route.
 
Probably, not the most popular opinion on this forum at the moment but Babar Azam is by miles and by that I mean distance from South Pole to North Pole miles better batsman the next batsman in Pakistan.

I have said this before it absolutely stuns me that how someone who looks as gifted as Babar with such nice timing, balance and basic technique and temperament looks so limited and meek while batting. Even more so in the last 2 years or so.
 
Local.Dada said:
Probably, not the most popular opinion on this forum at the moment but Babar Azam is by miles and by that I mean distance from South Pole to North Pole miles better batsman the next batsman in Pakistan.

I have said this before it absolutely stuns me that how someone who looks as gifted as Babar with such nice timing, balance and basic technique and temperament looks so limited and meek while batting. Even more so in the last 2 years or so.
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Fakhar vs Babar azam in odi, let's hear it
 
mominsaigol said:
Fakhar vs Babar azam in odi, let's hear it
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Fakhar is an X factor player who will win you a game out of no where. He is considered an elite impact player because he might do it 2-3 out of 10 teams at his peak. Now I would say 1 in 10 times based on age, fitness and form.

You can’t compare the utility of Shahid Afridi with Md Yusuf. Yuvraj and Sachin.Different roles.

Babar’s role is minimum guarantee which is the role of the main batsman/ batsmen in the team. India has Kohli-KL Rahul for that role, Aus has Smith-Labuschagne, Eng has Joe root, Nzl has Mitchell- Williamson.
 
Local.Dada said:
Fakhar is an X factor player who will win you a game out of no where. He is considered an elite impact player because he might do it 2-3 out of 10 teams at his peak. Now I would say 1 in 10 times based on age, fitness and form.

You can’t compare the utility of Shahid Afridi with Md Yusuf. Yuvraj and Sachin.Different roles.

Babar’s role is minimum guarantee which is the role of the main batsman/ batsmen in the team. India has Kohli-KL Rahul for that role, Aus has Smith-Labuschagne, Eng has Joe root, Nzl has Mitchell- Williamson.
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1) It's a total myth. Fakhar has performed 1 in every 3 odi games he's played in compared to Babar who performs once every 2.3 odi games.

However Fakhar has produced X factor knocks while babar has produced soft knocks.

You're equating his t20 knocks to his odi knocks.

2) You can’t compare the utility of Shahid Afridi with Md Yusuf. Yuvraj and Sachin.Different roles.

Lol, yes you can, the answer is Yousaf is obviously better🤣🤣. Afridi is a 23 avg batsmen who has an avg of performing once per 9odi games

Sachin is leagues > Yuvi in all facets, And prime sachin is more aggressive then yuvi in odi cricket lol, again those 6 sixes from broad happened in t20.

Lastly Afridi and Yuvi are different roles because afridi is a no 7 to no 8 batsmen who occasionally got makeshift opening while Yuvi is a middle order batsmen while Sachin and yousaf were openers or top order bats. Both fakhar and Babar play similar roles and can be compared.

A no 3 is not that different from opening in most cases especially if the no 3 has to come in in overs 1 to 4 should the opener get dismissed early.

3) Prime Kohli, Prime Steve Smith were terrific odi batters who would dominate everyone. Smith in prime wasn't a slow starter he was an accelerator and kohli dominated from the get go.

Root, Williamson are different. Both these 2 were brought in at a time where England and NZ batting was very fragile and hence they played the roles that they did. Eventually England and NZ went bazzball galore with the likes of mccullum, Guptil, Roy, Morgan, Hales etc.

However they played in the team mostly due to experience and in Williamson case captaincy as he is a world class captain.

4) Mitchell is not a great batter. Never was, He's an okay batsmen who doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as these guys.


 
mominsaigol said:
Root, Williamson are different. Both these 2 were brought in at a time where England and NZ batting was very fragile and hence they played the roles that they did. Eventually England and NZ went bazzball galore with the likes of mccullum, Guptil, Roy, Morgan, Hales etc.

4) Mitchell is not a great batter. Never was, He's an okay batsmen who doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as these guys.
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And Pakistan’s batting isn’t? 🤔

Bro, Eng and Nzl have aggressive batsmen who adapt that style in white ball but most have great county experience and are proper players. Not tullas. 1-2 exception might exist . Joe root is in there because he has the best technique and temperament and he is the insurance for the team. Similar with Williamson.

Mitchell might be average in the larger scheme of things but how many Pak batsmen who played in the last 3-4 years are better than him?

You think filling players like Usman Khan and that kid who scored T20 100 is the answer? Babar is by far the best technically equipped batsman in Pakistan by some distance: I have seen some of the others.
 
Local.Dada said:
And Pakistan’s batting isn’t? 🤔

Bro, Eng and Nzl have aggressive batsmen who adapt that style in white ball but most have great county experience and are proper players. Not tullas. 1-2 exception might exist . Joe root is in there because he has the best technique and temperament and he is the insurance for the team. Similar with Williamson.

Mitchell might be average in the larger scheme of things but how many Pak batsmen who played in the last 3-4 years are better than him?

You think filling players like Usman Khan and that kid who scored T20 100 is the answer? Babar is by far the best technically equipped batsman in Pakistan by some distance: I have seen some of the others.
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2015 England team is God awful and one of the worst odi sides of all time plain and simple.

Pakistan no longer needs Babar Azam. On current form he isn't better then any of the current unit members
 
FB_IMG_1744287565005.jpg

He might be right, is their any capable batsmen in the middle order.

Chopping and changing with Kamran Ghulam and Saud Shakeel, Agha off late has shown promise.

Pakistan needs a solid middle order
 
Kianig89 said:
View attachment 153109

He might be right, is their any capable batsmen in the middle order.

Chopping and changing with Kamran Ghulam and Saud Shakeel, Agha off late has shown promise.

Pakistan needs a solid middle order
Click to expand...
Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen and Naseem are the only saving grace for Pakistan. We are playing with 4 players every match. Rauf, Nawaz, Saud, Salman and other tullas will take the team to utter mediocrity.
 
Kianig89 said:
View attachment 153109

He might be right, is their any capable batsmen in the middle order.

Chopping and changing with Kamran Ghulam and Saud Shakeel, Agha off late has shown promise.

Pakistan needs a solid middle order
Click to expand...
For the sake of argument, let's suppose that all other players (except Rizwan) in the Pakistan team are worse than those of Uganda. Now tell me, what stops "elite player" Babar from maintaining a strike rate on par with the top batters in the game?

64 (90) chasing 321
78 (83) chasing 345
50 (58) chasing 265 in 42 overs

These are not great knocks where his strike rate was -36, -21 & -19 of what was required.
 
RyanRyan10 said:
For the sake of argument, let's suppose that all other players (except Rizwan) in the Pakistan team are worse than those of Uganda. Now tell me, what stops "elite player" Babar from maintaining a strike rate on par with the top batters in the game?

64 (90) chasing 321
78 (83) chasing 345
50 (58) chasing 265 in 42 overs

These are not great knocks where his strike rate was -36, -21 & -19 of what was required.
Click to expand...

So you want Babar to be ahead of time all the way while others continue to fail, cricket is a team game
 
Kianig89 said:
So you want Babar to be ahead of time all the way while others continue to fail, cricket is a team game
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You are missing the point. I mentioned Babar's best knocks from recent times, highlighting how his strike rate didn't measure up to what was required at those instances. Apart from these, he has failed in every innings. The issue is that Babar's strike rate has consistently fallen short, and his overall career strike rate is lower compared to his contemporaries.
 
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