POTW : burger_uno

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An interesting take on the Javed Miandad vs Steve Waugh debate is this week's winner

Congratulations to [MENTION=140509]burger_uno[/MENTION] for winning POTW


http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...augh-or-Javed-Miandad&p=11135480#post11135480

there is an aussie legend who is in the same league as miandad and that legend is not steve waugh.

border rather than waugh is the aussie equivalent of miandad. and i would rate border ahead of s.w. it was a.b. who singlehandedly flew the flag of aussie side which was in doldrums for most of the 80s after retirement of lillie, marsh and chappel in tandem. the groundwork that a.b. laid contributed to the emergence of the great aussie side of the 90s. due to packer driven player absence, a.b. had to take charge pretty much from the start of his career. from that point on, he continued to perform at a very high level despite inconsistent support from others. unlike a.b, s.w. was a passenger during the early part of his career. s.w's performance went up to the next level when he figured out what it would take to succeed at the highest level. he then put in the hard yards to get there. his task was made easier due to emergence of a number of world class players in the aussie team from late 80's/early 90s. These players, more often than not, put opposition on the backfoot which eased pressure on s.w. s.w. got opportunity to find his feet due to lack of competition for places at that time. more than likely he would not have the same chances had he debuted 10 years later.

i also think s.w's saintly post retirement reputation overlooks some of his dirty deeds. under his captaincy, aussies took sledging to the next ugly level. waugh himself was capable of playing dirty when it suited him. his claiming of the the lara dropped catch at the critical juncture during the famous 1995 series became a huge talking point. the series outcome could have been completely different if lara had lived to fight another day. in comparison, border enjoyed an unblemished reputation and its hard to imagine his team resorting to sledging.

now to miandad, his appearance was game changer for pak. miandad was from the wrong side of the tracks. his approach was different from that of other pakistani batsmen who were more talented but lacked steel. players like zaheer abbas and asif iqbal were easier on the eye but they lacked self belief and killer instinct. county cricket was the ipl of that time and pakistani players played in a manner expected of an english gent because those players wanted county contracts. miandad did not buy that which is why the english cricketing press/establishment did not look too kindly upon him. did not matter to miandad. he played to win and his desire to succeed took his career and the team to next level. obviously having imran in the team was a big plus. together, the two legends put pakistan on pathway to success. their achievements enabled cricket to expand beyond narrow heartland while inspiring the golden generation of the 90s.

as for maindad's career, it is right there with the best - without any blemishes or holes. miandad learnt his cricket on dead/matted karachi wickets where he faced pacers who barely touched 80mph. from there, he had to face the likes of holding, roberts and garner without a helmet. adjustment took time. he also made things difficult by refusing to wear a helmet for the longest time until he got seriously injured during an exhibition in india. he compensated for his lack of performance against w.i. by scoring back to back 100s in w.i. in 1988. this contribution enabled pak to draw a series in w.i. which none of his great batting rivals managed to accomplish. cricket is a team game and individual records only matter when they lead to team success.

i can also understand why indians would downplay miandad's accomplishments. miandad was to india what kohli currently is to pakistan. due to kohli's performances against pakistan, pakistani players have already lost the mental battle when they step on to the field against india. miandad had the similar impact on india. plus unlike kohli, miandad beat india in india in both test as well as odi.

overall miandad had the game to adapt to any situation as demonstrated by his test and odi record. for example, miandad played 21 odis against w.i. in australia while avg 38. around 17 years after debut, miandad scored a run a ball 60 against marshall and amborse in a match where rameez got 100 from 150 balls. miandad topped this by scoring 50 in the next match which resulted in a pak victory. just for illustration, border odi avg against w.i. at home is below 30.

like border, miandad was the mainstay of pakistani line-up in an era where rameez managed to play over 50 test matches while scoring two centuries. but more than his batting, it was his attitude which drove pak cricket to its highest point. players like that come once in a generation and pak cricket will forever be in the debt of the legend.

 

[moghul]

An interesting take on the Javed Miandad vs Steve Waugh debate is this week's winner

Congratulations to [MENTION=140509]burger_uno[/MENTION] for winning POTW


http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...augh-or-Javed-Miandad&p=11135480#post11135480

Very well written , truly deserving POTW, I can't read the whole thing, too long for me but he is absolutely write about Allan Border. I don't think cricketer , probably with the exception of Bradman , had influenced Australian cricket as much as AB did. He saved the Austrian cricket single handedly when all its start left for Cary Packers.

He transferred Australian C team to world beaters. Picked seemingly ordinary cricketers like SW and made them ALGs.

 

[Suleiman]

Perfectly written. This t20 generation doesn’t know how to appreciate the legend that was JM.

People used to compare Sarfraz to Miandad during his 6 month purple patch from 2014-2015 as a “street fighter” cricketer

Not even close.

 

[RajBan]

All good words about Miandad but stereotyping Waugh as dirty to strengthen arguments on behalf of Miandad is not something I agree.

Yes Waugh was dirty on field but Miandad himself has been quite pesky as well. I don't think we should hold their behavior against them when talking about their cricketing contribution. What Waugh incorporated in that Australian team is something that I have not seen in any other team, an unmatched ruthlessness, absolute disregard and destruction of any opposition of quality( The great Pak teams of 90s know this). Even when on deathbed, that team has the mental fortitude to turn it around. The only team that went toe to toe in terms of attitude was Ganguly's India and even then they fall short in terms of results.

We can praise Border if we want , to again show Waugh in grey light but on ground they are two different personalities and paved the success of their team in their own way. Border initiated a process, Taylor continued the transition but is often overlooked, Waugh took the team to pinnacle.

Finally if we really want Waugh's tough dirty attitude (I don't agree with that style) to measure him as an individual then also consider the charity work that he has done which is unmatched by any other cricketer. Its unfair to consider one at the expense of the other.

 

[rhony]

Good post. If one were to compare Miandad to a modern era batsman, Dhoni comes to mind. Far away from the Mumbai Delhi corridor and played to win with nerves of steel. It's hard to find players like them in any team these days.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Well-constructed argument, but a bit coloured by sepia-tinted impressions of the Border years. That team sledged worse than any of Waugh's Australian teams. Border and some of the chaps in that team could get downright nasty out on the field. If anyone is blaming Waugh for encouraging bad behaviour, then they clearly never saw any of Allan Border's teams post 1987.

 

[burger_uno]

thanks for the appreciation.

i did get carried away with length. in my defense, miandad was my idol and that of cricketing mad pakistanis when i was in school much in the same way afridi was during his playing days. most current pakistani fans may not understand but pak team went toe-to-toe with any team in the world during miandad's playing days and for the decade after. that was not the case before miandad. big contributing factor was miandad's attitude demonstrated by lillie incident and by miandad's clutch performances epitomized by his famous six. the batsman that came after miandad were some of the best ever produced by pakistan. it was a pleasure to watch the likes of salim malik, saeed anwer, inzi, ijaz and later moyo just for their playing styles if for nothing else. these batsman may not have produced as many match winning performances as miandad did but on their day, they could take apart any bowling lineup as malik did against australia in 1994 or moyo against walsh/ambrose in their own backyard in 1999. i would put saeed anwer's 180 against india in calcutta in the same category. incidently, saeed anwer also scored 100 in three consecutive test matches against australia. all these great pakistani batsman to a great extent were influenced by miandad.

sadly, pakistani batting cupboard has been bare for the longest time until the development of babar azam who has the potential to be as great as any batsman produced by pakistan. over the last decade, most pakistani batsman have either been tehnically limited or have lacked mental fortitude. others have been leg-side hacks who have tried to model their game on that of afridi. hopefully, babar azam can achieve success and be a role model to the next generation that miandad was.

as for steve waugh, on another thread, i expressed admiration for his tenacity. i saw him getting hammered by wasim and waqar in 1994. he took his punishment without flinching and nearly got a 100 in the process. there is also youtube clip where he is getting a working over by donald after which he went to get a big score. having said that, he was not a saint in his playing days. his claiming of the dropped lara catch caused a huge controversy special since some ex-aussie cricketers claimed that aussie players were walkers and that waugh's action gave a bad name to autralian cricket. also behaviour of players under his captaincy was inexcusable. border may have manged characters like merv hughes but those players stayed in line because aussies used to get hammered by w.i. during border's era and thus were not in a position to talk much. even ashes were competitive under border. by the time waugh took charge, his team was ahead of all others so could shoot their mouth without repercussion with ritche benaud turning a blind eye. their only setback that i can recall happened in india when vvs went into beast mode.

speaking of claiming of dropped catches i am surprised that observers are not making much of stoke's culpability in the recent test series. i recall english commentators like botham expressing borderline racism when rashid latif did something similar in england. i guess stokes is an ipl star so indians dont want to raise the issue too much. not too be glossed over in my view.

 

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[MENTION=140509]burger_uno[/MENTION]

Bro - excellent post but please when posting, make sure you use the correct case for names so miandad should be Miandad and so on

Thanks