Pro-Indian 'Pakistanis'

[KingKhanWC]

Nawaz Sharif lost a lot of credibility with the public when he made pro India statements attacking 'his' own nation..

"“Militant organisations are active. Call them non-state actors, should we allow them to cross the border and kill 150 people in Mumbai?"

This was basically a confirmation of Indian allegation who claim Pakistan has active groups who are ordered to attack India.

Others such as Najam Sethi have also made similar statements attacking Pakistan and praising India.

When I visit Pakistan I never meet such people who hold pro-India views but there seems to be some around esp on internet forums and social media.

I would like to know...

1. Is this a growing phenomenon?

2. Are some Pakistani's self hating and prefer to be part of India?

3. Are such people a threat to national security as they can be recruited?

4. Is this treason?

5. Are they just patriotic Pakistani's who believe they are only speaking the truth?

For me, I can never respect any Pakistani who is pro-Indian at the expense of being negative towards Pakistan.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Got to feel for the poor pakistani liberals, whenever they criticize their state and army, the indian right wing joins them and invalidates their stand by association.

 

[enkidu_]

They're as numerous as the pro-Israel Arabs, and for the same reasons ("democracy" and "freedoms").

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I think there are definitely pro-Indian Pakistanis, but unfortunately for them, the love isn't reciprocated. Proud Modi loving Indians will only see them as useful idiots and that is where the sympathy for friendly Pakistanis ends.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Got to feel for the poor pakistani liberals, whenever they criticize their state and army, the indian right wing joins them and invalidates their stand by association.

Is it liberal defending or being an apologist for human rights abuses?

Liberals in Asia seem to be more right wing than those in Poland.

 

[KingKhanWC]

They're as numerous as the pro-Israel Arabs, and for the same reasons ("democracy" and "freedoms").

But aren't Pakistani's pretty much free in their land? Or do you mean they wants laws such as those in India, gay rights etc?

 

[Pakistanian]

A lot of ethnofascists support india so they can weaken Pakistan and seccede. These types of people are overrepresented on social media.

 

[enkidu_]

But aren't Pakistani's pretty much free in their land? Or do you mean they wants laws such as those in India, gay rights etc?

Yes, the Aman Ki Tamasha mutants probably want legalization of homosexuality and other societal ills to put a civilized stamp on the society, but IMO they're a minority within a minority ("liberals", the majority of whom aren't "pro India"), it's just that they're more vocal than the rest.

 

[Mamoon]

It is number 5.

We are the only true patriots who are enlightened, and thus feel the duty to propagate the truth and spread our wisdom. We shall not balk from our duties even if it does not end well for us. Although we do not appreciate being grouped with the likes of Nawaz Sharif, whose views on this conflict might be appreciable but he cheated the nation and its people by stealing wealth.

In the future, perhaps in 50 years, people will realize that we were right. I hope by then it is not too late.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

5. Are they just patriotic Pakistani's who believe they are only speaking the truth?

There may be those who claim this, and of course it can be true in many cases. But you won't find them supporting India in every position, even when they are getting thrashed by England on the cricket forum then criticising Pakistan team in those threads instead.

True patriots will look to criticise the bad, and give credit for the good, they will suggest solutions rather than whine dismally with no answers other than to praise enemies over and beyond duty.

 

[Bewal Express]

To feel and show they are enlightened they feel they need to show how understanding they are of the Ind view point but as someone has already pointed out, they are seen as useful idiots by the Indians. How many Indians on here or generally speak about the horrors in Kashmir, whilst i have yet to see anyone justify the Mumbai or any other attacks.

 

[IMMY69]

5 = Traitors

 

[pakistan cricket fan]

It is number 5.

We are the only true patriots who are enlightened, and thus feel the duty to propagate the truth and spread our wisdom. We shall not balk from our duties even if it does not end well for us. Although we do not appreciate being grouped with the likes of Nawaz Sharif, whose views on this conflict might be appreciable but he cheated the nation and its people by stealing wealth.

In the future, perhaps in 50 years, people will realize that we were right. I hope by then it is not too late.

So you think that 300 unlegal Indians in Ramzan Sugar Mill did not happend

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

I never subscribe to the idea of labelling people. You can off course make an educated guess about where ppl stand on different issues but you can never completely understand what’s in their hearts. In the end, labelling ppl only ends up in them resenting you. And for the record, there are good Indians and bad Indians, same as there are good Pakistanis and bad Pakistanis. But when we start categorising them, we end up with an environment of hatred and instability.

 

[syed abbas]

Number 5

In Pakistan,whoever questions the role of army in politics and disagrees with state's policy of using militant groups as tool of foreign policy is considered as a traitor.

Liberals in Pakistan are as patriotic as conservatives.Their only "mistake" is that they do not accept the narrative propagated by establishment-and pro-establishment media-about the ideology of Pakistan.Had Jinnah been alive for a few years more,people would have called him traitor too.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Number 5

In Pakistan,whoever questions the role of army in politics and disagrees with state's policy of using militant groups as tool of foreign policy is considered as a traitor.

Liberals in Pakistan are as patriotic as conservatives.Their only "mistake" is that they do not accept the narrative propagated by establishment-and pro-establishment media-about the ideology of Pakistan.Had Jinnah been alive for a few years more,people would have called him traitor too.

They called his sister a traitor. So you are probably right.

 

[Syed1]

It is number 5.

We are the only true patriots who are enlightened, and thus feel the duty to propagate the truth and spread our wisdom. We shall not balk from our duties even if it does not end well for us. Although we do not appreciate being grouped with the likes of Nawaz Sharif, whose views on this conflict might be appreciable but he cheated the nation and its people by stealing wealth.

In the future, perhaps in 50 years, people will realize that we were right. I hope by then it is not too late.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

Then I guess most Pakistanis are scoundrels?

 

[Syed1]

Then I guess most Pakistanis are scoundrels?

Are most Pakistanis spewing filth against Pakistan and then hiding behind the guise of being "most patriotic"?

 

[Yossarian]

One should always be able to criticise any and all aspects of one's own country. Blind patriotism is detrimental in the long run, both for oneself and for the country. However, there are means and ways to do so such that it cannot be used as a propaganda tool by one's foes. For example, one should not criticise the 'people' en masse, or 'the country', or even the government per se, but instead be specific by criticing individuals and their actions, along with providing facts and some forms of solid proof to back it up, and not make generalisations.

Don't be afraid to speak the truth for fear it may be used as a propaganda tool by your foes. Don't stoop down to their level. Show that having the freedom to be critical of one self and aspects of one's own country is a sign of strength and not weakness. That way you also set the agenda rather than letting your foes do so.

Sure, it will be a negative in the short term. But in the long term your country will have established an aura of credibility, and when your foes make false accusations that you deny, you are more likely to be believed than your foes.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Are most Pakistanis spewing filth against Pakistan and then hiding behind the guise of being "most patriotic"?

A common Pakistani wants electricity in his house, is Pakistan providing it to him? No, and that’s the filthy face our country. A common Pakistani requires quality education for his children, is he getting that. No and that’s the filthy face of our country. A common Pakistani requires safety and security of him and his children, is he getting it? No, and that’s a filthy face of our country. So calling out one institution, rightly or wrongly doesn’t even begin to address the shithousry of our country. They say things the way they perceive it. You and I can call them traitors, but they know who they are and they don’t need an exercise in validation from either you or me.

 

[KingKhanWC]

A common Pakistani wants electricity in his house, is Pakistan providing it to him? No, and that’s the filthy face our country. A common Pakistani requires quality education for his children, is he getting that. No and that’s the filthy face of our country. A common Pakistani requires safety and security of him and his children, is he getting it? No, and that’s a filthy face of our country. So calling out one institution, rightly or wrongly doesn’t even begin to address the shithousry of our country. They say things the way they perceive it. You and I can call them traitors, but they know who they are and they don’t need an exercise in validation from either you or me.

This is all fine but when they tag the Indian propaganda line to the tee, what then?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

This is all fine but when they tag the Indian propaganda line to the tee, what then?

Sure. As I said, you can make an educated guess about where they stand on different issues but can you rule out the possibility that they might genuinely care about those issues and worried about the direction of our country? People on the outside can call you whatever they like but when your family members remind you about overcoming your own flaws, no matter how close they may sound like the guy on the outside, you don’t question their sincerity.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

One should always be able to criticise any and all aspects of one's own country. Blind patriotism is detrimental in the long run, both for oneself and for the country. However, there are means and ways to do so such that it cannot be used as a propaganda tool by one's foes.For example, one should not criticise the 'people' en masse, or 'the country', or even the government per se, but instead be specific by criticing individuals and their actions, along with providing facts and some forms of solid proof to back it up, and not make generalisations.

Don't be afraid to speak the truth for fear it may be used as a propaganda tool by your foes. Don't stoop down to their level. Show that having the freedom to be critical of one self and aspects of one's own country is a sign of strength and not weakness. That way you also set the agenda rather than letting your foes do so.

Sure, it will be a negative in the short term. But in the long term your country will have established an aura of credibility, and when your foes make false accusations that you deny, you are more likely to be believed than your foes.

Good post. I have highlighted the most pertinent part for the Pakistani claiming to be a patriot who has had posts removed for racist abuse against his own countrymen fairly recently.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Good post. I have highlighted the most pertinent part for the Pakistani claiming to be a patriot who has had posts removed for racist abuse against his own countrymen fairly recently.

Unfortunately ppl in our country are very juzbati.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Sure. As I said, you can make an educated guess about where they stand on different issues but can you rule out the possibility that they might genuinely care about those issues and worried about the direction of our country? People on the outside can call you whatever they like but when your family members remind you about overcoming your own flaws, no matter how close they may sound like the guy on the outside, you don’t question their sincerity.

I dont think you understood my point.

Let me make it easier.

If a Pakistani is promoting Indian propaganda and at the same time doesn't critisie India what does it say about this type of person? You really think its just a view and they genuinely care about their country?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

I dont think you understood my point.

Let me make it easier.

If a Pakistani is promoting Indian propaganda and at the same time doesn't critisie India what does it say about this type of person? You really think its just a view and they genuinely care about their country?

I understand your point.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Unfortunately ppl in our country are very juzbati.

This is a misconception, having lived among the Angrez, Indians, Americans, Latinos, Nordics and Pakistanis I can guarantee you juzbati is not common to one nation.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

This is a misconception, having lived among the Angrez, Indians, Americans, Latinos, Nordics and Pakistanis I can guarantee you juzbati is not common to one nation.

I know that. See it this way, we live in a country where ppl are willing to hold our own cities hostage just because some dim witted sociopath in Netherlands wants to draw pictures of our Holly Prophet P.B.U.H. We do things in a way that instead of hurting our enemies hurts our own interests, our own image and our own lives.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I understand your point.

Ok. What are your views on India, their atrocities in Kashmir , sponsoring terrorism in Pakistan and refusing to play cricket? Dont hold back.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Ok. What are your views on India, their atrocities in Kashmir , sponsoring terrorism in Pakistan and refusing to play cricket? Dont hold back.

I don’t think that you can reason with the unreasonables. India’s atrocities, like any other atrocity is condemnable. My stance on Kashmir issue is that we can’t win it in a war. We can’t reason with India either. Plus there are so many fault lines in our country that i sometimes feel ashamed of condemning other countries (considering that I’m forced to consider myself a minority within my own country). So what’s the next best step? My solution is to have an open border policy with the ppl of Kashmir for a certain period of time. Make it a limited time offer and then seal the border for good. We love the ppl of Kashmir more than a piece of land. Aside from that, I don’t have any solution for ending this cycle of violence and abuse.

 

[slipcatch]

I dont think you understood my point.

Let me make it easier.

If a Pakistani is promoting Indian propaganda and at the same time doesn't critisie India what does it say about this type of person? You really think its just a view and they genuinely care about their country?

No!

Person only care about being correct all the time.

Person is seeking attention, dismissing facts with ridiculous made up facts in an attempt to divert the attention to themselves and changing the course of constructive discussion.

Person wants to appear better than its fellow countrymen.

Person only care about trolling despite denying it multiple times.

I also heard this excuse recently, “I did what I did for the counter balance in favor of Indians.”

 

[KingKhanWC]

I don’t think that you can reason with the unreasonables. India’s atrocities, like any other atrocity is condemnable. My stance on Kashmir issue is that we can’t win it in a war. We can’t reason with India either. Plus there are so many fault lines in our country that i sometimes feel ashamed of condemning other countries (considering that I’m forced to consider myself a minority within my own country). So what’s the next best step? My solution is to have an open border policy with the ppl of Kashmir for a certain period of time. Make it a limited time offer and then seal the border for good. We love the ppl of Kashmir more than a piece of land. Aside from that, I don’t have any solution for ending this cycle of violence and abuse.

Pakistan is not doing anything like India is in Kashmir. A state military machine is oppressing a whole population, this is not happening in Pakistan. Kashmiris want to live in their homeland otherwise they could have moved without any open border policy and this will remain forever.

What about Indian state terrorism in Pakistan and their refusal to play cricket?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I know that. See it this way, we live in a country where ppl are willing to hold our own cities hostage just because some dim witted sociopath in Netherlands wants to draw pictures of our Holly Prophet P.B.U.H. We do things in a way that instead of hurting our enemies hurts our own interests, our own image and our own lives.

You live in England I presume from your username, so are you saying we English are holding our own cities hostage?

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Pakistan is not doing anything like India is in Kashmir. A state military machine is oppressing a whole population, this is not happening in Pakistan. Kashmiris want to live in their homeland otherwise they could have moved without any open border policy and this will remain forever.

What about Indian state terrorism in Pakistan and their refusal to play cricket?

We are literally running military courts in Pakistan to execute our own citizens, no matter how bad they are. I don’t know about our ppl but the process is flawed and a serious violation of human rights. But I’m not comparing it with the Indian atrocities in Kashmir which is a next level shitshousry in my opinion. I acknowledge the fact that the Kashmiris want to live in their own homeland but we have to realise that we may never be able to fulfill all of their wishes. We can offer the Indian occupied Kashmiris our part of Kashmir but that is all we can do. There will come a time when we will have to make our foreign policy more realistic, a policy that is tethered to ground realities. We can’t afford this animosity with India forever, whereas they can. If 70 years of the bloody cycle can’t teach us that, I don’t know what will.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

You live in England I presume from your username, so are you saying we English are holding our own cities hostage?

I was referring to TLP’s antics.

 

[Angrez Pakistani]

Pakistan is not doing anything like India is in Kashmir. A state military machine is oppressing a whole population, this is not happening in Pakistan. Kashmiris want to live in their homeland otherwise they could have moved without any open border policy and this will remain forever.

What about Indian state terrorism in Pakistan and their refusal to play cricket?

And we all know what India is doing in Pakistan but we’ll have to prove it to the international community, which right now doesn’t exactly trust us.

 

[saadibaba]

What a thread!

Just amazing to see people spending so much thinking about this type of Pakistani and that type of Pakistani and what category to fit this particular person in and what to call that particular person with those particular views.

Must be exhausting.

 

[Madplayer]

6. They are useful idiots for the enemy.

7. They are defeatists who would join the enemy in criticising every single aspect of their country.

8. They are like Tarek Fateh and Adnan Sami.

9) They get or are looking for some sort of benefit from the enemy side. It might be personal benefits (a boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife) from the enemy country or might be professional benefits which have made them toe this line. They just want to reconcile conflicting thoughts within their minds to satisfy their guilty conscious.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Anyone who doesn't subscribe to the national opinion is a bey ghairat and bey haya namak haram jahil.

 

[MenInG]

Anyone who doesn't subscribe to the national opinion is a bey ghairat and bey haya namak haram jahil.

Applies to both sides of the argument.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What a thread!

Just amazing to see people spending so much thinking about this type of Pakistani and that type of Pakistani and what category to fit this particular person in and what to call that particular person with those particular views.

Must be exhausting.

It's not exhausting at all, I didn't spend any time thinking of what to call that type of person, the inspiration hit me one day last week when I came up with the absolutely brilliant term 'lapsed Pakistani'. There is no shame in having this label, if you don't believe in your country, why should you cling onto redundant views in order to prove loyalty?

 

[CricketCartoons]

The most valuable lesson I have learnt here is that one must always be an apologist for the country/religion/ethnicity one identifies with. That is only honourable position to take. Otherwise you become a useful tool for the enemies.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The most valuable lesson I have learnt here is that one must always be an apologist for the country/religion/ethnicity one identifies with. That is only honourable position to take. Otherwise you become a useful tool for the enemies.

As a proud and patriotic Indian you surely need no lessons in that subject.

 

[Wonderwoman]

This thread is so like Bhakt v/s non-Bhakts on my side of the border

 

[Dr_Bassim]

I like India.

It's a great country, but Jinnah was totally right in separating the Indo Pak subcontinent because in a United India probably the people who have destroyed each other.

I mean the amount of hatred people spew out for each other (both sides of the border) makes you wonder how people get enough time to hate when we barely have 60 years to live.

I like Pakistan more than India only because "its my home."

 

[cricketfan11]

Until we have a firm resolution to the question, "Why was Pakistan created" and what it stands for, these questions will keep being asked.

How similar and how different do Pakistanis need to be from Indians?

If they are very similar, should there have been a point in Pakistan?

 

[CricketCartoons]

As a proud and patriotic Indian you surely need no lessons in that subject.

Great to be acknowledged by the master apologist himself.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Until we have a firm resolution to the question, "Why was Pakistan created" and what it stands for, these questions will keep being asked.

How similar and how different do Pakistanis need to be from Indians?

If they are very similar, should there have been a point in Pakistan?

The answer must be that there is a Pakistan, so clearly there was not enough similarity. The majority of the subcontinent population were in favour of partition, otherwise it could never have happened.

Of course nothing is permanent, as can be seen by the division and reunification of Germany, but at this point there is no such appetite for reunification of India due to those differences you referred to.

 

[PakLFC]

Such people normally come from elite families in Pak bending over backwards to please India. Fortunately there are a very few of them, unfortunately being in prominent positions they are very influential. India also looks at many Congress supporters as pro Pakistanis as well. Rahul Gandhi, Sidhu and Mani Shankar are some politicians seen as Pak lovers in India. That Aman ka tamasha are a complete disgrace who I have written to many times, they are to afraid to answer or publish mail's of patriotic Pakistanis like me telling it the way it is. He may seem a bit crazy at times but I respect Zaid Hamid much more then these disgusting liberal's who preach peace with India.

 

[slipcatch]

Such people normally come from elite families in Pak bending over backwards to please India. Fortunately there are a very few of them, unfortunately being in prominent positions they are very influential. India also looks at many Congress supporters as pro Pakistanis as well. Rahul Gandhi, Sidhu and Mani Shankar are some politicians seen as Pak lovers in India. That Aman ka tamasha are a complete disgrace who I have written to many times, they are to afraid to answer or publish mail's of patriotic Pakistanis like me telling it the way it is. He may seem a bit crazy at times but I respect Zaid Hamid much more then these disgusting liberal's who preach peace with India.

Majority of Pakistani support peace with India.

But then there are those who wants to pull their chadi down and bend over for India to have peace. NO!, The PM of Pakistan rightly offer to start dialogue which was declined by radicalized PM due to fear of losing religious votes and losing the narrative that he stand up against Pakistan (laughable) and Anti-Muslim to protect cows.

This fallacy that Pakistan economy is in ruin because Pakistan has always supported Kahmiri against oppression is laughable and this narrative is mostly spewed by Indian media which this self proclaimed righteous and know more than rest of the Pakistani elite class fell for because they have read two books.

The only way forward is talk, which the current PM of Pakistan, the people of Pakistan and the Army of Pakistan advocated openly.

 

[KingKhanWC]

What a thread!

Just amazing to see people spending so much thinking about this type of Pakistani and that type of Pakistani and what category to fit this particular person in and what to call that particular person with those particular views.

Must be exhausting.

The thread was a result of posts made. It's not something I care to think about but it's interesting to see this phenomenon of those who are more sided with a neighbour nation which is also seen as a hostile nation. In England if someone was pro-Nazi Germany or if in Iraq someone is pro-USA it would be seen as a 'treacherous' by many. Everyone should and are entitled to crticise government policies or officials but regurgitating the enemy's propaganda is all together another matter.

What are you views on India being a Pakistani who has left Pakistan?

 

[CricketCartoons]

Such people normally come from elite families in Pak bending over backwards to please India. Fortunately there are a very few of them, unfortunately being in prominent positions they are very influential. India also looks at many Congress supporters as pro Pakistanis as well. Rahul Gandhi, Sidhu and Mani Shankar are some politicians seen as Pak lovers in India. That Aman ka tamasha are a complete disgrace who I have written to many times, they are to afraid to answer or publish mail's of patriotic Pakistanis like me telling it the way it is. He may seem a bit crazy at times but I respect Zaid Hamid much more then these disgusting liberal's who preach peace with India.

Such people are like termites. We have our fair share of anti national and pro pakistani indians, who always praise pakistan and diss india. they put NFAK above kumar sanu and pakistani folk music above indian music. self hating brown nosers, who prefer pakistani mangoes over the indian cultivars and consider pakistanis better looking than us indians. all the bad experiences i have had was with indians, but i always defend india no matter what, because there is something called ghairat, which is missing in these embarrassing indians who consider pakistan their cultural masters.

 

[Yossarian]

Such people are like termites. We have our fair share of anti national and pro pakistani indians, who always praise pakistan and diss india. they put NFAK above kumar sanu and pakistani folk music above indian music. self hating brown nosers, who prefer pakistani mangoes over the indian cultivars and consider pakistanis better looking than us indians. all the bad experiences i have had was with indians, but i always defend india no matter what, because there is something called ghairat, which is missing in these embarrassing indians who consider pakistan their cultural masters.

Really? Seriously? Shock horror! Never realised there were some Indians who felt this way. Should be a law against it. Make it a capital offence. It's ludicrous for any self respecting Indian to even entertain the thought that Pakistanis are better looking than Indians. They should have their mouths washed out with soap, hanged, and bodies displayed on flagpoles in city centres.

 

[PakLFC]

Such people are like termites. We have our fair share of anti national and pro pakistani indians, who always praise pakistan and diss india. they put NFAK above kumar sanu and pakistani folk music above indian music. self hating brown nosers, who prefer pakistani mangoes over the indian cultivars and consider pakistanis better looking than us indians. all the bad experiences i have had was with indians, but i always defend india no matter what, because there is something called ghairat, which is missing in these embarrassing indians who consider pakistan their cultural masters.

Pakistanis are by and large better looking then Indian people NFAK was much better then Kumar Sanu for goodness sake. Sometimes you have to give credit to the enemy as well. I will always defend the country and military of Pakistan but not all politicians. You are welcome to take Nawaz Sharif and such pro Pak Indians from us free of charge!!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistanis are by and large better looking then Indian people NFAK was much better then Kumar Sanu for goodness sake. Sometimes you have to give credit to the enemy as well. I will always defend the country and military of Pakistan but not all politicians. You are welcome to take Nawaz Sharif and such pro Pak Indians from us free of charge!!

So true. Everyone knows I mock Bollywood relentlessly for their cringey movies, but it is never acknowledged that I have said Pakistani film industry is far worse. Yet still I am called an apologist for Islamic tyrants like Aurangzeb when I suggest he has perhaps been misrepresented.

 

[Minnowbasher]

From my experiences many Pakistanis dislike Pakistan because of what it's done to them. Pakistan has failed to provide good jobs, good education, good healthcare, good quality of life etc and has instead provided extremism and all these tableeli jamaat mullahs who say do this and do that or get killed.
As much as we overseas Pakistanis want to love Pakistan and think of it as a good country the reality is Pakistan is so backward that it would take 40-50 years of good governance to make Pakistanis have a good quality of life and even then the threat from Afghanistan, India and USA will always remain.
Most young Pakistanis just want to get out of the country. They see no future in Pakistan and we can't really blame them for that. Even under imran khan he can't do much unless he gets elected again and he finds good people around him. The problem is most politicians in Pakistan are selfish, no1 cares about Pakistan they only care about themselves and filling their pockets with as much money as possible. Imran may be good but the rest are corrupt.
Overall young Pakistanis aren't that passionate. They don't really like Pakistan. However they don't like India either. They sometimes show respect for India because atleast India has a better quality of life and a really bright economic future.

 

[Minnowbasher]

If Pakistan provided better quality of life and standard of living then I'm sure even the most negative ppl like mamoon would be more optimistic about everything from cricket to politics.

 

[saadibaba]

What are you views on India being a Pakistani who has left Pakistan?

My views are of a neutral observer. I dislike Modi's version of India and in particular believe India is committing massive human rights violations in Kashmir. But I also know that there is a tolerant, more open minded and less jingoistic India. One billion people cannot be judged based on the actions of a few. I also feel that our military establishment has used India as the bogeyman in order to strengthen its own hold on power and have established and proliferated certain extremist groups which are detrimental to any peace process between the two countries. I feel both sides need to give up on their extremist nationalistic rhetoric, learn to find common ground and move forward as allies in the global world. This will be of benefit to both countries.

 

[saadibaba]

It's not exhausting at all, I didn't spend any time thinking of what to call that type of person, the inspiration hit me one day last week when I came up with the absolutely brilliant term 'lapsed Pakistani'. There is no shame in having this label, if you don't believe in your country, why should you cling onto redundant views in order to prove loyalty?

Not sure why supposedly "Pro-Indian Pakistanis" are lapsed in anyway. If anything their argument is more pertinent and valid than ever. War is not the solution to our problems. If seventy years of conflict have not taught us that already than I don't know what will.

 

[Braveheart]

I think there are definitely pro-Indian Pakistanis, but unfortunately for them, the love isn't reciprocated. Proud Modi loving Indians will only see them as useful idiots and that is where the sympathy for friendly Pakistanis ends.

Quite a hot Potatoe, but the 'sad' reality is a large number of Indian Muslims are covertly 'Pro-Pakistani' for various reasons. I work with quite a few Indian Muslim Gujeratis and bizarrely they Support Pakistan politically and sportingly but do not let on to fellow Hindus.

 

[someone21]

So being anti-terrorist is assumed as pro-India? Shows the deep problems within Pak and why it can't be trusted. There should be no compromise on terrorism....

 

[the Great Khan]

Ive lived with indians for nearly 40 years. I have done business with them, travelled with them etc. I have many many Indian friends. I will simply say one thing, Jinnah was right.

 

[Zahid87]

It is amazing how PR and propaganda works.

Associate any criticism, which is considered to be anti-national or anti-state, as something which toes the line of India. Thereafter, it is all a work of Indian propaganda, which is by default (and unquestionably), untrue and malicious in the minds of the people.

And hilariously people like KKWC then have the gall to criticise the US for its supposed inability to look inwards at its problems.

 

[barah_admi]

Nawaz Sharif lost a lot of credibility with the public when he made pro India statements attacking 'his' own nation..

"“Militant organisations are active. Call them non-state actors, should we allow them to cross the border and kill 150 people in Mumbai?"

This was basically a confirmation of Indian allegation who claim Pakistan has active groups who are ordered to attack India.

Others such as Najam Sethi have also made similar statements attacking Pakistan and praising India.

When I visit Pakistan I never meet such people who hold pro-India views but there seems to be some around esp on internet forums and social media.

I would like to know...

1. Is this a growing phenomenon?

2. Are some Pakistani's self hating and prefer to be part of India?

3. Are such people a threat to national security as they can be recruited?

4. Is this treason?

5. Are they just patriotic Pakistani's who believe they are only speaking the truth?

For me, I can never respect any Pakistani who is pro-Indian at the expense of being negative towards Pakistan.

I too find it weird that when I visit Pakistan I do not come across these people yet on a forum like this, theres seems to be a very vocal minority. Who knows, most of them are trolls anyway so best ignore them.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Quite a hot Potatoe, but the 'sad' reality is a large number of Indian Muslims are covertly 'Pro-Pakistani' for various reasons. I work with quite a few Indian Muslim Gujeratis and bizarrely they Support Pakistan politically and sportingly but do not let on to fellow Hindus.

Very interesting although it bears no relation to my post which you quoted.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

From my experiences many Pakistanis dislike Pakistan because of what it's done to them. Pakistan has failed to provide good jobs, good education, good healthcare, good quality of life etc and has instead provided extremism and all these tableeli jamaat mullahs who say do this and do that or get killed.
As much as we overseas Pakistanis want to love Pakistan and think of it as a good country the reality is Pakistan is so backward that it would take 40-50 years of good governance to make Pakistanis have a good quality of life and even then the threat from Afghanistan, India and USA will always remain.
Most young Pakistanis just want to get out of the country. They see no future in Pakistan and we can't really blame them for that. Even under imran khan he can't do much unless he gets elected again and he finds good people around him. The problem is most politicians in Pakistan are selfish, no1 cares about Pakistan they only care about themselves and filling their pockets with as much money as possible. Imran may be good but the rest are corrupt.
Overall young Pakistanis aren't that passionate. They don't really like Pakistan. However they don't like India either. They sometimes show respect for India because atleast India has a better quality of life and a really bright economic future.

India doesn't have a better quality of life, it is much the same at present, which is why you still get huge numbers of Indian immigrants flooding to Britain as I am sure you are aware of if you live in Manchester. But their economic future does look brighter, you are right there. But you are saying that even if Pakistan has good governance, the threat from India, Afghanistan and USA will still remain, so then it seems that progress for Pakistan is impossible. That seems to be a very unhealthy attitude, and probably a reason why there is no 'passion' among the young people as you put it. They have bought into the grass is greener attitude and ultimately no country can progress if the youth are looking for short cuts.

 

[Greenstorm]

From my experiences many Pakistanis dislike Pakistan because of what it's done to them. Pakistan has failed to provide good jobs, good education, good healthcare, good quality of life etc and has instead provided extremism and all these tableeli jamaat mullahs who say do this and do that or get killed.
As much as we overseas Pakistanis want to love Pakistan and think of it as a good country the reality is Pakistan is so backward that it would take 40-50 years of good governance to make Pakistanis have a good quality of life and even then the threat from Afghanistan, India and USA will always remain.
Most young Pakistanis just want to get out of the country. They see no future in Pakistan and we can't really blame them for that. Even under imran khan he can't do much unless he gets elected again and he finds good people around him. The problem is most politicians in Pakistan are selfish, no1 cares about Pakistan they only care about themselves and filling their pockets with as much money as possible. Imran may be good but the rest are corrupt.
Overall young Pakistanis aren't that passionate. They don't really like Pakistan. However they don't like India either. They sometimes show respect for India because atleast India has a better quality of life and a really bright economic future.

No young Pakistanis are passionate about their country. It is them who elected Imran(an incorruptible, sincere man) as their PM. Our country only needs a strong, visionary leadership and then see us fly.

 

[Majestic_Inzi]

Ive lived with indians for nearly 40 years. I have done business with them, travelled with them etc. I have many many Indian friends. I will simply say one thing, Jinnah was right.

Can you expand on that statement, Jinnah was right.

 

[pillionrider]

Quite a hot Potatoe, but the 'sad' reality is a large number of Indian Muslims are covertly 'Pro-Pakistani' for various reasons. I work with quite a few Indian Muslim Gujeratis and bizarrely they Support Pakistan politically and sportingly but do not let on to fellow Hindus.

Nice try especially the Gujarat angle

 

[Mamoon]

Let’s not play the “Mr. Jinnah was right” angle. He did not want partition and was coerced into it by Nehru.

People should educate themselves over this topic. I recommend reading the works of Ayesha Jalal, Pakistan’s leading historian who is disliked by many because of her uncomfortable facts.

As I always say, if the majority of Pakistan dislikes you (barring a few exceptions of course) and calls you a foreign agent and a puppet, you are doing the right thing. That is when you know that you are speaking the truth.

Personally speaking, I still think that the partition - especially in the form that it was carried out - was a disastrous mistake and people are still suffering from its after-effects.

We the Muslims ruled over Hindus for centuries and everything was normal, but as soon as it was their turn to rule, it became unacceptable to us. Religion is a weak ground to divide a nation on, and it was always going to have long-term consequences.

The Indian subcontinent should have been divided into autonomous states with their own governments and policies, basically similar to the U.S.

The United States of India would have had superpower potential - both India and Pakistan have wasted billions on military spending because of the Kashmir conflict, and that money would have been better utilized now.

Of course, we would still have had to spend huge amounts of money on defense because the likes of USA, Russia and China would view us as a major threat, but we wouldn’t be at war with our immediate neighbors which would have allowed stability.

In spite of these constraints, India have made big strides economically. Imagine the potential of a united India with no major internal conflicts. The biggest reason why Pakistan has failed to develop its economy and industries is because of military interference, which would not have happened in a united India.

The biggest issue of course, which lead to this botched partition, is whether Muslims and Hindus would have been able to live with each other peacefully. I believe that a united India would have made a lot of progress in education.

At a macro level, education has an inverse relationship with dependence on religion. The more educated you are, the less influence religion will have on you.

Of course it does not mean that all educated people are atheists, but education promotes independent thinking and the ability to distinguish between right or wrong - it ensures that you are not slaves to religion.

Religious extremism is the weapon of the illiterate and poor, and education is a remedy for both. The literacy rate in a united India would have been high which would have meant that interfaith conflicts would have been reduced to a good degree.

No blasphemy laws, no debates on who is a Muslim and who isn’t, no cow or beef lynching and also less rape. The subcontinent would have become more progressive where humanity would be cherished.

Of course there would be some drawbacks too, but I cannot imagine that it would be worse than what it is now, which is why I do believe that a United India would have been a better solution in the long-term, but of course that is something the British were never interested in.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Let’s not play the “Mr. Jinnah was right” angle. He did not want partition and was coerced into it by Nehru.

People should educate themselves over this topic. I recommend reading the works of Ayesha Jalal, Pakistan’s leading historian who is disliked by many because of her uncomfortable facts.

As I always say, if the majority of Pakistan dislikes you (barring a few exceptions of course) and calls you a foreign agent and a puppet, you are doing the right thing. That is when you know that you are speaking the truth.

Personally speaking, I still think that the partition - especially in the form that it was carried out - was a disastrous mistake and people are still suffering from its after-effects.

We the Muslims ruled over Hindus for centuries and everything was normal, but as soon as it was their turn to rule, it became unacceptable to us. Religion is a weak ground to divide a nation on, and it was always going to have long-term consequences.

The Indian subcontinent should have been divided into autonomous states with their own governments and policies, basically similar to the U.S.

The United States of India would have had superpower potential - both India and Pakistan have wasted billions on military spending because of the Kashmir conflict, and that money would have been better utilized now.

Of course, we would still have had to spend huge amounts of money on defense because the likes of USA, Russia and China would view us as a major threat, but we wouldn’t be at war with our immediate neighbors which would have allowed stability.

In spite of these constraints, India have made big strides economically. Imagine the potential of a united India with no major internal conflicts. The biggest reason why Pakistan has failed to develop its economy and industries is because of military interference, which would not have happened in a united India.

The biggest issue of course, which lead to this botched partition, is whether Muslims and Hindus would have been able to live with each other peacefully. I believe that a united India would have made a lot of progress in education.

At a macro level, education has an inverse relationship with dependence on religion. The more educated you are, the less influence religion will have on you.

Of course it does not mean that all educated people are atheists, but education promotes independent thinking and the ability to distinguish between right or wrong - it ensures that you are not slaves to religion.

Religious extremism is the weapon of the illiterate and poor, and education is a remedy for both. The literacy rate in a united India would have been high which would have meant that interfaith conflicts would have been reduced to a good degree.

No blasphemy laws, no debates on who is a Muslim and who isn’t, no cow or beef lynching and also less rape. The subcontinent would have become more progressive where humanity would be cherished.

Of course there would be some drawbacks too, but I cannot imagine that it would be worse than what it is now, which is why I do believe that a United India would have been a better solution in the long-term, but of course that is something the British were never interested in.

There is some truth in there but I think you are glossing over the most pertinent part which was in fact your first line. Partition could never have happened if the majority religion population of India wasn't agreed to it, even now if you give it some thought you would admit that the last thing the Hindus would want is Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslim population added to the Indian vote banks. The Akhand Bharat talk is pie in the sky for now, perhaps a few more generations of Gar wapsi conversions of the population might see it revived in the future, for now partition suits Indians just fine. You can beg for their acceptance all you want, doesn't mean you will get it.

 

[Zahid87]

We the Muslims ruled over Hindus for centuries and everything was normal, but as soon as it was their turn to rule, it became unacceptable to us. Religion is a weak ground to divide a nation on, and it was always going to have long-term consequences.

This nonsense is the greatest success of the British.

'We', the Muslims, never reigned over the 'Hindus'. Identities were not binary, and religious identities are a fluid concept. A convert today has absolutely nothing to do with the actions of the past.

Secondly, the so called 'Muslim' rulers identified as Central Asian/Turkish/Mughal - not as Muslim. The same way in which British rule was not Christian rule. I don't see the Christians of Pakistan yearning for the return of the British, nor do I see them place any stake in the British Raj.

It baffles me why some villager in Punjab would think that he was somehow part of a lost 'Muslim' empire, when in reality, he was just a poor serf tending the fields of his Zamindar masters...whatever their religion.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Let’s not play the “Jinnah was right” angle. He did not want partition and was coerced into it by Nehru.

People should educate themselves over this topic. I recommend reading the works of Ayesha Jalal, Pakistan’s leading historian who is disliked by many because of her uncomfortable facts.

As I always say, if the majority of Pakistan dislikes you (barring a few exceptions of course) and calls you a foreign agent and a puppet, you are doing the right thing. That is when you know that you are speaking the truth.

Personally speaking, I still think that the partition - especially in the form that it was carried out - was a disastrous mistake and people are still suffering from its after-effects.

We the Muslims ruled over Hindus for centuries and everything was normal, but as soon as it was their turn to rule, it became unacceptable to us. Religion is a weak ground to divide a nation on, and it was always going to have long-term consequences.

The Indian subcontinent should have been divided into autonomous states with their own governments and policies, basically similar to the U.S.

The United States of India would have had superpower potential - both India and Pakistan have wasted billions on military spending because of the Kashmir conflict, and that money would have been better utilized now.

Of course, we would still have had to spend huge amounts of money on defense because the likes of USA, Russia and China would view us as a major threat, but we wouldn’t be at war with our immediate neighbors which would have allowed stability.

In spite of these constraints, India have made big strides economically. Imagine the potential of a united India with no major internal conflicts. The biggest reason why Pakistan has failed to develop its economy and industries is because of military interference, which would not have happened in a united India.

The biggest issue of course, which lead to this botched partition, is whether Muslims and Hindus would have been able to live with each other peacefully. I believe that a united India would have made a lot of progress in education.

At a macro level, education has an inverse relationship with dependence on religion. The more educated you are, the less influence religion will have on you.

Of course it does not mean that all educated people are atheists, but education promotes independent thinking and the ability to distinguish between right or wrong - it ensures that you are not slaves to religion.

Religious extremism is the weapon of the illiterate and poor, and education is a remedy for both. The literacy rate in a united India would have been high which would have meant that interfaith conflicts would have been reduced to a good degree.

No blasphemy laws, no debates on who is a Muslim and who isn’t, no cow or beef lynching and also less rape. The subcontinent would have become more progressive where humanity would be cherished.

Of course there would be some drawbacks too, but I cannot imagine that it would be worse than what it is now, which is why I do believe that a United India would have been a better solution in the long-term, but of course that is something the British were never interested in.

United states of India?

Jinnah did not want partition but changed his mind when he realised there would be civil war. It wasnt the turn of Hindus to rule the lands, it was supposed to be a secular nation but you have identified Hindus wanting to rule which is correct. The extremist Hindus cant forget Muslims ruled over them for centuries which is why they are discriminating against Muslims in India today.

It's nice you have confirmed you dont believe the creation of Pakistan was the right thing and you would have liked to be known as an Indian. Do you also believe Pakistan should sieze to exist now and be united with Indian or under Indian rule? If this happens as a Muslim how would you feel if were discriminated against as many have?

It's your choice to be an Indian but as someone says no matter how much you want to be one of them, they may never accept you.

 

[KingKhanWC]

My views are of a neutral observer. I dislike Modi's version of India and in particular believe India is committing massive human rights violations in Kashmir. But I also know that there is a tolerant, more open minded and less jingoistic India. One billion people cannot be judged based on the actions of a few. I also feel that our military establishment has used India as the bogeyman in order to strengthen its own hold on power and have established and proliferated certain extremist groups which are detrimental to any peace process between the two countries. I feel both sides need to give up on their extremist nationalistic rhetoric, learn to find common ground and move forward as allies in the global world. This will be of benefit to both countries.

How do you mean neutral? You were born in Pakistan, lived there for many years and then moved. You are a Pakistani living abroad in a nation which can deport you back at any time. Of course not all Indians are extreme such as Modi but he was elected by hundreds of millions and most Indians have hate towards Pakistan.

Your stance pretends to be neutral but imo is pro-Indian as you do not recognise it's India who is continuing the conflict between both sides.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

This nonsense is the greatest success of the British.

'We', the Muslims, never reigned over the 'Hindus'. Identities were not binary, and religious identities are a fluid concept. A convert today has absolutely nothing to do with the actions of the past.

Secondly, the so called 'Muslim' rulers identified as Central Asian/Turkish/Mughal - not as Muslim. The same way in which British rule was not Christian rule. I don't see the Christians of Pakistan yearning for the return of the British, nor do I see them place any stake in the British Raj.

It baffles me why some villager in Punjab would think that he was somehow part of a lost 'Muslim' empire, when in reality, he was just a poor serf tending the fields of his Zamindar masters...whatever their religion.

I suppose now you are going to tell us we British never ruled over India either. Well I have news for you chum, we very much did, and I can post you a picture of a big fat diamond sat square in the middle of the crown jewels which are worn by her majesty on royal occasions of great import.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Let’s not play the “Mr. Jinnah was right” angle. He did not want partition and was coerced into it by Nehru.

People should educate themselves over this topic. I recommend reading the works of Ayesha Jalal, Pakistan’s leading historian who is disliked by many because of her uncomfortable facts.

As I always say, if the majority of Pakistan dislikes you (barring a few exceptions of course) and calls you a foreign agent and a puppet, you are doing the right thing. That is when you know that you are speaking the truth.

Personally speaking, I still think that the partition - especially in the form that it was carried out - was a disastrous mistake and people are still suffering from its after-effects.

We the Muslims ruled over Hindus for centuries and everything was normal, but as soon as it was their turn to rule, it became unacceptable to us. Religion is a weak ground to divide a nation on, and it was always going to have long-term consequences.

The Indian subcontinent should have been divided into autonomous states with their own governments and policies, basically similar to the U.S.

The United States of India would have had superpower potential - both India and Pakistan have wasted billions on military spending because of the Kashmir conflict, and that money would have been better utilized now.

Of course, we would still have had to spend huge amounts of money on defense because the likes of USA, Russia and China would view us as a major threat, but we wouldn’t be at war with our immediate neighbors which would have allowed stability.

In spite of these constraints, India have made big strides economically. Imagine the potential of a united India with no major internal conflicts. The biggest reason why Pakistan has failed to develop its economy and industries is because of military interference, which would not have happened in a united India.

The biggest issue of course, which lead to this botched partition, is whether Muslims and Hindus would have been able to live with each other peacefully. I believe that a united India would have made a lot of progress in education.

At a macro level, education has an inverse relationship with dependence on religion. The more educated you are, the less influence religion will have on you.

Of course it does not mean that all educated people are atheists, but education promotes independent thinking and the ability to distinguish between right or wrong - it ensures that you are not slaves to religion.

Religious extremism is the weapon of the illiterate and poor, and education is a remedy for both. The literacy rate in a united India would have been high which would have meant that interfaith conflicts would have been reduced to a good degree.

No blasphemy laws, no debates on who is a Muslim and who isn’t, no cow or beef lynching and also less rape. The subcontinent would have become more progressive where humanity would be cherished.

Of course there would be some drawbacks too, but I cannot imagine that it would be worse than what it is now, which is why I do believe that a United India would have been a better solution in the long-term, but of course that is something the British were never interested in.

I have read a lot of diatribes, useless books and fantasy fiction novels, but you take the cake

I suppose now you will also claim Jinnah was an agent planted by British .

As for United States of India?

You have lost sense of reality .

 

[saadibaba]

How do you mean neutral? You were born in Pakistan, lived there for many years and then moved. You are a Pakistani living abroad in a nation which can deport you back at any time. Of course not all Indians are extreme such as Modi but he was elected by hundreds of millions and most Indians have hate towards Pakistan.

Your stance pretends to be neutral but imo is pro-Indian as you do not recognise it's India who is continuing the conflict between both sides.

You seem to know more about my links with Pakistan than I do, lol. I haven't been to Pakistan in 16 years, not even once. All my immediate family lives in US. I have very little if any ties left in Pakistan other than historical and nostalgic. Having said that, I still consider myself as a Pakistani minus the patriotic and jingoistic baggage that comes along with it according to people like you who feel a "Pakistani" need to carry in order to be called a "True Pakistani".

As for India, you can keep believing the propaganda fed to you by our military establishment and their allies. I choose to believe otherwise. As I stated in my earlier post, I am no fan of Modi but to say that most Indians feel nothing but hate towards Pakistan is a highly subjective statement. If you feel that makes me pro-Indian so be it. Feel free to keep believing that. Whatever rocks your boat!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You seem to know more about my links with Pakistan than I do, lol. I haven't been to Pakistan in 16 years, not even once. All my immediate family lives in US. I have very little if any ties left in Pakistan other than historical and nostalgic. Having said that, I still consider myself as a Pakistani minus the patriotic and jingoistic baggage that comes along with it according to people like you who feel a "Pakistani" need to carry in order to be called a "True Pakistani".

As for India, you can keep believing the propaganda fed to you by our military establishment and their allies. I choose to believe otherwise. As I stated in my earlier post, I am no fan of Modi but to say that most Indians feel nothing but hate towards Pakistan is a highly subjective statement. If you feel that makes me pro-Indian so be it. Feel free to keep believing that. Whatever rocks your boat!

I think that's fair enough. You aren't a fan of Modi, but you are understanding of his support base. Pakistan militarily propaganda is to blame along with their allies (which include your current country of residence and Saudi Arabia by the way). You just need to move on from this site onto typical American ones which aren't stuck in the past and have very little concern with Pakistan at all.

 

[saadibaba]

I think that's fair enough. You aren't a fan of Modi, but you are understanding of his support base. Pakistan militarily propaganda is to blame along with their allies (which include your current country of residence and Saudi Arabia by the way). You just need to move on from this site onto typical American ones which aren't stuck in the past and have very little concern with Pakistan at all.

So you are asking me to quit PakPassion since I don’t harbor the same patriotic beliefs as the majority of my fellow countrymen, lol. Tell me who here is more Modi like? A “pro-Indian” Pakistani like me or you.....