"PSL is a good standard and probably better than IPL" : Abdul Razzaq

[Mamoon]

The point you were trying to make is PSL is low level league, but I presented facts that how can a league be low level when it has players who are amongst the highest run scorers and highest wicket-takers in other leagues some even in your beloved IPL.



This simple fact went over your head.

The PSL is a low level league because 99% of the top international players in the world are not playing in it.

 

[Syed1]

A simple question. If you had the option of picking AB , Starc , QDK ,Kohli ; would you still go with Ingram , Walton , Bopara , Denly etc ?

If the former group is just playing on reputation and the latter are the ones actually scoring runs or picking wicket then I would be stupid to pick the former ones just because they are "superstars"

 

[Mamoon]

Does not change the fact that Gayle failed in two seasons in the PSL.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the theory that the quality of bowling of the PSL is too high for him to perform.

 

[ManFan]

A simple question. If you had the option of picking AB , Starc , QDK ,Kohli ; would you still go with Ingram , Walton , Bopara , Denly etc ?

Simple. The superstars. But not if they fail to perform.

 

[Syed1]

The PSL is a low level league because 99% of the top international players in the world are not playing in it.

Don't present your opinion as facts.

 

[ManFan]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the theory that the quality of bowling of the PSL is too high for him to perform.

Than how do you explain him demolishing bowlers in the BPL and IPL but TWO seasons of failure in the PSL?

 

[Syed1]

The PSL is a low level league because 99% of the top international players in the world are not playing in it.

If PSL is low level then so is IPL because some of the biggest performers in the IPL are playing in PSL.


You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[reversehook]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the theory that the quality of bowling of the PSL is too high for him to perform.

bas kar do bhai, aur kya hamari puphiyaan ja keh ussay out kar rahi theen... at the end of the day, he failed two seasons in a row... and failed enough that no one wanted him...

IPL is greater in terms of batting....
PSL is greater in terms of bowling...

 

[Rayyman]

McClenaghan, Hales, Morgan, Ingram, Hastings, Mills, Wiese, and Abbot are players that have made PSL, but gone unsold at IPL.

 

[Gotham Cronie]

IPL superstars are playing like de Villiers, Warner, de Kock, Starc, Rabada, Stokes, Maxwell, Smith, Williamson etc. who are too big and expensive for the PSL.

Is the bolded part opinion or fact?

 

[WengerOut]

Does not change the fact that Gayle failed in two seasons in the PSL.

Same for last 2 IPLs

 

[Syed1]

McClenaghan, Hales, Morgan, Ingram, Hastings, Mills, Wiese, and Abbot are players that have made PSL, but gone unsold at IPL.

McClenaghan was fourth highest wicket-taker last season in IPL


Tymal Mills was the most expensive buy a season ago ) )


Bus karde bhai

 

[ManFan]

IPL is played on flat pitches in which 175 is the norm. PSL is played on dry, spin-friednly pitches where 130 is the norm. What is so hard to understand?

 

[WengerOut]

Simple. The superstars. But not if they fail to perform.

None of them mentioned are absolute failures. But i find it hard to believe those Ingrams n all can perform better I'm circumstances where superstars failed.

 

[ManFan]

Same for last 2 IPLs

Than he is on the decline. He just scored a 100 in the BPL so you never know.

 

[Rayyman]

McClenaghan was fourth highest wicket-taker last season in IPL


Tymal Mills was the most expensive buy a season ago ) )


Bus karde bhai

Am talking about the draft this year...

 

[ManFan]

None of them mentioned are absolute failures. But i find it hard to believe those Ingrams n all can perform better I'm circumstances where superstars failed.

Ingram has not performed this season. Why should a team keep him? You just mentioned Gayle has been a failure the last 2 seasons in the IPL as well.

 

[ManFan]

Am talking about the draft this year...

IPL has not begun yet.

 

[Syed1]

Am talking about the draft this year...

I don't follow IPL or draft shraft... these are the same players that IPL picked and played and they performed..


So you are saying IPL before this year's draft was same level as PSL?


Like I said to Mamoon - can't have your cake and eat it too

 

[Gotham Cronie]

IPL is played on flat pitches in which 175 is the norm. PSL is played on dry, spin-friednly pitches where 130 is the norm. What is so hard to understand?

Do you just spew off garbage without any knowledge?

Average 1st innings score this year is 152 so far.

 

[Rayyman]

I don't follow IPL or draft shraft... these are the same players that IPL picked and played and they performed..


So you are saying IPL before this year's draft was same level as PSL?


Like I said to Mamoon - can't have your cake and eat it too

Don't follow IPL either, but a simple google search-
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_...auction-list-sold-unsold-players?platform=amp

 

[WengerOut]

Ingram has not performed this season. Why should a team keep him? You just mentioned Gayle has been a failure the last 2 seasons in the IPL as well.

I.meant supersttars generally not specifically Gayle. If Gayle fails , like RCB did , they dropped him and brought another mainstream player.

 

[WengerOut]

IPL is played on flat pitches in which 175 is the norm. PSL is played on dry, spin-friednly pitches where 130 is the norm. What is so hard to understand?

So., Is it about pitches or bowling?

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=139765]Arham_PakFan[/MENTION]

The fact that the top players in the world are not playing in the PSL has obviously got to do with scheduling as well. The money in the IPL is obviously far greater, but the likes of de Villiers, Warner, Starc, Stokes, Maxwell etc. will not say no to the money on offered in the PSL if their opportunity cost is low.

However, the PSL is held just before the IPL - and even there is no international cricket at that time - some of these players will not be willing to play because of the risk of getting injured. Even a retired cricketer like Johnson backed out of the PSL because he wanted to save himself for the IPL, which is far more important to these players because of the money involved.

Unless the PSL (a) provides a similar financial package to the IPL (b) provide enough money to question the loyalty of the players to their respective cricket boards, we will not see the top players play in the PSL.

There is a reason why the IPL has a dedicated window - the money involved turned the heads and questioned the loyalties of players. In order to avoid the conflict, the ICC decided to put international cricket on hold when the IPL is going on.

If the PSL can provide similar incentives to the IPL, the ICC will be forced to give it a dedicated window. However, that is not going to happen. Pakistan cricket has a small market in comparison to Indian cricket, and the PCB simply does not have the same resources.

For the same reasons, the PSL will never become what the IPL is today. However, if it is brought back to Pakistan, it has the potential to establish itself ahead of BPL and CPL because the market for Pakistan cricket is bigger than Bangladesh or the Caribbean.

Nonetheless, being number 2 or number 3 means little when the number 1 (IPL) is at a completely different stratosphere.

 

[Syed1]

A point of [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I failed to address - IPL production quality is better, not because of HD quality cameras, spider-cam, hawkeye, umpire cam, slow-mo or graphics.


but because of......... wait for it........ commentary


) ) ) )



you can't make this stuff up




PP's resident wrist slitter scrapping at the bottom of the barrel yet again.

 

[ManFan]

I.meant supersttars generally not specifically Gayle. If Gayle fails , like RCB did , they dropped him and brought another mainstream player.

Like AB? He has not done consistently well. Only foreign signs that performed well in the batting department were Warner and Smith.

 

[Greenstorm]

Aap hi madad karlain unki, wo to meray post ke baad dum daba ke bhaag gaye hain.

Get some life bhai. You picked a post in this thread and replied it with a long paragraph just to tell us for thousandth time that PSL is a low class, garbage level league and how great IPL is with the star players and all that.

Most of us agree that IPL is the best league out there. IPL's production quality, pitches and commentary is good although I believe bowling in PSL is better. But what is the point of degrading PSL at every oppurtunity ? It is a decent league right up there with CPL and BBL .

 

[Greenstorm]

Phasst Wahab is the highest wicket taker in PSL history. TTFs Sami and Irfan are not far behind. Goes both ways.

They are good T20 bowlers.

 

[Rayyman]

PSL doesn't have players like ABD, Santner, Wood, Moeen, De Grandhomme, Southee, Woakes, De Kock, Munro, Maxwell, De Kock, Rabada, Morris, Christian, Lewis, Behrendorff, Cummins, Johnson, Smith, Archer, Stokes, Buttler, Miller, Tye, Warner, and Williamson.

 

[WengerOut]

Like AB? He has not done consistently well. Only foreign signs that performed well in the batting department were Warner and Smith.

No , he has done consistently well. You obviously can't score every match. AB even has a cult following due to that.

 

[ManFan]

PSL doesn't have players like ABD, Santner, Wood, Moeen, De Grandhomme, Southee, Woakes, De Kock, Munro, Maxwell, De Kock, Rabada, Morris, Christian, Lewis, Behrendorff, Cummins, Johnson, Smith, Archer, Stokes, Buttler, Miller, Tye, Warner, and Williamson.

They signed Archer. He has an injury.
Who are Christian, Tye, Behrendorff?

 

[ManFan]

No , he has done consistently well. You obviously can't score every match. AB even has a cult following due to that.

Wasn't in the top scorers last time.

 

[Mamoon]

Is the bolded part opinion or fact?

The first part of my last post answered it, but I will summarize it here.

I do not have the exact numbers, but obviously, the money that the IPL franchises have at their disposal is quite high compared to their PSL counterparts. As a result, the top players in the world have no incentive to play in the PSL, even if we ignore the scheduling conflicts.

Since the PSL is held right before the IPL, the said players are not going to risk themselves getting injured before the IPL. What Johnson did this year was understandable, even though he has retired from international cricket and has limited earning potential at this point.

Furthermore, the money involved in the IPL was becoming a threat to international cricket. As a result, the ICC decided to give it a dedicated window. For the PSL to avoid the scheduling conflict, it will have to provide similar incentives.

If the PSL is held at a time where there is a considerable gap between the IPL and the PSL and no international cricket is going on, we might see some of the top players like de Villiers etc. who have played in the CPL previously.

So as far PSL's financial muscle i(n comparison to the IPL) is concerned, it is a fact. However, the "too big" for the PSL part is my opinion.

Someone like Joe Root was eager to play in the IPL to improve as a T20 cricketer, but I do not think he will have similar sentiments for the PSL, considering the pool of players that are playing in the PSL.

Playing against a few journeyman T20 cricketers in the middle of a desert with empty stadiums is not the same experience as playing against the top players in the world in packed Indian stadiums.

 

[WengerOut]

Wasn't in the top scorers last time.

Cummon man. What are you saying . You will drop Messi and replace him with consistent performers like Troy Deeney if failed for 1 season. Their contribution in a failed cause will be more than the best of the other guys. That is why they are better.

 

[Rayyman]

They signed Archer. He has an injury.
Who are Christian, Tye, Behrendorff?

Archer is skipping PSL to rest for IPL.

Christian is a BBL legend.

Tye and Behrendorff play for the Aus. International team in T20Is. The former recently took a fifer iirc and the latter won MOM in a game against India a couple.of months back.

 

[Arham_PakFan]

[MENTION=139765]Arham_PakFan[/MENTION]

The fact that the top players in the world are not playing in the PSL has obviously got to do with scheduling as well. The money in the IPL is obviously far greater, but the likes of de Villiers, Warner, Starc, Stokes, Maxwell etc. will not say no to the money on offered in the PSL if their opportunity cost is low.

However, the PSL is held just before the IPL - and even there is no international cricket at that time - some of these players will not be willing to play because of the risk of getting injured. Even a retired cricketer like Johnson backed out of the PSL because he wanted to save himself for the IPL, which is far more important to these players because of the money involved.

Unless the PSL (a) provides a similar financial package to the IPL (b) provide enough money to question the loyalty of the players to their respective cricket boards, we will not see the top players play in the PSL.

There is a reason why the IPL has a dedicated window - the money involved turned the heads and questioned the loyalties of players. In order to avoid the conflict, the ICC decided to put international cricket on hold when the IPL is going on.

If the PSL can provide similar incentives to the IPL, the ICC will be forced to give it a dedicated window. However, that is not going to happen. Pakistan cricket has a small market in comparison to Indian cricket, and the PCB simply does not have the same resources.

For the same reasons, the PSL will never become what the IPL is today. However, if it is brought back to Pakistan, it has the potential to establish itself ahead of BPL and CPL because the market for Pakistan cricket is bigger than Bangladesh or the Caribbean.

Nonetheless, being number 2 or number 3 means little when the number 1 (IPL) is at a completely different stratosphere.

I never said that PSL is at par with the IPL or better.But,as you said,money is the major reason why players will prefer IPL over PSL(along with the image of PAK’s security situation).No other country can have a similar payscale in their league.Cricketers are humans.They will obviously go to the league that pays them more.I have wanted the PSL schedule to be changed for the last 2 seasons to attract bigger players.

 

[Mamoon]

Get some life bhai. You picked a post in this thread and replied it with a long paragraph just to tell us for thousandth time that PSL is a low class, garbage level league and how great IPL is with the star players and all that.

Most of us agree that IPL is the best league out there. IPL's production quality, pitches and commentary is good although I believe bowling in PSL is better. But what is the point of degrading PSL at every oppurtunity ? It is a decent league right up there with CPL and BBL .

My first post in this thread was a response to a certain poster who claimed that the PSL is the best league around, and that Indian fans have "sour grapes" because of the PSL.

It is like suggesting that a guy driving a Ferrari is jealous of a man driving a Suzuki.

 

[ManFan]

Archer is skipping PSL to rest for IPL.

Christian is a BBL legend.

Tye and Behrendorff play for the Aus. International team in T20Is. The former recently took a fifer iirc and the latter won MOM in a game against India a couple.of months back.

There is no proof he is "resting" for the IPL.
I still have no clue who Christian is.
One 5-wicket-haul does not make someone a superstar. If that was the case, an over the hill Gul would be a top pick.

 

[ManFan]

My first post in this thread was a response to a certain poster who claimed that the PSL is the best league around, and that Indian fans have "sour grapes" because of the PSL.

It is like suggesting that a guy driving a Ferrari is jealous of a man driving a Suzuki.

PSL is not currently the best league in the world.
Some posters do have sour grapes.

 

[Rayyman]

There is no proof he is "resting" for the IPL.
I still have no clue who Christian is.
One 5-wicket-haul does not make someone a superstar. If that was the case, an over the hill Gul would be a top pick.

Okay but he is starting for Aussie team and taking wickets. There is a difference between fifer against Qalandars and England team. He also took a hat trick in last year IPL.

 

[Mamoon]

A point of [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] I failed to address - IPL production quality is better, not because of HD quality cameras, spider-cam, hawkeye, umpire cam, slow-mo or graphics.


but because of......... wait for it........ commentary


) ) ) )



you can't make this stuff up




PP's resident wrist slitter scrapping at the bottom of the barrel yet again.

The commentary and the tv graphics are less of a concern than the other factors in which the PSL is lagging, but these things to matter. They improve the overall experience.

If you watch an over of the PSL and then switch to the IPL, it seems like a completely different experience. The PSL looks very amateurish in comparison, and it is not just the crowd. You can compare the PSL 2017 final experience to the IPL 2017 final; it is like third world vs. first world.

 

[babajee]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is like a broken record.

Ok we get it. IPL is da best with the shooperstars. Go enjoy the IPL whilst we enjoy PSL.

Happy?

 

[ManFan]

Okay but he is starting for Aussie team and taking wickets. There is a difference between fifer against Qalandars and England team. He also took a hat trick in last year IPL.

Sodhi just took 4 wickets against ENG. Does not make him a world class player. Clint McKay took a hat-trick against ENG. Where is he now?

 

[Rayyman]

Sodhi just took 4 wickets against ENG. Does not make him a world class player. Clint McKay took a hat-trick against ENG. Where is he now?

Stop bringing up performances from years ago. Am talking about the most recent series.

 

[Syed1]

The first part of my last post answered it, but I will summarize it here.

I do not have the exact numbers, but obviously, the money that the IPL franchises have at their disposal is quite high compared to their PSL counterparts. As a result, the top players in the world have no incentive to play in the PSL, even if we ignore the scheduling conflicts.

Since the PSL is held right before the IPL, the said players are not going to risk themselves getting injured before the IPL. What Johnson did this year was understandable, even though he has retired from international cricket and has limited earning potential at this point.

Furthermore, the money involved in the IPL was becoming a threat to international cricket. As a result, the ICC decided to give it a dedicated window. For the PSL to avoid the scheduling conflict, it will have to provide similar incentives.

If the PSL is held at a time where there is a considerable gap between the IPL and the PSL and no international cricket is going on, we might see some of the top players like de Villiers etc. who have played in the CPL previously.

So as far PSL's financial muscle i(n comparison to the IPL) is concerned, it is a fact. However, the "too big" for the PSL part is my opinion.

Someone like Joe Root was eager to play in the IPL to improve as a T20 cricketer, but I do not think he will have similar sentiments for the PSL, considering the pool of players that are playing in the PSL.

Playing against a few journeyman T20 cricketers in the middle of a desert with empty stadiums is not the same experience as playing against the top players in the world in packed Indian stadiums.

Ok Round 2:

1. Middle of desert? Dubai and Sharjah are better more developed than any Indian city. I'm sure international stars would much rather come and live in this "dessert" than poor, third world India.

2. What was IPL's financial muscle after first three years? The PSL franchise that got sold this year(MS) was sold for considerably more than the most expensive franchise in the initial auction (KK). The title for the PSL is up for sale after this season, and rough estimates are it will go for atleast three times more. All signs of improving "financial muscle".

3. It's not like all the money involved in the IPL is going in the right place, heck some team bought gully mohallah level Jaydev Unadkhat for a million. He then averaged 13 in 2017 IPL. So much for super duper high quality of the IPL. Heck washed up and old Gautam Gambhir was the second highest run scorer in IPL 2017. So much for big buck international stars.

 

[Mamoon]

[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] is like a broken record.

Ok we get it. IPL is da best with the shooperstars. Go enjoy the IPL whilst we enjoy PSL.

Happy?

When a poster claims that Indian fans have sour grapes because of the PSL which is the best league in the world, what do you expect me to say?

Do you stay quiet when you see someone claim that the Earth is flat?

Take a look at post #42 and blame him, not me.

 

[ManFan]

Stop bringing up performances from years ago. Am talking about the most recent series.

Okay. What do you want to talk about?

 

[Test champion]

phle ghar m to match khel lo fiv bat krna ipl se comaparision ki .kuch to sharm kro

 

[ManFan]

phle ghar m to match khel lo fiv bat krna ipl se comaparision ki .kuch to sharm kro

Sharm? You have had multiple fixing scandals while the PSL has had an unproven case.

 

[babajee]

When a poster claims that Indian fans have sour grapes because of the PSL which is the best league in the world, what do you expect me to say?

Do you stay quiet when you see someone claim that the Earth is flat?

Take a look at post #42 and blame him, not me.

Clearly, Indians like you can not tolerate the success of the PSL.

 

[Rayyman]

Ok Round 2:

1. Middle of desert? Dubai and Sharjah are better more developed than any Indian city. I'm sure international stars would much rather come and live in this "dessert" than poor, third world India.

2. What was IPL's financial muscle after first three years? The PSL franchise that got sold this year(MS) was sold for considerably more than the most expensive franchise in the initial auction (KK). The title for the PSL is up for sale after this season, and rough estimates are it will go for atleast three times more. All signs of improving "financial muscle".

3. It's not like all the money involved in the IPL is going in the right place, heck some team bought gully mohallah level Jaydev Unadkhat for a million. He then averaged 13 in 2017 IPL. So much for super duper high quality of the IPL. Heck washed up and old Gautam Gambhir was the second highest run scorer in IPL 2017. So much for big buck international stars.

Stop talking about Gambhir when in PSL, the 3 of the Top 5 are Akmals and Shehzad. With Kami and Shezzy at 1 and 2 spot. Also Kamran was leading run scorer and MOTS in '17.

 

[Usman Chadda]

[MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION]

There is so much wrong with your post that I do not where to begin. They say ignorance is a bliss, but I think delusion can be a bliss too.

Let me dissect your post word by word, and I will also tag your cheerleaders [MENTION=139765]Arham_PakFan[/MENTION], [MENTION=107441]lonex[/MENTION] [MENTION=143937]ManFan[/MENTION] and [MENTION=143333]Destroyer88[/MENTION], because I think you would need all the help you can to hold onto the straws that you are trying to clutch at.

Point 1: the quality of players

Ben Laughlin, Denly, Ingram, Walton? )

Who cares about these players and what are they worth at an international level? Absolutely nothing. If these players are among the "quality players" of your league, it saying everything that needs to be said about the quality of the pool of players.

McCullum, Watson, Pietersen, Sangakkara etc. are dead cricketers. They have retired from international cricket and only play franchise cricket now, to maximize their post retirement earnings.

If these players are your "major stars", it says everything that needs to be said about the quality of your league.

How many of the top 15-20 cricketers in the world play in the PSL, ignoring the Indian players due to obvious reasons.

de Villiers, Warner, de Kock, Amla, Finch, Rabada, Steyn, Stokes, Buttler, Maxwell, Starc, Cummins, Williamson, Smith, Guptill, Taylor etc. etc. are among the top players in the world today who play in the IPL but do not play in the PSL.

If you get hold of these names, you can brag about the quality of players in your league. Chest-thumping over utter nobodies like Chadwick, Ingram, Denly etc. etc. is embarrassing to say the least.

Seriously, your defense is that X,Y,Z were among the top players in CPL, BBL etc.?

Let me ask again - what are these players worth internationally?

The number of active, top international cricketers that play in the PSL can be counted on one hand - Narine, Tahir, Morgan, Hales and Roy. I might have missed a couple, but that is all the PSL can brag about.

So once again, what was the point you were trying to make?

Point 2: Empty stadiums

You do not have to tell me that the matches in Pakistan will be packed. It is a certainty. However, since you agreed that the low attendance in the UAE is a problem, there is nothing to talk about here. Let's move on to point 3.

Point 3: poor production quality

The commentary is ordinary and the post-match presentations are poor as well. That stupid Head & Shoulders gimmick is simply idiotic. Production quality is not just HD cameras. PSL needs to hire better commentators in the future.

Point 4: Chris Gayle

One bad tournament in 2016 does not mean that Gayle is a walking wicket against the so-called local legendary bowlers.

Let's look at some of the ATGs who have scored heavily in the PSL over the last few seasons:

Shehzad
Kamran
Bopara
Luke Wright

Yes these batsmen are among the greatest batsmen of the game as rated by Wisden, and are simply at a different level to someone like Gayle.

Clearly, the world class local bowlers were not good enough to get the better of these legends and that is why only Gayle in particular struggled against them.

Do you actually think Gayle is inferior to some of the top scorers in PSL history?

Point 5: McClenaghan

He is not among the big stars in the IPL. He is not a big name internationally. Yes he has done well, but so have many no-name players. However, the point that I was trying to make is that he is not an IPL superstar. IPL superstars are playing like de Villiers, Warner, de Kock, Starc, Rabada, Stokes, Maxwell, Smith, Williamson etc. who are too big and expensive for the PSL.

So what was the point of your post? You came all guns blazing but after dissecting your post point by point, it appears that your post was nothing but hot air.

Let's see if your cheerleaders can help you salvage something here.

Your entire post is about the availability of international stars, out of whom four are not considered good T20 players. Quite a poor effort in countering his arguments

On the basis of your argument, IPL is the only decent T20 league in the world while ALL the other leagues are lame. Pretty much contradicts your whole 'PSL is the worst league in the world' philosophy.

 

[Test champion]

Sharm? You have had multiple fixing scandals while the PSL has had an unproven case.

'ulta chor kotwal ko date ' abhi tak fixier team m khel rahe h

 

[Greenstorm]

When a poster claims that Indian fans have sour grapes because of the PSL which is the best league in the world, what do you expect me to say?

Do you stay quiet when you see someone claim that the Earth is flat?

Take a look at post #42 and blame him, not me.

You can either ignore him and stay on topic or can reply without degrading your own league.

 

[MMHS]

When a poster claims that Indian fans have sour grapes because of the PSL which is the best league in the world, what do you expect me to say?

Do you stay quiet when you see someone claim that the Earth is flat?

Take a look at post #42 and blame him, not me.

Chill down man. I wish to watch some part of 2nd game today Today Arsenal game is there as well.

PSL is good, it'll be MUCH better in PAK - no need to compare with other leagues. Only people like (more to do with education & grooming) Razzak would go for such blunt silly statements, which you don't expect from smarter people, even if true. Normally, people go for comparison from insecurity, and only fools make that public.

 

[Mamoon]

Ok Round 2:

1. Middle of desert? Dubai and Sharjah are better more developed than any Indian city. I'm sure international stars would much rather come and live in this "dessert" than poor, third world India.

It is about the experience. Cricket in India has a history and a heritage. The UAE has no history and connection with the game. Similarly, players are not willing to tour Pakistan due to security reasons, but if security was not a problem, these players would have loved to play and make a name for themselves in Pakistan rather than Dubai, because just like India, we have a history.

Players want to perform in Eden Gardens and Gaddafi; not in Dubai.

The experience of playing in Mumbai or Delhi or Lahore or Karachi cannot be matched be playing in modern cities of Dubai and Abu Dhabi.

2. What was IPL's financial muscle after first three years? The PSL franchise that got sold this year(MS) was sold for considerably more than the most expensive franchise in the initial auction (KK). The title for the PSL is up for sale after this season, and rough estimates are it will go for atleast three times more. All signs of improving "financial muscle".

PSL's growth is limited compared to the IPL due to multiple reasons:

- The market for Indian cricket is much bigger.
- India as a country has a much better reputation and public image than Pakistan. Players are more eager to experience the Indian culture and playing in India as opposed to Pakistan.
- the BCCI - because of the Indian market - has far more financial muscle than the PCB.
- Indian cricket has left Pakistan cricket in its dust over the last two decades in terms of producing top players.

Overseas players have an incentive of playing with legends like Kohli, Dhoni etc. It is an honor to share the dressing room with them as opposed to the ATGs that we have produced in the last 10-15 years.

3. It's not like all the money involved in the IPL is going in the right place, heck some team bought gully mohallah level Jaydev Unadkhat for a million. He then averaged 13 in 2017 IPL. So much for super duper high quality of the IPL. Heck washed up and old Gautam Gambhir was the second highest run scorer in IPL 2017. So much for big buck international stars.

With so much transfers happening and so many players available, it is natural that teams will make some bad buys. We have seen that with the PSL as well, even though the pool of players is limited. This not only happens in the PL but happens in all sports in all countries.

Teams in EPL, La Liga, Serie A etc. spend over 50m on players who turn out to be flops. It does not have anything to do with the quality of the league. The IPL is indeed super duper high quality and your whining will not change anything. It is the best and the biggest T20 league in the world and will remain so because of India's resources.

A washed up Gambhir still wipes the floor with all openers in Pakistan, such is the difference between the two countries in terms of quality of batting. He does not get into the Indian team because Dhawan and Rohit are better than him - two players who walk into our all-time ODI XI.

 

[troodon]

IPL = World Cup, PSL = Kitply Cup

IPL = NBA, PSL = Chinese Basketball League.

This is not to shame PSL. But the quality of players, the fan fare, the money involved, the overall production quality are too glaring to ignore.

PSL needs a solid 3 or 4 years of hosting in Pakistan in front of home fans. That is when big sponsors will line up and more money = better quality players. Not some unknown rejects from England/Aus etc.

The day the likes of Smith, Starc, ABD, QDK, Maxwell, Warner, Boult, Finch etc play PSL is the day we can start comparing IPL to PSL.

 

[Mamoon]

Your entire post is about the availability of international stars, out of whom four are not considered good T20 players. Quite a poor effort in countering his arguments

On the basis of your argument, IPL is the only decent T20 league in the world while ALL the other leagues are lame. Pretty much contradicts your whole 'PSL is the worst league in the world' philosophy.

It is not just about whether they are good T20 players are not, it is about the big names. The IPL did not became the giant that it is today because they had good T20 players; they became a giant because they were able to get all the giant players on board.

Guys like Williamson, Amla, Smith, Root etc. are not great T20 players, but PSL franchises would love to have them ahead of some better but unknown T20 players because of their stature.

The PSL at this point is the worst league out there because if we look at all the leagues that have copied the IPL, it has the weakest pool of foreign players along with the BBL. However, the top class atmosphere and production quality of CA has made the BBL look better than it actually is.

If the BBL is played in the UAE, it will not look any better than the PSL. My method of ranking T20 leagues is to look at the quality of foreign players that it has as well as the overall package. If we consider all things, then the PSL at this point is clearly bottom of the pile.

However, it has the potential to become number two if it is held in Pakistan and a few big name players are willing to play. It will never catch the IPL, but there is no reason why it cannot surpass CPL, BPL, BBL etc.

 

[Mamoon]

IPL = World Cup, PSL = Kitply Cup

IPL = NBA, PSL = Chinese Basketball League.

This is not to shame PSL. But the quality of players, the fan fare, the money involved, the overall production quality are too glaring to ignore.

PSL needs a solid 3 or 4 years of hosting in Pakistan in front of home fans. That is when big sponsors will line up and more money = better quality players. Not some unknown rejects from England/Aus etc.

The day the likes of Smith, Starc, ABD, QDK, Maxwell, Warner, Boult, Finch etc play PSL is the day we can start comparing IPL to PSL.

Unfortunately it is too hard for some people to understand, digest or whatever, but it appears that it is hard for people to come to terms with reality.

 

[MenInG]

Is it possible to have a discussion like civilized people?

 

[Savage]

Some silly logics used here.

Saying that Ipl is rubbish because trundler Unadkat was brilliant in last season is akin to saying IPL is far more difficult than International cricket because likes of AB and Kohli failed in last year ipl.

Ipl is in different level to every other league mainly because it has majority of International Stars available.No need to argue against this.It doesn't mean that all the matches of IPL are of high standard.

Aaron finch said the same recently when asked about the difference between IPL and BBL-:

“Obviously, there are more international players available and playing in the IPL, the standard is higher and it’s the ultimate test for a T20 player,”

http://www.sportstarlive.com/cricke...vel-set-bbl-and-ipl-apart/article23258646.ece

 

[Usman Chadda]

It is not just about whether they are good T20 players are not, it is about the big names. The IPL did not became the giant that it is today because they had good T20 players; they became a giant because they were able to get all the giant players on board.

Guys like Williamson, Amla, Smith, Root etc. are not great T20 players, but PSL franchises would love to have them ahead of some better but unknown T20 players because of their stature.

The PSL at this point is the worst league out there because if we look at all the leagues that have copied the IPL, it has the weakest pool of foreign players along with the BBL. However, the top class atmosphere and production quality of CA has made the BBL look better than it actually is.

If the BBL is played in the UAE, it will not look any better than the PSL. My method of ranking T20 leagues is to look at the quality of foreign players that it has as well as the overall package. If we consider all things, then the PSL at this point is clearly bottom of the pile.

However, it has the potential to become number two if it is held in Pakistan and a few big name players are willing to play. It will never catch the IPL, but there is no reason why it cannot surpass CPL, BPL, BBL etc.

'Big names' will never be a possibility until any other league gets a separate window all to itself like the IPL. It's not just about the money or PSL being too insignificant, but the convenience for these international stars that the IPL provides. Australia, South Africa and New Zealand finish their seasons by the time the IPL starts, so there's no real worry of any major consequences through a slight injury etc for their cricketers.

The point about production quality and atmosphere is subjective. To each their own. I enjoy the PSL, as it's geared towards me as a fan of the Pakistan cricket team. Not a real fan of these T20 leagues tbh, and I haven't had the patience nor the interest to watch any other league in the world. The fact that I get to watch younger and untested players of Pakistan domestic cricket play alongside or against some of the best T20 players in the world is good enough for me. Obviously we would all love to have the big names in our league, but it's just not possible for any other board other than the BCCi right now. Let's just appreciate the PSL for the honest effort that it really is and not whine 24/7 about what it does not have.

 

[cricketjoshila]

McClenaghan was fourth highest wicket-taker last season in IPL


Tymal Mills was the most expensive buy a season ago ) )


Bus karde bhai

Neither of them found a buyer in IPL this year.

 

[Rayyman]

Neither of them found a buyer in IPL this year.

I already said you're too late stop stating the obvious

 

[Syed1]

Neither of them found a buyer in IPL this year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting down the IPL. I think it is excellent even though I haven't watched a match in 9 years, but my point was the same players who this certain poster was calling washed up or low class have been picked and performed in the IPL.

 

[cricketjoshila]

At this time when PSL is going on, India,BD,SL,SA,Aus,NZ,Eng,WI are all playing international cricket so its obvious that big superstars of these teams wont play PSL or may only a small number of matches. But most of them will be available for IPL. So ofcourse the IPL teams will have higher calibre players in their team.Lets leave it at that.

Coming to players like Denly or Ingram or Laughlin etc they are decent players, not stars, most may not find a place in the national squad but they are decent players. Bmac Sanga KP despite being old and retired are still decent and have a fan following.

The likes of Hales Morgan etc will play a few matches here and there so overall the teams will be of a reasonable standard with matches of acceptable quality.

PSL is not as bad as [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] describes it to be neither its what [MENTION=138254]Syed1[/MENTION] describes it to be. Its somewhere in between.

 

[blue_champion]

Some of the “patriots” would be better of channeling their patriotism towards their country to help people in need rather than getting offended when someone calls a spade a spade -which is PSL being very poorly produced tournament with hardly any viewer interest( based on the crowd turnout) and bang average 2nd grade reject players or washed up has-beens.

The IPL final is a must watch television event. Likes of Steve Smith were emotional when they lost the final where as 90% of the foreign players refuse to even travel for the finals.

I am not going to laugh at this because that would be making mockery of all the millions of people living in a unsafe environment.

What match quality? Lol a International game can get as one sided as it can be where as a game between Sardar Patel Colony vs Mahatma Gandhi Road May be highly competitive that doesn’t mean the latter is of higher quality

PSL can do its own thing and thrive and grow organically, it’s a delusions of grandeur of a few which result in people digging deep into facts and showing the mirror ast to where it stands today lol.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Why are people obsessed with IPL on this forum?. IPL is no better than any other league.IPL attracts a lot of starts because it offers very lucrative contracts.Secondly the time window for IPL matches is such that international players are available for this competition .T20 is just entertainment nothing more.The quality of PSL is not bad at all.Those who don't want to watch PSL are free not to do so.I don't watch any IPL matches but many people do.People keep talking about spectators but they forget that PSL is held outside Pakistan.IPL is held in India which has a population of close to 2billion so IPL will always attract more spectators.

 

[CanadianG00se]

Why are people obsessed with IPL on this forum?. IPL is no better than any other league.IPL attracts a lot of starts because it offers very lucrative contracts.Secondly the time window for IPL matches is such that international players are available for this competition .T20 is just entertainment nothing more.The quality of PSL is not bad at all.Those who don't want to watch PSL are free not to do so.I don't watch any IPL matches but many people do.People keep talking about spectators but they forget that PSL is held outside Pakistan.IPL is held in India which has a population of close to 2billion so IPL will always attract more spectators.

First Bold part, I completely agree that T20 games are just meant for entertaintment purpose. I dont know why some folks always try to compare its cricketing skills.

Second bold part, Whaaattttt

 

[CricCrazyNick]

Why are people obsessed with IPL on this forum?. IPL is no better than any other league.IPL attracts a lot of starts because it offers very lucrative contracts.Secondly the time window for IPL matches is such that international players are available for this competition .T20 is just entertainment nothing more.The quality of PSL is not bad at all.Those who don't want to watch PSL are free not to do so.I don't watch any IPL matches but many people do.People keep talking about spectators but they forget that PSL is held outside Pakistan.IPL is held in India which has a population of close to 2billion so IPL will always attract more spectators.

I have seen many posters like you on ths forum who keep claiming that they haven't watch a single IPL game n blah blah
And I really don't understand what they wanna prove with ths kinda comments
I hardly seen any Indian poster who said I haven't seen any PSL match kind of stuff

On one side u sayng u dont watch any IPL matches and other side u sayng IPL is no better league than any other league out thr
How u came to ths conclusion without watchng the stuff mate....Confused Soul

 

[Titan24]

While IPL (If fixing free) is a pretty good league, I cant believe some people here saying qulaity foreign players in PSL is bad.

Watson
Dumminy
Peitersen
Sammy
Sanga
Tahir
Pollard
Roy
Hales
Russel
Morgan
Mills
Bmac
Narine
Mustafizur
Mcclaneghan
Abbot
Archer
Hastings
Laughlin
Ingram
Ronchi
Tamim
Billings
Jordan
Russouw
Bravo


Like seriously guys how is it a poor roster of foreign players 10 times better than BBL CPL. Add with it the local Pakistani talent (Pak is no1 ranked T20 team) it really is a super league.

 

[IndianFan2018]

They have templates for posts

I have not watched any IPL match so far . < Insert any comment here >

For any T29 league to scceeed own country fans must watch in huge numbers, neutral fans are bonus.

IPL/BCCI will target to get eyeballs from Indian viewers, similarly BBL/CA targets OZ crowd.

So, neutrals watching or not did not mean a jack for IPL's growth.

To put things into perspective, IPL is currently bigger than ICC world events in market value. Reason BCCI/IPL captured Indian audience with proper planning and marketing in last 10 years 2

PS: Instead of degrading IPL, upcoming T20 leagues should take learnings and grow, the same happens in every business in the world. Success creates lessons for others to follow

 

[IndianFan2018]

For any T29 league to scceeed own country fans must watch in huge numbers, neutral fans are bonus.

IPL/BCCI will target to get eyeballs from Indian viewers, similarly BBL/CA targets OZ crowd.

So, neutrals watching or not did not mean a jack for IPL's growth.

To put things into perspective, IPL is currently bigger than ICC world events in market value. Reason BCCI/IPL captured Indian audience with proper planning and marketing in last 10 years 2

PS: Instead of degrading IPL, upcoming T20 leagues should take learnings and grow, the same happens in every business in the world. Success creates lessons for others to follow

Correction *T20 league..damn typo error there !

 

[Napa]

I don't understand this obsession with things Indian. PSL is a new league and has made fantastic progress in a short time. The people who made it happen should be proud of their achievement.

No need to compare to IPL, just focus on making PSL better.

 

[Titan24]

I don't understand this obsession with things Indian. PSL is a new league and has made fantastic progress in a short time. The people who made it happen should be proud of their achievement.

No need to compare to IPL, just focus on making PSL better.

Good sensible post.

 

[MenInG]

Basically best if everyone be happy with what they have got!

 

[letme alone]

While IPL (If fixing free) is a pretty good league, I cant believe some people here saying qulaity foreign players in PSL is bad.

Watson
Dumminy
Peitersen
Sammy
Sanga
Tahir
Pollard
Roy
Hales
Russel
Morgan
Mills
Bmac
Narine
Mustafizur
Mcclaneghan
Abbot
Archer
Hastings
Laughlin
Ingram
Ronchi
Tamim
Billings
Jordan
Russouw
Bravo


Like seriously guys how is it a poor roster of foreign players 10 times better than BBL CPL. Add with it the local Pakistani talent (Pak is no1 ranked T20 team) it really is a super league.

yarrr! problem is if they play other league its very good league. since psl is poor league no mater who r playing. when i have habit to comment negatively so what can you do.

 

[letme alone]

I don't understand this obsession with things Indian. PSL is a new league and has made fantastic progress in a short time. The people who made it happen should be proud of their achievement.

No need to compare to IPL, just focus on making PSL better.

good post

 

[blue_champion]

I don't understand this obsession with things Indian. PSL is a new league and has made fantastic progress in a short time. The people who made it happen should be proud of their achievement.

No need to compare to IPL, just focus on making PSL better.

Good post. The problem is not Pakistan having its own league. Hell even I believe Afghanistan have their own T20 league now.

The people who run PSL have the right intentions to grow the league organically which is good even though I feel Sethi tends to try and run before he can learn to walk which is a debate for another day.

However the problem is with the delusions of grandeur of some fans(a decent portion here) as to how PSL is superior to IPL lol. Clearly you can see the pattern among even the ex Pakistani cricketers like the title of this thread and others.

Take Bangladesh league for example, a well run league with a decent fan base but surprisingly even Bangladesh fans known for their over the top emotions and bravado take the league for what it is. Dare I say it is more established than PSL at this stage because of all the logistic issues PSL has.

There was a thread as to how Gayle was absolutely thrown out with total disdain to maintain the supposedly high quality PSL. I mean sure if such things are fed to the common illiterate guy on the streets of Lahore and Karachi makes sense but fans who follow and understand cricket saying it really

Simple...Gayle is a global superstar and he doesn’t come cheap.based on his current form and PSL’s shoe string budget and his availability playing the Wc qualifiers it is not worth the investment and it was a smart move by the franchises but that is some how turned into how IPL goes for hacks like Gayle etc...really? A guy who is a box office attraction and one of the greatest T20 performers of all time. On the other hand Gayle went for his base price in IPL which has a lot more leeway in its budget and more teams, so getting a superstar and a brand value like Gayle for peanuts is a huge win for the league. How difficult it is to grasp for some folk?

IPL having a window is not a reason for IPL’s success, IPL’s success and popularity is what got it a window by ICC in the first place but that fact conveniently goes over people’s heads.

A lot of false bravado statements are ignored for obvious reasons as we need to avoid taking the bait,However it is fun to hold the mirror at times for the delusional types lol.

 

[Syed1]

You are confusing the quality to competitiveness.. Poor teams can be competitive too.. look at the world cup qualifiers and matches before that.. Two equally matched teams can produce good competitive match, even if they have poor quality players, like Nepal did in the last few weeks..

Just logged in to catch some cricket.. Wow Kamran is back.. do you guys think he will be back in National team? didn't see his innings so I don't know how good it was.. just commenting based on CI scoreboard..

So let me get this straight, so far the list of things that do not matter as per [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] and Indians


1. No high scoring matches - PSL had 28 scores of 150 plus in the 29 completed matches (58 innings). A team is hitting a 150+ score in every match. Definitely a pretty high number.

2. Roster of foreign players is bad - the same players have been picked and performed in the IPL they weren't bad when they were playing there were they?

3. The quality of bowling is overhyped - Unadkhat who is a certified gully mohallah level bowler averaged 13 in the IPL. Compare that to best bowlers in PSL this year, Ashraf, Riaz and Tahir are all miles ahead of Unadkhat.


4. The quality of batsmanship is bad - K. Akmal, Watson, Azam, Ronchi, Zaman are the top run getters this season. K. Akmal has won his nation a T20 world cup he is by no means a slouch T20 batsman. Azam is the top ranked T20 batsman in the world. Being an Indian you would very well know what Zaman is capable of. We all know what Watson can do. Sunil Narine was the fourth highest run scorer in IPL, I didn't see you lot talking about batsmanship then.


5. The stadiums are empty and there is no atmosphere - the stadiums have been 50-75% packed on Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays. Today was jam packed and filled to the brim. The PSL is not held in Pakistan, if it were we would have 75% full stadiums even on weekdays. Heck I've caught a glimpse of a few IPL matches last year involving that Punjab side and the stadiums weren't even half full.

This should answer all your concerns.



PSL is a good league, with high standard competitive cricket. Doesn't matter what you Indians or pseudo-Indians say. You have built up this castle in your mind that PSL is bad and making logic on the fly just to fit that criteria while I have systematically debunked all of your stupid logic.