Indiafan
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2006
- Runs
- 19,664
- Post of the Week
- 8
Ironically, in the west, chants of go is used to cheer someone on
-
Contact the PP Team
PTI's Tsunami March on 14th August [Mega Thread]
- Thread starter saadibaba
- Start date
Saeed
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2010
- Runs
- 10,077
Fastandfurious
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2014
- Runs
- 6,180
Ironically, we are living in the east. It's a Pakistani thing "ja yaar ja" when we tell someone to get lost. In Nawaz's case, we are telling him to get lost from the country.
Last edited:
Good thing this nation has woken up. This noora can't make anyone fool now with his blatant lies. Another lie caught!!!
<div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script>
<div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152422743514527" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152422743514527">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/PTIOfficial">Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf</a>.</div></div>
Does this man even has some SHAME left? Trying to do politics over flood victims by lying that they had NO warning?!?!!
He knows; the ENTIRE NATION wants him out because everyone knows he is an illegal rigging by-product!!
First people in Kashmir chanting "Go Nawaz GO" during his fake speech, now this plethora of lies.
Caught red handed, YET again.
<div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script>
<div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152422743514527" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152422743514527">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/PTIOfficial">Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf</a>.</div></div>
Does this man even has some SHAME left? Trying to do politics over flood victims by lying that they had NO warning?!?!!
He knows; the ENTIRE NATION wants him out because everyone knows he is an illegal rigging by-product!!
First people in Kashmir chanting "Go Nawaz GO" during his fake speech, now this plethora of lies.
Caught red handed, YET again.
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
PMLN Response to Rigging Allegations by PTI
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:
Elections 2013 were historic in many ways. This was the first time that elections were being held after the completion of 5-year tenure of a democratically elected government. For the first time in Pakistan’s history, the elections were to be held under the neutral caretaker set up. This was possible based on the historic 20th constitutional amendment that defined the process for the setting up of neutral caretaker set ups at the federal as well as the four provincial levels. The fact that neutral caretaker set ups had taken place within a matter of 9 days from the date of dissolution of the assemblies speaks volumes of the maturity of the political class. It is also important to note that PML-N had not a single nominee in the neutral caretaker set up. Even in Punjab, the neutral caretaker chief minister was Mr. Najam Sethi who was the nominee of PPP.
For the first time in Pakistan’s history, the appointment of Chief Election Commissioner was done with the consensus of all political parties within the parliament and others outside the parliament e.g. Jamaat e Islami, PTI, etc. Justice Fakhrudding G. Ibrahim is an outstanding personality who is well respected throughout Pakistan for his competence, integrity and independence. He was one of the very few judges of the Supreme Court who withstood the pressure from the military dictator General Zia and refused to take the oath under Martial Law. Prior to the appointment of Justice Fakhrudding G. Ibrahim, Imran Khan was not only consulted by Chaudhry Nisar, then leader of the opposition, but his consent was also taken. Imran Khan is on record to have given his consent to this appointment.
For the first time in the history, the voter lists were prepared using the computerized NADRA database with pictures / CNIC numbers. The election commission ran a vigorous campaign through SMS / promotion through newspapers urging people to verify their votes.
PML-N’s margin of victory in most cases was significant to cast any doubt on the overall results. Consider the following:
There are 51 NA seats where margin of win for PML-N candidates is more than 70,000.
There are 81 seats where margin of win is more than 50,000
There are 97 seats where PML-N candidates won with a margin of more than 40,000 votes.
In addition, there were 55 constituencies where PTI candidates lost security deposit in Punjab.
There were 10 seats where PTI did not put up any candidate in Punjab.
Therefore on 65 seats representing 44 % of the total NA seats, PTI does not have any case to challenge the PML-N victory. This is a very high percentage for any party claiming that its election mandate has been stolen.
Main Reasons for PTI Electoral Defeat:
After the 2013 elections, Chairman PTI had appointed a 3-member committee to determine the causes of PTI’s defeat in the elections. Summary of their finding is as follows:
Intra party elections. The committee said that the party elections just months before the general elections was an ill-conceived idea. It created serious internal rifts as a result of accusations and counter accusations. The results of intra party elections were generally rejected by a vast majority of candidates, which was covered by the entire media. A committee set up to investigate the serious charges of rigging in the intra party elections has failed to resolve more than 10 % of the complaints even after a lapse of more than 18 months.
Corruption in distribution of tickets / Merit not the consideration in award of tickets. The party found out that financial irregularities were committed in the award of tickets to candidates. Tickets were distributed in many instances based on bribes. It is strange that a party, which is championing the cause of eliminating corruption from the society itself, was found in serious corrupt practices. The committee concluded that tickets were not given on merit. Imran Khan has been consistently talking about introducing merit in the country. On what basis can he claim to promote merit when he could not even implement the same in his own party? In spite of several complaints of corruption, the party chairman did not take action even in a single instance.
Campaign was not in line with ground reality. The committee’s view was that the election campaign was poorly managed and did not take into account the ground realities. It focused primarily in the urban areas completely ignoring the majority of voters living in rural areas.
Secretary General was dysfunctional. The committee found out that the secretary general was completely dysfunctional and did not play the role required of a secretary general. He had no coordination of the campaign and was primarily focused on his own seat.
Lack of training of polling agents. The party’s polling agents were not properly trained for the most important challenge that the party faced in its 18-year existence. In an interview Imran Khan accepted that the polling agents were not properly trained for this difficult task. The polling agents had no objection to the counting of the votes and did not raise issues on the polling day and subsequently in the professional manner required of them.
The report also highlights the grievances of party office bearers and workers against Imran Khan who, they complained, does not give them due importance. They held Imran Khan and other top leaders responsible for the mess in ticket distribution as all the decisions were taken by them, the report points out. Assessment of the candidates was done in a very “hush hush” manner, said the report.
Explaining the trouble caused by the intra-party elections shortly before the national polls, the report said it caused rivalries, grouping and personal animosity that seriously affected the unity and enthusiasm of PTI during the general elections.
Imran Khan has failed to take any action on its internal party report and instead decided to push the blame of his defeat in GE 2013 on PMLN. We now come to the specific allegations and charges made by Imran Khan based on which he has concluded that elections were massively rigged and PTI was denied the mandate of the people.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has said that there was mass scale rigging in Punjab resulting in the mandate being stolen from PTI.
Our Response:
This allegation is refuted based on following facts:
All election surveys conducted by independent international and national institutions had predicted PML-N victory at federal and Punjab levels while they foretold PPPP’s victory in Sindh and PTI’s victory in KPK. Some of the institutions / groups which had predicted a clear and outright victory for PMLN included Economist London, International Republican Institute (IRI), Gallup International, PEW, Reuters and others. In addition all local survey groups and publications had predicted PMLN victory.
Post election survey and research published by UNDP, PILDAT, FAFEN and others have shown confidence in transparency and accountability of 2013 General Elections.
The electoral process was monitored by several leading international and local organizations such as the US-based National Democratic Institute, the European Union, Fafen (according to Fafen report …2013 elections were by and large free and fair and transparent) and others.
NDI and EU have been monitoring elections in Pakistan for the last several years and both concluded that the May 2013 elections were fairer than any previous election.
PILDAT, which is one of the best recognized NGO also concluded that May 2013 elections were better in every respect than any previous elections.
From a total of 577 provincial assembly seats, PTI filed complaint on just 28 seats representing just 4. 8 % of the total seats. It is strange that the party claiming that there has been mass scale rigging in a very planned way, no more than only 28 candidates out of a total of 577 believed there was rigging in their constituencies. If mass scale rigging had taken place, the complaints filed would have been in hundreds at the national and provincial level. At the national assembly level, the total complaints filed were just 30 out of the total of 272 national assembly seats. Out of these 30, 19 pertain to Punjab, 5 to Sindh, and 6 to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. PTI would not be able to form government at the national level or in Punjab even if PTI candidates would be declared winners in all the seats where PTI had filed election related complaints. Additionally, it is pertinent to mention here that of the 84 pending cases in both and NA and PA constituencies, only 8 cases of PTI are pending against PMLN in the NA constituencies and, 8 cases are pending in the Provincial constituencies.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has said that there was conspiracy as a result of which 35 NA seats were gifted to PML-N. According to Imran, there was a phone conversation between Caretaker Chief Minister and Mr. Shahbaz Sharif alleging that the CM confirmed having punctured 35 NA seats in favor of PML-N. In these 35 seats, the difference between the winner and runner up is less than the rejected votes and therefore it is assumed that if these votes had not been rejected, PTI would have gained and won these 35 seats.
Our Response:
Perhaps the PTI chief is missing the main point: There are only six seats in which PTI was a runner up. So even if we concede that all the rejected votes in these six constituencies will go to PTI, it still just gets six more seats. So what is this myth of 35 punctures? The PML-N won just 12 of these 35 seats that Imran Khan is speaking of; yet the way these so-called punctures are being presented makes it look like that PML-N has somehow been ‘gifted’ all 35 seats through a well planned conspiracy.
Also there are only 2 seats out of these 35 where PTI is runner up against PML-N so at best PML-N would have lost 2 seats vs. PTI.
A very important fact is that according to Imran Khan this 35 punctures were the gift from Najam Sethi who managed to get 35 seats as a gift to PML-N. The point to remember is that out of these 35 seats, only 15 relate to Punjab, KPK 5, FATA 3, Sindh 5 & Baluchistan 7. How can Punjab care taker chief minister manage not only 15 Punjab related seats but was also able to rig the 20 seats outside his domain?
Allegation:
Imran has repeatedly alleged that in every constituency up to 60,000 to 70,000 votes cast were invalid votes. In support of his allegation he says that Chaudhry Nisar had said this in the National Assembly.
Our Response:
Chaudhry Nisar addressed the issue of thumb verification and explained that a large number of thumb impression may not be verified. Thumb printing verification requires NADRA database cross-references to fingerprints that were taken during elections on the ballot. However they were not taken professionally due to lack of trained staff and the quality of ink used rather than the special magnetic ink. Thumb printing verification or the lack thereof however is not proof alone for the votes to be termed as fake. Imran Khan should know that every vote cast is valid whether or not thumb impression is verifiable or many votes because the thumb impression were not duly preserved due to low quality of ink used by the Election Commission of Pakistan hence may not be identifiable. The mandate of the people would be stolen if such votes are not counted due to above-mentioned reasons. How can Imran Khan rate 2002 elections as better than 2013 when fingerprinting was also not possible or for that matter in 2008 Elections? Thumb verification is also not possible in constituencies that have been won by PTI candidates. Does it mean that none of the PTI candidates including Imran Khan won with bogus votes as he consistently claims? If thumb verification is the ultimate reason to define the integrity of elections, then how does Imran Khan rate 1970 as the most independent elections in our history when there was no thumb impression possible. We also need to emphasis that selection of ink or any other material was the sole prerogative of the election commission and had nothing to do with PML-N or any of its leaders. Also PML-N did not benefit out of any sub standard quality of ink used, as such votes would be equally shared among the candidates.
Besides the thumb verification process, there are multiple other ways to ensure the voter verification. Those include:
Voters are able to cast their votes at specified polling stations according to their names in the electoral rolls. Once at the front of the queue the voter is required to show his / her original identity card to the polling officer who does a name check in the voters list and mark off the voter from the list.
The picture and information about the identification mark present on the CNIC also serves as a strong security check.
As this is done, the polling officer loudly calls out his / her name and serial number from the voter list. This facilitates all the polling agents of various political parties to verify the same from their electoral lists.
The officer then applies an indelible ink on the individual thumb to show that he / she has cast his vote and strike his name from the voter list so that he / she cannot cast multiple votes.
At this point the voter moves to the presiding officer who also notes down the details from the voters CNIC and after satisfying himself / herself about the identity of the voter issues a ballot paper. He too marks off on his / her list at this point.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has repeatedly said that one of the contributors towards his electoral loss is due to very high number of rejected votes. He claims the number of rejected votes is significantly higher compared to previous elections.
Our Response:
Based on the actual data, Imran Khan’s allegation does not hold true. For example the number of rejected votes per 1000 were 24 in 2002 elections, 28 in 2008 elections and are 32 per 1000 in 2013 elections. This is by no stretch of imagination significantly higher number compared to previous 2 elections, considering that total turn out in GE 2013 is significantly more than previous election.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has consistently maintained that he has been undone in the 4 NA seats for which he has been requesting to open up these as a test case. He claims that if these 4 seats are reopened, perhaps the entire election results will be exposed.
Our Response:
PTI had filed petitions with the Election Tribunals for these 4 seats. As such it was for the election tribunals and not the PML-N government to investigate these cases. Under no law can the executive perform such functions nor can it interfere in the election tribunal process. Under what law, only PTI’s 4 constituencies could have been opened? Would it have been fair if only PTI’s 4 constituencies would only be opened while other party’s cases in election tribunal would be completely ignored? In any case, once the candidates have filed their cases with the election tribunal, it is ‘opened’.
Second, an impression has been created that PML-N is opposed to recounting of votes. Imran has never asked for recounting of votes. He has asked for the thumb verification, which according to all experts is not possible as has been explained in detail above. Now lets look at each of the 4 seats under discussion:
The first one is Jehangir Tareen’s seat on which Imran has been conveying an impression that PML-N somehow rigged the elections in its favor. In his press conference on Aug. 11, 2014, Imran again talked about this seat in particular and said that the results started changing only after the speech of Mohammad Nawaz Sharif, which then allowed the Returning officer there to rig the elections in favor of PML-N candidate. The interesting thing is that independent candidate won from that seat while PML-N candidate was a distant 3rd.
The second seat is NA 110 where Khawaja Asif won the elections. The PTI candidate filed the petition against election irregularities. Interestingly, there were zero irregularities observed in this constituency as compared to 55 irregularities in NA 1 from where Khan Sahib won the elections. In any case, the PTI candidate never appeared in the tribunal in spite of notices sent to him. Finally the tribunal penalized the petitioner for Rs 30,000 for non-appearance. The Petitioner has now filed an appeal in Supreme Court.
In NA 125 from where Khawaja Saad Rafique won, PTI has been most vociferous in its demand for vote verification although the margin of defeat for PTI candidate is around 38921. Recounting has been ordered in 7 polling stations. It is interesting to note that in polling stations where recounting has been ordered, 6 out of 7 polling stations, Hamid Khan has won the election. In the entire election process where 2,17,762 votes were cast not even a single vote was challenged. This was one of the Constituency where Army was deployed. In the order passed by Lahore Election Tribunal, the Honourable Judge noted that the Petitioner was trying to dictate the order and hence the matter had to be transferred from Lahore to Faisalabad Election Tribunal.
The fourth seat is NA 122 where Sardar Ayaz Sadiq won against Imran Khan. After the elections, Imran filed a petition with the election tribunal. In 8 months after the filing of the petition, Imran was issued 11 notices but did not appear even once. Finally when Khan appeared on May 7, 2014, his supporters created mayhem breaking things within the premises of the high court. The judge left the court and refused to undertake the court proceedings and the case was adjourned. Imran finally apologized. To put the blame on PML-N or the candidate is misleading the entire nation. On September 4, 2014,the High Court wanted to take a decision but Imran’s lawyer requested for yet another adjournment next date of hearing is September 10, 2014
Allegation:
Imran has said that the reason for going to the long march is that they have been trying to get justice for 14 months without any positive response.
Our Response:
PTI had filed a total of 58 complaints with the election tribunal. Out of these, 39 have been disposed off and only 19 remain. So it is wrong to conclude that no petitions have been heard. In almost all cases, the election tribunals have disposed off the PTI complaints based on lack of evidence or witnesses and without any proof of rigging. It is a standard practice all over the world that courts would dispose of a case if in its view the petition were not backed by enough evidence of the wrongdoing. If PTI considers it has not received a fair response, the issue is entirely with the judiciary and the government cannot be blamed for any delay in disposing of justice. It should also be noted that the 4 respective chief justices of the high courts set up the election tribunals and only retired judges of the high courts were appointed so that the cases could be disposed off on urgent basis. Compared to all previous elections, the tribunals have disposed off the cases much faster. Till the end of August 2014, 80 % of the cases have been disposed off.
Allegation:
Election tribunals are totally biased against PTI.
Our Response:
The 4 chief justices have appointed the judges for the election tribunals. By showing disregard to the functioning of the election tribunals, Imran is actually showing lack of faith in the integrity of the 4 chief justices.
Allegation:
Imran has accused just about everyone for being part of the conspiracy to deprive PTI its just electoral mandate. He has accused Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, then Chief Justice of Supreme Court, the 4 provincial Chief Justices, the Chief Election Commissioner and the 4 provincial chief election commissioners. His party’s Deputy Information Secretary in a TV interview also accused Gen. Kiyani of being part of the conspiracy. Imran also alleged that a Brig of MI was also part of the conspiracy. He promised to name the Brig. During the Sialkot jalsa but so far has not come up with any name. He has also accused several other people such as Justice Ramday, Punjab Finance Secretary and several others.
Our Response:
All the people accused by Imran Khan have strongly refuted the allegations of Imran Khan. The election commission has already refuted Imran’s claims of being part of the rigging conspiracy. Also Justice Ifktikhar Chaudhry has issued Defamation notice to Imran to apologize or be ready to face the judicial process. Justice Ramday likewise has also said that he will take Imran to the court.
Most of the allegations by Imran are without any substance and are based on unsubstantiated media reports or simply on some party member’s complaint.
Allegation:
Imran has consistently alleged that PML-N was actively involved in the conspiracy to rig the electoral process at all stages – pre election, Election Day rigging and post election manipulation.
Our Response:
PML-N has had no role in the entire process. As explained separately, none of the PML-N nominee was appointed as neutral caretaker chief minister in any of the province. Mr. Najam Sethi’s name was proposed by PPP and not by PML-N. After assuming power as caretaker chief minister, Najam Sethi transferred a total of 14 senior ranking officials who were closely identified with Mr. Shahbaz Sharif. In his rejoinder Najam Sethi claims that he has filed a suit of defamation against Imran Khan, besides as care taker Chief Minister he changed all secretaries except 4. He did not change the education secretary because, on the request of the UK High Commissioner to Pakistan, He did not want to disrupt the UK Education Aid program worth US$500m earmarked for the Punjab province. He did not change the home secretary because Home Minister Tariq Pervez recommended him as an upright and efficient officer. He did not change the health secretary, despite objections from the PML-N that his real sister was contesting on a PTI ticket from a Lahore constituency, because he was handling the measles epidemic in the province and He didn’t want any disruption in the effort. He didn’t change the finance secretary because the new chief secretary Javed Iqbal, a Pashtun, whom I brought in from Islamabad, recommended him as an honest and efficient officer. Najam Sethi appointed a number of officials closely associated with Mr. Pervez Elahi. Some of the senior officials who had closely worked with Mr. Shahbaz Sharif who were transferred included Dr. Tauqir Shah, Fawad Hasan, Barrister Nabeel, Noor Mengal and Ali Jan.
PTI members took oath as members of the National & Provisional Assemblies and accepted Mian Nawaz Sharif as a constitutionally elected Prime Minister.
Allegation:
Imran has alleged that a significant number of ballot papers were printed at a private bazar in Lahore.
Our Response:
The Election Commission has denied this outrageous charge by Imran Khan. According to the Election Commission, ballot papers were printed at Printing Corporation of Pakistan under Army’s supervision. The santity of the ballot paper was ensured as per SOP’s of Election Commission of Pakistan. Notwithstanding, PML-N had no role in this process.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has alleged that everything was going right till 11.23 pm on May 11, 2013. At this stage according to Imran, only 15 % or so election results were known. At this stage, Mian Nawaz Sharif addressed the PML-N workers gathered at PML-N HQ, which was widely covered by all networks. According to Imran this address was done under a conspiracy that also involved Justice Ramday and the objective was to influence the election results with a clear message to the returning officers.
Our Response:
There can be nothing more outrageous than this allegation. By this time all media networks, analyst, independent observers had already given the elections to
PML-N. Much before this time when all major networks had predicted PML-N’s outright victory. For example at 10.48 pm, Javed Chaudhry at Express News announced that PML-N is getting a simple majority. That is no more the question according to Javed Chaudhry. The panels there were discussing the challenges ahead for the PML-N government. In fact, the outcome of the overall results was clear as early as 8 pm based on the final results as well as the partial results from various constituencies. As the counting takes place, the partial results are communicated by all networks and based on the lead, it is fairly easy to predict the eventual winner. This is the practice not just in Pakistan but also even in advanced democracies such as United States where various networks do election predictions based on the margin of votes in each constituency. The tsunami, as PTI wrongly expected, was not coming and that was known as early as 7 pm based on early counting of votes.
It is not just Mian Nawaz Sharif who claimed victory for PML-N; PTI senior leader Asad Umar also shared the same. In an interview with famous TV anchor Kamran Khan, Asad not only conceded defeat but also claimed that his party is winning elections in KPK and will form the government there. How did Asad Umar know of the eventual election results at that time? Asad was PTI’s campaign manager and in absence of Imran Khan, who was in the hospital, was in the best position to understand the overall results. All other senior leaders such as Jehangir Tareen, Arif Alvi, Shafqat Mahmood, Shah Mahmood Qureshi, and Javed Hashmi were in their constituencies and could not have the macro view of the election trends in the country.
There was no visible change in the assessment of the election results before and after the speech of Mian Nawaz Sharif. The final results were more or less in line with the assessment and proportion.
Justice Khalil Ramday was never even remotely engaged in the PMLN election cell and any reference towards him is a blatant lie, false and hence vehemently denied.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has alleged that UNDP workers in various constituencies were told to close their operations after Mian Nawaz Sharif’s address. This according to Imran was done to ensure that Returning Officers could manipulate results, which would not be possible in the presence of UNDP workers.
Our Response:
This is a totally baseless allegation, which has been denied by UNDP Country Director in a recent interview. In any case, the UNDP facility was provided on a very limited scale. This was done on a sample basis by UNDP on a very limited number of constituencies. The truth however as confirmed by UNDP Country Director is that no UNDP worker was told to pack up after the Muhammad Nawaz Sharif’s speech.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has alleged that election results were manipulated resulting in the loss for PTI candidates.
Our Response:
Election results are compiled and communicated to the Returning Officers by the Presiding Officers in every constituency. In each constituency, there are several polling stations managed by Presiding Officers. Once the votes have been counted, the presiding officer completes form XIV reflecting the number of votes obtained by each party candidate. Representative of every party confirming the accuracy and integrity of the vote count then signs the form. The same is then submitted to the Returning Officer who would then consolidate the overall constituency result and submit the same to the election commission.
If the vote count was not authentic, PTI polling agents should have complained at that point to the Presiding Officer or to the Election Commission of Pakistan.
FAFEN had 41,000 workers in all constituencies inside the polling stations. Apart from other activities, they had also established what was known as alternate election result tabulation. FAFEN representatives tabulated and compiled their own results completely independent of the Returning Officers results. Out of total 266 national assembly constituencies contested on May 11th, FAFEN and Returning Officers / Election Commission had the same winner in 264 seats. How then it is claimed that the RO’s were the main contributors towards electoral fraud.
http://pkpolitics.com/2014/09/10/pmln-response-to-rigging-allegations-by-pti/
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:
Elections 2013 were historic in many ways. This was the first time that elections were being held after the completion of 5-year tenure of a democratically elected government. For the first time in Pakistan’s history, the elections were to be held under the neutral caretaker set up. This was possible based on the historic 20th constitutional amendment that defined the process for the setting up of neutral caretaker set ups at the federal as well as the four provincial levels. The fact that neutral caretaker set ups had taken place within a matter of 9 days from the date of dissolution of the assemblies speaks volumes of the maturity of the political class. It is also important to note that PML-N had not a single nominee in the neutral caretaker set up. Even in Punjab, the neutral caretaker chief minister was Mr. Najam Sethi who was the nominee of PPP.
For the first time in Pakistan’s history, the appointment of Chief Election Commissioner was done with the consensus of all political parties within the parliament and others outside the parliament e.g. Jamaat e Islami, PTI, etc. Justice Fakhrudding G. Ibrahim is an outstanding personality who is well respected throughout Pakistan for his competence, integrity and independence. He was one of the very few judges of the Supreme Court who withstood the pressure from the military dictator General Zia and refused to take the oath under Martial Law. Prior to the appointment of Justice Fakhrudding G. Ibrahim, Imran Khan was not only consulted by Chaudhry Nisar, then leader of the opposition, but his consent was also taken. Imran Khan is on record to have given his consent to this appointment.
For the first time in the history, the voter lists were prepared using the computerized NADRA database with pictures / CNIC numbers. The election commission ran a vigorous campaign through SMS / promotion through newspapers urging people to verify their votes.
PML-N’s margin of victory in most cases was significant to cast any doubt on the overall results. Consider the following:
There are 51 NA seats where margin of win for PML-N candidates is more than 70,000.
There are 81 seats where margin of win is more than 50,000
There are 97 seats where PML-N candidates won with a margin of more than 40,000 votes.
In addition, there were 55 constituencies where PTI candidates lost security deposit in Punjab.
There were 10 seats where PTI did not put up any candidate in Punjab.
Therefore on 65 seats representing 44 % of the total NA seats, PTI does not have any case to challenge the PML-N victory. This is a very high percentage for any party claiming that its election mandate has been stolen.
Main Reasons for PTI Electoral Defeat:
After the 2013 elections, Chairman PTI had appointed a 3-member committee to determine the causes of PTI’s defeat in the elections. Summary of their finding is as follows:
Intra party elections. The committee said that the party elections just months before the general elections was an ill-conceived idea. It created serious internal rifts as a result of accusations and counter accusations. The results of intra party elections were generally rejected by a vast majority of candidates, which was covered by the entire media. A committee set up to investigate the serious charges of rigging in the intra party elections has failed to resolve more than 10 % of the complaints even after a lapse of more than 18 months.
Corruption in distribution of tickets / Merit not the consideration in award of tickets. The party found out that financial irregularities were committed in the award of tickets to candidates. Tickets were distributed in many instances based on bribes. It is strange that a party, which is championing the cause of eliminating corruption from the society itself, was found in serious corrupt practices. The committee concluded that tickets were not given on merit. Imran Khan has been consistently talking about introducing merit in the country. On what basis can he claim to promote merit when he could not even implement the same in his own party? In spite of several complaints of corruption, the party chairman did not take action even in a single instance.
Campaign was not in line with ground reality. The committee’s view was that the election campaign was poorly managed and did not take into account the ground realities. It focused primarily in the urban areas completely ignoring the majority of voters living in rural areas.
Secretary General was dysfunctional. The committee found out that the secretary general was completely dysfunctional and did not play the role required of a secretary general. He had no coordination of the campaign and was primarily focused on his own seat.
Lack of training of polling agents. The party’s polling agents were not properly trained for the most important challenge that the party faced in its 18-year existence. In an interview Imran Khan accepted that the polling agents were not properly trained for this difficult task. The polling agents had no objection to the counting of the votes and did not raise issues on the polling day and subsequently in the professional manner required of them.
The report also highlights the grievances of party office bearers and workers against Imran Khan who, they complained, does not give them due importance. They held Imran Khan and other top leaders responsible for the mess in ticket distribution as all the decisions were taken by them, the report points out. Assessment of the candidates was done in a very “hush hush” manner, said the report.
Explaining the trouble caused by the intra-party elections shortly before the national polls, the report said it caused rivalries, grouping and personal animosity that seriously affected the unity and enthusiasm of PTI during the general elections.
Imran Khan has failed to take any action on its internal party report and instead decided to push the blame of his defeat in GE 2013 on PMLN. We now come to the specific allegations and charges made by Imran Khan based on which he has concluded that elections were massively rigged and PTI was denied the mandate of the people.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has said that there was mass scale rigging in Punjab resulting in the mandate being stolen from PTI.
Our Response:
This allegation is refuted based on following facts:
All election surveys conducted by independent international and national institutions had predicted PML-N victory at federal and Punjab levels while they foretold PPPP’s victory in Sindh and PTI’s victory in KPK. Some of the institutions / groups which had predicted a clear and outright victory for PMLN included Economist London, International Republican Institute (IRI), Gallup International, PEW, Reuters and others. In addition all local survey groups and publications had predicted PMLN victory.
Post election survey and research published by UNDP, PILDAT, FAFEN and others have shown confidence in transparency and accountability of 2013 General Elections.
The electoral process was monitored by several leading international and local organizations such as the US-based National Democratic Institute, the European Union, Fafen (according to Fafen report …2013 elections were by and large free and fair and transparent) and others.
NDI and EU have been monitoring elections in Pakistan for the last several years and both concluded that the May 2013 elections were fairer than any previous election.
PILDAT, which is one of the best recognized NGO also concluded that May 2013 elections were better in every respect than any previous elections.
From a total of 577 provincial assembly seats, PTI filed complaint on just 28 seats representing just 4. 8 % of the total seats. It is strange that the party claiming that there has been mass scale rigging in a very planned way, no more than only 28 candidates out of a total of 577 believed there was rigging in their constituencies. If mass scale rigging had taken place, the complaints filed would have been in hundreds at the national and provincial level. At the national assembly level, the total complaints filed were just 30 out of the total of 272 national assembly seats. Out of these 30, 19 pertain to Punjab, 5 to Sindh, and 6 to Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. PTI would not be able to form government at the national level or in Punjab even if PTI candidates would be declared winners in all the seats where PTI had filed election related complaints. Additionally, it is pertinent to mention here that of the 84 pending cases in both and NA and PA constituencies, only 8 cases of PTI are pending against PMLN in the NA constituencies and, 8 cases are pending in the Provincial constituencies.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has said that there was conspiracy as a result of which 35 NA seats were gifted to PML-N. According to Imran, there was a phone conversation between Caretaker Chief Minister and Mr. Shahbaz Sharif alleging that the CM confirmed having punctured 35 NA seats in favor of PML-N. In these 35 seats, the difference between the winner and runner up is less than the rejected votes and therefore it is assumed that if these votes had not been rejected, PTI would have gained and won these 35 seats.
Our Response:
Perhaps the PTI chief is missing the main point: There are only six seats in which PTI was a runner up. So even if we concede that all the rejected votes in these six constituencies will go to PTI, it still just gets six more seats. So what is this myth of 35 punctures? The PML-N won just 12 of these 35 seats that Imran Khan is speaking of; yet the way these so-called punctures are being presented makes it look like that PML-N has somehow been ‘gifted’ all 35 seats through a well planned conspiracy.
Also there are only 2 seats out of these 35 where PTI is runner up against PML-N so at best PML-N would have lost 2 seats vs. PTI.
A very important fact is that according to Imran Khan this 35 punctures were the gift from Najam Sethi who managed to get 35 seats as a gift to PML-N. The point to remember is that out of these 35 seats, only 15 relate to Punjab, KPK 5, FATA 3, Sindh 5 & Baluchistan 7. How can Punjab care taker chief minister manage not only 15 Punjab related seats but was also able to rig the 20 seats outside his domain?
Allegation:
Imran has repeatedly alleged that in every constituency up to 60,000 to 70,000 votes cast were invalid votes. In support of his allegation he says that Chaudhry Nisar had said this in the National Assembly.
Our Response:
Chaudhry Nisar addressed the issue of thumb verification and explained that a large number of thumb impression may not be verified. Thumb printing verification requires NADRA database cross-references to fingerprints that were taken during elections on the ballot. However they were not taken professionally due to lack of trained staff and the quality of ink used rather than the special magnetic ink. Thumb printing verification or the lack thereof however is not proof alone for the votes to be termed as fake. Imran Khan should know that every vote cast is valid whether or not thumb impression is verifiable or many votes because the thumb impression were not duly preserved due to low quality of ink used by the Election Commission of Pakistan hence may not be identifiable. The mandate of the people would be stolen if such votes are not counted due to above-mentioned reasons. How can Imran Khan rate 2002 elections as better than 2013 when fingerprinting was also not possible or for that matter in 2008 Elections? Thumb verification is also not possible in constituencies that have been won by PTI candidates. Does it mean that none of the PTI candidates including Imran Khan won with bogus votes as he consistently claims? If thumb verification is the ultimate reason to define the integrity of elections, then how does Imran Khan rate 1970 as the most independent elections in our history when there was no thumb impression possible. We also need to emphasis that selection of ink or any other material was the sole prerogative of the election commission and had nothing to do with PML-N or any of its leaders. Also PML-N did not benefit out of any sub standard quality of ink used, as such votes would be equally shared among the candidates.
Besides the thumb verification process, there are multiple other ways to ensure the voter verification. Those include:
Voters are able to cast their votes at specified polling stations according to their names in the electoral rolls. Once at the front of the queue the voter is required to show his / her original identity card to the polling officer who does a name check in the voters list and mark off the voter from the list.
The picture and information about the identification mark present on the CNIC also serves as a strong security check.
As this is done, the polling officer loudly calls out his / her name and serial number from the voter list. This facilitates all the polling agents of various political parties to verify the same from their electoral lists.
The officer then applies an indelible ink on the individual thumb to show that he / she has cast his vote and strike his name from the voter list so that he / she cannot cast multiple votes.
At this point the voter moves to the presiding officer who also notes down the details from the voters CNIC and after satisfying himself / herself about the identity of the voter issues a ballot paper. He too marks off on his / her list at this point.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has repeatedly said that one of the contributors towards his electoral loss is due to very high number of rejected votes. He claims the number of rejected votes is significantly higher compared to previous elections.
Our Response:
Based on the actual data, Imran Khan’s allegation does not hold true. For example the number of rejected votes per 1000 were 24 in 2002 elections, 28 in 2008 elections and are 32 per 1000 in 2013 elections. This is by no stretch of imagination significantly higher number compared to previous 2 elections, considering that total turn out in GE 2013 is significantly more than previous election.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has consistently maintained that he has been undone in the 4 NA seats for which he has been requesting to open up these as a test case. He claims that if these 4 seats are reopened, perhaps the entire election results will be exposed.
Our Response:
PTI had filed petitions with the Election Tribunals for these 4 seats. As such it was for the election tribunals and not the PML-N government to investigate these cases. Under no law can the executive perform such functions nor can it interfere in the election tribunal process. Under what law, only PTI’s 4 constituencies could have been opened? Would it have been fair if only PTI’s 4 constituencies would only be opened while other party’s cases in election tribunal would be completely ignored? In any case, once the candidates have filed their cases with the election tribunal, it is ‘opened’.
Second, an impression has been created that PML-N is opposed to recounting of votes. Imran has never asked for recounting of votes. He has asked for the thumb verification, which according to all experts is not possible as has been explained in detail above. Now lets look at each of the 4 seats under discussion:
The first one is Jehangir Tareen’s seat on which Imran has been conveying an impression that PML-N somehow rigged the elections in its favor. In his press conference on Aug. 11, 2014, Imran again talked about this seat in particular and said that the results started changing only after the speech of Mohammad Nawaz Sharif, which then allowed the Returning officer there to rig the elections in favor of PML-N candidate. The interesting thing is that independent candidate won from that seat while PML-N candidate was a distant 3rd.
The second seat is NA 110 where Khawaja Asif won the elections. The PTI candidate filed the petition against election irregularities. Interestingly, there were zero irregularities observed in this constituency as compared to 55 irregularities in NA 1 from where Khan Sahib won the elections. In any case, the PTI candidate never appeared in the tribunal in spite of notices sent to him. Finally the tribunal penalized the petitioner for Rs 30,000 for non-appearance. The Petitioner has now filed an appeal in Supreme Court.
In NA 125 from where Khawaja Saad Rafique won, PTI has been most vociferous in its demand for vote verification although the margin of defeat for PTI candidate is around 38921. Recounting has been ordered in 7 polling stations. It is interesting to note that in polling stations where recounting has been ordered, 6 out of 7 polling stations, Hamid Khan has won the election. In the entire election process where 2,17,762 votes were cast not even a single vote was challenged. This was one of the Constituency where Army was deployed. In the order passed by Lahore Election Tribunal, the Honourable Judge noted that the Petitioner was trying to dictate the order and hence the matter had to be transferred from Lahore to Faisalabad Election Tribunal.
The fourth seat is NA 122 where Sardar Ayaz Sadiq won against Imran Khan. After the elections, Imran filed a petition with the election tribunal. In 8 months after the filing of the petition, Imran was issued 11 notices but did not appear even once. Finally when Khan appeared on May 7, 2014, his supporters created mayhem breaking things within the premises of the high court. The judge left the court and refused to undertake the court proceedings and the case was adjourned. Imran finally apologized. To put the blame on PML-N or the candidate is misleading the entire nation. On September 4, 2014,the High Court wanted to take a decision but Imran’s lawyer requested for yet another adjournment next date of hearing is September 10, 2014
Allegation:
Imran has said that the reason for going to the long march is that they have been trying to get justice for 14 months without any positive response.
Our Response:
PTI had filed a total of 58 complaints with the election tribunal. Out of these, 39 have been disposed off and only 19 remain. So it is wrong to conclude that no petitions have been heard. In almost all cases, the election tribunals have disposed off the PTI complaints based on lack of evidence or witnesses and without any proof of rigging. It is a standard practice all over the world that courts would dispose of a case if in its view the petition were not backed by enough evidence of the wrongdoing. If PTI considers it has not received a fair response, the issue is entirely with the judiciary and the government cannot be blamed for any delay in disposing of justice. It should also be noted that the 4 respective chief justices of the high courts set up the election tribunals and only retired judges of the high courts were appointed so that the cases could be disposed off on urgent basis. Compared to all previous elections, the tribunals have disposed off the cases much faster. Till the end of August 2014, 80 % of the cases have been disposed off.
Allegation:
Election tribunals are totally biased against PTI.
Our Response:
The 4 chief justices have appointed the judges for the election tribunals. By showing disregard to the functioning of the election tribunals, Imran is actually showing lack of faith in the integrity of the 4 chief justices.
Allegation:
Imran has accused just about everyone for being part of the conspiracy to deprive PTI its just electoral mandate. He has accused Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry, then Chief Justice of Supreme Court, the 4 provincial Chief Justices, the Chief Election Commissioner and the 4 provincial chief election commissioners. His party’s Deputy Information Secretary in a TV interview also accused Gen. Kiyani of being part of the conspiracy. Imran also alleged that a Brig of MI was also part of the conspiracy. He promised to name the Brig. During the Sialkot jalsa but so far has not come up with any name. He has also accused several other people such as Justice Ramday, Punjab Finance Secretary and several others.
Our Response:
All the people accused by Imran Khan have strongly refuted the allegations of Imran Khan. The election commission has already refuted Imran’s claims of being part of the rigging conspiracy. Also Justice Ifktikhar Chaudhry has issued Defamation notice to Imran to apologize or be ready to face the judicial process. Justice Ramday likewise has also said that he will take Imran to the court.
Most of the allegations by Imran are without any substance and are based on unsubstantiated media reports or simply on some party member’s complaint.
Allegation:
Imran has consistently alleged that PML-N was actively involved in the conspiracy to rig the electoral process at all stages – pre election, Election Day rigging and post election manipulation.
Our Response:
PML-N has had no role in the entire process. As explained separately, none of the PML-N nominee was appointed as neutral caretaker chief minister in any of the province. Mr. Najam Sethi’s name was proposed by PPP and not by PML-N. After assuming power as caretaker chief minister, Najam Sethi transferred a total of 14 senior ranking officials who were closely identified with Mr. Shahbaz Sharif. In his rejoinder Najam Sethi claims that he has filed a suit of defamation against Imran Khan, besides as care taker Chief Minister he changed all secretaries except 4. He did not change the education secretary because, on the request of the UK High Commissioner to Pakistan, He did not want to disrupt the UK Education Aid program worth US$500m earmarked for the Punjab province. He did not change the home secretary because Home Minister Tariq Pervez recommended him as an upright and efficient officer. He did not change the health secretary, despite objections from the PML-N that his real sister was contesting on a PTI ticket from a Lahore constituency, because he was handling the measles epidemic in the province and He didn’t want any disruption in the effort. He didn’t change the finance secretary because the new chief secretary Javed Iqbal, a Pashtun, whom I brought in from Islamabad, recommended him as an honest and efficient officer. Najam Sethi appointed a number of officials closely associated with Mr. Pervez Elahi. Some of the senior officials who had closely worked with Mr. Shahbaz Sharif who were transferred included Dr. Tauqir Shah, Fawad Hasan, Barrister Nabeel, Noor Mengal and Ali Jan.
PTI members took oath as members of the National & Provisional Assemblies and accepted Mian Nawaz Sharif as a constitutionally elected Prime Minister.
Allegation:
Imran has alleged that a significant number of ballot papers were printed at a private bazar in Lahore.
Our Response:
The Election Commission has denied this outrageous charge by Imran Khan. According to the Election Commission, ballot papers were printed at Printing Corporation of Pakistan under Army’s supervision. The santity of the ballot paper was ensured as per SOP’s of Election Commission of Pakistan. Notwithstanding, PML-N had no role in this process.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has alleged that everything was going right till 11.23 pm on May 11, 2013. At this stage according to Imran, only 15 % or so election results were known. At this stage, Mian Nawaz Sharif addressed the PML-N workers gathered at PML-N HQ, which was widely covered by all networks. According to Imran this address was done under a conspiracy that also involved Justice Ramday and the objective was to influence the election results with a clear message to the returning officers.
Our Response:
There can be nothing more outrageous than this allegation. By this time all media networks, analyst, independent observers had already given the elections to
PML-N. Much before this time when all major networks had predicted PML-N’s outright victory. For example at 10.48 pm, Javed Chaudhry at Express News announced that PML-N is getting a simple majority. That is no more the question according to Javed Chaudhry. The panels there were discussing the challenges ahead for the PML-N government. In fact, the outcome of the overall results was clear as early as 8 pm based on the final results as well as the partial results from various constituencies. As the counting takes place, the partial results are communicated by all networks and based on the lead, it is fairly easy to predict the eventual winner. This is the practice not just in Pakistan but also even in advanced democracies such as United States where various networks do election predictions based on the margin of votes in each constituency. The tsunami, as PTI wrongly expected, was not coming and that was known as early as 7 pm based on early counting of votes.
It is not just Mian Nawaz Sharif who claimed victory for PML-N; PTI senior leader Asad Umar also shared the same. In an interview with famous TV anchor Kamran Khan, Asad not only conceded defeat but also claimed that his party is winning elections in KPK and will form the government there. How did Asad Umar know of the eventual election results at that time? Asad was PTI’s campaign manager and in absence of Imran Khan, who was in the hospital, was in the best position to understand the overall results. All other senior leaders such as Jehangir Tareen, Arif Alvi, Shafqat Mahmood, Shah Mahmood Qureshi, and Javed Hashmi were in their constituencies and could not have the macro view of the election trends in the country.
There was no visible change in the assessment of the election results before and after the speech of Mian Nawaz Sharif. The final results were more or less in line with the assessment and proportion.
Justice Khalil Ramday was never even remotely engaged in the PMLN election cell and any reference towards him is a blatant lie, false and hence vehemently denied.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has alleged that UNDP workers in various constituencies were told to close their operations after Mian Nawaz Sharif’s address. This according to Imran was done to ensure that Returning Officers could manipulate results, which would not be possible in the presence of UNDP workers.
Our Response:
This is a totally baseless allegation, which has been denied by UNDP Country Director in a recent interview. In any case, the UNDP facility was provided on a very limited scale. This was done on a sample basis by UNDP on a very limited number of constituencies. The truth however as confirmed by UNDP Country Director is that no UNDP worker was told to pack up after the Muhammad Nawaz Sharif’s speech.
Allegation:
Imran Khan has alleged that election results were manipulated resulting in the loss for PTI candidates.
Our Response:
Election results are compiled and communicated to the Returning Officers by the Presiding Officers in every constituency. In each constituency, there are several polling stations managed by Presiding Officers. Once the votes have been counted, the presiding officer completes form XIV reflecting the number of votes obtained by each party candidate. Representative of every party confirming the accuracy and integrity of the vote count then signs the form. The same is then submitted to the Returning Officer who would then consolidate the overall constituency result and submit the same to the election commission.
If the vote count was not authentic, PTI polling agents should have complained at that point to the Presiding Officer or to the Election Commission of Pakistan.
FAFEN had 41,000 workers in all constituencies inside the polling stations. Apart from other activities, they had also established what was known as alternate election result tabulation. FAFEN representatives tabulated and compiled their own results completely independent of the Returning Officers results. Out of total 266 national assembly constituencies contested on May 11th, FAFEN and Returning Officers / Election Commission had the same winner in 264 seats. How then it is claimed that the RO’s were the main contributors towards electoral fraud.
http://pkpolitics.com/2014/09/10/pmln-response-to-rigging-allegations-by-pti/
waqar goraya
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2010
- Runs
- 9,434
Malik Mohsin thanks for posting the article but not interested in reading that, it's coming from people not even afraid to tell blatant lies even inside the parliament. Instead of giving these clarifications, would have been lot more time/cost saving to let the rigging investigation go ahead. They should also let people like ex NADRA chairman work independently and maybe then people would start to believe these liars. Even after all that drama, Kh Saad Rafiq took a stay order just last week in his constituency to stop votes being recounted, what on earth is he scared about?
scared of the truth I guess......then again what else we can expect from such a khawaja S-- (MM will not like it)
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
I have said this before and i will say. You have every rights to present your point of views whether in agreement or disagreement. Feel free to exercise freedom of speeches as long as there is no need to resort to personal tactics like name-calling, grave accusation, character assassination and go on.
As i said before, i never liked PMLN but PMLN has my support because of Azadi march; holding Islamabad as hostage damaging Pakistan's economy for more than 500 billion rupees including endorsing anti-taxes protocol in the whole state barring Peshawar which can be seen as hypocrisy from PTI's side. Using threatening tactics like rallying crowds to urge the democratic elected government to resign can set dangerous precedent in the future, and could cripple the competent government in the future if this kind of tactics is legalized, currently illegal and unconstitutional in according to Pakistan's Parliament for the right reasons. I fully support electoral reformative, that being said all of conditions laid by PTI including electoral reformative has been agreed by democratic elected government which itself is biggest victory, but PTI refusal to leave due to one condition; PM's resignation if complied which will set dangerous precedent in the future as i have mentioned before.
Feel free to disagree using freedom of speech rights in the civilized manner if possible.
Last edited:
Fastandfurious
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2014
- Runs
- 6,180
And then [MENTION=10992]MalikMohsin[/MENTION] says I don't support PML-N.
Last edited by a moderator:
Saeed
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2010
- Runs
- 10,077
I think Malik saab is right. There is no need to get involve in noora type of discussion. His points should be either refuted or he should be left alone.
PerfectionPersonified
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Runs
- 4,961
Couldn tstop laughing ....What a joke of explanation ...
Anyone supporting after watching lies in parliament doesn't have IQ to understand anything.
Everyone saying there was rigging, so why not check it ?
Anyone supporting after watching lies in parliament doesn't have IQ to understand anything.
Everyone saying there was rigging, so why not check it ?
Or He should seek help from Canadian healthcare system....
Ismailtoca
First Class Player
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2010
- Runs
- 2,669
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
Last edited by a moderator:
Fastandfurious
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2014
- Runs
- 6,180
Thank you for proving my points.
Damn, you're a genius. I messed with the wrong guy.
PerfectionPersonified
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Runs
- 4,961
Thank you for proving my points.
Woww..what medal did you get ?
MalikMohsin reminds me of Maulana Fazlu rehman, acts like some religious scholar while in real you guys know ....
May be MM should write a book " From wannabe Internet Mullah to Pml (L) supporter "
Quite ironic to see same pattern is followed here.. wannabe mullah, nationalist, liberal all together vs Imran.
May be MM should write a book " From wannabe Internet Mullah to Pml (L) supporter "
Quite ironic to see same pattern is followed here.. wannabe mullah, nationalist, liberal all together vs Imran.
PerfectionPersonified
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Runs
- 4,961
Even from Islamic point of view how could someone defend killing of 14 innocent people ?
No shame at all?
Forget about what IK has done .....Lets talk about TUQ and his stance... anything wrong with this ? ...Mulla Ji ?
No shame at all?
Forget about what IK has done .....Lets talk about TUQ and his stance... anything wrong with this ? ...Mulla Ji ?
PerfectionPersonified
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Runs
- 4,961
PerfectionPersonified
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Runs
- 4,961
I have said this before and i will say. You have every rights to present your point of views whether in agreement or disagreement. Feel free to exercise freedom of speeches as long as there is no need to resort to personal tactics like name-calling, grave accusation, character assassination and go on.
As i said before, i never liked PMLN but PMLN has my support because of Azadi march; holding Islamabad as hostage damaging Pakistan's economy for more than 500 billion rupees including endorsing anti-taxes protocol in the whole state barring Peshawar which can be seen as hypocrisy from PTI's side. Using threatening tactics like rallying crowds to urge the democratic elected government to resign can set dangerous precedent in the future, and could cripple the competent government in the future if this kind of tactics is legalized, currently illegal and unconstitutional in according to Pakistan's Parliament for the right reasons. I fully support electoral reformative, that being said all of conditions laid by PTI including electoral reformative has been agreed by democratic elected government which itself is biggest victory, but PTI refusal to leave due to one condition; PM's resignation if complied which will set dangerous precedent in the future as i have mentioned before.
Feel free to disagree using freedom of speech rights in the civilized manner if possible.
PTI waited 14 months to get to this point, so your analogy is just absurd
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
From the topic of Azadi march to other incidents basing on assumption.
I think [MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION] is right. Even if i ask you to prove regarding the bold, it will take forever from you guys to provide concrete evidence.
I never claimed to be Imam nor Scholar, and to be extent, i even warned [MENTION=65060]Shahrukh[/MENTION] not to MENTION me in any Islamic threads anymore. Neither i have supported PMLN decisions regarding Model town incident which was embarrasment in the history of Pakistan as the credibility of Police as protector and defender shot down the drain.
In hereafter, i will never forgive you guys for grave allegations. I guess it is too much to ask to stick to discussion without resorting to personal tactics such as making grave allegation without evidence to back. ;(
Last edited by a moderator:
PerfectionPersonified
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Runs
- 4,961
Well the fake democracy should be abolished as soon as possible, so whats your stance on CM SS resignations over those killings?
Its ALL ONE TOPIC NOW, IK and TUQ have joned hands btw if you are watching news these days ?
Not even in any third world African country a CM will survive after this type of negligence (though i think it was deliberate)
A PM lying on the floor in front of millions and gets caught the same day....is this the democracy you follow ?
I am against IK's many things on this dharna( civil disobedience ) one of them but overall he stance is correct...
Fake Elections + Fake Ministers = Fake Democracy
I have said this before and i will say. You have every rights to present your point of views whether in agreement or disagreement. Feel free to exercise freedom of speeches as long as there is no need to resort to personal tactics like name-calling, grave accusation, character assassination and go on.
As i said before, i never liked PMLN but PMLN has my support because of Azadi march; holding Islamabad as hostage damaging Pakistan's economy for more than 500 billion rupees including endorsing anti-taxes protocol in the whole state barring Peshawar which can be seen as hypocrisy from PTI's side. Using threatening tactics like rallying crowds to urge the democratic elected government to resign can set dangerous precedent in the future, and could cripple the competent government in the future if this kind of tactics is legalized, currently illegal and unconstitutional in according to Pakistan's Parliament for the right reasons. I fully support electoral reformative, that being said all of conditions laid by PTI including electoral reformative has been agreed by democratic elected government which itself is biggest victory, but PTI refusal to leave due to one condition; PM's resignation if complied which will set dangerous precedent in the future as i have mentioned before.
Feel free to disagree using freedom of speech rights in the civilized manner if possible.
To be fair with you, i can show your posts in support of Nawaz Sharif/PMLN much before Azadi March.
Also, i agree about personal attacks which is not the way to argue but your own DP shows you are open to such things so don't feel upset if some people do take cheap shots at you because you are openly doing the same.
WebGuru
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2013
- Runs
- 21,339
- Post of the Week
- 3
Pervaiz Elahi was with a dictator no doubt but IMO Pervaiz Elahi was a better CM thn Shehbaz Sharif because he did things for whole Punjab not only for Lahore or big cities. Even small districts like mine improved under him. And this Rescue 1122 concept was awesome.
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
Go ahead. What is stopping you? If you are talking about PMLN's economical policy, then i do admire that policy just like i admire some of policy of PTI including electoral reformative which got my vote through my wife in the first place.
That being said, i am supporter of Pakistan army/ISI foremost.
PerfectionPersonified
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Runs
- 4,961
Hypocrisy bro.
PerfectionPersonified
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Runs
- 4,961
Yeah...big time...lets save this......
Btw who will control music system now.. do PTI have any alternative ?
Dr_Bassim
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Runs
- 18,854
- Post of the Week
- 8
Still waiting for a hero...
Poor nation
Poor nation
PerfectionPersonified
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2010
- Runs
- 4,961
Still waiting for a hero...
Poor nation
Yep pretty much just like the nation waited for Muhammad Ali Jinnah ...
absurd sarcasm
Dr_Bassim
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Runs
- 18,854
- Post of the Week
- 8
Yep pretty much just like the nation waited for Muhammad Ali Jinnah ...
Well why not...
We can wait for Mohammadan times as well...
You see where I am going with this..
Vegitto1
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2005
- Runs
- 5,892
- Post of the Week
- 2
Still waiting for a hero...
Poor nation
The weak always wait for a leader from amongst themselves to rise up and lead the way. Please have a good look at history. Periods of history and nations are identified mostly by feats achieved by individual nations, good or bad.
Vegitto1
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2005
- Runs
- 5,892
- Post of the Week
- 2
My advice to everyone who is arguing with [MENTION=10992]MalikMohsin[/MENTION] - You guys are wasting your time (unless you are trolling him in which case carry on doing so)
Instead of discussing ground realities him and other PMLN supporters will argue on hypothetical issues. They like to keep going on and on about a precedence being set. What the fail to acknowledge is that these precedence have already been set. This is not the first long march of its kind and PM's in the past have resigned due to this (on the face of it of course)
Anyway, even if you do win an argument, he will play the religion card which puts an end to any discussion.
Instead of discussing ground realities him and other PMLN supporters will argue on hypothetical issues. They like to keep going on and on about a precedence being set. What the fail to acknowledge is that these precedence have already been set. This is not the first long march of its kind and PM's in the past have resigned due to this (on the face of it of course)
Anyway, even if you do win an argument, he will play the religion card which puts an end to any discussion.
Strike Rate
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2013
- Runs
- 19,788
hahahaha
Dr_Bassim
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Runs
- 18,854
- Post of the Week
- 8
Unfortunately, neither is Imran Khan a hero. ( we are desperate to have one or make him one I agree on that count).
But on topic...
When countries change, people are willing to make sacrifices.
I dare you to put half teaspoon of sugar in your tea and ask everyone in just the area of Rawalpindi to make that sacrifice.
If 20 percent of people support you... I will be flabbergasted.
We are a bullish nation who talks about sacrifices, wants to stop paying tax... according to Imran, should launch Civil War in Pakistan, yet only 10-14 percent of people will be ready to make the sacrifice afterwards.
Will you tell your family to sit on the computer only 1 hour a day so that electricity can be saved ?
Thanks
WebGuru
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2013
- Runs
- 21,339
- Post of the Week
- 3
lol DJ Butt trending now in Twitter Pakistan.
godzilla
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2006
- Runs
- 5,404
- Post of the Week
- 1
Unfortunately, neither is Imran Khan a hero. ( we are desperate to have one or make him one I agree on that count).
But on topic...
When countries change, people are willing to make sacrifices.
I dare you to put half teaspoon of sugar in your tea and ask everyone in just the area of Rawalpindi to make that sacrifice.
If 20 percent of people support you... I will be flabbergasted.
We are a bullish nation who talks about sacrifices, wants to stop paying tax... according to Imran, should launch Civil War in Pakistan, yet only 10-14 percent of people will be ready to make the sacrifice afterwards.
Will you tell your family to sit on the computer only 1 hour a day so that electricity can be saved ?
Thanks
Well if there's no one ready to sacrifice, you've got nothing to worry about have you? It'll all fizzle out - so why even bother with commenting on an irrelevancy?
godzilla
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2006
- Runs
- 5,404
- Post of the Week
- 1
As i said before, i never liked PMLN but PMLN has my support because of Azadi march; holding Islamabad as hostage damaging Pakistan's economy for more than 500 billion rupees including endorsing anti-taxes protocol in the whole state barring Peshawar which can be seen as hypocrisy from PTI's side. Using threatening tactics like rallying crowds to urge the democratic elected government to resign can set dangerous precedent in the future, and could cripple the competent government in the future if this kind of tactics is legalized, currently illegal and unconstitutional in according to Pakistan's Parliament for the right reasons. I fully support electoral reformative, that being said all of conditions laid by PTI including electoral reformative has been agreed by democratic elected government which itself is biggest victory, but PTI refusal to leave due to one condition; PM's resignation if complied which will set dangerous precedent in the future as i have mentioned before.
Feel free to disagree using freedom of speech rights in the civilized manner if possible.
You repeat the same rubbish again and again as the main reasons for your stance and when they are refuted, you completely ignore them. The hit to the economy is a complete fabrication and lie. Every time you've put up an article a number of people here have shown you the very obvious fact that the numbers are inexplicably based almost entirely on fx fluctuations and stock market fluctuation, the second of which recovered - it's entirely bogus, disingenuous and a fabrication. Repeating it can only be because either you don't want to understand the claimed loss to the economy or are too stupid to understand it.
The precedent issue is exactly the same. It's been refuted millions of times here and yet there's no response, just a continual bleating of the same broken and ill thought out record. If it's a precedent, exactly how many country's in the world have suffered from continual peoples revolts once a government has been overthrown by the people? Where is the evidence, from the hundreds of political revolts in human history, that the over throwing of a government by the people leads to a dangerous precedent?
This is all complete unintelligent rubbish.
Last edited:
Dr_Bassim
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Runs
- 18,854
- Post of the Week
- 8
I just said Poor nation..
Waiting for a hero...
It was entirely relevant because everyone is still waiting for a hero.
However, when I get responses like other nations had heroes come and rescue them, it rapidly becomes highly consequential that how much of the population wants a change.
IN case of Jinnah 90 percent wanted Pakistan...
IN case of history, lots of people wanted change and were willing for it.
In Pakistan only educated 20-30 percent want change, if you're really lucky that is...
Then why build sand castles in the air. ??
Better to come back to reality, and try to focus on increasing the number of people who are willing to change instead of believing a hero will solve the problems.
Dr_Bassim
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Runs
- 18,854
- Post of the Week
- 8
HOnestly speaking...
If sitting in Islamabad container is the solution to solve this crisis.. .tow betha rahay Imran phir saari Zindagi Container par .. and naary marta rahay.
Vegitto1
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2005
- Runs
- 5,892
- Post of the Week
- 2
Unfortunately, neither is Imran Khan a hero. ( we are desperate to have one or make him one I agree on that count).
But on topic...
When countries change, people are willing to make sacrifices.
I dare you to put half teaspoon of sugar in your tea and ask everyone in just the area of Rawalpindi to make that sacrifice.
If 20 percent of people support you... I will be flabbergasted.
We are a bullish nation who talks about sacrifices, wants to stop paying tax... according to Imran, should launch Civil War in Pakistan, yet only 10-14 percent of people will be ready to make the sacrifice afterwards.
Will you tell your family to sit on the computer only 1 hour a day so that electricity can be saved ?
Thanks
Imran Khan may not be a hero in the USA or the UK or any other developed country because they have very accomplished people there. However for Pakistan he is a hero because there is no one in Pakistan who could have achieved what he has.
1.When he was a cricketer everyone wanted to be like him. He was the inspiration for many of our future cricketing stars.
2.When he made a cancer hospital many other celebrities followed his lead and made hospitals and other philanthropy works.
3. When he became a leader, he refused to take a shortcut to power. Instead he struggled for 18 years and revived Nazriyati politics instead of Muk Muka.
If he was your run of the mill leader then he could sit contently at home. Run KPK and mint money along with his ministers! Carry out development projects which can be seen and ensure that he has a hold on KPK forever. But he is still out there fighting for what is right.
However if by 'hero' you mean he is not superman or batman then I agree he isn't.
And as far as your "use less electricity" "use less sugar" argument goes of making sacrifices. These would make sense if we didn't have the resources however we do have the resources so why should WE make these sacrifices while our leaders enjoy the exact same luxuries without making any sacrifices?
Why should we not be proactive and hang these so called leaders and take back what is rightfully ours. I am sure the wealth alone inside Raiwind and Bilawal House would be equal to Punjab's 1 year budget!
godzilla
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2006
- Runs
- 5,404
- Post of the Week
- 1
You did just say that, yes, but I think we both know it was a loaded comment. It's a simple issue as far as I can see, either you are happy with the current situation, you feel it will self repair or that a change is needed. Each can be debated, but it seems the growing swell of opinion, quite rightly in my mind, is trending to the third option.
In that case, what is the best method of doing that? The pti believe that a legal and constitutional protest is the best way of implementing what needs to be a hard reset. You think it should be a (re)education - how exactly would you imagine that is done, and why do you think it would be more effective?
It's all very well taking puerile jabs at ik or the people that support his method, but where's the reasoning behind an alternative? There is an argument that decades of embezzlement is increasing the divide between the poor and the ultra rich at an asymptotic rate. As that continues, the people can less and less afford to revolt and to seek justice, in order to survive they become de facto slaves.
There is a limit on time that effective change can be implemented, I'm not sure why most detractors of ik assume that we have oceans of time to chip away at a grotesque and all consuming cancer that is politics in Pakistan. Not only is the internal gulf between classes expanding massively, but the gap between Pakistan and her peers is also expanding rapidly, precisely because of miss management, corruption and embezzlement. This is by far and away the most serious impediment to Pakistan, it's past and future, for all it's people, and yet detractors of the marches prefer to focus on minutiae.
godzilla
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2006
- Runs
- 5,404
- Post of the Week
- 1
What's the alternative? And if that's what he does, if you think it's a waste of time, what's your problem with it? It's an irrelevancy.
It's interesting to look up the second half of the lies that Malik keeps posting up about the economy, namely the foreign exchange hit - firstly this too has recovered half of its fluctuation, but more importantly, the effects of this march have been minimal. Google usd-pkr chart, and look at the exchange rate over the last ten years and look at how the weakening of the rupee has been massive and constant - it's another indication of just how damaging these past bunch of governments have been - it's so much bigger in its effect than this march, it really is astonishing that people prefer to question and criticise this blip, a squeaky wheel so to speak rather than commenting on the car driving full speed over a cliff.
Dr_Bassim
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Runs
- 18,854
- Post of the Week
- 8
He is a hero as a cricketer for sure as he won the World Cup. In cricket he is a legend no denying that.
The Cancer Hospital he built doesnt' make him a hero, yet it gives him enormous "Sawab" for Afterlife , provided his intentions were noble, which only God Knows (hopefully they will be.) He did something for humanity and as a Muslim his reward will be seen maybe later in Afterlife.
He struggled to get to power for 18 years because no one wanted to elect him or not many people were. In fact I can guarantee that he still doesn't have majority support in Pakistan. At least in Balochistan he will never get enough seats to make his "Hakoomat"
As for Punjab, sure the elections were rigged somewhat. They always have been. But somehow Zardari came to power and defeated Nawaz with rigged elections after death of Benazir Bhutto. Similarly, Nawaz came into power after Zardari despite rigged elections.
Why is it that Imran fails to come to power despite rigging?
I'll tell you the honest truth..
It's because only 20-30 percent of Pakistani population is literate. 70 percent of those are illiterate and don't know the difference between Imran and Nawaz and Zardari and cast votes like they always have for generations according to who their fathers grandfathers give vote to.
And till you create that awareness among majority of country... there is not gonna be much change.
I know truth is bitter but it's better to face the truth than live in sand castles in hope of effecting a change in Pakistan.
You need a paradigm shift from the masses, and 70 percent of those who are illiterate are not going to shift their paradigm because a cricketer won the World Cup and promises revolution. Either you convince them or make them aware or you keep facing Zardari Nawaz shutout for a long time.
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
Pakistan economy did suffer more than 500 billion rupees and that was few days ago. I have posted the article which can be found in this thread.
During Azadi march while taking Islamabad as hostage which result in shutting almost every institutions in Islamabad, and never mind for being pain in the a.$.$ for Islamabad residents.
Did Azadi march cost Pakistan's economy for more than 500 billion rupees or not?
Yes or No should suffice.
Next step; we will get to dangerous precedent point as soon as this question is answered.
Last edited:
Indiafan
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2006
- Runs
- 19,664
- Post of the Week
- 8
Err no, the gulf is increasing not because you have an awesome system of governance but wrong people in charge. The gulf is increasing because for 65 years, you have not had one siongle form of government for 10 straight years. And it will continue to do so even if you bring the best system in place as long as you do not give it enough time
Forget about oceans of time, this was the first time a democratic government completed a single full term. And this resulted in IK gaining so much popularity and so many seats. Of course you do not have oceans of time because it is not that you want the best system for Pakistan, it is that you want a Pakistan with IK in charge, by hook or by crook
But for me, there is still no clarity about what this super system is. If Sharif is gotten rid of then what? What form of governance do you want, is it even clear? A democracy exactly like Imran and Qadir want? But what if other parties don't want that? then what? Another over throw? Another revolution. Another broken system with search for a new savior? Zia removed Bhutto for irregularities, heck even hanged him. Did corruption disappear? Did the country change over night? Why would this time be any different? What makes you think this will last?
Dr_Bassim
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Runs
- 18,854
- Post of the Week
- 8
I don't care about loss of exchequer nor do I side with Malik's comments.
I merely was pointing the fact which is a fact.
No need to feel hurt.
This is what he is doing.
Sitting on a container and hoping one day he will get Power.
If you think he has some other idea of getting power, I am all ears right now.
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
Whatever you say about me, but coming from you carry no weight. Unlike you, i am not liar, and i have concrete evidence that prove how big liar you are. Carry on with all the lying.
Last edited:
the Great Khan
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2005
- Runs
- 27,106
- Post of the Week
- 1
Just ehard DJ Butt has been arrested. yes the DJ. pathetic
Dr_Bassim
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Runs
- 18,854
- Post of the Week
- 8
I am not happy with the situation but I don't believe in gushing out self made miracles. Half of Pakpassion does believe in them, so we have nothing more to discuss regarding this situation.
That's his problem.
He's the leader or future leader at some point according to you. He should figure out a way to make the masses more literate so they support him with overwhelming majority.
Better than sitting on a container and saying "OH Lord, Oh people, Give me power and I will show you my power".
Bhai Jaan, are you supporting Imran because he has a policy which he showed you in private to change the destiny of Pakistan??
Has he shown you a roadmap to which effect he will change Pakistan?
Or are you supporting him because he is a legend cricketer and you like him for his cricket?
Or maybe you are supporting him, because his roadmap is to stop paying taxes and Start Civil Disobedience Movement?
I can only help you after you tell me why you are supporting him...
the Great Khan
Senior Test Player
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2005
- Runs
- 27,106
- Post of the Week
- 1
we are asking for accountability. The current system needs fixing and accountability needs to be implemented otherwise every election from here to eternity will be rigged. That's the point. India did not simply let its system just carry on. They reviewed it, improved it, modified it, that is all the PTI is asking for. the problem with Indians is you think everything that happens contrary to the Indian vision of Pakistan is orchestrated by the military. Tell me what would have happened of modi had rigged the election in India? would you have accepted him as your PM? or would you have expected the law to takes it course and if proven guilty rerun the election. That's what happens in democracies. You need to educate yourself on Pakistani politics and what goes on.
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
Punjab Govt. Rejects 100 Million Rs. worth of Aid for the Flood Victims from KPK Govt.
LAHORE: Punjab has rejected a Rs.100 million cheque offered by Khyber Pakhtunkhwa provincial government for the relief of flood affectees, Samaa reported Friday.
Mushtaq Ghani, the spokesman for KPK government, confirmed the report and deplored Punjab chief minister Shahbaz Sharif’s decision.
“The cash aid was not meant for Punjab government, but for the relief of flood affectees. Returning the amount is deplorable and will create hatred among provinces…,” he said.
He said KPK would also reject Punjab’s aid, if offered. - Samaa TV
^ That's pathetic move from PMLN. After all, that money was meant to use for the flood victims. PMLN needs to put personal-agenda aside and concentrate on flood victims which is top priority.
LAHORE: Punjab has rejected a Rs.100 million cheque offered by Khyber Pakhtunkhwa provincial government for the relief of flood affectees, Samaa reported Friday.
Mushtaq Ghani, the spokesman for KPK government, confirmed the report and deplored Punjab chief minister Shahbaz Sharif’s decision.
“The cash aid was not meant for Punjab government, but for the relief of flood affectees. Returning the amount is deplorable and will create hatred among provinces…,” he said.
He said KPK would also reject Punjab’s aid, if offered. - Samaa TV
^ That's pathetic move from PMLN. After all, that money was meant to use for the flood victims. PMLN needs to put personal-agenda aside and concentrate on flood victims which is top priority.
Last edited:
Vegitto1
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2005
- Runs
- 5,892
- Post of the Week
- 2
Firstly, for most people, making a cancer hospital makes him a bigger hero than winning a world cup. The same holds true for Edhi.
Secondly, PTI doesn't rig elections lol and hence they are at a disadvantage. And we will not start rigging elections to compete with PMLN and PPP. For us it's about principles and fixing the system, not becoming a part of it.
OK let us take your example of 30% literate and 70% illiterate population. Now according to that generalisation, the literate live in cities and the illiterate live in villages. Taking it a step further, PTI should have only won seats in cities and PPP and PMLN in villages.
Yet, PMLN secured seats in Lahore -areas like Defence, Cantt etc. and I can assure you that they had absolutely no chance of winning there. Heck they couldn't win NA118 without rigging (rigging in this constituency has been proven) - the most backward part of Lahore!.
I think what is needed is to rally the masses and launch an assault on places like Bilawal House and jaati Umra. Burn these buildings to the ground and put the fear of God in these corrupt leaders. Our representatives need to fear us! they need to be taught a lesson that if they misuse authority then we will not spare them.
Last edited:
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
Recognize the person from the picture [responsible for attack on PTV office] and report the name-info to police in exchange for 100K rupees
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
Eggs thrown on Imran Khan's return from Sialkot visit
^ Is this true?
^ Is this true?
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
Saleem Safi says decision to launch attacks on GEO was made in Imran Khan's Container
^ Not sure what is happening. Allah knows best.
^ Not sure what is happening. Allah knows best.
MalikMohsin, normally I don't respond to sad people like you, but here's what actually happened when IK visited Sialkot. Stop posting BS propaganda by Geo News. And stop being cancerous for us Pakistanis as well, for once.
General public, for once, forgot their miseries and were so happy, cheering for their leader and gathered around him. Even young bikers followed his car and were trying to make video via their cell phones
Skip to around 2:40 when IK arrives.
<div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script>
<div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846640542045034" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846640542045034">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ImranKhan.Official">Imran Khan (official)</a>.</div></div>
That's how leaders are welcomed.
Go see the video proof of how Nawaz was welcomed, where the crowds were chanting "go nawaz go", "ganjay nassaan ge".
General public, for once, forgot their miseries and were so happy, cheering for their leader and gathered around him. Even young bikers followed his car and were trying to make video via their cell phones
Skip to around 2:40 when IK arrives.
<div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script>
<div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846640542045034" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846640542045034">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ImranKhan.Official">Imran Khan (official)</a>.</div></div>
That's how leaders are welcomed.
Go see the video proof of how Nawaz was welcomed, where the crowds were chanting "go nawaz go", "ganjay nassaan ge".
Last edited:
exposer
Debutant
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2012
- Runs
- 143
heres a video of javed ch. from few years ago. the same guy who spouts nonsense all the time about pti & pat dharnas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkX9A671fnI
WATCH TILL 5 MINS.
funny turn.
)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkX9A671fnI
WATCH TILL 5 MINS.
funny turn.
)
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
MalikMohsin, normally I don't respond to sad people like you, but here's what actually happened when IK visited Sialkot. Stop posting BS propaganda by Geo News. And stop being cancerous for us Pakistanis as well, for once.
General public, for once, forgot their miseries and were so happy, cheering for their leader and gathered around him. Even young bikers followed his car and were trying to make video via their cell phones
Skip to around 2:40 when IK arrives.
<div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script>
<div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846640542045034" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846640542045034">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ImranKhan.Official">Imran Khan (official)</a>.</div></div>
That's how leaders are welcomed.
Go see the video proof of how Nawaz was welcomed, where the crowds were chanting "go nawaz go", "ganjay nassaan ge".
I am not surprised about PMLN given its popularity [unfriendly]. If the report about egg is true, that would have been surprise which you just cleared the misunderstanding. Thank for replying to sadist.
I would take non-liked dictator if he is competent to lead the nation and equip to deal multiple crises simultaneously like Pakistani Army's General.
exposer
Debutant
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2012
- Runs
- 143
but would you call imrans demands reasonable if he´d asked the whole govt to go during investigations instead of only the pm ?
Sakss
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2009
- Runs
- 14,207
MalikMohsin, normally I don't respond to sad people like you, but here's what actually happened when IK visited Sialkot. Stop posting BS propaganda by Geo News. And stop being cancerous for us Pakistanis as well, for once.
General public, for once, forgot their miseries and were so happy, cheering for their leader and gathered around him. Even young bikers followed his car and were trying to make video via their cell phones
Skip to around 2:40 when IK arrives.
<div id="fb-root"></div> <script>(function(d, s, id) { var js, fjs = d.getElementsByTagName(s)[0]; if (d.getElementById(id)) return; js = d.createElement(s); js.id = id; js.src = "//connect.facebook.net/en_US/all.js#xfbml=1"; fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js, fjs); }(document, 'script', 'facebook-jssdk'));</script>
<div class="fb-post" data-href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846640542045034" data-width="466"><div class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore"><a href="https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=846640542045034">Post</a> by <a href="https://www.facebook.com/ImranKhan.Official">Imran Khan (official)</a>.</div></div>
That's how leaders are welcomed.
Go see the video proof of how Nawaz was welcomed, where the crowds were chanting "go nawaz go", "ganjay nassaan ge".
Nice reply bro...
Maybe some one should tell MM what happened to Nawaz when he visited Kashmir lately...
anakin
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2010
- Runs
- 4,777
Strike Rate
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2013
- Runs
- 19,788
haha someone posted it on twitter
MM I recognize you...........clearly
Strike Rate
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2013
- Runs
- 19,788
where in najam sethi in this picture
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
Instead of making this about me, posting the detail of that incident for awareness is nothing wrong with that. I heard about that, and i am not surprised. That being said, my stance on PTI regarding Azadi march hasn't changed. I don't agree with PTI tactics regarding Azadi march. Unfortunately, for PTI, either you support PTI blindly or if you oppose Azadi march, then suddenly you are noora. Not my fault if PTI-ian continues to think like that. Not long ago, i was PTI-ian. In the past, i had reputation of criticizing PMLN, TTP, MQM, PPP, ANP to death. You are Moderator here and i am sure you can dig the archive.
I am giving similar treatment to PTI because of Azadi march where PTI is taking Islamabad as hostage while endorsing anti-taxes protocol to undermine Pakistan's economy. Pakistan economy has suffered more than 500 billion rupees which may be joke to PTI-ian, but it is hard-earned money from investors, businessmen went down the drain.
At best, even if PMLN resigns, but who is going to compensate for those who suffered due to Azadi march? You guys don't think, do you? That doesn't give confidence to future investors, both from local and international, judging by PTI tactics has been proven anti-development and anti-state.
The gist i get from PTI; bahar main jaye Pakistan, PTI comes first. That explains the tactics of anti-development and anti-state.
Last edited:
wasim-fan
Local Club Captain
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2010
- Runs
- 2,469
No. But it is probably more self defeating process with current stand. Current position is more obviously intended to just bring down Sharif for short time. The intention is not to solve the situation.
Fallen King
T20I Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2008
- Runs
- 7,510
If you live in Pakistan and happen to be behind attack on PTV attack, run away to Afghanistan where you can seek support from TTP. TTP owes some favor to PTI.
One_life_stand
Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2010
- Runs
- 81
lol Sunami March of mere Chairs ! Imran should go home and call it quits to Politics and his supporters should ...fine choose your own punishment !
Most fail protest in history of Pak
Strike Rate
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2013
- Runs
- 19,788
some morons dont know that last night there was a storm in isalambad and heavy rains. every day in these 29 days people thought the number will decrease but bechaaron ki aqal thikaane ajaati hai when they see more people every day. If there are a few hundred people than why these noora badmash goverment is on his kness hahaha talking about the pathetic morons like saad rafique sitting parliment attacking jinnah too because jinnah had pet dogs. pethetic party pathetic supporters and pathetic attitude
dont forget to check go nawaz go video during noora jalsa in azad kashmi haha hahaha hats off to imran the nation is finally awake to throw these corrupt people out
One_life_stand
Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2010
- Runs
- 81
A fail march is what its turning out to be !
Similar threads
- Poll
