Question on cricket bat grains.

[90MPH]

Does more grains mean better performance and better ping ? Is this guaranteed or is it just theory ?

Also if the ping of a bat is not great then is the solution to keep knocking in the bat ? I had a CA 8000 last year, knocked it in for hours yet it still does not ping that well.

 

[Cover Drive]

Not really I would say. Personally I believe "ping" has a lot to do with the pressing rather than the grains. A soft pressed bat is likely to "ping" in beginning of its life and vice versa.

Anyways, grains tell us about the life of the cleft/willow. The greater the number of grains the shorter life span the bat will have and vice versa. In addition to that the greater number of grains bat will open quickly and will come it its life quickly compare to a fewer grains bat which take time to get knocked in.

Generally the pricinple as stated earlier is that the fewer grains bat take time to open up and perform to its potential.

A lot of manufacurers are cutting down the trees at younger age (few grains) so if you ever come across a top of the line bat with 5-6 grains don't be surprised.

There is no such thing as 'over knocking' so don't worry about knocking. Most of the time you end up knocking the bat less which then leads to a breakage when used in a game due to hard ball and wood not not being properly compressed.

A example to further clear things for you;

Imagine there are two CA 12000 Plus (Bat A and Bat B) with exact same pressing, profile etc. The only difference being Bat A has 14 grains and Bat B has 5 grains. The Bat A will come to its life much earlier compare to Bat B. If you use both bats in 4 games with everything being same (number of ball faced, contact made etc) bat a will "ping" more compare to bat B.

Hope it made sense.

Let me know if you have anymore questions or this wasn't clear enough.

 

[90MPH]

Ok thanks a lot for that CA.

 

[Cricketismylife]

I say all this talk about grains is mostly rubbish.

From personal experience and having talked to a few bat makers its more like a matter of chance. Wood, being a natural product, is hard to predict.

Grains are a lot about looks than performance. Can make an educated guess about life but thats about it.

 

[askmoi]

its all about personal preference.....but a guideline which works for me is roughly 8-10 evenly spaced straight grains.....optimum balance between performance and longevity

 

[momin97]

so if a bat has more grains the bat will lose its ping faster???

 

[dhump]

I think more important thing is how straight the grains are ?? can any one comment on this theory as well ??

 

[Knightrider]

There are no set rules when it comes to bat grains and their effect on performance. My personal opinion is that the more grain, the better the performance but the less durability. Bats with wider grains may not play quite as well but they do seem to last longer. A bat with 7-8 straight grains is a good compromise!

 

[Cover Drive]

I think more important thing is how straight the grains are ?? can any one comment on this theory as well ??

I agree with this. The straightness plays an important role in grading.

One of my clubmate has low end Ihsan Inferno bat (333) and it has very good face meaning there are around 15 grains and they are evenly spaced BUT the problem is that they are diagonal and basically are at 40 Degrees. If they were straight then that bat would automatically have been Grade A.

 

[shirazi_r]

All this chat about grains is pure rubbish IMHO. Wood is a natural product and it's properties vary from tree to tree. Just this week I played with both a Kookaburra Kahuna 1000 and a Kahuna 300 and felt no difference in performance whatsoever.

If batmakers told everyone that performance between grades was similar, they wouldn't sell any top end bats. Note that most top end bats are graded on looks anyhow.

As for the straight grain theory, there is no logic behind it. The direction of grains to a certain degree will make no noticeable difference to the performance or longevity of a bat.

Surely this post will draw much criticism from the resident "grain fiends" but I challenge anyone to prove that a brand new top end bat bat will outplay a bottom end bat of the same model.

 

[Cover Drive]

LOL can you prove that a low end will outplay top end?

I was explaining Majid the other day that it is not certain that top end bats will be plank and won't perform well. I believe in the top end bats there are minimum chances of getting a plank bat compare to low end bats. In other words, I believe percentage of good performance bat in higher end is greater compare to lower end.

Some companies grade bats based on performance.

Grains and look are important for high end bats because if they look horrible or the grains are not nice no one will buy them.

 

[shirazi_r]

LOL can you prove that a low end will outplay top end?

I was explaining Majid the other day that it is not certain that top end bats will be plank and won't perform well. I believe in the top end bats there are minimum chances of getting a plank bat compare to low end bats. In other words, I believe percentage of good performance bat in higher end is greater compare to lower end.

Some companies grade bats based on performance.

Grains and look are important for high end bats because if they look horrible or the grains are not nice no one will buy them.

I'm not saying low end bats will outplay top ends or vice versa; the onus however is on batmakers to prove that expensive bats perform better and until now they simply haven't.

Of course grains on higher end bats are going to be better; seeing as the performance doesn't distinguish the bats, the aesthetics are the only thing that does.

All I'm saying is that it's natural to assume that what is more costly is better, while this is often not the case. Just because blemish free willow looks better, doesn't mean it plays any better.


It's like saying attractive women are always smart...... not always the case...

 

[Silencer]

I'm not saying low end bats will outplay top ends or vice versa; the onus however is on batmakers to prove that expensive bats perform better and until now they simply haven't.

Of course grains on higher end bats are going to be better; seeing as the performance doesn't distinguish the bats, the aesthetics are the only thing that does.

All I'm saying is that it's natural to assume that what is more costly is better, while this is often not the case. Just because blemish free willow looks better, doesn't mean it plays any better.

It's like saying attractive women are always smart...... not always the case...

Sorry to sneak but I think the price the batmaker charge for top of the line they basically assure you and give you words that it will play well!

With your theory you can say a Kashmiri Willow will be as good as Grade 1 English Willow because both are natural...

 

[shirazi_r]

Sorry to sneak but I think the price the batmaker charge for top of the line they basically assure you and give you words that it will play well!

With your theory you can say a Kashmiri Willow will be as good as Grade 1 English Willow because both are natural...

Incorrect, Kashmir Willow and English Willow have very different properties. KW is harder and more brittle where EW is a slightly softer wood. I said that most English Willow shares basic properties with certain discrepancies from tree to tree.

As for the batmakers word, you are not guaranteed anything other than aesthetics simply due to price.

 

[Silencer]

Incorrect, Kashmir Willow and English Willow have very different properties. KW is harder and more brittle where EW is a slightly softer wood. I said that most English Willow shares basic properties with certain discrepancies from tree to tree.

As for the batmakers word, you are not guaranteed anything other than aesthetics simply due to price.

But both are natural aren't they ?

Well when they charge that price they basically make you trust in them that this will perform.

Have you seen any top end bat which would have been plank?

 

[shirazi_r]

In that case, perhaps I should get a solid gold bat as the price will assure me it plays well. Oh, don't forget that it's natural.

You clearly haven't understood that this conversation is in the context of English Willow, and EW alone.

As for your question, I've recently seen an Adidas Libro Elite (Grade 1) which was an absolute plank.

Laver&Wood who are some of the most respected bat makers in the world have a range of bats that they grade solely on performance and some would aesthetically not even qualify as grade 2 willow by some standards.

I'm sorry you're suckered in by high price tags and straight grains but I don't subscribe to that philosophy.

 

[Silencer]

In that case, perhaps I should get a solid gold bat as the price will assure me it plays well. Oh, don't forget that it's natural.

You clearly haven't understood that this conversation is in the context of English Willow, and EW alone.

As for your question, I've recently seen an Adidas Libro Elite (Grade 1) which was an absolute plank.

Laver&Wood who are some of the most respected bat makers in the world have a range of bats that they grade solely on performance and some would aesthetically not even qualify as grade 2 willow by some standards.

I'm sorry you're suckered in by high price tags and straight grains but I don't subscribe to that philosophy.

You're not getting my point!!!

What I am saying is that how are you sooooo certain that a top end bat would perform just like a low end bat?! At some points you have said low end will play better than high end. If performance of lower ends was better than top ends then why would people buy and bat maker make top end bats? Surely not all of the buyers are blind?

Well Adidas are joke so who cares about them

There you go, you early said;

Note that most top end bats are graded on looks anyhow.

Thank you for proving yourself wrong.

When Cover Drive said that some manufacturer grade bats on performance you basically brushed off...

 

[shirazi_r]

You're not getting my point!!!

What I am saying is that how are you sooooo certain that a top end bat would perform just like a low end bat?! At some points you have said low end will play better than high end. If performance of lower ends was better than top ends then why would people buy and bat maker make top end bats? Surely not all of the buyers are blind?

Well Adidas are joke so who cares about them

There you go, you early said;



Thank you for proving yourself wrong.

When Cover Drive said that some manufacturer grade bats on performance you basically
brushed off...

Hmm... I guess you had a hard time understanding when I said "MOST" bats are graded on aesthetics.

Speaking of brushing off, you seem to be brushing off your beloved Grade 1 bats just because they're Adidas. It's "all in the willow" according to you.... so I guess the G1 EW that goes into Adidas isn't the same as others?

Please, do show me where I said that "low end bats WILL play better than top end bats".

I'm not sure what's worse to be honest, your rationale or your reading comprehension.

 

[Silencer]

Hmm... I guess you had a hard time understanding when I said "MOST" bats are graded on aesthetics.

Speaking of brushing off, you seem to be brushing off your beloved Grade 1 bats just because they're Adidas. It's "all in the willow" according to you.... so I guess the G1 EW that goes into Adidas isn't the same as others?

Please, do show me where I said that "low end bats WILL play better than top end bats".

I'm not sure what's worse to be honest, your rationale or your reading comprehension.

You're judging G1's based on one Adidas you saw.

 

[shirazi_r]

You're judging G1's based on one Adidas you saw.

I've seen plenty of G1s. You, however asked me if I'd ever seen a G1 that played like a plank and I answered yes.

 

[Cover Drive]

LOL @ Silencer's Adidas comment.

Riz Bhai, how are these Libro? I mean shape and feel wise?

 

[shirazi_r]

Riz Bhai, how are these Libro? I mean shape and feel wise?

CD, the pickup is decent but the edges and spine seem a bit lacking for the weight (2.9). There's very little curve so all in all, wouldn't recommend it to be honest.

 

[kakhtar88]

An interesting point to consider when it comes to willow grading and in regards to the straightness of the grains is the opening up of the grains as the bat matures.

If the grains are not straight but somewhat diagonal on the face then as some grains open up and start splitting, there is more of a chance that this might translate into splitting of the wood diagonally on the edges of the bat (since the grains finish on the edges). This will no doubt deteriorate the performance of the bat ( and may even end its life) compared to if the grains were straight.

 

[cricket_fan1]

Bat's performance depend upon not only grains.
Bat shape,style of player and care of bat play important role in performance of bat.
In grading grains are very important.

 

[Knightrider]

LOL can you prove that a low end will outplay top end?

I was explaining Majid the other day that it is not certain that top end bats will be plank and won't perform well. I believe in the top end bats there are minimum chances of getting a plank bat compare to low end bats. In other words, I believe percentage of good performance bat in higher end is greater compare to lower end.

Some companies grade bats based on performance.

Grains and look are important for high end bats because if they look horrible or the grains are not nice no one will buy them.

Sorry If am sounding bit rude
How will you explain to me or others when you dont even understand basics abt how willow is graded.
I been into bats for like 10 years and I've used and tried 100s of bats and have experienced of using different brands different grade bats. When you grow up and you might finally understand what Riz is saying is correct.

 

[Cover Drive]

Sorry If am sounding bit rude
How will you explain to me or others when you dont even understand basics abt how willow is graded.
I been into bats for like 10 years and I've used and tried 100s of bats and have experienced of using different brands different grade bats. When you grow up and you might finally understand what Riz is saying is correct.

Majid Sabb strikes with another gem!!) ))

To be honest, Majid Sabb good for you if you had been buying bats for past 10 years, do you need a souvenir ?

I'm good with my knowledge and I don't have to prove anyone

 

[cricket_fan1]

Please cool

 

[AamerM]

Any batmaker worth his salt will ensure that the top end bats perform to the max. They will not want any negative chat in dressing rooms or on internet forums .

The handles will be better and they will spend longer checking the quality of the blade, the balance and workmanship. The grains will be straight as cricket is played with a straight bat. Diagonal grains means the ball will be hit accross the grains and hence the chance of the bat splitting will be greater and it also helps with the looks.

Laver & Wood have obviously bought a shed load of willow from the UK, taken the best for their premium priced bats and have found a novel way of offloading the rest by grading them "on performance" as they don't sell lower end bats and there are probably not too many other bat manufacturers in NZ to whom they can pass on the rest of the clefts.

There will always be occasions where lower grade bats will outperform higher graded ones but you pay your money and take your chances.

 

[Cover Drive]

Any batmaker worth his salt will ensure that the top end bats perform to the max. They will not want any negative chat in dressing rooms or on internet forums .

The handles will be better and they will spend longer checking the quality of the blade, the balance and workmanship. The grains will be straight as cricket is played with a straight bat. Diagonal grains means the ball will be hit accross the grains and hence the chance of the bat splitting will be greater and it also helps with the looks.

Laver & Wood have obviously bought a shed load of willow from the UK, taken the best for their premium priced bats and have found a novel way of offloading the rest by grading them "on performance" as they don't sell lower end bats and there are probably not too many other bat manufacturers in NZ to whom they can pass on the rest of the clefts.

There will always be occasions where lower grade bats will outperform higher graded ones but you pay your money and take your chances.

Top post, couldn't have explained it better!!

With the Laver part I fully agree (although I agree with rest as well) but James, Andy and co played a very good trick here. I think the main art in bats performance is pressing so with those "ugly" clefts L&W will be pressing the bat to its perfection so it performs and they will have a good reputation around.

 

[momin97]

oof guys relax your not prooving crap if you keep argueing calm down its not a rumble just agree or disagree no need to get pissed about it if a person does or doesnt know anything who cares good for them just mind your own buisness believe what you want to believe far out what is soo hard about that lol

 

[Quick Single]

oof guys relax your not prooving crap if you keep argueing calm down its not a rumble fust agree or disagree no need to get pissed about it if a person does or soesnt know anything who cares good for them just mind your own buisness believe what you want to believe far out what is soo hard about that lol

Momin bhai they were just having a debate, that's what forums are for bhai.

 

[momin97]

yeh lol i know it started like that your right ,but by the end of it was getting serious in an indierect way lol