Questions from Muslims about Islam & Life Thread

[Greenstorm]

I said follow the Qur'aan and Hadeeth based on the understanding of Salaf, in theory these 3 generations:

Is there evidence from Quran and Prophet (PBUH) that we must follow tabi'een and tabaa tabi'een ?

1. The Prophet Muhammad’ (Peace and blessings be upon him) Companions (Allah is pleased with them) being the 1st.
2. The Taabi’een (the followers of the companions) being 2nd
3. The Tabaa’at-Taabi’een (the followers of the followers of the companions) being 3rd

Do you mind telling me on what Islamic grounds would I go against their understanding? Lets say that there is consensus or even near-consensus in these generations on an issue what is the evidence in Quraan and Sunnah that I should chart my own course and reject their understanding?

The following is incomplete and does not address all the evidence on the topic: https://ask.ghamidi.org/forums/discussion/1281/

Does he discuss this in a little more detail?

Scroll down to the end of the page on that link. There are multiple videos where he has addressed more hadiths on this issue. Watch this from 13:30 onwards;

Don't understand what you are trying to say.

Nvm.

 

[LordJames]

Is there evidence from Quran and Prophet (PBUH) that we must follow tabi'een and tabaa tabi'een ?

Scroll down to the end of the page on that link. There are multiple videos where he has addressed more hadiths on this issue. Watch this from 13:30 onwards;

Nvm.

I am Sorry but where exactly does the video answer the question (below)? And if you know, can you save the trouble and directly quote the evidence? No point in discussion Interest or apostasy etc we don't know what principles we are basing our discussion on?



I said follow the Qur'aan and Hadeeth based on the understanding of Salaf, in theory these 3 generations:

1. The Prophet Muhammad’ (Peace and blessings be upon him) Companions (Allah is pleased with them) being the 1st.
2. The Taabi’een (the followers of the companions) being 2nd
3. The Tabaa’at-Taabi’een (the followers of the followers of the companions) being 3rd

Do you mind telling me on what Islamic grounds would I go against their understanding? Lets say that there is consensus or even near-consensus in these generations on an issue what is the evidence in Quraan and Sunnah that I should chart my own course and reject their understanding?

 

[Greenstorm]

All the 4 madhabs believe that the punishment for apostasy is death but interestingly enough, this punishment was never done during the time of the Prophet (ﷺ), and it was more of deterrant, also note that this punishment would only be done after someone openly expresses their disbelief to the wider community (spreading fitna) and then a ruling in a sharia court where the accused would also be given a chance to repent before it is carried out. You have to understand that leaving Islam is an extreme act of disobeying the almighty creator, similar to how some countries view treason. You can Google the punishment for treason in different "liberal" countries and will be surprised to find that many had the death penalty for treason up until the late 20th century and even in the United States treason is still punishable by death right now.

Exactly. This is the reason why I brought this issue up because all 4 schools have consensus on it and its not related to everyday Muslims so we can have an objective discussion.

Also, punishing someone from treason or other violations of law for administrative purposes is different from making it an Islamic principle for all times.

 

[LordJames]

Exactly. This is the reason why I brought this issue up because all 4 schools have consensus on it and its not related to everyday Muslims so we can have an objective discussion.

Also, punishing someone from treason or other violations of law for administrative purposes is different from making it an Islamic principle for all times.

All the 4 madhabs believe that the punishment for apostasy is death but interestingly enough, this punishment was never done during the time of the Prophet (ﷺ), and it was more of deterrant, also note that this punishment would only be done after someone openly expresses their disbelief to the wider community (spreading fitna) and then a ruling in a sharia court where the accused would also be given a chance to repent before it is carried out. You have to understand that leaving Islam is an extreme act of disobeying the almighty creator, similar to how some countries view treason. You can Google the punishment for treason in different "liberal" countries and will be surprised to find that many had the death penalty for treason up until the late 20th century and even in the United States treason is still punishable by death right now.

This is what the post says in the first paragraph;

But if by "scholars" we mean the pious predecessors and classical authorities of Islam, then we need to be clear: there have always been legitimate scholarly disagreements on issues like:

• The conditions for establishing apostasy
• The validity of repentance after apostasy
• The time limit given for repentance
• Repeated or habitual apostasy, etc.

That doesn't mean that the punishment has been abrogated altogether OR should be abrogated. Can you quote me which Madhabs have abrogated the punishment, entirely and which scholars from the past?

 

[Greenstorm]

I am Sorry but where exactly does the video answer the question (below)? And if you know, can you save the trouble and directly quote the evidence? No point in discussion Interest or apostasy etc we don't know what principles we are basing our discussion on?



I said follow the Qur'aan and Hadeeth based on the understanding of Salaf, in theory these 3 generations:

1. The Prophet Muhammad’ (Peace and blessings be upon him) Companions (Allah is pleased with them) being the 1st.
2. The Taabi’een (the followers of the companions) being 2nd
3. The Tabaa’at-Taabi’een (the followers of the followers of the companions) being 3rd

Do you mind telling me on what Islamic grounds would I go against their understanding? Lets say that there is consensus or even near-consensus in these generations on an issue what is the evidence in Quraan and Sunnah that I should chart my own course and reject their understanding?

Brother, I have already addressed this and I will repeat;

Is there evidence from Quran and Prophet (PBUH) that we must follow tabi'een and tabaa tabi'een ?

I am open to a discussion on particular topics like apostasy based on Quran and Sunnah but if you want me to first believe blindly the understanding of tabi'een and taba tabi'een then at least present your case for such a stance from Quran
and Sunnah.

Also, its alright if you don't want to discuss anything that goes against the understanding of generations following Prophet (PBUH). I won't take this any further in that case. Thanks.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Language of Friday Khutbah

1. Everyone agrees that it is superior to deliver Friday Khutbah in Arabic and that is pretty much agreed
2. Mufti Taqi Usmani believes that in non-Arabic it is invalid as Arabic is a condition of Friday Khutbah
3. Islamic Fiqh Council | Muslim World League passed a resolution that Arabic is not a condition for validity of the Friday Khutbah. However, it is better to perform the introductions to the sermon and the Qur’anic verses it contains in the Arabic language to accustom non-Arabs to hearing Arabic and the Qur’an, which makes it easier for them to learn it and read the Qur’an in the language in which it was revealed.

Dictation of Friday Khutbah

The whole of Middle East pretty much? How can the Imam of Kabah praise Donald Trump in Masjidul-Haram (Makkah)???

Thanks .

I dont agree with point 2. What if there are 3 new muslims , one can lead jummah only knowing the Quranic words to pray but may not know enough to talk in arabic during khutbah.

This was an important opportunity to discuss and give information on the relevant topic facing the community. Maybe a speech before but most only do the ritual aspect .

 

[Greenstorm]

This is what the post says in the first paragraph;

But if by "scholars" we mean the pious predecessors and classical authorities of Islam, then we need to be clear: there have always been legitimate scholarly disagreements on issues like:

• The conditions for establishing apostasy
• The validity of repentance after apostasy
• The time limit given for repentance
• Repeated or habitual apostasy, etc.

That doesn't mean that the punishment has been abrogated altogether OR should be abrogated. Can you quote me which Madhabs have abrogated the punishment, entirely and which scholars from the past?

I never said that any mazhab has abrogated this punishment. My stance is that four schools of thought came to wrong conclusion on this issue because they didn't understood the concept of ihtamam e hujjat. Actions and sayings of Prophet (PBUH) and his companions were wrongly interpreted imo.

 

[LordJames]

Brother, I have already addressed this and I will repeat;

Is there evidence from Quran and Prophet (PBUH) that we must follow tabi'een and tabaa tabi'een ?

I am open to a discussion on particular topics like apostasy based on Quran and Sunnah but if you want me to first believe blindly the understanding of tabi'een and taba tabi'een then at least present your case for such a stance from Quran
and Sunnah.

Also, its alright if you don't want to discuss anything that goes against the understanding of generations following Prophet (PBUH). I won't take this any further in that case. Thanks.

So you don't believe that Muslims should follow the understanding of the Salaf so in that case we have a fundamental disagreement and I wish you the best of luck.

Next time, please state your principles first before discussing an issue. There is nothing to discuss here any further.

My best wishes to you, I am not knowledgeable in the area where you dwell so I would like to politely take your leave.

I never said that any mazhab has abrogated this punishment. My stance is that four schools of thought came to wrong conclusion on this issue because they didn't understood the concept of ihtamam e hujjat. Actions and sayings of Prophet (PBUH) and his companions were wrongly interpreted imo.

Ijma of 4 schools of thought is wrong and someone on YouTube in present day is correct! As I said to you most sincerely, best of luck.

 

[LordJames]

Thanks .

I dont agree with point 2. What if there are 3 new muslims , one can lead jummah only knowing the Quranic words to pray but may not know enough to talk in arabic during khutbah.

This was an important opportunity to discuss and give information on the relevant topic facing the community. Maybe a speech before but most only do the ritual aspect .

There are two issues to understand, here is the first (skipping the evidence for brevity)

1. Arabic is a condition for Friday Khutbah.
2. Arabic is not a condition for Friday Khutbah.

This is a difference of opinion and person has 2 choices (2nd issue):

1. If a person is well versed then study the evidence of both directly and ascertain which one is stronger
2. If a person is not well versed then he/she has to make Taqleed (follow) a scholar whom he/she trusts can convey the strongest opinion to them so many Mosques (in the West) follow Mufti Taqi Usmani and many don't

As an example, when we quote a Hadeeth from Saheeh Bukhari, we are making Taqleed (following) the research of Imam Bukhari and trusting his judgement.

The scenario which you are describing is that a person knows enough Quran to read in Salah, in that case if two cases occur:

• If he is following the opinion of Mufti Taqi Usmani, then he will just read the Quran he knows (split between 2 Khutbahs)
• If he is following the other opinion then he will read the Quran to begin and then switch to other language.

The Urdu/English talk before Khutbah is not from the Sunnah it is a stop-gap solution and permissible. There is no "talk" in Islam before Friday Khutbah, its just Khutbah but because a large number of people don't understand Arabic, this talk is done to make them understand whatever the Imam is trying to convey.

 

[Greenstorm]

So you don't believe that Muslims should follow the understanding of the Salaf so in that case we have a fundamental disagreement and I wish you the best of luck.

Next time, please state your principles first before discussing an issue. There is nothing to discuss here any further.

My best wishes to you, I am not knowledgeable in the area where you dwell so I would like to politely take your leave.



Ijma of 4 schools of thought is wrong and someone on YouTube in present day is correct! As I said to you most sincerely, best of luck.

Goodluck to you brother as well. May Allah guide us all.

 

[Greenstorm]

I don't think Apostasy should be a death penalty and nor will I believe it is. Religion is a personal thing and no one should be forced to believe anything. Not having any great knowledge in this area, I wonder if apostasy has been confused with treachery, which is death penalty in most countries, throughout history.

Yes early Muslim theorists mixed treason with leaving faith. In this case, there is nothing conclusive either from Quran or life of Holy Prophet (PBUH) that merits such harsh verdict.

 

[LordJames]

Pray Fajr:

When you pray Faj'r, your whole day is blessed and your daily affairs are protected. Next time if you miss it, think about the free protection which you have declined for your whole day. Repent as soon as you realize it, pray the Qadha and continue your day.

It was narrated from Samurah bin Jundab that the Prophet (ﷺ) said: “Whoever offers the morning prayer, he is under the protection ofAllah, the Mighty and Sublime.” [Ibn Majah]

If you have problems and difficulties in your life and in your day, this is easy protection for you to avail at no cost.

Develop a habit of getting up for a few minutes, pray and go back to sleep so you, your family and all your affairs are protected.

 

[Suleiman]

Pray Fajr:

When you pray Faj'r, your whole day is blessed and your daily affairs are protected. Next time if you miss it, think about the free protection which you have declined for your whole day. Repent as soon as you realize it, pray the Qadha and continue your day.



If you have problems and difficulties in your life and in your day, this is easy protection for you to avail at no cost.

Develop a habit of getting up for a few minutes, pray and go back to sleep so you, your family and all your affairs are protected.

Absolutely brother.

To add:

 

[Justcrazy]

Sure, the reference is already there but here it is:

This is the Athar about Nikah without Wali being valid

إسلام ويب - موطأ مالك - كتاب الطلاق - باب ما لا يبين من التمليك- الجزء رقم1

اكتشف قصة زواج حفصة بنت عبد الرحمن المنذر بن الزبير في زمن النبي محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم. تتناول الأحداث كيف تم تزويج حفصة بينما كان عبد الرحمن غائبًا في الشام، وكيف أثر ذلك على العلاقة بين الأطراف المعنية. تكشف القصة عن مشاعر عبد الرحمن عند عودته ورؤيته للزواج، وشدته في موقفه تجاه الأمر. تجربة...

www.islamweb.net

Here in this hadeeth , the conducting of marriage is taken as arranging the marriage , not the permission given.

Also , I found another hadeeth in Muwatta Malik

Yahya related to me from Malik that he had heard that Said ibn al-Musayyab had said that Umar ibn al-Khattab said, "A woman is only married with the consent of her guardian, someone of her family with sound judgement or the Sultan.

( 1098 )

 

[Justcrazy]

Yes early Muslim theorists mixed treason with leaving faith. In this case, there is nothing conclusive either from Quran or life of Holy Prophet (PBUH) that merits such harsh verdict.

My understanding is that this kind of punishment is given by an Islamic state . In an Islamic state , Quran and Hadeeth are the constitution , if someone refuses to reject the constitution , then it is taken as treason. That is why the punishment is harsh.

I think there was one such person called Abdullah bin sarah who challenged the status of prophet and left Islam , prophet told he should be killed for this , the reason was not that he abused or said something about Muhammad the person , he spoke against Muhammad the messenger , which was like challenging the sovereignty of the Land.

Even now , if we challenge the authority of a state , the punishment is death in most countries.

Later uthman hide him in his house and on his request the prophet reluctantly accepted his apology.

 

[Justcrazy]

Brother, I have already addressed this and I will repeat;

Is there evidence from Quran and Prophet (PBUH) that we must follow tabi'een and tabaa tabi'een ?
.

Tabaeein and tabaa Tabaieen or even companions cannot be followed blindly.

The authority is Quran and hadeeth, and their actions will also be judged according to that. Also , the first preference is what is proved from the prophet himself , if it contradicts with a companion , we will follow the prophet.

 

[Suleiman]

Watch from 37:45 onward if you can’t watch whole video then the next 3 mins or so at least:

The importance of patience and steadfastness on the laws Allah even when things look bleak. Sahaba (May Allah be pleased with them) starving from hunger during war but chose not to eat haram and Allah rewarded them shortly after.

Not only does it answer the folks who say “why are Muslims always losing” but also how to incorporate this into our own lives, like in marriage, not taking interest / riba, eating halal, etc. All of that regarding halal and haram compounds into worship as well.

Highly recommend watching the entire series of the Seerah duroos with Sheikh Uthman Ibn Farooq from the video. Authentic Hadith only, refutes a lot of weak Hadith that unfortunately we are taught regarding the Seerah growing up but are baseless:

Life of the Messenger ﷺ - السيرة النبوية

السيرة النبوية من الأحاديث الصحيحة

youtube.com

 

[LordJames]

Tabaeein and tabaa Tabaieen or even companions cannot be followed blindly.

The authority is Quran and hadeeth, and their actions will also be judged according to that. Also , the first preference is what is proved from the prophet himself , if it contradicts with a companion , we will follow the prophet.

Nobody ever said it the way you are interpreting it. The query is as follows (copy/paste):

I said follow the Qur'aan and Hadeeth based on the understanding of Salaf, in theory these 3 generations:

1. The Prophet Muhammad’ (Peace and blessings be upon him) Companions (Allah is pleased with them) being the 1st.
2. The Taabi’een (the followers of the companions) being 2nd
3. The Tabaa’at-Taabi’een (the followers of the followers of the companions) being 3rd

Do you mind telling me on what Islamic grounds would I go against their understanding? Lets say that there is consensus or even near-consensus in these generations on an issue what is the evidence in Quraan and Sunnah that I should chart my own course and reject their understanding?

Here in this hadeeth , the conducting of marriage is taken as arranging the marriage , not the permission given.

Also , I found another hadeeth in Muwatta Malik

Yahya related to me from Malik that he had heard that Said ibn al-Musayyab had said that Umar ibn al-Khattab said, "A woman is only married with the consent of her guardian, someone of her family with sound judgement or the Sultan.

( 1098 )

Yes, the matter is disagreed upon and it is known. Some scholars believe that marriage of a woman without the consent of the Wali is valid while others believe that it is invalid. Each side disagrees precisely because of the interpretation of the evidence, the Hadeeth from Imam Muwatta is one of the evidence of the other side and one of the argument is that its about "arranging the marriage" and "not conducting the marriage".

All of this is clear from the beginning.

My understanding is that this kind of punishment is given by an Islamic state . In an Islamic state , Quran and Hadeeth are the constitution , if someone refuses to reject the constitution , then it is taken as treason. That is why the punishment is harsh.

I think there was one such person called Abdullah bin sarah who challenged the status of prophet and left Islam , prophet told he should be killed for this , the reason was not that he abused or said something about Muhammad the person , he spoke against Muhammad the messenger , which was like challenging the sovereignty of the Land.

Even now , if we challenge the authority of a state , the punishment is death in most countries.

Later uthman hide him in his house and on his request the prophet reluctantly accepted his apology.

Already said this, somewhere...

My understanding is that this kind of punishment is given by an Islamic state .

What I am trying to argue is that lack of an Islamic authority or Judicial system does not abrogate the punishment and nobody has the authority to do that. If you are trying to put forth is that the application and execution of punishment is paused temporarily because some the conditions are missing then we are on the same page and no issue.

 

[LordJames]

Soft to Muslims

We are commanded to be soft towards believers and compassionate so:

1. Back off
2. Let it go
3. Lose the argument

And it is particularly important for family, friends and loved ones let alone random Muslims which we meet and interact with during our daily lives.

[48:29] Muḥammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those with him are firm with the disbelievers and compassionate with one another. You see them bowing and prostrating2 ˹in prayer˺, seeking Allah’s bounty and pleasure. The sign ˹of brightness can be seen˺ on their faces from the trace of prostrating ˹in prayer˺. This is their description in the Torah. And their parable in the Gospel is that of a seed that sprouts its ˹tiny˺ branches, making it strong. Then it becomes thick, standing firmly on its stem, to the delight of the planters4—in this way Allah makes the believers a source of dismay for the disbelievers.5 To those of them who believe and do good, Allah has promised forgiveness and a great reward.

 

[Suleiman]

Soft to Muslims

We are commanded to be soft towards believers and compassionate so:

1. Back off
2. Let it go
3. Lose the argument

And it is particularly important for family, friends and loved ones let alone random Muslims which we meet and interact with during our daily lives.

[48:29] Muḥammad is the Messenger of Allah. And those with him are firm with the disbelievers and compassionate with one another. You see them bowing and prostrating2 ˹in prayer˺, seeking Allah’s bounty and pleasure. The sign ˹of brightness can be seen˺ on their faces from the trace of prostrating ˹in prayer˺. This is their description in the Torah. And their parable in the Gospel is that of a seed that sprouts its ˹tiny˺ branches, making it strong. Then it becomes thick, standing firmly on its stem, to the delight of the planters4—in this way Allah makes the believers a source of dismay for the disbelievers.5 To those of them who believe and do good, Allah has promised forgiveness and a great reward.

How should it be toward non-Muslims regarding this topic?

 

[LordJames]

How should it be toward non-Muslims regarding this topic?

Kind, fulfill their rights and focus on Dawah.

 

[LordJames]

Watch from 37:45 onward if you can’t watch whole video then the next 3 mins or so at least:

The importance of patience and steadfastness on the laws Allah even when things look bleak. Sahaba (May Allah be pleased with them) starving from hunger during war but chose not to eat haram and Allah rewarded them shortly after.

Not only does it answer the folks who say “why are Muslims always losing” but also how to incorporate this into our own lives, like in marriage, not taking interest / riba, eating halal, etc. All of that regarding halal and haram compounds into worship as well.

Highly recommend watching the entire series of the Seerah duroos with Sheikh Uthman Ibn Farooq from the video. Authentic Hadith only, refutes a lot of weak Hadith that unfortunately we are taught regarding the Seerah growing up but are baseless:

Life of the Messenger ﷺ - السيرة النبوية

السيرة النبوية من الأحاديث الصحيحة

youtube.com

I think that this individual is Uthman Khan and I don't listen to him but I do follow Social Media and this person makes pretty basic errors like this and this. There are details of his error (beyond just the chain of transmission) about the narrations on Yemen which sparked people to start looking at this.

And in the second clip it is not pronounced "Nafiyy" but Nafi Mawla Ibn Umar, he is the well known because he is part of the golden transmission of Hadeeth, just "Nafi" is enough to know whom we are talking about.

Absolutely condemn the words and vocabulary which some Muslims on Social Media use against Uthman Khan but our brother is making basic errors may be he is getting emotional or whatever and then his emotions are getting the better of him, I don't know.

 

[Suleiman]

I think that this individual is Uthman Khan and I don't listen to him but I do follow Social Media and this person makes pretty basic errors like this and this. There are details of his error (beyond just the chain of transmission) about the narrations on Yemen which sparked people to start looking at this.

And in the second clip it is not pronounced "Nafiyy" but Nafi Mawla Ibn Umar, he is the well known because he is part of the golden transmission of Hadeeth, just "Nafi" is enough to know whom we are talking about.

Absolutely condemn the words and vocabulary which some Muslims on Social Media use against Uthman Khan but our brother is making basic errors may be he is getting emotional or whatever and then his emotions are getting the better of him, I don't know.

This is the full vid regarding Hazrat Khadijah (may Allah be pleased with her):

 

[Suleiman]

@LordJames

Here’s the vid regarding the Yemen Hadith,

The second tweet you linked posted by brother Farid and this one regarding Yemen, yes he has slip of tongue here and there but across many many duroos throughout the week across different countries while also working a proper full time job to fund his ability to give dawah and work in the deen, sheikh here has slip of the tongue, but when called out he makes sure to correct them (like here). The original vid where he misspoke regarding Yemen was while he was conducting an Umrah trip for reverted social media Muslims and another sheikh, Sheikh Assim Al Hakeem misrepresented the Hadith of Yemen to a brother named Sneako who got the impression that there’s racial superiority in Islam regarding Yemen, which isn’t true. And so Sheikh Uthman was correcting that in the original video, but in doing so he didn’t go in depth regarding chain of narration like above (the above video is the correction, the one below is where he made the mistake regarding the chain) :

Brother Farid as you know himself refers to Sheikh Uthman many a times regarding naseeha, and Farid himself is very knowledgeable in his own right.

 

[LordJames]

This is the full vid regarding Hazrat Khadijah (may Allah be pleased with her):

I have actually taken the time to watch this, do you understand the point he is making and his evidence?

 

[Suleiman]

I have actually taken the time to watch this, do you understand the point he is making and his evidence?

Yes. This is the condensed video, there is a longer one as well by him I watched last year I believe.

Overall, I understand that he has slip ups in walk and talk vids like the above, but I do not believe it’s lack of knowledge most of the times, it’s just the vastness of the content and to be able to say it off memory purely and thinking the right thing but saying the wrong one. But it happens no where near as the first twitter post attacking him makes it out to be. Farid imo feels the same way and he is well versed in Islam as well. I’ve noticed it 1-2 times in the entire series of 100+ duroos as well, basic things like associating the wrong name later in the vid when at the start of the vid he said it right.

Allah knows best.

 

[Champ_Pal]

@LordJames

Here’s the vid regarding the Yemen Hadith,

The second tweet you linked posted by brother Farid and this one regarding Yemen, yes he has slip of tongue here and there but across many many duroos throughout the week across different countries while also working a proper full time job to fund his ability to give dawah and work in the deen, sheikh here has slip of the tongue, but when called out he makes sure to correct them (like here). The original vid where he misspoke regarding Yemen was while he was conducting an Umrah trip for reverted social media Muslims and another sheikh, Sheikh Assim Al Hakeem misrepresented the Hadith of Yemen to a brother named Sneako who got the impression that there’s racial superiority in Islam regarding Yemen, which isn’t true. And so Sheikh Uthman was correcting that in the original video, but in doing so he didn’t go in depth regarding chain of narration like above (the above video is the correction, the one below is where he made the mistake regarding the chain) :

Brother Farid as you know himself refers to Sheikh Uthman many a times regarding naseeha, and Farid himself is very knowledgeable in his own right.

I see that extremist Ali Dawah in the video. I hope he does not represent Muslims and no one is idolizing him.

 

[LordJames]

Yes. This is the condensed video, there is a longer one as well by him I watched last year I believe.

Overall, I understand that he has slip ups in walk and talk vids like the above, but I do not believe it’s lack of knowledge most of the times, it’s just the vastness of the content and to be able to say it off memory purely and thinking the right thing but saying the wrong one. But it happens no where near as the first twitter post attacking him makes it out to be. Farid imo feels the same way and he is well versed in Islam as well. I’ve noticed it 1-2 times in the entire series of 100+ duroos as well, basic things like associating the wrong name later in the vid when at the start of the vid he said it right.

Allah knows best.

This is the full vid regarding Hazrat Khadijah (may Allah be pleased with her):

Age of Khadija (may God be pleased with her)

There is nothing in the Qur'aan and Sunnah about her age, zero, zilch and this isn't part of "belief" of anyone in Islam

However what does exist is from books of history and two "historical mentions" from the same book and almost the same page

40:

وأما سن أم المؤمنين خديجة ـ رضي الله عنها ـ عند زواج النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم منها: فلم يثبت فيه حديث صحيح والمشهور عند أصحاب السير أنها كانت في الأربعين من عمرها ـ رضي الله عنها ـ فقد أخرج ابن سعد في الطبقات قال: أخبرنا محمد بن عمر، أخبرنا المنذر بن عبد الله الحزامي، عن موسى بن عقبة عن أبي حبيبة، مولى الزبير قال: سمعت حكيم بن حزام يقول: تزوج رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم خديجة وهي ابنة أربعين سنة، ورسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ابن خمس وعشرين سنة، وكانت خديجة أسن مني بسنتين ولدت قبل الفيل بخمس عشرة سنة، وولدت أنا قبل الفيل بثلاث عشرة سنة ـ قال محمد بن عمر: ونحن نقول ومن عندنا من أهل العلم، إن خديجة ولدت قبل الفيل بخمس عشرة سنة، وإنها كانت يوم تزوجها رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بنت أربعين سنة، ومحمد بن عمر الواقدي متروك.
​

Problem:

Al-Waqidi is considered "Matrook" (rejected or abandoned) and sometimes "Daeef" (weak) in Hadeeth narrations, but historians have quoted from him because the burden of authenticity is much lower and this is his biography calling him "weak" and not "Matrook" in introduction

28:

وروي أن عمرها كان ثمانية وعشرين عاما، فقد أخرج ابن سعد في الطبقات قال: أخبرنا هشام بن محمد بن السائب، عن أبيه، عن أبي صالح عن ابن عباس قال: كانت خديجة يوم تزوجها رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ابنة ثمان وعشرين سنة، ومهرها اثنتي عشرة أوقية، وكذلك كانت مهور نسائه ـ وهشام الكلبي متروك.
​

Problem:

Al-Waqidi is considered "Matrook" (rejected or abandoned) in Hadeeth narrations, but historians have quoted from him because the burden of authenticity is much lower and this is his biography by clearly calling him "Matrook".

As I said, all of the above is pretty much on the same page of the book.

If someone wants to "discuss" a topic of almost no-relevance in Islam then in my opinion to set the scene and give the full picture, they should say:

1. All in all there is nothing authentic either way in Hadeeth​
2. Historical records in Islam are not scrutinized the same way as Hadeeth.​
3. Waqidi is Matrook or weak in Hadeeth narration but there are at least 4 narrations of her age being 40​
4. Ibn-Kalbi is also weak (at least) or even Matrook so his 28 year historical Accounts are not without problems but Ibn Kathir prefers his singular historical record over 4 separate historical records preferred by other scholars.​
5. When we are grading narrators we are referring to the matter of Hadeeth and not histrory.​

But of course she had multiple children so is it possible to do so after the age of 40??? I don't know may be or may be not. My mother had my youngest brother at 47 (answering Yasir Qadhi who emphasies the 3 kids after 40 part...)

The same authority Imam Dhahibi has downgraded both Al-Waqidi (40 year) and Ibn-Kalbi (28) in the same book but referes to Al-Waqidi (merely as weak) but Ibn-Kalbi (as Matrook).

I don't understand why someone would not give a full picture to those can't access this information directly in Arabic but whatever people want to consider her age because there isn't anything in Quran and Sunnah. History doesn't have the same level of authenticity as narrations and a narrator can be "weak" or "rejected" in Hadeeth while perfectly fine in historical matters.

 

[LordJames]

Its critical to understand that neither Al-Waqidi nor

Age of Khadija (may God be pleased with her)

There is nothing in the Qur'aan and Sunnah about her age, zero, zilch and this isn't part of "belief" of anyone in Islam

However what does exist is from books of history and two "historical mentions" from the same book and almost the same page

40:

وأما سن أم المؤمنين خديجة ـ رضي الله عنها ـ عند زواج النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم منها: فلم يثبت فيه حديث صحيح والمشهور عند أصحاب السير أنها كانت في الأربعين من عمرها ـ رضي الله عنها ـ فقد أخرج ابن سعد في الطبقات قال: أخبرنا محمد بن عمر، أخبرنا المنذر بن عبد الله الحزامي، عن موسى بن عقبة عن أبي حبيبة، مولى الزبير قال: سمعت حكيم بن حزام يقول: تزوج رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم خديجة وهي ابنة أربعين سنة، ورسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ابن خمس وعشرين سنة، وكانت خديجة أسن مني بسنتين ولدت قبل الفيل بخمس عشرة سنة، وولدت أنا قبل الفيل بثلاث عشرة سنة ـ قال محمد بن عمر: ونحن نقول ومن عندنا من أهل العلم، إن خديجة ولدت قبل الفيل بخمس عشرة سنة، وإنها كانت يوم تزوجها رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بنت أربعين سنة، ومحمد بن عمر الواقدي متروك.
​

Problem:

Al-Waqidi is considered "Matrook" (rejected or abandoned) and sometimes "Daeef" (weak) in Hadeeth narrations, but historians have quoted from him because the burden of authenticity is much lower and this is his biography calling him "weak" and not "Matrook" in introduction

28:

وروي أن عمرها كان ثمانية وعشرين عاما، فقد أخرج ابن سعد في الطبقات قال: أخبرنا هشام بن محمد بن السائب، عن أبيه، عن أبي صالح عن ابن عباس قال: كانت خديجة يوم تزوجها رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ابنة ثمان وعشرين سنة، ومهرها اثنتي عشرة أوقية، وكذلك كانت مهور نسائه ـ وهشام الكلبي متروك.
​

Problem:

Al-Waqidi is considered "Matrook" (rejected or abandoned) in Hadeeth narrations, but historians have quoted from him because the burden of authenticity is much lower and this is his biography by clearly calling him "Matrook".

As I said, all of the above is pretty much on the same page of the book.

If someone wants to "discuss" a topic of almost no-relevance in Islam then in my opinion to set the scene and give the full picture, they should say:

1. All in all there is nothing authentic either way in Hadeeth​
2. Historical records in Islam are not scrutinized the same way as Hadeeth.​
3. Waqidi is Matrook or weak in Hadeeth narration but there are at least 4 narrations of her age being 40​
4. Ibn-Kalbi is also weak (at least) or even Matrook so his 28 year historical Accounts are not without problems but Ibn Kathir prefers his singular historical record over 4 separate historical records preferred by other scholars.​
5. When we are grading narrators we are referring to the matter of Hadeeth and not histrory.​

But of course she had multiple children so is it possible to do so after the age of 40??? I don't know may be or may be not. My mother had my youngest brother at 47 (answering Yasir Qadhi who emphasies the 3 kids after 40 part...)

The same authority Imam Dhahibi has downgraded both Al-Waqidi (40 year) and Ibn-Kalbi (28) in the same book but referes to Al-Waqidi (merely as weak) but Ibn-Kalbi (as Matrook).

I don't understand why someone would not give a full picture to those can't access this information directly in Arabic but whatever people want to consider her age because there isn't anything in Quran and Sunnah. History doesn't have the same level of authenticity as narrations and a narrator can be "weak" or "rejected" in Hadeeth while perfectly fine in historical matters.

Sorry copy/paste error!

Read "Ibn-Kalbi" in the historical reference number 2

I apologize for the typo but I think everyone will get the summary.

 

[Justcrazy]

Yes, the matter is disagreed upon and it is known. Some scholars believe that marriage of a woman without the consent of the Wali is valid while others believe that it is invalid. Each side disagrees precisely because of the interpretation of the evidence, the Hadeeth from Imam Muwatta is one of the evidence of the other side and one of the argument is that its about "arranging the marriage" and "not conducting the marriage".

In the hadeeth that Hanafis give as evidence , Abdar Rehman says he already had decided the matter. So the consent already existed.

Now , in the other anti Hanafi hadeeeth , those are marfoo , prophet himself saying that. It is also strengthened by Umar hadeeth.

So , Aisha cannot go against that , natural inference is that the hadeeth is not talking about Aisha acting as a wali but making arrangements.

 

[Justcrazy]

Nobody ever said it the way you are interpreting it. The query is as follows (copy/paste):

I said follow the Qur'aan and Hadeeth based on the understanding of Salaf, in theory these 3 generations:

1. The Prophet Muhammad’ (Peace and blessings be upon him) Companions (Allah is pleased with them) being the 1st.
2. The Taabi’een (the followers of the companions) being 2nd
3. The Tabaa’at-Taabi’een (the followers of the followers of the companions) being 3rd

Do you mind telling me on what Islamic grounds would I go against their understanding? Lets say that there is consensus or even near-consensus in these generations on an issue what is the evidence in Quraan and Sunnah that I should chart my own course and reject their understanding?

I did not say we should reject their understanding , I said we will see the matters in the light of the Quran and hadeeth.

 

[Suleiman]

I see that extremist Ali Dawah in the video. I hope he does not represent Muslims and no one is idolizing him.

He loves to give Dawah to Indians and bringing them to Islam. So definitely check under your bed and make sure the door is locked, otherwise you’ll wake up tomorrow as a Muslim !!

 

[Suleiman]

Age of Khadija (may God be pleased with her)

There is nothing in the Qur'aan and Sunnah about her age, zero, zilch and this isn't part of "belief" of anyone in Islam

However what does exist is from books of history and two "historical mentions" from the same book and almost the same page

40:

وأما سن أم المؤمنين خديجة ـ رضي الله عنها ـ عند زواج النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم منها: فلم يثبت فيه حديث صحيح والمشهور عند أصحاب السير أنها كانت في الأربعين من عمرها ـ رضي الله عنها ـ فقد أخرج ابن سعد في الطبقات قال: أخبرنا محمد بن عمر، أخبرنا المنذر بن عبد الله الحزامي، عن موسى بن عقبة عن أبي حبيبة، مولى الزبير قال: سمعت حكيم بن حزام يقول: تزوج رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم خديجة وهي ابنة أربعين سنة، ورسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ابن خمس وعشرين سنة، وكانت خديجة أسن مني بسنتين ولدت قبل الفيل بخمس عشرة سنة، وولدت أنا قبل الفيل بثلاث عشرة سنة ـ قال محمد بن عمر: ونحن نقول ومن عندنا من أهل العلم، إن خديجة ولدت قبل الفيل بخمس عشرة سنة، وإنها كانت يوم تزوجها رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بنت أربعين سنة، ومحمد بن عمر الواقدي متروك.
​

Problem:

Al-Waqidi is considered "Matrook" (rejected or abandoned) and sometimes "Daeef" (weak) in Hadeeth narrations, but historians have quoted from him because the burden of authenticity is much lower and this is his biography calling him "weak" and not "Matrook" in introduction

28:

وروي أن عمرها كان ثمانية وعشرين عاما، فقد أخرج ابن سعد في الطبقات قال: أخبرنا هشام بن محمد بن السائب، عن أبيه، عن أبي صالح عن ابن عباس قال: كانت خديجة يوم تزوجها رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ابنة ثمان وعشرين سنة، ومهرها اثنتي عشرة أوقية، وكذلك كانت مهور نسائه ـ وهشام الكلبي متروك.
​

Problem:

Al-Waqidi is considered "Matrook" (rejected or abandoned) in Hadeeth narrations, but historians have quoted from him because the burden of authenticity is much lower and this is his biography by clearly calling him "Matrook".

As I said, all of the above is pretty much on the same page of the book.

If someone wants to "discuss" a topic of almost no-relevance in Islam then in my opinion to set the scene and give the full picture, they should say:

1. All in all there is nothing authentic either way in Hadeeth​
2. Historical records in Islam are not scrutinized the same way as Hadeeth.​
3. Waqidi is Matrook or weak in Hadeeth narration but there are at least 4 narrations of her age being 40​
4. Ibn-Kalbi is also weak (at least) or even Matrook so his 28 year historical Accounts are not without problems but Ibn Kathir prefers his singular historical record over 4 separate historical records preferred by other scholars.​
5. When we are grading narrators we are referring to the matter of Hadeeth and not histrory.​

But of course she had multiple children so is it possible to do so after the age of 40??? I don't know may be or may be not. My mother had my youngest brother at 47 (answering Yasir Qadhi who emphasies the 3 kids after 40 part...)

The same authority Imam Dhahibi has downgraded both Al-Waqidi (40 year) and Ibn-Kalbi (28) in the same book but referes to Al-Waqidi (merely as weak) but Ibn-Kalbi (as Matrook).

I don't understand why someone would not give a full picture to those can't access this information directly in Arabic but whatever people want to consider her age because there isn't anything in Quran and Sunnah. History doesn't have the same level of authenticity as narrations and a narrator can be "weak" or "rejected" in Hadeeth while perfectly fine in historical matters.

Appreciate you taking your time with this brother.

I have not forgotten to reply. Want to be thorough and put thought into my reply as well, In Sha Allah.

 

[LordJames]

I did not say we should reject their understanding , I said we will see the matters in the light of the Quran and hadeeth.

You can't understand Quraan and Hadeeth without the Salaf and that's my point.

 

[Justcrazy]

You can't understand Quraan and Hadeeth without the Salaf and that's my point.

I said the same thing , what I added is that we need to see that through the lens of the Quran and hadeeth. There may be an opinion of a salaf , which contradicts the evidence , we cannot accept that on the face value.