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Racism in the Gulf

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I've heard a lot of south asians talk about racism in the Persian gulf countries (the Arab ones), I was wondering if any one who has lived in the Gulf could share their experiences with racism.

Thanks
 
Too much. Cant summarize in one thread and too lazy to type many threads
 
I have lived in KSA for 2 years.

I could write a page on racism against South Asians, especially Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis. I also suspect the usual Arab defenders will be all over this thread, good luck!
 
[MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] already wrote a post about his stay in Qatar in one of the threads.
 
Lived in Kuwait for 15 years, parents still do.

Of course there's racism. It's sweet Karma when the Arabs get subject to racism in the West as well.
 
The Gulf is mainly made up of Islamic countries so we should perhaps start asking the question whether racism has it's roots in the Islamic religion. The case has already been proposed that child abuse can be directly linked to Islam by some Pakistan intellectuals, can we really ignore the elephant in the room here where race is concerned?
 
The Gulf is mainly made up of Islamic countries so we should perhaps start asking the question whether racism has it's roots in the Islamic religion. The case has already been proposed that child abuse can be directly linked to Islam by some Pakistan intellectuals, can we really ignore the elephant in the room here where race is concerned?

I doubt you will be able to have an honest discussion about Islam in this forum.
 
I doubt you will be able to have an honest discussion about Islam in this forum.

Do you feel Islamic racism is being covered up? I think we need that honest discussion if we are going to root this evil out.
 
I would never want to live in a place like Saudi Arabia. Worst people on earth.
 
Do you feel Islamic racism is being covered up? I think we need that honest discussion if we are going to root this evil out.

If the founder of the religion bought and sold slaves, then human rights were at a discount. Historically Arabs have never viewed their southern black neighbors as equals. The non-Arabs like the Ottomans liked their black slaves who worked in their harems castrated.

Once a black converts to Islam, in theory he is equal. However, beyond theory is real life and you can learn about real life by the real behavior of real humans through the centuries.
 
If the founder of the religion bought and sold slaves, then human rights were at a discount. Historically Arabs have never viewed their southern black neighbors as equals. The non-Arabs like the Ottomans liked their black slaves who worked in their harems castrated.

Once a black converts to Islam, in theory he is equal. However, beyond theory is real life and you can learn about real life by the real behavior of real humans through the centuries.

Absolutely horrifying. Makes me quite angry that whole swathes of my ancestors converted to Islam ( or more probably were forced to abandon their original faith under the sword!) and thus are doomed to repeat this racism inherited from the Arabs forever, while the rest of the subcontinent can continue to glow in enlightenment free from the curse of racism.
 
Absolutely horrifying. Makes me quite angry that whole swathes of my ancestors converted to Islam ( or more probably were forced to abandon their original faith under the sword!) and thus are doomed to repeat this racism inherited from the Arabs forever, while the rest of the subcontinent can continue to glow in enlightenment free from the curse of racism.

The caste system of the Hindus is pretty rabid too, and I say that as someone who was born a Hindu. I am still a Hindu, though being a Hindu means one can choose whichever text they wish from a plethora of texts, or choose none at all. The Ramayana is very racist, but one can be a Hindu without paying attention to all of the Ramayana.

Humans have generally done poorly when the conquered have lived with the conquerors. At least if racist ideas do not have religious sanction, then there is still a small hope that humanity will prevail. Racism is selfishness, and there is a perpetual struggle between selfishness and humane ideals.
 
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If the founder of the religion bought and sold slaves, then human rights were at a discount. Historically Arabs have never viewed their southern black neighbors as equals. The non-Arabs like the Ottomans liked their black slaves who worked in their harems castrated.

Once a black converts to Islam, in theory he is equal. However, beyond theory is real life and you can learn about real life by the real behavior of real humans through the centuries.

Slavery was a part of society in his times and for centuries to come, but what he did was to free slaves at every little instance, and the prophet and his companions themselves freed slaves by the 100s. It's symbolic, but the first man to call to prayer in Islam was a freed Black slave, Bilal, and Bernard Lewis, who's not an Islamophile and one of the main references of neo-cons, penned a book on slavery in Islam, and said it wasn't racial (you had European, Persian, Indian, ... slaves). Now, the conditions of slaves in Islam were way better than in the Roman Empire, and Gustave Le Bon, one of the leading French intellectuals at the beginning of the last century, said it was better to be slave in Islam than a domestic servant in modern Europe. In the Islamic world slaves established dynasties from Egypt to India (Mamluks), which was inconceivable for American slaves, and that's why Bernard Lewis said we shouldn't have a trans-history reading of the word "slavery", as if from the ancient world up to the US experience with its overtly racial tones it was all the same movement. Blacks were made eunuchs because they guarded harems, not because of their race. In fact, to get back to Lewis, he tells how in the Arabian Peninsula the rich Arabs easily married Black slaves (while they could "use" them for sexual gratification, like modern day Europeans to in South-East Asia, not discarding poor children either, without the commitments of marital alliance), and that's the reason why modern day Saudis are so mixed.

Islam's finality is the liberation of man from all mentally enslaving ideologies and idols, which includes formal slavery and informal slavery (capitalism), but its aims are gradual, because they are pedagogic (humanizing the slave before the complete freedom) - Roman law or the Bible didn't have this vision, that is of humanizing the slave to bring him or her out of bondage.

Islam came and told the masters that they should be fair and good in their dealings with the slaves: "And be good to the parents and to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy neighbor of (your) kill and the alien neighbor and the companion in a journey and the wayfarer and those whom your right hand possesses; surely Allah does not love him who is proud, boastful" (iv: 36). It stressed the fact that the true relationship between the master and his slave was not one of slavery and over-lordship, nor of subjection or objection but that of kinship and brotherhood. Thus the masters were permitted to marry the slave-girls they had in their possession: "……Let them marry from the believing maids whom your right hands possess. Allah knoweth best (concerning) your faith. Ye (proceed) one from another.. so wed them by permission of their folk, and give unto them their portions in kindness" (iv: 25).

Thus the masters were described as brothers to their slaves: “Your slaves are your brothers... so he who has a brother under him should feed him and clothe him as he himself feeds and dresses; do not ask them to do things which are beyond their power and if you do ask them to do such things then help them".

With a mark of deference to the feelings of the slaves the Holy Prophet added: “None of you should say: this is my slave and this is my slave-girl: he should rather say: This is my man and this is my maiden". It was on this authority that Abu Huraira, on seeing a man riding a horse and his slave trudging along after him, said to the man: "Get him seated on the horse behind you, for, surely he is your brother, and his soul is similar to yours".

This was, however, not all that Islam did for the slaves, but before proceeding with our inquiry, we would first like to sum up the great advance that, thanks to Islam, came about in the position of the slave at this preliminary stage.

The slave was now no longer regarded just a commodity-a merchandize-but was looked Upon as a human being with a soul similar to that of his master, whereas in the past be was regarded as a being quite different from his master, and created to serve as a slave in every way fit to suffer humiliation, It was because of this notion that their conscience never twinged them when murdering, punishing, cauterizing, or making their slaves perform loathsome and burdensome jobs. Islam them from this state of abject slavery to the exalted status of brotherhood with free men. These achievements of Islam were not mere professions but a fact to which history bears witness. Even the prejudiced writers of Europe too admit that in the early period of Islam the slave was exalted to such a noble state of humanity as was never before witnessed in any other part of the world, They won so dignified a status within the Muslim community as made the freed slaves abhor betraying their erstwhile masters although now they stood in no need or fear of them and were now as free as they, The reason for this lay in the fact that they considered themselves to be members of the family of their previous masters and linked to them with ties akin to those of blood.

Also the slave now came to be regarded as a human being whose personal safety was guaranteed by law not permitting the commission of any transgression against him through word or act. As to the word, the Prophet forbade the Muslims to talk of their slaves as such and instead commanded them to address them in a manner that should make them think of themselves as members of their family, and blot out from their persons the stigma of slavery. With this in view he said: “Sure/y God has made you their masters: and if He had willed He could have likewise given you in their possession as slaves".

Muhammad Qutb, Islam: the misunderstood religion

In practice, the Blacks are treated as equals by all relatively God fearing Muslims. That's the reason Malcolm X accepted mainstream Islam. For centuries, Timbuktu and the Mali Empire were the intellectual and cultural centres of Islam - 10 000s of students flocked from all around the world, primarily the Arab world. If there was racial discrimination, no "honourable" Arab would have accepted to learn his religion under an "inferior" Black scholar.
 
The caste system of the Hindus is pretty rabid too, and I say that as someone who was born a Hindu. I am still a Hindu, though being a Hindu means one can choose whichever text they wish from a plethora of texts, or choose none at all. The Ramayana is very racist, but one can be a Hindu without paying attention to all of the Ramayana.

Humans have generally done poorly when the conquered have lived with the conquerors. At least if racist ideas do not have religious sanction, then there is still a small hope that humanity will prevail. Racism is selfishness, and there is a perpetual struggle between selfishness and humane ideals.
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] I feel Captian Sahib is being sarcastic in his outrage ..

Anyways, the caste system of India is both racist and not racist at the same time .

1. Racist because - Even if the Aryan Invasion Theory of the Europeans hasn't been proved , recent researches and findings point to multiple periods of migrations of people into the Indian subcontinent at different time periods. Which more or less strengthen the nonoccurence of what we could call similar to "Aryan Migration".

The arrival of Aryans and the creation of the modern vedic religion (aka present day Hinduism) was done by the Brahmin communities , who began practicing endogamy to preserve their genetics from mixing with the other Indian groups (austroloid, ASI etc ), thus preserving features like their fair skin etc . This led to all the other communities following suit with endogamy and thus the once flexible caste system was solidified into the present form.

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/how-genetics-is-settling-the-aryan-migration-debate/article19090301.ece

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-opinion/the-problematics-of-genetics-and-the-aryan-issue/article19167508.ece

2. Not Racist because, the Indian races are far too mixed up over the years (racial mixing due to to and fro migrations) for any side to claim to be a "pure" race. Even the South Indians (who claim to be from the Dravidian races, still have a good presence of Indo-iranian genes, though at a level much less than the north west Indians. As a result we have fair looking Dalits in north western India, and dark looking brahmins in Southern India, and places like Kerala where the upper and lower castes have non differentiable skin tones in many cases.

So there is no clear cut racial differentiation like in the Middle east (arabs, blacks , eastern europeans) or Europe/America.(White/Black)
 
Islam's finality is the liberation of man from all mentally enslaving ideologies and idols.

Yes, "finality" is the fall back for all philosophies and religions (including communism). If it is not working, just say that the philosophy is perfect, the fault is in those who practice it. And "finally" a new day will dawn when the "perfect" philosophy will find the "perfect" followers.
 
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION] I feel Captian Sahib is being sarcastic in his outrage

If you read my post carefully you will see I am agnostic about whether he is being sarcastic.
 
If there was racial discrimination, no "honourable" Arab would have accepted to learn his religion under an "inferior" Black scholar.

So either everybody in a population is racist, or no one is? You need to get more familiar with the real world.
 
So either everybody in a population is racist, or no one is? You need to get more familiar with the real world.

Ther are just as many racist muslims as Christians, athiests or hindus just like there are the same that deny it.
 
Arab's consider themselves better then other brown people. Discrimination in Pakistan is based more on class then race. A man in Pak is ridiculed for being poor more then any other reason. Arab arrogance is biting them back so hard, just look at the state of the Gulf region.
 
I have had no problems living in the Gulf for more than 20 years of my life.

The Arabs I have come across as no worse or better than many of the Pakistanis and Indians who I have met and worked with.

I think there is a lot of jealousy and envy which exists about their money but that's all there is to it

There are criminals in all parts of the world as are inconsiderate people.

No difference.
 
I've never had any issues when in the Gulf. Once I broke down off road and the only people who stopped to help were Arabs.

I
 
Is it hard for you guys to stay on subject? Or do you guys really have to take every thread on another tangent?

All I wanted to know was people's personal experiences with racism in the gulf countries or even with Arabs here in the west. I expect everybody to stay on subject.

Thank you!
 
I have lived in KSA for 2 years.

I could write a page on racism against South Asians, especially Pakistanis, Indians and Bangladeshis. I also suspect the usual Arab defenders will be all over this thread, good luck!

Could you share your personal experiences, all I hear about is people talking about the racism but never elaborating on it or sharing their stories.
 
I've never had any issues when in the Gulf. Once I broke down off road and the only people who stopped to help were Arabs.

I

Bahraini Arabs are sound as are Syrian. Beyond Europe and the Anglo-sphere there isn't really any serious attitude to racism because put simply the World Wars fought against Nazi Germany left a big impression
 
Racism is inhert in Islam.
Khilafatt went to Quesh.
Look at the names of Muslim empires:
- Ummayah
- Abbasids
- Ottomans

Even in Pakistan, syed people think themselves special and many uneducated people respect them.
 
My father and many other relatives have worked in Kuwait for almost 2 decades. They haven't had any truly bad experiences by virtue of them working in the oil refinery sector and nursing sectors, so their interaction is limited to mostly educated Arab colleagues, who are pretty chill with Indians and appreciate our contribution (especially Keralites) to their nations.

But we've heard of 3'rd person accounts of low skilled/unskilled labourers and household help (Khaddamas), who are treated as practically slaves and routinely abused. There are small cases of abuse/discrimination by richer arab youngsters as well.

So I feel its not just the race issue, but the class / money factor is involved. And richer arab nationals surely have an "entitlement" factor that makes them behave so . Education seems to get rid of most of the prejudices too it seems.
 
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Oh boy, where to begin. Opening post makes it seem like he's never lived in the Middle East, so understandable question, I guess.

For the record, I used to live in Qatar for about 7 years, so I think I have a pretty good grasp on this subject. Biggest thing I noticed was, that if you weren't Qatari, you were lesser, even if you were an arab from outside the gulf like a Jordanian or Tunisian. And you were bottom of the food chain if South Asian. Pakistani, Nepail, India, Bengali, doesn't matter, to them it's all the same.

Now, everyone knows workers from the subcontinent are taken there by the dozen, but man the harassment they get is insane. I won't post stats or anything, you can look them up yourself, and since OP wants personal experience I'll give you one.

Went to a Baskin Robbins late night on a Friday, ahead of me there was a Qatari guy, had the thobe on and the gutrah (headgear) with an overpowering smell of ittar coming from him. He was getting a massive tub of ice cream, all sorts of flavors, and the guy working at the counter was Indian, and didn't hear what the arab dude said properly or something so asked him to repeat the order, and the Qatari dude got ticked off. Started sneering at him "Are you stupid? do you speak english? You seem like a big stupid to me".

Every few months or sometimes weeks you would see a news story where some maid was pictured with a black eye or scars because her "owners" beat her up for something minor. Again, usually Indian, Filipino or Indonesian.

Even in school there, you had to toughen up and stand up for yourself. It was international school, but still a lot of Qataris there, and any new kid who was a foreigner be it white, black, brown or asian would be subjected to racism by the Qatar kids and teachers would be afraid of taking action since their parents were rich and could get them kicked out.

For e.g. was sitting at an informational in the auditorium with one of our IT teachers in front, he was American. End of the show, everyone is clapping, and one of my classmates dads also in full qatari national dress, wild eyed, comes up to my professor waving his finger "Don't you ever talk to my son like that again!". Bechara teacher could only eek out a sorry. Now the thing is, I knew this guy's kid, he was pretty spoiled, being loud and obnoxious in class, the usual. And the teacher rightfully put him in place. Unfortunately, his dad was mad rich.

The biggest however, was one of my substitute teachers getting deported after being thrown in jail after he was being racially abused by some snot nosed arab kids and retaliated with a comment of his own.

There's even more. But that should be enough for now.
 
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Racism is everywhere, cant just generalize that one place is more racist than the other. Remember the time when i came to Lahore and used to be taunted for being a Karachite.
 
This is a very timely thread.

So I had a 16 hour layover in Doha just last week and that was enough for me to realise that I never want to live in the Middle East as a second-class citizen despite the luxury, the skyscrapers and all the money on offer. Firstly, the people who are toiling hard and keeping that piece of crap country running (the taxi drivers, the restaurant servers, the airport staff, the shopkeepers) are some of the nicest people I have met. Among them were Sri Lankan Tamil, Keralan Muslim, Indian Tamil Muslim, Bangladeshi, Filipino and Black Africans. I was in the Middle East for the first time and that too all alone without a SIM card or anyone to contact during Ramadan with everything closed and these people could not have been more helpful.

However, you get to the airport and in the same city you will meet some of the rudest people you have ever met in your life. The Arab lady in immigration did not say one word to me and just left my passport on the desk after she was done and looked away, I kept waiting for her to confirm that she was done with all the necessary procedures and she shouted "Just Go!". Luckily, I managed to keep my cool but had a few choice words for her too as I was walking away.

But even more infuriating were the Arab security guards. None of them can speak a sentence of English and were shouting, gesturing and even manhandled a group of tourists from Singapore. I just wish they had tried that with me.

I can't wait for the downfall of this region as the world shuns oil in favour of renewable energy. No wonder the entire place is such a hellhole.
 
I've lived in Sharjah, UAE, for a number of years, my father grew up there and I haven't faced any sort of racism or discrimination from the locals there. The odd, spoilt kid here and there couldbe nasty but you can say that about Pakistani kids as well, with their treatment of the "malabaris" and "pilipinos".

I'm not saying that racism isn't an issue in these Arab countries, it is, but it's not as rampant as some make it out to be. Or that was the case as long as I was there.

Let's start with the fact that you can't marry a Saudi Arabian

You can definitely marry a Saudi Arabian, if you are a Muslim.

If the founder of the religion bought and sold slaves, then human rights were at a discount. Historically Arabs have never viewed their southern black neighbors as equals. The non-Arabs like the Ottomans liked their black slaves who worked in their harems castrated.

Once a black converts to Islam, in theory he is equal. However, beyond theory is real life and you can learn about real life by the real behavior of real humans through the centuries.

Yes, real behavior like Hadhrat Bilal (May Allah be pleased with him), a black, Abyssinian slave who was freed from slavery by the first caliph of Islam, Abu Baqar. His master (who was later ended by Bilal himself) insulted Bilal's value saying that he would have sold him for a price much lower than what Abu Baqr paid for him. To this, the future caliph replied that he would have paid much, much more for Bilal.

Bilal later went on to be the first muezzin of Islam. Not an Arab, but an Abyssinian. Today, Muslims all over the world name their children after this great companion of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH). Do find me a similar incident from anywhere else in the world. This is your real-life incident. There are many such incidents and of course, the position that Islam takes on slaves is not hidden from anyone.

Yes, "finality" is the fall back for all philosophies and religions (including communism). If it is not working, just say that the philosophy is perfect, the fault is in those who practice it. And "finally" a new day will dawn when the "perfect" philosophy will find the "perfect" followers.

Except that Islam has been working ever since its inception (whether you take that to be from the dawn of mankind or from 1450~ years ago, the point stands). Glorious, fair empires have been established, advancements have been made and today nearly 2 billion Muslims walk the earth; from every race, country and language. Malcolm X, read about him.
 
Arabs in Canada, however, are absolutely lovely. I feel the language barrier, socio-economic differences and cultural baggage is the biggest reason for the racism that is present in Arab countries.

However, why single them out? How well are Bangladeshis and Afghanis treated in Pakistan, not to mention Somalis? The less said about India, the better.
 
I have only been to two Muslim countries outside of Pakistan, the only one in the Gulf was Dubai. I generally got treated very hospitably there, but then I don't look that much different to the locals so maybe that was why. The Arabs do carry themselves with a certain amount of swagger, but then so do I so maybe that threw them off. Reading all these horror stories I do wonder how I would have been treated if I was of say, south Indian or Tamil appearance.
 
Except that Islam has been working ever since its inception (whether you take that to be from the dawn of mankind or from 1450~ years ago, the point stands). Glorious, fair empires have been established, advancements have been made and today nearly 2 billion Muslims walk the earth; from every race, country and language. Malcolm X, read about him.

Give me one example of a Islamic country that has:

1) lived in peace with no war for 50 years or more in the 1,300 years of Islam. If you read the history of the Islamic kingdoms, all they seem to be doing is when they are not killing their cousins they are killing their brothers, fathers or sons to get the thrones.

OR

2) had democracy continuously without Army rule for 50 years or more

OR

3) today has an industry with a market capitalization of $100 billion that is not based on extracting resources.

No point in living in a make believe world if you want progress.
 
Arabs in Canada, however, are absolutely lovely. I feel the language barrier, socio-economic differences and cultural baggage is the biggest reason for the racism that is present in Arab countries.

However, why single them out? How well are Bangladeshis and Afghanis treated in Pakistan, not to mention Somalis? The less said about India, the better.

There are Bangladeshis in Pakistan?
 
There are Bangladeshis in Pakistan?

Quite a few actually. Hindi/Urdu speaking Muslims from Bihar who migrated to East Pakistan in 1947 and didn't integrate. In 1971 they supported Pakistan against the freedom fighters. After Bangladesh's independence many left for Pakistan and others tried to get back into India.
 
Give me one example of a Islamic country that has:

1) lived in peace with no war for 50 years or more in the 1,300 years of Islam. If you read the history of the Islamic kingdoms, all they seem to be doing is when they are not killing their cousins they are killing their brothers, fathers or sons to get the thrones.

OR

2) had democracy continuously without Army rule for 50 years or more

OR

3) today has an industry with a market capitalization of $100 billion that is not based on extracting resources.

No point in living in a make believe world if you want progress.

No war? Since when did that become a criteria for the greatness of an empire? Empires are built on conquest and war was more common than peace until a few decades ago. How many major countries/empires/dynasties have seen 50 years where there was no war?

Stop shifting the goalposts. You implied that Islam has never successfully been implemented and is still looking for a people where that implementation can successfully take place. Much of the Muslim world today is facing a myriad of socio-economic issues, not to mention the state of politics in some places and therefore will not be able to meet your criteria. Islam was, however, implemented quite successfully in several parts of the globe and thus, the problem is not with the ideology but the blame should rather be on other things.

Despite all that, some Arab countries could buy all of India, if they wanted to.
 
There are Bangladeshis in Pakistan?

Yes, I was quite surprised to find Bangladeshis and Somalis in Pakistan. Was saddened to see them being discriminated against. This is why I find it hard to take these sob-stories about racism in the Gulf states seriously, when some of these victims would have been the racists back in Pakistan and India. Not pointing fingers at anyone in this thread, rather I'm talking about some members of my extended family.
 
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No war? Since when did that become a criteria for the greatness of an empire? Empires are built on conquest and war was more common than peace until a few decades ago. How many major countries/empires/dynasties have seen 50 years where there was no war?

If one is to go by your logic justifying war, then there are no complaints about all the bombings and killings the US has carried out under Bush and Obama.

Points 2) and 3) were not "shifting the goal posts", they are just the major deficiencies of Islamic societies. If you want these deficiencies gone, then you have to deal with them rather than running away from them.
 
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If one is to go by your logic justifying war, then there are no complaints about all the bombings and killings the US has carried out under Bush and Obama.

Points 2) and 3) were not "shifting the goal posts", they are just the major deficiencies of Islamic societies. If you want these deficiencies gone, then you have to deal with them rather than running away from them.

Bombing a hospital is quite different to defeating an enemy on the battlefield. Not to mention the ever-evolving nature of human rights and the nature of warfare.

They were. Islamic societies have been economic powerhouses in the past and if you still want to make this a point of contention, then I will take the lazy route and point towards the Gulf states and their obscene amount of wealth. Democracy is just one way of effectively governing a country. There are other ways to do so and Islam societies have showed this in the past and will once again, display this in the future.
 
Bombing a hospital is quite different to defeating an enemy on the battlefield.

Collateral damage always happens in wars. Sometimes it is deliberate like Timur's slaughter of 100,000 Delhi captives.

Not to mention the ever-evolving nature of human rights and the nature of warfare.

Funny for you to say that, since you apparently base your philosophy on a 1,300 year old book.

They were. Islamic societies have been economic powerhouses in the past and if you still want to make this a point of contention, then I will take the lazy route and point towards the Gulf states and their obscene amount of wealth.

That is pathetic, these countries are pathetic. This has nothing to do with any accomplishment by them. Note my post had noted "not based on extracting resources".

Democracy is just one way of effectively governing a country. There are other ways to do so and Islam societies have showed this in the past and will once again, display this in the future.

Do give an example of your best Islamic society? As you place a lot of value on empires, I assume you will go with the Ottomans, arguably the greatest of all Islamic empires. How many fathers/sons/cousins were killed by each Ottoman Emperor? And what a pathetic weakling it turned into after the 1683 Battle of Vienna even tough is lingered on for more than 200 years after that.
 
Where to even begin...

I lived in Qatar between ages 5 and 15. With more than 100,000 Pakistanis living there, we constituted a good 20% or so of the population. We attended Pakistani schools, socialized mostly with fellow Pakistanis, and our lives were very Pakistan-centric, with annual visits back home and whatnot. In spite of this, encounters of an unpalatable nature were common.

We were refused medical care on more than one occasion. We would enter the doctor's office, and be shooed out immediately. We learnt over time to visit the Pakistani or Indian doctors, of which there were a couple in every local hospital, even when the receptionist told us to visit an Arab one. We weren't the only ones doing this, and the Pakistani or Indian doctors were used to it too. We would collect the slip of paper at the reception telling us to visit one doctor or the other, and ignore it altogether and go to the desi doctor instead. The waiting room would be full of Pakistanis and Indians, most of whom did not have appointments with that doctor.

In another thread, I've related how, on more than one occasion, we had to empty our shopping cart for a local, because said local had decided it was beneath their status to get a cart at the entrance of the supermarket.

At fast food restaurants, we could be in line, in front of a local, yet be made to wait while that local was served first. Playing outside, it was common for us to be bullied by the local kids. There was little our parents could do, apart from telling us to avoid those kids, which wasn't always possible. Being at the receiving end of bad behavior at the airports was common.

All this, in spite of the Qataris being far better behaved than the Saudis. Anyone who has lived in or visited Saudi Arabia would have far worse stories to relate.

Here in the US, it was quite a shock to be treated decently by the same Arabs who, if we were in their countries, wouldn't give us the light of day, or worse. Nevertheless, there are occasions here too when their prejudice shines through. In 2010, a few of us were conducting a fundraising effort for flood relief in Pakistan outside of a mosque. The Arabs ignored our little table altogether, and there were a few of them standing to one side mocking us in Arabic. I know enough of the language to know exactly what they were saying.

A couple of years back, I received a call from a recruiter, saying he found me on LinkedIn, and asking if I would be interested in a position in Riyadh. I was outraged, and asked him why on earth he thought I would be interested. He was taken aback, and mumbled something about how Pakistanis are usually very keen on such opportunities.

I gave him a piece of my mind, but it struck me that there are very many of my compatriots, even ones living in the US, who would seriously contemplate taking that position in Riyadh. I have a few in my family, who take offense at my condemnation of these Gulf Arabs. There was one cousin, US born and bred, whose husband and her both took teaching positions in Kuwait. They were deported within 24 hours of having verbally disciplining a Kuwaiti student. I'm still not sure if they've seen the light yet or not.
 
Where to even begin...

I lived in Qatar between ages 5 and 15. With more than 100,000 Pakistanis living there, we constituted a good 20% or so of the population. We attended Pakistani schools, socialized mostly with fellow Pakistanis, and our lives were very Pakistan-centric, with annual visits back home and whatnot. In spite of this, encounters of an unpalatable nature were common.

We were refused medical care on more than one occasion. We would enter the doctor's office, and be shooed out immediately. We learnt over time to visit the Pakistani or Indian doctors, of which there were a couple in every local hospital, even when the receptionist told us to visit an Arab one. We weren't the only ones doing this, and the Pakistani or Indian doctors were used to it too. We would collect the slip of paper at the reception telling us to visit one doctor or the other, and ignore it altogether and go to the desi doctor instead. The waiting room would be full of Pakistanis and Indians, most of whom did not have appointments with that doctor.

In another thread, I've related how, on more than one occasion, we had to empty our shopping cart for a local, because said local had decided it was beneath their status to get a cart at the entrance of the supermarket.

At fast food restaurants, we could be in line, in front of a local, yet be made to wait while that local was served first. Playing outside, it was common for us to be bullied by the local kids. There was little our parents could do, apart from telling us to avoid those kids, which wasn't always possible. Being at the receiving end of bad behavior at the airports was common.

All this, in spite of the Qataris being far better behaved than the Saudis. Anyone who has lived in or visited Saudi Arabia would have far worse stories to relate.

Here in the US, it was quite a shock to be treated decently by the same Arabs who, if we were in their countries, wouldn't give us the light of day, or worse. Nevertheless, there are occasions here too when their prejudice shines through. In 2010, a few of us were conducting a fundraising effort for flood relief in Pakistan outside of a mosque. The Arabs ignored our little table altogether, and there were a few of them standing to one side mocking us in Arabic. I know enough of the language to know exactly what they were saying.

A couple of years back, I received a call from a recruiter, saying he found me on LinkedIn, and asking if I would be interested in a position in Riyadh. I was outraged, and asked him why on earth he thought I would be interested. He was taken aback, and mumbled something about how Pakistanis are usually very keen on such opportunities.

I gave him a piece of my mind, but it struck me that there are very many of my compatriots, even ones living in the US, who would seriously contemplate taking that position in Riyadh. I have a few in my family, who take offense at my condemnation of these Gulf Arabs. There was one cousin, US born and bred, whose husband and her both took teaching positions in Kuwait. They were deported within 24 hours of having verbally disciplining a Kuwaiti student. I'm still not sure if they've seen the light yet or not.

A pretty grim reading, but thanks for sharing.

"We learnt over time to visit the Pakistani or Indian doctors". The rest of the world sees Indians and Pakistanis as the same, which is reason for us to stick together. Unfortunately the division created by religion is strong.
 
Where to even begin...

I lived in Qatar between ages 5 and 15. With more than 100,000 Pakistanis living there, we constituted a good 20% or so of the population. We attended Pakistani schools, socialized mostly with fellow Pakistanis, and our lives were very Pakistan-centric, with annual visits back home and whatnot. In spite of this, encounters of an unpalatable nature were common.

We were refused medical care on more than one occasion. We would enter the doctor's office, and be shooed out immediately. We learnt over time to visit the Pakistani or Indian doctors, of which there were a couple in every local hospital, even when the receptionist told us to visit an Arab one. We weren't the only ones doing this, and the Pakistani or Indian doctors were used to it too. We would collect the slip of paper at the reception telling us to visit one doctor or the other, and ignore it altogether and go to the desi doctor instead. The waiting room would be full of Pakistanis and Indians, most of whom did not have appointments with that doctor.

In another thread, I've related how, on more than one occasion, we had to empty our shopping cart for a local, because said local had decided it was beneath their status to get a cart at the entrance of the supermarket.

At fast food restaurants, we could be in line, in front of a local, yet be made to wait while that local was served first. Playing outside, it was common for us to be bullied by the local kids. There was little our parents could do, apart from telling us to avoid those kids, which wasn't always possible. Being at the receiving end of bad behavior at the airports was common.

All this, in spite of the Qataris being far better behaved than the Saudis. Anyone who has lived in or visited Saudi Arabia would have far worse stories to relate.

Here in the US, it was quite a shock to be treated decently by the same Arabs who, if we were in their countries, wouldn't give us the light of day, or worse. Nevertheless, there are occasions here too when their prejudice shines through. In 2010, a few of us were conducting a fundraising effort for flood relief in Pakistan outside of a mosque. The Arabs ignored our little table altogether, and there were a few of them standing to one side mocking us in Arabic. I know enough of the language to know exactly what they were saying.

A couple of years back, I received a call from a recruiter, saying he found me on LinkedIn, and asking if I would be interested in a position in Riyadh. I was outraged, and asked him why on earth he thought I would be interested. He was taken aback, and mumbled something about how Pakistanis are usually very keen on such opportunities.

I gave him a piece of my mind, but it struck me that there are very many of my compatriots, even ones living in the US, who would seriously contemplate taking that position in Riyadh. I have a few in my family, who take offense at my condemnation of these Gulf Arabs. There was one cousin, US born and bred, whose husband and her both took teaching positions in Kuwait. They were deported within 24 hours of having verbally disciplining a Kuwaiti student. I'm still not sure if they've seen the light yet or not.

Yep, this is what life in Qatar is like. Sad thing is you lived there years before me and nothing much changed.

Spot on about their "mended" behavior in the US.

I recall last year at a Jummah qudbah at the mosque, we had a substitute imam who was Pakistani so was speaking broken English and he probably miss-spoke, but it still didn't sound like anything offensive. He basically said something along the lines of "don't be selfish, think of others first". After the qudbah an arab man in his 60s came up to him in front of everyone and started yelling at him "How dare you call me selfish!!", "Do you think you know us!!", "You know nothing!!". Becharay imam saab was just nodding his head and taking it in, and then just let out a sorry on the mic. The other people sitting told the guy to cool it.

But as far as the arab youth goes in the US, yeah I'd say they have acclimated p well.

Unrelated, but there are videos on youtube you guys can see of immigrants being verbally abused and pushed around in Saudi Arabia.
 
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A pretty grim reading, but thanks for sharing.

"We learnt over time to visit the Pakistani or Indian doctors". The rest of the world sees Indians and Pakistanis as the same, which is reason for us to stick together. Unfortunately the division created by religion is strong.

Funny thing is that South Asians actually far outperform Arabs in all intellectual endeavors.

The Indo-Pak dynamic during my time in the Gulf is a topic in and of itself.

The Indians we encountered were far meeker than us. I'm not sure if it was the religious angle in that particular environment, Pakistanis being seen by the locals as lesser beings who were nevertheless Muslims, the Indians lesser beings who didn't even have the religion thing going for them, leading to the latter putting up with much more than we did, which was saying something.

I've even met Qatari businessmen who said they wouldn't hire Pakistanis because he could only push them so far before they flipped. The other South Asian nationalities were more... docile, or so he said.
 
Yep, this is what life in Qatar is like. Sad thing is you lived there years before me and nothing much changed.

Spot on about their "mended" behavior in the US.

I recall last year at a Jummah qudbah at the mosque, we had a substitute imam who was Pakistani so was speaking broken English and he probably miss-spoke, but it still didn't sound like anything offensive. He basically said something along the lines of "don't be selfish, think of others first". After the qudbah an arab man in his 60s came up to him in front of everyone and started yelling at him "How dare you call me selfish!!", "Do you think you know us!!", "You know nothing!!". Becharay imam saab was just nodding his head and taking it in, and then just let out a sorry on the mic. The other people sitting told the guy to cool it.

But as far as the arab youth goes in the US, yeah I'd say they have acclimated p well.

Unrelated, but there are videos on youtube you guys can see of immigrants being verbally abused and pushed around in Saudi Arabia.

There's one of a Bangladeshi guy being forced to kiss a Saudi's feet. It is outrageous that South Asian governments have made such a horrible mess of things in their own countries that their citizens have to put up with such humiliation just so they can keep making a living and supporting their families back home.
 
The Indo-Pak dynamic during my time in the Gulf is a topic in and of itself.

The Indians we encountered were far meeker than us. I'm not sure if it was the religious angle in that particular environment, Pakistanis being seen by the locals as lesser beings who were nevertheless Muslims, the Indians lesser beings who didn't even have the religion thing going for them, leading to the latter putting up with much more than we did, which was saying something.

I've even met Qatari businessmen who said they wouldn't hire Pakistanis because he could only push them so far before they flipped. The other South Asian nationalities were more... docile, or so he said.
[MENTION=136729]Suleiman[/MENTION] mentioned youtube clips for Saudi Arabia, so I had a look.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=saudi+arabia+migrant+worker+abuse

This stuff is even worse than what you described.

Only Indians I know who worked in the MidEast were a couple of doctors, and they didn't say much. I assume their experiences were not pleasant. The MidEast is far behind the West as a favored destination for work. With the oil price bust I doubt they can keep hiring people the way they used to. Thanks to the ingenuity of the American shale oil drillers, oil prices are never going back up again.
 
There's one of a Bangladeshi guy being forced to kiss a Saudi's feet. It is outrageous that South Asian governments have made such a horrible mess of things in their own countries that their citizens have to put up with such humiliation just so they can keep making a living and supporting their families back home.

This one is much worse than kissing feet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAN7LchZO4s
 
I would never want to live in a place like Saudi Arabia. Worst people on earth.

This !! SA probably the most messed up country in the World at the moment. I'd even put it below places like North Korea, but at least in North Korea they are collectively open about how they hate the world.

If you ever meet a Saudi, whom I have interacted with a lot in the far east since they send their children for studies etc etc you will find that if you even bring up such a discussion they will act as if you're telling them some unknown truth and be all surprised and claim how the 'Muslim Ummah' should not be divided over such issues etc etc...

Also along the same line they will most probably throw in Israel and sometimes even America and stir the conversation towards how the said latter countries are dividing us lol.....

They are the most delusional bunch out there who are as ignorant as they come and are only relevant because of the oil they have there - Remove that and we'd probably have a society who'll make DONALD TRUMP look like a progressive.

I'll just say a simple thing here.....'If more than a hundred thousand Paighambars over the course of humanity couldn't solve that region then I believe no one can.....'

It's a futile discussion !!
 
I have to say though, the experiences in my first post notwithstanding, it was a pleasant ten years for the most part, because being the children of an engineer father and a schoolteacher mother, we were shielded from such behavior on a daily basis. Engineers were paid well, a rung below just the doctors, received great housing etc. The ones who bore the true brunt of local cruelty were the laborers.

I happen to have seen what a labor camp is like. How I managed to catch a glimpse of it is a long story, but it is worth writing.

We lived in a great apartment, but not too far away was a walled compound, housing laborers. My father and I would attend Friday prayers at the mosque in the camp, because it was the closest one. The mosque would be packed to the gills with laborers, not because they were particularly religious, but because, and they told us this, it was the one place in the entire camp that was air conditioned. Those guys attended all five prayers without fail.

The night I got to see the rest of the camp, I was 10 years old. It was late 1990, the Gulf War raged, and it was whispered that the royal family had fled the country and were living in Switzerland, because none of them were seen on TV for months. Usually the news began with what His Highness the Emir had been up to during the day, followed by what His Highness the Heir Apparent did, and so on. Not so during that war.

We were leaving for the supermarket that night, and on the way we saw a laborer, an elderly Pashtun, trudging along the deserted road. We got to the supermarket, spent a good bit of time there, and we saw that laborer again. He carefully picked out one apple, one orange, and one banana, and then checked how much cash he had, to make sure he had enough. It was well-known that the laborers in the camp had not been paid for close to six months. These guys were in debt anyhow, having paid small fortunes to "agents" back home to get to work in the Gulf. Once they arrived, their passports were confiscated. So here he was, this laborer, in debt, not paid in six months, and without a passport to be able to call it quits, having to count his money to make sure he had enough for three pieces of fruit, which was probably to be his dinner.

My father offered him a ride back, because the camp was so close to our apartment. He hesitated, but acquiesced, probably because he didn't want to turn down his compatriots. When we stopped outside the camp, he said one word. "Fruit," he said, left the bag with the apple and the orange and the banana in the car, and practically fled into the camp. To this day, I marvel at the largess of the man. He didn't turn down the ride, but he felt he must repay us for the favor, and had decided to forego his dinner before he got in the car.

My father took me with him as we went into the camp to look for him. The residential quarters were past a compound, and we knocked on door after door before we finally located him. The laborers were packed like sardines, with barely enough room for any of them to lie on the floor without part of their bodies being on top of someone else. We opened one door, which turned out to be a miserable little toilet, and there were two guys resting on the floor. Their faces were despondent, their eyes were dead, their bodies limp with crippling tiredness.

We did eventually find that elderly Pashtun laborer. He said he would never forget our kindness (the fact that it was a mere car ride didn't matter), and that the fruit was the humble thanks, in his words, from "one Pakistani brother to another." We did prevail on him to take the fruit back, but not without having to cajole him for several minutes.

Its been twenty-seven years, but I find myself thinking about this experience to this day. It taught me that such magnanimity and graciousness in times of acute personal distress are commodities that you will find in spades in our country, and that these traits cannot be bought with billions upon billions of the Gulf Arabs' filthy petrodollars. One look at how those laborers lived in the camps was proof of that.
 
I have to say though, the experiences in my first post notwithstanding, it was a pleasant ten years for the most part, because being the children of an engineer father and a schoolteacher mother, we were shielded from such behavior on a daily basis. Engineers were paid well, a rung below just the doctors, received great housing etc. The ones who bore the true brunt of local cruelty were the laborers.

I happen to have seen what a labor camp is like. How I managed to catch a glimpse of it is a long story, but it is worth writing.

We lived in a great apartment, but not too far away was a walled compound, housing laborers. My father and I would attend Friday prayers at the mosque in the camp, because it was the closest one. The mosque would be packed to the gills with laborers, not because they were particularly religious, but because, and they told us this, it was the one place in the entire camp that was air conditioned. Those guys attended all five prayers without fail.

The night I got to see the rest of the camp, I was 10 years old. It was late 1990, the Gulf War raged, and it was whispered that the royal family had fled the country and were living in Switzerland, because none of them were seen on TV for months. Usually the news began with what His Highness the Emir had been up to during the day, followed by what His Highness the Heir Apparent did, and so on. Not so during that war.

We were leaving for the supermarket that night, and on the way we saw a laborer, an elderly Pashtun, trudging along the deserted road. We got to the supermarket, spent a good bit of time there, and we saw that laborer again. He carefully picked out one apple, one orange, and one banana, and then checked how much cash he had, to make sure he had enough. It was well-known that the laborers in the camp had not been paid for close to six months. These guys were in debt anyhow, having paid small fortunes to "agents" back home to get to work in the Gulf. Once they arrived, their passports were confiscated. So here he was, this laborer, in debt, not paid in six months, and without a passport to be able to call it quits, having to count his money to make sure he had enough for three pieces of fruit, which was probably to be his dinner.

My father offered him a ride back, because the camp was so close to our apartment. He hesitated, but acquiesced, probably because he didn't want to turn down his compatriots. When we stopped outside the camp, he said one word. "Fruit," he said, left the bag with the apple and the orange and the banana in the car, and practically fled into the camp. To this day, I marvel at the largess of the man. He didn't turn down the ride, but he felt he must repay us for the favor, and had decided to forego his dinner before he got in the car.

My father took me with him as we went into the camp to look for him. The residential quarters were past a compound, and we knocked on door after door before we finally located him. The laborers were packed like sardines, with barely enough room for any of them to lie on the floor without part of their bodies being on top of someone else. We opened one door, which turned out to be a miserable little toilet, and there were two guys resting on the floor. Their faces were despondent, their eyes were dead, their bodies limp with crippling tiredness.

We did eventually find that elderly Pashtun laborer. He said he would never forget our kindness (the fact that it was a mere car ride didn't matter), and that the fruit was the humble thanks, in his words, from "one Pakistani brother to another." We did prevail on him to take the fruit back, but not without having to cajole him for several minutes.

Its been twenty-seven years, but I find myself thinking about this experience to this day. It taught me that such magnanimity and graciousness in times of acute personal distress are commodities that you will find in spades in our country, and that these traits cannot be bought with billions upon billions of the Gulf Arabs' filthy petrodollars. One look at how those laborers lived in the camps was proof of that.

The humanity shown by your father gives me hope for mankind. People like him are the best people in this world. Also the character of the elderly Pashtun is praiseworthy.

And you write very well too, thanks again for sharing.
 
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Just out of curiosity. Is racism less of an issue in the UAE compared to other gulf countries?
 
I have to say though, the experiences in my first post notwithstanding, it was a pleasant ten years for the most part, because being the children of an engineer father and a schoolteacher mother, we were shielded from such behavior on a daily basis. Engineers were paid well, a rung below just the doctors, received great housing etc. The ones who bore the true brunt of local cruelty were the laborers.

I happen to have seen what a labor camp is like. How I managed to catch a glimpse of it is a long story, but it is worth writing.

We lived in a great apartment, but not too far away was a walled compound, housing laborers. My father and I would attend Friday prayers at the mosque in the camp, because it was the closest one. The mosque would be packed to the gills with laborers, not because they were particularly religious, but because, and they told us this, it was the one place in the entire camp that was air conditioned. Those guys attended all five prayers without fail.

The night I got to see the rest of the camp, I was 10 years old. It was late 1990, the Gulf War raged, and it was whispered that the royal family had fled the country and were living in Switzerland, because none of them were seen on TV for months. Usually the news began with what His Highness the Emir had been up to during the day, followed by what His Highness the Heir Apparent did, and so on. Not so during that war.

We were leaving for the supermarket that night, and on the way we saw a laborer, an elderly Pashtun, trudging along the deserted road. We got to the supermarket, spent a good bit of time there, and we saw that laborer again. He carefully picked out one apple, one orange, and one banana, and then checked how much cash he had, to make sure he had enough. It was well-known that the laborers in the camp had not been paid for close to six months. These guys were in debt anyhow, having paid small fortunes to "agents" back home to get to work in the Gulf. Once they arrived, their passports were confiscated. So here he was, this laborer, in debt, not paid in six months, and without a passport to be able to call it quits, having to count his money to make sure he had enough for three pieces of fruit, which was probably to be his dinner.

My father offered him a ride back, because the camp was so close to our apartment. He hesitated, but acquiesced, probably because he didn't want to turn down his compatriots. When we stopped outside the camp, he said one word. "Fruit," he said, left the bag with the apple and the orange and the banana in the car, and practically fled into the camp. To this day, I marvel at the largess of the man. He didn't turn down the ride, but he felt he must repay us for the favor, and had decided to forego his dinner before he got in the car.

My father took me with him as we went into the camp to look for him. The residential quarters were past a compound, and we knocked on door after door before we finally located him. The laborers were packed like sardines, with barely enough room for any of them to lie on the floor without part of their bodies being on top of someone else. We opened one door, which turned out to be a miserable little toilet, and there were two guys resting on the floor. Their faces were despondent, their eyes were dead, their bodies limp with crippling tiredness.

We did eventually find that elderly Pashtun laborer. He said he would never forget our kindness (the fact that it was a mere car ride didn't matter), and that the fruit was the humble thanks, in his words, from "one Pakistani brother to another." We did prevail on him to take the fruit back, but not without having to cajole him for several minutes.

Its been twenty-seven years, but I find myself thinking about this experience to this day. It taught me that such magnanimity and graciousness in times of acute personal distress are commodities that you will find in spades in our country, and that these traits cannot be bought with billions upon billions of the Gulf Arabs' filthy petrodollars. One look at how those laborers lived in the camps was proof of that.

Absolutely tragic. What makes it even more galling is what does it say about the conditions these people must live in back home that they feel it is necessary to work in such conditions abroad? You would never get someone from a western country doing it in a million years.
 
I have to say though, the experiences in my first post notwithstanding, it was a pleasant ten years for the most part, because being the children of an engineer father and a schoolteacher mother, we were shielded from such behavior on a daily basis. Engineers were paid well, a rung below just the doctors, received great housing etc. The ones who bore the true brunt of local cruelty were the laborers.

I happen to have seen what a labor camp is like. How I managed to catch a glimpse of it is a long story, but it is worth writing.

We lived in a great apartment, but not too far away was a walled compound, housing laborers. My father and I would attend Friday prayers at the mosque in the camp, because it was the closest one. The mosque would be packed to the gills with laborers, not because they were particularly religious, but because, and they told us this, it was the one place in the entire camp that was air conditioned. Those guys attended all five prayers without fail.

The night I got to see the rest of the camp, I was 10 years old. It was late 1990, the Gulf War raged, and it was whispered that the royal family had fled the country and were living in Switzerland, because none of them were seen on TV for months. Usually the news began with what His Highness the Emir had been up to during the day, followed by what His Highness the Heir Apparent did, and so on. Not so during that war.

We were leaving for the supermarket that night, and on the way we saw a laborer, an elderly Pashtun, trudging along the deserted road. We got to the supermarket, spent a good bit of time there, and we saw that laborer again. He carefully picked out one apple, one orange, and one banana, and then checked how much cash he had, to make sure he had enough. It was well-known that the laborers in the camp had not been paid for close to six months. These guys were in debt anyhow, having paid small fortunes to "agents" back home to get to work in the Gulf. Once they arrived, their passports were confiscated. So here he was, this laborer, in debt, not paid in six months, and without a passport to be able to call it quits, having to count his money to make sure he had enough for three pieces of fruit, which was probably to be his dinner.

My father offered him a ride back, because the camp was so close to our apartment. He hesitated, but acquiesced, probably because he didn't want to turn down his compatriots. When we stopped outside the camp, he said one word. "Fruit," he said, left the bag with the apple and the orange and the banana in the car, and practically fled into the camp. To this day, I marvel at the largess of the man. He didn't turn down the ride, but he felt he must repay us for the favor, and had decided to forego his dinner before he got in the car.

My father took me with him as we went into the camp to look for him. The residential quarters were past a compound, and we knocked on door after door before we finally located him. The laborers were packed like sardines, with barely enough room for any of them to lie on the floor without part of their bodies being on top of someone else. We opened one door, which turned out to be a miserable little toilet, and there were two guys resting on the floor. Their faces were despondent, their eyes were dead, their bodies limp with crippling tiredness.

We did eventually find that elderly Pashtun laborer. He said he would never forget our kindness (the fact that it was a mere car ride didn't matter), and that the fruit was the humble thanks, in his words, from "one Pakistani brother to another." We did prevail on him to take the fruit back, but not without having to cajole him for several minutes.

Its been twenty-seven years, but I find myself thinking about this experience to this day. It taught me that such magnanimity and graciousness in times of acute personal distress are commodities that you will find in spades in our country, and that these traits cannot be bought with billions upon billions of the Gulf Arabs' filthy petrodollars. One look at how those laborers lived in the camps was proof of that.

Thanks for sharing and tragic, I think I would be a bitter person if I had to see so many of such instances guess you do well in remaining sane.
 
I have to say though, the experiences in my first post notwithstanding, it was a pleasant ten years for the most part, because being the children of an engineer father and a schoolteacher mother, we were shielded from such behavior on a daily basis. Engineers were paid well, a rung below just the doctors, received great housing etc. The ones who bore the true brunt of local cruelty were the laborers.

I happen to have seen what a labor camp is like. How I managed to catch a glimpse of it is a long story, but it is worth writing.

We lived in a great apartment, but not too far away was a walled compound, housing laborers. My father and I would attend Friday prayers at the mosque in the camp, because it was the closest one. The mosque would be packed to the gills with laborers, not because they were particularly religious, but because, and they told us this, it was the one place in the entire camp that was air conditioned. Those guys attended all five prayers without fail.

The night I got to see the rest of the camp, I was 10 years old. It was late 1990, the Gulf War raged, and it was whispered that the royal family had fled the country and were living in Switzerland, because none of them were seen on TV for months. Usually the news began with what His Highness the Emir had been up to during the day, followed by what His Highness the Heir Apparent did, and so on. Not so during that war.

We were leaving for the supermarket that night, and on the way we saw a laborer, an elderly Pashtun, trudging along the deserted road. We got to the supermarket, spent a good bit of time there, and we saw that laborer again. He carefully picked out one apple, one orange, and one banana, and then checked how much cash he had, to make sure he had enough. It was well-known that the laborers in the camp had not been paid for close to six months. These guys were in debt anyhow, having paid small fortunes to "agents" back home to get to work in the Gulf. Once they arrived, their passports were confiscated. So here he was, this laborer, in debt, not paid in six months, and without a passport to be able to call it quits, having to count his money to make sure he had enough for three pieces of fruit, which was probably to be his dinner.

My father offered him a ride back, because the camp was so close to our apartment. He hesitated, but acquiesced, probably because he didn't want to turn down his compatriots. When we stopped outside the camp, he said one word. "Fruit," he said, left the bag with the apple and the orange and the banana in the car, and practically fled into the camp. To this day, I marvel at the largess of the man. He didn't turn down the ride, but he felt he must repay us for the favor, and had decided to forego his dinner before he got in the car.

My father took me with him as we went into the camp to look for him. The residential quarters were past a compound, and we knocked on door after door before we finally located him. The laborers were packed like sardines, with barely enough room for any of them to lie on the floor without part of their bodies being on top of someone else. We opened one door, which turned out to be a miserable little toilet, and there were two guys resting on the floor. Their faces were despondent, their eyes were dead, their bodies limp with crippling tiredness.

We did eventually find that elderly Pashtun laborer. He said he would never forget our kindness (the fact that it was a mere car ride didn't matter), and that the fruit was the humble thanks, in his words, from "one Pakistani brother to another." We did prevail on him to take the fruit back, but not without having to cajole him for several minutes.

Its been twenty-seven years, but I find myself thinking about this experience to this day. It taught me that such magnanimity and graciousness in times of acute personal distress are commodities that you will find in spades in our country, and that these traits cannot be bought with billions upon billions of the Gulf Arabs' filthy petrodollars. One look at how those laborers lived in the camps was proof of that.

Extremely tragic story. Thanks for sharing
 
Racism exists in the Gulf, on a professional level. Doctors of different nationalities are paid differently eg a British doctor gets more than a Pakistani one.

Their court system always favours the local Arabs even if there is evidence that shows they are gulity. Also in term of law suits, the locals always win or get a slap on the wrist. Also if there is a car accident, it is always the forgeiners fault in majority of the cases.

But even if racism exists it doesnt harm most of the educated people.

However certain Arabs are very cruel and treat their domestic forgein employees worse than animals. Many stories crop up where employees are caused severe mental and physical trauma. Local authorities and forgein embassies do not do anything to help the people affected.
 
I have to say though, the experiences in my first post notwithstanding, it was a pleasant ten years for the most part, because being the children of an engineer father and a schoolteacher mother, we were shielded from such behavior on a daily basis. Engineers were paid well, a rung below just the doctors, received great housing etc. The ones who bore the true brunt of local cruelty were the laborers.

I happen to have seen what a labor camp is like. How I managed to catch a glimpse of it is a long story, but it is worth writing.

We lived in a great apartment, but not too far away was a walled compound, housing laborers. My father and I would attend Friday prayers at the mosque in the camp, because it was the closest one. The mosque would be packed to the gills with laborers, not because they were particularly religious, but because, and they told us this, it was the one place in the entire camp that was air conditioned. Those guys attended all five prayers without fail.

The night I got to see the rest of the camp, I was 10 years old. It was late 1990, the Gulf War raged, and it was whispered that the royal family had fled the country and were living in Switzerland, because none of them were seen on TV for months. Usually the news began with what His Highness the Emir had been up to during the day, followed by what His Highness the Heir Apparent did, and so on. Not so during that war.

We were leaving for the supermarket that night, and on the way we saw a laborer, an elderly Pashtun, trudging along the deserted road. We got to the supermarket, spent a good bit of time there, and we saw that laborer again. He carefully picked out one apple, one orange, and one banana, and then checked how much cash he had, to make sure he had enough. It was well-known that the laborers in the camp had not been paid for close to six months. These guys were in debt anyhow, having paid small fortunes to "agents" back home to get to work in the Gulf. Once they arrived, their passports were confiscated. So here he was, this laborer, in debt, not paid in six months, and without a passport to be able to call it quits, having to count his money to make sure he had enough for three pieces of fruit, which was probably to be his dinner.

My father offered him a ride back, because the camp was so close to our apartment. He hesitated, but acquiesced, probably because he didn't want to turn down his compatriots. When we stopped outside the camp, he said one word. "Fruit," he said, left the bag with the apple and the orange and the banana in the car, and practically fled into the camp. To this day, I marvel at the largess of the man. He didn't turn down the ride, but he felt he must repay us for the favor, and had decided to forego his dinner before he got in the car.

My father took me with him as we went into the camp to look for him. The residential quarters were past a compound, and we knocked on door after door before we finally located him. The laborers were packed like sardines, with barely enough room for any of them to lie on the floor without part of their bodies being on top of someone else. We opened one door, which turned out to be a miserable little toilet, and there were two guys resting on the floor. Their faces were despondent, their eyes were dead, their bodies limp with crippling tiredness.

We did eventually find that elderly Pashtun laborer. He said he would never forget our kindness (the fact that it was a mere car ride didn't matter), and that the fruit was the humble thanks, in his words, from "one Pakistani brother to another." We did prevail on him to take the fruit back, but not without having to cajole him for several minutes.

Its been twenty-seven years, but I find myself thinking about this experience to this day. It taught me that such magnanimity and graciousness in times of acute personal distress are commodities that you will find in spades in our country, and that these traits cannot be bought with billions upon billions of the Gulf Arabs' filthy petrodollars. One look at how those laborers lived in the camps was proof of that.

[MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] Very emotional read !

I've heard of so many such accounts from my father and realtives based in Kuwait . Regarding the hardships in the labour camps . My community (malayali/malabari) contribute a very high proportion of the low skilled Indian migrants in the Middle east . We even have specific news segments dedicated to the hardships faced by the migrants and frequent fundraisers to help people return after being trapped there for years.

These people pay an arm and a leg to the visa agent to get their ride to the middle east. Many who are from rural backgrounds were their first pair of shoes and pants/trousers for this journey, which in many cases is provided by the Agent himself. There have been many cases of people sentenced to death because the Agent would have snucked in drugs along with the migrants baggage or inside his shoes.

The worst of fates is reserved for the women though, who are basically sold as "household helps" to rich arab families. The passports and all documents of most such women are either confiscated by the agency or the Arab family on arrival, and they slog it out in their homes under inhumane masters (both arab men and women) who abuse, starve and regularly thrash them, often with little pay at the end. This for me is the indicator of how entitled many of these arabs get beacuse of the easy oil money !



http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/slaves-of-gulf-women-lured-with-high-paying-job-offers-trapped-by-traffickers/story-4ZbfhuAZrVyQEjkTurSYwL.html

Again this is only one side of the story, my father being an engineer working in one of the best govt run refineries there, has rarely faced any kind of abuse from his colleagues. I guess the Skilled/educated Desis have it pretty easy there atleast in the professional sphere. Again, out there in public its still risky. Especially during the Ramzan months, i've heard about mobs of stick wielding Kuwaitis going around beating up any desis seen outside during fasting times or even seen consuming water/food.

The casual racism stuff happens a lot though, one of the funniest incidents my dad recollects is when a Kuwaiti colleague(educated , engineer) of his asked : "When we watch your movies , they are full of fair skinned and pretty people, what happens to them ? All the ones that we see here are the dark ones ..!" :)))

But this is more of a reflection of the colour bias of our films, and the fact that most ME migrants are either South Indian or Bihari/UP.
 
Racism exists in the Gulf, on a professional level. Doctors of different nationalities are paid differently eg a British doctor gets more than a Pakistani one.

That's because unlike the Indians or Pakistanis, the salaries of professionals from USA/UK or other EU nations are fixed/regulated by their respective embassies in the Gulf nations, so they are guaranteed a good minimum salary irrespective of the firms they work for. I often hear my relatives say ,"to understand the power of the USA you need to see what a US passport gets you in the gulf ! "

But we have to be grateful for such a system too, it because of this system that Arabs can't afford to staff their companies with all whites, and are forced to hire desi professionals in such large numbers .
 
That's because unlike the Indians or Pakistanis, the salaries of professionals from USA/UK or other EU nations are fixed/regulated by their respective embassies in the Gulf nations, so they are guaranteed a good minimum salary irrespective of the firms they work for. I often hear my relatives say ,"to understand the power of the USA you need to see what a US passport gets you in the gulf ! "

But we have to be grateful for such a system too, it because of this system that Arabs can't afford to staff their companies with all whites, and are forced to hire desi professionals in such large numbers .

Also as I mentioned earlier, western people have higher standards than Indians or Pakistanis due to the centuries of development and relative wealth. Why would they go to work in the Gulf otherwise? The nations in the east have huge populations which are obviously driven to working in the gulf due to the poverty and lack of care at home.

This is why those same nations rarely take responsibility for the maltreatment of citizens who work in the Gulf. It's not their problem, they can barely look after the starving masses on their own turf never mind those who choose to work abroad.
 
I have lived in KSA for 2 years.

-We were called ''Hindi'', absolutely bizarre seeing as I was neither Indian nor Hindu. ''You're all the same to us'' was a common retort
-My father would get paid absolute peanuts despite his education as compared to say someone who was white
-The disgusting ''shooing'' attitude displayed against Pakistanis and South Asians at airports, unless you had a Western passport ofcourse
-I have lived a lot of my life in the West/Pakistan both, we had a mosque I remember with Arabs and Pakistanis together. The hissy fitting the Arabs threw just because the Imam was an Indian, despite him being very fluent in Arabic, despite him being a Hafiz. You get my drift.
-A taxi driver, a Pakhtun, we knew really well would tell us regularly of the physical and verbal abuse they'd get from Arabs every other day. He even had all his savings taken from his employer, money he had saved for 10 years but he had no recourse to any justice because his employer held his passport.

Its not that racism doesn't exist anywhere its the fact that:

-Anywhere else in the West if I get spat on I can go to the police and expect some justice. As an immigrant my passport won't be taken off me and nor would I be blackmailed if they kept it. That is what makes this bigotry so dangerous in the Arab states. They are not accountable and if you're poor its modern day slavery with their kafeel system.
-Google the videos, from maids being slapped around, thrown off buildings, men being made to kiss feet or being punched around, maids being chained...its all on YouTube and tip of the iceberg.

There are no degenerate and filthy societies than some of the Arab states.

I could go on and on but tbh [MENTION=22846]Nostalgic[/MENTION] is saying it all.
 
[MENTION=136729]Suleiman[/MENTION] mentioned youtube clips for Saudi Arabia, so I had a look.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=saudi+arabia+migrant+worker+abuse

This stuff is even worse than what you described.

Only Indians I know who worked in the MidEast were a couple of doctors, and they didn't say much. I assume their experiences were not pleasant. The MidEast is far behind the West as a favored destination for work. With the oil price bust I doubt they can keep hiring people the way they used to. Thanks to the ingenuity of the American shale oil drillers, oil prices are never going back up again.

Doctors are usually well respected, it is the manual labourers both male and female that go through unmentionable humiliations.
 
There's different kinds of racism:

1. Institutional
This is your classic racism based on skin color (think apartheid South Africa) where it is engraved in law. This kind of racism doesn't really exist anymore for the most part.
In its place is the kind of institutional racism you see in Gulf countries which is primarily based around nationalities which in some ways still is based on skin color (white nationalities at the top, south asians in the middle, africans at the bottom). Though it is more complex as you can have a educated people at the bottom move up somewhat (but never to the very top).

These rules are enshrined in law in the Gulf (and other countries) and hence institutional.

2. Social
This exists everywhere but the degree varies. In one place, it could be simple comment such as "Where are you from?" implying you are not from that country when you are. In other places, it's in your face such as "This is our country and you are a guest."

The laws are equal for everyone but social environment causes people to behave and act in a discriminatory manner.
 
Racism exists in Canada too. Only difference is it is all mostly behind closed doors, not in your face.
 
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