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Rahul Dravid or Javed Miandad?

I respect Dravid as he's the best batsman from India (yeah, SRT fans, attack me).

But both played in different eras and Miandad's era was extremely bowler-friendly, pitches also difficult to bat.

Miandad wins, if you ask any neutral.
 
Hawkeye said:
I respect Dravid as he's the best batsman from India (yeah, SRT fans, attack me).

But both played in different eras and Miandad's era was extremely bowler-friendly, pitches also difficult to bat.

Miandad wins, if you ask any neutral.
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:)))

I see what you did there...

Dravid India's best batsmen ... Dravid > Sachin....

Miandad Pakistan's best batsmen Miandad > Dravid

Miandad > Sachin...

As I said.. Miandad vs Viv or Miandad vs Bradman was the best comparison :D
 
Lol.... this is called at invitation to infinte loop.

I say DRAVID!!!

now carry on...
 
Dr_Bassim said:
:)))

I see what you did there...

Dravid India's best batsmen ... Dravid > Sachin....

Miandad Pakistan's best batsmen Miandad > Dravid

Miandad > Sachin...

As I said.. Miandad vs Viv or Miandad vs Bradman was the best comparison :D
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Dr saab, no fun without disturbing the honey bee hive! ;)
 
Straight_Drive said:
Dravid, Easily ....He has a better average than even sachin outside the subcontinent, Miandad on the other hand was a HTB never given lbw at home LOL
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So you use Sachin tendulkar (who Indian fans refuse to even criticise) as an example to try and show that Dravid was better :)))
 
Straight_Drive said:
But Australia had the best attack not south africa...anyways Dravid is still winning in this so I can't complain :baelish
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What is worse? Failing against the best attack or failing against an inferior attack?

Dravid will neither win nor lose, people will continue to be biased. Additionally, it's hard to compare players from different eras. You have to dig deeper than just stats alone.

Dravid vs Inzi/Yousuf in tests would be a better one, which Dravid wins.
 
Fastandfurious said:
What is worse? Failing against the best attack or failing against an inferior attack?

Dravid will neither win nor lose, people will continue to be biased. Additionally, it's hard to compare players from different eras. You have to dig deeper than just stats alone.

Dravid vs Inzi/Yousuf in tests would be a better one, which Dravid wins.
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If you succeed against the best then failing against weak doesn't hurt cause other batters will take care of it
If you are a big match player you need to do well against the best....although both Dravid and Miandad don't have gr8 records against the best but dravid is still ahead

Dravid has been a beast in England , NZ which are very tough places to bat especially for sub continent batsmen and in West Indies also he scored runs against Ambrose ,Walsh, Dillon, Bishop which was not an easy attack...so based on his away performance Dravid wins
 
Straight_Drive said:
Just like Pakistani fans refuse to criticize Imran Khan :tyrion
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There are many who criticise IK for his politics to even some for his cricketing status on his forum but same doesn't apply for Sachin Tendulkar in which case you'll be highlighted a hater and all other sorts by Indian posters, just for criticising his cricketing status.

That's why it's amusing that you use him as a example as having a lower average just to degrade Miandad and show Dravid is better because no Pakistani batsman can possibly be better than their Indian counterparts, can they?
 
Straight_Drive said:
If you succeed against the best then failing against weak doesn't hurt cause other batters will take care of it
If you are a big match player you need to do well against the best....although both Dravid and Miandad don't have gr8 records against the best but dravid is still ahead

Dravid has been a beast in England , NZ which are very tough places to bat especially for sub continent batsmen and in West Indies also he scored runs against Ambrose ,Walsh, Dillon, Bishop which was not an easy attack...so based on his away performance Dravid wins
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Actually, that is incorrect. More SC players have succeeded in Eng/NZ than in Aus/SA. I reckon, Miandad's record is not too shabby in NZ/Eng.

As for Dravid facing the Windies, he faced Ambrose/Walsh/Bishop at the end of their career in a 5 match series. WI won 1-0, with Dravid along with the rest of India's batsmen failing to chase down a target of 120 runs.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63747.html
 
hz said:
There are many who criticise IK for his politics to even some for his cricketing status on his forum but same doesn't apply for Sachin Tendulkar in which case you'll be highlighted a hater and all other sorts by Indian posters, just for criticising his cricketing status.

That's why it's amusing that you use him as a example as having a lower average just to degrade Miandad and show Dravid is better because no Pakistani batsman can possibly be better than their Indian counterparts, can they?
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You don't know anything about India and you are ranting here about sachin...there are many who criticize sachin ,it is funny that you bring up IK's politics into cricket thread, just so you know sachin was criticized for accepting a seat in Indian parliament and not attending....Don't show your ignorance.

Anyways there is very little (if any) to criticise about sachin's cricket, I don't need to use sachin to show Dravid is better than Miandad, I mentioned it because it is a very big achievement to out do sachin but you became insecure the moment you saw sachin's name in the comment ,just shows who is more obsessed with Sachin :baelish
Regarding the bolded part, look at the performance of asian batsmen outside subcontinent ...Indian counterparts are better
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Fastandfurious said:
Actually, that is incorrect. More SC players have succeeded in Eng/NZ than in Aus/SA. I reckon, Miandad's record is not too shabby in NZ/Eng.

As for Dravid facing the Windies, he faced Ambrose/Walsh/Bishop at the end of their career in a 5 match series. WI won 1-0, with Dravid along with the rest of India's batsmen failing to chase down a target of 120 runs.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63747.html
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Lol I knew you would bring up the end of career argument that is why I said not an easy attack...did not say it was the best but still good enough to save 120 target...and If you have seen Dravid's innings in England you wouldn't doubt his record there...he scored a match winning hundred in absolute hostile conditions...he didn't just do well, he beasted those conditions
 
Straight_Drive said:
Lol I knew you would bring up the end of career argument that is why I said not an easy attack...did not say it was the best but still good enough to save 120 target...and If you have seen Dravid's innings in England you wouldn't doubt his record there...he scored a match winning hundred in absolute hostile conditions...he didn't just do well, he beasted those conditions
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Ye of course man, I acknowledge Dravid's greatness in England.

I was just responding to the arguments you presented.
 
Buffet said:
Miandad played 12 tests before 1992 against SL. SL was minnow then and their bowling unit was pretty bad. Take a look at their top 5 wicket takers in the same period. Every single one of them was averaging the north of 35.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...al1=span;team=8;template=results;type=bowling

SL bowling was worse than Zim. Zim had at least Streak playing for them till 2005. So you have Miandad playing 15 games against SL and Zim. That's 12% of his total career. Dravid played 16 games against BD & Zim. That's less than 10% of his entire career.

Clearly, Miandad and Pakistan has as much chance against minnows as Dravid.
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Don't think SL bowling was worse than ZIM. SL had very respectable seam attack, all of them bit below Streak, but they had multiple bowlers who bowled at that intensity, where as ZIM attack was one man. Saliya Ahangama and vinothan John were good, but broken down due to injuries. But still aved should average more IMO. Probably he didn't give a **** about scoring as others were scoring in mountains.
 
Straight_Drive said:
You don't know anything about India and you are ranting here about sachin...there are many who criticize sachin ,it is funny that you bring up IK's politics into cricket thread, just so you know sachin was criticized for accepting a seat in Indian parliament and not attending....Don't show your ignorance.
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I'm not ranting about Sachin Tendulkar, just mentioned something about his fans not wanting any criticism and wasn't trying to bring IK politics into the discussion, I just said that he is often criticised when you said that Pakistanis refuse to criticise him...even said that his cricketing status is often criticised by Pakistani posters on this forum as well, which is rare amongst Indian posters at all but if you don't think that's a fair example then that's okay, I don't follow Indian politics so you're probably correct.

Straight_Drive said:
Anyways there is very little (if any) to criticise about sachin's cricket, I don't need to use sachin to show Dravid is better than Miandad, I mentioned it because it is a very big achievement to out do sachin but you became insecure the moment you saw sachin's name in the comment ,just shows who is more obsessed with Sachin
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I don't really post much in cricket section and neither debate on players comparison, but often in these debates criticising Sachin (who many would agree was a very good batsman) means your a hater or obsessed etc, yet supposed Pakistani cricket legends are criticised by posters quite often, so that's the difference. I don't mean to derail the thread but it was just a general point, but then again rather than admitting it, you usually get called more obsessed etc as per usual.

Straight_Drive said:
Regarding the bolded part, look at the performance of asian batsmen outside subcontinent ...Indian counterparts are better
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You're probably correct on this as well, but the only problem is when posters degrade Miandad just because of the comparison with one of India's best batsman by saying he was overrated, bias umpires etc.
 
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IcedEarth said:
Don't think SL bowling was worse than ZIM. SL had very respectable seam attack, all of them bit below Streak, but they had multiple bowlers who bowled at that intensity, where as ZIM attack was one man. Saliya Ahangama and vinothan John were good, but broken down due to injuries.
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You are right. SL at that time did have as good attack as Zim during streak. I will bracket both bowling units around the same level.
 
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Both A level players, a list which already contains around 20-30 other cricketers around the same level. The certain thing however is they are both not A+ :)
 
All you need to do is read Steve Waugh's autobiography of how the LBW rule was removed from the books when Miandad was batting in Pakistan for a long, long time.Waugh says Miandad knew it and openly mocked opposition bowlers not to bother appealing since it's his land, his rules. Don't believe me? Just go read Steve Waugh's autobiography.

It's laughable that a certain poster is accusing Sachin of receiving benefits from home umpires when he played in an era of neutral umpires (:)))). Pakistani umpires were the absolute worst of their time when it came to bias. And it's not us fans, but former cricketers claiming what I said. Miandad averaged bloody 60 at home, while even Mohindar Amarnath averaged much better than Miandad away from home. Doesn't that tell us something?

Lemme ask you something. Here's a list of 'ESPN Legends of Cricket' prepared by many former cricketers and pundits in 2001. Every one of Miandad's contemporary great batsman found a place, while he himself went missing. Ever wondered why?

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ends-of-Cricket-Top-25-Cricketers-Of-All-Time
 
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Hitman said:
All you need to do is read Steve Waugh's autobiography of how the LBW rule was removed from the books when Miandad was batting in Pakistan for a long, long time.Waugh says Miandad knew it and openly mocked opposition bowlers not to bother appealing since it's his land, his rules. Don't believe me? Just go read Steve Waugh's autobiography.
Click to expand...

I am going to order that book. I haven't read it. I find it surprising that Miandad will openly mock it though.
 
Hitman said:
All you need to do is read Steve Waugh's autobiography of how the LBW rule was removed from the books when Miandad was batting in Pakistan for a long, long time.Waugh says Miandad knew it and openly mocked opposition bowlers not to bother appealing since it's his land, his rules. Don't believe me? Just go read Steve Waugh's autobiography.

It's laughable that a certain poster is accusing Sachin of receiving benefits from home umpires when he played in an era of neutral umpires (:)))). Pakistani umpires were the absolute worst of their time when it came to bias. And it's not us fans, but former cricketers claiming what I said. Miandad averaged bloody 60 at home, while even Mohindar Amarnath averaged much better than Miandad away from home. Doesn't that tell us something?

Lemme ask you something. Here's a list of 'ESPN Legends of Cricket' prepared by many former cricketers and pundits in 2001. Every one of Miandad's contemporary great batsman found a place, while he himself went missing. Ever wondered why?

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ends-of-Cricket-Top-25-Cricketers-Of-All-Time
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Conspiracy :))
 
Why should anyone trust Steve Waugh? The guy claimed a catch which hit the ground, he was as dishonest as it gets
 
Buffet said:
I am going to order that book. I haven't read it. I find it surprising that Miandad will openly mock it though.
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Steve Waugh himself wrote it in his book. I've read it myself.
 
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hk031992 said:
Why should anyone trust Steve Waugh? The guy claimed a catch which hit the ground, he was as dishonest as it gets
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Yea, anyone who says a word about the saint Javed Miandad (one of the worst behaved players in history) automatically becomes a cheat and a liar, doesn't matter even if he is one of the greats of the game and one of the most respected players ever, never mind a former Aussie captain himself. Going by that we shouldn't believe anything that Imran Khan (confessed to ball tampering), Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis (both convicted of ball tampering) says either, right?

P.S. :))) @ someone becoming a cheat who claims a catch that marginally touches the ground, which the catcher himself might have no idea about. Something tons of cricketers have been guilty (innocently) though.
 
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Javed's average never dipped below 50 in his test career which emphasizes the consistency of this ATG. A world cup winner and a true champion.

Dravid is no doubt ATG but Miandad trumps him.
 
Hitman said:
All you need to do is read Steve Waugh's autobiography of how the LBW rule was removed from the books when Miandad was batting in Pakistan for a long, long time.Waugh says Miandad knew it and openly mocked opposition bowlers not to bother appealing since it's his land, his rules. Don't believe me? Just go read Steve Waugh's autobiography.
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You ignore all the good stuff that's said about Miandad from former players and highlight one example, but then what are you supposed to expect. It's funny how Indian posters seem to like degrading Pakistani players and then pretend to be unbiased.
 
Hitman said:
Viv, Chappell, Border, Sunny all of them found a spot. Even Steve Waugh found one. But not Miandad.
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So does that mean Miandad wasn't good enough or selectors were maybe a little biased? Surely, 15 judges don't represent the whole cricketing world.
 
hz said:
You ignore all the good stuff that's said about Miandad from former players and highlight one example, but then what are you supposed to expect. It's funny how Indian posters seem to like degrading Pakistani players and then pretend to be unbiased.
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When have I ignored all the good things about him? Have I said he was no-good? I'm particularly pointing out the fact that his batting average is hugely boosted with help from home umpires. That's one fact no one can deny. Forget fans, former players are a living testimony to it. That's my point. His fans boasting about his career average never dropping below 50 is a joke, that was gifted to him by home umpires.

He was a very good batsman, a very gutsy one. Someone you could count to perform when the chips were down. Easily the best batsman Pakistan has ever produced. Among the top 6 from the sub-continent.
 
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Fastandfurious said:
So does that mean Miandad wasn't good enough or selectors were maybe a little biased? Surely, 15 judges don't represent the whole cricketing world.
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So all those former players and pundits who made the list were apparently biased against Miandad for absolutely no reason whatsoever? Why were they not biased against the rest of his contemporary great batsmen? Each one of them found a place in the list. A person or two can be biased against a certain player, not all of them who made that list.
 
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Hawkeye said:
I respect Dravid as he's the best batsman from India (yeah, SRT fans, attack me).

But both played in different eras and Miandad's era was extremely bowler-friendly, pitches also difficult to bat.

Miandad wins, if you ask any neutral.
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So it looks like it implies that Imran was an overrated bowler since all he did was bowl in a bowler friendly era? His wickets were a result of pitches difficult to bat. Agree [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION]?
 
Hitman said:
So all those former players and pundits who made the list were apparently biased against Miandad for absolutely no reason whatsoever? Why were they not biased against the rest of his contemporary great batsmen? Each one of them found a place in the list. A person or two can be biased against a certain player, not all of them who made that list.
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I didn't claim, I asked. My second statement I do claim.
 
Hitman said:
All you need to do is read Steve Waugh's autobiography of how the LBW rule was removed from the books when Miandad was batting in Pakistan for a long, long time.Waugh says Miandad knew it and openly mocked opposition bowlers not to bother appealing since it's his land, his rules. Don't believe me? Just go read Steve Waugh's autobiography.

It's laughable that a certain poster is accusing Sachin of receiving benefits from home umpires when he played in an era of neutral umpires (:)))). Pakistani umpires were the absolute worst of their time when it came to bias. And it's not us fans, but former cricketers claiming what I said. Miandad averaged bloody 60 at home, while even Mohindar Amarnath averaged much better than Miandad away from home. Doesn't that tell us something?

Lemme ask you something. Here's a list of 'ESPN Legends of Cricket' prepared by many former cricketers and pundits in 2001. Every one of Miandad's contemporary great batsman found a place, while he himself went missing. Ever wondered why?

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ends-of-Cricket-Top-25-Cricketers-Of-All-Time
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so you believe waugh is right in his book if so then why you peoples dnt believe on shoaib statements about sachin in his book. Why did the whole country creates so much drama & hangama on those statements. Clearly double standards.
 
Yea, anyone who says a word about the saint Javed Miandad (one of the worst behaved players in history) automatically becomes a cheat and a liar,
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if Miandad is one of the worst behave player in the history then plz remember obnoxious weed, I know Miandad hurt india badly & butts are still flaming but it doesnt mean that you should insult him so plz keep your garbage with in yourself.

Do you remember mike denness incident where he caught your angel :srt involved in ball tempering. Yeah denness was liar there & world have to admit that if they want to play cricket in future :srini
 
junaid.ahmed said:
so you believe waugh is right in his book if so then why you peoples dnt believe on shoaib statements about sachin in his book. Why did the whole country creates so much drama & hangama on those statements. Clearly double standards.
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So now you're comparing the credentials of Stephen Rodger Waugh and Shoaib Akhtar? :))) :))) :))) :)))

Shoaib Akhtar and Mohammad Asif would have been an apt comparison. They both can lay their claims on being the most disgraceful cricketer in history.
 
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junaid.ahmed said:
if Miandad is one of the worst behave player in the history then plz remember obnoxious weed, I know Miandad hurt india badly & butts are still flaming but it doesnt mean that you should insult him so plz keep your garbage with in yourself.

Do you remember mike denness incident where he caught your angel :srt involved in ball tempering. Yeah denness was liar there & world have to admit that if they want to play cricket in future :srini
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Yes, Sachin was caught tampering with the ball, just like Akram, Waqar and Shoaib were caught too. I never denied it. What's there to deny? There video evidence to prove the guilt of all those four players. Sachin cheated, plain and simple. He should have been appropriately banned/fined which didn't happen, and that's sad.

You're arguing with me that Miandad wasn't one of the worst behaved player in history? Are you kidding me? :)) His conduct on the field his entire career was a disgrace (though he never cheated with the rules though), any sane human being who saw his career will testify to it. Where does Harbhajan come into the picture? He has always been rowdy and obnoxious, any Indian fan will testify to it. Same goes for Sreesanth.

Miandad hurt us and that's why we are bitter? Why exactly aren't we bitter on Imran Khan, Saeed Anwar or Saqlain Mushtaq in that case? Start debating and making points like a man, not like an emotional kid ....... "Bohoooooo, how dare you say something like that to one of our players ........"


P.S. Sachin is the reason why I am a cricket fan, but unlike you I'm not blind.
 
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Hitman said:
Yes, Sachin was caught tampering with the ball, just like Akram, Waqar and Shoaib were caught too. I never denied it. What's there to deny? There video evidence to prove the guilt of all those four players. Sachin cheated, plain and simple. He should have been appropriately banned/fined which didn't happen, and that's sad.

You're arguing with me that Miandad wasn't one of the worst behaved player in history? Are you kidding me? :)) His conduct on the field his entire career was a disgrace (though he never cheated with the rules though), any sane human being who saw his career will testify to it. Where does Harbhajan come into the picture? He has always been rowdy and obnoxious, any Indian fan will testify to it. Same goes for Sreesanth.

Miandad hurt us and that's why we are bitter? Why exactly aren't we bitter on Imran Khan, Saeed Anwar or Saqlain Mushtaq in that case? Start debating and making points like a man, not like an emotional kid ....... "Bohoooooo, how dare you say something like that to one of our players ........"


P.S. Sachin is the reason why I am a cricket fan, but unlike you I'm not blind.
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Do read Ian Chappel piace on Miandad to reliease what really miandad was we guys can sit here for days to debate but those who played with him know him better.
 
Hitman said:
So now you're comparing the credentials of Stephen Rodger Waugh and Shoaib Akhtar? :))) :))) :))) :)))

Shoaib Akhtar and Mohammad Asif would have been an apt comparison. They both can lay their claims on being the most disgraceful cricketer in history.
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Shoaib & Steve can never be compared bcz shoaib hit the god of thousand million while steve hit the one whom thousand million used to hate.
 
You're arguing with me that Miandad wasn't one of the worst behaved player in history? Are you kidding me? His conduct on the field his entire career was a disgrace (though he never cheated with the rules though), any sane human being who saw his career will testify to it. Where does Harbhajan come into the picture? He has always been rowdy and obnoxious, any Indian fan will testify to it. Same goes for Sreesanth.
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What a funny way to defend your player, you seems to be ok with tampering bcz sachin was involve but sledging cheeking humor comic though in limit or under rules is the worst thing

A person who involved in breaching the law is better than the one who didn't in his entire career. So from comment one can easily get that sachin was the well mannered cheater.
 
Miandad hurt us and that's why we are bitter? Why exactly aren't we bitter on Imran Khan, Saeed Anwar or Saqlain Mushtaq in that case? Start debating and making points like a man, not like an emotional kid ....... "Bohoooooo, how dare you say something like that to one of our players ........"


P.S. Sachin is the reason why I am a cricket fan, but unlike you I'm not blind.
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Indeed they all including zaheer & Fazal hurt india but Miandad was the one who hurt india by getting under their skins so the amount of hate from your side is very obvious.

He didnt hurt india only during his career but also after his career by marring his son..........!!!!!!

Its my advice for you to comment on the topic rather attacking personal like a bad tempered mother in law........
 
Bouncer said:
Why would we even try to compare Rahul who is one of the 3 greatest batsman ever produced by subcontinent to Javed who barely makes in top ten (#9 or 10) best batsman of subcontinent?
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IMO Javed is the best batsman from the Subcontinent.
 
junaid.ahmed said:
Shoaib & Steve can never be compared bcz shoaib hit the god of thousand million while steve hit the one whom thousand million used to hate.
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Certain million times? Care to post 3 instances where that he hit Sachin on his body? A bowling average of 34.50 at an SR of 61.9 against India, speaks volumes of how ordinary he was against us!! BTW, Sachin is no God, he's a mere mortal. Legendary cricketer, nothing more than that.

I too remember a certain legendary Ajit Agarkar once hit Inzamam on the helmet back in his day. What a great bowler he must be :)))


P.S. I'd like to apologize to Steve Waugh for humiliating him by mentioning (you know who) in the same sentence as him. My heartfelt apology to him.
 
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junaid.ahmed said:
Indeed they all including zaheer & Fazal hurt india but Miandad was the one who hurt india by getting under their skins so the amount of hate from your side is very obvious.

He didnt hurt india only during his career but also after his career by marring his son..........!!!!!!

Its my advice for you to comment on the topic rather attacking personal like a bad tempered mother in law........
Click to expand...

Like I said before, try debating like a grown man rather than like an emotional kid.
 
Strike Rate said:
Do read Ian Chappel piace on Miandad to reliease what really miandad was we guys can sit here for days to debate but those who played with him know him better.
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Never denied his quality as a batsman. BTW, would love to read that piece, I'm serious. Would appreciate if you could provide me the link. Thanks.
 
Strike Rate said:
Its posted on PP too with the title "That little devil from Karachi" link is www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?206177-That-little-devil-from-Karachi-IAN-CHAPPELL
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Thanks, man. Lemme read it.

P.S. Just finished reading it. Good piece.

"Over time I realised that not only was Javed an exceptional cricketer, he was also good company. A far cry from the aggranoying little devil I perceived him to be when we first encountered each other." .... this is something that Sunny Gavaskar and plenty of other former players have always, always maintained. Sunny even mentioned it a number of times while commentating. He was the single most annoying human being for the opposition on the ground. But plenty of people have said that he was an absolutely fanstastic company out of it.
 
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Hitman said:
Certain million times? Care to post 3 instances where that he hit Sachin on his body? A bowling average of 34.50 at an SR of 61.9 against India, speaks volumes of how ordinary he was against us!! BTW, Sachin is no God, he's a mere mortal. Legendary cricketer, nothing more than that.

I too remember a certain legendary Ajit Agarkar once hit Inzamam on the helmet back in his day. What a great bowler he must be :)))


P.S. I'd like to apologize to Steve Waugh for humiliating him by mentioning (you know who) in the same sentence as him. My heartfelt apology to him.
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read my post atleast 10 times or until you understand the central idea............

& oh if you are talking for the bowler who hitting the batsman on his body then let me figured out your greatest being hit by pakistani bowlers

sachin on face by waqar, indeed that was the bloody welcome of thousand million's god (have you remembered). But what the good batman that was.................

Your's one & only dada, the most bold the most courageous captain of your history was writhing like the fish out of water when he hit by Shoaib.........................oh stretcher came out to rescue him

your another great Mr. srikanth hit by wasim on his face (may be that was the slap on his face)

In 1987 the 3rd ODI between Pakistan and India in Hyderabad, Wasim Akram hit the Indian opener Kris Srikanth on the eyebrow with a vicious bouncer. Kris Srikanth had to retire hurt, and eventually had to be taken to the hospital for stitches. He did not participate in the rest of the series.

the list will continue to grow bigger but the time is little the words running short the tongues are dry............
 
Rahul Dravid or Javed Miandad ?

2 ATG batsmen for me.

Who would you say is the better batter?
[MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION]
 
I haven't seen entire career of Javed to make an apple to apple comparison here. It's much easier to make a call when I have seen entire career of both players. Sometime gap is enough to make a call even without seeing it. Both gun players with some flaws.

If I have to still make a call, I will take Dravid in test and Javed in ODI.
 
Never watched Javed, so can't say for sure. But statistically, Dravid seems quite a bit ahead, specially given his "away" stats.
 
Never watched Javed as I started following cricket since 1997 so this comparison is a bit difficult.
 
Going by stats and a few clips I have watched of both of them I would pick Javed in ODI and Dravid in test.
 
[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] is a big time Javed fan, so may be he can throw in some light as I believe most of the folks on this forum have never watched JM bat (except maybe in YouTube videos).
 
Firstly I will admit that I haven't seen Javed bat.

In terms of general consensus, very hard to seperate the two. Overall maybe Javed because he was a better ODI batsmen as well.

In tests only, Dravid by a nose.
 
Syed1 said:
Maindad also played in an era of home side umpires, uncovered pitches and ATG bowling attacks.
Click to expand...

Do you know who benefited from that? :))

Just read Steve Waugh's autobiography. He speaks about the reputation of Pak umpires, and specially their conduct while Miandad was at the crease. "Don't bother appealing. This is my land, my rules." Those were the word of Miandad to the Australian fielders.

Uncovered pitches during Miandad's time? Goodness!

ATG bowling attacks? We all know how much he averages against the West Indies.
 
Hitman said:
Do you know who benefited from that? :))

Just read Steve Waugh's autobiography. He speaks about the reputation of Pak umpires, and specially their conduct while Miandad was at the crease. "Don't bother appealing. This is my land, my rules." Those were the word of Miandad to the Australian fielders.

Uncovered pitches during Miandad's time? Goodness!

ATG bowling attacks? We all know how much he averages against the West Indies.
Click to expand...

His career started in 76', and the first time he was given LBW at home was in 85'.
 
Hitman said:
Dravid averages 53 odd away from Asia, Miandad averages 46 odd.
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Dravid averages 51 at home while Miandad averages 61. Home matches aren't any less important than away matches. In ODIs Miandad was better.
 
Darkrai said:
Dravid averages 51 at home while Miandad averages 61. Home matches aren't any less important than away matches. In ODIs Miandad was better.
Click to expand...

Those who saw cricket back then knows the exact reason for this. So does ex players like Steve Waugh.
 
Hitman said:
Those who saw cricket back then knows the exact reason for this. So does ex players like Steve Waugh.
Click to expand...

I'm just using the same criteria that is used for every other player. I'm sure, if that was the case, Pakistan wouldn't have been the only guilty ones. Plus i'm pretty sure ICC would have stepped in.
 
Darkrai said:
I'm just using the same criteria that is used for every other player. I'm sure, if that was the case, Pakistan wouldn't have been the only guilty ones. Plus i'm pretty sure ICC would have stepped in.
Click to expand...

He was out LBW for total 8 times at home (25 away ) and 5 of them came in last 5 years of his career, when spread of TV made it very difficult to not give plumb decisions. Also, even in these 8, most of these LBW's were given in relatively low-stake matches like 2 were given when ZIM toured Pakistan in early 90's. I recall reading one article in Cricket Samrat magazine (don't know how many of you even heard of this Hindi cricket magazine) around 89-90. Article was on Australia's tour to Pakistan. In that article author had openly mocked Australian players on their cricket knowledge (or lack of it) because on that tour they were appealing for LBW decisions against Miandad. His statement was that if Australians had done some homework then they would have known futility of their exercise (appealing for LBW against Miandad). I think by that time Miandad was given out LBW at home only 3-4 times and he had already played some 13- 14 years of international cricket.
 
Not to mention Shakoor Rana egging Maninder Singh after turning down a plumb LBW appeal against Miandad, "Chal, Chal ... bolwing kar. Yahan clean bowled hone par hi wicket milega".
 
Hitman said:
He was out LBW for total 8 times at home (25 away ) and 5 of them came in last 5 years of his career, when spread of TV made it very difficult to not give plumb decisions. Also, even in these 8, most of these LBW's were given in relatively low-stake matches like 2 were given when ZIM toured Pakistan in early 90's. I recall reading one article in Cricket Samrat magazine (don't know how many of you even heard of this Hindi cricket magazine) around 89-90. Article was on Australia's tour to Pakistan. In that article author had openly mocked Australian players on their cricket knowledge (or lack of it) because on that tour they were appealing for LBW decisions against Miandad. His statement was that if Australians had done some homework then they would have known futility of their exercise (appealing for LBW against Miandad). I think by that time Miandad was given out LBW at home only 3-4 times and he had already played some 13- 14 years of international cricket.
Click to expand...

Only Pakistani umpires were utilized in Pakistan? If no then it doesn't make sense why ICC umpires would do that.
 
Darkrai said:
Only Pakistani umpires were utilized in Pakistan? If no then it doesn't make sense why ICC umpires would do that.
Click to expand...

What do you think was the concept of home upires? Credit to Imran Khan for later pushing for neutral umpires. Biased umpiring existed everywhere back then but no where was it as atrocious and blatant as in Pakistan, and Imran desperately wanted to win a Test series in West Indies. Pakistan should have won the Test series in West Indies back in 88/89, but the West Indian home umpires made sure it didn't happen.
 
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Darkrai said:
Only Pakistani umpires were utilized in Pakistan? If no then it doesn't make sense why ICC umpires would do that.
Click to expand...

Pakistan was notorious for having biased home umpires, it's well documented. And no, it's not Indian conspiracy.
 
Hitman said:
What do you think was the concept of home upires? Credit to Imran Khan for later pushing for neutral umpires. Biased umpiring existed everywhere back then but no where was it as atrocious and blatant as in Pakistan, and Imran desperately wanted to win a Test series in West Indies.
Click to expand...

Ok. I didn't know about the home umpires concept. I only recently started following cricket. Well like you said biased umpiring existed everywhere, even if it may not have been as extreme, Miandad wasn't the only one getting favorable decisions.

Miandad still averages 46 away so clearly he was still a great batsman overseas as well. Since biased umpiring was a thing, his away averages would also be effected by that.
 
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