Rahul Dravid beats Sachin Tendulkar in Wisden India's poll

[DeadlyVenom]

No one asked you to do that. Why would you do that to a foreign cricketer anyway? But don't come with absurd statements like no one in UK rates him based on statements from David Cameroon. Then say opinions of Sir Don Bradman and Richie Benaud is irrelevant as they are Aussies. Then use a Facebook page voting to substantiate your points that Dravid was better than him. You can just say I want to troll this monday morning...then everyone will leave you alone. I understand in your country you don't respect your ex cricketers & legends and even jail some of them but we do in India, let it be Dravid or Sachin. Each on their own.

Show me where I said nobody in the UK rates him.

Go on.

 

[Hitman]

LOL, it's funny that random nobodies aka Pakistani fans believe the cricket world acts and revolves as per their thinking. I still remember when Christopher Martin Jenkins released his list of 100 Great Cricketers of All Time. He was abused like anything here by Pakistani posters because he didn't rate their hero Imran Khan and Wasim Akram as per their wishes.

And when Cricinfo released their All Time XI. They were met with abuses by Pakistani posters on PP because their demi God Imran Khan couldn't find a place in the team.

Same thing happened when WISDEN released their All Time XI. How dare they not inculde their demi god Imran Khan in their team


Exact same thing happened when David Gower released his listy of 50 Great Cricketers ever.

And the same thing happened when the late, great Shane Warne releasaed his list of 100 Greatest Players he played with or against. He rated Sachin at #1, and rated Inzamam at #90. He too was hurled with abuses.

Some of these losers don't realise that the cricketing world doesn't suffer from the same delusions that they do.

The rest of the cricketing world knows the worth of their beloved hero Imran Khan and Wasim Akram.

 

[Rajdeep]

Show me where I said nobody in the UK rates him.

Go on.

I will wait here for your response, but if none is provided, then I would ask you to apologise for the unnecessarily abusive language directed at me for expressing a mainstream opinion.

Don't get so emotional

Even he doesn't rate Tendulkar.

Like most fans of the game then

People who actually watch test matches rate Dravid higher in the UK.

We are talking about reputation in the UK

You can say you rate Dravid more but not sure who are you to generalize his reputation in the UK, unless you have done some poll or stats to back your claim?

Now go back to my original post about jealous Pakistanis lapping anyone Root , Lara or Dravid and you will find relevance. If this is not jealously, not sure what is. Then again, you also included David Cameron and FB page poll into the discussion...so there is a touch of comedy in it too.

 

[Rajdeep]

Pure jealously which is unfortunate as most Pakistani ex legends rate Sachin very highly. Not only bcoz of his batting but due to his nature and humbleness. The likes of late Abdul Qadir, then Wasim, Imran, Saqlain...all had good things to say about him. Only here I see unanimous hatred for Sachin but I think it is mostly to rile up Indians.

Also, when one brings Dravid, Kohli, Lara or Root into discussion with Sachin, its a moot point. I have discussed this many times but no one listens.

Dravid was ATG in tests but a Chanderpaul level batsman in ODIs

Root is terrific in tests but a superior version of Ben Hollioake or Robin Uthappa in ODIs

Lara, great in tests again and though good in ODIs but was never ATG in that format. Likes of Ganguly, Anwar and Bevan were better left handed white ball batters than him.

King Kohli already surpassed Sachin in ODI centuries but no where near to him in tests.

Cook closed on him in test but was a Imam Ul Haq level ODI batsman.

Sachin has more runs and more centuries among all the above mentioned batsman in both the codes. He was equally good in white and red ball cricket. So comparing him with any other batsman is futile.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Rahul Dravid was one of the absolute best test batsmen in the world from 1999 to 2002 and till late 2000s he was a premier test batsman.

This is after he’s scored 10k ODI runs while being a dependable middle order anchor role playing batter.


So he’s quite a champion cricketer and an absolute top quality batter.

That being said, this is obviously a troll thread just like the Joe Root, Kumar Sangakkara threads because despite of Dravid’s greatness, Tendulkar remains a solid contender for the GOAT status and a very sure shot Top 3 batter ever. He’s levels above Dravid as a batter in tests alone and then when you see his career across formats he’s the undisputed greatest ever:

 

[Hitman]

Pure jealously which is unfortunate as most Pakistani ex legends rate Sachin very highly. Not only bcoz of his batting but due to his nature and humbleness. The likes of late Abdul Qadir, then Wasim, Imran, Saqlain...all had good things to say about him. Only here I see unanimous hatred for Sachin but I think it is mostly to rile up Indians.

Also, when one brings Dravid, Kohli, Lara or Root into discussion with Sachin, its a moot point. I have discussed this many times but no one listens.

Dravid was ATG in tests but a Chanderpaul level batsman in ODIs

Root is terrific in tests but a superior version of Ben Hollioake or Robin Uthappa in ODIs

Lara, great in tests again and though good in ODIs but was never ATG in that format. Likes of Ganguly, Anwar and Bevan were better left handed white ball batters than him.

King Kohli already surpassed Sachin in ODI centuries but no where near to him in tests.

Cook closed on him in test but was a Imam Ul Haq level ODI batsman.

Sachin has more runs and more centuries among all the above mentioned batsman in both the codes. He was equally good in white and red ball cricket. So comparing him with any other batsman is futile.

It's called inferiority complex. Specially when Sachin hasn't brown nosed any Pakistani player. And yet Pakistani players from Hanif Mohammad, Wasim Akram, Wasim Akram, Saqlain Mushtaq, Shoaib Akthar and the likes have brown nosed him at sometime or the other. When Sachin was injured with his shoulder surgery in 2006, Wasim Akram Akram wrote an article titled 'Sachin, an Unbowlable Batsman of my Era'.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

How did I twisted the timeline when you said majority of people in UK don't rate Sachin? That was a very random blanket statement backed by nothing. How else one suppose to perceive it apart from jealousy?

Then you also said most pundits don't rate him and when I posted the quotes/videos of Sir Don & Benaud, you said you are specifically talking about UK experts.

Your Esteemed PMs comments and your personal views can be anything...however don't make generic statements like Indians rate Dravid more than Sachin, people in UK don't rate Sachin etc.

Facts are there you can argue with them all you like but it is clear you spat your dummy out and made some awful comments for the crime of giving praise to Dravid.

 

[sweep_shot]

Dravid was a better matchwinner than Tendulkar.

His Kolkata 2001 innings, 2003 WC innings etc. were sublime.

 

[sweep_shot]

Facts are there you can argue with them all you like but it is clear you spat your dummy out and made some awful comments for the crime of giving praise to Dravid.

A lot of Indian cricket fans are like zombies. If you don't agree with them, they may call you many insulting things.

 

[Rajdeep]

A lot of Indian cricket fans are like zombies. If you don't agree with them, they may call you many insulting things.

How do you agree with 'people in UK don't rate Sachin' generalization?

This is a forum and people will debate.

Looks like you are not a big fan of opposing voice and anyone raises it becomes Zombie

 

[Rajdeep]

Dravid was a better matchwinner than Tendulkar.

His Kolkata 2001 innings, 2003 WC innings etc. were sublime.

Have you seen Sachin's WC 2003 innings?

 

[Hitman]

Have you seen Sachin's WC 2003 innings?

Shhhhh! You need to agree with whatever sour loser (Pakistani and Bangladeshi fans) these days says.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Dravid was a better matchwinner than Tendulkar.

His Kolkata 2001 innings, 2003 WC innings etc. were sublime.

It wasn't even in the best knock in that innings in Kolkata.

And are you actually suggesting Dravid was the better ODI player ?

 

[Mamoon]

Sachin fans are not true Indian fans. They are willing to humiliate and disrespect Dravid just so that they can protect their midget icon. How pathetic.

 

[Hitman]

Sachin fans are not true Indian fans. They are willing to humiliate and disrespect Dravid just so that they can protect their midget god. How pathetic.

At least they are consistent in their views and don't change color like a chameleon.

 

[Cover Drive Six]

I don't understand why recently some Pakistani fans are obsessed with Sachin and constantly bringing him up in every thread, trying their best to put him down in unrelated topics. First, it was Sachin vs. Sangakkara, Ponting, and Lara, and soon they'll start comparing him with Inzamam and Umar Akmal.

Degrading and projecting Sachin as lesser won't change the actual facts.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Hiding behind Dravid won't help as he was an Indian too. Pakistanis can make Lara, Dravid and Root their abbu's and rotate them frequently based on convenience but everyone is aware that Tendulkar was better than them. All these khujli (itching) just to make cricketer from other countries as abbu's bcoz your own country could never produce a Sachin nor Dravid. This jealously, though nauseating but heck of a funny to witness.

BTW, which people in UK don't rate Sachin? His century as an 18 year old playing for Yorkshire is still talked about. In 2014, MCC vs ROW game, entire Lords gave him standing ovation. Internet mil gaya to kuch bhi bologe?

Sachin has played one of the greatest knocks in Lords, look it up.



These are what experts/pundits have to say about him:

View attachment 146960

One honest advice for Pakistani's like you who regularly bash Sachin here even after 11 years of his retirement, your country gets mocked regularly around the world, let it be cricket or otherwise. Have some humility and don't subject yourself to more humiliation by making such ignorant posts on GOAT cricketers.

#RajdeepSpeaks

could have written without resorting to that sort of language.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I don't understand why recently some Pakistani fans are obsessed with Sachin and constantly bringing him up in every thread, trying their best to put him down in unrelated topics. First, it was Sachin vs. Sangakkara, Ponting, and Lara, and soon they'll start comparing him with Inzamam and Umar Akmal.

Degrading and projecting Sachin as lesser won't change the actual facts.

sachin might well be the GOAT batter but pakistani cricket fans will make whatever comparison they'd like on a pakistani forum. did you come here without expecting it?

 

[Mamoon]

I don't understand why recently some Pakistani fans are obsessed with Sachin and constantly bringing him up in every thread, trying their best to put him down in unrelated topics. First, it was Sachin vs. Sangakkara, Ponting, and Lara, and soon they'll start comparing him with Inzamam and Umar Akmal.

Degrading and projecting Sachin as lesser won't change the actual facts.

You mean facts like how bang average Sachin was vs Pakistan in Test cricket? Pakistan reduced Sachin to a Rahane/Pujara level batsman in Test cricket. That is a big reason why Pakistanis fans are not particularly impressed by him.

Other Indian batsmen like Sehwag and Dravid gave a much harder time to Pakistan. I'm sure Kohli, who is quite an average Test batsman, would have dominated Pakistan a lot better than Tendulkar did had he played Tests vs Pakistan.

 

[Ab Fan]

The problem is not who was better or worse but problem is Pakistani fans are simply not capable of accepting or rather digesting a fact that despite having a stronger team in 90s and luxury of 155-160 kmph pacers in form of Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Shoaib Akhtar and cheats like Mohammad Asif, Mohammad Amir, Saeed Ajmal they couldn't stop Sachin Tendulkar from winning 3 World Cup matches against Pakistan.

No cricketer in the history of the game has won 3 ODI World Cup games against Pakistan as standout performer but Sachin went on to win 3 World Cup games against Pakistan. It is the kind of dominance that has never been seen by a single batsman against a single opponent in high pressure World Cup matches and this has left their fans in sour taste which is why they struggle to acknowledge the greatness of Sachin.

 

[Mamoon]

The problem is not who was better or worse but problem is Pakistani fans are simply not capable of accepting or rather digesting a fact that despite having a stronger team in 90s and luxury of 155-160 kmph pacers in form of Imran Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Shoaib Akhtar and cheats like Mohammad Asif, Mohammad Amir, Saeed Ajmal they couldn't stop Sachin Tendulkar from winning 3 World Cup matches against Pakistan.

No cricketer in the history of the game has won 3 ODI World Cup games against Pakistan as standout performer but Sachin went on to win 3 World Cup games against Pakistan. It is the kind of dominance that has never been seen by a single batsman against a single opponent in high pressure World Cup matches and this has left their fans in sour taste which is why they struggle to acknowledge the greatness of Sachin.

Cool story, but this doesn't change the fact that he was bang average vs Pakistan in Test cricket.

 

[Mamoon]

Indian tactic: Talk about ODIs when you cannot explain why Tendulkar was underwhelming vs Pakistan in Tests

 

[Mamoon]

Tendulkar played 200 Test matches and only won 13 Man of the Match awards. That is a pathetic ratio, almost embarrassing. Almost every other notable cricketer in Test history has had a superior man of the match / matches played ratio.

This clearly proves that Tendulkar had mediocre match winning, match defining abilities.

 

[Hitman]

Tendulkar played 200 Test matches and only won 13 Man of the Match awards. That is a pathetic ratio, almost embarrassing. Almost every other notable cricketer in Test history has had a superior man of the match / matches played ratio.

This clearly proves that Tendulkar had mediocre match winning, match defining abilities.

Miandad played 124 Tests and won 5 MOM awards.

 

[Ab Fan]

Cool story, but this doesn't change the fact that he was bang average vs Pakistan in Test cricket.

Only in your mind because in reality, he contributed in winning his team a test series win in Pakistan with a superb 194 at Multan.

Leaving out that knock is same as leaving out Joe Root's double tons he got at Multan in which Brooks got a triple ton and aside of that, Root has mostly failures only in Pakistan.

Tendulkar atleast dominated in high pressure World Cup games against Pakistan like none did by winning his team 3 World Cup games against Pakistan, two of them when Pakistan had the likes of Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib starring in it.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Miandad played 124 Tests and won 5 MOM awards.

There are no motm records in 70s and early 80s hence why the number is low.

There are MOTM records for the duration of Sachins career. The only explanation for why his number is low is what the Wisden top 100 Wikipedia entry says:

Wisden defended the list stating that performances which made a major contribution to victory received a much larger weighting than those in which the match was drawn or lost. Tendulkar's most important innings had usually come in draws and defeats, and therefore received a lower weighting.[4]

 

[Hitman]

There are no motm records in 70s and early 80s hence why the number is low.

LOL, why are you embarrassing yourself?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

LOL, why are you embarrassing yourself?

The only one being embarrassed here is you.

you got Miandads figure of 5 from cricinfo. Scroll to the bottom of the page here is what it says.

Match awards have only been a regular feature in Tests since the mid-1980s and the list is not complete for earlier matches

Open up Miandads early scorecards you won't see any MOTM record.

Now open up Tendulkars and you will see MOTM record for every match.

 

[Rajdeep]

Sachin didn't play test cricket with Pakistan for better part of 90s which were his absolute peak years. So counting his failures against one team is a layman argument. Even then he avgs 42 against them which was by no means a failure. Failure is someone like Waqar younis who avgs 49 with the ball against India.

Also never knew only performing against Pakistan defines greatness. In that case Sehwag is the greatest batsman who avgs 92 with a strike rate of 80 against them?

 

[TheSultan]

Dravid was much greater than Tendulkar. A real fighter and not a mental midget (pun intended) who went missing when India needed him.

Dravid was mentally tougher, had better technique, played more attractive shots (when he played them) and had a clear identity as a batsman. Tendulkar was all over the place. He was neither a Great Wall like Dravid, nor classy like VvS, and Azhar, nor attacking like Sehwag.

 

[TheSultan]

Ok, now watch…..incoming….

ODIs
MoM awards
Richie benaud’s gReAtEst XI
Christopher Martin Jenkins’ random list
A very old Don Bradman saying Sachin was the same height as him.

Have I missed anything?

 

[Technics 1210]

Come back when Tendulkar has his name on the honour's board at the home of Cricket - Lord's.

Until then Dravid is lightyears ahead of Tendulkar. Tendulkar was a coward at #3 in Tests, in steps Dravid, the rest is history.

Remember it was Dravid who spoke to the media as a player when Tendulkar shot for the hills because he failed to score his 100th 100 in England that tour.

It is a fact - in England, Dravid is respected above and beyond Tendulkar, and for good reasons.

 

[Technics 1210]

Ok, now watch…..incoming….

ODIs
MoM awards
Richie benaud’s gReAtEst XI
Christopher Martin Jenkins’ random list
A very old Don Bradman saying Sachin was the same height as him.

Have I missed anything?

Richie Benaud's greatest hits!

 

[TheSultan]

Come back when Tendulkar has his name on the honour's board at the home of Cricket - Lord's.

Until then Dravid is lightyears ahead of Tendulkar. Tendulkar was a coward at #3 in Tests, in steps Dravid, the rest is history.

Remember it was Dravid who spoke to the media as a player when Tendulkar shot for the hills because he failed to score his 100th 100 in England that tour.

It is a fact - in England, Dravid is respected above and beyond Tendulkar, and for good reasons.

Dravid commanded respect. Just a classy player and a good bloke.

That 2011 tour was beautiful!

 

[Rajdeep]

Ok, now watch…..incoming….

ODIs
MoM awards
Richie benaud’s gReAtEst XI
Christopher Martin Jenkins’ random list
A very old Don Bradman saying Sachin was the same height as him.

Have I missed anything?

Not sure what you mean by watch incoming....people will respond, especially if you vent your frustration on a keyboard on great cricketers out of frustration.

1. He indeed has got most number of runs and centuries in both test and ODI cricket.
2. Richie Benaud the cricket legend has rated him best batsman after Bradman (video posted above)
3. Don Bradman never said Sachin was same height as him. It is typical Pakistani mentality of body shaming. What he said was, when he watched Sachin bat...it reminded of him and he even invited Sachin in his house

All of the above the are facts...stats wise and also by opinion of cricket greats. No one is making these up.

However, we should ignore all of that and listen to Sultan school of speeches bcoz he is jealous that his country couldn't produce a batsman 25% of his calibre.

 

[TheSultan]

Not sure what you mean by watch incoming....people will respond, especially if you vent your frustration on a keyboard on great cricketers out of frustration.

1. He indeed has got most number of runs and centuries in both test and ODI cricket.
2. Richie Benaud the cricket legend has rated him best batsman after Bradman (video posted above)
3. Don Bradman never said Sachin was same height as him. It is typical Pakistani mentality of body shaming. What he said was, when he watched Sachin bat...it reminded of him and he even invited Sachin in his house

All of the above the are facts...stats wise and also by opinion of cricket greats. No one is making these up.

However, we should ignore all of that and listen to Sultan school of speeches bcoz he is jealous that his country couldn't produce a batsman 25% of his calibre.

Why are you guys getting so itchy? I’m just praising an Indian - Dravid. Yes, there are other Indians, not just the little mister.

 

[Rajdeep]

Dravid commanded respect. Just a classy player and a good bloke.

That 2011 tour was beautiful!

Dravid commands respect? Dude he is one of the most respected cricketer in India.

As I said yesterday, hiding behind Dravid's rear side and make him a new (guess the word) won't help.

He is an Indian too.

 

[Rajdeep]

Why are you guys getting so itchy? I’m just praising an Indian - Dravid. Yes, there are other Indians, not just the little mister.

I am not getting itchy. Who is getting itchy can be seen from far.

However, in a forum people will respond, especially to the garbage posts. Looks like you are not very fond of opposing views mr POTW.

 

[mominsaigol]

LOL, it's funny that random nobodies aka Pakistani fans believe the cricket world acts and revolves as per their thinking. I still remember when Christopher Martin Jenkins released his list of 100 Great Cricketers of All Time. He was abused like anything here by Pakistani posters because he didn't rate their hero Imran Khan and Wasim Akram as per their wishes.

And when Cricinfo released their All Time XI. They were met with abuses by Pakistani posters on PP because their demi God Imran Khan couldn't find a place in the team.

Same thing happened when WISDEN released their All Time XI. How dare they not inculde their demi god Imran Khan in their team


Exact same thing happened when David Gower released his listy of 50 Great Cricketers ever.

And the same thing happened when the late, great Shane Warne releasaed his list of 100 Greatest Players he played with or against. He rated Sachin at #1, and rated Inzamam at #90. He too was hurled with abuses.

Some of these losers don't realise that the cricketing world doesn't suffer from the same delusions that they do.

The rest of the cricketing world knows the worth of their beloved hero Imran Khan and Wasim Akram.

Imran Khan in an atg 11 team? No would put Imran their. Their better no 7 allrounders.

Wasim akram is debatable though, he makes a solid case for no 8.

Sachin gets in any test and odi 11 as an opener followed by Gilchrist as an opener in odi. Sanga vs Gilly in test is debatable imo.

But Gilchrist and Sachin must be automatic openers in any atg 11. Jaysuria as a 3rd option, but gilly due to keeping.

Theirs no way to have an atg 11 without Sachin at one end.

Better question is to discuss Pointing vs Kphli at no 3.

I pick Pointing however. Pointing during golden years + Captaincy puts him ahead imo.

Ps: I'm talking about odi atg 11.

For test Sachin opens along with Sunny, Greame Smith or Hobbs.

 

[mominsaigol]

Not sure what you mean by watch incoming....people will respond, especially if you vent your frustration on a keyboard on great cricketers out of frustration.

1. He indeed has got most number of runs and centuries in both test and ODI cricket.
2. Richie Benaud the cricket legend has rated him best batsman after Bradman (video posted above)
3. Don Bradman never said Sachin was same height as him. It is typical Pakistani mentality of body shaming. What he said was, when he watched Sachin bat...it reminded of him and he even invited Sachin in his house

All of the above the are facts...stats wise and also by opinion of cricket greats. No one is making these up.

However, we should ignore all of that and listen to Sultan school of speeches bcoz he is jealous that his country couldn't produce a batsman 25% of his calibre.

Bradman said Sachin was 2nd greatest after him as well.

I disagree as I believe peak Steve smith surpassed Sachin but longetivity counts so Sachin is ahead while smith dwindled later.

Also please no one attack me for smith. Alot ofnpeople get mad at this. But it's my opinion.

I firmly believe Steve smith during his golden years was superior to Sachin during his golden years in test, but yes Sachin > Smith cause smith dwindled faster then anyone else.

I also believe Lara > Sachin in test.

However yes Bradman and Benaud both said Sachin is no 2.

 

[TheSultan]

Dravid commands respect? Dude he is one of the most respected cricketer in India.

As I said yesterday, hiding behind Dravid's rear side and make him a new (guess the word) won't help.

He is an Indian too.

Thanks for agreeing with me

 

[mominsaigol]

Tendulkar is overrated by Indian fans, my only issue with Indian fans is their need to Shove Tendulkar into me cause I don't view Sachin as a folklore and I firmly will call put his nonsense like 2003 final that Indian fans defend.

But I still believe Tendulkar makes it as an opener in any test all time 11 or Odi all time 11.

He's still no 1 in odi and top 5 in test for Me.

But no i don't believe he's 100% superior to everyone. That has not happened since Bradman.

 

[Rajdeep]

Bradman said Sachin was 2nd greatest after him as well.

I disagree as I believe peak Steve smith surpassed Sachin but longetivity counts so Sachin is ahead while smith dwindled later.

Also please no one attack me for smith. Alot ofnpeople get mad at this. But it's my opinion.

I firmly believe Steve smith during his golden years was superior to Sachin during his golden years in test, but yes Sachin > Smith cause smith dwindled faster then anyone else.

I also believe Lara > Sachin in test.

However yes Bradman and Benaud both said Sachin is no 2.

Sure you are free to have your own opinion....everyone has one.

However, I asked you this before as well, which formats we are discussing when comparing any player with Sachin?

Smithy had a great brief golden period in test cricket which lasted for what? 5 years at max? However, he is not great of a batter in ODIs.

Same for all other players like Lara, Dravid, Root, Cook, Kohli, Sehwag etc. who has got ATG stats in one code but avg in others.

Sachin was equally good in both red and white ball cricket, maintained that consistency from 1989 to 2013 with never an extended poor form.

So it is illogical to compare any batsman with him and if you are doing so specifiy a format. Say clearly, Hey Rajdeep I think XYZ batter is better than Tendulkar in this format. Otherwise comparing any cricketer with goddy is wasting time and effort

 

[Rajdeep]

Come back when Tendulkar has his name on the honour's board at the home of Cricket - Lord's.

Until then Dravid is lightyears ahead of Tendulkar. Tendulkar was a coward at #3 in Tests, in steps Dravid, the rest is history.

Remember it was Dravid who spoke to the media as a player when Tendulkar shot for the hills because he failed to score his 100th 100 in England that tour.

It is a fact - in England, Dravid is respected above and beyond Tendulkar, and for good reasons.

Lara and Ponting also don't have test century in Lords but Ajit Agarkar does. So with your logic, Agarkar is a better bat than them? Sorry to say but you guys have totally humiliated yourselves in this thread. This is what happens when you disrespect great cricketers out of jealousy and bigotry.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Please stay on topic... No personal remarks

 

[DeadlyVenom]

You have said things like Sachin is second to Bradman.

Sachin gets in any all time XI.

Imran is number 7 all rounder and won't get into the side.

These are the subtle ways that Sachinistas duck and dive to spread their theories. When someone tries to subtly spread Sachinism under false pretences I will call them out and expose them.

 

[mominsaigol]

Sure you are free to have your own opinion....everyone has one.

However, I asked you this before as well, which formats we are discussing when comparing any player with Sachin?

Smithy had a great brief golden period in test cricket which lasted for what? 5 years at max? However, he is not great of a batter in ODIs.

Same for all other players like Lara, Dravid, Root, Cook, Kohli, Sehwag etc. who has got ATG stats in one code but avg in others.

Sachin was equally good in both red and white ball cricket, maintained that consistency from 1989 to 2013 with never an extended poor form.

So it is illogical to compare any batsman with him and if you are doing so specifiy a format. Say clearly, Hey Rajdeep I think XYZ batter is better than Tendulkar in this format. Otherwise comparing any cricketer with goddy is wasting time and effort

I specifically mentioned test for smith bro?

Regardless this is my issue with some of you(not referring to you)

Like when I talked about Warner vs Laxman, everyone felt the need to Shove laxman only for test into me .

But for Sachin it has to be both formats lol.

Everyone already knows my opinions.

Sachin no 1 in odi and top 5 In test,

Magar everyone wants hero worship.

Sachin just like everyone else has horrible innings, Has match losing innings, is not the most complete batter ever, Is not superior to everyone in every metric imaginable, Has certain poor metrics.

Yes he also has most runs, a good avg and sr, Most hundreds, plenty of match winning innings, has performed across the planet etc etc.

Its just indian fans go into frenzy when I mention something negative about Sachin.

As I said, he's a human, not a God, he's played filth just like everyone else.

I have no issues admitting that even lara and pointing and many others have also played filth.

It is impossible for someone to have such a long career and be perfect. Even the great Don himself couldn't achieve perfection with his final innings being a massive stain in his career and prevented that 100 avg followed by his 56 avg in bodyline.

But most indian fans don't wanna admit this. The slogan God of cricket is fine but many Shove this into me like it's literal lol

 

[mominsaigol]

You have said things like Sachin is second to Bradman.

Sachin gets in any all time XI.

Imran is number 7 all rounder and won't get into the side.

These are the subtle ways that Sachinistas duck and dive to spread their theories. When someone tries to subtly spread Sachinism under false pretences I will call them out and expose them.

Sachin gets into any all time 11 and is second to bradman in terms of longetivity.

That's an undeniable fact, and anyone who isn't sane or has stupid comments such as chacha is a goat must be made aware.

My issue with Sachin fans is their refusal to admit that their god isn't perfect hence why I bring up certain innings in 2003, his captaincy career as well as 2011 and 2012.

But what is wrong with what I said?

Lara, Smith and many others are better then Sachin in test during their golden years, pointing in 2006 was superior to 2006 Sachin by every metric.

However if you analyse their entire career Sachin is ultimately no 2 in test and no 1 in odi.

He has longetivity, The most runs, the most centuries, and his worst performance is a 40 avg in pakistan in test compared to many greats like pointing who avg 26 in India etc etc.

It is impossible to deny it.

If you wish to get into specific time periods then I will agree.

Golden year pointing, Smith, lara and many others are superior to Sachin but if you look at everything else Sachin reaches no 2 in test and no 1 in odi.

Unfortunately that's the truth. You can deny it but it's factually their for you to see. No one asked these players to continue.

It's also why I get mad at Smith, I wish he retired before falling off, so I could claim Smith was superior to Sachin, But longetivity and career trajectory need to be taken into account.

You're free to debate me and I will argue with you properly + with respect.

But ik that not only will you get aggressive or passive aggressive, you will also hypocritically point fingers towards me.

I apologise that Sachin upsets you, I get mad at Indian posters to, however their is a difference at me getting mad at Indian posters for overglorifying their God and me not acknowledging certain facts.

The day a player comes in who does not dwindle their form and consistently is > Sachin then I'll be the first to point it out.

 

[anikrc1]

Sachin is one of the 4 best batsmen post 1970. Viv lara Sachin and Smith. Among them you can order them any way you like.

 

[mominsaigol]

@DeadlyVenom let me rephrase

Sachin is no 1 in odi and no 2 in test.

However he is not the God that Indian fans have portrayed him to be as he isn't superior to everyone by every metric like bradman was and lara, Smith and many others in their golden years are > him, followed by the fact that their still > him in certain metrics like avg or performance in some countries, like sanga in aus > Sachin in aus in test

However overall + longetivity Sachin wins, Smith dwindled, the rest have certain issues like bad records In some countries like pointing does.

 

[anikrc1]

Post 1970 world xi

First team
Gavaskar
G. Smith
Viv
Tendulakar
Lara
Gilchrist
Imran
Wasim
Warne
Marshall
Mcgrath
Second team
Gooch
Hayden
Kallis
Steve Smith
Greg Chappell
Steve Waugh
Risabh pant
Hadlee
Steyn
Ambrose
Murali

 

[Technics 1210]

Dravid commanded respect. Just a classy player and a good bloke.

That 2011 tour was beautiful!

That tour cemented Dravid's legend. 3 centuries, inc 2 b2b centuries, topped with a century at Lord's. Above all, the bottle to face the media in the aftermath of a humiliating whitewash - meanwhile BCCI's spearhead-couple Dhoni and Tendulkar vanished into thin air because BCCI's plan to hatch a 100th 100 for Tendulkar was destroyed before their eyes!

Tim Bresnan! You beauty! 91 and out!

 

[Hitman]

Not sure what you mean by watch incoming....people will respond, especially if you vent your frustration on a keyboard on great cricketers out of frustration.

1. He indeed has got most number of runs and centuries in both test and ODI cricket.
2. Richie Benaud the cricket legend has rated him best batsman after Bradman (video posted above)
3. Don Bradman never said Sachin was same height as him. It is typical Pakistani mentality of body shaming. What he said was, when he watched Sachin bat...it reminded of him and he even invited Sachin in his house

All of the above the are facts...stats wise and also by opinion of cricket greats. No one is making these up.

However, we should ignore all of that and listen to Sultan school of speeches bcoz he is jealous that his country couldn't produce a batsman 25% of his calibre.

The best batsman they have produced averages a fantabulous 29 in 16 Test matches against the best team of his time, the West Indies. This despite the fact that he had the likes of Shakoor Rana watching his back at home.

 

[aukhan]

Dravid was a one trick pony only. Sachin was a clear match winner.

 

[Mamoon]

Only in your mind because in reality, he contributed in winning his team a test series win in Pakistan with a superb 194 at Multan.

Leaving out that knock is same as leaving out Joe Root's double tons he got at Multan in which Brooks got a triple ton and aside of that, Root has mostly failures only in Pakistan.

Tendulkar atleast dominated in high pressure World Cup games against Pakistan like none did by winning his team 3 World Cup games against Pakistan, two of them when Pakistan had the likes of Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib starring in it.

When you average only 40 in spite of a 194 not out, it clearly shows how big of a liability you were in the other matches. Two years later, he returned to average a mere 40.

Once again, there is no point in changing the subject and focusing on ODI cricket. That clearly shows that you are unable to defend his paltry performance vs Pakistan in Tests.

Now let’s talk about his 194*. It is one of the most forgettable daddy hundreds to have ever been scored and that can be proved by the fact that Ganguly/Dravid declared before he could get to his 200 because it was clear and obvious to them that he was stat padding and playing for his 200.

That decision exposed the mindset of Tendulkar and how his obsession with personal milestones was perceived by his teammates.

Sehwag put Pakistan on the floor with his flamboyant batting and without a care for personal milestones.

Yuvraj was also playing an aggressive ODI knock and taking risks to maximize the total.

However, Tendulkar was doing tuk tuk and playing out maidens against a deflated attack on a dead pitch where India had already amassed 600 and needed to score as many and as quickly as possible before the declaration.

That 194 said a lot about his psyche and attitude as a player and this psyche and attitude were one of the factors behind his abysmal leadership. The fact that he was not allowed to score 200 on that day was poetic justice.

He failed in the next Test in Lahore scoring 10 runs in the entire match as Pakistan leveled the series.

In the decider Test in Pindi, Dravid scored an epic 270 after coming to the crease at 0/1 in 0.1 overs, while Tendulkar could only score 1 run.

That was his contribution to winning a historic series in Pakistan. Average of 5 in the match that Pakistan won and Average of 0.5 in the series decider.

He ended up 6th on the list of top scorers in that series behind 3 Indians.

The fact is that India would have still won the series even if he didn’t play. He had zero contribution in 2/3 Tests and the Multan Test was won by Sehwag with the bat and Pathan and Kumble with the ball.

 

[Mamoon]

Let’s talk about the Chennai Test where his match losing century in the second innings become part of the Indian cricket hall of fame and earned him a charity man of the match award.

The reality is that Afridi was robbed of the man of the match award just like Stokes was robbed by Kane in the 2019 World Cup (man of the tournament).

Afridi’s 141 in the second was a better innings than Tendulkar’s 136 because it changed the momentum of the match and ultimately proved to be the difference.

A Test opener scoring 141 at a 70+ SR in 1999 in a Pakistan vs India Test is an all time great knock. Afridi does not get enough credit for that epic knock because it was easily the highlight of his career and bigger than the entire careers of a lot of Pakistani players.

In addition to scoring that hundred, he took 3 wickets in the first innings including the crucial wicket of Ganguly who was batting really well with the tail and was threatening to take India to a significant lead that would have proved to be to steep to overcome for Pakistan.

In the second innings, he bowled extremely economically and didn’t allow Tendulkar to run away with the game.

He produced a 10/10 match winning performance in the match out scoring Tendulkar in both innings (who scored a duck in the first innings) and the fact that he was overlooked for the man of the match award was daylight robbery.

This brings us back to Tendulkar’s embarrassing man of the match to matches played ratio. Not only is it poor as it is, he has also robbed other players a few times who produced more significant performances in the same match.

Tendulkar’s poor rate tells us the following: he drizzled but rarely thundered. When India were losing he wasn’t good enough to change the course of the tide and when India were winning, he would get outperformed by his teammates more often than not which is what Dravid did most of the time and hence his superior ratio.

David was clearly a more impactful batsman even if aggregate stats don’t reflect that because he was the architect of most of the famous wins for India in Test cricket.

The fact that Tendulkar had 0 contribution in the greatest Indian Test victory of all time (Kolkata 2001) says everything that needs to be said about his career. He scored 10 runs in both innings.

You remove Tendulkar from the equation and 99% of the results don’t change. Indian don’t win any of the matches they didn’t win and they don’t lose any of the matches that they didn’t lose. However, you remove Dravid, Ganguly, Kumble etc. from the equation and a lot changes for Indian cricket in the late 90s and 2000s.

Tendulkar is nothing more than the greatest stat padder in Test cricket history.

 

[Mamoon]

What stopped Tendulkar from playing the innings that Dravid did in Rawalpindi or Adelaide or Eden Gardens?

It was his own mindset. The same mindset that resulted in his failure as a leader.

In Eden Gardens, he walked to the crease before Dravid did.

In Rawalpindi, we all know what the outcome would have been had he walked to the crease at 3 with India 0/1 in 0.1 overs. There is absolutely no way he scores 270.

Those three Dravid innings alone are bigger than Tendulkar’s entire Test career.

 

[Mamoon]

Sachin didn't play test cricket with Pakistan for better part of 90s which were his absolute peak years. So counting his failures against one team is a layman argument. Even then he avgs 42 against them which was by no means a failure. Failure is someone like Waqar younis who avgs 49 with the ball against India.

Also never knew only performing against Pakistan defines greatness. In that case Sehwag is the greatest batsman who avgs 92 with a strike rate of 80 against them?

It is not Pakistan’s problem that Sachin didn’t play them between 1989 and 1999. We can only go by the matches that actually happened and not ponder over fantasy series. He could have scored a million runs for all we care, but in the matches that actually took place, he was nothing special.

An average of 42 is an abysmal failure for a batsman who is touted as the god of batting and the greatest to walk the earth. It is an abysmal failure for a batsman who is supposedly so good that it is blasphemy to compare him to other great Test batsmen with a 50+ average and 30+ centuries.

The fact is that Pakistan reduced him to a Rahane/Pujara level batsman in Test cricket and if other teams could bowl to him in Tests like Pakistan did, he would have been lost in history.

He was nothing special against Pakistan so there is no reason why Pakistani fans should be in awe of him.

 

[Rajdeep]

It is not Pakistan’s problem that Sachin didn’t play them between 1989 and 1999. We can only go by the matches that actually happened and not ponder over fantasy series. He could have scored a million runs for all we care, but in the matches that actually took place, he was nothing special.

An average of 42 is an abysmal failure for a batsman who is touted as the god of batting and the greatest to walk the earth. It is an abysmal failure for a batsman who is supposedly so good that it is blasphemy to compare him to other great Test batsmen with a 50+ average and 30+ centuries.

The fact is that Pakistan reduced him to a Rahane/Pujara level batsman in Test cricket and if other teams could bowl to him in Tests like Pakistan did, he would have been lost in history.

He was nothing special against Pakistan so there is no reason why Pakistani fans should be in awe of him.

Calling avg of 42 in one country an abysmal failure is a pure exaggeration when he didn't even get to play there for an entire decade. Just like how Waqar Younis avg 49 with the ball against India in test cricket for the very same reason.

No one is saying it is Pakistan's fault but it wasn't Sachin's fault either that there were no bilateral cricket in 90s like it is not the fault of Rohit or Kohli now that BCCI don't want to play against Pakistan. However it is wrong to say he was not a great batsman just bcoz he scored less runs against one single opposition. This is entitlement which is based on no reality.

Also, no one asked Pakistani fans to be in awe of him, though that Centurion knock itself was enough but lets ignore that for this discussion. At the same token no one should also say to the Indian fans how to rate him. Everyone has their own opinion, just like you don't represent entire Pakistan...I don't speak for entire India.

Sachin is celebrated around the world unanimously as the 2nd greatest batsman after Sir Don bcoz he has scored most runs and centuries in both the codes of cricket maintaining the same consistency for 24 years playing under immense pressure carrying the burden of a billion supporter. Nitpciking his failure against one country or he don't have century in one ground can be attributed to jealously, or in some posters case 'pure trolling'.

Rajdeep.

 

[mominsaigol]

It is not Pakistan’s problem that Sachin didn’t play them between 1989 and 1999. We can only go by the matches that actually happened and not ponder over fantasy series. He could have scored a million runs for all we care, but in the matches that actually took place, he was nothing special.

An average of 42 is an abysmal failure for a batsman who is touted as the god of batting and the greatest to walk the earth. It is an abysmal failure for a batsman who is supposedly so good that it is blasphemy to compare him to other great Test batsmen with a 50+ average and 30+ centuries.

The fact is that Pakistan reduced him to a Rahane/Pujara level batsman in Test cricket and if other teams could bowl to him in Tests like Pakistan did, he would have been lost in history.

He was nothing special against Pakistan so there is no reason why Pakistani fans should be in awe of him.

Don't forget his 2003 knock.

Indian fans have obsessively claimed that Sachin failed due to Mcgrath and the target being 360,

However the question is, How is it that the God of cricket and the most complete batsmen of that era cannot play an iconic knock and put everyone in their place? Why does it matter that mcgrath was on?

A god of cricket should have been able to bash a 200 and casually gotten India over the line?

The funny thing is, Sehwag in that same game scored 82 at a strike rate of 101 and got run out.

Sehwag had no issues keeping pace, All Sachin had to do was back him and india could have won or atleast gotten close to the target of 360.

It should have been easy for the God of cricket to back Sehwag?

Yet I keep hearing narratives on how difficult the bowling attack was, and how high the score was?

Like who cares? Indians call him a God and the greatest? I see no reason why a God can't deal with an attack when his fellow opener could.

 

[Rajdeep]

There is nothing called as Stats Paddler in cricket. It is a term given by fans whose favourite players rely on the word talent and reputation rather than actual performance. Your stats automatically boosts when you do good on the field. Cricket is a team sports and an individual scoring runs or taking wickets can never do harm to any team and can be never be attributed to stats paddling. This is even ironic when one associate such attribute to a player like Sachin who back in the 90s was the only player India has. I will give you one example, 96 semi final vs SL. Sachin scored 65 and once he gets out India gets folded for 120. A strawman argument here would be look he just stats padded and couldn't take his team to victory. That is how silly this logic is.

 

[TheSultan]

Pakistan series have really exposed Tendulkar.

1. 1989 Pushed as a young prodigy. Pakistan gave him a bloody nose.
2. Chennai 1999 - one of the big choke jobs ever.
3. 194* - epitomised his selfish batting approach. Dravid, poor guy had no option but to declare. Even his own teammate got sick of his stat padding.
4. Walked off without edging the ball in 2006 because he couldn’t handle the heat Shoaib was bringing
5. Showed he was an allrounder of incompetency in 2006 Karachi test. Couldn’t get out of the way of a rising ball vs Shoaib and got smacked on the helmet, then got done by one that kept slightly low by Asif.

Pakistan exposed the following:
* pushed too early as a 16 year old (point no.1)
* choker (point no.2)
* statpadder (point no.3)
* lack of heart and guts (point no4)
* poor against any challenging bowling (point no. 5).

Pakistan owned this overrated statpadder.

 

[TheSultan]

There is nothing called as Stats Paddler in cricket. It is a term given by fans whose favourite players rely on the word talent and reputation rather than actual performance. Your stats automatically boosts when you do good on the field. Cricket is a team sports and an individual scoring runs or taking wickets can never do harm to any team and can be never be attributed to stats paddling. This is even ironic when one associate such attribute to a player like Sachin who back in the 90s was the only player India has. I will give you one example, 96 semi final vs SL. Sachin scored 65 and once he gets out India gets folded for 120. A strawman argument here would be look he just stats padded and couldn't take his team to victory. That is how silly this logic is.

“Stat Padder”

 

[mominsaigol]

There is nothing called as Stats Paddler in cricket. It is a term given by fans whose favourite players rely on the word talent and reputation rather than actual performance. Your stats automatically boosts when you do good on the field. Cricket is a team sports and an individual scoring runs or taking wickets can never do harm to any team and can be never be attributed to stats paddling. This is even ironic when one associate such attribute to a player like Sachin who back in the 90s was the only player India has. I will give you one example, 96 semi final vs SL. Sachin scored 65 and once he gets out India gets folded for 120. A strawman argument here would be look he just stats padded and couldn't take his team to victory. That is how silly this logic is.

That is completly false.

Otherwise Misbah is a terrific player in odi. But anyone who watched Misbah would know he's the most atrocious player in whiteball to exist.

Unless your knowledge comes from the Book of @Major stat padder is 200% applicable and you can easily cost your team despite having good numbers.

It's applicable to almost every sport. Even in football where certain goalkeepers have boosted and inflated their stats by saving goals that were easy and wouldn't affect the game but always clunking the goals that needed to be saved but cost the game yet their stats show their goat keepers

 

[DeadlyVenom]

There is nothing called as Stats Paddler in cricket. It is a term given by fans whose favourite players rely on the word talent and reputation rather than actual performance. Your stats automatically boosts when you do good on the field. Cricket is a team sports and an individual scoring runs or taking wickets can never do harm to any team and can be never be attributed to stats paddling. This is even ironic when one associate such attribute to a player like Sachin who back in the 90s was the only player India has. I will give you one example, 96 semi final vs SL. Sachin scored 65 and once he gets out India gets folded for 120. A strawman argument here would be look he just stats padded and couldn't take his team to victory. That is how silly this logic is.

We will use @Hitman favourite Wisden

here is the criteria for how iconic batting knocks are measured

1. Batting Base points
The Batting Base points are given for Runs scored. This Index is given a weightage of around 30%. Brian Lara, for his 375, gets the highest Index value.
2. Pitch Index
Rhis index is determined based on the Runs scored in a match and number of wickets, which have fallen. Normalizing is done to take care of wide variations. Additional normalization is done to reflect the pre-WW1 situation with uncovered pitches.

3. Bowling Quality Index
The Bowling Quality Index is based on the quality of bowlers who have bowled in the innings. A minimum of 4 and a maximum of 5 bowlers are taken for determining this Index value. Care is taken that the fifth bowler (e-g, Richards) does not lower the Index determination adversely.

4. Percentage of Score Index
This reflects the % of team runs scored by the batsman. Surprisingly, Bannerman's 166 in the first test ever is still the highest % score in a completed innings.

5. Point of Entry Index
This index reflects the entry point and distinguishes between 5 for 1, 27 for 2, 35 for 3 etc. For the first innings of the test, the index is absolute. For the other three innings, the Index is linked to a target score, exact for the last innings and national for the other two.

6. After point of Entry Index
This index reflects the difference between entering at, say, 10 for 2 with a third wicket partnership of 100 and entering at 10 for 2 and the score going down to 20 for พ.

7. Wkts falling while at crease Index
This index reflect the number of wickets seen through by the batsman. An opening batsman, carrying his bat through, gets the highest value.

8. Support Index
This reflects the support received by the batsman while he played his innings.

9. Shepherding of Tail enders Index
This index is based on the way the batsman has nursed the 8-11 batsmen and built partnerships. The highest value is given for a batsman who has been involved in 4 signigicant partnerships.

10. Highest score Index
This is the lowest rated parameter and is given to the innings if the same is the highest for the team.

11. Match Status Index
This is complex index, which reflects the status of the match. The highest value is given to a successful and close fourth innings chase (Lara's 153*) or a great match-winning innings after a follow-on (Laxman's 281).

12. Result contribution Index. This index is based on the sum of the 11 index values and reflects the value of the players contribution, through the considered innings, to the match result. The match should be a win (x points) or a draw (0.3x points) for this index value to be allocated. Additional weightage is given for away wins.

In addition, the Index values, which are calculated, are downsized proportionately if the innings is less than 100.


Based on all of this, they decided that no Tendulkar knock should be included in the top 100 knocks in test cricket.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Anyway I don't even know why we are arguing. Wisden India concluded that Indians preferred Dravid.
Of course the Indian posters claim its an ISI conspiracy and it was actually Pakistanis who voted for Dravid.

 

[Rajdeep]

1. 1989 Pushed as a young prodigy. Pakistan gave him a bloody nose.

Anyone can get hurt on those days playing with an open helmet. Sachin even after that bloody nose given by 49 avg bowler Waqar went onto score 57 runs in the same innings. Looks like a failed attempt by you highlighting this innings

2. Chennai 1999 - one of the big choke jobs ever.

The reality is his partnership with Mongia against a high class bowling attack on 5th day is one of the greatest knocks ever played in Chennai. When Ganguly got out, India were 82-5 chasing 271 and it was guaranteed victory there for Pakistan. From there Sachin took the team almost home and when he got out only 17 runs needed. If other batsman can't touch the bat on ball how is it his fault and how is that a choke job?

3. 194* - epitomised his selfish batting approach. Dravid, poor guy had no option but to declare. Even his own teammate got sick of his stat padding.

Again you don't the full story. Sachin was said during lunch break, India will bat for 30 more mins and then will declare. However, at the insistence of Ganguly, Dravid declared before that 30 mins time zone as team management got paranoid they will not have enough time to bowl Pakistan out.

4. Walked off without edging the ball in 2006 because he couldn’t handle the heat Shoaib was bringing

Sometimes batsmen can't feel if the ball has touched his bat or not. It happens even in this DRS era. Like how Fakhar Zaman walked off in Asia Cup 2018 match vs India, Kohli walked off against Amir in 2019 WC etc. It has nothing to do with the heat from the bowler (whatever it means)

5. Showed he was an allrounder of incompetency in 2006 Karachi test. Couldn’t get out of the way of a rising ball vs Shoaib and got smacked on the helmet, then got done by one that kept slightly low by Asif.

Anyone can get hit on helmet, just like how Zaheer Khan floored Rashid Latif in 2003 WC.

Pakistan owned this overrated statpadder.

Sure

 

[Rajdeep]

Anyway I don't even know why we are arguing. Wisden India concluded that Indians preferred Dravid.
Of course the Indian posters claim its an ISI conspiracy and it was actually Pakistanis who voted for Dravid.

Wisden India didn't conclude anything. This was informed to you yesterday as well but looks like you are back with same topic for some more trolling.

When you do a public poll on something in facebook, Wisden India or anyone, it is not restricted to only Indians voting in it. There is no voter ID card required to vote in public poling in social media. You can also go and vote for Kashmir Banega Pakistan as Yes or can Rahul Gandhi become next Italian PM as No. However they don't mean anything.

All you guys need to know, Sachin the 2nd greatest batsman after Bradman and that is unanimously acknowledged by all cricket pundits including Sir Don himself. Any criticism about him will not be tolerated and we will defend at any cost.

 

[Rajdeep]

That is completly false.

Otherwise Misbah is a terrific player in odi. But anyone who watched Misbah would know he's the most atrocious player in whiteball to exist.

Unless your knowledge comes from the Book of @Major stat padder is 200% applicable and you can easily cost your team despite having good numbers.

It's applicable to almost every sport. Even in football where certain goalkeepers have boosted and inflated their stats by saving goals that were easy and wouldn't affect the game but always clunking the goals that needed to be saved but cost the game yet their stats show their goat keepers

Think we are digressing from the topic a bit and happy to discuss in another thread but Misbah avgs 43 in ODIs with zero hundreds. So when did he stats pad and how is he a terrific ODI player?

Sachin has 49 ODI centuries. How can someone Stats pad those numbers and even if someone is doing that it is only benefiting the team and not otherwise.

I don't understand some of the logic here at all.

 

[mominsaigol]

Think we are digressing from the topic a bit and happy to discuss in another thread but Misbah avgs 43 in ODIs with zero hundreds. So when did he stats pad and how is he a terrific ODI player?

Sachin has 49 ODI centuries. How can someone Stats pad those numbers and even if someone is doing that it is only benefiting the team and not otherwise.

I don't understand some of the logic here at all.

Misbah is not a terrific player that's the point.

He played every game with a 20 to 30 sr and would bash a bit at the end bringing it up to 75 and then get out when the gane was lost.

He did this multiple times from 2011 Mohali, 2012 England series, 2013 sa game, Wi CT, and many exploits in 2014 to 2015.

Most of the time he'd come in, Pakistan would be massively ahead of the RR, but thanks to Misbah's starts the RR would get out of hand and eventually gane would be over, Due to misbah's playing style wickets would fall at the other end frequently as batters were put under pressure thanks to Misbah. Moreover he'd also frequently stop doubles from being taken if a junior batter was on strike because he wanted to hog it. Many times sending the batter back.

Eventually he'd hit a few and his final stat sheet reads 43 avg 74 sr which makes you think he's some Bevan.

The thing is, from 2013-2015 the top order was crap, So Misbah frauded his way into soft 50+ scores and his fans like @Major Would dub him as a saviour and reliable batter who'd always come in and save the team when their was a collapse when his portfolio shows that it wasn't the case.

Sachin has also done this a few times. Sachin is an atg, infact I have maintained that he's no 1 in odi, and top 5 in test, but dont act like during his long career he doesn't have a few innings that totally suck or were selfish. That's not possible as even greats like pointing, kallis etc have some of those.

For example Sachin 194 in pakistan was a selfish stat pad, then his innings in 2012 against Bangladesh was another one which lost India the game.

It's also no coincidence that the only games he scores a 100 in the world cup 2011 led to a draw and a loss for india in group stages.

I'm not crapping on Sachin as he has many match winning innings and atg innings and he's a true great.

But Indian fans need to stop acting like he's a goat who never did any of this.

That isn't possible for anyone except bradman.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Wisden India didn't conclude anything. This was informed to you yesterday as well but looks like you are back with same topic for some more trolling.

When you do a public poll on something in facebook, Wisden India or anyone, it is not restricted to only Indians voting in it. There is no voter ID card required to vote in public poling in social media. You can also go and vote for Kashmir Banega Pakistan as Yes or can Rahul Gandhi become next Italian PM as No. However they don't mean anything.

All you guys need to know, Sachin the 2nd greatest batsman after Bradman and that is unanimously acknowledged by all cricket pundits including Sir Don himself. Any criticism about him will not be tolerated and we will defend at any cost.

Brother you are sounding like a congressi with hese allegations of vote rigging.

The facts are the facts in black and white. Wisden India has certified it.

 

[Hitman]

Anyone can get hurt on those days playing with an open helmet. Sachin even after that bloody nose given by 49 avg bowler Waqar went onto score 57 runs in the same innings. Looks like a failed attempt by you highlighting this innings



The reality is his partnership with Mongia against a high class bowling attack on 5th day is one of the greatest knocks ever played in Chennai. When Ganguly got out, India were 82-5 chasing 271 and it was guaranteed victory there for Pakistan. From there Sachin took the team almost home and when he got out only 17 runs needed. If other batsman can't touch the bat on ball how is it his fault and how is that a choke job?


Again you don't the full story. Sachin was said during lunch break, India will bat for 30 more mins and then will declare. However, at the insistence of Ganguly, Dravid declared before that 30 mins time zone as team management got paranoid they will not have enough time to bowl Pakistan out.


Sometimes batsmen can't feel if the ball has touched his bat or not. It happens even in this DRS era. Like how Fakhar Zaman walked off in Asia Cup 2018 match vs India, Kohli walked off against Amir in 2019 WC etc. It has nothing to do with the heat from the bowler (whatever it means)


Anyone can get hit on helmet, just like how Zaheer Khan floored Rashid Latif in 2003 WC.


Sure

"Awwww, mere se bowling nahin ho rahi hain".

Remember that?

 

[Rajdeep]

It is not Pakistan’s problem that Sachin didn’t play them between 1989 and 1999. We can only go by the matches that actually happened and not ponder over fantasy series. He could have scored a million runs for all we care, but in the matches that actually took place, he was nothing special.

An average of 42 is an abysmal failure for a batsman who is touted as the god of batting and the greatest to walk the earth. It is an abysmal failure for a batsman who is supposedly so good that it is blasphemy to compare him to other great Test batsmen with a 50+ average and 30+ centuries.

The fact is that Pakistan reduced him to a Rahane/Pujara level batsman in Test cricket and if other teams could bowl to him in Tests like Pakistan did, he would have been lost in history.

He was nothing special against Pakistan so there is no reason why Pakistani fans should be in awe of him.

Brother

But I suppose you have changed your point of view from 7th March until now, which is only fair as change is the only constant, or as they say

No bilateral cricket with India in the last 10 years is the best thing that has happened to the dignity of Pakistan cricket.

People don’t realize how big of a blessing it has been. Pakistan getting thrashed home and away every year across formats would have finished off the interest in Pakistan cricket.

Thankfully we don't have to play India in Test cricket

I would like to thank the Indian Government from saving the Pakistan cricket team from the misery, embarrassment and heartache of playing their team currently in Test cricket. Yes, it pains me to say it, but the matches would be one-sided, anti-climaxes which would show up the current Pakistan...

ppforum.pakpassion.net

 

[TheSultan]

Anyone can get hurt on those days playing with an open helmet. Sachin even after that bloody nose given by 49 avg bowler Waqar went onto score 57 runs in the same innings. Looks like a failed attempt by you highlighting this innings



The reality is his partnership with Mongia against a high class bowling attack on 5th day is one of the greatest knocks ever played in Chennai. When Ganguly got out, India were 82-5 chasing 271 and it was guaranteed victory there for Pakistan. From there Sachin took the team almost home and when he got out only 17 runs needed. If other batsman can't touch the bat on ball how is it his fault and how is that a choke job?


Again you don't the full story. Sachin was said during lunch break, India will bat for 30 more mins and then will declare. However, at the insistence of Ganguly, Dravid declared before that 30 mins time zone as team management got paranoid they will not have enough time to bowl Pakistan out.


Sometimes batsmen can't feel if the ball has touched his bat or not. It happens even in this DRS era. Like how Fakhar Zaman walked off in Asia Cup 2018 match vs India, Kohli walked off against Amir in 2019 WC etc. It has nothing to do with the heat from the bowler (whatever it means)


Anyone can get hit on helmet, just like how Zaheer Khan floored Rashid Latif in 2003 WC.


Sure

1. He did not make 57 in the same innings! He made 15 in the first innings - Waqar bloodied his nose and then bowled him out soon after. Can’t argue inexperience as it was Waqar’s debut too and he showed his calibre in the innings. Tendi was even shielded in the second innings by promoting Ravi shastri up the order

2. It’s a choke job because if you’re the one making runs you should finish the job. But if you don’t have the mental strength, you give up. If it was such a great innings, then why did the coach Gaekwad make a statement saying if he had his way he would have dropped sachin after that match?

3. What a convoluted explanation. Bottom line is the same, the team wa ted to declare, Tendulkar wanted to statpad. Team lost patience, team declared!

4. If he was a “walker” like some of the more dignified players like Lara, that would make sense. However, tendi was never a walker, he’s even been caught out in the early days of DRS (incidentally the main reason India were so against DRS for so many years). Tendi bottled it, plain and simple.

5. Anyone can get hit on the head. Sure, thanks for confirming is an anyone and not a someone. Unlucky for him Pakistan didn’t have a caught behind appeal before that, would have saved him from what he feared.

Don’t test with my knowledge. It’s not your fault, but next time bring someone else.

 

[Rajdeep]

He did not make 57 in the same innings! He made 15 in the first innings - Waqar bloodied his nose and then bowled him out soon after. Can’t argue inexperience as it was Waqar’s debut too and he showed his calibre in the innings. Tendi was even shielded in the second innings by promoting Ravi shastri up the order! This is schoolboy stuff. Do some research. I shouldn’t even entertain the rest of your post.

Okay fair enough it was in the 2nd innings but how did the bloody nose based on which you were mocking him helped Pakistan? Sachin scored 57 in second test and India managed to draw that Sialkot test match with that innings. If anything, a 16 year old batter facing Imran, Wasim, Waqar and Qadir batting with a broken nose and saving a test match for his country is worthy of multiple applause. Don't you think?

It’s a choke job because if you’re the one making runs you should finish the job. But if you don’t have the mental strength, you give up. If it was such a great innings, then why did the coach Gaekwad make a statement saying if he had his way he would have dropped sachin after that match?

Cricket is a team game, there is no such thing that if you are scoring runs you should finish the job. I just gave an example of 96 semi finals when Sachin scored 65 and then when he got out India folded for 120. Will you call it a choke job too as he didn't finish the game? Anyone that remembers that Chennai game would know India was done in that game when Ganguly got out at 82-5. If was only due to Sachin's brilliance that he took the team close batting with back pain but fell just 17 runs. Only a cricket illiterate will call it a choke job. Was Virat's Adelaide 2014 knock was choke job too in your opinion?

What a convoluted explanation. Bottom line is the same, the team wa ted to declare, Tendulkar wanted to statpad. Team lost patience, team declared!

This is not my explanation but mentioned by Tendulkar himself in his auto biography and Ganguly also admitted it in media. During the lunch break Indian management decided 30 more minutes batting but Ganguly asked Dravid to declare early as he was paranoid and didn't wanted to take any risk of winning the test series first time in Pakistani soil.

If he was a “walker” like some of the more dignified players like Lara, that would make sense. However, tendi was never a walker, he’s even been caught out in the early days of DRS (incidentally the main reason India were so against DRS for so many years). Tendi bottled it, plain and simple.

Why what made Lara more dignified than Tendulkar? I thought Dravid is the flavour of the month.

I just gave you couple of examples how many times players think they have nicked it but DRS shows otherwise. Like Kohli in 2019 WC, Zaman in 2018 Asia cup etc. If you come back with responses like 'Tendi bottled it, plain and simple.' then what is point of debating.

Anyone can get hit on the head. Sure, thanks for confirming is an anyone and not a someone. Unlucky for him Pakistan didn’t have a caught behind appeal before that, would have saved him from what he feared.

Dude what are you even talking about? I have no clue what this even mean. Did you just do a mike drop ( ) gesture after typing this?

Don’t test with my knowledge. It’s not your fault, but next time bring someone else.

Don't worry...I am alone enough. You are dealing with someone very different here.

 

[Technics 1210]

Anyway I don't even know why we are arguing. Wisden India concluded that Indians preferred Dravid.
Of course the Indian posters claim its an ISI conspiracy and it was actually Pakistanis who voted for Dravid.

Sachinsitas should have known better.

Former skipper Kapil Dev was chosen as the Wisden Indian Cricketer of the Century by an eminent jury of 35 cricketers, journalists and thinkers in a televised ceremony at Wembley Stadium - Sachin Tendulkar won the People's Choice Award, which was selected on the basis of a popular poll.

Proving the point, Tendulkar was bang average in the eyes of the professionals, but well overrated in the eyes of the public.

 

[mominsaigol]

Tendulkar due to longetivity is the best in odi and 2nd best in test. Their isnt any denying it because he has the best records, Runs and consistently achieved centuries and runs throughout his 24 year career.

And it's impressive because I've seen players like pointing and smith dwindle.

My only gripe with Indian fans is them overhyping. Sachin has goat innings but he has terrible ones and stat padding ones as well. The whole most complete batter and wisden quotes over and over is total bull.

His main point is longetivity, however many batter in certain eras have been superior to Sachin.

The only reason I rate Sachin higher is because it's very hypocritical to only look at one aspect of a player's career and use that as a metric.

Imo viv Richards is also one other batter who's superior but he just doesn't have the records to compete.

Regardless until a batter comes who has peak Steve Smith level skill in test followed by peak Pointing level skill in odi and they maintain that form throughout their entire career, Then Sachin remains at the top in odi and t20.

But yes peak Smith and peak lara and a few others are > peak Sachin but unfortunately they havent acquired that longetivoty to be considered superior.

 

[mominsaigol]

Tendulkar due to longetivity is the best in odi and 2nd best in test. Their isnt any denying it because he has the best records, Runs and consistently achieved centuries and runs throughout his 24 year career.

And it's impressive because I've seen players like pointing and smith dwindle.

My only gripe with Indian fans is them overhyping. Sachin has goat innings but he has terrible ones and stat padding ones as well. The whole most complete batter and wisden quotes over and over is total bull.

His main point is longetivity, however many batter in certain eras have been superior to Sachin.

The only reason I rate Sachin higher is because it's very hypocritical to only look at one aspect of a player's career and use that as a metric.

Imo viv Richards is also one other batter who's superior but he just doesn't have the records to compete.

Regardless until a batter comes who has peak Steve Smith level skill in test followed by peak Pointing level skill in odi and they maintain that form throughout their entire career, Then Sachin remains at the top in odi and t20.

But yes peak Smith and peak lara and a few others are > peak Sachin but unfortunately they havent acquired that longetivoty to be considered superior.

@DeadlyVenom unless you're laughing at my typo of accidentally saying t20 instead of test. I don't see what wrong in what I said.

Maybe next time kindly get into an argument with me then being salty thanks.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

@DeadlyVenom unless you're laughing at my typo of accidentally saying t20 instead of test. I don't see what wrong in what I said.

Maybe next time kindly get into an argument with me then being salty thanks.

I can see what you are doing.

You are promoting Sachinism by stealth.

You can't fool me. I've seen every trick in the book pulled by Sachinistas.

 

[mominsaigol]

I can see what you are doing.

You are promoting Sachinism by stealth.

You can't fool me. I've seen every trick in the book pulled by Sachinistas.

Mate, no offence, I'm actually not insulting or trying to be mean.


This sachinism and this illuminati and these folklore myths. You as well as Indian posters are way way too cringe at times.