Rahul Dravid or Javed Miandad?

[pratiktc]

Both are flawed tier 2 ATGs. Have to put Dravid marginally ahead though. Had greater impact across multiple series away from home.

Dravid against top 3 attacks (Aus/SA/Eng) of his era away:
Inns 77 runs 3166 Avg 45.9 100s/50s - 8/12

Javed against top 3 attacks(Aus/Eng/WI) away
Inns 64 runs 2412 Avg 37.7 100s/50s - 6/12

In Eng:
Dravid wipes floor with Javed. 2 superlative tours and almost 70 avg against Javeds 45 avg which is propped up by 2 big inns (260 and 153) on flat deck drawn games. Quality of attacks is comparable with Dravid probably facing better ones.

In Aus:
Dravid avgs 41 against Javed's 38 with both playing 16 tests.
More even contest. Both batsmen got one lottery ticket tour (Javed against Packer depleted Aus in '79 and Dravid against McWarne less Aus in '03-'04). Dravid took full toll and had one massive series to go with two poor series and a middling one.
Javed was mostly average on all tours, but still has a century against Lillee to boast about (Which Gavaskar never managed). Quality of attacks can be about par.

Verdict: Tie or marginal win for Dravid.

In WI/SA
Javed made 405 runs @33 in 7 tests vs WI
Dravid has 624 @29 in 11 tests vs SA

Dravid has an abysmal record in SA barring one quality inns (148) against Donald/Polly.
Javed has 2 clutch hundreds in almost series winning performance in '88. Although this was against level 2 west indies Wolfpack (Ambrose+Walsh+Patterson), this round is definitely Miandad's. Quality of attacks are not massively different. Windies would be somewhat ahead of SA though.

At home, I would rate both equally in terms of output/impact and ability to cash in against second level attacks to pad stats.

Overall: Dravid would be ahead.

 

[MMHS]

2 ATG batsmen for me.

Who would you say is the better batter?

[MENTION=139595]Ab Fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION]

In ODI, Javed is way ahead. Not only for the runs or stats, but the way he controlled the innings, chase and a weak batting line up was unparalleled.

In Test, I'll take Dravid by a whisker - his last ENG tour was outstanding.

 

[captain.hansolo]

One was a sore loser and a selfish grafter who benefited from biased umpires. Not once in the ten years that I watched Miamdad play did I ever see any glimpse of brilliance or anything beyond mediocre.

Anwar made Miandad look pedestrian when one examines Pakistani batsmen from the late 80s to 90s.

Watching Anwar was like watching a train that any moment now would transform into a juggernaut, whereas watching miandad was more like, well he is batting so meh...

Dravid any darn day of the week.

 

[big_gamer007]

Dravid at one point he was averaging 60+ after like 80-100 test matches..

 

[Lahorijat]

Miandad any day. Dravid rarely changed games and was was a liability for India

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Dravid at one point he was averaging 60+ after like 80-100 test matches..

Nah, that was Ponting. Dravid's highest average was 58.76 after 104 tests.

Highest career averages of batsmen post 100th test

1. Ponting - 60.00 (107 test)

2. Sangakkara - 58.95 (127 test)

3. Dravid - 58.76 (104 test)

4. Tendulkar - 58.46 (103 test)

5. Kallis - 58.21 (111 test)

All modern ATG batsmen in their peak had stats within hair's distance of each other basically. By the way, Lara's average peaked at 53.87 after 121 test due to being an opener (openers can't inflate average with not outs).

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

By the way, Lara's average peaked at 53.87 after 121 test due to being an opener

lolwhat

 

[BlackShadow]

Nah, that was Ponting. Dravid's highest average was 58.76 after 104 tests.

Highest career averages of batsmen post 100th test

1. Ponting - 60.00 (107 test)

2. Sangakkara - 58.95 (127 test)

3. Dravid - 58.76 (104 test)

4. Tendulkar - 58.46 (103 test)

5. Kallis - 58.21 (111 test)

All modern ATG batsmen in their peak had stats within hair's distance of each other basically. By the way, Lara's average peaked at 53.87 after 121 test due to being an opener (openers can't inflate average with not outs).

Lara's average was low because the peak of his career happened in the 90s. Tendulkar's average isn't 65 for the same reason.

Sanga, Dravid and Ponting had it way too easy compared to those two.

 

[emm-tee]

Dravid

 

[Bilal7]

Javed Miandad was the superior batsman in both tests and ODIs. Never averaged below 50 during his entire career and had a fantastic series against the greatest team of all time.

Those who saw cricket back then knows the exact reason for this. So does ex players like Steve Waugh.

You're thick if you think that Miandad got favourable umpiring at home with no consequences when he toured other countries. Especially the West Indies.

Miandad's home average would have been lower with neutral umpires but his away average would have been higher.

 

[Hitman]

Javed Miandad was the superior batsman in both tests and ODIs. Never averaged below 50 during his entire career and had a fantastic series against the greatest team of all time.

Rubbish. Holding, Garner and Roberts had all retired by then. It was Ambrose's debut series. And Marshall didn't even play the first Test where he scored a century. He averaged 29 odd against the West Indies.

 

[Hitman]

Miandad played 3 series in West Indies -

1. 1976/77 - Runs - 2; Ave - 1.50

2. 1987/88 - Runs - 282; Ave - 56.40 (Holding, Garner, Roberts has retired by then, Marshall didn't play the 1st Test where he scored a century)

3. 1992/93 - Runs - 120; Ave - 24

 

[Hitman]

Miandad played 3 series against West Indies in Pakistan -

1. 1980/81 - Runs- 230, Ave - 32.85

2. 1986/87 - Runs - 176; Ave - 29.33

3. 1990/91 - Runs - 23; Ave - 7.66

 

[Mirpur express]

As Pakistanis, we have to admit that Miandad failed against the true opposing team in his era- the West Indies. Had he not, I can see a case being made where he would be among the GOATs like Lara, Sachin, Don.
Dravid on the other hand was very impressive vs the eras greatest opposition, the Aussies which is why I would rate him better than Miandad in tests.
ODIs is a different story, I think Miandad can edge this one. All in All, I'd say Dravids slightly superior because Tests have more weight and he was the better test bat.

Miandad stats vs windies in 80’s Check b4 posting *

 

[Bilal7]

Rubbish. Holding, Garner and Roberts had all retired by then. It was Ambrose's debut series. And Marshall didn't even play the first Test where he scored a century. He averaged 29 odd against the West Indies.

First test: Miandad scores a series winning hundred against an attack of Ambrose, Walsh, Benjamin and Patterson (one of the fastest bowlers of all time)

Second test: Miandad scored a match-saving hundred in the FOURTH innings against an attack of Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh and Benjamin (bowling average of 27, and had he not played, Pakistan would have won the series rather than drawing it).

Third test: Miandad scores a gritty 30-odd in the third innings to help give his bowlers a chance at turning a legendary performance into the best performance of all time.

Anyone who is not drunk will see that this was a spectacular series for Miandad and better than anything Dravid achieved in his career.

Miandad played 3 series against West Indies in Pakistan -

1. 1980/81 - Runs- 230, Ave - 32.85

2. 1986/87 - Runs - 176; Ave - 29.33

3. 1990/91 - Runs - 23; Ave - 7.66

Guess the Pakistani umpiring wasn't as bad as you make it seem, eh?

 

[Bilal7]

Remove Dravid's 233 scored against Brad (bowling average: 40), Bichel (bowling average: 33) and a declining Gillespie and you have a player who failed against three of the best bowling sides of his time, Australia, South Africa and Sri Lanka.

Miandad > Dravid. I will also take Younis Khan over Rahul Dravid.

 

[Bilal7]

^ Away from the comfort of home pitches that is.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Remove Dravid's 233 scored against Brad (bowling average: 40), Bichel (bowling average: 33) and a declining Gillespie and you have a player who failed against three of the best bowling sides of his time, Australia, South Africa and Sri Lanka.

Miandad > Dravid. I will also take Younis Khan over Rahul Dravid.

miandad's away avg against the best attacks of his time is 9 points lower than dravid's .How'll you explain that.
Dravid also has a better overall awy avg.

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

dravid avgs 50+ in 7 different countries,
there's a difference between being good and being tremendously good.
Dravid was asia's best batsman in england.
Dravid>miandad in tests.in odis miandad was better.

 

[Savage]

In Odis,Miandad was better than Dravid by some margin

In Tests,Dravid was better than Miandad by some margin(but the difference is not that huge in Tests as it is in ODIs)

As a Test batsmen,Dravid is highly underrated in this forum.

Dravid is only batsmen from Asia who won the Man Of The Series Twice in England(*2),once in Australia and once in West Indies.

Outside Subcontinent against Non Minnows(ie Aus,SA,ENG,NZ and WI)

Dravid has scored 5443 runs with average of 52.33 along with 7 MOM and 4 MOS.

 

[Send1983]

In Odis,Miandad was better than Dravid by some margin

In Tests,Dravid was better than Miandad by some margin(but the difference is not that huge in Tests as it is in ODIs)

As a Test batsmen,Dravid is highly underrated in this forum.

Dravid is only batsmen from Asia who won the Man Of The Series Twice in England(*2),once in Australia and once in West Indies.

Outside Subcontinent against Non Minnows(ie Aus,SA,ENG,NZ and WI)

Dravid has scored 5443 runs with average of 52.33 along with 7 MOM and 4 MOS.

For some folks here, Dravid is better than Sachin but Miandad is better than Dravid.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Dravid in tests
Miandad in ODIs

Overall, Miandad who could do everything that Dravid could but had an additional gear which Dravid lacked.

 

[Ab Fan]

Remove Dravid's 233 scored against Brad (bowling average: 40), Bichel (bowling average: 33) and a declining Gillespie and you have a player who failed against three of the best bowling sides of his time, Australia, South Africa and Sri Lanka.

Miandad > Dravid. I will also take Younis Khan over Rahul Dravid.

Remove Cook's series in 2010 Australia against Australia's worst bowling attack of all-time and also remove Cook's series in 2012 India again against a newcomer Ashwin and Ojha and he will be nothing more than an Azhar Ali level batsmen.

Point is it is laughable to remove those great performances just like Dravid's performance in that series.

 

[Rahul1]

Remove Dravid's 233 scored against Brad (bowling average: 40), Bichel (bowling average: 33) and a declining Gillespie and you have a player who failed against three of the best bowling sides of his time, Australia, South Africa and Sri Lanka.

Miandad > Dravid. I will also take Younis Khan over Rahul Dravid.

So Sri Lanka were among the best bowling attacks during David's time?

 

[Rahul1]

Guess the Pakistani umpiring wasn't as bad as you make it seem, eh?

I just checked the stats. Miandad was dismissed 16 times by West Indies IN Pakistan and just as expected, not a single lbw decision. 12 times caught, 2 times bowled and 2 times run out. Proof? Here it is.


http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...e=results;type=batting;view=dismissal_summary

 

[Rahul1]

First test: Miandad scores a series winning hundred against an attack of Ambrose, Walsh, Benjamin and Patterson (one of the fastest bowlers of all time)

Second test: Miandad scored a match-saving hundred in the FOURTH innings against an attack of Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh and Benjamin (bowling average of 27, and had he not played, Pakistan would have won the series rather than drawing it).

Third test: Miandad scores a gritty 30-odd in the third innings to help give his bowlers a chance at turning a legendary performance into the best performance of all time.

Anyone who is not drunk will see that this was a spectacular series for Miandad and better than anything Dravid achieved in his career.



Guess the Pakistani umpiring wasn't as bad as you make it seem, eh?

Ambrose was playing his debut series and averaged 52 with the strike rate of 98. But don't let the facts get in the way.

Benjamin - Who?

I will also take Younis Khan over Rahul Dravid.

Sure. You have all the right in the world to do so. And the two other people in this entire universe.

 

[big_gamer007]

Nah, that was Ponting. Dravid's highest average was 58.76 after 104 tests.

Highest career averages of batsmen post 100th test

1. Ponting - 60.00 (107 test)

2. Sangakkara - 58.95 (127 test)

3. Dravid - 58.76 (104 test)

4. Tendulkar - 58.46 (103 test)

5. Kallis - 58.21 (111 test)

All modern ATG batsmen in their peak had stats within hair's distance of each other basically. By the way, Lara's average peaked at 53.87 after 121 test due to being an opener (openers can't inflate average with not outs).

Cool thanks for posting stats.. Either ways it just shows how good Dravid was being in such elite company.. He wasn’t at his best in South Africa but apart from that in all other countries he was great.. Definitely above Miandad.. Miandad was good himself but just behind the top 3 Indian batsmen (SRT, Gavaskar and Dravid).

 

[jadaja]

This is a tough one, Miandad is one of the true greats on the game and had this ability to scrape which not many batsmen have, Dravid also did great things.

I will give Miandad an edge because he could raise his game to suit the need which Dravid couldn't do especially in odis.

 

[Kroll]

I'll go with Miandad, if I can't decide based on performance, then those frog jumping antics will sway it for me.

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

Dravid was one of the best players of lateral movement I've ever seen. I haven't seen anyone else play innings of the sort he played in Wellington in 2002 against Shane Bond.

 

[SL_Fan]

50/50 for me a real tough one. Dravid wasn't as bad in ODIs as some make it out to be. He had his role in the side and played accordingly. Both top notch.

 

[Thejedi]

Remove Dravid's 233 scored against Brad (bowling average: 40), Bichel (bowling average: 33) and a declining Gillespie and you have a player who failed against three of the best bowling sides of his time, Australia, South Africa and Sri Lanka.

Miandad > Dravid. I will also take Younis Khan over Rahul Dravid.

He was great against England.

As for the OP, it’s Dravid because cricket was less and less professional as we go back in time as was claimed in barry richards thread.

 

[Bilal7]

miandad's away avg against the best attacks of his time is 9 points lower than dravid's .How'll you explain that.
Dravid also has a better overall awy avg.

)

I literally explained this in the post you quoted. Dravid's average is higher because he feasted on a couple of nobodies and Australia's back-up bowlers.

Miandad's performance in the 87-88 series is absolutely fantastic, even though his overall record against the Windies is admittedly mediocre.

Remove Cook's series in 2010 Australia against Australia's worst bowling attack of all-time and also remove Cook's series in 2012 India again against a newcomer Ashwin and Ojha and he will be nothing more than an Azhar Ali level batsmen.

Point is it is laughable to remove those great performances just like Dravid's performance in that series.

Uhhh, no. Cook's average in Australia is also inflated, just like Dravid's. These are not great innings, these are 'gimme' innings against weak bowling attacks.

Cook was fantastic in India, it makes no sense to downplay his performances just because Ashwin is a failure on anything that does not turn square.

He was great against England.

As for the OP, it’s Dravid because cricket was less and less professional as we go back in time as was claimed in barry richards thread.

No doubt about that. He was fantastic in England and his performance on his last tour there is legendary.

 

[Rahul1]

Nothing to say about post #264, 265 and 266? I can understand.

 

[Bilal7]

Dravid was one of the best players of lateral movement I've ever seen. I haven't seen anyone else play innings of the sort he played in Wellington in 2002 against Shane Bond.

Agreed. Bounce was his weakness which is strange because most Indian batsmen like bounce and hate lateral movement.

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

Agreed. Bounce was his weakness which is strange because most Indian batsmen like bounce and hate lateral movement.

True. And it was not even bouncers at neck height... he handled those wonderfully, his actual struggle was with bounce off a good length.

 

[Ab Fan]

)

I literally explained this in the post you quoted. Dravid's average is higher because he feasted on a couple of nobodies and Australia's back-up bowlers.

Miandad's performance in the 87-88 series is absolutely fantastic, even though his overall record against the Windies is admittedly mediocre.



Uhhh, no. Cook's average in Australia is also inflated, just like Dravid's. These are not great innings, these are 'gimme' innings against weak bowling attacks.

Cook was fantastic in India, it makes no sense to downplay his performances just because Ashwin is a failure on anything that does not turn square.



No doubt about that. He was fantastic in England and his performance on his last tour there is legendary.

That Ashwin was a kid. Not a serious deal at all back then. Ojha was the real deal in that series. India again had a nothing bowling attack.

I am not downplaying Cook here but just stating that it is absurd to remove out these performances which were historical and series defining as well.