Ravichandran Ashwin vs Muttiah Muralitharan - after 43 Tests

[Cricfan4eva]

This isn't a comparison thread. It is about Ashwin's chances to get close to Murali's tally of 800 wickets.

Ashwin's wicket taking rate is astonishing. He's raking up 5 wicket hauls/inns and 10 wicket hauls/match with ease and already has 7 MoS!

Not long ago he was considered to be a bowler who just relied on pitch, he changed that. He got better and is now picking up wickets on truer surfaces as well, all with just his guile and street smartness.

He's 30 and they say spinners like wine get finer with age, so his best period has probably just begun and has a good 4-5 years to add a bucket load of wickets to his tally. So IMO if anyone has a shot from current crop (there aren't many to begin with) to get close to Murali's tally of 800 wickets, its probably Ashwin.

After 43 tests

Ash

Wkts: 247
5w: 24
10w: 7
Av: 24
S/R: 49.8

Murali

Wkts: 210
5w: 16
10w: 2
Av: 26.6
S/R: 63

And so far he's doing great, obviously had a better start than Murali did. What's staggering is, Ashwin usually finds himself playing alongside 2 other spinners usually and still he's picking up major chunk of wickets.

 

[Buffet]

This isn't a comparison thread. It is about Ashwin's chances to get close to Murali's tally of 800 wickets.

How old was Murali when he played 43 tests? How old is Ashwin? That's a huge factor if you are going to talk about 800 wickets.

 

[Midwinter13992]

Ashwin is doing great right now...but i dont have confidence in him on the unsupporting pitches...

 

[Midwinter13992]

Ashwin seems to loose his confidence while playing on non friendly pitches...Murali bagged lots of wickets in England but i dont think Ashwin can manage half of those

 

[talha3]

Murali was 26. Ashwin is 30. At 30, Murali had 420 wickets @ 23.64, 34 5fers, 10 10fers.

/thread

 

[Buffet]

Murali was 26. Ashwin is 30. At 30, Murali had 420 wickets @ 23.64, 34 5fers, 10 10fers.

/thread

Thank you. 800 wickets are just not possible.

 

[Tusker]

This isn't a comparison thread. It is about Ashwin's chances to get close to Murali's tally of 800 wickets.

As others have pointed out ... the biggest factor is Age when comparing to Murali. But another factor is Fitness. To me Ashwin does not posses the fitness to last more than 5 yrs in Intl Cricket. I will be very happy if he ends with anywhere near 500 wkts.

And if he does that while maintaining his stunning S/R of under 50 he will definitely go down as the best spinner in the history of the game.

 

[Slog]

It remains to be seen how much Ashwin can improve because he's at the age where spinners are entering their peak

St the same point in his career Murali was still in developing phase

 

[Cricfan4eva]

Murali was 26. Ashwin is 30. At 30, Murali had 420 wickets @ 23.64, 34 5fers, 10 10fers.

/thread

Back then players didn't play the no. of games they do now a days. Ashwin is 30, assuming he has a good 6-7 years of cricket left. Thats another 70-80 tests.

Age is not such a huge factor, will he be able to remain fit to last till late 30s and at the same time be at the top of his game is the question.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

As others have pointed out ... the biggest factor is Age when comparing to Murali. But another factor is Fitness. To me Ashwin does not posses the fitness to last more than 5 yrs in Intl Cricket. I will be very happy if he ends with anywhere near 500 wkts.

And if he does that while maintaining his stunning S/R of under 50 he will definitely go down as the best spinner in the history of the game.

Fitness more than age will be a problem for Ashwin. I don't see age as an issue especially for a spinner. If he becomes even fitter who's to say he wont play on till he hits 40? But will he be fit, from the looks of it currently he definitely needs to work more on it and I am sure under Kohli, emphasis will be laid on it.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

It remains to be seen how much Ashwin can improve because he's at the age where spinners are entering their peak

St the same point in his career Murali was still in developing phase

Well Ashwin is entering his peak and he already has those amazing numbers so it can only get better right? Or if he could just maintain what he's doing currently, that'd still be fine.

How old was Murali when he played 43 tests? How old is Ashwin? That's a huge factor if you are going to talk about 800 wickets.

Again age isn't such as huge a factor for spinners as it is for batsmen generally. Ideally if Ashwin has to get close to the record, he'll need to retain good form for prolonged period, so 80-90 more tests, taking into factor injuries and sundries, that is probably 7-8 years more.

For a spinner to play on till 37-38 isnt that unfathomable, is it?

 

[Buffet]

Again age isn't such as huge a factor for spinners as it is for batsmen generally. Ideally if Ashwin has to get close to the record, he'll need to retain good form for prolonged period, so 80-90 more tests, taking into factor injuries and sundries, that is probably 7-8 years more.

For a spinner to play on till 37-38 isnt that unfathomable, is it?

India doesn't play as many tests as Eng. I think India averages around 10 tests each year in the last 10 years. Ashwin has to then play pretty much every single test without missing anything for the next 8-9 years. Then he has to keep himself in good form for entire period. I think you are asking for too much here. 5 wickets per tests for next 80 tests gets him additional 400 wickets. That will mean 650 wickets. Even that is a huge task.

 

[Mamoon]

I will be very surprised if Ashwin doesn't take 600 wickets. 800 is stretching it.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

I will be very surprised if Ashwin doesn't take 600 wickets. 800 is stretching it.

Well of course I didn't imply Ashwin is well on his way to get to 800 wickets, but if he were to get there he couldnt have asked for a better start to his test career.

Either things fall in place for him and he gets close to it or he just fades away in couple of years, anything can happen.

 

[Cricfan4eva]

India doesn't play as many tests as Eng. I think India averages around 10 tests each year in the last 10 years. Ashwin has to then play pretty much every single test without missing anything for the next 8-9 years. Then he has to keep himself in good form for entire period. I think you are asking for too much here. 5 wickets per tests for next 80 tests gets him additional 400 wickets. That will mean 650 wickets. Even that is a huge task.

India didn't used to play a lot of 4/5 test match series before either. So last 10 years average is a bit misleading.

We play 4 tests with SA and Aus now. and 5 with England. And a minimum of 3 with other sides at least.

 

[umer187]

His stats look better atm and his action looks much better too but I don't think he will play long enough to take 800 wickets

 

[TestMatch]

Murali wasn't a great bowler for most of the 90s, so it's a bit difficult comparing them; Murali peaked well after his first 43 tests.

 

[Tusker]

Well of course I didn't imply Ashwin is well on his way to get to 800 wickets, but if he were to get there he couldnt have asked for a better start to his test career.

Either things fall in place for him and he gets close to it or he just fades away in couple of years, anything can happen.

Ideally he should have started playing Test Cricket atleast 2 years earlier than he eventually did ... but to overcome 800 will be one heck of a achievement ... imagine having both Highest run getter and wkt taker record

 

[Justcrazy]

Ashwin will end with around 650 wickets

 

[jnaveen1980]

Murali is the only bowler who used wrist to bowl off spin lol he is a freak. Not fair to compare him with others. If you look at Mendis , he was projected to take 500 wickets by Bedi. He relied largely on subtle variations . Ashwin is somewhere between Mendis and Murali.

 

[Shutdown Corner]

Yeah I think Ashwin will take 600 wickets and break Kumble's record perhaps. 700 though seems a stretch. But you never know if he gets a lot of games vs ZIM, Ireland, and Afghanistan.

 

[Bilal7]

Let's see how many he takes outside Asia or even outside India.

 

[Sachin136]

Let's see how many he takes outside Asia or even outside India.

He has 21 wickets in 3 matches in SL and 17 wickets in 4 matches in WI (one of them mostly washed out).

 

[Aman]

He'll struggle to pick up wickets outside Asia.

His record tally will depend on how many games India plays in Asia.

 

[Bilal7]

He has 21 wickets in 3 matches in SL and 17 wickets in 4 matches in WI (one of them mostly washed out).

I'm well aware of his record in Sri Lanka and the West Indies, just like you are well aware of his record in Australia, England and South Africa.

 

[Sachin136]

I'm well aware of his record in Sri Lanka and the West Indies, just like you are well aware of his record in Australia, England and South Africa.

You are the one who said "or even outside India". As far as I know, WI and SL are both considered to be outside of India.

He played 2 innings in England, and picked up 3 wickets in one of that. That isn't a large sample size anyway, but it isn't a bad record by any means.

 

[Justcrazy]

If he is fit , he will get more than 600 wickets.

Also , with the bat may get more than 5 K runs .

 

[Zak_Fan]

Ashwin will end up second only to Murali and Warne. Amazing feat given he is also likely to end up an ATG allrounder.

 

[Bilal7]

You are the one who said "or even outside India". As far as I know, WI and SL are both considered to be outside of India.

He played 2 innings in England, and picked up 3 wickets in one of that. That isn't a large sample size anyway, but it isn't a bad record by any means.

You realize I was talking about the end of his career, right? Stop being so defensive about Ashwin, sheesh.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Under Kohli all bowlers are doing better. Kohli doesn't use bowlers defensively like Dhoni used to do. Also Kohli is keen on playing 5 bowlers unlike Dhoni who immediately dropped a bowler after 1 test win at Lords. He went after 3 draws. Even Ashwin mentioned about it.

 

[pillionrider]

Under Kohli all bowlers are doing better.

In Test cricket.

Dhoni has been a master in LOIs getting the best out of the most mediocre bowlers that ever walked around in an Indian team jersey.

 

[jnaveen1980]

In Test cricket.

Dhoni has been a master in LOIs getting the best out of the most mediocre bowlers that ever walked around in an Indian team jersey.

Yea.. i am talking about Test. But even in one dayer Gambhir used Ashwin very well against NZ. Dhoni relies on outbatting opposition rather htan outbowling them.

 

[Thivagar]

Under Kohli all bowlers are doing better. Kohli doesn't use bowlers defensively like Dhoni used to do. Also Kohli is keen on playing 5 bowlers unlike Dhoni who immediately dropped a bowler after 1 test win at Lords. He went after 3 draws. Even Ashwin mentioned about it.

In every format there should be 5 bowlers playing in the starting XL. If you want to win, you should have 5 bowlers. There is more chance of bowlers picking up wickets, there is more chance of a bowler having a good day and giving you MOM performance. Be glad there is no Angelo Mathews like captain in India, using 2 main bowlers and packing rest of the line up with 3-4 "all rounders" who can't bat nor bowl.

 

[Ind_Fan]

The absence of yadav, the spinner, hurt his bowling in this match, had an off day, mishra is useless.....

 

[soso_killer]

A lot will depend on how he performs away from home.
To get anywhere near 800/700 wickets one would have to be consistent almost everywhere.
Also the relative strength of his opposition will have a big say on his numbers

 

[Buffet]

A lot will depend on how he performs away from home.
To get anywhere near 800/700 wickets one would have to be consistent almost everywhere.
Also the relative strength of his opposition will have a big say on his numbers

Even for 650 he has to play extremely well for a very long time. That's another 400 wickets on top of what he has gotten right now. 800 is just too much based on his age even if you assume that he will take decent number of wickets when playing in Eng, Aus, NZ, Eng etc.