Adijazz1706
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2015
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Always thought he was a bit of an idiot. This just confirms it. Khudgarzi ki hadd hoti hai yaar! 

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Palestinians are unable to do anything since they live under occupation. Anything that comes in and goes out goes through IDF. They determine the fate. You should watch this documentary called 'Promises'. Great movie made by an American Jew. Should be available on YouTube...but is old now.
Interestingly, in 2005 Pakistan accepted Israeli aid following a devastating earthquake.
And it doesn't have to be one or the other. Our foreign policy has always been able to reap dividends from both factions - be it the US and Soviet Union, the Arabs or Israel, France or Japan, etc.
I'm sure there are many other countries who do it like us too.
And that is the difference between the opportunist India and the principled Pakistan. India would move towards anyone who can benefit them in the short term. Pakistan believes in honoring friendship.
And that is the difference between the opportunist India and the principled Pakistan. India would move towards anyone who can benefit them in the short term. Pakistan believes in honoring friendship.
Amen. Friendship is for wimps, especially if it's with some nobody Palestinians.
Useless because theyve been made that way, they dont have control of anything their own land, borders or anythingAnother nifty little thing that sums it up. Pakistan suffered another earthquake recently. Between Israel and Palestine, it is the former who have the ability to offer aid even against all odds of Pakistan not recognizing the state in the first place.
What can Palestine do? Exactly, they're useless.
Well, whatever the reason they're useless to have as an ally. If they can get themselves out of their hole (how they do it - not our problem) and prove to be the pioneers of some sort in manufacturing or services or IT or whatever, then we'll have a look. No? Then Israel appears far more progressive and good to have from an economic standpoint in the meantime.
And it doesn't have to be one or the other. Our foreign policy has always been able to reap dividends from both factions - be it the US and Soviet Union, the Arabs or Israel, France or Japan, etc.
I'm sure there are many other countries who do it like us too.
If Turkey and Jordan can have full diplomatic relations with Israel, I don't see why Pakistan cannot. This is particularly when Pakistan claims to be, and actually is, a more liberal Islamic state than the likes of Saudi and Iran.
The problem seems to be that Pakistan does not want to ruffle the feathers of the likes of Saudi Arabia by establishing any kind of non-hostile relationship with Israel.
The problem seems to be that Pakistan does not want to ruffle the feathers of the likes of Saudi Arabia by establishing any kind of non-hostile relationship with Israel.
No ones saying they can't
No one is saying they can't reestablish relations with the Taliban either if they reclaim power in Afghanistan
If Israel helps Pakistan against India then I'm sure nawaz will be on the plane tomorrow
Talibans killed 50000 pakistanis, what did Israel ever do to Pakistan?
Many Pakistanis like to see the Pakistan Army as the defender of Islam. To recognise Israel would receive a huge backlash in Pakistan and by overseas Pakistanis. Especially Brit Paks who are the main group who highlights the plight of the Palestinians and set up fund raisers etc. The feeling of solidarity with Palestinians is strong amongst British Pakistanis. Morally it would be wrong for Pakistan to trade and engage in relations with Israel. Pragmatically it would be a great investment opportunity for Pakistan. But the emotional connection with Palestine and Islamic Brotherhood is too strong.If Turkey and Jordan can have full diplomatic relations with Israel, I don't see why Pakistan cannot. This is particularly when Pakistan claims to be, and actually is, a more liberal Islamic state than the likes of Saudi and Iran.
The problem seems to be that Pakistan does not want to ruffle the feathers of the likes of Saudi Arabia by establishing any kind of non-hostile relationship with Israel.
There are Indian operations in Pakistan
And Indian Muslim militants called the ikhwan who kill other Muslims
Very similar to the creation of Hamas by the Israeli state
Also the attack in Mumbai specifically targeted Jews which could have caused this Hindu Israel friendship with Intel trading and weapons provided for by Israel
To put in simple terms Israel has took Indian intelligence and put in a level far above what it was
Yes they have not targeted Pakistan, you are right and there are good jews who only want Israel to be accepted and then bad Jews, who kill kids on beaches and don't let people pray at al Aqua
Pakistan has far too much on its own plate in terms of balochistan and the ttp
If Israel can help Pakistan then I'm sure it will be welcomed
That's the thing though, Israel has nothing to do with India besides the fact that Pakistan is the enemy of both countries. This axis wouldn't exist if Israel and Pakistan had good relations. So, if you argue that India kills muslims in Pakistan and India then the opposition to Israel only accentuates those deaths.
India was pro Palestian during the Cold War , very pro Arafat and pro plo
India has changed somewhat since then
It is more a post Mumbai shift than a reaction to any unrecognition from Pakistan, in terms of Israel training and working with India
The shift is from India, not Israel. Israel had always been willing to do it (and to oppose Pakistan's nuclear program) due to Pakistan's inimity to them.
Pakistan haven't ever backed Israeli opposition the same way India backed Arafat
It could be argued Pakistan are pro Sisi and therefore anti Hamas which again does not show any direct hostility
It all stems from Mumbai
It's not about backing or not, there is a very real fear in israeli psyche that Pakistan could use its nuclear arsenal against them and Pakistani opposition to Israel has done nothing to disparage that fear.
Not quite, if Pakistan launched a nuke against Israel that would be the end of Pakistan so they wouldn't be crazy enough to do such a thing. However there would be legit fears that Pakistan's nuke technology could get into the hands of Israel's enemies....
Why Pakistan should recognise Israel
By Noman Sajjad Published: November 16, 2015
Sometimes it becomes inexorable and practical to change the paradigms, let the past stay in the past and forget about historical incidents in order to open doors that lead to peace, prosperity and harmony.
History documents that Pakistan and Israel are never directly involved in hostility or disputes with each other. However, in showing solidarity with Arab countries and in support of Palestine, Pakistan has categorically refused to recognise Israel as an independent state since its inception. Our history books and widespread stereotypes have played a major role in filling our hearts and minds with hatred against Israel.
Considering the cost-benefit analysis and without abandoning support for the Palestinians, here are some of the reasons to accord recognition to Israel:
1. To promote regional peace, foster inter-ethnic and interfaith harmony with understanding.
2. The strategic location of Pakistan and geographical location of Israel can definitely complement one another well.
3. To lessen the pressure of difficult neighbours. Such an increase in the list of allies can do wonders.
4. To better Pakistan’s image as a friendly and moderate Islamic state.
5. To boost the economy by building trade relations, importing foodstuffs, cotton, etc., since Israel offers a huge market, and benefiting with the Israeli export of military and agricultural technology.
6. To put an end to hypocrisy, because after devastating wars with India and with the Kashmir issue still unsettled even after scores of years, India was not only accepted as a state but voted as the “most favoured nation”. On the other side, Pakistan buys ammunition from Israel, lets Israeli products dominate its market and yet is hesitant to accept Israel as a free state. (Robert Fisk highlights the arm deals in between Pakistan and Israel in his book The Great War for Civilisation.)
7. Pakistan-Israel ties could be an advantageous move as Israel has great influence on the United States and India.
8. Opening academic and cultural exchange opportunities for students.
9. Allowing Muslim and Christian Pakistanis to visit their holy places in Israel.
10. Jews, Muslims and Christians share some commonalities in their faith, which can definitely promote interfaith harmony.
11. By establishing ties, Pakistan can influence Israel with regard to resolving the Kashmir issue and can possibly play a part in normalising relations between Palestine and Israel.
12. Lastly, policies are not decoration pieces. They are meant to change with the growing needs and for the protection of national interests and national security.
Pakistan has not accorded Israel recognition since its inception due to the Palestine issue, and fears that India-Israel connections are working against its security, ultimately affecting the sub-continental balance of power. However, there is dire need to wash out all the stereotypes which have existed in our belief system since our inception.
Firstly, we need to realise that it is not about Jews versus Muslims. It is more Israel versus Palestine, mainly over land disputes. There are nearly 400,000 Palestinian Christians among the sufferers in disputed lands.
Secondly, we can no longer blame the US, India and Israel for anything and everything that happens in our country.
Thirdly, Arab countries enjoy good relations with Israel. Even Turkey – one of our supporters – has good diplomatic relations with Israel. Furthermore, Pakistan extended its full support to some of the Arab countries against Israel, but Pakistan was hardly backed by Saddam Hussein, Yasser Arafat and many other Muslim leaders when Pakistan was in need of support.
Rationally, is there any reason not to have diplomatic relations with Israel? The need of the hour is to realise that Israel didn’t vanish from the map because Pakistan decided not to recognise it. On the other hand, Pakistan is getting nothing out of this rigid stance.
Our own country is riddled with humongous problems and disputes that need to be addressed before we point fingers at Israel’s intrusion into the Palestinian land.
Pakistan must not only reassess the realities on the ground, but needs to readjust its diplomatic stance. Logical reasoning, a rational attitude and political maturity need to replace the emotional stance, aggressive slogans and baseless rhetoric. Making such changes democratically will be an uphill task, because foreign policy cannot be formed without consideration for public opinion. Education and balanced media can play major role in deeper understanding of such sensitive issues, issues that should be discussed in parliament, not in roadside restaurants and streets corners.
On humanitarian basis and not on religious basis, I would hold this step until Israel stops committing atrocities towrads Palestine and accepts Palistine state. After that, I would have no problem in recognizing Israel, which is a reality and we have to accept it. Stop fighting other's war, but support the people facing cruel atrocities.
Pakistan shouldn't have relations with Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey as long as it supports ISIS.
Fixed.
I wonder how Pakistani's feel about this today. Even if we recognize Israel, are the Arab states going to launch a boycott and embargo against us?
Which world do you live in? Even now in 2017 i see Pakistani TV channels use the words Hindus and Jews as pejorative words and this is the elite and educated people, you will get civil war by doing this, better to forget about having any relations with Israel.
I believe in the Sir Syed school of thought "If you can't beat them, join them", "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer".
Yet again Musharraf showing what a great leader and visionary he was (apart from the blip at the end of his rule).
Pakistan needs to recognise Israel and start trade with them. The Arabs are not thinking of "one ummah" and boycotting India for Kashmir issue. Pakistan should return the favour by putting its own interests first.
Yet again Musharraf showing what a great leader and visionary he was (apart from the blip at the end of his rule).
Pakistan needs to recognise Israel and start trade with them. The Arabs are not thinking of "one ummah" and boycotting India for Kashmir issue. Pakistan should return the favour by putting its own interests first.
I wonder what will happen in Pakistan if Pak recognizes Israel and establishes relations with it. Will Pak Awam stay quite?
India plays a smart game by being a friend of both Israel and Palestinians.
All good and well in wanting relations with Israel but given the current state of Pakistan I'm pretty certain they don't want relations with us. There was once an interest from the Israelis but it disappeared after the Soviet war and the rise in extremism. Israel has no desire to have relations with any hard-line Muslim country...maybe Saudi but that's only because of Iran.
Yeah Mush the great leader who did Kargil and then pushed off democratically elected leader to become a military dictator, will you in J&K prefer that Indian Chief of Army pushes off Indian PM and assumes control ??
And the idea about Pakistan recognising and trading with Israel is even more absurd, it will lead to civil war while you stay in Jammu and Kashmir or some other state of India. Hindu and Jews are still used as pejorative words on Pakistani TV channels by educated and rich anchors, this is the current environment and you want to just explode the situation and have fun from far away i guess.
All good and well in wanting relations with Israel but given the current state of Pakistan I'm pretty certain they don't want relations with us. There was once an interest from the Israelis but it disappeared after the Soviet war and the rise in extremism. Israel has no desire to have relations with any hard-line Muslim country...maybe Saudi but that's only because of Iran.
The funny part is that Pakistan has a history of plenty of unofficial meetings exchanges with the Israeli's, the ISI and the Mossad frequently exchange intelligence information with each other.
If Pakistan offers recognition to Israel, they will grab it with both hands. It only makes them stronger, especially recognition from a muslim nuclear power. The Zionists arent emotional idiots like us muslims.
They are not idiots and that's why where they are now it doesn't matter to them if Muslims accept them or not. The Arab league (constituted of countries that once fought with Israel) proposed a deal where all Muslim countries would accept Israel in return for the 1947 borders and they rejected it.
Israel has moved on and the Muslim world doesn't matter to it, except maybe Iran.
Well they rejected it initially because the circumstances werent that good that time given the passover massacre had taken place in Israel. They also argued that if the Arab league's proposal was accepted, the UN resolutions of bilateral negotiations would take a back seat. However the same Arab league and Israel have better relations when Israel accepted their proposals with some disagreements in 2007 and 2009. Ofcourse Israel is paranoid, it will take time for them to completely trust any muslim nation. Shouldnt matter to Pakistan because their stand against Israel is pointless. Atleast a step in good relations would yield something good.
True, but they're not dying for our recognition. They've already neutralized any threat from Muslim countries other than Iran. I don't think they'd grab on to an opportunity to be recognized by us, yet. Who knows what the future is like though.
Previously yes, but I don't think that's been the case in the last 10 years. Under Mush there was more collaboration but since then it's gone down hill fast. Israel is a paranoid nation and it would take a lot to build a relationship that includes trade and tourism with Pakistan. Just look at their current relations with a modern secular Turkey..it's a see-saw despite both wanting it to be better. Israelis stopped traveling there 5 years ago.
I wonder how Pakistani's feel about this today. Even if we recognize Israel, are the Arab states going to launch a boycott and embargo against us?
Great to see all liberals wanting to form relations with the most evil people on Earth. Legitally; we have become such a beghairat nation. We need to look at ourselves and fix what's wrong as oppose to now running into Israels lap.
I have read plenty of books and the amount of secretive stuff that goes on in the background is shocking. The Pakistani army has trained the Arab armies of Egypt, Jordan and the Israeli's were very impressed with the performance of Pakistani trained pilots in the 73 wars.
During the USSR millitary adventure in Pakistan, the Israeli's and the ISI cooperated together to funnel money, arms and to train the gureilla fighters of Afghanistan.
The ISI intercepted intelligence information about a planned terrorist attack on the Israeli embassy in India and passed the information on to Mossad. Similarly the ISI intercepted information on planned terrorist attacks in Israel and passed it on to the Mossad via CIA.
Israel in 1981 had destroyed Iraq's Nuclear facility in Osirik. They were planning to do the same to Kahuta in 1998 with Indian help but to their shock and horror discovered at the last minute that the Pakistani Air Force was ready and fully prepared to counter any attack on its nuclear facilities. Islamabad even sent a message to the Israeli's that Pakistan was no Iraq and any attack on Pakistan's nuclear facilities will be met with a reciprocal attack on Tel Aviv and on Israel's nuclear facility at Dimona.
You're right but this is all from pre 2000s which is my point. I think the last time they must've shared any intel with each other was during Mush era but nothing after 2008 and the Mumbai attacks. Israelis were also targeted and killed. Many Israelis still remember Pakistan only for that incident.
So do you think 2008 Mumbai attack have killed any possibility of Israel-Pakistan relationship? I never until now view it that way, even though Jews were also targetted.
You're right but this is all from pre 2000s which is my point. I think the last time they must've shared any intel with each other was during Mush era but nothing after 2008 and the Mumbai attacks. Israelis were also targeted and killed. Many Israelis still remember Pakistan only for that incident.
If you are stating that Israel are the 'most evil people on earth' because of the number of Palestinians they have killed, where does that leave the US of A?
Great to see all liberals wanting to form relations with the most evil people on Earth. Legitally; we have become such a beghairat nation. We need to look at ourselves and fix what's wrong as oppose to now running into Israels lap.
Stop asking me stupid questions to indirectly support Israel.
Well 70 years of ignoring them has surely helped the Palestinians hasn't it?
Either declare open war against them and destroy them once and for all (not possible since Israel is US's poodle)
Declaring open war and destroying Israel, are you delusional?? Israel is a nuclear armed state and their nuclear doctrine is even more dangerous than Islamic Republic of Pakistan, it is the "Samson Option", The entire Islamic world will get the nuclear holocaust including the holy spots and not just the attacking Islamic country.
If you had continued reading you would have had your answer.
Well 70 years of ignoring them has surely helped the Palestinians hasn't it?
Either declare open war against them and destroy them once and for all (not possible since Israel is US's poodle)
Or form basic relations with them so that they come on the negotiating table, gain leverage and force them either through diplomacy or economic measures (Pakistan's economic potential is several times higher than Israel) to take a softer stance on the Palestinians, relax restrictions on movement and reduce armed forces in occupied territory.
To me option B seems a whole lot more plausible.
Pakistan no longer gains anything from isolating Israel anymore. The Arab world is happy to have ties with them now, and the Arab world isn't severing ties with India over Kashmir either. To top it off, Iran has turned into an Indian puppet, making it impossible for Pakistan to maintain a balance between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Opening diplomatic ties with Israel is far more beneficial for Pakistan than trying to appease a backstabbing and treacherous Iran.
In any case, having no diplomatic ties with Israel hasn't really even helped the Palestinians in any way. Maybe opening ties with them would allow us and other nations to bring them to the table and negotiate.
Pakistan no longer gains anything from isolating Israel anymore. The Arab world is happy to have ties with them now, and the Arab world isn't severing ties with India over Kashmir either. To top it off, Iran has turned into an Indian puppet, making it impossible for Pakistan to maintain a balance between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Opening diplomatic ties with Israel is far more beneficial for Pakistan than trying to appease a backstabbing and treacherous Iran.
In any case, having no diplomatic ties with Israel hasn't really even helped the Palestinians in any way. Maybe opening ties with them would allow us and other nations to bring them to the table and negotiate.
I think it is a realist solution that Pakistan develops ties with Israel. As a muslim i would find it a really hard pill to swallow but unfortunately this is an era of nationalism and Arab nationalists arent doing Pakistan any favours by having close ties with India. Saudi king even defended treatment of Uyghurs the other day which tells you what a joke the idea of muslim unity has become.
However, i think Pakistan somehow needs to balance its relations with Iran because Pakistan has a huge population of Shia muslims which cannot be ignored.
Always was a bit of an idiot, this Musharraf. Pakistan should further strengthen its ties with OIC nations, like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UAE, etc. Israel is an oppressor and does not deserve to be given any respect as long as it continues its colonialist actions.
What can Israel offer Pakistan anyway? An action-plan to take over Occupied- Kashmir?
On one hand you want justice for Kashmiris, on the other you want Pakistan to deny any justice to the Palestinians. What gives?
On one hand you want justice for Kashmiris, on the other you want Pakistan to deny any justice to the Palestinians. What gives?