Relations with Israel could help Pakistan, says former president Musharraf

[Adijazz1706]

Always thought he was a bit of an idiot. This just confirms it. Khudgarzi ki hadd hoti hai yaar!

 

[endymion248]

Pakistan's staunch opposition to Israel has always been a big diplomatic dead-weight, especially when trying to get military and civil nuclear capabilities from the west. I don't think that there is any government in the world that could afford to object to a warming of relations between Pakistan and Israel besides Iran (they'll get over it), India (good) and Palestinians (who cares?).

 

[Varun]

Palestinians are unable to do anything since they live under occupation. Anything that comes in and goes out goes through IDF. They determine the fate. You should watch this documentary called 'Promises'. Great movie made by an American Jew. Should be available on YouTube...but is old now.

Well, whatever the reason they're useless to have as an ally. If they can get themselves out of their hole (how they do it - not our problem) and prove to be the pioneers of some sort in manufacturing or services or IT or whatever, then we'll have a look. No? Then Israel appears far more progressive and good to have from an economic standpoint in the meantime.

 

[Varun]

Interestingly, in 2005 Pakistan accepted Israeli aid following a devastating earthquake.

Another nifty little thing that sums it up. Pakistan suffered another earthquake recently. Between Israel and Palestine, it is the former who have the ability to offer aid even against all odds of Pakistan not recognizing the state in the first place.

What can Palestine do? Exactly, they're useless.

 

[Varun]

And it doesn't have to be one or the other. Our foreign policy has always been able to reap dividends from both factions - be it the US and Soviet Union, the Arabs or Israel, France or Japan, etc.

I'm sure there are many other countries who do it like us too.

 

[CricketCartoons]

And it doesn't have to be one or the other. Our foreign policy has always been able to reap dividends from both factions - be it the US and Soviet Union, the Arabs or Israel, France or Japan, etc.

I'm sure there are many other countries who do it like us too.

And that is the difference between the opportunist India and the principled Pakistan. India would move towards anyone who can benefit them in the short term. Pakistan believes in honoring friendship.

 

[street cricketer]

And that is the difference between the opportunist India and the principled Pakistan. India would move towards anyone who can benefit them in the short term. Pakistan believes in honoring friendship.

Everything is about opportunism in politics CC bhai Take Amreeka as an example!

 

[Varun]

And that is the difference between the opportunist India and the principled Pakistan. India would move towards anyone who can benefit them in the short term. Pakistan believes in honoring friendship.

Amen. Friendship is for wimps, especially if it's with some nobody Palestinians.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Amen. Friendship is for wimps, especially if it's with some nobody Palestinians.

Sucking up to power is for lapdogs. Wagging their tail to Russia and then to USA, and trying to please as many masters who can throw a bone at them.

 

[Zaz]

Another nifty little thing that sums it up. Pakistan suffered another earthquake recently. Between Israel and Palestine, it is the former who have the ability to offer aid even against all odds of Pakistan not recognizing the state in the first place.

What can Palestine do? Exactly, they're useless.

Useless because theyve been made that way, they dont have control of anything their own land, borders or anything

Do you even think or just spout nonsense all the time?

 

[sshakir411]

Well, whatever the reason they're useless to have as an ally. If they can get themselves out of their hole (how they do it - not our problem) and prove to be the pioneers of some sort in manufacturing or services or IT or whatever, then we'll have a look. No? Then Israel appears far more progressive and good to have from an economic standpoint in the meantime.

well you should read up more on the situation. Watching movies is also another way, it captures more than words. Seems like you might not have a clear picture of how things work in the West Bank or Gaza. I don't blame you since it doesn't have any relevance to your situation but if you want to know why Muslims take this issue so seriously. There's tons of good non biased work done on the topic.

 

[Cracket]

I know its against pragmatic advice, but its absolutely awful how the world is turning a blind eye towards Palestinians. I do admire Pakistan for their policies against Israel and really consider India's policies here as sell outs and suckers, but our people are benefiting from the alliance. If your country can be much better off with Israel's "friendship" then go for it. The Palestinians have been abandoned by their own people.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

And it doesn't have to be one or the other. Our foreign policy has always been able to reap dividends from both factions - be it the US and Soviet Union, the Arabs or Israel, France or Japan, etc.

I'm sure there are many other countries who do it like us too.

I was going to say Modi was very very nice and appreciative about Islam on his visit to the Middle East
Indian films now have a routine dance in a Dubai shopping mall while Arab scarves are routinely worn by Indian actors in films
India even refused Iran to shoot their recent film about the prophet pbuh in India

Getting back to the point of yours which is that idealism is nothing and that pragmatism is everything explains how Modi has gone from an ideological right wing hawk who used to sell tea to a business tycoon who has diamonds encrusted into his shalwar kameez

I do sound like a left wing socialist like those South Americans who took in gitmo inmates and offer to house Palestinians but if all it takes for people to accept nutjobs is their sycophantism whatever their ideology it shows why Modi is the pm of India and also why Wall Street supported hitler

 

[gani999]

If Turkey and Jordan can have full diplomatic relations with Israel, I don't see why Pakistan cannot. This is particularly when Pakistan claims to be, and actually is, a more liberal Islamic state than the likes of Saudi and Iran.

The problem seems to be that Pakistan does not want to ruffle the feathers of the likes of Saudi Arabia by establishing any kind of non-hostile relationship with Israel.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

If Turkey and Jordan can have full diplomatic relations with Israel, I don't see why Pakistan cannot. This is particularly when Pakistan claims to be, and actually is, a more liberal Islamic state than the likes of Saudi and Iran.

The problem seems to be that Pakistan does not want to ruffle the feathers of the likes of Saudi Arabia by establishing any kind of non-hostile relationship with Israel.

No ones saying they can't

No one is saying they can't reestablish relations with the Taliban either if they reclaim power in Afghanistan

If Israel helps Pakistan against India then I'm sure nawaz will be on the plane tomorrow

 

[Markhor]

The problem seems to be that Pakistan does not want to ruffle the feathers of the likes of Saudi Arabia by establishing any kind of non-hostile relationship with Israel.

But the Saudis biggest ally in the region other than their fellow GCC countries is Israel. They may not have formal diplomatic relations but they agree on many issues such as Iran and its nuclear programme, and as Wikileaks showed the Saudis were even more hawkish on Iran than Israel. Prince Waleed bin Talal's comments this week was all about strengthening the Saudi-Israel alliance against Iran.

From a pragmatic view sure Pakistan could benefit from bilateral relations with Israel. But practically given the anti-Israel sentiments, and to a lesser extent the anti-semitism in Pakistan (remember the Jewish lobby comments directed at Imran Khan), its not possible at this time and any Prime Minister doing so would get a massive backlash.

The only way ties are restored is when there's a two state solution in which case there'd no longer be any reason to give Israel the cold shoulder.

 

[endymion248]

No ones saying they can't

No one is saying they can't reestablish relations with the Taliban either if they reclaim power in Afghanistan

If Israel helps Pakistan against India then I'm sure nawaz will be on the plane tomorrow

Talibans killed 50000 pakistanis, what did Israel ever do to Pakistan?

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Talibans killed 50000 pakistanis, what did Israel ever do to Pakistan?

There are Indian operations in Pakistan
And Indian Muslim militants called the ikhwan who kill other Muslims

Very similar to the creation of Hamas by the Israeli state

Also the attack in Mumbai specifically targeted Jews which could have caused this Hindu Israel friendship with Intel trading and weapons provided for by Israel

To put in simple terms Israel has took Indian intelligence and put in a level far above what it was



Yes they have not targeted Pakistan, you are right and there are good jews who only want Israel to be accepted and then bad Jews, who kill kids on beaches and don't let people pray at al Aqua


Pakistan has far too much on its own plate in terms of balochistan and the ttp
If Israel can help Pakistan then I'm sure it will be welcomed

 

[Adil_94]

If Turkey and Jordan can have full diplomatic relations with Israel, I don't see why Pakistan cannot. This is particularly when Pakistan claims to be, and actually is, a more liberal Islamic state than the likes of Saudi and Iran.

The problem seems to be that Pakistan does not want to ruffle the feathers of the likes of Saudi Arabia by establishing any kind of non-hostile relationship with Israel.

Many Pakistanis like to see the Pakistan Army as the defender of Islam. To recognise Israel would receive a huge backlash in Pakistan and by overseas Pakistanis. Especially Brit Paks who are the main group who highlights the plight of the Palestinians and set up fund raisers etc. The feeling of solidarity with Palestinians is strong amongst British Pakistanis. Morally it would be wrong for Pakistan to trade and engage in relations with Israel. Pragmatically it would be a great investment opportunity for Pakistan. But the emotional connection with Palestine and Islamic Brotherhood is too strong.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[endymion248]

There are Indian operations in Pakistan
And Indian Muslim militants called the ikhwan who kill other Muslims

Very similar to the creation of Hamas by the Israeli state

Also the attack in Mumbai specifically targeted Jews which could have caused this Hindu Israel friendship with Intel trading and weapons provided for by Israel

To put in simple terms Israel has took Indian intelligence and put in a level far above what it was



Yes they have not targeted Pakistan, you are right and there are good jews who only want Israel to be accepted and then bad Jews, who kill kids on beaches and don't let people pray at al Aqua


Pakistan has far too much on its own plate in terms of balochistan and the ttp
If Israel can help Pakistan then I'm sure it will be welcomed

That's the thing though, Israel has nothing to do with India besides the fact that Pakistan is the enemy of both countries. This axis wouldn't exist if Israel and Pakistan had good relations. So, if you argue that India kills muslims in Pakistan and India then the opposition to Israel only accentuates those deaths.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

That's the thing though, Israel has nothing to do with India besides the fact that Pakistan is the enemy of both countries. This axis wouldn't exist if Israel and Pakistan had good relations. So, if you argue that India kills muslims in Pakistan and India then the opposition to Israel only accentuates those deaths.

India was pro Palestian during the Cold War , very pro Arafat and pro plo
India has changed somewhat since then

It is more a post Mumbai shift than a reaction to any unrecognition from Pakistan, in terms of Israel training and working with India

 

[endymion248]

India was pro Palestian during the Cold War , very pro Arafat and pro plo
India has changed somewhat since then

It is more a post Mumbai shift than a reaction to any unrecognition from Pakistan, in terms of Israel training and working with India

The shift is from India, not Israel. Israel had always been willing to do it (and to oppose Pakistan's nuclear program) due to Pakistan's inimity to them.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

The shift is from India, not Israel. Israel had always been willing to do it (and to oppose Pakistan's nuclear program) due to Pakistan's inimity to them.

Pakistan haven't ever backed Israeli opposition the same way India backed Arafat

It could be argued Pakistan are pro Sisi and therefore anti Hamas which again does not show any direct hostility
It all stems from Mumbai

 

[endymion248]

Pakistan haven't ever backed Israeli opposition the same way India backed Arafat

It could be argued Pakistan are pro Sisi and therefore anti Hamas which again does not show any direct hostility
It all stems from Mumbai

It's not about backing or not, there is a very real fear in israeli psyche that Pakistan could use its nuclear arsenal against them and Pakistani opposition to Israel has done nothing to disparage that fear.

 

[Romali_rotti]

It's not about backing or not, there is a very real fear in israeli psyche that Pakistan could use its nuclear arsenal against them and Pakistani opposition to Israel has done nothing to disparage that fear.

Not quite, if Pakistan launched a nuke against Israel that would be the end of Pakistan so they wouldn't be crazy enough to do such a thing. However there would be legit fears that Pakistan's nuke technology could get into the hands of Israel's enemies....

 

[chacha kashmiri]

Not quite, if Pakistan launched a nuke against Israel that would be the end of Pakistan so they wouldn't be crazy enough to do such a thing. However there would be legit fears that Pakistan's nuke technology could get into the hands of Israel's enemies....

But it wouldn't be the end of Israels enemies?

Not sure whether you're directly linking the Iran nuclear weapons with Abdul qadir or not

 

[Gabbar Singh]

Why Pakistan should recognise Israel
By Noman Sajjad Published: November 16, 2015

Sometimes it becomes inexorable and practical to change the paradigms, let the past stay in the past and forget about historical incidents in order to open doors that lead to peace, prosperity and harmony.

History documents that Pakistan and Israel are never directly involved in hostility or disputes with each other. However, in showing solidarity with Arab countries and in support of Palestine, Pakistan has categorically refused to recognise Israel as an independent state since its inception. Our history books and widespread stereotypes have played a major role in filling our hearts and minds with hatred against Israel.

Considering the cost-benefit analysis and without abandoning support for the Palestinians, here are some of the reasons to accord recognition to Israel:

1. To promote regional peace, foster inter-ethnic and interfaith harmony with understanding.

2. The strategic location of Pakistan and geographical location of Israel can definitely complement one another well.

3. To lessen the pressure of difficult neighbours. Such an increase in the list of allies can do wonders.

4. To better Pakistan’s image as a friendly and moderate Islamic state.

5. To boost the economy by building trade relations, importing foodstuffs, cotton, etc., since Israel offers a huge market, and benefiting with the Israeli export of military and agricultural technology.

6. To put an end to hypocrisy, because after devastating wars with India and with the Kashmir issue still unsettled even after scores of years, India was not only accepted as a state but voted as the “most favoured nation”. On the other side, Pakistan buys ammunition from Israel, lets Israeli products dominate its market and yet is hesitant to accept Israel as a free state. (Robert Fisk highlights the arm deals in between Pakistan and Israel in his book The Great War for Civilisation.)

7. Pakistan-Israel ties could be an advantageous move as Israel has great influence on the United States and India.

8. Opening academic and cultural exchange opportunities for students.

9. Allowing Muslim and Christian Pakistanis to visit their holy places in Israel.

10. Jews, Muslims and Christians share some commonalities in their faith, which can definitely promote interfaith harmony.

11. By establishing ties, Pakistan can influence Israel with regard to resolving the Kashmir issue and can possibly play a part in normalising relations between Palestine and Israel.

12. Lastly, policies are not decoration pieces. They are meant to change with the growing needs and for the protection of national interests and national security.

Pakistan has not accorded Israel recognition since its inception due to the Palestine issue, and fears that India-Israel connections are working against its security, ultimately affecting the sub-continental balance of power. However, there is dire need to wash out all the stereotypes which have existed in our belief system since our inception.

Firstly, we need to realise that it is not about Jews versus Muslims. It is more Israel versus Palestine, mainly over land disputes. There are nearly 400,000 Palestinian Christians among the sufferers in disputed lands.

Secondly, we can no longer blame the US, India and Israel for anything and everything that happens in our country.

Thirdly, Arab countries enjoy good relations with Israel. Even Turkey – one of our supporters – has good diplomatic relations with Israel. Furthermore, Pakistan extended its full support to some of the Arab countries against Israel, but Pakistan was hardly backed by Saddam Hussein, Yasser Arafat and many other Muslim leaders when Pakistan was in need of support.

Rationally, is there any reason not to have diplomatic relations with Israel? The need of the hour is to realise that Israel didn’t vanish from the map because Pakistan decided not to recognise it. On the other hand, Pakistan is getting nothing out of this rigid stance.

Our own country is riddled with humongous problems and disputes that need to be addressed before we point fingers at Israel’s intrusion into the Palestinian land.

Pakistan must not only reassess the realities on the ground, but needs to readjust its diplomatic stance. Logical reasoning, a rational attitude and political maturity need to replace the emotional stance, aggressive slogans and baseless rhetoric. Making such changes democratically will be an uphill task, because foreign policy cannot be formed without consideration for public opinion. Education and balanced media can play major role in deeper understanding of such sensitive issues, issues that should be discussed in parliament, not in roadside restaurants and streets corners.

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/30239/why-pakistan-should-recognise-israel/

 

[Pace90]

On humanitarian basis and not on religious basis, I would hold this step until Israel stops committing atrocities towrads Palestine and accepts Palistine state. After that, I would have no problem in recognizing Israel, which is a reality and we have to accept it. Stop fighting other's war, but support the people facing cruel atrocities.

 

[dayvancowboy]

On humanitarian basis and not on religious basis, I would hold this step until Israel stops committing atrocities towrads Palestine and accepts Palistine state. After that, I would have no problem in recognizing Israel, which is a reality and we have to accept it. Stop fighting other's war, but support the people facing cruel atrocities.

True, but what if some Israelis oppose relations with Pakistan on the basis of commitng atrocities against minorities such as Christians and Ahmadis in Pakistan? Or maybe restore the sole synagogue in Karachi?

 

[Saeed]

Pakistan shouldn't have relations with Israel as long as it supports ISIS.

 

[dayvancowboy]

Pakistan shouldn't have relations with Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey as long as it supports ISIS.

Fixed.

 

[Saeed]

Fixed.

You don't fix something that isn't broke.

 

[Savak]

I wonder how Pakistani's feel about this today. Even if we recognize Israel, are the Arab states going to launch a boycott and embargo against us?

 

[Reddy]

I wonder how Pakistani's feel about this today. Even if we recognize Israel, are the Arab states going to launch a boycott and embargo against us?

Which world do you live in? Even now in 2017 i see Pakistani TV channels use the words Hindus and Jews as pejorative words and this is the elite and educated people, you will get civil war by doing this, better to forget about having any relations with Israel.

 

[Savak]

Which world do you live in? Even now in 2017 i see Pakistani TV channels use the words Hindus and Jews as pejorative words and this is the elite and educated people, you will get civil war by doing this, better to forget about having any relations with Israel.

I believe in the Sir Syed school of thought "If you can't beat them, join them", "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

 

[Varun]

I believe in the Sir Syed school of thought "If you can't beat them, join them", "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

Pakistan should play every side against the other. Saudi vs Iran, Iran vs Israel, etc. They're in prime position to do so, and should just go for it.

 

[Madplayer]

Yet again Musharraf showing what a great leader and visionary he was (apart from the blip at the end of his rule).

Pakistan needs to recognise Israel and start trade with them. The Arabs are not thinking of "one ummah" and boycotting India for Kashmir issue. Pakistan should return the favour by putting its own interests first.

 

[Varun]

Yet again Musharraf showing what a great leader and visionary he was (apart from the blip at the end of his rule).

Pakistan needs to recognise Israel and start trade with them. The Arabs are not thinking of "one ummah" and boycotting India for Kashmir issue. Pakistan should return the favour by putting its own interests first.

Yep, yep, yep. And it's not a choice between one or the other. You can have cool relations with Israel and Palestine and Iran.

 

[Reddy]

Yet again Musharraf showing what a great leader and visionary he was (apart from the blip at the end of his rule).

Pakistan needs to recognise Israel and start trade with them. The Arabs are not thinking of "one ummah" and boycotting India for Kashmir issue. Pakistan should return the favour by putting its own interests first.

Yeah Mush the great leader who did Kargil and then pushed off democratically elected leader to become a military dictator, will you in J&K prefer that Indian Chief of Army pushes off Indian PM and assumes control ??

And the idea about Pakistan recognising and trading with Israel is even more absurd, it will lead to civil war while you stay in Jammu and Kashmir or some other state of India. Hindu and Jews are still used as pejorative words on Pakistani TV channels by educated and rich anchors, this is the current environment and you want to just explode the situation and have fun from far away i guess.

 

[troodon]

I wonder what will happen in Pakistan if Pak recognizes Israel and establishes relations with it. Will Pak Awam stay quite?

India plays a smart game by being a friend of both Israel and Palestinians.

 

[sshakir411]

All good and well in wanting relations with Israel but given the current state of Pakistan I'm pretty certain they don't want relations with us. There was once an interest from the Israelis but it disappeared after the Soviet war and the rise in extremism. Israel has no desire to have relations with any hard-line Muslim country...maybe Saudi but that's only because of Iran.

 

[Savak]

I wonder what will happen in Pakistan if Pak recognizes Israel and establishes relations with it. Will Pak Awam stay quite?

India plays a smart game by being a friend of both Israel and Palestinians.

TBH

First month will be tough but life will go on eventually. High security will need to be provided to Israeli officials and ofcourse the Pakistani intelligence community will need to be vigilant against the Mossad for activities in Pakistan.

 

[Savak]

All good and well in wanting relations with Israel but given the current state of Pakistan I'm pretty certain they don't want relations with us. There was once an interest from the Israelis but it disappeared after the Soviet war and the rise in extremism. Israel has no desire to have relations with any hard-line Muslim country...maybe Saudi but that's only because of Iran.

The funny part is that Pakistan has a history of plenty of unofficial meetings exchanges with the Israeli's, the ISI and the Mossad frequently exchange intelligence information with each other.

 

[Madplayer]

Yeah Mush the great leader who did Kargil and then pushed off democratically elected leader to become a military dictator, will you in J&K prefer that Indian Chief of Army pushes off Indian PM and assumes control ??

First of all calm down. Ofcourse he wasnt right in pushing off democratically elected PM. I was talking more about the time he ruled. Under him Pakistan was in a much better state than it is after his fall.

People in J&K dont care who comes to power in India. They dont expect to be treated any different.

And the idea about Pakistan recognising and trading with Israel is even more absurd, it will lead to civil war while you stay in Jammu and Kashmir or some other state of India. Hindu and Jews are still used as pejorative words on Pakistani TV channels by educated and rich anchors, this is the current environment and you want to just explode the situation and have fun from far away i guess.

Ofcourse thats a reality, i acknowledge it. I didnt say Pakistan needs to do it today itself. Rather Pakistan should start to prepare ground for it. Let the people know slowly and steadily that the Arabs arent helping their cause in Kashmir and hence they arent obligated to be saints in return. Pakistan already communicates with Israel through Istanbul. Ofcourse a full fledged recognition would take time because it needs a lot of homework but it has to be done. National interests come first. If the change is slow enough, the public wont react badly. Thats the golden rule.

 

[Madplayer]

All good and well in wanting relations with Israel but given the current state of Pakistan I'm pretty certain they don't want relations with us. There was once an interest from the Israelis but it disappeared after the Soviet war and the rise in extremism. Israel has no desire to have relations with any hard-line Muslim country...maybe Saudi but that's only because of Iran.

If Pakistan offers recognition to Israel, they will grab it with both hands. It only makes them stronger, especially recognition from a muslim nuclear power. The Zionists arent emotional idiots like us muslims.

 

[sshakir411]

The funny part is that Pakistan has a history of plenty of unofficial meetings exchanges with the Israeli's, the ISI and the Mossad frequently exchange intelligence information with each other.

Previously yes, but I don't think that's been the case in the last 10 years. Under Mush there was more collaboration but since then it's gone down hill fast. Israel is a paranoid nation and it would take a lot to build a relationship that includes trade and tourism with Pakistan. Just look at their current relations with a modern secular Turkey..it's a see-saw despite both wanting it to be better. Israelis stopped traveling there 5 years ago.

 

[sshakir411]

If Pakistan offers recognition to Israel, they will grab it with both hands. It only makes them stronger, especially recognition from a muslim nuclear power. The Zionists arent emotional idiots like us muslims.

They are not idiots and that's why where they are now it doesn't matter to them if Muslims accept them or not. The Arab league (constituted of countries that once fought with Israel) proposed a deal where all Muslim countries would accept Israel in return for the 1947 borders and they rejected it.

Israel has moved on and the Muslim world doesn't matter to it, except maybe Iran.

 

[Madplayer]

They are not idiots and that's why where they are now it doesn't matter to them if Muslims accept them or not. The Arab league (constituted of countries that once fought with Israel) proposed a deal where all Muslim countries would accept Israel in return for the 1947 borders and they rejected it.

Israel has moved on and the Muslim world doesn't matter to it, except maybe Iran.

Well they rejected it initially because the circumstances werent that good that time given the passover massacre had taken place in Israel. They also argued that if the Arab league's proposal was accepted, the UN resolutions of bilateral negotiations would take a back seat. However the same Arab league and Israel have better relations when Israel accepted their proposals with some disagreements in 2007 and 2009. Ofcourse Israel is paranoid, it will take time for them to completely trust any muslim nation. Shouldnt matter to Pakistan because their stand against Israel is pointless. Atleast a step in good relations would yield something good.

 

[sshakir411]

Well they rejected it initially because the circumstances werent that good that time given the passover massacre had taken place in Israel. They also argued that if the Arab league's proposal was accepted, the UN resolutions of bilateral negotiations would take a back seat. However the same Arab league and Israel have better relations when Israel accepted their proposals with some disagreements in 2007 and 2009. Ofcourse Israel is paranoid, it will take time for them to completely trust any muslim nation. Shouldnt matter to Pakistan because their stand against Israel is pointless. Atleast a step in good relations would yield something good.

True, but they're not dying for our recognition. They've already neutralized any threat from Muslim countries other than Iran. I don't think they'd grab on to an opportunity to be recognized by us, yet. Who knows what the future is like though.

 

[Madplayer]

True, but they're not dying for our recognition. They've already neutralized any threat from Muslim countries other than Iran. I don't think they'd grab on to an opportunity to be recognized by us, yet. Who knows what the future is like though.

Ofcourse they are not dying for it. They are doing just fine without it. It doesnt mean they wont like Pakistan to recognise them. Any recognition is good recognition for Israel. They would also think of it as one more way to demoralise Iran and keep them at bay. Lets see what happens in future..

 

[Savak]

Previously yes, but I don't think that's been the case in the last 10 years. Under Mush there was more collaboration but since then it's gone down hill fast. Israel is a paranoid nation and it would take a lot to build a relationship that includes trade and tourism with Pakistan. Just look at their current relations with a modern secular Turkey..it's a see-saw despite both wanting it to be better. Israelis stopped traveling there 5 years ago.

I have read plenty of books and the amount of secretive stuff that goes on in the background is shocking. The Pakistani army has trained the Arab armies of Egypt, Jordan and the Israeli's were very impressed with the performance of Pakistani trained pilots in the 73 wars.

During the USSR millitary adventure in Pakistan, the Israeli's and the ISI cooperated together to funnel money, arms and to train the gureilla fighters of Afghanistan.

The ISI intercepted intelligence information about a planned terrorist attack on the Israeli embassy in India and passed the information on to Mossad. Similarly the ISI intercepted information on planned terrorist attacks in Israel and passed it on to the Mossad via CIA.

Israel in 1981 had destroyed Iraq's Nuclear facility in Osirik. They were planning to do the same to Kahuta in 1998 with Indian help but to their shock and horror discovered at the last minute that the Pakistani Air Force was ready and fully prepared to counter any attack on its nuclear facilities. Islamabad even sent a message to the Israeli's that Pakistan was no Iraq and any attack on Pakistan's nuclear facilities will be met with a reciprocal attack on Tel Aviv and on Israel's nuclear facility at Dimona.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I wonder how Pakistani's feel about this today. Even if we recognize Israel, are the Arab states going to launch a boycott and embargo against us?

Nethanyahooo wouldn't even sit in the same room as the Pakistani PM when he was dining in the US a few years ago. Israel detests Pakistan, it sees it as having the 'Islamic bomb' which in time could be a threat to it. Israel doesnt want relations with Pakistan, it wants Pakistan to collapse within as it cannot go to war with a nuclear armed nation. Much of the terrorism in Pakistan was planned by Mossad, with CIA and Indian intelligence officials.

 

[King-Misbah]

Great to see all liberals wanting to form relations with the most evil people on Earth. Legitally; we have become such a beghairat nation. We need to look at ourselves and fix what's wrong as oppose to now running into Israels lap.

 

[Varun]

Great to see all liberals wanting to form relations with the most evil people on Earth. Legitally; we have become such a beghairat nation. We need to look at ourselves and fix what's wrong as oppose to now running into Israels lap.

If you are stating that Israel are the 'most evil people on earth' because of the number of Palestinians they have killed, where does that leave the US of A?

 

[sshakir411]

I have read plenty of books and the amount of secretive stuff that goes on in the background is shocking. The Pakistani army has trained the Arab armies of Egypt, Jordan and the Israeli's were very impressed with the performance of Pakistani trained pilots in the 73 wars.

During the USSR millitary adventure in Pakistan, the Israeli's and the ISI cooperated together to funnel money, arms and to train the gureilla fighters of Afghanistan.

The ISI intercepted intelligence information about a planned terrorist attack on the Israeli embassy in India and passed the information on to Mossad. Similarly the ISI intercepted information on planned terrorist attacks in Israel and passed it on to the Mossad via CIA.

Israel in 1981 had destroyed Iraq's Nuclear facility in Osirik. They were planning to do the same to Kahuta in 1998 with Indian help but to their shock and horror discovered at the last minute that the Pakistani Air Force was ready and fully prepared to counter any attack on its nuclear facilities. Islamabad even sent a message to the Israeli's that Pakistan was no Iraq and any attack on Pakistan's nuclear facilities will be met with a reciprocal attack on Tel Aviv and on Israel's nuclear facility at Dimona.

You're right but this is all from pre 2000s which is my point. I think the last time they must've shared any intel with each other was during Mush era but nothing after 2008 and the Mumbai attacks. Israelis were also targeted and killed. Many Israelis still remember Pakistan only for that incident.

 

[CanadianG00se]

You're right but this is all from pre 2000s which is my point. I think the last time they must've shared any intel with each other was during Mush era but nothing after 2008 and the Mumbai attacks. Israelis were also targeted and killed. Many Israelis still remember Pakistan only for that incident.

So do you think 2008 Mumbai attack have killed any possibility of Israel-Pakistan relationship? I never until now view it that way, even though Jews were also targetted.

 

[sshakir411]

So do you think 2008 Mumbai attack have killed any possibility of Israel-Pakistan relationship? I never until now view it that way, even though Jews were also targetted.

No, not killed the possibility but has pushed it few years ahead. The security of its people is paramount to Israel and it won't be comfortable being friendly with Pakistan since religious extremism and antisemitism is very prevalent in our society.

 

[Savak]

You're right but this is all from pre 2000s which is my point. I think the last time they must've shared any intel with each other was during Mush era but nothing after 2008 and the Mumbai attacks. Israelis were also targeted and killed. Many Israelis still remember Pakistan only for that incident.

An Israeli scientist came to Islamabad for a conference sponsored by the Pakistan Academy of Sciences in Islamabad. My parents being Pakistani passport holders used a loophole and visited the Al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem and completed their lifelong dream.

 

[King-Misbah]

If you are stating that Israel are the 'most evil people on earth' because of the number of Palestinians they have killed, where does that leave the US of A?

Stop asking me stupid questions to indirectly support Israel.

 

[Syed1]

Great to see all liberals wanting to form relations with the most evil people on Earth. Legitally; we have become such a beghairat nation. We need to look at ourselves and fix what's wrong as oppose to now running into Israels lap.

Well 70 years of ignoring them has surely helped the Palestinians hasn't it?


Either declare open war against them and destroy them once and for all (not possible since Israel is US's poodle)


Or form basic relations with them so that they come on the negotiating table, gain leverage and force them either through diplomacy or economic measures (Pakistan's economic potential is several times higher than Israel) to take a softer stance on the Palestinians, relax restrictions on movement and reduce armed forces in occupied territory.



To me option B seems a whole lot more plausible.

 

[Varun]

Stop asking me stupid questions to indirectly support Israel.

Sure, I'll leave you to your denial then.

 

[Reddy]

Well 70 years of ignoring them has surely helped the Palestinians hasn't it?


Either declare open war against them and destroy them once and for all (not possible since Israel is US's poodle)

Declaring open war and destroying Israel, are you delusional?? Israel is a nuclear armed state and their nuclear doctrine is even more dangerous than Islamic Republic of Pakistan, it is the "Samson Option", The entire Islamic world will get the nuclear holocaust including the holy spots and not just the attacking Islamic country.

 

[Syed1]

Declaring open war and destroying Israel, are you delusional?? Israel is a nuclear armed state and their nuclear doctrine is even more dangerous than Islamic Republic of Pakistan, it is the "Samson Option", The entire Islamic world will get the nuclear holocaust including the holy spots and not just the attacking Islamic country.

If you had continued reading you would have had your answer.

 

[Reddy]

If you had continued reading you would have had your answer.

You very well know what i am talking about, your first point and option was about Pakistan cannot destroy Israel because it is US's "poodle". Well, come tomorrow if USA drops its relations with Israel even then Pakistan cannot destroy Israel without Megatons of Nuclear holocaust raining in return on all the Islamic countries.

 

[Madplayer]

Well 70 years of ignoring them has surely helped the Palestinians hasn't it?


Either declare open war against them and destroy them once and for all (not possible since Israel is US's poodle)


Or form basic relations with them so that they come on the negotiating table, gain leverage and force them either through diplomacy or economic measures (Pakistan's economic potential is several times higher than Israel) to take a softer stance on the Palestinians, relax restrictions on movement and reduce armed forces in occupied territory.



To me option B seems a whole lot more plausible.

Option B sounds a lot more plausible and actually it will be a slap on the faces of Arabs who ignore Pakistan's interests in Kashmir and hardly ever pressurise India. Why should Pakistan care about Palestine when All Arabs including Palestine doesnt care about Pakistan's interests in Kashmir? I know some emotional chaps would come and talk the usual one muslim ummah non sense but i expect the saner ones to understand.

Secondly, the best option for Palestine is the one state solution. The muslims need to strengthen democracy in the newly formed single state. Moving forwards, It wont take Muslims (Palestinians) long to make Israelis (jews) a minority in the country given their high fertitility rates. Democracy would ensure that muslims come back to power without much opposition. It will be a long long process spanning decades but its the only way i see.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Build relations with Israel to counter India: Musharraf<br><br>Read more: <a href="https://t.co/44M0SwVAFV">https://t.co/44M0SwVAFV</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheNews?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#TheNews</a><a href="https://t.co/0q4K7lbNoA">https://t.co/0q4K7lbNoA</a></p>— The News (@thenews_intl) <a href="https://twitter.com/thenews_intl/status/1099249201366663168?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 23, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[hussain.r97]

Pakistan no longer gains anything from isolating Israel anymore. The Arab world is happy to have ties with them now, and the Arab world isn't severing ties with India over Kashmir either. To top it off, Iran has turned into an Indian puppet, making it impossible for Pakistan to maintain a balance between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Opening diplomatic ties with Israel is far more beneficial for Pakistan than trying to appease a backstabbing and treacherous Iran.

In any case, having no diplomatic ties with Israel hasn't really even helped the Palestinians in any way. Maybe opening ties with them would allow us and other nations to bring them to the table and negotiate.

 

[msb314]

Pakistan no longer gains anything from isolating Israel anymore. The Arab world is happy to have ties with them now, and the Arab world isn't severing ties with India over Kashmir either. To top it off, Iran has turned into an Indian puppet, making it impossible for Pakistan to maintain a balance between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Opening diplomatic ties with Israel is far more beneficial for Pakistan than trying to appease a backstabbing and treacherous Iran.

In any case, having no diplomatic ties with Israel hasn't really even helped the Palestinians in any way. Maybe opening ties with them would allow us and other nations to bring them to the table and negotiate.

Completely agree

Abstaining from political ties with Israel whilst India developed this relationship into becoming a forte has caused nothing but damage and diplomatic isolation for us.

Regardless of how we really feel about the palestinian people and them being oppressed - we must realize that there is far more to gain (both politically, military-wise and monetarily) be establishing deep ties with Israel.

This is long overdue...

 

[Madplayer]

Pakistan no longer gains anything from isolating Israel anymore. The Arab world is happy to have ties with them now, and the Arab world isn't severing ties with India over Kashmir either. To top it off, Iran has turned into an Indian puppet, making it impossible for Pakistan to maintain a balance between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Opening diplomatic ties with Israel is far more beneficial for Pakistan than trying to appease a backstabbing and treacherous Iran.

In any case, having no diplomatic ties with Israel hasn't really even helped the Palestinians in any way. Maybe opening ties with them would allow us and other nations to bring them to the table and negotiate.

I think it is a realist solution that Pakistan develops ties with Israel. As a muslim i would find it a really hard pill to swallow but unfortunately this is an era of nationalism and Arab nationalists arent doing Pakistan any favours by having close ties with India. Saudi king even defended treatment of Uyghurs the other day which tells you what a joke the idea of muslim unity has become.

However, i think Pakistan somehow needs to balance its relations with Iran because Pakistan has a huge population of Shia muslims which cannot be ignored.

 

[rhony]

Musharraf is probably the most disrupting force in India Pakistan relations. That dude has been defeated in every endeavor and still tries to be relevant. This is the dumbest thing I've heard from him though. India is Israel's biggest arms buyer. Indo Israeli relations are it's peak.

Pakistan's friendship with Israel will ruin it's legitimacy as one of the beacons of Islam. There are already spotty relations with the Arab world as it is and this will be seen as a sellout. The only Islamic country that possesses nuclear power should try to rise above extremism and chauvinism and change the world's perception first. That will solve all the problems. China's proximity to Pakistan means Pakistan doesn't need to court anybody else just for the heck of it. Follow the path of democracy, reduce military influence, curb terrorism and focus on trade and invest in people.

 

[Adijazz1706]

I think it is a realist solution that Pakistan develops ties with Israel. As a muslim i would find it a really hard pill to swallow but unfortunately this is an era of nationalism and Arab nationalists arent doing Pakistan any favours by having close ties with India. Saudi king even defended treatment of Uyghurs the other day which tells you what a joke the idea of muslim unity has become.

However, i think Pakistan somehow needs to balance its relations with Iran because Pakistan has a huge population of Shia muslims which cannot be ignored.

On one hand you want justice for Kashmiris, on the other you want Pakistan to deny any justice to the Palestinians. What gives?

 

[Romali_rotti]

[MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] would you be open to an Israel-Pakistan Alliance if it is of benefit to you such as counter balancing the India factor ? Honest opinion needed, not an emotional or a moral one...

 

[Bilal7]

Always was a bit of an idiot, this Musharraf. Pakistan should further strengthen its ties with OIC nations, like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UAE, etc. Israel is an oppressor and does not deserve to be given any respect as long as it continues its colonialist actions.

What can Israel offer Pakistan anyway? An action-plan to take over Occupied- Kashmir?

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Always was a bit of an idiot, this Musharraf. Pakistan should further strengthen its ties with OIC nations, like Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UAE, etc. Israel is an oppressor and does not deserve to be given any respect as long as it continues its colonialist actions.

What can Israel offer Pakistan anyway? An action-plan to take over Occupied- Kashmir?

Turkeys relationship with Israel is virtually unbreakable... I'm the grand scheme, Arabs client and never have given a damn about Pakistan. Nor Palestinians at that

 

[Major]

Some funny posts here.

If Israel is an oppressor then what about China? Or Saudi?
China has oppressed its muslims and Saudi's have not only violated human rights of those who do not support their govt but also back Israel

Mushraffe is right, there is nothing to gain by boycotting a country that now even muslim countries have ties with.

And its not like Pakistani Govt never had ties with Israel.

During Zia's govt, the weapons that were being purchased actually came from Israel. And this is during the regime of a guy who called himself very islamic.

Pakistan doesn't care about who is oppressed or not, thats a reality whether someone likes this or not. If we cared we would had not been enjoying the MBS arrival or the CPEC deal with China. Infact, we could had atleast made the situation better for the Balochis.

 

[Major]

On one hand you want justice for Kashmiris, on the other you want Pakistan to deny any justice to the Palestinians. What gives?

WHat about the justice for the Ughyr Muslims?
If we care about the justice of Palestine then why we took money from MBS who now is starting to ahve ties with Israel?

WHat about our treatment of the PTM members who dont even get taken to court but are picked up from their homes.

I think its about time we realize how govt cares less about Human rights. If we did care we would had adopted them on ourselves long time ago.

Its all politics. We will bash Israel only because its a muslim thing to do. But when a political sitatuion arrise, we will make deals with China and even Israel(as we did during Zia's Govt)

 

[sjahmed23]

Pakistan is headed right direction under IK. Having relationship with Israel will bring no benefits to us except ire from our next door neighbor. Pak need better relationship with the Russia, Iran nexus to keep US in check.

 

[Savak]

Pakistan and Israel do talk behind the scenes informally. The ISI and Mossad have interacted and exchanged intelligence information with each other

I work for a predominantly Jewish firm in Toronto where all employees talk about their Israeli links openly, they have been very nice to me.

Pakistan needs to move with the modern times, Israel is a reality and we need to counter the Indo Israeli nexus. However I doubt Imran Khan will dare to do this

 

[Madplayer]

On one hand you want justice for Kashmiris, on the other you want Pakistan to deny any justice to the Palestinians. What gives?

I want justice for them too. However, i was speaking purely from the perspective of intl. relations. The Arabs arent doing the Kashmir cause any favours. Arabs (including Palestinians) have good ties with India while Pakistan (and Kashmiris) want to have absolutely nothing to do with Israel. You dont know how much Kashmiris hate Israel its crazy. If you ask an average Kashmiri who he wants to achieve freedom 1st, he would say 1st Palestine and then Kashmir. Thats how crazy it is. But my question is, is our blood cheaper? In international relations its always give and take. If Arabs arent helping Pakistan in Kashmir, why should Pakistan not adopt the same approach with Palestine? I am speaking about the interests of Pakistanis and Kashmiris. Not to mention you can have diplomatic ties with Israel and still work for the Palestinian cause.

 

[Asim_khan]

He's been paid to say this. There's something in it for him.

Anyone watch the documentary where he goes to America to meet senators/Congress members for help getting back into power?