Religion in Pakistan Cricket Team

wasim-fan

Local Club Captain
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Very interesting and revealing piece. Disbanding some previous notions.

"Much has been written about the spectacle of religiosity in the Pakistan cricket team. Most scribes who still write about it suggest that acts of religious exhibitionism by Pakistani cricketers began to wither away once the team’s captain, Inzamamul Haq, retired from the game in 2007.

However, while researching the phenomenon, I noticed that a number of writers who have written about the issue treated it as a sudden, overnight happening that crept into the team when Inzamam was made captain in 2004.

Perhaps the most complete and authentic account in this context recently arrived in the shape of a book: The Cricket Cauldron by diplomat and former chairman of the Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB), Shaharyar Khan.

Khan was made the Chairman of the PCB by General Parvez Musharraf, after the Pakistan team was eliminated in the first round of the 2003 World Cup in South Africa.

Rameez Raja was made the CEO of the board. Khan came in when the Pakistan team had lost the services of a number of renowned players. The team had to be rebuilt almost from scratch.

Wicketkeeper Rashid Latif had replaced Waqar Younis as captain after the 2003 World Cup, but he didn’t last long. He was soon replaced by the classy stroke-maker, Inzamamul Haq.

Khan writes that contrary to popular belief, Inzamam was not the sole architect of the so-called Islamisation of the Pakistan cricket team.

Though between the 1970s and late 1990s, Pakistan cricket teams were famous (and at times notorious) for their flamboyant and colourful lifestyles and cricketing skills, Khan informs that it was actually during captain Waqar Younis’ tenure that the Islamic evangelical outfit, the Tableeghi Jamaat (TJ), made its initial moves to ‘Islamise Pakistan cricket’.

TJ’s first bona fide cricketing member, the dashing opener, Saeed Anwar (who had joined the outfit in 2001), was given the task by Waqar to use faith as a motivational tool. Anwar was also allowed to openly recruit other players for the TJ.

Khan, who was the manager of the team during the 2003 World Cup, first noticed this during a bus ride. The bus was taking the team to the ground where it was to play its first game of the tournament.

According to Khan, Anwar, who had begun to sport a long beard, walked up to the front of the bus and announced that ‘angels will descend and help Pakistan win the Cup.’ Everybody applauded.

A few weeks later when the Pakistan team had lost most of its games and was eventually eliminated from the tournament, Khan jokingly asked Anwar what had happened to the angels that he said would descend and help Pakistan win.

Without smiling back, Anwar sombrely replied that the angels hadn’t appeared because they (the players) were not good Muslims (!)

Khan then explains in detail why and how Inzamam, (despite the angels failing to stoop down), retained the tactic of using religion as a strategic tool to instill unity in the squad when he was made captain.

After joining the TJ, the new captain at once began to draft a number of players into the organisation’s fold and asked them to start holding joint prayers (in public view) and attend lectures delivered by various TJ preachers.

In an interesting confession, Khan claims that both Rameez and he initially encouraged the trend believing it to be a good way of fortifying discipline and unity in the squad.

However, Khan writes that in 2006 he became perturbed by the religiosity aspect when it grew two-fold and began to be used as a way for Inzamam to gauge a player’s loyalty to him.

Khan explains how many players began to grow beards and openly exhibit their religiosity just to be in Inzamam’s good books, whereas those players who refused to do so were ostracised.

The ostracised members did not only include wild, ‘party-animals’ like Shoaib Akhtar, but Younis Khan as well who preferred to keep his faith a private matter.

Khan also writes that Inzamam was weary of his vice-captain, Younis Khan, because the press thought that Younis would make a more positive and attacking captain than Inzamam.

Then there were those who were completely kept out of the squad by Inzamam. Players like Hassan Raza and current Pakistan captain, Misbahul Haq, were kept out because (according to Khan) as they had more education and exposure than most players and would not have readily fallen into the kind of religious conformism that Inzamam had instilled into the team.

Khan also relates how all-rounder, Rana Naveedul Hassan, and medium-pacer, Rao Iftikhar, suddenly grew beards to keep their place in the squad that travelled to the West Indies for the 2007 World Cup.

Pakistan was ousted in the first round of the tournament and Inzamam had to retire. Shaheryar claims that though Inzamam had left behind a number of TJ enthusiasts in the squad, only Shahid Afridi (who was recruited by TJ in 2005), Salman Butt (who didn’t join TJ but was a staunch supporter), and Mohammad Yousuf stuck to the Jamaat’s social and moral dictates.

Most other players almost immediately shed off their religious pretences with Rana even going to the extent of getting a stylish hair transplant and sticking a diamond stud in one of his ears!

Nevertheless, though refusing to use religion the way Inzamam did, players such as Afridi and Mohammad Hafeez have retained the practice of praising God during post-match TV interviews (albeit only when the team wins or they bag a man of the match award), This practice was first suggested by the TJ to Waqar Younis and then made mandatory by Inzamam.

Khan concludes by informing that today the team culture has become far more relaxed, especially under Misbah, who is an extremely private man and keeps his religious beliefs to himself.

The religious-minded players in the squad are free to practise their faith privately and nobody is forced to exhibit religion or mix it with cricket."


http://dawn.com/news/1028945/smokers-corner-faith-in-cricket/?commentPage=1&storyPage=2
 
Khan explains how many players began to grow beards and openly exhibit their religiosity just to be in Inzamam’s good books, whereas those players who refused to do so were ostracised.

The ostracised members did not only include wild, ‘party-animals’ like Shoaib Akhtar, but Younis Khan as well who preferred to keep his faith a private matter.

Khan also writes that Inzamam was weary of his vice-captain, Younis Khan, because the press thought that Younis would make a more positive and attacking captain than Inzamam.

Then there were those who were completely kept out of the squad by Inzamam. Players like Hassan Raza and current Pakistan captain, Misbahul Haq, were kept out because (according to Khan) as they had more education and exposure than most players and would not have readily fallen into the kind of religious conformism that Inzamam had instilled into the team.

Khan also relates how all-rounder, Rana Naveedul Hassan, and medium-pacer, Rao Iftikhar, suddenly grew beards to keep their place in the squad that travelled to the West Indies for the 2007 World Cup.

Pakistan was ousted in the first round of the tournament and Inzamam had to retire. Shaheryar claims that though Inzamam had left behind a number of TJ enthusiasts in the squad, only Shahid Afridi (who was recruited by TJ in 2005), Salman Butt (who didn’t join TJ but was a staunch supporter), and Mohammad Yousuf stuck to the Jamaat’s social and moral dictates.

Most other players almost immediately shed off their religious pretences with Rana even going to the extent of getting a stylish hair transplant and sticking a diamond stud in one of his ears!

That's a pretty damning indictment of Inzi.

Thankfully things are better now.

Khan concludes by informing that today the team culture has become far more relaxed, especially under Misbah, who is an extremely private man and keeps his religious beliefs to himself.
 
That's a pretty damning indictment of Inzi.

Thankfully things are better now.

But one has to bear in mind that this is Khan's opinion or just his side of the story. It is damning, yes,
 
Indeed. I should not rush to judge. But my admiration of Misbah in all this has just gone up a little. Every time I see him play I think of how wonderful he would have been for Pak if he was drafted into the team in his early 20s.
 
Hasan Raza poor guy, along with Misbah was the best player in domestic for the longest time.

Really poor stuff by Inzi and Saeed Anwar if true.

Nothing against preaching Islam and spreading the faith, but to use it as a way to choose the team terrible.


And whta about Sheri Khan himself, what was he doing?
 
If misbah wouldve played in his early years we wouldve missed out on the talent that is :bhanja
 
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But one has to bear in mind that this is Khan's opinion or just his side of the story. It is damning, yes,
True, it's only Khan's side of the story.
However, how many of us did'nt cringe when the likes of Inzi brought religion into every media interview? Whilst at the same time the Pakistan team, and the same 'religious' players, were being suspected of all kinds of shady goings on, from match-fixing to ball tampering to actual cheating (Afridi gouging the pitch). At a time when Islam is/was being associated with terrorism and violence, imagine the impression these cricketers were giving with their hypocricy.
 
Minus respect points for Inzamam. Poor poor stuff.
 
dont see anything surprising in that, i thought it was all fairly well known... having said that khan has to sell a book, if inzi was really all that against the less religious guys, akhtar and kaneria would never have been main stays of his squad.

misbah had some chances but never really took hold of them well enough to warrant replacing inzi, yousuf or yk. fact is if those three were still around and in form misbah would still be on the teams fringes.

it was a clear programme to unite the team under this religious banner, with the blessing of the management and woolmer. in hindsight it failed, but i dont think any really deserving cricketers were really hard done by simply on the ground of religious discrimination, imo.
 
Hasan Raza poor guy, along with Misbah was the best player in domestic for the longest time.

Really poor stuff by Inzi and Saeed Anwar if true.

Nothing against preaching Islam and spreading the faith, but to use it as a way to choose the team terrible.


And whta about Sheri Khan himself, what was he doing?

Indeed, although Shehryar Khan though is considered to be one of the more respected figures in Pakistan cricket, I think he is exaggerating slightly to keep himself and his book current, he should have raised these issues at the time to the players involved personally.

Regarding religion in the team, I'd rather it'd be a private matter.
 
lol, Misbah and Raza Hasan weren't good enough to get into the side.

Bob Woolmer who was a brilliant coach mentioned some concerns but overall didn't see any issues with this.
 
lol, Misbah and Raza Hasan weren't good enough to get into the side.

Bob Woolmer who was a brilliant coach mentioned some concerns but overall didn't see any issues with this.

Not really true... He and others expressed their frustrations many times on how players would just cut a training session and start praying..

What I personally didn't like was how Inzy made a show of everything as far as religion was concerned. Such as praying publicly in an airport lounge when you could have done it in private too.. Several other instances

and the parasites that are the tableeghi jamaat spent as much time in the dressing rooms as the coaches lol (exaggerating a bit here). There would be a daily religiouspreaching/ sermon session organized too
 
Not really true... He and others expressed their frustrations many times on how players would just cut a training session and start praying..

What I personally didn't like was how Inzy made a show of everything as far as religion was concerned. Such as praying publicly in an airport lounge when you could have done it in private too.. Several other instances

and the parasites that are the tableeghi jamaat spent as much time in the dressing rooms as the coaches lol (exaggerating a bit here). There would be a daily religiouspreaching/ sermon session organized too

As I said he did raise some concerns but at the same time said it wasn't a major issue. Woolmer also said Yousuf's conversion contributed to him becoming a much better batsmen.

Some may have got carried away but Kaneria was also in the team, those who didn't want to be involved were allowed to stay away such as Akhtar. It didn't make them worse players as Akhtar and Kaneria were the main wicket takers against England in 05.

When Wasim and Waqar were in the team the culture was one of drinking and smoking weed, when Inzy was captain religion was more prevelent. These things change but what's most important is the results and how the players perform on the field.
 
Anwar, who had begun to sport a long beard, walked up to the front of the bus and announced that ‘angels will descend and help Pakistan win the Cup.’ Everybody applauded.

:))


Such superstitious behaviour is not just exclusive to Pakistanis - even the Indian team will regularly engage in a 'pooja' or similar before an important tournament' The Sri Lankans will seek the blessing of Budhist monks prior to going on tour.

Of course the greatest irony is that these outwardly religious cricketing nations have been dwarfed by the likes of Austrailia in the past couple of decades. I guess God ain't listening.
 
:))


Such superstitious behaviour is not just exclusive to Pakistanis - even the Indian team will regularly engage in a 'pooja' or similar before an important tournament' The Sri Lankans will seek the blessing of Budhist monks prior to going on tour.

Of course the greatest irony is that these outwardly religious cricketing nations have been dwarfed by the likes of Austrailia in the past couple of decades. I guess God ain't listening.

Just goes to show just how big a load of crap religion is. It's baffling that in this day and age, there are still people around(who outnumber normal people no less) who bow before imaginary fairy tale characters and take commandments from some of the most ridiculous ancient texts which, if made into movies, would make the likes of Cannibal Holocaust and Apocalypto seem like 'The Little Mermaid'.
 
MSD before the CT final said "God is not coming here to help us winning this game"
wonder any Pakistani player can say that? if said, then what would be the consequences back in Pakistan?
 
Nothing wrong in being religious, just dnt show off and pretend to be better humans than others out there, calling others sinners and whatnot while you still act like a tool when nobody's watchin'.



\Here, Sunny Leone ji offering her prayers. Who can question her belief?
16-sunny-leone-600.jpg
 
The Tableeghi Jamat's influence was disgusting. There were many players that got selected repeatedly due to their outward show of religiosity.

I also have it on good account that Hasan Raza was not selected because he was Shia. He was selected for on test in 2005 against England and was dropped immediately whereas the likes of Malik were given chance after chances in test cricket.

Asim Kamal, though a decent batsman was selected even though others like Hasan Raza and Misbah were performing significantly better in domestic cricket.
 
The Tableeghi Jamat's influence was disgusting. There were many players that got selected repeatedly due to their outward show of religiosity.

I also have it on good account that Hasan Raza was not selected because he was Shia. He was selected for on test in 2005 against England and was dropped immediately whereas the likes of Malik were given chance after chances in test cricket.

Asim Kamal, though a decent batsman was selected even though others like Hasan Raza and Misbah were performing significantly better in domestic cricket.

That is so wrong at every level . Why must the skipper of a cricket team enforce his religious views & inclination on others .They,the team , are here to play a sport,not be religious flag bearers.
 
That is so wrong at every level . Why must the skipper of a cricket team enforce his religious views & inclination on others .They,the team , are here to play a sport,not be religious flag bearers.

I don't think Inzi considered winning cricket matches his primary objective.
 
One of the reasons why as soon as Yousuf and Saqlain started sporting mullah beards I was very concerned about the effect it would have on team morale. It's fine if they can keep their faith to themselves, but you can always bet that in Pakistan especially, it will be used as a form of religious one-upmanship. I recall Shoaib Akhtar getting shunned consistently when Inzamam was skipper.
 
:))


Such superstitious behaviour is not just exclusive to Pakistanis - even the Indian team will regularly engage in a 'pooja' or similar before an important tournament' The Sri Lankans will seek the blessing of Budhist monks prior to going on tour.

Of course the greatest irony is that these outwardly religious cricketing nations have been dwarfed by the likes of Austrailia in the past couple of decades. I guess God ain't listening.

I think that is still false equivalence. Individually cricketers having belief is one thing. I am sure most Indian or Sri lankan cricketers are religious. But instill it as value system on cricket team is completely different thing.
 
Have it on record from a former Pakistan player who was involved with the team that this is a very very accurate portrayal of the team under inzy. Been also told that as a result of
this morale was very low. Don't buy the Shia business though.. Inzy was a staunch supporter of Danish kaneria.
 
The Tableeghi Jamat's influence was disgusting. There were many players that got selected repeatedly due to their outward show of religiosity.

I also have it on good account that Hasan Raza was not selected because he was Shia. He was selected for on test in 2005 against England and was dropped immediately whereas the likes of Malik were given chance after chances in test cricket.

Asim Kamal, though a decent batsman was selected even though others like Hasan Raza and Misbah were performing significantly better in domestic cricket.

Asim Kamal was best of the lot , had the staying power on the crease.
 
Asim Kamal had a beard but was dropped.

Malik didn't sport a beard but was continuously one of Inzi's main picks, as was YK. Akhtar consistently praises Inzi as the best batsmen he has seen, I don't think he would say that if the case was of Inzi consistently sidelining him. Kaneria was prominent through Inzi's tensure.

Only Afridi and MoYo grew beards and they still have them to do this day. There's a lot of slander on here which isn't good, and Khans side of the story is one sided. It's easy to say things in the media and even easier here on PP to make slanderous statements where you can seemingly get away with them.
 
And for those saying Hassan Raza and Misbah were sidelined because of religion lolwut?.

They couldn't get in the team cos the quality was too high.
We had Inzi, YK, MoYo, Malik (prime), Butt, Afridi (batting prime) and Razzaq.

When Raza did get his chance against Eng in 05 on flat track in Pakistan, he failed in both inns. I remember him struggling against Harmisons short ball and subsequently getting yorked.
 
Asim Kamal had a beard but was dropped.

Malik didn't sport a beard but was continuously one of Inzi's main picks, as was YK. Akhtar consistently praises Inzi as the best batsmen he has seen, I don't think he would say that if the case was of Inzi consistently sidelining him. Kaneria was prominent through Inzi's tensure.

Only Afridi and MoYo grew beards and they still have them to do this day. There's a lot of slander on here which isn't good, and Khans side of the story is one sided. It's easy to say things in the media and even easier here on PP to make slanderous statements where you can seemingly get away with them.
You had to have been living in a different world if you did'nt notice the overt religious influences and the public showbiz manner in which they were displayed during Inzi's time at the helm.
 
You had to have been living in a different world if you did'nt notice the overt religious influences and the public showbiz manner in which they were displayed during Inzi's time at the helm.

Yeah there was religious influences but that's how they lives their lives, anything which we can't know for sure such as Inzi forcing people to have a beard can not be said cos it's outright slander.

Was Inzi part of the team that prayed on he grounds of Mohali in 2011? No. Religion is a part of the culture. Times have changed since the so called liberal attitudes of the 80s and 90s.
 
Was Inzi part of the team that prayed on he grounds of Mohali in 2011? No. Religion is a part of the culture. Times have changed since the so called liberal attitudes of the 80s and 90s.
Oh c'mon! It's got nothing to do with 'liberal attitudes'. Anybody who did'nt realize that Inzi & co's public displays of praying together was nothing to do with their religious beliefs and everything to do with them being publicity stunts for the consumption of people back in Pakistan must have been naive, blind or simply thick.

Religious beliefs are, and should be, private affairs of the heart and soul. Sure, there's nothing wrong with showing those convictions publically, or even conveying the religious message and inviting others to join. But displaying this on the field of play during a cricket match when representing your country, or in airport lounges when there are special facilities only yards away, is not the right way, or even the right forum, to do it in. It reeks of ulterior motives than simply offering prayers.
 
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Oh c'mon! It's got nothing to do with 'liberal attitudes'. Anybody who did'nt realize that Inzi & co's public displays of praying together was nothing to do with their religious beliefs and everything to do with them being publicity stunts for the consumption of people back in Pakistan must have been naive, blind or simply thick.

Religious beliefs are, and should be, private affairs of the heart and soul. Sure, there's nothing wrong with showing those convictions publically, or even conveying the religious message and inviting others to join. But displaying this on the field of play during a cricket match when representing your country, or in airport lounges when there are special facilities only yards away, is not the right way, or even the right forum, to do it in. It reeks of ulterior motives than simply offering prayers.

If Inzy and his team mates showered each other with champagane or beer like the English and Ausssies do after a victory nobody would have an issue but because it's religion it brings out the insecurities within some. Religion may be a private affair to you but to others it's their way of life and they are not worried about displaying it in public.

What captains and teams are judged on is success on the field and Inzy did pretty well over all.
 
If Inzy and his team mates showered each other with champagane or beer like the English and Ausssies do after a victory nobody would have an issue but because it's religion it brings out the insecurities within some. Religion may be a private affair to you but to others it's their way of life and they are not worried about displaying it in public.
As I said, they were not displaying religious beliefs in public, but making showbiz style publicity stunts for public consumption back in Pakistan.
 
As I said, they were not displaying religious beliefs in public, but making showbiz style publicity stunts for public consumption back in Pakistan.

Publicizing their religion is part of their religious beliefs.. As long as this doesn't influence their on field performances there is no issue. If anything Moyo converting helped him and Pakistan to achieve more.
 
Publicizing their religion is part of their religious beliefs.. As long as this doesn't influence their on field performances there is no issue. If anything Moyo converting helped him and Pakistan to achieve more.
Seem's like you are confusing publicising religious beliefs with making publicity stunts. In my opinion, Inzi & co were indulging in the latter and not the former.

As for MoYo's conversion making him a better cricketer, I'm not arguing with that. Look at Hashim Amla. He is a devout muslim. One could even argue that he is more devout than any of the Inzi & co crowd. Do you see him making the type of publicity stunts that Inzi & co indulged in? Absolutely not!
 
Perhaps Pakistan should rename itself Stan? If its best to private about what you are I think that would be good first step.
 
Seem's like you are confusing publicising religious beliefs with making publicity stunts. In my opinion, Inzi & co were indulging in the latter and not the former.

As for MoYo's conversion making him a better cricketer, I'm not arguing with that. Look at Hashim Amla. He is a devout muslim. One could even argue that he is more devout than any of the Inzi & co crowd. Do you see him making the type of publicity stunts that Inzi & co indulged in? Absolutely not!

What is the difference between publicizing their religion and a publicity stunt, please explain?
 
Well, here is only one side of the story.

Also, there was Shoaib Akhtar and a non-Muslim Kaneria who were regulars in the team under Inzimam ul Haq?

Maybe we aren't getting the full facts here.
But yeah, if this is true, its pathetic. Sometimes Pakistanis completely misinterpret how they are supposed to follow and preach religion. :/

Just goes to show just how big a load of crap religion is. It's baffling that in this day and age, there are still people around(who outnumber normal people no less) who bow before imaginary fairy tale characters and take commandments from some of the most ridiculous ancient texts which, if made into movies, would make the likes of Cannibal Holocaust and Apocalypto seem like 'The Little Mermaid'.

Hain, aren't you a Muslim? I thought you said that you were a Muslim although far from religious?

Anyway, not gonna comment on what you said.
 
Well, here is only one side of the story.

Also, there was Shoaib Akhtar and a non-Muslim Kaneria who were regulars in the team under Inzimam ul Haq?

Maybe we aren't getting the full facts here.
But yeah, if this is true, its pathetic. Sometimes Pakistanis completely misinterpret how they are supposed to follow and preach religion. :/



Hain, aren't you a Muslim? I thought you said that you were a Muslim although far from religious?

Anyway, not gonna comment on what you said.

In an interview that he gave to the Pakistan English daily, The News, in early 2009 when he became captain, he said: ‘What this (show of religiosity) did was that it made most players very introverted. They stopped going out and socialise; they also stopped interacting with other teams.’

But the most vocal critic of Inzamam’s ‘Raiwind regime’ was tearaway fast bowler was Shoaib Akhtar.

A mercurial and wild character in the mould of Sarfraz Nawaz, Akhtar continued to confront and question Inzamam’s tactics.

‘I usually do the opposite of what I am told to do,’ he later wrote in his book. He wrote that Inzamam and the Jamat were pushing down religion down the players’ throats. (42)

By 2007, Akhtar was perhaps the only player left in the team who was still reflecting the old, raunchier and irreligious culture of Pakistan cricket teams of yore – even though Mohammad Asif was not so far behind, having a particular liking for beer and hashish.

But as Akhtar ranted and raved, threw tantrums and brawled his way across episodes that included drug and drink binges and obsessive womanising, he retained a very healthy respect for Inzamam as a batsman at least.

Shoaib was also the only player in the side whom the Jamat members that accompanied the team simply refused to approach.

Pakistan cricket journalist, Osman Sammiuddin, noticed that ‘either they (the Jamat people) were just too scared to go near him, or they found him to be beyond repair.’

Shoaib Akhtar, who was not part of the squad, bemoaned the fact that an over-indulgence in religion had become a distraction for most players and they just lost the will and spirit to compete like they used to.

The team’s media manager, Pervez Mir, was much harsher. In a press conference after the tournament, he claimed that many team members used to go out and try to convert West Indian civilians instead of coming to the ground to practice.

‘Is this what they are paid to do?’ He asked. He also added that Woolmer had confided in him that he just couldn’t sit down with the players and strategise because they were always going off to either pray or preach.

http://beta.dawn.com/news/1018005/r...ket-controversies/?commentPage=1&storyPage=25

Very informative article about how Saeed Ahmed , a party animal turned tablighi started it all .

How would you feel not being included in team activities on ground ? I bet Akhtar and Kaneria felt left out , religion should not have been displayed publicly like that .
 
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What is the difference between publicizing their religion and a publicity stunt, please explain?
Publicising their religion should be something personal, not necessarily private, but done on ones own time. A publicity stunt, in this particular case, is using your workplace (the cricketfield) and/or worktime (being on tour as the Pakistan national team is worktime) and/or whilst representing your employers (The PCB) as a platform for displaying your religious beliefs in a manner designed to cultivate favour with a particular segment of the public and/or a religious or political party, and not simply to perform your religious prayers and rituals.

Tell me this: Inzi and co were always thanking Allah for the win when being interviewed after matches, meaning that it was Allah that allowed them to win for being good muslims. Did they ever explain, when they lost, why then Allah made them lose? After all, if they won due to Allah, then surely they also lost due to Allah, and therefore should reject any Man-of-Match awards as well not dropping players who consistently made low scores or took no wickets. After all, it was Allah that made them lose, and therefore not their fault.
 
I don't think anyone can disagree with Khan here, i don't think Inzi selected players purely on the basis of religious beliefs but there was surely a lot of TJ culture that impacted the team. Younis Khan is a GREAT example, he is a professional, keeps himself fit, great team player, friendly attitude and is still religious (keeps it private as he should). We forget that main job of players is playing cricket and that should be their priority, they can still practice religion (doesn't Hashim Amla do that well?). Yousuf himself admitted at times that he missed series because he wanted to concentrate on religious practices.

Problem is NOT being religious but influence of "Tableeghi Jamaat". Their main argument is this world is NOTHING and we must not indulge in worldly things and that includes playing sports which according to them is waste of time.
 
Publicising their religion should be something personal, not necessarily private, but done on ones own time. A publicity stunt, in this particular case, is using your workplace (the cricketfield) and/or worktime (being on tour as the Pakistan national team is worktime) and/or whilst representing your employers (The PCB) as a platform for displaying your religious beliefs in a manner designed to cultivate favour with a particular segment of the public and/or a religious or political party, and not simply to perform your religious prayers and rituals.

Tell me this: Inzi and co were always thanking Allah for the win when being interviewed after matches, meaning that it was Allah that allowed them to win for being good muslims. Did they ever explain, when they lost, why then Allah made them lose? After all, if they won due to Allah, then surely they also lost due to Allah, and therefore should reject any Man-of-Match awards as well not dropping players who consistently made low scores or took no wickets. After all, it was Allah that made them lose, and therefore not their fault.

Inzi would always say "first of all thanks to almighty Allah" whether the team had one or loss so LOL at your point of him only saying it in wins. He would say it irrespective of the result which indicates that he believes that everything is the will of God, which of course it is. And in the case of a win is it not a natural reaction to thank God? Everything we have is thanks to God. I see no problem with him saying that. Indian players such as MSD have been herd saying thanks to God in post match interviews as well.

Kind of petty and sad on your part that you would resent it to this day.
 
According to Khan, Anwar, who had begun to sport a long beard, walked up to the front of the bus and announced that ‘angels will descend and help Pakistan win the Cup.’ Everybody applauded.

A few weeks later when the Pakistan team had lost most of its games and was eventually eliminated from the tournament, Khan jokingly asked Anwar what had happened to the angels that he said would descend and help Pakistan win.

Without smiling back, Anwar sombrely replied that the angels hadn’t appeared because they (the players) were not good Muslims (!)

Khan then explains in detail why and how Inzamam, (despite the angels failing to stoop down), retained the tactic of using religion as a strategic tool to instill unity in the squad when he was made captain.

Haha, these guys fall for anything! :91:
 
Asim Kamal was best of the lot , had the staying power on the crease.

Staying power on the crease? Because Misbah doesn't right?

At the end of the day, Hasan Raza and Misbah were outperforming him and were being overlooked. It's not a criticism of Asim Kamal. He is very overrated on Pakpassion.
 
Inzi would always say "first of all thanks to almighty Allah" whether the team had one or loss so LOL at your point of him only saying it in wins. He would say it irrespective of the result which indicates that he believes that everything is the will of God, which of course it is. And in the case of a win is it not a natural reaction to thank God? Everything we have is thanks to God. I see no problem with him saying that.
Sure. But then did they try and explain why Allah made them lose one day and allowed them to win on another day, considering that they prayed so much on both occasions asking for a win?
Indian players such as MSD have been herd saying thanks to God in post match interviews as well.
So now you're going to use Indian cricketers and Hinduism/ Sikhism to explain/justify the actions/religious convictions of muslim cricketers? :facepalm:

Kind of petty and sad on your part that you would resent it to this day.
Resent it? No, I did'nt resent it, I was embarassed by it, seeing how they were making a laughing stock of themselves, the Pakistan cricket team, and more importantly, of Islam itself.
 
MSD before the CT final said "God is not coming here to help us winning this game"
wonder any Pakistani player can say that? if said, then what would be the consequences back in Pakistan?

They would've been butchered on this forum alone.
 
Publicising their religion should be something personal, not necessarily private, but done on ones own time. A publicity stunt, in this particular case, is using your workplace (the cricketfield) and/or worktime (being on tour as the Pakistan national team is worktime) and/or whilst representing your employers (The PCB) as a platform for displaying your religious beliefs in a manner designed to cultivate favour with a particular segment of the public and/or a religious or political party, and not simply to perform your religious prayers and rituals.

You're confused. A publicity stunt is just an act or event to attract the public's attention. It has nothing to do with being in or out of work. Their religion is their way of life , it is practised everywhere they go, nothing to do with being a stunt but can be argued their are publicizing their religion to inspire others.

Tell me this: Inzi and co were always thanking Allah for the win when being interviewed after matches, meaning that it was Allah that allowed them to win for being good muslims. Did they ever explain, when they lost, why then Allah made them lose? After all, if they won due to Allah, then surely they also lost due to Allah, and therefore should reject any Man-of-Match awards as well not dropping players who consistently made low scores or took no wickets. After all, it was Allah that made them lose, and therefore not their fault.

LOL. I suggest you learn the basics of Islam. Muslims don't say All praise to Allah when something negative happens but do accept within themselves it's the will of God.
 
Is it okay for all the muslim IT professionals to write blogs on religion and work on religious activities while they are in office ?

Using office laptop, office internet connection and office work hours?
 
You're confused. A publicity stunt is just an act or event to attract the public's attention. It has nothing to do with being in or out of work. Their religion is their way of life , it is practised everywhere they go, nothing to do with being a stunt but can be argued their are publicizing their religion to inspire others.



LOL. I suggest you learn the basics of Islam. Muslims don't say All praise to Allah when something negative happens but do accept within themselves it's the will of God.
To me religion is a private, personal matter. I want to follow religion the way it suits me best, the way I'm most comfortable doing so. I guess that's why I stay clear of those who try and shove religion down your throat and for whom outward, almost showbiz type, show of religion is a be all and end all of everything. And why I've blocked all religious channels, of any flavour, on my Skybox. :))
 
Is it okay for all the muslim IT professionals to write blogs on religion and work on religious activities while they are in office ?

Using office laptop, office internet connection and office work hours?
Only if these 'IT Professionals' are being totally unprofessional. Besides, it shows some serious flaws in a companies IT structures and policies if staff can sit around doing their own thing on the internet via office laptops and desktops which are linked to the companies in-house systems containing sensitive and confidential data.
 
Only if these 'IT Professionals' are being totally unprofessional. Besides, it shows some serious flaws in a companies IT structures and policies if staff can sit around doing their own thing on the internet via office laptops and desktops which are linked to the companies in-house systems containing sensitive and confidential data.
So in that regard you were right.

Inzi shouldn't use captaincy, his work area (like team room), work time to do religious activities during work time.
 
^^ Ahem.. Good going with the deduction work.


The day i saw all the pakistani players for the joint namaaz session.. i did felt that a big blow has been dealt. Cuz the team stands for your nation, and in a way reflects the society's flavor as well. Even if the pakistani awaam wasnt that deep into being religious, or let's say whoever was spared from that wave.. seeing these images in the newspaper or the television does gets to the vulnerable ones.
 
I don't think anyone can disagree with Khan here, i don't think Inzi selected players purely on the basis of religious beliefs but there was surely a lot of TJ culture that impacted the team. Younis Khan is a GREAT example, he is a professional, keeps himself fit, great team player, friendly attitude and is still religious (keeps it private as he should). We forget that main job of players is playing cricket and that should be their priority, they can still practice religion (doesn't Hashim Amla do that well?). Yousuf himself admitted at times that he missed series because he wanted to concentrate on religious practices.

Problem is NOT being religious but influence of "Tableeghi Jamaat". Their main argument is this world is NOTHING and we must not indulge in worldly things and that includes playing sports which according to them is waste of time.

This is exactly the problem, the Tableegh in reality frown upon cricket as a waste of time and that's why I think it's perfectly reasonable to throw any religious activists out of the team, and obviously the Tableegh influence should be kept outside the dressing room. Nothing wrong with having a religious figure in the camp for advice, but they should certainly not be dictating agendas.
 
So in that regard you were right.

Inzi shouldn't use captaincy, his work area (like team room), work time to do religious activities during work time.
Nailed it on the head.
 
Just goes to show just how big a load of crap religion is. It's baffling that in this day and age, there are still people around(who outnumber normal people no less) who bow before imaginary fairy tale characters and take commandments from some of the most ridiculous ancient texts which, if made into movies, would make the likes of Cannibal Holocaust and Apocalypto seem like 'The Little Mermaid'.

extreme view from non-religious fanatics are as dangerous and harmful to any society as the view of religious fanatics.
 
Pretty damning on Saeed Anwar and Inzamam-ul-Haq, who to be fair have been two of three best Pakistani batsmen in their history. The other is of course, Javed Miandad.
 
So in that regard you were right.

Inzi shouldn't use captaincy, his work area (like team room), work time to do religious activities during work time.

That is why I am against Inzi being anywhere near the team.
 
Nothing wrong with having a religious figure in the camp for advice, but they should certainly not be dictating agendas.

Now why would you let any religious figure come near a sports camp?
Its a 100% given thing that any religious figure coming for any sermons will def relate the sport with religious innuendos and that ll be the spark you need to lit the fuse.
 
Now why would you let any religious figure come near a sports camp?
Its a 100% given thing that any religious figure coming for any sermons will def relate the sport with religious innuendos and that ll be the spark you need to lit the fuse.

I was thinking more along the lines of how sports teams sometimes have chaplains like in football where a player can go with problems. Certainly not Tableegh or any other sermonisers.
 
This is a well documented trend and while I do believe that religion played a hand in the team's policy for selection and general attitude towards the game, imo, it was only to a certain extent.

For instance, I bet if you ask anyone before showing them the above article why Misbah was not a part of the middle order from early 2000's as a regular, the answer from most people will be simply that "the M/O of Younus, Yousuf and Inzimam was too strong". And that is not really something you can argue against, statistically, they were better than the Indian MO of that time.

Another contradiction within the article is that while Misbah was kept out of the team for his education, Younus whom Inzimam was weary of was kept in the team, that doesn't make any sense.

I also have a hard time believing someone like Waqar was endorsing TJ practices so strongly.

Also, note (from cricinfo's review) that the book NFP refers to has some glaring factual inaccuracies which cast a shadow over the credibility of Khan, (both as a chairman and a writer) E.g. According to Shaharyar's book, Pakistan apparently won the world cup in '96, not '92 as many of us have come to believe.

Finally, note that NFP thrives on this kind of thrash, you only need to look at his previous articles and the rebukes to know the man has his own motives laced out in a similar manner to which he accuses Inzi & co. of doing. Always read this man's writing with a pinch of salt.

It's also worth remembering, Inzimam's captaincy brought Pakistan it's most success post-Imran, and yes, I don't/didn't agree with his approach to the game at times but I do not/did not doubt the man's sincerity to Pakistan cricket.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of how sports teams sometimes have chaplains like in football where a player can go with problems. Certainly not Tableegh or any other sermonisers.


That is thoughtful, and very benign indeed.
But in my humble opinion, pak's team member should go to whichever place they deem fit for the purgation rather than anybody coming near the team.

Given the volatile nature of the topic and ever present possibility of slipping into the overly religious ways in the country, it should be seen that nobody approaches the players when they are all gathered in one place.
 
my earlier post got deleted as usual. But I will reiterate my point, why are Indians obsessed with the religiousity of the paksitan team? or is it just the secularists among us who fear anything to dow ith islam. I mean shout Islam and they start bleating like donkeys about equality etc etc!

Islam brought unity to a disunited team and took us to second in the world. shoaib akhter was an unfit, party goer who had no discipline. His problems were there way before inzi tried to bring him in line. He also had a tendency to let the team down because he couldnt stay fit.

as a long time member on this forum i will never forget 2007 when the secularists on both sides of the border proceeded to use the cricket team to further their anti religion agenda and help destroy our team. we have still not recovered!

The indians will never accept anything good in pakistan be it cricket or something else. Hence their bakwaas during 2007 where they literally attempted to accuse inzi of murder because he was religious.

my message, we are Musllims, get over it!and for thsoe who come on here to spew venom about Islam please do us a favour and a) leave Islam, b) if your Indian, mind your own damned business.

I think the large years of prolonged Muslim rule in India have left deep scars that manifest in strange ways.
 
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my earlier post got deleted as usual. But I will reiterate my point, why are Indians obsessed with the religiousity of the paksitan team? or is it just the secularists among us who fear anything to dow ith islam. I mean shout Islam and they start bleating like donkeys about equality etc etc!

Islam brought unity to a disunited team and took us to second in the world. shoaib akhter was an unfit, party goer who had no discipline. His problems were there way before inzi tried to bring him in line. He also had a tendency to let the team down because he couldnt stay fit.

as a long time member on this forum i will never forget 2007 when the secularists on both sides of the border proceeded to use the cricket team to further their anti religion agenda and help destroy our team. we have still not recovered!

The indians will never accept anything good in pakistan be it cricket or something else. Hence their bakwaas during 2007 where they literally attempted to accuse inzi of murder because he was religious.

my message, we are Musllims, get over it!and for thsoe who come on here to spew venom about Islam please do us a favour and a) leave Islam, b) if your Indian, mind your own damned business.

I think the large years of prolonged Muslim rule in India have left deep scars that manifest in strange ways.

and i think this post might get deleted too unfortunately and extremely well said specially the last 2 paragraphs
 
my earlier post got deleted as usual. But I will reiterate my point, why are Indians obsessed with the religiousity of the paksitan team? or is it just the secularists among us who fear anything to dow ith islam. I mean shout Islam and they start bleating like donkeys about equality etc etc!

Islam brought unity to a disunited team and took us to second in the world. shoaib akhter was an unfit, party goer who had no discipline. His problems were there way before inzi tried to bring him in line. He also had a tendency to let the team down because he couldnt stay fit.

as a long time member on this forum i will never forget 2007 when the secularists on both sides of the border proceeded to use the cricket team to further their anti religion agenda and help destroy our team. we have still not recovered!

The indians will never accept anything good in pakistan be it cricket or something else. Hence their bakwaas during 2007 where they literally attempted to accuse inzi of murder because he was religious.

my message, we are Musllims, get over it!and for thsoe who come on here to spew venom about Islam please do us a favour and a) leave Islam, b) if your Indian, mind your own damned business.

I think the large years of prolonged Muslim rule in India have left deep scars that manifest in strange ways.

I don't really see what this has got to do with India, my view is that a player should be picked on merit and what he brings to the team as a player whatever his beliefs. When you have organisations like the Tableegh getting involved in team affairs I would be worried that some players who didn't fit in with the religious crowd would be ostracised. The only organisations present among the Pakistan team party should be professional cricket ones.
 
Do u guys remember what Dhoni said after winning champions trophy? Dhoni : " Most importantly, don't look up there, god is not coming to save you. You are the number one team, lets play like one".
Of course, God has better things to do in the world than helping you win a damn cricket match. lol
 
my earlier post got deleted as usual. But I will reiterate my point, why are Indians obsessed with the religiousity of the paksitan team? or is it just the secularists among us who fear anything to dow ith islam. I mean shout Islam and they start bleating like donkeys about equality etc etc!

Islam brought unity to a disunited team and took us to second in the world. shoaib akhter was an unfit, party goer who had no discipline. His problems were there way before inzi tried to bring him in line. He also had a tendency to let the team down because he couldnt stay fit.

as a long time member on this forum i will never forget 2007 when the secularists on both sides of the border proceeded to use the cricket team to further their anti religion agenda and help destroy our team. we have still not recovered!

The indians will never accept anything good in pakistan be it cricket or something else. Hence their bakwaas during 2007 where they literally attempted to accuse inzi of murder because he was religious.

my message, we are Musllims, get over it!and for thsoe who come on here to spew venom about Islam please do us a favour and a) leave Islam, b) if your Indian, mind your own damned business.

I think the large years of prolonged Muslim rule in India have left deep scars that manifest in strange ways.

There is a point along the lines of Indians being 'ultra secularist'/anti religion in their view points. The state brings them up to think that way. Tbh its that, trying to remove religion in a society which has had religion deeply ingrained in their culture since inception, which gives the Indians their 'strange' stance with God.

But you cover that with so much venom, hatred and a dollop of conspiracy theory, that it gets lost in that. Surprised you didnt get your sources in to cover the 'true inside story' of how great a thing TJ influence in the team was. Probably forgot to add that in the rant.
 
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my earlier post got deleted as usual. But I will reiterate my point, why are Indians obsessed with the religiousity of the paksitan team? or is it just the secularists among us who fear anything to dow ith islam. I mean shout Islam and they start bleating like donkeys about equality etc etc!

Islam brought unity to a disunited team and took us to second in the world. shoaib akhter was an unfit, party goer who had no discipline. His problems were there way before inzi tried to bring him in line. He also had a tendency to let the team down because he couldnt stay fit.

as a long time member on this forum i will never forget 2007 when the secularists on both sides of the border proceeded to use the cricket team to further their anti religion agenda and help destroy our team. we have still not recovered!

The indians will never accept anything good in pakistan be it cricket or something else. Hence their bakwaas during 2007 where they literally attempted to accuse inzi of murder because he was religious.

my message, we are Musllims, get over it!and for thsoe who come on here to spew venom about Islam please do us a favour and a) leave Islam, b) if your Indian, mind your own damned business.

I think the large years of prolonged Muslim rule in India have left deep scars that manifest in strange ways.

Book by former PCB chairman. Article by Pakistani Journalist. Pakistani Newspaper. And you are worried about Indian obsession with religiosity in Pakistan. I would say it reflects more on your obsession with what Indians think than dealing with the issue under consideration.

If you go through the thread, you will get a good sense of what even Pak. posters think of this. And they are no lesser Muslims than you are. Issue is not about religion. By going back to the anti India argument on this matter you are reflecting your own insecurities.
 
my earlier post got deleted as usual. But I will reiterate my point, why are Indians obsessed with the religiousity of the paksitan team? or is it just the secularists among us who fear anything to dow ith islam. I mean shout Islam and they start bleating like donkeys about equality etc etc!

Islam brought unity to a disunited team and took us to second in the world. shoaib akhter was an unfit, party goer who had no discipline. His problems were there way before inzi tried to bring him in line. He also had a tendency to let the team down because he couldnt stay fit.

as a long time member on this forum i will never forget 2007 when the secularists on both sides of the border proceeded to use the cricket team to further their anti religion agenda and help destroy our team. we have still not recovered!

The indians will never accept anything good in pakistan be it cricket or something else. Hence their bakwaas during 2007 where they literally attempted to accuse inzi of murder because he was religious.

my message, we are Musllims, get over it!and for thsoe who come on here to spew venom about Islam please do us a favour and a) leave Islam, b) if your Indian, mind your own damned business.

I think the large years of prolonged Muslim rule in India have left deep scars that manifest in strange ways.

Khan saab, I have never heard more fractions and back biting to get captaincy and groupism in any other country than Pakistan Cricket team in last 10 years.

Yousuf, Malik, Afridi have done all possible ways to get captaincy even if that means under performing.

I don't know where Islam went then. Do they forget it when trying to be the captain ?

United doesn't mean just praying together during match.

Sorry, no offense to Islam, but I really can't see what Islam has contributed to Pakistan team positively that you want me to see.
 
Book by former PCB chairman. Article by Pakistani Journalist. Pakistani Newspaper. And you are worried about Indian obsession with religiosity in Pakistan. I would say it reflects more on your obsession with what Indians think than dealing with the issue under consideration.

If you go through the thread, you will get a good sense of what even Pak. posters think of this. And they are no lesser Muslims than you are. Issue is not about religion. By going back to the anti India argument on this matter you are reflecting your own insecurities.

but who posted this on here? we always have self criticism amongst the secular media in paksitan especially of the religiousity in the pakistan team, but why didnt any pakistani post it here? it says alot that an indian posted it.

Khan saab, I have never heard more fractions and back biting to get captaincy and groupism in any other country than Pakistan Cricket team in last 10 years.

Yousuf, Malik, Afridi have done all possible ways to get captaincy even if that means under performing.

I don't know where Islam went then. Do they forget it when trying to be the captain ?

United doesn't mean just praying together during match.

Sorry, no offense to Islam, but I really can't see what Islam has contributed to Pakistan team positively that you want me to see.

Garuda, the faction period restarted in 2007 after the wordl cup and the sacking of inzi, appointment of yk/malik as captains. There were clear statements from ashraf and musharref that they wanted a secualr pakistan captain who liked "indian movies" and other things.

well they got what they wanted, spotfixing, corruption, infighting, you name it.

Until Inzi and woolmer were there, they had things setup nicely. As soon as we got interference from rabid secular duffers , everything was destroyed. Moyo was clearly discriminated against, so was razaaq, so was afridi, and tons of others percieved to be too religious. The ICL accepted our players but our own board wanted to be holier than the pope!

You can see the ultimate results.

Misbah has brought things around but the team that inzi built up had alot going for it.

as for aussie tour, lol the biggest fixed tour in the history of spotfixing and match fixing! first yk was setup by the internal malik mafia, then moyo was disposed of. They got afridi but even he was eventually disposed of. Who did we get? cuptaan butt, just read majeeds testimonies. They set things up to get their men in place!

as for misbah well he was part of the malik mafia too. I dont know the extent to which he knew about their harkatain but he was part of that group.
 
^^ That is a poor excuse.

Are you saying Inzi would have stayed always with the team.

If the team followed Islam through out Inzi's period, how come they forgot it as soon as he left. The whole team was not new, they were all the same guys who were all so Islamic. Were they following it forcibly ?

Are you saying Afridi, moyo were proper muslims till Inzi was there and as soon as he left they threw Islam out and started into their back biting game ?
 
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my earlier post got deleted as usual. But I will reiterate my point, why are Indians obsessed with the religiousity of the paksitan team? or is it just the secularists among us who fear anything to dow ith islam. I mean shout Islam and they start bleating like donkeys about equality etc etc!

Islam brought unity to a disunited team and took us to second in the world. shoaib akhter was an unfit, party goer who had no discipline. His problems were there way before inzi tried to bring him in line. He also had a tendency to let the team down because he couldnt stay fit.

as a long time member on this forum i will never forget 2007 when the secularists on both sides of the border proceeded to use the cricket team to further their anti religion agenda and help destroy our team. we have still not recovered!

The indians will never accept anything good in pakistan be it cricket or something else. Hence their bakwaas during 2007 where they literally attempted to accuse inzi of murder because he was religious.

my message, we are Musllims, get over it!and for thsoe who come on here to spew venom about Islam please do us a favour and a) leave Islam, b) if your Indian, mind your own damned business.

I think the large years of prolonged Muslim rule in India have left deep scars that manifest in strange ways.

Ah, as usual a generic, ad hominem attack on Indians in general and everyone and everything else, beside the point. Indians or otherwise, people who have posted here at least replied to the topic and made some effort to put their points across. Two points

Generalizing people, religion, castes, nations etc are the seeds of all discrimination. That is why all Hindus are like this, all blacks are like this, you Indians etc are the worst kind of arguments. Have the courtesy to address the posters and their points directly

Secondly, sometimes, your worst enemies can identify more things about you than friends can. Of course, that's an extreme case, but you will find that, the best discussion happens when people from different places get together. Of course, the Indians will have a completely different world view because their culture where they grew up in was different. That does not harm the discussionthough, in fact topics with polar opposite views are often the best ones

Not everyone on the internet come with their own agenda. They do come with prejudices and biases of course, but even then, very few of them will be extreme. Why would you want to limit the variety in a discussion just because you disagree with a view-point?
 
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but who posted this on here? we always have self criticism amongst the secular media in paksitan especially of the religiousity in the pakistan team, but why didnt any pakistani post it here? it says alot that an indian posted it.

I also posted many threads on Imran Khan. I have posted threads on my support to PTI. I have also posted on condemnation of Israeli action against Palestinians. So, would you consider this also an Indian obsession. I read the article. It was pertaining to Pak. cricket, hence I posted it. It could have been anybody else who would have done it. How does it matter ?
 
I don't really see what this has got to do with India, my view is that a player should be picked on merit and what he brings to the team as a player whatever his beliefs. When you have organisations like the Tableegh getting involved in team affairs I would be worried that some players who didn't fit in with the religious crowd would be ostracised. The only organisations present among the Pakistan team party should be professional cricket ones.
It's bad enough mixing sport and politics, but when that becomes mixing sport, politics and religion, then the team loses all credibility in terms of being picked on merit. But in this case, it was even worse, ie a particular religious/political party with its own views on Islam and its own political agenda.

As for the team starting to perform better, imagine how much even better the performances may have been if the players were picked merit and not how obedient they were towards an organisation such as Tableegh?
 
It's bad enough mixing sport and politics, but when that becomes mixing sport, politics and religion, then the team loses all credibility in terms of being picked on merit. But in this case, it was even worse, ie a particular religious/political party with its own views on Islam and its own political agenda.

As for the team starting to perform better, imagine how much even better the performances may have been if the players were picked merit and not how obedient they were towards an organisation such as Tableegh?

In my view once a player becomes overtly religious, it tends to dilute his enthusiasm for the game as he starts putting his energy into doing dawa or fitting in with organisations like the Tableegh, which we saw signs of with both Saqlain and Saeed Anwar. Otherwise why did the Tableegh suddenly start appearing in Pakistan dressing rooms?

Cricket should be about the cricket only at the international level. Those players who are in it 100% for the love of the game need to be allowed to play it without interference from any other group.
 
^^ That is a poor excuse.

Are you saying Inzi would have stayed always with the team.

If the team followed Islam through out Inzi's period, how come they forgot it as soon as he left. The whole team was not new, they were all the same guys who were all so Islamic. Were they following it forcibly ?

Are you saying Afridi, moyo were proper muslims till Inzi was there and as soon as he left they threw Islam out and started into their back biting game ?

your missing the point. The point is Inzi had a methodology and they used it to great affect. There were problems but most of these were dealt with in house and in general the team was united and played pretty well during that period.

My point is this, so what if they used Islam to do this. It was a good methodology especially in a conservative society like ours. It helped develop togetherness and a passion to play for each other. I'm not saying they became sahabis or awliya but it helped with unity. As soon as that was removed the unity fell apart.

Now my issue is this: since 2007 periodically India posters post threads like the above. WHy? what is it your business when islam comes to the fore in the pakistan team? your whole media started jumping around like monkeys, "oh look its inzi the terrorist murderer dari wala" ..please.. you can fool some people but I think most of us can see through this fake charade!

My suggestion is very simple , mind your own busines when it comes to the religiousity of the pakistan team, not everyone is enamoured with your so called secular bakwaas.

It seems Indians just cant accept any sort of Pakistani success. Just look at this forum. Rife with some very unpleasant pakistan haters!
 
When people like tgk post their insecurities like this openly, one cannot help but relate such people with the characters of the movies based on partition.. the extremists who stir the trouble with their extremely skewed thinking, and browbeat the moderate and neutral thinkers
 
Tgk is not an extremist. He is a nice jolly person. All he wants is people to mind their own business. But i guess it is too much to ask for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Ah, as usual a generic, ad hominem attack on Indians in general and everyone and everything else, beside the point. Indians or otherwise, people who have posted here at least replied to the topic and made some effort to put their points across. Two points

Generalizing people, religion, castes, nations etc are the seeds of all discrimination. That is why all Hindus are like this, all blacks are like this, you Indians etc are the worst kind of arguments. Have the courtesy to address the posters and their points directly

spare me your holier than thou speech. We know why many of you are on this forum. And its not for any lovely discussions since we've seen your lovely discussions and where they eventually end up. Dont speak to me about courtesy when half your posters on here are shameless trolls, who's sole purpose is to simply flame and portray Pakistan as some kind of Islamist terror state. And you are not immune in this.

Secondly, sometimes, your worst enemies can identify more things about you than friends can. Of course, that's an extreme case, but you will find that, the best discussion happens when people from different places get together. Of course, the Indians will have a completely different world view because their culture where they grew up in was different. That does not harm the discussionthough, in fact topics with polar opposite views are often the best ones


I'm all for "discussions" but the aforementioned topic has been done to death and the resulting discussions are unproductive and smack of an agenda. It's as if some people post the above just so they can find some like minded thinkers and then say oh look they think like us while its the otehr lot who are crazy or extreme etc. Its as if they get some kind of self satisfaction from it all. We know what our faults are, our people ar ethe ebst at dragging those out (e.g. the article is by a pakistani), in general ones worst enemies desire is not to "help you out" but to further ensure the enemies misfortune. But then there does seem to be this continuous streak in the indian internet community of having this weird we criticising you for you own good nonsense bakwaas" Save it.


Not everyone on the internet come with their own agenda. They do come with prejudices and biases of course, but even then, very few of them will be extreme. Why would you want to limit the variety in a discussion just because you disagree with a view-point?

Meray bhai, every indian interneter ive encountered and unfortuantley its mostly at the end of a news story about pakistan has been compeltley anti muslim, anti pakistan. I havent come across a single one who has anything good to say about Pakistan or pakistani's. You only behave here because youll be banned and wont be able to gush over Dhoni's latest hairstyle, or rub it in to some of us pak fans when we get batterd by some lulloo. Its a constant battle to continue to try and give pakistans point of view on twitter, the guardian, etc etc!

a discussion is only valuable when both sides are willing to acknowledge their own short comings. I havent come across an Indian who is willing to do that yet. e.g. acknowledging war crimes in kashmir, support for terrorism in pakistan, and so forth.
 
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