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Religion in Pakistan Cricket Team

Tgk is not an extremist. He is a nice jolly person. All he wants is people to mind their own business. But i guess it is too much to ask for.

He's insecure to an extreme extent, to the point where he is asking for members on an online forum to filter out their posts to suit his trademark style of not provoking his inferiority complex.
 
a discussion is only valuable when both sides are willing to acknowledge their own short comings. I havent come across an Indian who is willing to do that yet. e.g. acknowledging war crimes in kashmir, support for terrorism in pakistan, and so forth.

This is wrong tgk. I am one of the nicest indians you will ever meet. And if i criticize something in pakistan it is for your own good.


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TGK on a roll. The fact of the matter is, whatever Inzi's methods were they were a whole deal better than what we've seen in the past 5/6 years. We were on our way up under Inzi - even reaching no. 2 in the world rankings but after that everything has gone pear shaped and tbh anyone would prefer that team of 05/06 to the bunch of defensive cowards we've seen since then. If religion played a big part in the unity of the side back then who are we to complain? Atleast the team waa performing…but no, there are always those few who like to take cheap shots at the Tableeghi Jamaat and even blame it for our demise where in reality our demise is due to matters furthrst away from religion, such as corruption and sheer unprofessionalism.
 
If one can ignore the drivel by TG on this thread , can any one actually justify religion as a criteria for selection in national team ?
 
Keep religion at home, Islam should have no business in uniting a team. Lets do what other teams are doing correctly to keep the team united without any influence of religion.

If Aussies and English teams can remain united and disciplined without interference of religion then why is Islam needed to unite Pakistan team ?
 
Keep religion at home, Islam should have no business in uniting a team. Lets do what other teams are doing correctly to keep the team united without any influence of religion.

If Aussies and English teams can remain united and disciplined without interference of religion then why is Islam needed to unite Pakistan team ?

Boom, top teams have good work ethics , good coaches ,practice & train regularly with most modern methods & not emphasize on team prayers as you rightly hinted .
 
your missing the point. The point is Inzi had a methodology and they used it to great affect. There were problems but most of these were dealt with in house and in general the team was united and played pretty well during that period.

My point is this, so what if they used Islam to do this. It was a good methodology especially in a conservative society like ours. It helped develop togetherness and a passion to play for each other. I'm not saying they became sahabis or awliya but it helped with unity. As soon as that was removed the unity fell apart.

Now my issue is this: since 2007 periodically India posters post threads like the above. WHy? what is it your business when islam comes to the fore in the pakistan team? your whole media started jumping around like monkeys, "oh look its inzi the terrorist murderer dari wala" ..please.. you can fool some people but I think most of us can see through this fake charade!

My suggestion is very simple , mind your own busines when it comes to the religiousity of the pakistan team, not everyone is enamoured with your so called secular bakwaas.

It seems Indians just cant accept any sort of Pakistani success. Just look at this forum. Rife with some very unpleasant pakistan haters!
TGK, first of all, it shouldn't matter who posted it as you can not really stop people from asking questions. Pakistanis also ask questions on things that doesn't have any link with Pakistan. So that is not an issue.

Secondly, as you said Inzi had a method which helped. So it's inzi's leadership which had something and nothing to do with Islam teaching. Cuz if it was teaching then it should have lasted after Inzi had gone.

Hope you get my point.
 
TGK, first of all, it shouldn't matter who posted it as you can not really stop people from asking questions. Pakistanis also ask questions on things that doesn't have any link with Pakistan. So that is not an issue.

This. They even worry about random events in Morocco or Burma just because of a vague religious connection, notwithstanding the fact that the populace of such territories have never given a second thought about Pakistan.

Not condemning it, just saying that it works both ways and is universal in that regard.
 
This. They even worry about random events in Morocco or Burma just because of a vague religious connection, notwithstanding the fact that the populace of such territories have never given a second thought about Pakistan.

Not condemning it, just saying that it works both ways and is universal in that regard.

its not a vague religous connection. You have no idea what your talking about with regards to the above hence if i were you I would just not bother.

@Garuda, I undertsand and respect your point and have no problem with it now that you have articualted it better. My issue isnt whether Islam made them better or not, my issue is if the method worked why the problem? and your right it was inzi's method and it worked , soon as he left it went to pot. Not diagreeing.

my issue is the constant focus on this method. INMHO there was nothing wrong with it. and maybe one or two players really benefited too.

finally to those saying "oh well we dont need islam in cricket blah blah blah" well I'm sorry but alot of Muslims dont mind it in there (as long as its not shoved down throats). Other teams use other methods, Islam worked for us. and in some cases still does because it isnt a religion. For Muslims inmho nothing brings us together better than praying together in jamaat especially when you spend so much time together , thats just me.

and finally finally, im sorry to say but I dont understand why some Indians have a problem with this.
 
@Garuda, I undertsand and respect your point and have no problem with it now that you have articualted it better. My issue isnt whether Islam made them better or not, my issue is if the method worked why the problem? and your right it was inzi's method and it worked , soon as he left it went to pot. Not diagreeing.

Exactly and I do not see it as a bad thing if the leader used Islam to motivate the team.

But the fine line is it should be religion helping the game not the platform of the game helping religious activities.

Like we say in project management, a process should help delivering your work instead of you keep working to deliver a process. :)

The moment the religious activity becomes primary/big thing in the team instead of their game/skill, it will hamper the team performance.
 
^I think he's trying to impersonate Harbajhan, that way he could chuck and not get reported
 
Until 1992, I have never seen a Pak player use religious words or display religion related stuff on cricket field. They looked like party boys whom everyone want to be with.
Even in the 1998-99 Pak tour of India, Pak players did not have beards or did not display Islamic stuff on cricket field much.

All of the thanking Allah and religious stuff has become very visible after 2000. If it helped the players to concentrate on cricket better, there is nothing wrong in it.
 
Until 1992, I have never seen a Pak player use religious words or display religion related stuff on cricket field. They looked like party boys whom everyone want to be with.
Even in the 1998-99 Pak tour of India, Pak players did not have beards or did not display Islamic stuff on cricket field much.

All of the thanking Allah and religious stuff has become very visible after 2000. If it helped the players to concentrate on cricket better, there is nothing wrong in it.

Cricket used to be a game for the elite,new rich and upper-middle class people of Pakistan but last 25 years saw a shift to the lower-middle class,working class and rural population. So these men are more representative of the average Pakistanis mannerisms and worldview.
 
Yes, and they love to dye their beards with henna, following the footsteps of their mastermind Muhammad Ilyas Qadri. Looking forward to seeing Saeed bhai with a footlong red beard.

If he grows a foot-long red beard, I will be rooting for his comeback just to see him bowl with that. :13:
 
The knives are out for poor Inzi and he's only just got the job.

Inzi – at it again?

Countless sportsmen have been known to be religious. Many famous athletes take inspiration from their own belief in the divine to conjure athletic miracles. Any successful sportsperson would tell you that the foundation of all triumphs is belief – in one’s ability.

Similarly many world-beaters have been known to be superstitious. 14-time major winner Rafael Nadal, one of the greatest tennis players of all time, can’t concentrate on court unless his water bottles face a particular direction.

Even the WT20 champions West Indies, who rocked everyone with their ‘champions dance’ and exuberant celebrations, often mention God as their inspiration. Darren Sammy praised Jesus Christ during the after-match ceremony after winning the WT20. Even the ever controversial Chris Gayle talks about God frequently and even invoked a prayer for Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif who was undergoing heart surgery in London this week.

Hence, belief in the divine in itself has never been a hurdle for sportspersons and in many cases has been a source of inspiration. It is when religion supersedes professionalism, or overtakes training in importance, that it can hinder performances in any field of life – including sports.

Recently appointed Chief Selector Inzamam-ul-Haq was seen giving tips to the players who are attending the training camp at Gaddafi Stadium this week, in the build-up to the national team’s tour of England. While many of them received batting input from the Pakistani great, another highlight of the training session was Inzamam-ul-Haq leading the prayers with the cricketers behind him, including the current ODI and T20 captains Azhar Ali and Sarfraz Ahmed.

Again, there shouldn’t be any issues with players performing religious rituals alongside their cricket training. Except that in this particular case, there is an unwanted baggage that Pakistan cricket has spent a lot of time trying to offload.

Inzi’s affiliation with the Tableeghi Jamaat, and its influence over the Pakistan cricket team, have been well documented. It was the Tableeghi Jamaat’s influence that cut short Saeed Anwar’s career and virtually dictated Pakistani cricket between the years 2003 and 2007 when Inzamam was the captain.

It was under Inzamam’s captaincy that Jamaat prayers became unofficially mandatory. Those not under Inzamam’s mini-caliphate’s influence were sidelined or had to be as indispensible – Shoaib Akhtar, Younis Khan and Abdul Razzaq struggled to find a regular slot in the squad. While Misbah-ul-Haq never quite availed the chances given to him during his early years, many believe is lack of overt religiosity also kept him away from the national team.

But then again, one could argue that since Inzi was the captain he could influence the means to ensure team unity. Inzi chose overt religiosity, which often meant cutting training sessions short to accommodate prayers, dictating personal lifestyles of the players and creating Inzi’s persona as a caliph whose ‘orders’ can’t be refused. The team under Inzamam regressed in terms of fitness and fielding, at a time when both these facets were being worked on around the globe.

Its eventual ramifications notwithstanding, Inzi’s Islamisation during his captaincy can be overlooked as an individual leader’s failed attempt at unity and discipline (ironically), but his latest foray into the training camp and leading the team’s prayers can be a lot more dangerous.

The influence of Islamism over all aspects of the Pakistani society – at both the micro and macro levels – has meant that prayer leaders are often deemed synonymous with overall leadership. The job of the chief selector is to select the best possible squad for a series, not infiltrate their personal space by inserting his ideology.

The problem doesn’t lie with praying at all, of course. It’s the display of religiosity, which very few have been able to say no to. After all, even if Inzi wanted to lead prayers, it could’ve been done inside the mosque near Gaddafi Stadium or the dressing room.

Praying together, more than any manifestation of unity, is often an exhibition of a monolithic ideology that the entire squad has to conform to. And it wouldn’t be wrong to suggest that such conformity has mostly been harmful for Pakistan cricket.

Whether it’s Shoaib Malik apologising to ‘all Muslims around the world’ after losing the WT20 final against India in 2007, or Ahmed Shehzad harassing Tillakaratne Dilshan into (re)converting to Islam, organised religiosity has had a bad influence on many of our lot.

What differentiates the influence of the divine on most other teams and athletes, and the Pakistan cricket team, is the retention of the idea of personal belief in the former. Because a collective ideologically motivated squad takes on ‘the Other’ in the ‘battlefield’, while the one adhering to a personal belief, looks for inspiration from within to help the individual perform to the maximum.

Misbah-ul-Haq has spent around six years to create an ethos not defined by ideological adherence, or carrying religion on the sleeves, which has made the current Test team possibly the most disciplined Pakistani team in its history, and arguably the most successful as well. With Misbah probably calling it a day within the next year or so, Inzi’s ideological influence on Pakistan cricket would be dangerous, even more so as a selector than as captain.
- See more at: http://www.thefridaytimes.com/tft/inzi-at-it-again/#sthash.OgfIXkbo.dpuf
 
This Friday Times article is a hatchet job full of unsubstantiated assertions with no quotes or evidence to back it up. I have no love for the Tableeghi Jamaat but the idea Inzamam used religious tests to gauge player loyalty or for selection matters has been no more than the domain of rumour and speculation.

Those not under Inzamam’s mini-caliphate’s influence were sidelined or had to be as indispensible – Shoaib Akhtar, Younis Khan and Abdul Razzaq struggled to find a regular slot in the squad.
Totally untrue. Shoaib Akhtar was a regular under Inzamam and would've featured even more if his body didn't keep breaking down. Younis Khan was a mainstay of the Test and ODI team. Abdul Razzaq was not good enough in Tests but was a ODI mainstay.

While Misbah-ul-Haq never quite availed the chances given to him during his early years, many believe is lack of overt religiosity also kept him away from the national team.
Where would Misbah-ul-Haq play ? The middle order was locked up by Younis, Yousuf and Inzamam. In Tests, Inzy and Woolmer liked to play an all-rounder at 6 like many teams do, giving us a 5th bowling option. And if there was a religious conspiracy against Misbah, then why does Misbah name check Inzamam in his 2015 WC retirement press conference, thanking him for his guidance during his career ? Not the comments of a man whose career was ruined by a theocratic tyrant.

Hasan Raza is another name that gets mentioned yet he WAS given chances under Inzamam - most notably the 2005 Test series vs England where Steve Harmison could've bowled him out with an orange.

Inzi chose overt religiosity, which often meant cutting training sessions short to accommodate prayers, dictating personal lifestyles of the players and creating Inzi’s persona as a caliph whose ‘orders’ can’t be refused. The team under Inzamam regressed in terms of fitness and fielding, at a time when both these facets were being worked on around the globe.
How was our fielding before and after Inzamam ? I didn't realise we had 11 Jonty Rhodes until evil mullah Inzy destroyed them with too much namaaz.

Also how successful was Inzy in "dictating the personal lifestyle" of Shoaib Akhtar ? Why didn't Danish Kaneria succumb to the advances of this supposed fundamentalist ?

Inzi’s Islamisation during his captaincy can be overlooked as an individual leader’s failed attempt at unity and discipline
We went to second in the world rankings under Inzamam.

It’s the display of religiosity, which very few have been able to say no to. After all, even if Inzi wanted to lead prayers, it could’ve been done inside the mosque near Gaddafi Stadium or the dressing room.
Was the writer as outraged when Shafiq, Sarfraz and Azhar posted pics on social media of them performing Hajj last year ? Or Pakistani sportsmen taking selfies during Umrah ? Is that not a display of religious exhibitionism ? Why is this only an issue when Inzamam is involved ?

Inzamam led the team in prayers and none of the players had a problem. Big deal.

Inzi’s ideological influence on Pakistan cricket would be dangerous, even more so as a selector than as captain.
Can the writer name one player Inzamam lobbied for on the basis of religion ? Has he in this article provided any quotes or a shred of evidence to back these claims ? No.
 
Thats called Patka and used informally to tie up long hair. But its still his old style, now he wears bandana, i wonder if he still has long hair.

Harbhajan-Virat-PTI-580x395.jpg
 
I did see a picture of Inzi leading the team in prayers after a practice session. I love Inzi, but it is not his place as chief selector to be leading prayers. Prior to his appointment, I also did not see any pictures of the team doing prayers in the recent past.
 
From what I know, the religion and Tableeghi Jamaat thing is still in the team (or was in the team when Afridi was around).

When they toured New Zealand, a few team members and support were also on a tour of the mosques of New Zealand, giving speeches and sermons :facepalm: I can call out Afridi and Mushtaq Ahmed for sure, but I'm not sure how many others were involved.
 
It's best for our team to have an Islamic culture, but if the coach or physiotherapist is a non Muslim, then no need to force things down their throat, while still maintaining an Islamic culture within the team. Islam is not a private religion, it should influence all walks of our lives.
 
Thats called Patka and used informally to tie up long hair. But its still his old style, now he wears bandana, i wonder if he still has long hair.

View attachment 67398

I know what a patka is. In my regional language Pashto, it is called patkay, which is a lighter version of turban (pagri).

It's different to a bandana though.
 
I did see a picture of Inzi leading the team in prayers after a practice session. I love Inzi, but it is not his place as chief selector to be leading prayers. Prior to his appointment, I also did not see any pictures of the team doing prayers in the recent past.

Fairly sure I posted a pic of the pak team praying behind Inzi - the pic that you referred to in your post and I don't see it on the thread anymore.....perhaps some of the players had their moobs exposed......
 
Fairly sure I posted a pic of the pak team praying behind Inzi - the pic that you referred to in your post and I don't see it on the thread anymore.....perhaps some of the players had their moobs exposed......


Blame the Pakistani elite

They didn't like inzis religiousity but had to bring him back because they hate shehzad and akmal's brattiness much more
'Lesser of two evils '
 
Religion should be private. It should not define a team. I have no issues with players thanking GOD after accomplishing something like a 100 or a 5 fer. However, I was not a huge fan of the publicity and the pictures of players offering prayers when Inzi was the captain.
 
Don't see any problem with a selector praying with the players, except maybe offend those who dislike religion.
 
I'm not a huge fan of religion however when captain of the side Inzi did a great job at bringing some stability to the team and if religion was one of the tools he used to do this then so be it - Pakistan is a religious country after all so it's not as if he was introducing something alien to the players. Inzi captained for around 7 years - in the 7 or so years prior to him being captain Pakistan had a captaincy merry-go-round with Sohail, Akram, Waqar, Moin, Latif, and Anwar all having a go. In the 7 or so years after his captaincy you had the same with MoYo, Younis, Malik, Afridi and Salman Butt until Misbah came around.

Some captains bond with their players in the pub, others on a prayer mat - horses for courses.
 
Shaheen Shah Afridi speaking on TV int:

"I have come so closer to my religion [Islam]. I wish to keep long beard, I wish to spend as much time as I can in Masjid"

"Rizwan has played an important role in this development. He has developed a religious environment in the team and players are coming closer to Islam"
 
Shaheen Shah Afridi speaking on TV int:

"I have come so closer to my religion [Islam]. I wish to keep long beard, I wish to spend as much time as I can in Masjid"

"Rizwan has played an important role in this development. He has developed a religious environment in the team and players are coming closer to Islam"

Great stuffs.

All the best to Shaheen.
 
Congrats to Shaheen if he has found the peace we all yearn for. I just don't want the tablighi jamaat culture to reemerge from the Inzi days. Religion can never be the binding factor in any team moreover we must always welcome non Muslim's in to the side too. I don't want proselytizing within the side at the expense of neglecting the Cricket.
 
Rizwan is a top bloke, well respected across international cricket. He and Hayden had a deep convo about religion and Islam if I recall during the WC when Hayden was in the Pak camp. I don’t think they’ll be forcing anything down anyone’s throat.
 
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